Re: Abortion - A message for the pro-life movement

[NessiieeFishy]

It's amazing you know, that I would love to have many kids, I would never abort (as I love my children at ALL stages of development), and I would happily adopt if I was legally able to (it's the law that makes it difficult to adopt..too many hoops to go through and expense..it seems to be a profit-making business, not about child-welfare). I have had several friends with unwanted pregnancies, and each time I have begged them..dont abort..give the baby to me. And do they?

[303Erika]

Like you said, teenagers actually account for only a small number of abortions, and your postion is exactly why moral society is breaking down. The attitude that one doesn't need self control and can act however he or she pleases is the reason we have these issues. Parents ought to be teaching their teens and children that they aren't just anmals that must do what ever their bodily hormones want to do

[303Erika]

A one year old baby cannot survive on their own, but it is illegal to kill him or her.

[Headhunter004]

Oh yeah, nevermind that murder is a legal term meaning UNLAWFUL killing, as it CLEARLY STATES in EVERY dictionary there is! Straight from dictionary(dot)com...

mur-der

1. The *unlawful* killing of one human by another, *especially with premeditated malice*.

So that pretty much kills that whole "argument". I know all these "pro-life" morons are gonna say it's murder, anyway, but it's not, EVERY dictionary CLEARLY says otherwise, and so there's NOTHING they can say to mitigate this simple FACT.

[mattschol]

"you can't say there is a problem without offering a viable solution." um no, that's just not true.

[Sixkingdoms]

Typical Abortionist.

Before a person has taken their 1st breath of air on their own, you have already figured out what their whole life will be and where they won't fit.

Sounds alot like what Hitler thought of ALL Jews in the 1930's and 1940's.

Your type has come and gone many times. In the end you MAY only be a footnote in your family tree. Based on how you process your "thoughts" on this issue, I would say it is a family stump you are bred from.

[RationalLiberty]

abortion is not murder. You cant redefine this issue.

[CthulhuTheGreat]

This issue is far from defined. In my opinion there is strong secular argument against abortion - one that deserves consideration and civilized discussion. Just google "atheist against abortion".

[RationalLiberty]

my mind is already made up on abortion. Especially being male I think anything I say against it is a bit moot.

To me it depends on what scientists say and what scientific arguments can be made to clarify what happens in the womb.

[ThomasJS1]

And saying I've given straw man arguements?

I'll admit I've insulted ppl. But that's hardly a straw man arguement.

Wanting to teach actual sex ed in school including waiting till marriage. Actually works. Well it did before roeVwade.

Following is an example and explanation of why because abortion is legal that the population goes up.

[ThomasJS1]

Guy convinces girl to have sex without a condom. Because he knows that if he gets her pregnant he can coerce or force her into an abortion.

Girl does not let guy force her to abort. Thus the population increases.

If abortion was illegal the Guy would think more about protection, and even abstinance then he would otherwise.

Same goes for the girl.

That is called a logical arguement. From point A to B to C.

That's one way that It'd lower the population.

[ThomasJS1]

And BTW thanks for proving that the unborn are in fact humans for me.

Taken from the site you mentioned:

human embryo the first 8 weeks of human development following fertilization divided into 23 Carnegie stages and is the time of organogenesis. The following period defined as fetal development.

Note, how they do NOT say embryonic development but, actually say Human development.

So there it is, the medical definition from your source.

Thank you very much.

[ThomasJS1]

Why don't you answer my question of why overpopulation justifies murder???

You know why? Because you can't without making yourself look bad.

Unborn babies are humans. It's a fact. Therefor abortion is murder. There are even former abortionists who Admit to this fact.

What more proof do you need? For a baby to walk up to you and say he's a human?

[ThomasJS1]

I actually did you tard. Morality is part of it. Maybe better sex ed, that does'nt say abortions option, then ppl would be more likely to actually use protection or wait.  Do you even use logic? As it is abortion does NOT solve the overpopulation problem except in countries where it's forced.

What do you want us to be like China and force women to have abortions?? That would solve the population problem would'nt it.

[ThomasJS1]

No the debate exists because Politicians and some in the medical field are making money off of death.

That simple.

Come on now, do you really think it would still be legal if ppl were'nt making money off of it? It took a long time for ppl to believe blacks were human, because money was being made off of their suffering.

That's what it all boils down to.

And I don't see why a woman has the right to impose a death sentence on a child.

[ThomasJS1]

BTW Overpopulation does Not justify murder.

If it did then, why don't we just go killing ppl at random? Just shoot 1 out of every 4 ppl you see on the street. That would solve over-population would'nt it.

Wait have to make it an abortion comparison.

So we should only kill those that inconvience someone right? Or maybe the orphans, cause according to choicers it's just fine to kill unwanted children right?

[ThomasJS1]

I can label them idiots just like I can label the fools who thought the earth was flat, even with evidence to contrary idiots.

And Population.

Easy. Teach ppl self respect.  Teach ppl to stop being sluts and actually wait till marriage.

BTW take a look at the teen pregnancy rates before and after Roe V Wade.

Funny how over-population was'nt that much of a problem till post RoeVWade.

[ThomasJS1]

Well if Embryology defines a human embryo as a human being then your suggesting that at 60 days the embryo stops being human to resume being human at a later point.

Reference why certainly.

Go pick up any Human Embryology text book and read it yourself. Or check these sources.

Dianne N. Irving, M.A., Ph.D

William J. Larsen, Human Embryology

Ronan O'Rahilly and Fabiola Müller, Human Embryology & Teratology

That enough?

[ThomasJS1]

No. I call all choicers idiots because they ignore science and reasoning. And instead base their decisions on "feelings".

So by your "view" ppl don't have a right to stop rapists because the rapists has their own view.

Like I said straw man arguement.

[ThomasJS1]

It's pointless talking to some one who supports the torture of pre born human beings.  And some one who refuses to see reasoned facts when put before them.

Good Bye.

[ThomasJS1]

The statistics speek for themselve. Abortion made legal, Pregnancy rates shot through the roof. Abortion illegal, pregnancy rates Will go way down.

That is simple reasoned logical fact.

[ThomasJS1]

Sapp, you are a foolish idiot. that simple. Hey did you know I was on life support at the age of 10, without it I would have died. By your defination for that 2 weeks I some how magically stopped being human.

Simple fact. All Human Embryology text books agree that a new human being is created at the moment of Fertilization. Look it up yourself.

Science has proven the humanity of the unborn. So any arguement you have is a straw man one at best.

[ThomasJS1]

No but it's a huge part in stopping it.

Think how many ppl will decide to wait on sex because they no longer have the cop out of abortion. Think of how many ppl will actually Start using condoms because they no longer have the easy way out.

Hell just look at the statistics yourself. When abortion was made legal the teen pregnancy rate shot through the roof. Why do you think that is???

[CthulhuTheGreat]

No, you don't get my point, or I'm not getting yours. But I think we are close. My point is: it is pointless to argue about logistics of sth without considering morality. If you will do so, you accept that "the end justifies the means". As for abortion - in my (not so humble) opinion the only way to argue for abortion is to try to prove that fetus is not a human being. Arguing in any other way is the same as arguing, that there are more important things in the world than human life.

[CthulhuTheGreat]

Well if it's another topic, let's resolve problem of poverty in this way. Let's make killing hobos legal, and call it "PovertyLowering". If somebody then wants to make it illegal we can say: "this still doesn't change the fact. What DO you do with all those hobos? Defining it as 'murder' or 'PovertyLowering' is another topic entirely." It kinda implies that hobokilling stays legal until those opposing it provide a way to deal with poverty, doesn't it? I hope you get my point.

[CthulhuTheGreat]

defining human as being capable of living outside of the womb doesn't quite convinces me... I guess all those kids living in neonatal intensive care units, or incubators, aren't humans according to that definition. Or at least weren't human before invention of this machine. And bealive me, I am NOT religious person. I am more atheistic than Marx himself. I just can't accept this "the end justifies the means" approach presented in your video.