Re: Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 24)

[Exmech2]

Hate to tell ya... Don't think Zeitgeist is too "mind-blowing". It's utter bullshit.

1 star for zeitgeist reference.

[suzywao]

Totally with you on which parts of Zeitgeist are like HOLYCRAP and which are suss. :P

[1tabligh]

How about 3rd option?

Delude yourself with Pseudo-Scientific Demagoguery!

Yes?

So Pseudo-Scientific Demagoguery is your uncaused cause creator God?

No?

How about 4th option?

There is no 4th option, O' brainless cuckoo atheists with asinine mind, clock off!

How long do you intend to beat around the scientific BUSH, O' brainless SWEETY atheists with asinine mind?

"........deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they do not understand. "

The Quran 2:171

[hellasweet4twizzle]

Do you have an argument, or a spew of koran verses, oh delusional muslim ass?

I've heard your shit before, please kill yourself, the best part of you slid down the crack of your mom's ass, and ended up as a brown stain on a mattress.

[1tabligh]

PROOF - ATHEIST ARE BRAINWASHED AND DELUDED! Here is a proof, the joke is gone too far! 1st option: Is God uncaused cause? Yes? So God is your uncaused cause creator God? No? How about 2nd option? Is matter/energy uncaused cause? Yes? So matter/energy is your uncaused cause creator God? No? continue.....

[kargaethas]

How about this: I dont know what was the uncaused cause and i dont give a fuck about it.

Im not a scientist and im not going to act like i am one.

[1tabligh]

God and Empirical Logic.

One of the most destructive and misleading factors in thoughts concerning God is to restrict one's thought to the "logic" of the empirical sciences and to *fail* to recognize the *limits* and boundaries of that "logic".

Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter?

[kargaethas]

How should i know?

Go ask Cern or NASA, im not a scientist and im pretty doubtfull about you being a scientist too.

What exactly can i examine with logic?

Logic and my senses are things that i examine the world with, if i throw them away i might aswell start believing everything im told.

[1tabligh]

Should the scientist, who is aware of the natural causes and of the factors determining each step of creation towards perfection, of mankind's evolution, of the minute accuracy and exactitude that rules every change in the nature that surrounds us, come to believe that these wondrous laws and amazing interactions have somehow fortuitously emerged out of mindless matter?

[kargaethas]

I dont know, go ask the scientist.

My opinion is that it wasnt probable but it happened.

[1tabligh]

Is it at all feasible to regard all the precise geometry, functioning and movement of the universe as the outcome of matter in its ignorance?

Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!

[kargaethas]

Are you trying to tell me that the universe is perfect?

If so then why are people dying to earthquakes, volchanoes and tsunamis?

I dont even know why i bother anymore.

[1tabligh]

If we occasionally perceive weak points in nature this does not imply inadequacy or defect in the vast book of creation. Our thought and perception and unable to soar and take flight, and the reach of our intelligence is too short to understand all the mysteries and enigmas of the universe. Our intellect cannot discern all the aims and goals of existence. ...

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh

Blah blah blah blah...

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun How can you delude yourself and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh ...verbal diarrhea...

There is no machine, there is no designer, there's only this life; electrons and protons did not 'produce themselves', they are not 'the source for all other beings' (how? when? by what mechanism?) and they most definitely did not 'decree any laws'. And you say *I* delude *myself*? By refusing to believe in something for which there is no shred of evidence? Keep spouting your mindless drivel if you wish, but don't talk to me about delusions.

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun Should the scientist, who is aware of the natural causes and of the factors determining each step of creation towards perfection, of mankind's evolution, of the minute accuracy and exactitude that rules every change in the nature that surrounds us, come to believe that these wondrous laws and amazing interactions have somehow fortuitously emerged out of mindless matter?

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh

Blah blah blah blah? Blah blah. Blah blah blah? Blah? Replying in questions really does not make you seem more intelligent, or your arguments more compelling. Try having an original thought for once.

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun Blah blah blah blah? Blah blah. Blah blah blah?

---------

So much science for this pseudo-Scientific Demagogue!

Hiding your ignorance and arrogance under your stupid pretext of "Blah blah blah blah? Blah blah. Blah blah blah?"!

Dodging ALL the questions and quibbling in vain!

The argument of an IGNORANT!

Is it at all feasible to regard all the precise geometry, functioning and movement of the universe as the outcome of matter in its ignorance?

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh

You seem to have missed the point. Which does not surprise me, but let me try again. You ask questions for which the answers are unknowable or subjective.

"How can you..."

-- In the same way you evidently 'delude' yourself by believing some all-powerful puppet master in the sky thought "Hey, let's create some elements, molecules, and laws, and sit back until my pets figure out how they fit together"

(cont...)

[Cizevun]

(cont...)

"Should the scientist..."

-- I don't know, should he? It depends on his conclusions. Which are subjective. Which makes the answer moot.

"Is it feasible..."

-- Yes, just as feasible as supposing a 'creator' which 'designed' everything: we just don't know.

(cont...)

[Cizevun]

(cont...)

So why would I expend energy to come up with an answer when there's no way you will be swayed by them, since you have already made up your mind? That's no way to debate. What you're doing is simply to dress up arguments I've heard many times before in intelligent sounding bullshit. So I'll reiterate -- try having an original thought for once.

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun How could it be believed that matter should itself be the origin of millions of attributes and characteristics and thus be the equivalent of the purposeful, wise and all-knowing Creator?

How can it be supposed that belief in the existence of God is the acceptance of contradiction, whereas belief in the uncaused nature of an effect such as matter is not contradictory?

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh

Gods. You really don't get it do you? One last try then --

Put your question on its head:

"How could it be believed that [a] [purposeful, wise and all-knowing Creator] [of] matter should itself be the origin of millions of attributes and characteristics and thus be the equivalent of [matter itself]?"

(cont...)

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh

Gods. You really don't get it do you? One last try then --

Put your question on its head:

"How could it be believed that [a] [purposeful, wise and all-knowing Creator] [of] matter should itself be the origin of millions of attributes and characteristics and thus be the equivalent of [matter itself]?"

(cont...)

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun Is it at all possible that the cells of the body should learn their functions, pursue their aim in a precise and orderly fashion, and crystallize so miraculously in the world of being, without there being a conscious and powerful being to instruct them?

Is it not rather the case that phenomena such as these prove and demonstrate, with the utmost emphasis, the need for a plan, a design, a guiding hand inspired by conscious will?

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh Okay, finally you have exhausted my patience. Systematic of your kind, you don't read responses, choose to ignore them, or are just plain stupid.

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun Before he enters the realm of science and knowledge with all its concerns, man is able to perceive certain truths by means of these innate perceptions. But after entering the sphere of science and philosophy and filling his *brain* with various proofs and deductions, he may forget his natural and innate perceptions or begin to doubt them. It is for this reason that when man moves beyond his innate nature to delineate a belief, differences begin to appear. ....

[1tabligh]

God and Empirical Logic.

One of the most destructive and misleading factors in thoughts concerning God is to restrict one's thought to the "logic" of the empirical sciences and to *fail* to recognize the *limits* and boundaries of that "logic".

Is that which is necessary in essence and which is considered the first source of existence matter itself or something else beyond the limits of matter? ...

How is that for YOUR "...are just plain stupid. "?

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh "How is that..."

Well, as I'm sure you've missed, that is, indeed, a fine example of your being just plain stupid.

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun Dodging ALL the questions and quibbling in vain!

Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!

Is it not more logical to posit the existence of intelligence, will and planning in the creation of and ordering of the world than to attribute creativity to matter which lacks intelligence, thought, consciousness and the power to innovate?

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh You're like a broken record, dude.

[1tabligh]

@Cizevun Belief in the existence of a wise creator is without doubt more logical than faith in the creativity of matter, which has neither perception, consciousness, nor the ability to plan; we cannot attribute to matter all the properties and attributes of intelligence that we see in the world and the ordering will that it displays.

[moveste]

@Cizevun 1tabligh is probably a piece of software. Whatever you write, 1tabligh will respond with texts copied from some leading muslim's speeches and books.

The pattern seems to be that certain words in what you have written will result in certain texts from 1tabligh.

If you Google for some of his sentences, you'll see the same texts all over the web, in fora where 1tabligh operates.

Someone tested him here on yt, with texts about barbecueing, and still received the exact same responses.

[1tabligh]

If we are unable to understand the function of a small screw in a great machine, does this give us the right to accuse and condemn its designer as ignorant?

Or is that the horizon of our gaze is too narrow to encompass the true aim and purpose of the machine?

[GeneralBolas]

That assumes that the scientist in question believes that mankind is "perfection". Which pretty much every field of science (or even looking out the window) will tell you is 100% BS. We ain't perfect. Not even close.

[GeneralBolas]

Logic is a tool, like math, for getting right answers from right input. If your premises are correct, and your logic is actually logic, then your conclusions will also be correct.

This does not preclude non-logical means from also producing correct answers. But why use them when you have already developed a technique that is *always* right? Doesn't it make sense to rely on what actually works (logic and reason) rather than what may or may not work?

[GeneralBolas]

Or, to put it another way: empirical logic *works*. Everything around you in modern society is a testament to the utility of empirical science.

Look at the 4 classical elements. If Aristotle had employed empiricism in his study of the world, he would never have come up with this nonsense. And thus, the field of chemistry wouldn't have been stunted by 1500 years of alchemy.

How long was the field of medicine stunted by beliefs that illnesses were demons or some other thing?

[1tabligh]

How could some of the scientists permit themselves to make a claim that would necessitate knowledge as extensive as the scheme of the universe, when their knowledge of the total scheme of being is *close* to zero, when confronted with a whole mass of unknowns conceming this very earth and tangible, lifeless matter, let alone the whole universe?

Materialism looks at the world with one eye *closed* and, as a result, is unable to answer numerous questions!

[Cizevun]

@1tabligh You need to look up the definition of 'proof', pitiful little sheep. And try a structured argument next time instead of a list of statements. (Or a list of questions)

Your assumption that matter/energy is 'uncaused cause' (horrible English) is stupid to begin with.

[xinlo]

the only thing about zeitgeist that i know isn't true is all the attributes of the gods that seem to line up perfectly. the attributes are just not true

[Polarbearhappy]

i wouldnt take Zeitgesit too seriously but it is a very interesting movie. I dont know if it is all true bout 911 and the ecomony stuff but it owns religion

[JebusGeist]

make him watch zeitgeist?

i think we should perhaps try and find a book or documentary which stays on the topic of religion and doesn't go off on wild political tangents.

[dranakan]

what is zeigiest (however its spelled) and where can i see it?

[conrad4ever]

Zeitgeist is not sticktly accurate. it could be said that the first part is correct but they cant back up what they are saying and it doesnt really seam to tie into the rest of the film which is complete propaganda. its well made but is still propaganda and this si coming from a athiest.

[marcluc1988]

Great Britain doesn't appear to be anywhere near as obsessed with religion as the US.

[R0SECR0IX]

Damn right it isn't. Most of us saw through that shit some time ago... I can't for the life of me understand why one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world (the US) still harbours so many super-credulous believers...

[RichardMNixon]

Yeah, UK didn't give two shits about Lennon saying he was bigger than Jesus.

[R0SECR0IX]

Well, what he said was completely true - for many of those kids he WAS bigger than Jesus. The funny thing is the UK has a state religion, and yet religion plays a much smaller role in society. Perhaps the US should do the same thing - establish the church, make George W. the head of it, and nobody would go any more! Damn central government, always interfering...

[TheSpineyOne]

The church of England acts as a kind of vaccination against christianity. It's a stepping stone to atheism.

[R0SECR0IX]

Absolutely. I've known many CofE vicars, and they're generally very open-minded. It's all about intellectual curiosity. Which does, I'm afraid, tend to lead to atheism.

[1983scooter1983]

lol

[1983scooter1983]

You know why Christains feel sorry for people like you is you will fall for anything anyone tells you as long as it is something you want to hear. I am 47 years old and this stuff came out about 20 years ago and it was debunked back then and put on a shelf just waiting to come back for a new generation of young people to eat it up as true. Watch these youtube videos

Zeitgeist Refuted & Zeitgeist Challenge Exposes Acharya S and Zeitgeist

[HarrisonTheFan]

I'm an impressionable youth, what are you gonna do?

[tribidemp]

"you will fall for anything anyone tells you as long as it is something you want to hear."

A hilariously ironic statement made by a christian. This coming from someone who believes that some guy walked on water, turned water into wine and eventually rose from the dead simply because Bronze Aged people told stories and someone eventually wrote it down. I guess you would know gullible when you saw it, or would you? There's a saying for that, oh yeah "the pot calling the kettle black?"

HIlarious.

[Cizevun]

@tribidemp Or, as his precious bible puts it:

(Matthew 7:3-5)

3. And why behold the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4. Or how will thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Maybe such language is easier for him to identify with...

[wwwADAMSPADEcom]

I am a Christian myself. I have to say that the feeling I get about non believers is total concern that they may be without God. So, it is sympathy and care that we feel. But I must say that government has their hand in our science books and they hide many things, as well as teach falsehoods. As humans, we should question everything and pursue truth. The bible should be considered a valuable reference as any other science book and should have bearing on our decisions in life. Believer or not.

[LBTennis]

"As humans, we should question everything"

well how bout you start by taking a hard look at your precious bible. Do alittle research and you'll see why it should never be considered a valuable reference for anything.

[JebusGeist]

"But I must say that government has their hand in our science books and they hide many things, as well as teach falsehoods. "

I know it's 5 months since you've made that statement, but, can you please provide examples?

"The bible should be considered a valuable reference as any other science book"

This implication that the bible is a scientific text also requires justification. By not having provided any within your comment you have made it appear to be nothing more than baseless assertions.

[Thecriticofdooooom]

I would like to see it to. Maby someone can upload it? I don't think the producers would mind more viewers. So there is probably not going to be a copywright infringement.

Hasn't anyone uploaded it yet? Its not anywhere on other sites. Maby I should try godtube, they would do that.

[Thecriticofdooooom]

No, forget it. just 3000 trailers of that piece of crap.

[winterstellar]

I don't think the movie will be imported anywhere in Europe. There are no creationists here, or they are so few you never ever hear about them. So there wouldn't be a market for that movie, nobody would bother to see it. You should try out Europe, in my country for instance the churches are almost completely empty on sundays, and the few people who are there are either very old or immigrants from some christian part of the world. It must be hard to live in America for an atheist? Fight religion!

[Starcutter20]

nah Expelled like all documentries that are not made by michele morre gets a limited release and allot of the people that will see it are church goers and few people like us who ask questions.

[HarrisonTheFan]

Good point

[usbiker133t]

Expelled was released in more theaters than any other documentary ever, including michael moore. it came out in 1052 theaters. It didn't even gross 3mil in its opening weekend. Ben stein is a loser, i couldnt imagine someone releasing this movie, its a movie not a documentary, and actually believing what is said in it. The NY Times called it, "A conspiracy theory rant masquerading as investigative inquirey."

[Evolutionrunbackward]

Creationism coexisting with science >>> materialist egomainiacs

[Wildy1357]

Eh, people wouldn't think about it too much.

We don't care too much about religion, at least not as much as the Yanks do.

Hell I'm in the city of churches, the least religious capital city in the country.

[lokilokii]

Its pretty fruitless to try and convenience them with logic when they have already thrown that aspect out the window. The only way to beat religion is with time.

[Cacovangor]

(last comment failed to post)

To my knowledge Expelled is not receiving a wide showing, the producers are asking groups in fact to ask theaters to show Expelled. Further, there is a theater locater on the website.

What this means I cannot tell you, but Expelled is obviously not a select nor all theaters movie.

I would presume that Expelled will feed on the ignorant masses of America where we have to hush ourselves with any critiquing of Religion lest we violate their right to condemn us.

[HarrisonTheFan]

It sucks the fact the United States have thw whole "One nation under God" quote, but thats what happens when your country is founded by a bunch of monotheistic British idiots

[Cacovangor]

Actually the whole One Nation Under God quote was derived due to McCarthy era (1950s) fear of Communism, or more directly fear of insinuation of Communist connections. In an effort to press ourselves away from the normally secular doctrines of the Communist nations that was pressured through by the Knights of Columbus.

Sadly the prohibition against establishment seems to be ignored anymore. I think that we stole all of your monotheistic British idiots who stayed silent around Jefferson.

[HarrisonTheFan]

Good point, I'm glad I don't live in the US for all the stupidity and hypocrisy

[suspense304]

Is placing a stereotype on an entire country of people really less stupid? Have you been to America? How many people do you frequently communicate with in person or in offline forms of communication?

You have a link a a documentary in your description and since your promoting it I believe you must believe what is stated by the film... And considering this you would realize that the entire world as a whole is being lied to and misled, not just Americans (which I am).

[HarrisonTheFan]

When you see it on a daily basis on the news on youtube and I've met few Americans they've always been loud and obnoxius

[pmokadakeisuke]

Hey! I'm Loud and obnoxious! But I also know when to ask questions. I despise creationists or other religious groups that deem themselves void from Science because god says they are.

I agree, that there is alot lot stupidity and hipocracy in this nation, and alot of it seems to come from these same people. But I would go so far as to lable everyone in America as being such.

Have you seen "Jesus Camp"? Now that shows a scary percentage of our population that is stupid and hypocritical.

[HarrisonTheFan]

Jesus Camp scares the crap out of me, my friend and I watched it together. The those children are coaxed and it's frightening to see them in that sort of state, crying and screming.

I'm gonna be honest I do not think ALL Americans are like that.I do not think they're all stupid. I take back my comment

[pmokadakeisuke]

I feel so sorry for those kids. They never get the chance to see the world as it really is. They never get to explore the vast ocean of knowledge there is out there.

[HarrisonTheFan]

Indeed, I think the education system should be more free, not only just choosing courses but they should learn it all, however I don't know how much attention they'll pay

[usbiker133t]

There is nothing wrong with having an elective theologies class, but don't dare teach creation in science class or i'm comming to your church to teach evolution, it's the same thing. Biology isn't called: where did everything come from? class, it's called biolgy and hence BIOLOGY SHOULD BE TAUGHT. Creationism IS NOT biology.

[raney150]

Just because we creationists believ in a religion doesn't mean we r stupid

[pmokadakeisuke]

Are you joking with here? The reason why I ask is because of your spelling, grammar and lack of punctuation.

Religion dose not make people stupid. However, in the case of creationism and intelligent design, It makes people ignorant. And because they are ignorant, they refuse to learn what is fact, thus making them less knowledgeable. Any person who teaches their children that most of known science is false is in the wrong.

[billyboyjennings]

Yea. It's only a matter of time before we fall.

[HarrisonTheFan]

Maybe, but we can still enjoy the time we have left

[playingchessonmars]

Yes, the first part of Zeitgeist was very interesting but the second and third were just pure conspiracy nonsens.

Anyways, I do not think that a movie like expelled would have any chance outside a country like ths us because especially in Europe people who propose creationism to be taught are being treated like the nutcases they are.

[HarrisonTheFan]

I remember a few years ago there was a bunch of Christians trying to get Evolution removed from the scientific curriculum in Australia.

The case was thrown out of court on the first day.