Why should Americans continue to die in healthcare? Thom debates Dan Gainor

[bebop7c2]

If you like the library, fire fighters, police, the military, and other government runs socialist programs, healther care shouldn't be a big shocker.

Why not take care of our people?

[spackar]

I get really sick of conservatives and the uninformed saying that government sponsored health insurance is "socialist". Single Payer government provided health insurance as in " medicare for all' simply means that the government pays the insurance claims. The government does not own the clinics, hospitals and treatment offices or employ the healthcare workers. Therefore it is not socialist.

[pistol987]

amercians do lie about canada's healthcare. it is pretty much a human right. making a profit is not!

[lacomtessealice]

I am French-American and I am flabbergast to see how many Americans still support the current U.S. healthcare system ? If this happened in France, people would be out on the street decades ago to run down all those "interested parties" ! This is NOT a political issue ! This is a fundamental issue, a human's Right issue! A moral issue! Oh, I forgot, there is no such "moral thing" in our society anymore... It is all about profit.

[guadalupeodiard]

@lacomtessealice I love you. I wanted to say this but didn't find the words. Poor americans. 

[silversnowsnake]

@lacomtessealice Health care is not a human right. FAIL!

[irishgodfatherchris]

@silversnowsnake he said a human right, and according to the UN healthcare is a human right. Did you also know that property isn't a right either

[silversnowsnake]

@irishgodfatherchris Healthcare is not a right. It's a service. UN is not a world government. UN also says everybody has a right to get somewhere to live. Will you let all immigrants in your country because they claim it's a right? No, I won't let people die. My parents are doctors. They treat patient who can't afford free of charge. I would rather raise a medicine fund to help the poor people without stealing other people's money.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@silversnowsnake really so you would allow 40,000 of your own citizens to die because they cannot afford treatment, the US is the only industrialised country in which people die because they cannot afford medical treatment.

[silversnowsnake]

@irishgodfatherchris And wrong again. US federal government is spending in healthcare per capita more than any other countries in the world and it's absolutely a failure. and double wrong again. Many other countries don't have free healthcare. Cuba and N.Korea have free healthcare. Private care is better and cheaper than public care. The problem is the US gov's spending massively and it creates inflation. Inflation makes insurances more expensive and no competition between drug companies.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@silversnowsnake listen to what I said instead of twisting my words to suit your agenda, I said the US is the only Industrialised country (first world) that does not have Universal Healthcare (a compulsory purchase of private insurance is not UHC), if private care was cheaper than public care why is it that I and everyone else in the first-world pay less for our public insurance than we do for private, not everything is about making money I don't think you or the US seems to get that.

[silversnowsnake]

@irishgodfatherchris I don't know where you live and I can't compare costs of private care and public care in your country. I'm from Norway and we have HUGE socialized medicine. The spending per capital is higher than cost of private insurances. Private hospitals are better and cheaper than public hospitals even though gov spends massive amount of tax money. You don't get my point yet. If US gov spending that much is a failure, how could UHC can succeed? Tax limit will be as high as 70%.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@silversnowsnake It sounds like you don't like the system because you can't make money off it.

[silversnowsnake]

@irishgodfatherchris Well, I'm a common upper secondary student who wants to take care of my own health. I don't want to run a drug company. All I want is taking care of myself and saving at where I trust, going to my favorite hospital and doctors I trust. Under UHC, you can't choose much. Bureaucrats fix everything.

[irishgodfatherchris]

@silversnowsnake under yours maybe but under mine I can choose which doctor sees me, I can choose which public hospital I want to go to, the only thing I can't do is choose the surgeon and other specialists to work on me. On the otherhand if I was to purchase private insurance (which I can't due to a lack of funds) I could choose all of those things its essentially like upgrading from economy to business or first class you pay more for those extra perks.

[jeAh7]

@irishgodfatherchris Many Americans are fed up with our hc system. We all know its corrupt. Problem is people like silversnowsnake and others who either have good insurance or their profiting from the broken system.

[madpaintbalerx]

I love it how conservatives just spew out random "facts" with no evidence to try and sway people who may not know better.

[ebeatworld]

Most Liberals love single payer because instead of being the ones paying for it, they are usually on the receiving end. Mark my words, this and all the other socialized programs -- Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security -- will bankrupt the nation.

Free healthcare won't do much for us when our economy takes an even worse dive than it has been doing.

i don't make a lot of money, but I would rather pay for my own healthcare than have the government force me into their system.

[bpentium]

This guys a doofus. Is this the best lefties have for a talk show host? It's so cliche'. Just keep interrupting the host. Typical lefties tact. Then it's pick on Palin again. GIVE IT A REST. And if people are dying due to not having healthcare they need to get jobs. Maybe we should send out taxis to pick up the bums to take them to the doctor? How about give all of these sick people free homes and heating so they don't get sick so often.

[bpentium]

Thanks to Obama, 4 million people are going bankrupt due to marxism. Hey Thom, you dumb-ass, Obama's healthcare doesn't take effect for another 4 years after we've been paying for it now? So much for your sorry argument. Gotta love you ignorant liberals.

[MonOpinion1701]

@bpentium As far as I know, maxism is not in effect in the US. And how many people go banckrupt or lose their home because of high health bills ? In Canada, that number is "0".

[FightinSwedeFR]

Everyone says they've got nothing to gain when it comes to keeping healthcare the way it is, except they all do. If it gets reformed and the new system works, then they were wrong.

So long as they want to appear to have forethought, it's in their best interests to try and keep healthcare reform from passing.

I think it comes from the politics here in America where stubbornness is considered a virtue and anyone who will admit that they were wrong is labeled a flip-flopper.

[rrp1973]

Life expectancy issue.

1) US has high murder rate

2) and a stagering auto accident death rate

There are many factors that go into life expectancy. You cannot lay it at the door of health care.

[whalenbrowne]

@rrp1973

....And Costa Rica doesn't have cars and murder?

Even if that were true, the life expectancy stats are almost all attributed to natural deaths or illness.

[rrp1973]

Yes. I am sure Costa Rica has plenty of murder and auto accidents. I gave these as examples because they are clear cases of death that no health care system can have any impact on. There are many other such factors and they can often vary greatly between countries. Looking at life expectancy alone and not taking these other factors into account is a very crude way of measuring health care quality.

[rrp1973]

I am not sure why you chose Costa Rica as your example. The stats I read from different sources vary from a .6 year advantage for Costa Rica to a .7 year advantage for USA. Maybe you should use Japan in your arguments. They have a life expectancy of 82. What an amazing health care system they must have!

[whalenbrowne]

I replied to wrong person, someone below had written:

"Longevity measure lots of things that have nothing to do with the quality of health care: deaths in war, automobile accidents, gun deaths, etc., which Costa Rica doesn't have". This is simply not true. I will admit that looking at longevity is not a very good way to look at healthcare quality unlesss you're looking at a place with NO healthcare, then it becomes pretty apparent. The worse the healthcare system, the more impact it has.

[Mastertj987]

The U.S healthcare system is rated 37, below Costa Rica. And whats more, the U.S has a high Infant Mortality Rate (its ranked 46 on the CIA World Factbook or 33 on the UN scale).

[bpentium]

Yeah, and what you will see is a dramatic reduction in the number of physicians. Look at Canada, England and Germany! They have 35% fewer practicing physicians now, than they had before they went to socialized medicine; but, 50% more PEOPLE who need medical care! Yep, socialized medicine is alright! Ranks right up there with every other stupid, incompetent thing the Demobastards have dreamed up!

[SparwoodApple]

Actually the US has far below the OECD average for number of practicing doctors .The decline in Doctors in Canada in the 90's did not correalate with the introduction of our current health system as that took place in the 80's - if anything after the introduction there was an increase in doctors.

[bpentium]

I'm around the military medical systems and they SUCK!!

[bpentium]

Libutards just can't stop talking about Sarah Palin. I hope she becomes the next president.

[MrTabby5000]

in your dreams.

[bpentium]

In your realities. You probably believe in global warming too. Liberals are such lemmings. They'll follow each other over the cliff.

[MrTabby5000]

I believe that the sun warms the earth,you can call it what you want,but its factual.

And conservatives should stop bringing religion into government because even God doesnt like that,as he is showing the party by cleaning it out of the government.

We baby killing,homo loving ,bible banning liberals are winning.

No prayer in schools,amen or awoman.

[bpentium]

Just think about how many people will die and go bankrupt under ObamaCare? that's if they aren't in jail or fined for not having Obamacare.

[jlmadill]

I'm Canadian and I'm very happy with our health care. To listen to this American debate, it just boggles my mind. Who the Christ in their right mind would choose what Americans have now verses what could be possible? Just, boggles the mind...

[FightinSwedeFR]

Wealthy people aren't as worried about people dying as they are about being slightly less wealthy.

[rrp1973]

How do you define wealthy? Find me a super wealthy person that does not give significant amounts to charity.

There are principals involved here. It is not always about greed. There are plenty of billionaire socialists and working class right wingers.

[Whatchagonado]

Oh my christ how in the hell does this guy have a job? He's a freemarket fellow?

He just argued that American war deaths in iraq have a statistical impact on our overall life expectancy as a country.

I mean what in the fuck!

[mircoalexander]

This Thom Hartman is one decent guy. Who is that corporate whore Gainor anyway?

[lisabob22]

he is a corporate whore and full of lies

[HarveyRex23]

When it comes to the "privatized price gauging for profit health insurance cartel". Commercial interests always comes before human concerns. It's time to have "single payer" health care for all. I'm tired of hearing horror stories of people losing their homes to foreclosure, people having to file for bankruptcy, and folks living a life time of financial ruin because they can't keep up with their exorbitant medical bills and unpaid medical debts.

[320iguy]

yeah this was Nixon's baby back in the late 70's. Nixon if your reading these comments got F*CK YOURSELF!!!!

[320iguy]

I know when Thom got of the air he was like WTF is that idiot talking about!

i can't believe there were actual Canadians bitching about there health care. I mean you don't miss it until it's gone i guess...

[myskoxe2000]

Shouldnt the states solve their own problem before being "police fo the world". Well the government in the states impress me. it dont care of or for the people and yet the average american will gladly shoot anyone that say that USA SUCKS. lol

[julsHz]

For- profit driven health care is the antithesis of health driven care. As long as it is more profitable to deny insurance, coverage, or payment for care, people will continue to die for lack of health driven care. There are so many things wrong with Gainor's argument, starting with Congress trying to mess up a 'viable system'. As it stands the current system is unsustainable with premiums rising at ~ 10% a year. How is this viable.

Public option, please.

[320iguy]

yeah, watch SickO. by Micheal Moore. i don't particularly care for him, but that one really drove it home for the "American Health Care Plan"

[julsHz]

Google PBS Bill Moyer Wendell Potter interview- Potter worked for Cigna for almost 20 yrs. He lays out tactics and strategies employed by insurance companies to satisfy Wall Street (by higher premiums and less coverage) and how they 'radicalized' Moore, whom they feared. btw Potter believes Moore "hit the nail on the head" with SickO- and so do I.

Thanks for your reply.

[lisabob22]

thanks for the info,

[ebeatworld]

@320iguy

It drove home for you because you are a fool. Are you going to pay for it? Am I?

[320iguy]

@ebeatworld no i have more info on the health care situation here then you think bud, the American health care "system" is bullshit cause you only have it if your employer pays for some of it, or if you have a large enough income to supplement it on your own. As for "paying" for it yeah i have no problem having some of my taxes ghelping my fellow human beings. Why wouldn't i? i already pay for the niggers that take advantage of welfare and my son has CHiP so whats the difference?

[ebeatworld]

@320iguy This is my problem: someone may be willing to pay for other people's healthcare. That's fine. But I want to choose whom I want to subsidize. It's not fair to force people to pay into a bureaucracy which decides whom to give it to.  I choose not to subsidize lazy people. Isn't that my right?

It's also unfair because you have a small percentage of people who have to pay a ridiculous tax rate to pay for this. I know some of these people. They are not swimming in money.

[320iguy]

@ebeatworld don't you know that you already pay for welfare users to get health care? or did you miss that in my last comment? also i would rather be able to pay into the health care provider that is going to be the most competitive with there rates and now they cant tell little Timmy that he is going to die from brain cancer because his parents health care company dropped them. i think that alone is worth it.

[ebeatworld]

@320iguy If little Timmy is so important, why don't you donate your own private money to the families in need? The problem is you proponents of this don't really pay the insane taxes a lot of people I know do.

Do you want your tax dollars paying for people that choose to live very unhealthy lives, people who smoke, are obese, and don't exercise? Do you want to pay for doctor's visits for people who run to the doctor over a slight fever?

This will be overly burdensome on the taxpayers.

[320iguy]

@ebeatworld "tax dollars paying for people that choose to live very unhealthy lives"

do you understand that a hospital will NOT place you on the organ donor list for a lung or heart if you are "high risk"? do you know that if you are a heavy drug user like Heroin you will not qualify for a liver transplant organ? these are things that YOU must know about the medical profession before you start thinking things up out of ignorance. i had to see these things for myself. i once thought like you....

[ebeatworld]

@320iguy Dude, it's not just about organ transplants. I don't remember the last time I went to the doctor, because I live a healthy life. But many people I know go to the doctor all the time because they eat unhealthy, don't exercise, drink, do drugs, etc. These people will cost the taxpayers a ton of money. Is the government going to turn down their care?

This is where the problem lies. The government then has to make decisions for people other than them making them for themselves.

[320iguy]

@ebeatworld ok well Antibiotics are cheap and the doctors office only cost me ( without insurance) $60 USD so really what skin is it off your back, or mine for that matter? find another reason to not have a universal health care, that i would consider to be reasonable, doctor office visits are not going to kill us. maybe your 10 year old daughter doesn't NEED a cell phone? maybe you don't really NEED a 2500 RAM pick up for weekend traveling?

[ebeatworld]

@320iguy That's what I would tell many people who say they can't afford it. I know personally a couple families who don't have health insurance, but they have a pretty nice house, cell phone... lot's of stuff. Is it fair to stick the taxpayer with the bill because they choose not to buy it? It's a personal choice.

Going to the doctor is not 60 bucks. Just seeing a doctor is so much more expensive than that.

What skin is off my back? Why should I pay for your antibiotics?

[320iguy]

@ebeatworld your an asshole .

and the reason you would pay for my antibiotics is because i would pay for you heart (since apparently you dont have one)

:P

[ebeatworld]

@320iguy Maybe it would benefit society if the public would pay for you liberals to have brain transplants. Apparently you don't have one of those.

[320iguy]

@ebeatworld LOL well you seem like such a nice guy too. well since all you have left are insults ill just declare this a case of you just not having a large enough vocabulary to keep up with the conversation.

Tax that rich they have the money!!!!

[ebeatworld]

@320iguy "since all you have left are insults"? Why don't you look a couple comments down. Do you recall just today saying "Your an asshole.... I would pay for your heart since (apparently you don't have one)."

I'm not the one who resorted to personal attacks, buddy. I was just responding to yours.

And you seem like a real nice guy, as well. You are very generous with other people's money. "Tax that [sic] rich." What gives you the rights to steel anybody's money away from them?

[trickertricks]

the other thing is that 1st world countries have people with Bigger egos than people of other countries. that is because they are raised think "they are the BEST"

untill people learn exactly how the ego Works... found in "THESE SIMPLE HUMANS".... then people will NOT be able to have complete control over their ego.... "if U dont know the Exact Mechanics U just cant Drive it effectively"...

wat im talkin about is human behaviour... Not shit found in Religious teachings..

[trickertricks]

this is how it Really is.....

Modern Civilized ppl are ALL egoDriven. the Higher a person is in the pecin order the BiGGER the ego. the Bigger the ego. the more the person want to Excercise "Control over others n sorroundings and claim superiority over others n sorroundings". this is all Huge egoHeads giv a fuk about. NOT about people. they care ONLY to make more money to be able to exercise Control n claim Supperiority over others.

Plain n Simple....

[randyguitarman13]

The Medicare Part D loophole for drug companies is just going to be expanded under a government system!

[kubscor]

WRONG! Part D will be fixed under a govt system.

[randyguitarman13]

HA!

EEEEHHH! WRONG!

[TwoStepBilly]

The caller makes bizarre challenges. Bordering on absurdities. The Canadians per capita have lost more in Afghanistan than anyone. UK and US included. About 30 percent more. Yet still have a higher life expectancy. Canada is also the worlds foremost consumer of fat-laden donuts and sugar-heavy slurpees. They smoke and drink with best of them, sitting sedentary through long winters. Talk about excess. 1/3 of per capita health costs and longer lives, regardless. Hmmm.

[atripa645]

What does a shill sound like? A) 7:01

[greatbroad]

I think the only way to ensure the American People get a fair healthcare plan, is to mandate all Congress Members, etc. to have this plan.

If the Congress has problems w/plan they can fix it themselves-- while they are at the office. It is what they are paid to do: the people's work.

[teleutube]

You know for-profit health care as commodity model fails when...

A CEO of a health insurance company got stock options worth ONE BILLION EIGHT HUNDRED MILLIONS DOLLARS

and convicted of Medical billings fraud !

[allawayjared]

Single Payer Health Care just makes sense. People over profit.

[KingOfAllMorons]

I love Thom but I have to disagree with him on the longevity issue. Longevity measure lots of things that have nothing to do with the quality of health care: deaths in war, automobile accidents, gun deaths, etc., which Costa Rica doesn't have. Emergency rooms do take on people with primary needs and charge them way high. BUT Thom is 1000 percent that people are dying for lack of public insurance, private ins. is wasteful and single payer is more cost efficient. End of discussion!

[lisabob22]

Actually emergency rooms only treat people to a stable condition. Not primary care in any way shape or form. As for longevity issues, every country has all these same issues as America, so the life expectancy is a measurement of healthcare as is infant mortality, and mental health issues. 18,000 people a year is a low estimate.

[gareyt17]

Let me get this straight......Hartman thinks we can provide "preventive" care to 50 million more of us...keeping in mind IF you tried to implement this more of those already insured would go more often too...

But he thinks we can do this and SAVE money?

Where does he intend to get all these extra doctors?

This is hysterical

[solvecoagule]

The private insurance companies give huge compensation, billions, to their top management. They also employ armies of bean counters to scrutinize claims and deny benefits. Not just unreasonable claims, but any claim they can possibly get away with denying. Why? So they can please Wall Street.

Removing obscene executive compensation and removing the need to provide shareholder profit to Wall Street would remove the motivation to screw you out of your benefits when you need them. Straight?

[123BDG123]

Jesus Christ! This is all the opponents can muster. This Gainor is a goddamn idiot.

[JH335163]

Dan Gainor seems to have his head stuck up his ass. He doesn't get it, does he?

[PeterOrszagCallMe]

I get the feeling that a lot of the guests Thom has on his show have never actually faced anyone who knows the facts before. Gainor keeps raising the idea that somehow just the thought of govt run programs should strike terror--but I think most people nowadays would rather have the security of the public option rather than the profit-driven private companies.

[TheFloridaPappy]

@PeterOrszagCallMe I think most people would rather have the government provide them a nice house, nice car, vactations, spending cash, etc, but that is not the function of government. Just because most people want something doesn't mean the government should, or has the authority, to do it.

[PeterOrszagCallMe]

Gainor works for T Boone--so I'm sure he has great insurance and never actually has to relate to the real world.

[Jsickert]

Hmmm. is the problem health care, or is it just that Americans are less active and consume more high fructose corn syrup and fried foods? It's not the system alone, its our lifestyles, when that is considered our health system is actually pretty good.

[patient0Studios]

Your right about the mainstream diet but that in no way vindicates yourhorrible system.

[Jsickert]

I didn't make it, so it isn't mine, its what I'm stuck with just like you. Personally I'm for eliminating insurance all together and force the doctors and pharmaceuticals into pure competition.

[julsHz]

Lifestyle is in the hands of the individual, health care is not. While lifestyle may affect how often one must rely on the system, relating the two like this doesn't discount the fact that the system we have opts for allowing people to die rather than treating them because it might affect the almighty bottom line. It would be criminal not to try and correct this if we have the chance.

[Jsickert]

When the overall life span expectancy between us and every country you claim has better health care is only a difference of 3 years, lifestyle is very much a factor.

[julsHz]

I'm not sure why you credit me with commenting on other countrys' health care systems; I didn't. But I did take issue with your statement that ours is 'pretty good' given our crappy habits; It isn't. It might be pretty good if it was based on care and not on profit; Again, it isn't. And I could do a lot of living in 'only' 3 years; I'll take it.

[manicmetropolis]

people will dies no matter what system we have!

[killerbandit]

It is all about the quality. Right now the quality is horrible if you don't have $10,000-$100,000 floating around for medical expenses.