"Being homosexual is a product of modern psychology."
Try telling that to the Spartans.
I think the point of the clip in question is that the Bible is full of ridiculous bits and pieces. And considering he quotes from the same book of the Bible as that which the woman relies on to say homosexuality (or related behaviour) is a sin, I'd say Jed's got a better point that you gents.
I don't need a god to inform my morality. Murder and theft hurt innocent people. Homosexual (behaviour) does not.
Part 1 - As Jesus said, "I have not come to abolish the law but fulfill it." What does this mean in relation to execution or stoning of homosexuals or any one who has sinned as the the Old Covenant law demanded. The answer is found in the scene where a woman is brought to Jesus by the Pharisees for execution by stoning for the crime of adultery
Part 2 -Bear in mind this was an attempt of entrapment by the Pharisees. If Jesus had said the law of Moses was done away with ,do not stone her, with that they would have proved Jesus was a false Prophet. On the other hand, it was illegal under Roman Law to execute someone for religious crimes. But Jesus doesn't say do not stone her.. Instead he reveals their own sins ,by asking if any among them are without sin then they should cast the first stone
Part 3- He reveals they all are guilty and deserve the very punishment they are so ready to deal out to the prostitute. Jesus did not tell the woman to clean up her act and then He would forgive her. He said, "Neither do I condemn you; go your way; sin no more." Jesus revealed that we , although deserving of punishment, can be redeemed through his grace. A penitent and contrite heart is what Gods seeks, not death. Does this nullify the Law of Moses, by no means!
Part 3- He reveals they all are guilty and deserve the very punishment they are so ready to deal out to the prostitute. Jesus did not tell the woman to clean up her act and then He would forgive her. He said, "Neither do I condemn you; go your way; sin no more." Jesus revealed that we , although deserving of punishment, can be redeemed through his grace. A penitent and contrite heart is what Gods seeks, not death. Does this nullify the Law of Moses, by no means !
Part 4 The law is alive not dead like a piece of stone and like a man it changes as he matures. Jesus revealed that it was Gods mercy that lies at the heart of the law and that through Him it was possible to obtain that mercy.
If the President had understood this he would not have said the things he did. Homosexuality just like any other sin is a sin is deserving of death - Christ delivers us from that death.
If it were not this way then Jesus himself would be guilty of breaking Gods law!
A) You don't become gay from the way you brought up. Shame on you for trying to blame parents for there children's homosexuality.
B) Homosexual wish they could change because of the guilt force upon them by various religions.
C) It amazes me how literal interpretation of the bible only applies when, uh...uh...oh that's right, when it's convenient! As a (non-fundamentalist) Christian, it infuriates me hearing these hypocritical arguments that justify hatred & discrimination against gays.
A Cheap shot ! Why quote the Law of Moses, meant for the Israielites living under the Old Covenant to a gentile Christian living under the New Covenant.
Would you judge a Frenchman living in France under American law, I think not. While homosexuality is condemed as sinfull under the New Covenant unlike the Old covenant it does not promote death ,stoning or any of the other things the President mentioned. The script wriers have made their anti Christian belief well known over past episodes.
That west wing episode mostly insulted the community of Jews rather than the Christian community they were targeting. O.T. Christianity is inspired by the intellectual elite class of ancient Jews you retarded gentile hordes! Would you prefer a platter of Bolshevikov Stalinisme from Jews instead of their old fashioned philosophies? The writers of the West Wing can suck my circumsized Arab dick. They should direct their commentary toward Jewery and get PWND by their Freemasonic geniuses.
I wish I could live long enough to see the day when Christianity is viewed as archaic mythology. Just as we today look back on extinct religious faiths, future generations will look back on us in bewilderment, unable to comprehend how so many people actually held such strong convictions for what is so clearly utter nonsense.
Actually, the point of that West Wing scene is that you can't pick and choose what parts of the bible you follow and what parts you don't. It makes you look like a sanctimonious hypocrite.
Either god makes a whole host of mistakes or he's a masochistic being that enjoys watching human suffering. Either way he should be answerable for his crimes. Gods worse than Hitler, Stalin, Hussein & Gadaffi all put together.
The best part is god created all men in his own image 'apparently'. A god is meant to be perfect, makes no mistakes and is omnipotent. Yet somehow he / she / it, let us suffer from birth defects, homosexuality, lesbianism & lust; to name a few. You may try & play the old freewill card or blame the devil. But god apparently gave us the freewill & the devil in the first place and being omnipotent & all knowing would have already known the problems it would have cause.
This “Dr. Craig” initially sounds relatively progressive for a fundamenatlist Christian, i.e. that people are simply gay because that’s the way they are and not because of education/the media. But he then adds “if you talk to many homosexuals they will tell you they’d do ANYTHING to change their orientation.” That is just complete bollocks.
I love how you Christians and Catholics always neglect to explain WHY homosexual "acts" are wrong in the eyes of your precious god. Well, let me just spoil all of your fun for you. According to the Bible, having sex for the SOLE PURPOSE of pleasure and NOT for procreation is this "abomination" everyone speaks of. Considering gays can't procreate, that's what has god in a big hissy. Lust is the abomination, NOT HOMOSEXUAL ACTS! Isn't it funny how HETEROSEXUAL PEOPLE are guilty of that as well???
"I love how you Christians and Catholics always neglect to explain WHY homosexual "acts" are wrong in the eyes of your precious god." Well here it goes....homosexual acts are contrary to the way God made the male and females parts which were designed to fit into each other. It's like trying to put screws that were made to screw into a nut into each other.
Please state the verse where the bible says it's an abomination to have sex soley for pleasure.
"In REALITY, the Bible was written by MEN for CROWD CONTROL. It's pretty obvious"
Oh really! Prove it. It's not pretty obvious to biblical scholars not even the unbelieving ones. Bart Ehrman wouldn't even agree with you on that one. It's "pretty obvious" you don't know much about the bible. Your thoughts on this are obviously prejudicial congecture.
@Mozart1220 Spot on...religion relies on peoples fear and the lack of understanding within our surroundings. 1000's of years ago anything that could not be explained was supernatural. I wonder how people viewed the Northern lights 2000yrs ago, even thunder was meant to be an angry god until we found out it was not. The complete ignorance of these things is either down to denial or stupidity.
@mjmunn1903 Actually I have no problem with people using their faith to help themselves. It's when they use it as a weapon against others that I have to speak out. But yeah, it's crowd control. I keep asking for one shred of evidence that any God exists. So far... nothing.
dont blame the west wing this is what is excepted by all the people i kno AND the two duds in this vid DO NOT GET is that if you believe in something you SHOULD NOT pick and choose what parts to follow and i think that this part of the show should be played like it was a commercials dering the day because i am sick of all Christians picking and choosing ESPECIALLY in this country oh btw STOP trying to "save" people of other religionsWE DO NOT WANT TO BE "SAVED" im Jewish and my name is Cain
@fifthjaricho Exactly. If the Old Testament is so unimportant for Christians, then stop printing it. Stop quoting choice cuts from it. Stop using it every time you wish to condemn someone. Stop pretending that it's unimportant whenever someone rightfully points our how full of crap it is.
@UberNoodleX...that's how the ultra conservatives use the Bible...they pick and choose the parts they like and ignore the rest. Let's not forget that the 10 Commandments they want plastered everywhere are in the Old Testament.
@fifthjaricho As for your last point -- I'm atheist. My wife is Buddhist/Shinto, technically. She & her family have a wonderful life, not forcing their beliefs on others, not condemning others for not believing, & generally not being dicks. Historically, Buddhism & Shinto, as with any state religion, have been embroiled in political affairs, yet generally there's nothing inherent within them that inspires the judgement upon others seen so often in so-called Christianity. No wonder she's so happy
The entire point of that scene in the West Wing was completely mischaracterized by the host. The point of the scene did not really have as much to with the morality of homosexuality, it was the point of the hypocrisy by some on the Christian right.
Incorrect, the West Wing was attempting to point out a supposed hypocrisy. Turns out they proved themselves to be very ignorant. It was painfully obvious that they have no knowledge of Scripture. The sad part is that they prey on the ignorant and the hateful. This is all quite ironic as they were trying to show how ignorant Christians are when the egg is on their faces.
@abc1000001 Why do you do that? You accuse the West Wing of not being familiar with the Bible. You accuse me of not watching the video I'm commenting on. Its almost as if you are saying that people with opinions opposite to your own are completely ignorant and have no valid reason for their view. Its like saying the only reason people like Coke is because they haven't tried your favorite brand, Pepsi.
No, that's not it at all. Clearly Sheen's character is quoting from the Bible, just like the woman did. Sheen's character was trying to prove a point, that being Christians pick and choose what they follow. Why I called them ignorant is that when you read the whote Bible, not just pick out little things and take them out of context. You see, if you read Acts of the Apostles chapter 10, verses 1-15. You'll find the answer and thus disproves West Wing's point. Part 1 of 2
Why I said that you haven't seen the video is that your statement trying to state that I am wrong (remember you stated that I am not looking around and now you're upset at me), doesn't match with what was spoken on the video. The video is not an opinion, meaning that the characterization that they're portraying is very clear, how you cannot see that is a mystery to me. There is no opinion on this, simply facts.
Then its funny that those things were declared unclean in the first place. Also, that story has nothing to say about selling your daughter into slavery or homosexuality or executing those who work on the Sabbath. The West Wing isn't pointing out hypocrisy... its pointing out the flat out primitive morality that this book is based on. I notice that you mention Jesus shooting down the WW argument, so I'd like to see the verse where he changes all the jots and tittles.
@filorps I did provide the verses in my previous comment, Acts 10:1-15.
My point still stands, the West Wing has a very low level of knowledge about the Bible. You can't just pick and choose, you have to take things in context and actually read and know the Bible. It was painfully obvious that they have no such knowledge and were pushing their left wing talking points in an extremely ficticious situation.
"Being homosexual is a product of modern psychology."
Try telling that to the Spartans.
I think the point of the clip in question is that the Bible is full of ridiculous bits and pieces. And considering he quotes from the same book of the Bible as that which the woman relies on to say homosexuality (or related behaviour) is a sin, I'd say Jed's got a better point that you gents.
I don't need a god to inform my morality. Murder and theft hurt innocent people. Homosexual (behaviour) does not.
NoniDoll 2 weeks ago
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Part 1 - As Jesus said, "I have not come to abolish the law but fulfill it." What does this mean in relation to execution or stoning of homosexuals or any one who has sinned as the the Old Covenant law demanded. The answer is found in the scene where a woman is brought to Jesus by the Pharisees for execution by stoning for the crime of adultery
MrMaxTruth 2 weeks ago
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Part 2 -Bear in mind this was an attempt of entrapment by the Pharisees. If Jesus had said the law of Moses was done away with ,do not stone her, with that they would have proved Jesus was a false Prophet. On the other hand, it was illegal under Roman Law to execute someone for religious crimes. But Jesus doesn't say do not stone her.. Instead he reveals their own sins ,by asking if any among them are without sin then they should cast the first stone
MrMaxTruth 2 weeks ago
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Part 3- He reveals they all are guilty and deserve the very punishment they are so ready to deal out to the prostitute. Jesus did not tell the woman to clean up her act and then He would forgive her. He said, "Neither do I condemn you; go your way; sin no more." Jesus revealed that we , although deserving of punishment, can be redeemed through his grace. A penitent and contrite heart is what Gods seeks, not death. Does this nullify the Law of Moses, by no means!
MrMaxTruth 2 weeks ago
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Part 3- He reveals they all are guilty and deserve the very punishment they are so ready to deal out to the prostitute. Jesus did not tell the woman to clean up her act and then He would forgive her. He said, "Neither do I condemn you; go your way; sin no more." Jesus revealed that we , although deserving of punishment, can be redeemed through his grace. A penitent and contrite heart is what Gods seeks, not death. Does this nullify the Law of Moses, by no means !
MrMaxTruth 2 weeks ago
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Part 4 The law is alive not dead like a piece of stone and like a man it changes as he matures. Jesus revealed that it was Gods mercy that lies at the heart of the law and that through Him it was possible to obtain that mercy.
If the President had understood this he would not have said the things he did. Homosexuality just like any other sin is a sin is deserving of death - Christ delivers us from that death.
If it were not this way then Jesus himself would be guilty of breaking Gods law!
MrMaxTruth 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
ipekatomang 2 months ago
Homosexual orientation or behavior? Game over bible thumpers.... accept your ignorance or just move on and evolve as the rest of society.
fanagot 2 months ago
A) You don't become gay from the way you brought up. Shame on you for trying to blame parents for there children's homosexuality.
B) Homosexual wish they could change because of the guilt force upon them by various religions.
C) It amazes me how literal interpretation of the bible only applies when, uh...uh...oh that's right, when it's convenient! As a (non-fundamentalist) Christian, it infuriates me hearing these hypocritical arguments that justify hatred & discrimination against gays.
roxannefran 2 months ago
A Cheap shot ! Why quote the Law of Moses, meant for the Israielites living under the Old Covenant to a gentile Christian living under the New Covenant.
Would you judge a Frenchman living in France under American law, I think not. While homosexuality is condemed as sinfull under the New Covenant unlike the Old covenant it does not promote death ,stoning or any of the other things the President mentioned. The script wriers have made their anti Christian belief well known over past episodes.
OttoKrinklebottom 2 months ago
That west wing episode mostly insulted the community of Jews rather than the Christian community they were targeting. O.T. Christianity is inspired by the intellectual elite class of ancient Jews you retarded gentile hordes! Would you prefer a platter of Bolshevikov Stalinisme from Jews instead of their old fashioned philosophies? The writers of the West Wing can suck my circumsized Arab dick. They should direct their commentary toward Jewery and get PWND by their Freemasonic geniuses.
PrimeConsciousness 3 months ago
Jesus was gay so Praise our gay God
MrAllad 3 months ago
I wish I could live long enough to see the day when Christianity is viewed as archaic mythology. Just as we today look back on extinct religious faiths, future generations will look back on us in bewilderment, unable to comprehend how so many people actually held such strong convictions for what is so clearly utter nonsense.
cjcnx2000 3 months ago 5
Fuck you I am gay and proud of it.
SpeerRush 3 months ago
If I was made in gods image then god must have a small penis. Sad for him
eatmoresoap 3 months ago
So why are the bible heads so intrested in homosexuality anyhow? Must be they are afraid we might find out something about them................
eatmoresoap 3 months ago
Actually, the point of that West Wing scene is that you can't pick and choose what parts of the bible you follow and what parts you don't. It makes you look like a sanctimonious hypocrite.
mdtalley 3 months ago 4
Your upbringing can cause homosexuality? Holy smoke, how out of touch can someone be?
It's no wonder they don't really understand what the West Wing clip is about.
qhsperson 3 months ago
Either god makes a whole host of mistakes or he's a masochistic being that enjoys watching human suffering. Either way he should be answerable for his crimes. Gods worse than Hitler, Stalin, Hussein & Gadaffi all put together.
mjmunn1903 4 months ago
The best part is god created all men in his own image 'apparently'. A god is meant to be perfect, makes no mistakes and is omnipotent. Yet somehow he / she / it, let us suffer from birth defects, homosexuality, lesbianism & lust; to name a few. You may try & play the old freewill card or blame the devil. But god apparently gave us the freewill & the devil in the first place and being omnipotent & all knowing would have already known the problems it would have cause.
mjmunn1903 4 months ago
A weener fits in the butt
threefun02 4 months ago
This was...I dunno, I think the word is "enlightening"?
Orangeninja5000 5 months ago
@abc thankfully most "Christians" do pick and choose from the bible else we'd live in a deeply unpleasant world carrying out all the acts of th
mrtotes 5 months ago
This “Dr. Craig” initially sounds relatively progressive for a fundamenatlist Christian, i.e. that people are simply gay because that’s the way they are and not because of education/the media. But he then adds “if you talk to many homosexuals they will tell you they’d do ANYTHING to change their orientation.” That is just complete bollocks.
pretzelberg 8 months ago
I love how you Christians and Catholics always neglect to explain WHY homosexual "acts" are wrong in the eyes of your precious god. Well, let me just spoil all of your fun for you. According to the Bible, having sex for the SOLE PURPOSE of pleasure and NOT for procreation is this "abomination" everyone speaks of. Considering gays can't procreate, that's what has god in a big hissy. Lust is the abomination, NOT HOMOSEXUAL ACTS! Isn't it funny how HETEROSEXUAL PEOPLE are guilty of that as well???
bluetextonwhitebg 10 months ago
@bluetextonwhitebg
You said:
"I love how you Christians and Catholics always neglect to explain WHY homosexual "acts" are wrong in the eyes of your precious god." Well here it goes....homosexual acts are contrary to the way God made the male and females parts which were designed to fit into each other. It's like trying to put screws that were made to screw into a nut into each other.
Please state the verse where the bible says it's an abomination to have sex soley for pleasure.
CRM0001 5 months ago
@CRM0001 Prove God exists, and then prove "he" wrote the Bible. In REALITY, the Bible was written by MEN for CROWD CONTROL. It's pretty obvious.
Mozart1220 4 months ago
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@Mozart1220
You said:
"In REALITY, the Bible was written by MEN for CROWD CONTROL. It's pretty obvious"
Oh really! Prove it. It's not pretty obvious to biblical scholars not even the unbelieving ones. Bart Ehrman wouldn't even agree with you on that one. It's "pretty obvious" you don't know much about the bible. Your thoughts on this are obviously prejudicial congecture.
CRM0001 4 months ago
@Mozart1220 Spot on...religion relies on peoples fear and the lack of understanding within our surroundings. 1000's of years ago anything that could not be explained was supernatural. I wonder how people viewed the Northern lights 2000yrs ago, even thunder was meant to be an angry god until we found out it was not. The complete ignorance of these things is either down to denial or stupidity.
mjmunn1903 4 months ago
@mjmunn1903 Actually I have no problem with people using their faith to help themselves. It's when they use it as a weapon against others that I have to speak out. But yeah, it's crowd control. I keep asking for one shred of evidence that any God exists. So far... nothing.
Mozart1220 4 months ago
Religion is an abomination.
bluetextonwhitebg 10 months ago
dont blame the west wing this is what is excepted by all the people i kno AND the two duds in this vid DO NOT GET is that if you believe in something you SHOULD NOT pick and choose what parts to follow and i think that this part of the show should be played like it was a commercials dering the day because i am sick of all Christians picking and choosing ESPECIALLY in this country oh btw STOP trying to "save" people of other religionsWE DO NOT WANT TO BE "SAVED" im Jewish and my name is Cain
fifthjaricho 1 year ago 9
@fifthjaricho Exactly. If the Old Testament is so unimportant for Christians, then stop printing it. Stop quoting choice cuts from it. Stop using it every time you wish to condemn someone. Stop pretending that it's unimportant whenever someone rightfully points our how full of crap it is.
UberNoodleX 3 months ago
@UberNoodleX...that's how the ultra conservatives use the Bible...they pick and choose the parts they like and ignore the rest. Let's not forget that the 10 Commandments they want plastered everywhere are in the Old Testament.
svrhodes77 3 months ago
@fifthjaricho As for your last point -- I'm atheist. My wife is Buddhist/Shinto, technically. She & her family have a wonderful life, not forcing their beliefs on others, not condemning others for not believing, & generally not being dicks. Historically, Buddhism & Shinto, as with any state religion, have been embroiled in political affairs, yet generally there's nothing inherent within them that inspires the judgement upon others seen so often in so-called Christianity. No wonder she's so happy
UberNoodleX 3 months ago
The entire point of that scene in the West Wing was completely mischaracterized by the host. The point of the scene did not really have as much to with the morality of homosexuality, it was the point of the hypocrisy by some on the Christian right.
socalledcollegelife 1 year ago
the character in question is portrayed as quite a devout catholic...
adrianmichaelrook 1 year ago
the west wing wasn't bible bashing at all. the character of the president is a catholic who speaks latin.
adrianmichaelrook 1 year ago 2
Beyond what they say here is that in Acts of the Apostles, Jesus shoots down the West Wing argument.
abc1000001 1 year ago
The point was... the Bible is by no means a guide for public policy.
Follow it personally if you like.
filorps 1 year ago 19
@filorps
Incorrect, the West Wing was attempting to point out a supposed hypocrisy. Turns out they proved themselves to be very ignorant. It was painfully obvious that they have no knowledge of Scripture. The sad part is that they prey on the ignorant and the hateful. This is all quite ironic as they were trying to show how ignorant Christians are when the egg is on their faces.
abc1000001 1 year ago
@abc1000001 Keep telling yourself that and don't look around..
filorps 1 year ago
@filorps
You obviously haven't seen the video then.
abc1000001 1 year ago
@abc1000001 Why do you do that? You accuse the West Wing of not being familiar with the Bible. You accuse me of not watching the video I'm commenting on. Its almost as if you are saying that people with opinions opposite to your own are completely ignorant and have no valid reason for their view. Its like saying the only reason people like Coke is because they haven't tried your favorite brand, Pepsi.
filorps 1 year ago
@filorps
No, that's not it at all. Clearly Sheen's character is quoting from the Bible, just like the woman did. Sheen's character was trying to prove a point, that being Christians pick and choose what they follow. Why I called them ignorant is that when you read the whote Bible, not just pick out little things and take them out of context. You see, if you read Acts of the Apostles chapter 10, verses 1-15. You'll find the answer and thus disproves West Wing's point. Part 1 of 2
abc1000001 1 year ago
@filorps Part 2 of 2
Why I said that you haven't seen the video is that your statement trying to state that I am wrong (remember you stated that I am not looking around and now you're upset at me), doesn't match with what was spoken on the video. The video is not an opinion, meaning that the characterization that they're portraying is very clear, how you cannot see that is a mystery to me. There is no opinion on this, simply facts.
abc1000001 1 year ago
@abc1000001
Then its funny that those things were declared unclean in the first place. Also, that story has nothing to say about selling your daughter into slavery or homosexuality or executing those who work on the Sabbath. The West Wing isn't pointing out hypocrisy... its pointing out the flat out primitive morality that this book is based on. I notice that you mention Jesus shooting down the WW argument, so I'd like to see the verse where he changes all the jots and tittles.
filorps 1 year ago
@filorps I did provide the verses in my previous comment, Acts 10:1-15.
My point still stands, the West Wing has a very low level of knowledge about the Bible. You can't just pick and choose, you have to take things in context and actually read and know the Bible. It was painfully obvious that they have no such knowledge and were pushing their left wing talking points in an extremely ficticious situation.
abc1000001 1 year ago
@filorps yeah, but too many people take it LITERALLY
IwantJenniferConelly 2 months ago