Just reviewed the entire debate. Schiff was cut off at 9:49, 14:32,18:58, 25:25, and 29:40. Henwood was never cut off. Just spewing rhetoric. This is one of the worst one sided debates I have ever seen and Schiff still mopped the floor with Henwood. You just cant argue with Austrian economics. You dont work, you dont eat. And I have unsubscribed.
Yea, after watching this a second time, I started to notice all of the edits on peters responses. I was going to give a donation to The Real News for hosting this debate, but now that I realize how fucking biased they were in editing the content, they can go fuck themselves.
Real News, stop trying to promote taxes, and just give us information to make up our own minds. Be a fucking news network, not another biased propaganda machine.
wow he says lets assume printing money is inflationary?? increasing the total money money supply without the natural increase in supply n demand devaules the dollar wich makes costs higher ...inflation
@bjarnet3 Peter Schiff can not "save" the wealth of the poor because they don't have any. The amount of wealth the poor and middle class accumulate during their life time is miniscule compared to the upper class hence the need for the middle class to obtain a mortgage to pay for a house.
@Pinkybum Educate people so that they invest in real things... Not U.S currency (because it is going down)... Preserve their purchasing power!!!
Peter has said this since 2002,, just look back for yourself... Do you think he wanted to bring out the bad news,,,, do you think he enjoy telling bad news.. If People,, rich and poor did what peter was saying,, they would be in much better shape today...
What do you suggest they should do? Please tell me,, and why you think that is a good idea...
@ric0rich What were you watching?! Did you watch the entire thing? If anything Schiff showed himself fo the dilettante & charlatan that he is. More often than not he simply didn't know what was being talked about (didn't know the relevant material- stats etc) & resorted to the tired old phrasebook of right wing pet hates & associated rhetoric! Your comment is laughable.......
@bbburton How so? I think there is an older & more compelling case that the capitalist, ie one who enjoys returns to property (ie the fruits of other's labour!), is the real crook!
If you want a stable pro growth economy you engineer high value into the jobs created.
To operate human internactions have to be ALLOWED to come to FREE critical mass in providing the energy and investments required to operate. And having gov't create, run, regulate and command the market economy will not work this has already been proven in old Soviet-Eastern Europe-East Germany-communist third world model.
.
Reality is old HYPERCAPITALIST & SOCIALIST crony economies won't work anymore !!
Great! Thanks Paul for bringing on Schiff and having this debate. Guys like Mr. Henwood need to factor in the real factors of economics. You can raise rates sure but that eventually WILL lead to inflation. And employers ARE real people looking to profits and have to have incentives to hire. Same with moral hazard. It exists for top banks and for low-income folks. I agree with compassion for the needy but economics is about how people WILL (whether we like it or not) react concerning money.
These types of debates are so frustrating to listen to. Inflation is the expansion of the money supply.... NOT rising prices. To conclude that there is no inflation based on prices is stupid. In fact, prices not rising, in the face of the expansion of our monetary base, shows that the gov't is interfering all it can to keep those prices down. The fact that commodities (which gov't cannot control) are soaring, point to the consumer prices rising as soon as this gov't interference wears off
"Peter Schiff warned about this many, many years ago. In thousands of interviews"... Yes and so did several other individuals. Who don´t belong to the top 2 riches procent in the US... ;-)
@Smulan45 You said that Peter only talks for the rich... Peter is warning about a total collapse in the US dollar... He is trying to save the wealth of everybody,, especially the poor...
It is the middle class and the poor that is going to suffer the most from Obama/Bernanke's inflationary collapse...
Most of the people who create jobs,, go bankrupt.. But if you tax them,, they might not take that risk,,, especially in a inflationary environment...
I am watching the full video, and this leftist guy is depraved. His remarks reek of complete violation of free, natural, and productive action, of shoving guns in people's faces and stripping them of their wealth, shooting them in he knee if they refuse, and shooting them in the head if they defend themselves. Its the tradition of Mao and Lenin, and today of Bush and Obama.
He buys into the false paradigm that Republicans are free marketers when they as just socialist as Democrats.
Have all of you been watching the same debate? Schiff is just WAY OFF. The US has more regulation then China, wages are determined by productivity and the unemployed are just lazy? Nonsense, if wages were determined by productivity then why does a bus driver in India not earn the same wage as a bus driver in Sweden? Indian trafic is pretty awful, dodging cows requires skill, you would expect the bus driver in India to make a lot more money seeing as he has more 'human capital' so to speak.
Actual government spending has not significantly expanded because contraction at the state level has offset stimulus and other temporary federal spending. The deficit has risen due to a decline in revenues, not due to runaway spending.
having just finished watching the debate, I think Schiff is much more clued in BUT I personally have seen, and contributed to, the increase in productivity without any increase in wages to match, and being told flat out no such increases will happen. When asked about further work in a new department which which the NORMAL METRIC is 1.7x efficiency of "normally just one person" and NO increase in pay I flat out said "no dice: more work = more pay or I quit if you try to force me there"
@ytgv3fc7 one thing I would ask of those CEO type that say that productivity didn't grow... "HOW the hell YOUR salary growth ?" if not by increase profit/productivity
"and don't fool yourself by thinking it's all your contribution"
@moestietabarnak exactly. Now with some cases I think it would be the case: Peter Schiff no doubt offers great direction and knowledge to many people so I have no doubt he pulls serious weight in EuroPacific capital. But for many corporations I have no doubt their near-top and middle-management are losers and top management may also be losers. Workers need to unite to demand proper wage increases for actual productivity increases OR refuse to add productivity and be ready to move on.
Could they have editied it enough. Im sure in the real interview Peter handed both of them their asses. Im off to unsubscribe to the "Real News". What a joke.
@EMPIRE0FLIES go unsubscribe already. the interview was very balanced in the 30 min version and Schiff did indeed talk down the other guy appropriately most of the time (not on productivity, wages or admission of Chinese slavery wages - Schiff loses on those points). Arguing with Paul Jay didn't happen harshly and isn't supposed to. He's trying to help them show US things we ought to know.
@ytgv3fc7 Minimum-Wage laws do to jobs what Price-Control do to food,,, It creates Shortages... If you force up wages on already struggling industries, they at best move to another area or at worst go out of business...
What enables businesses to pay higher wages is Capital. Instead of hammers they get Nail Guns,,, instead of spades they get excavators.
Many low paying jobs end up high paying,, BUT THESE LOW PAYING JOBS IS NOT CREATED ANYMORE,,,
@bjarnet3 min wage protects people from being murdered by capitalism, and price controls for food is a good thing, not a bad thing. The opposite is called murder.
Only slave-masters and the most evil people TRULY WANT removal of minimum wage. It would mean the hardest worker could never afford more than 1 meal per day and that's a fact. It's evil.
@bjarnet3 actually I want to dispell a shortage myth right now. The biggest lie in the world's history of economics is that price controls cause shortages. It's untrue now and forever.
Capitalism causes shortages. Something critical like clean air, water or food in nature but NOT RARE is something we can pay almost nothing for and live JUST FINE.
Capitalism is the process by which this is destroyed to cause shortages DELIBERATELY because without this, no price can exist.
@bjarnet3 so if we can abolish the most dangerous uses of capitalism before it's too late, we can abolish shortages because those shortages only exist because of the capitalist incentive to lie, cheat, steal, and destroy so that something needed badly is made rare, even though BEFORE capitalism there was no such rarity nor would there be whatsoever.
@ytgv3fc7Yes, with all that editing, very balanced. Obviously Jay has a black agenda and is probably getting paid. He wouldnt have survived without dirty money!
@EMPIRE0FLIES not even close. Schiff got to say his say and they both tried to cut each other off. Paul Jay is supposed to try and keep order so it doesn't become a CNBC shouting match like Schiff is used to. Look even when he gets cut off he gets a lot of good information out there but he could talk for hours and hours and it's not his show. He doesn't even push his own youtube videos to 15 min, sticks to 10, so what's the complaint.
@devilmirror1 Lmfao are you serious man? Watch the whole damn debate and you let me know who has a logical argument. This is a 2 vs. 1 debate. I hope your saying that in defense of peter schiff. And IF you are then I'm sorry about saying all this. lol
@devilmirror1 Good, because the less people listen to that guy, the better.
Personally, I would like to see him investigated for a class action lawsuit of fudiciary.
He was wrong about Europe decoupling from the world, and leading the pack. He was wrong about China decoupling from the US. He was wrong about interest rates, thus, he was wrong about Treasuries. He was MOST DEFINITELY wrong about risk control procedures, and yes, he WILL be wrong about Hyperinflation. He got one thing right. One
@AirelonTrading Strange, because my portfolio went up more than 60% in the past two years by listening to his advice. Anyway, I like it when people distrust him since I can make more money that way.
I'm up 80% in ONE year ... with trades (before, during and after) as well as long term investments public in front of everyone as they happened in real-time
@devilmirror1 Schiff is a flash in the pan. I've been doing this for 14 years, and will do it for another 14. While you enjoyed annualized 30% for the brief time period this guy has gotten popular? Come see me again in another 14 years.
In fact, I'm meeting with someone in about two hours who wanted to talk with me, and if I'm not mistaken ... he's lost money hand over foot because he listened to Mr. "There is no chance I'm wrong - Zero Risk Control" Schiff
@AirelonTrading lol, I'm happy as long as I meet my investment goal with my current risk tolerance level. If you know something special and can beat the market that much, good for you. I believe in Austrian economics people such as Ron Paul, Tom Woods, and Schiff. They let me know how government destroys the US dollar and where should I hedge against that.
Yeah, during the next 14 years, if you were as famous & successful as these people, I might discover you. So, get lost for now will ya?
@devilmirror1 Actually? I work my hardest at turning people like you away. I haven't turn down offer after offer year after year so I could try to pimp myself on YT to people such as yourself. Doing what I do publicly has been for free, has been public, and I do my best to keep the populist crowd away. I don't need your attention, and nor do I want it. Revel in your anger. The last thing I want? Is folks such as yourself following anything I'm doing.
dan / airelontrading has revealed himself publicly for years. but like most truly intelligent people he covets neither fame nor attention. he just wants to help w/o any of the trappings of being public. and like many of us ...he cant stand whiners
I know someone like this as well. I think Peter makes sense in general but I listen to other sources as well. Don't hang on his every word. When he speaks and tries also to provide a solution for poverty showing compassion for the poor is when I listen. Also he may be in the top 2 percent but I think he's at the bottom rung. I think the really wealthy don't own SMALL businesses. Also if the government is going to bail out folks it should just straight up tax the rich, instead of borrowing.
@TheElMoIsEviL Hyper schmyper. Okay. The Fed and Treasury leveraged up roughly 11 trillion dollars to buy shit nobody else would. That mean zero dollars worth of shit became worth 11 trillion dollars. If it hadn't, everything else would be priced about zero as well. That's some pretty steep inflation.
Schiff is equal parts incongruous & incorrigible, a nut. Henwood is equal parts bemused & annoyed at Sciff's antics. Schiff really needs to do more research & leave that Austrian lead weight or dead wood behind. I really can't believe his performance here, & right wingers actually look up to this dilettante.
@Bigmartinno1 I cant believe people still say things like right or left winger. Who gives a shit, we all bleed the same. That kind of talk causes nothing but division. When you spend your time fighing over which side you want to be on, the people that run things continue to conquer.
@Bigmartinno1 Well, if you think about any sort of possition, political, religious, capital or others it is nothing more but a personal believe. If you keep the gov to a minimum, with very limited power, nothing more but support for individual states, it does not matter who's running the office this term or the next.
@tomasz3421 Then why keep Gov to a minimum? Politics needs to be reinvigorated, democracy broadened & deepened. There is severe difficulty in doing this under the present system of property relations. Indeed, most of the intellectual Godfathers of the modern Right, including Von Mises & Hayek among others, spent their days devising ways in which to progessively limit democracy in the interests of those with capital.
@Bigmartinno1 Honestly Schiff leave the pet hates & related rhetoric at home. It helps to actually know the material. Then you might not end up looking like such a rabid fool.
The tax debate is just a waist of time. If we keep spending like we are taxing every single one of us regardless including top 2% even as high as 85% will still not service the national debt, not metioning the shortage for penstion and medicare.
I can't believe I had the patience to liste to Schiff BS that long. Schiff's only argumnet is to talk over top of the other guy and he has his long list of well rehearse sound bites.
I seriously doubt that his personal income is being taxed 50%. He is counting the taxes paid by his corporation as personal taxes but not counting the corp income as personal income. If he wants to do that he should do business as a sole proprietorship.
Schiff tea bags in his brain! He produces nothing!
What doesn't make sense is why the left keynesians complain all day about wall street CEO's and then propose increasing taxes on the top 2 percent of society. COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL. Those walls treet crooks are not top 2 percent, they are more like TOP .1 or top .3 percent. In effect, keynesians want to tax small businesses, doctors, lawyers - people who DIDN'T do anything wrong.
WHere is the logic!? If u must tax, tax the top .3 percent not the top 2 percent - they are the ones causing probs
The federal funds rate does not give a reliable prediction for hyperinflation. As long as credit card interest is high, then we won't see hyperinflation. The last thing we need is a credit binge.
American jobs are not coming back anytime soon. No magic policy can fix that right now because no policy can magically allow the Chinese to spend like Americans beyond their means.
@TheElMoIsEviL Your arguments are completely absurd and contrary to what Peter Schiff advocates. Stop lying. Link the video where he said we would be in hyperinflation in 2010. Link the video where he said that China will pull the plug in 2010.
Peter said that if the US government continues to print money they will eventually go into hyperinflation like germany. Never did he give a date. Peter said that China SHOULD drop the USD, but never a date. Gold prices? still going up. You're full of BS
imho, the issue isn't just creating jobs, it's creating jobs with livable wages. you can deregulate all you want, but at the end of the day, businesses are going to go where they can get the highest profit margin. if they find cheaper labor, lower taxes, and less regulation overseas, they won't hesitate to go there. but that doesn't mean it's in the general public's best interests to compete with those countries that are more business friendly because business-friendly != public welfare.
@elnegrobembon thats why tariffs were in place to make American products cheaper than outsourced. tariffs and subsidies are what our country was founded on. the subsidies have been corrupted though by giving them to corps that outsource. ask fringeelements this and he won't understand what the f--k you are talking about because he's an idiot when it comes to economics.
Japan is not very relevant here. Japan experienced deflation because their stimulus largely comes from their government borrowing money from SOLVENT Japanese citizens. They are solvent because of their high trade surpluses. Thus such borrowing causes relatively fewer problems than it would in a debt-soaked nation like the US. Also the Japanese attitude toward housing has changed since their bubble. They expect house prices to go down, not up, forbidding another Japanese housing bubble.
Whats retarded is the agenda for taxing the top 2 percent when its only the top something like 1 or .5 percent that is benefiting from our system. People making between 200,000 to 700,000 are your doctors, lawyers, small business owners. They aren't the hedge fund managers, CEO's. I still don't understand why people on the left want to tax these people, who don't get the corporate welfare. These people help society a great deal and worked their butts off in college. Why do they deserve this?
@mak2675 because they got a free ride in the last decades. their effective taxes rate got under that of the lower class. check warren buffet quote about his secretary.
you talk about doctors, and we talk about those wall street golden boy, that get millions in bonus, they could work their ass off 16 hours a day, that stgill wouldnt justify it. compared to people that have hard meeting ends with 3 jobs!
you failed to answer my question and so far every left wing person has. This was my challenge to all of you:
Im asking why the left proposes increasing taxes on the top 2 % when only the .3 or .5 percentile are the ones that deserve it. The top 2 % includes doctors, lawyers, small businesses. They don't deserve being taxed more. The top .3 or .5 % include your wall street golden boys that you rail all day about.
you failed to answer my question and so far every left wing person has. This was my challenge to all of you:
Im asking why the left proposes increasing taxes on the top 2 % when only the .3 or .5 % are the ones that deserve it. The top 2 % includes doctors, lawyers, small businesses. They don't deserve being taxed more. The top .3 - .5 % include your wall street golden boys that you rail all day about.
Im saying only increase taxes on THEM, the top .3-.5 %(if anything)
@mak2675 told ya! Because, to a lesser extend, they DID get a free ride, yes the lawer and the doctor too, they get undeserved taxes cut. they gain was smaller, but it was still a gain. and notes that we don't say "confiscate everything" we say taxes them as fairly as the middle-class is taxed. like the bush's taxes cut disappearing would affect your lawer making 300k.. ONLY on the 50k over 250k not a big burden when you consider the debt etc. while other just don't have jobs and losing house.
@mak2675 and like the other warning we get like "taxes them too much and they will move". I'd like to see a doctor or a lawer leave and try to practice in another country. I doubt many could keep they high salary there (if even they could find a jobs, lawer would have to retrain to a whole new set of law etc)
"retain a new set of laws". LOL. That doesn't take away that its unfair for them to be taxed that much in the first place. And btw did u know the average debt for doctors is something like 300k-400k out of med school?
Doctors making 500k a year pay nearly half their money in taxes+insurance. Same situation as big multimillionaires. ANd you're saying we should bring em up to middle class? You have your facts way off. The middle class does not get taxes nearly that much!
the point is you cannot argue from a social justice standpoint that the 200k-700k bracket has, on the whole, done anything to deserve being taxed more. They contribute and don't take from society.
But thats exactly what the news portrays You see your bernie madoffs getting charged for fraud and then they start talking about: why not tax the top 2 percent? Those wall street clowns who scavenge society are WAY above top 2 percent! So quit pickin on the top 2% when its top .3!
@mak2675 that still leave 250k cash, and they can clear those debt in 4 years and live confortably on 150k ..fir the first 4years ! ..then they net 250k ! heck, doing that kind of money i could retire nicely after 10 years.
Now they asking for people to retire in the 70s,l to save money on something they paid for !
People are losing their house and you care to make 250k instead of 230 ?!
remember, people losing their and their jobs, mean less consumer to buy your product.
Until people understand what money really is and where it comes from, no recovery will come. Money is not pieces of paper or even gold. Money is a contractual obligation between producing men and women. Paper, silver, gold, zinc and copper are simply scarce items that allow these transactions to take place. When the money buys less, it sends a universal signal that the society is less productive and must save more. When the government interferes in money, it destroys this natural system.
@schulwitz Interesting term you use there, "natural system." Natural in what sense? I guess it comes down to whether you believe the economy should serve the needs of society; or whether society should subsume it's needs for the good of the "natural system" however one defines that, of the economy.
Natural system because without any govt agency people still assign value to things. It happens freely, in every transaction, no need for any laws, just people acting and choosing what they themselves think is "right".
@asperin So is this "natural system" you refer to purely economic in nature or does it extend to the social sphere as well. What is people freely choose (in the absence of a formal governmental structure) to devise a norm or rule that would help govern their future transactions (be they social or economic). Further, what if there is a dispute as to what is "right" as you put it. How would the dispute be resolved, would force be permitted in it's resolution, if not, why not?
The economy is what shapes society and society shapes the economy. Civilization means constant business.
Disputes can be resolved in courts, not necessarily by the monopolized court system owned by the State. But if you must have govt running the courts at least have that and nothing else, nothing like all the regulations and taxation that go beyond dispute resolution, which is exactly what we have today and to what we oppose, govt deeply involved in commerce.
Please read my description again. It's a "natural system" in the sense that barring interference, money buys more with increased productivity and less with decreased productivity. Do you disagree with the premise that this is the "natural system" of money?
.
If so, how is it possible to sustain an economy if money buys more with decreased productivity? You'll encounter shortages (See 2007 housing crash).
.
This, incidentally, is exactly why the economy will continue to tank.
Peter Schiffster need to stfu and let the keynesian speak. only government intervention saved the world from economic collapse. but unfortunately it went to the bankers instead of the people. US government need to give free money to small and medium businesses and break up monoplies.
@mrzack888 - you make it sound like they made a simple mistake in giving the trillions to the bankers. There was no mistake, It was a calculated worldwide coordinated raid on us, to pay them. they don't want small and medium businesses to succeed. We have to understand they are gangsters and the politicians are their front-men. The only thing that was 'saved' was the markets; we'll spend the rest of our lives paying for that bailout.
@mrzack888 LOL and the keynesian speaks delusional theories as usual. The US government should give free money to businesses? Where does the government get their "free" money? Nothing is free my friend. Snap out of keynesian dreamland and get into reality.
@mrzack888 Gah. Any power you give to a government, or anyone else, will be abused to do the very evils for which you gave them the power to save you from. How many centuries of proof do you people need? You want to talk about monopolies, government is the middle man in all of them, government makes it legal. SEC, FDIC, CFTC, FCC, etc...
@666norton420 He/She/It said, "only government intervention saved the world from economic collapse". My comment was mostly rhetorical of course, If it added anything, given the forum and the participants, it would be this.. HEY! You see this guy? Shock Doctrine: 1 -- Us: 0.
PEter shiff was rly smart predicting the crisis, about the only one who did. But now that hes in politics he's retarded, talking just in function of rep vs dem
@Mendelevium146 "PEter shiff was rly smart predicting the crisis, about the only one who did."
oh wow, do you not have a clue....
MANY saw it coming... just none who appeared on tv. :)
80% of the businesses on Money Market's "red list" in 05 are no more. they had several sources across the industry that felt the same as they... shit was coming...
then there's all the regular people who just payed attention and saw things falling apart. if i wasn't surprised, no one in the biz should've been.
@666norton420 hey mr.666, if so many rich people saw it coming then would have happened as they all sell their assets, thats how economy works :)
The fact is no one really saw it coming. Stock markets values represent what people think is going to happen in the mid future, if everyone knew it would crash then all market would have gone undervalued. And yes there are these people(perhaps like you?) who have been calling a crash every day for decades(paranoia) and want merit when it actually does
@Mendelevium146 Many saw it coming. I saw it and sold -all- of my equity holdings in 9/2007. If you were paying attention, especially in 1999 (Gramm Leach Bliley act), in 2000 (Commodity Futures Modernization Act ), and in 2004 (SEC leverage exemptions), you'd have seen that the "crisis" was inevitable. In fact, it was intentional.
@WGS669 I love that, after it happens everyone says they saw it coming all the way cause they are so smarter, yet before the crash no sign of equities value decreasing due to that, weird!
@Mendelevium146 Everyone saw it coming? No. I did. People I know did. Most did not. That's how bubbles work, they are inflated with ignorance. Unless you are somwhat educated in finance and/or economics, you likely did not know those laws were even passed, much less what was in them or the consequences. You certainly were not going to be alerted by mass media. All you knew was you bought a house and a car and that your 401k was awesome.
@WGS669 eh, anyways, I just thought funny how everyone says what you said that they were smarter than everyone but in fact very few actually did. I am assuming in your superiority you still have all your assets out of the market by fear of another, bigger crash, like peter shiff? I bet all this time not making profits makes up for what you saved by selling everything before the crash. Anyways, let's hope you are shiff are wrong this time!
@Mendelevium146 I'm not the typical Schiff groupie. I listen to him, but through a filter. I do not invest in any way similar to him. His warnings have merit. The reasoning behind his forecasts is sound. Where he and others in that camp fail is their inability to accept that extrordinary measures -will always- be taken to counter the things they warn about. My job is understanding how central bankers and politicians will act today, so that they can discredit guys like Schiff in the future.
@WGS669 that's exactly why for over 35 years fiat currency and delinkage of currency to gold/silver has crashed the economy. All because central bank system has created a gigantic mess. At least in Britain now they understand you can't keep following the same economic crap forever without cause massive financial harm to your own people's ability to operate a free fair market economy.
@jibbi4one See, I think the "mess" was and is the goal, actualy, the pentultimate goal. It allowed the empire to expand and achieve the domination needed to ultimately put it all in one "legal" body. The thing is, it will still be fiat, fractional, and central planned, only far more coordinated. Technology (data collection) has caught up with their plans, now it's only a matter of time, gradually adapting new laws via a series of shocks and governmental responses.
@WGS669 "It allowed the empire to expand and achieve the domination needed to ultimately put it all in one "legal" body." Yea, like the EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Hollywood stuff.
Old economy is done, over, stick a fork in it-its done.
OLD HYPERCAPITALISAM is done it's time now we use MINARCHISAM to build with. State structure Keynes is dead. Alan Greenspan FED now working for a hedge fund in NYC its strongest position is GOLD.
I listen to the guy that employs 100 people not 3 people part time.
@jibbi4one I would have thought for most hypercapitalism is synonymous with minarchism. Moves towards minarchism undertaken over the last 30yrs, if anything, at the very least, are implicated in our present predicament. I would also suggest that Keynes will prob make a heroic return, before the population totally boils over.
@Bigmartinno1 You're confusing MINARCHISAM an effective gov't structure w/ hypercapitalisam where business company crony gov't regulators 'look the other way' a common gov't ploy in modern times well lubricated with 'kick backs' funds in such fields as science, economy, industry, security. You read about in the news every freak'in day.
Subscribers to Keynes really are economists that eat there own vomit.
@jibbi4one Reread what I said, "Moves towards minarchism......". & please don't try to paint a picture in which the last 30yrs was not an era of deregulation.
Please point to an instance in which Minarchism was an effective govt structure.
Please point to an advocate of Keynes who eats his/her own vomit.
Everybody has a lot to learn, some more than others
@jibbi4one Just to be clear, the reason why most people see 'hypercapitalism' as of the same genus as minarchism is the deregulation & retreat of the State inherent in 'hypercapitalism'.
@Mendelevium146 Yeah everyone now claims they saw it coming. Post your portfolio if you saw it coming. If you're not heavily invested in commodities and precious metals you're full of shit.
@Mendelevium146 i didn't say everyone in the market knew what they were doing, most people are utter morons.
the point is, many respected people and institutions saw it coming, a lot were just so involved in the profit making, they didn't want to stop the party on their watch and not cash in too.
if you understand economics, it was rather easy to see the trouble coming.
it has nothing to do with constant "doom and gloom" sayers.
The argument that there is no inflation is very stupid. The monetary base, credit, and debt have been greatly expanded. This is inflation, rising prices are an eventual product of this. As Schiff said prices are in fact rising. Most commodities are going through the roof and my grocery bill has increased considerably, along with my rent, gasoline, and most living costs. In a debate you have to let both sides speak, and both Peter and Henwood cut each other off, moderator should moderate.
i thought this "news" channel was trying to bring something diff't to the table. seems like the same old cbs, nbc, abc, cnn, pbs, msnbc, etc. far left nonsense. and we wonder why no1 except the elderly get their news from the aforementioned networks.
typical self-avowed keynesians still clueless about economics. henwood even admitted that he doesn't have any full time employees. he knows nothing about jobs. i thought his answers were just a joke to mock keynesianism but he actually believes that nonsense. schiff was right and will continue to be right. too bad they hardly let him answer and edited most of it.
@ANTIDALLARD r u serious? go watch his videos starting back in 2002-2008. also, read his book "crashproof: how to profit from the coming economic collapse" published in feb. of 2007 and written in 05-06. in addition, watch the video entitled, "peter schiff was right' cnbc edition.
@Zakdayak it means that henwood has no clue about the actual real world effects of the policies that the's promoting. for ex. just look at his proposal for higher wages. that is the same policy we had during the great depression. all the same steps taken during the period r being followed now. 1st by bush and now by obama.
@Zakdayak "Higher wages mean less profits". Blind Profiteering kills economies.
Higher wages also mean less debt, education & reskilling affordable, things bought in the community. Regulation & tax can also put solar panels on all new buildings slashing energy costs for everyone.
Tax for High skill, education, health, low crime, is why Nth EU stays in the top league..
Robot engineers not cheap button pushers.
Cutting wages for profit also causes market collapse as nobody can afford to buy.
@marsCubed I agree with you. I was talking short term and to somebody else. I think short term corporate profits should take a back seat to other issues. I agree with everything you've said.
@herbal1971 -- DOLLAR was WORLD currency dumb ass that is WHY everyone is in shit wright now cause of DOLLAR , I am sorry but I have to say it.
aviomaster 11 months ago
That was a total waste of a video clip!
equsnarnd 1 year ago
Single world currency on its way.
herbal1971 1 year ago
Just reviewed the entire debate. Schiff was cut off at 9:49, 14:32,18:58, 25:25, and 29:40. Henwood was never cut off. Just spewing rhetoric. This is one of the worst one sided debates I have ever seen and Schiff still mopped the floor with Henwood. You just cant argue with Austrian economics. You dont work, you dont eat. And I have unsubscribed.
EMPIRE0FLIES 1 year ago 2
@EMPIRE0FLIES
Yea, after watching this a second time, I started to notice all of the edits on peters responses. I was going to give a donation to The Real News for hosting this debate, but now that I realize how fucking biased they were in editing the content, they can go fuck themselves.
Real News, stop trying to promote taxes, and just give us information to make up our own minds. Be a fucking news network, not another biased propaganda machine.
K thx.
:-)
TheCapitalistdog 1 year ago
wow he says lets assume printing money is inflationary?? increasing the total money money supply without the natural increase in supply n demand devaules the dollar wich makes costs higher ...inflation
hashishclay 1 year ago
@hashishclay LOL,, that is like saying... "Let's asume that putting water in your soda is deluding your soda"
Well printing money without production is making the money worth less... But there is a lagg,,, just like with the commodity prices there is a lagg...
First the price for materials is going up,, then all prices go up... First they expend the money supply,, then the money looses value..
You have to taste the soda before you know it is deluded with water..
bjarnet3 1 year ago
@bjarnet3 Peter Schiff can not "save" the wealth of the poor because they don't have any. The amount of wealth the poor and middle class accumulate during their life time is miniscule compared to the upper class hence the need for the middle class to obtain a mortgage to pay for a house.
Pinkybum 1 year ago
@Pinkybum Educate people so that they invest in real things... Not U.S currency (because it is going down)... Preserve their purchasing power!!!
Peter has said this since 2002,, just look back for yourself... Do you think he wanted to bring out the bad news,,,, do you think he enjoy telling bad news.. If People,, rich and poor did what peter was saying,, they would be in much better shape today...
What do you suggest they should do? Please tell me,, and why you think that is a good idea...
bjarnet3 1 year ago
Peter Schiff pwns these fools
Sivels 1 year ago
Schiff gave them a much needed harsh dose of reality. Unfortunately, I think they spit out the medicine.
TheCapitalistdog 1 year ago
Productivity and deflation is horrible, debt is good, printing can cure anything....
Deflation CAUSES depression (as opposed to being indicator of them).
I think we have heard all the BS before....
Keyguya 1 year ago
2 on1 and Schiff still wins
ric0rich 1 year ago
@ric0rich What were you watching?! Did you watch the entire thing? If anything Schiff showed himself fo the dilettante & charlatan that he is. More often than not he simply didn't know what was being talked about (didn't know the relevant material- stats etc) & resorted to the tired old phrasebook of right wing pet hates & associated rhetoric! Your comment is laughable.......
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
Paul Jay is a dyed-in-the-wool socialist. A crook by any other name.
bbburton 1 year ago
@bbburton How so? I think there is an older & more compelling case that the capitalist, ie one who enjoys returns to property (ie the fruits of other's labour!), is the real crook!
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
If you want a stable pro growth economy you engineer high value into the jobs created.
To operate human internactions have to be ALLOWED to come to FREE critical mass in providing the energy and investments required to operate. And having gov't create, run, regulate and command the market economy will not work this has already been proven in old Soviet-Eastern Europe-East Germany-communist third world model.
.
Reality is old HYPERCAPITALIST & SOCIALIST crony economies won't work anymore !!
jibbi4one 1 year ago
Great! Thanks Paul for bringing on Schiff and having this debate. Guys like Mr. Henwood need to factor in the real factors of economics. You can raise rates sure but that eventually WILL lead to inflation. And employers ARE real people looking to profits and have to have incentives to hire. Same with moral hazard. It exists for top banks and for low-income folks. I agree with compassion for the needy but economics is about how people WILL (whether we like it or not) react concerning money.
Quranite 1 year ago
Schiff is wrong on history, economics and political reality.
lizardgizard2002 1 year ago
More of this RN!!!
martinaoe2 1 year ago
These types of debates are so frustrating to listen to. Inflation is the expansion of the money supply.... NOT rising prices. To conclude that there is no inflation based on prices is stupid. In fact, prices not rising, in the face of the expansion of our monetary base, shows that the gov't is interfering all it can to keep those prices down. The fact that commodities (which gov't cannot control) are soaring, point to the consumer prices rising as soon as this gov't interference wears off
jjeeve5 1 year ago
@jjeeve5 whoever told you that!
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
Yes. Tax the rich.
And what a pig Peter Schiff is.
Didn´t know he was such a "freemarket"- guru-gready- pig.
This man belongs to the top 2 riches procent in the US and of course he speaks for them too.
Down with greedy pigs and down with the so called new world order.
Smulan45 1 year ago
Peter Schiff was screaming out before the finance crisis you fool... Just look back!!!
bjarnet3 1 year ago
@Smulan45 Peter Schiff warned about this many, many years ago. In thousands of interviews... You are foolish Swedish socialist.
bjarnet3 1 year ago
@bjarnet3
"Peter Schiff warned about this many, many years ago. In thousands of interviews"... Yes and so did several other individuals. Who don´t belong to the top 2 riches procent in the US... ;-)
Don´t fool your self.
Smulan45 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Smulan45 You're too stupid to realize how stupid you actually look. bwhahahahaha!
Eric21ND 1 year ago
@Smulan45 You said that Peter only talks for the rich... Peter is warning about a total collapse in the US dollar... He is trying to save the wealth of everybody,, especially the poor...
It is the middle class and the poor that is going to suffer the most from Obama/Bernanke's inflationary collapse...
Most of the people who create jobs,, go bankrupt.. But if you tax them,, they might not take that risk,,, especially in a inflationary environment...
Wealth do not come from government...
bjarnet3 1 year ago
@bjarnet3
Yes you´re right
but only to a certain point.
Schiff doesn´t care about the poor. :-))
But he´s aware of how rutten the finance system is...
I prefer Celente.
Smulan45 1 year ago
This is good stuff for "Peter Schiff was right 7.0" ;-) Why not go where the real money is Gold, Silver...
bjarnet3 1 year ago
I am watching the full video, and this leftist guy is depraved. His remarks reek of complete violation of free, natural, and productive action, of shoving guns in people's faces and stripping them of their wealth, shooting them in he knee if they refuse, and shooting them in the head if they defend themselves. Its the tradition of Mao and Lenin, and today of Bush and Obama.
He buys into the false paradigm that Republicans are free marketers when they as just socialist as Democrats.
digitallando 1 year ago
Have all of you been watching the same debate? Schiff is just WAY OFF. The US has more regulation then China, wages are determined by productivity and the unemployed are just lazy? Nonsense, if wages were determined by productivity then why does a bus driver in India not earn the same wage as a bus driver in Sweden? Indian trafic is pretty awful, dodging cows requires skill, you would expect the bus driver in India to make a lot more money seeing as he has more 'human capital' so to speak.
Cosbibi 1 year ago
Actual government spending has not significantly expanded because contraction at the state level has offset stimulus and other temporary federal spending. The deficit has risen due to a decline in revenues, not due to runaway spending.
baseballnolie34 1 year ago
having just finished watching the debate, I think Schiff is much more clued in BUT I personally have seen, and contributed to, the increase in productivity without any increase in wages to match, and being told flat out no such increases will happen. When asked about further work in a new department which which the NORMAL METRIC is 1.7x efficiency of "normally just one person" and NO increase in pay I flat out said "no dice: more work = more pay or I quit if you try to force me there"
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
@ytgv3fc7 one thing I would ask of those CEO type that say that productivity didn't grow... "HOW the hell YOUR salary growth ?" if not by increase profit/productivity
"and don't fool yourself by thinking it's all your contribution"
moestietabarnak 1 year ago
@moestietabarnak exactly. Now with some cases I think it would be the case: Peter Schiff no doubt offers great direction and knowledge to many people so I have no doubt he pulls serious weight in EuroPacific capital. But for many corporations I have no doubt their near-top and middle-management are losers and top management may also be losers. Workers need to unite to demand proper wage increases for actual productivity increases OR refuse to add productivity and be ready to move on.
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
Could they have editied it enough. Im sure in the real interview Peter handed both of them their asses. Im off to unsubscribe to the "Real News". What a joke.
EMPIRE0FLIES 1 year ago
@EMPIRE0FLIES go unsubscribe already. the interview was very balanced in the 30 min version and Schiff did indeed talk down the other guy appropriately most of the time (not on productivity, wages or admission of Chinese slavery wages - Schiff loses on those points). Arguing with Paul Jay didn't happen harshly and isn't supposed to. He's trying to help them show US things we ought to know.
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
@ytgv3fc7 Minimum-Wage laws do to jobs what Price-Control do to food,,, It creates Shortages... If you force up wages on already struggling industries, they at best move to another area or at worst go out of business...
What enables businesses to pay higher wages is Capital. Instead of hammers they get Nail Guns,,, instead of spades they get excavators.
Many low paying jobs end up high paying,, BUT THESE LOW PAYING JOBS IS NOT CREATED ANYMORE,,,
bjarnet3 1 year ago
@bjarnet3 min wage protects people from being murdered by capitalism, and price controls for food is a good thing, not a bad thing. The opposite is called murder.
Only slave-masters and the most evil people TRULY WANT removal of minimum wage. It would mean the hardest worker could never afford more than 1 meal per day and that's a fact. It's evil.
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
@bjarnet3 actually I want to dispell a shortage myth right now. The biggest lie in the world's history of economics is that price controls cause shortages. It's untrue now and forever.
Capitalism causes shortages. Something critical like clean air, water or food in nature but NOT RARE is something we can pay almost nothing for and live JUST FINE.
Capitalism is the process by which this is destroyed to cause shortages DELIBERATELY because without this, no price can exist.
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
@bjarnet3 so if we can abolish the most dangerous uses of capitalism before it's too late, we can abolish shortages because those shortages only exist because of the capitalist incentive to lie, cheat, steal, and destroy so that something needed badly is made rare, even though BEFORE capitalism there was no such rarity nor would there be whatsoever.
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
@ytgv3fc7Yes, with all that editing, very balanced. Obviously Jay has a black agenda and is probably getting paid. He wouldnt have survived without dirty money!
EMPIRE0FLIES 1 year ago
@EMPIRE0FLIES not even close. Schiff got to say his say and they both tried to cut each other off. Paul Jay is supposed to try and keep order so it doesn't become a CNBC shouting match like Schiff is used to. Look even when he gets cut off he gets a lot of good information out there but he could talk for hours and hours and it's not his show. He doesn't even push his own youtube videos to 15 min, sticks to 10, so what's the complaint.
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
@ytgv3fc7 You have a link to the half hour debate?
EMPIRE0FLIES 1 year ago
@EMPIRE0FLIES it's on the real news network web site
w w w.t herealnews.c om/t2/index.p hp?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5749
ytgv3fc7 1 year ago
interuppting bald fat fuck let schiff get his end finished moron
Gantzer1 1 year ago
How is this fuckin real news when you edited the debate like crazy? Let's us hear the whole thing you douche..
devilmirror1 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Lmfao are you serious man? Watch the whole damn debate and you let me know who has a logical argument. This is a 2 vs. 1 debate. I hope your saying that in defense of peter schiff. And IF you are then I'm sorry about saying all this. lol
PureAdrenaline97 1 year ago
@PureAdrenaline97 Yes, I've seen the whole clip and I'm on Peter's team. They cropped out his answer unfairly.
devilmirror1 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Alright good. lol
PureAdrenaline97 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Maybe if you could read the FIRST SECONDS OF THE VIDEO ... you would see that you could see the entire debate at the website
AirelonTrading 1 year ago
@AirelonTrading Yes, I went to the site and d/l the whole clip. That whole debate was so biased and got chopped frequently at Peter's rebuttal.
devilmirror1 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Good, because the less people listen to that guy, the better.
Personally, I would like to see him investigated for a class action lawsuit of fudiciary.
He was wrong about Europe decoupling from the world, and leading the pack. He was wrong about China decoupling from the US. He was wrong about interest rates, thus, he was wrong about Treasuries. He was MOST DEFINITELY wrong about risk control procedures, and yes, he WILL be wrong about Hyperinflation. He got one thing right. One
AirelonTrading 1 year ago
@AirelonTrading Strange, because my portfolio went up more than 60% in the past two years by listening to his advice. Anyway, I like it when people distrust him since I can make more money that way.
devilmirror1 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Yeah ... me too.
I'm up 80% in ONE year ... with trades (before, during and after) as well as long term investments public in front of everyone as they happened in real-time
AirelonTrading 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Schiff is a flash in the pan. I've been doing this for 14 years, and will do it for another 14. While you enjoyed annualized 30% for the brief time period this guy has gotten popular? Come see me again in another 14 years.
In fact, I'm meeting with someone in about two hours who wanted to talk with me, and if I'm not mistaken ... he's lost money hand over foot because he listened to Mr. "There is no chance I'm wrong - Zero Risk Control" Schiff
AirelonTrading 1 year ago
@AirelonTrading lol, I'm happy as long as I meet my investment goal with my current risk tolerance level. If you know something special and can beat the market that much, good for you. I believe in Austrian economics people such as Ron Paul, Tom Woods, and Schiff. They let me know how government destroys the US dollar and where should I hedge against that.
Yeah, during the next 14 years, if you were as famous & successful as these people, I might discover you. So, get lost for now will ya?
devilmirror1 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Of course! Because FAME = SUCCESS right? If you are famous then you must be doing everyhting right.
Please.
I avoid the camera as much as possible. Unlike Schiff.
AirelonTrading 1 year ago
OMG, I'm so honored that you are revealing yourself to me right now!!
devilmirror1 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 Actually? I work my hardest at turning people like you away. I haven't turn down offer after offer year after year so I could try to pimp myself on YT to people such as yourself. Doing what I do publicly has been for free, has been public, and I do my best to keep the populist crowd away. I don't need your attention, and nor do I want it. Revel in your anger. The last thing I want? Is folks such as yourself following anything I'm doing.
AirelonTrading 1 year ago
@devilmirror1 twit
dan / airelontrading has revealed himself publicly for years. but like most truly intelligent people he covets neither fame nor attention. he just wants to help w/o any of the trappings of being public. and like many of us ...he cant stand whiners
soVun 1 year ago
I know someone like this as well. I think Peter makes sense in general but I listen to other sources as well. Don't hang on his every word. When he speaks and tries also to provide a solution for poverty showing compassion for the poor is when I listen. Also he may be in the top 2 percent but I think he's at the bottom rung. I think the really wealthy don't own SMALL businesses. Also if the government is going to bail out folks it should just straight up tax the rich, instead of borrowing.
Quranite 1 year ago
@TheElMoIsEviL Hyper schmyper. Okay. The Fed and Treasury leveraged up roughly 11 trillion dollars to buy shit nobody else would. That mean zero dollars worth of shit became worth 11 trillion dollars. If it hadn't, everything else would be priced about zero as well. That's some pretty steep inflation.
WGS669 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Doug has no clue how a business works in the real world and why people get hired and are paid salaries.
Immy1993 1 year ago
Comment removed
Immy1993 1 year ago
Schiff is equal parts incongruous & incorrigible, a nut. Henwood is equal parts bemused & annoyed at Sciff's antics. Schiff really needs to do more research & leave that Austrian lead weight or dead wood behind. I really can't believe his performance here, & right wingers actually look up to this dilettante.
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
@Bigmartinno1 I cant believe people still say things like right or left winger. Who gives a shit, we all bleed the same. That kind of talk causes nothing but division. When you spend your time fighing over which side you want to be on, the people that run things continue to conquer.
tomasz3421 1 year ago
@tomasz3421 The way I differentiate Left & Right is on there positions on capital.
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
@Bigmartinno1 Well, if you think about any sort of possition, political, religious, capital or others it is nothing more but a personal believe. If you keep the gov to a minimum, with very limited power, nothing more but support for individual states, it does not matter who's running the office this term or the next.
tomasz3421 1 year ago
@tomasz3421 Then why keep Gov to a minimum? Politics needs to be reinvigorated, democracy broadened & deepened. There is severe difficulty in doing this under the present system of property relations. Indeed, most of the intellectual Godfathers of the modern Right, including Von Mises & Hayek among others, spent their days devising ways in which to progessively limit democracy in the interests of those with capital.
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
@Bigmartinno1 Honestly Schiff leave the pet hates & related rhetoric at home. It helps to actually know the material. Then you might not end up looking like such a rabid fool.
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
The tax debate is just a waist of time. If we keep spending like we are taxing every single one of us regardless including top 2% even as high as 85% will still not service the national debt, not metioning the shortage for penstion and medicare.
tomasz3421 1 year ago
haven't even watched yet. already faved.
LeftPolitiko 1 year ago
@TheElMoIsEviL Peter Schiff followers are like a clan of morons.
LouieArrighi 1 year ago
@LouieArrighi Why is that? You're watching his video so perhaps you're a moron as well.
Unkn0wnGuy 1 year ago
I love Real News Network please donate.
temporalist 1 year ago
I can't believe I had the patience to liste to Schiff BS that long. Schiff's only argumnet is to talk over top of the other guy and he has his long list of well rehearse sound bites.
I seriously doubt that his personal income is being taxed 50%. He is counting the taxes paid by his corporation as personal taxes but not counting the corp income as personal income. If he wants to do that he should do business as a sole proprietorship.
Schiff tea bags in his brain! He produces nothing!
zthustra 1 year ago
What doesn't make sense is why the left keynesians complain all day about wall street CEO's and then propose increasing taxes on the top 2 percent of society. COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL. Those walls treet crooks are not top 2 percent, they are more like TOP .1 or top .3 percent. In effect, keynesians want to tax small businesses, doctors, lawyers - people who DIDN'T do anything wrong.
WHere is the logic!? If u must tax, tax the top .3 percent not the top 2 percent - they are the ones causing probs
mak2675 1 year ago
@TheElMoIsEviL
The federal funds rate does not give a reliable prediction for hyperinflation. As long as credit card interest is high, then we won't see hyperinflation. The last thing we need is a credit binge.
American jobs are not coming back anytime soon. No magic policy can fix that right now because no policy can magically allow the Chinese to spend like Americans beyond their means.
kmarinas86 1 year ago
Oh shit!!!! finally a real debate!!! please real news, put the whole thing up!!!!
Wishingstarification 1 year ago
Inflation is not about prices but about the increase of money supply relative to real wealth. Prices are an unreliable simptom.
What the USA an many parts of the world have now is an exces of credit.
panstriato2 1 year ago
@TheElMoIsEviL Your arguments are completely absurd and contrary to what Peter Schiff advocates. Stop lying. Link the video where he said we would be in hyperinflation in 2010. Link the video where he said that China will pull the plug in 2010.
Peter said that if the US government continues to print money they will eventually go into hyperinflation like germany. Never did he give a date. Peter said that China SHOULD drop the USD, but never a date. Gold prices? still going up. You're full of BS
Unkn0wnGuy 1 year ago
btw, why did TRN pull the full 1/2 hour debate from youtube??
elnegrobembon 1 year ago
imho, the issue isn't just creating jobs, it's creating jobs with livable wages. you can deregulate all you want, but at the end of the day, businesses are going to go where they can get the highest profit margin. if they find cheaper labor, lower taxes, and less regulation overseas, they won't hesitate to go there. but that doesn't mean it's in the general public's best interests to compete with those countries that are more business friendly because business-friendly != public welfare.
elnegrobembon 1 year ago
@elnegrobembon thats why tariffs were in place to make American products cheaper than outsourced. tariffs and subsidies are what our country was founded on. the subsidies have been corrupted though by giving them to corps that outsource. ask fringeelements this and he won't understand what the f--k you are talking about because he's an idiot when it comes to economics.
LouieArrighi 1 year ago
@TheElMoIsEviL lol agreed peter schiff is one of those free market morons from the very far right.
ryler05 1 year ago
peter schiff is a moron
ryler05 1 year ago
Japan is not very relevant here. Japan experienced deflation because their stimulus largely comes from their government borrowing money from SOLVENT Japanese citizens. They are solvent because of their high trade surpluses. Thus such borrowing causes relatively fewer problems than it would in a debt-soaked nation like the US. Also the Japanese attitude toward housing has changed since their bubble. They expect house prices to go down, not up, forbidding another Japanese housing bubble.
kmarinas86 1 year ago
Go Peter Go :D
bryanncampbellca 1 year ago
Whats retarded is the agenda for taxing the top 2 percent when its only the top something like 1 or .5 percent that is benefiting from our system. People making between 200,000 to 700,000 are your doctors, lawyers, small business owners. They aren't the hedge fund managers, CEO's. I still don't understand why people on the left want to tax these people, who don't get the corporate welfare. These people help society a great deal and worked their butts off in college. Why do they deserve this?
mak2675 1 year ago 3
@mak2675 because they got a free ride in the last decades. their effective taxes rate got under that of the lower class. check warren buffet quote about his secretary.
you talk about doctors, and we talk about those wall street golden boy, that get millions in bonus, they could work their ass off 16 hours a day, that stgill wouldnt justify it. compared to people that have hard meeting ends with 3 jobs!
moestietabarnak 1 year ago
Comment removed
mak2675 1 year ago
@moestietabarnak
you failed to answer my question and so far every left wing person has. This was my challenge to all of you:
Im asking why the left proposes increasing taxes on the top 2 % when only the .3 or .5 percentile are the ones that deserve it. The top 2 % includes doctors, lawyers, small businesses. They don't deserve being taxed more. The top .3 or .5 % include your wall street golden boys that you rail all day about.
Im saying only increase taxes on THEM!
PLEASE READ first
mak2675 1 year ago
@moestietabarnak
you failed to answer my question and so far every left wing person has. This was my challenge to all of you:
Im asking why the left proposes increasing taxes on the top 2 % when only the .3 or .5 % are the ones that deserve it. The top 2 % includes doctors, lawyers, small businesses. They don't deserve being taxed more. The top .3 - .5 % include your wall street golden boys that you rail all day about.
Im saying only increase taxes on THEM, the top .3-.5 %(if anything)
mak2675 1 year ago
@mak2675 told ya! Because, to a lesser extend, they DID get a free ride, yes the lawer and the doctor too, they get undeserved taxes cut. they gain was smaller, but it was still a gain. and notes that we don't say "confiscate everything" we say taxes them as fairly as the middle-class is taxed. like the bush's taxes cut disappearing would affect your lawer making 300k.. ONLY on the 50k over 250k not a big burden when you consider the debt etc. while other just don't have jobs and losing house.
moestietabarnak 1 year ago
@mak2675 and like the other warning we get like "taxes them too much and they will move". I'd like to see a doctor or a lawer leave and try to practice in another country. I doubt many could keep they high salary there (if even they could find a jobs, lawer would have to retrain to a whole new set of law etc)
moestietabarnak 1 year ago
@moestietabarnak
"retain a new set of laws". LOL. That doesn't take away that its unfair for them to be taxed that much in the first place. And btw did u know the average debt for doctors is something like 300k-400k out of med school?
Doctors making 500k a year pay nearly half their money in taxes+insurance. Same situation as big multimillionaires. ANd you're saying we should bring em up to middle class? You have your facts way off. The middle class does not get taxes nearly that much!
mak2675 1 year ago
Comment removed
mak2675 1 year ago
@moestietabarnak
the point is you cannot argue from a social justice standpoint that the 200k-700k bracket has, on the whole, done anything to deserve being taxed more. They contribute and don't take from society.
But thats exactly what the news portrays You see your bernie madoffs getting charged for fraud and then they start talking about: why not tax the top 2 percent? Those wall street clowns who scavenge society are WAY above top 2 percent! So quit pickin on the top 2% when its top .3!
mak2675 1 year ago
@mak2675 that still leave 250k cash, and they can clear those debt in 4 years and live confortably on 150k ..fir the first 4years ! ..then they net 250k ! heck, doing that kind of money i could retire nicely after 10 years.
Now they asking for people to retire in the 70s,l to save money on something they paid for !
People are losing their house and you care to make 250k instead of 230 ?!
remember, people losing their and their jobs, mean less consumer to buy your product.
moestietabarnak 1 year ago
Peter Schiff is the man that knows what he is talking about.
bradleytank666 1 year ago 4
@mrzack88 Government intervention created the economic collapse. Now you want more government intervention to save us from the economic collapse????
htwrw 1 year ago 4
Until people understand what money really is and where it comes from, no recovery will come. Money is not pieces of paper or even gold. Money is a contractual obligation between producing men and women. Paper, silver, gold, zinc and copper are simply scarce items that allow these transactions to take place. When the money buys less, it sends a universal signal that the society is less productive and must save more. When the government interferes in money, it destroys this natural system.
schulwitz 1 year ago 3
@schulwitz Interesting term you use there, "natural system." Natural in what sense? I guess it comes down to whether you believe the economy should serve the needs of society; or whether society should subsume it's needs for the good of the "natural system" however one defines that, of the economy.
747Cone 1 year ago
@747Cone
Natural system because without any govt agency people still assign value to things. It happens freely, in every transaction, no need for any laws, just people acting and choosing what they themselves think is "right".
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin So is this "natural system" you refer to purely economic in nature or does it extend to the social sphere as well. What is people freely choose (in the absence of a formal governmental structure) to devise a norm or rule that would help govern their future transactions (be they social or economic). Further, what if there is a dispute as to what is "right" as you put it. How would the dispute be resolved, would force be permitted in it's resolution, if not, why not?
747Cone 1 year ago
@747Cone *What *IF* people freely - sorry misspelling
747Cone 1 year ago
@747Cone
The economy is what shapes society and society shapes the economy. Civilization means constant business.
Disputes can be resolved in courts, not necessarily by the monopolized court system owned by the State. But if you must have govt running the courts at least have that and nothing else, nothing like all the regulations and taxation that go beyond dispute resolution, which is exactly what we have today and to what we oppose, govt deeply involved in commerce.
asperin 1 year ago
@747Cone
.
Please read my description again. It's a "natural system" in the sense that barring interference, money buys more with increased productivity and less with decreased productivity. Do you disagree with the premise that this is the "natural system" of money?
.
If so, how is it possible to sustain an economy if money buys more with decreased productivity? You'll encounter shortages (See 2007 housing crash).
.
This, incidentally, is exactly why the economy will continue to tank.
schulwitz 1 year ago
Peter Schiffster need to stfu and let the keynesian speak. only government intervention saved the world from economic collapse. but unfortunately it went to the bankers instead of the people. US government need to give free money to small and medium businesses and break up monoplies.
mrzack888 1 year ago
@mrzack888 - you make it sound like they made a simple mistake in giving the trillions to the bankers. There was no mistake, It was a calculated worldwide coordinated raid on us, to pay them. they don't want small and medium businesses to succeed. We have to understand they are gangsters and the politicians are their front-men. The only thing that was 'saved' was the markets; we'll spend the rest of our lives paying for that bailout.
1966BOBBY 1 year ago 6
@mrzack888 LOL and the keynesian speaks delusional theories as usual. The US government should give free money to businesses? Where does the government get their "free" money? Nothing is free my friend. Snap out of keynesian dreamland and get into reality.
Unkn0wnGuy 1 year ago
@Unkn0wnGuy "Where does the government get their "free" money?"
i'm not sure, but maybe zack wasn't speaking about FREE money, but rather how the fed is giving banks money at 0%, or, "free".
;d
666norton420 1 year ago
@mrzack888 Gah. Any power you give to a government, or anyone else, will be abused to do the very evils for which you gave them the power to save you from. How many centuries of proof do you people need? You want to talk about monopolies, government is the middle man in all of them, government makes it legal. SEC, FDIC, CFTC, FCC, etc...
WGS669 1 year ago
@WGS669 while i agree with your point, i have no idea why it was posted in reply to the comment is was.
didn't add anything to the conversation, imo.
maybe you could elaborate on the correlation?
;d
666norton420 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@666norton420 He/She/It said, "only government intervention saved the world from economic collapse". My comment was mostly rhetorical of course, If it added anything, given the forum and the participants, it would be this.. HEY! You see this guy? Shock Doctrine: 1 -- Us: 0.
WGS669 1 year ago
@TheElMoIsEviL wrong as usual? what is he wrong about?
Unkn0wnGuy 1 year ago
Man I hate teasers!
stealinator 1 year ago
PEter shiff was rly smart predicting the crisis, about the only one who did. But now that hes in politics he's retarded, talking just in function of rep vs dem
Mendelevium146 1 year ago
@Mendelevium146 "PEter shiff was rly smart predicting the crisis, about the only one who did."
oh wow, do you not have a clue....
MANY saw it coming... just none who appeared on tv. :)
80% of the businesses on Money Market's "red list" in 05 are no more. they had several sources across the industry that felt the same as they... shit was coming...
then there's all the regular people who just payed attention and saw things falling apart. if i wasn't surprised, no one in the biz should've been.
;d
666norton420 1 year ago
@666norton420 hey mr.666, if so many rich people saw it coming then would have happened as they all sell their assets, thats how economy works :)
The fact is no one really saw it coming. Stock markets values represent what people think is going to happen in the mid future, if everyone knew it would crash then all market would have gone undervalued. And yes there are these people(perhaps like you?) who have been calling a crash every day for decades(paranoia) and want merit when it actually does
Mendelevium146 1 year ago
@Mendelevium146 Many saw it coming. I saw it and sold -all- of my equity holdings in 9/2007. If you were paying attention, especially in 1999 (Gramm Leach Bliley act), in 2000 (Commodity Futures Modernization Act ), and in 2004 (SEC leverage exemptions), you'd have seen that the "crisis" was inevitable. In fact, it was intentional.
WGS669 1 year ago
@WGS669 I love that, after it happens everyone says they saw it coming all the way cause they are so smarter, yet before the crash no sign of equities value decreasing due to that, weird!
Mendelevium146 1 year ago
@Mendelevium146 Everyone saw it coming? No. I did. People I know did. Most did not. That's how bubbles work, they are inflated with ignorance. Unless you are somwhat educated in finance and/or economics, you likely did not know those laws were even passed, much less what was in them or the consequences. You certainly were not going to be alerted by mass media. All you knew was you bought a house and a car and that your 401k was awesome.
WGS669 1 year ago
@WGS669 eh, anyways, I just thought funny how everyone says what you said that they were smarter than everyone but in fact very few actually did. I am assuming in your superiority you still have all your assets out of the market by fear of another, bigger crash, like peter shiff? I bet all this time not making profits makes up for what you saved by selling everything before the crash. Anyways, let's hope you are shiff are wrong this time!
Mendelevium146 1 year ago
@Mendelevium146 I'm not the typical Schiff groupie. I listen to him, but through a filter. I do not invest in any way similar to him. His warnings have merit. The reasoning behind his forecasts is sound. Where he and others in that camp fail is their inability to accept that extrordinary measures -will always- be taken to counter the things they warn about. My job is understanding how central bankers and politicians will act today, so that they can discredit guys like Schiff in the future.
WGS669 1 year ago
@WGS669 that's exactly why for over 35 years fiat currency and delinkage of currency to gold/silver has crashed the economy. All because central bank system has created a gigantic mess. At least in Britain now they understand you can't keep following the same economic crap forever without cause massive financial harm to your own people's ability to operate a free fair market economy.
jibbi4one 1 year ago
@jibbi4one See, I think the "mess" was and is the goal, actualy, the pentultimate goal. It allowed the empire to expand and achieve the domination needed to ultimately put it all in one "legal" body. The thing is, it will still be fiat, fractional, and central planned, only far more coordinated. Technology (data collection) has caught up with their plans, now it's only a matter of time, gradually adapting new laws via a series of shocks and governmental responses.
WGS669 1 year ago
@WGS669 "It allowed the empire to expand and achieve the domination needed to ultimately put it all in one "legal" body." Yea, like the EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Hollywood stuff.
Old economy is done, over, stick a fork in it-its done.
OLD HYPERCAPITALISAM is done it's time now we use MINARCHISAM to build with. State structure Keynes is dead. Alan Greenspan FED now working for a hedge fund in NYC its strongest position is GOLD.
I listen to the guy that employs 100 people not 3 people part time.
jibbi4one 1 year ago
@jibbi4one I would have thought for most hypercapitalism is synonymous with minarchism. Moves towards minarchism undertaken over the last 30yrs, if anything, at the very least, are implicated in our present predicament. I would also suggest that Keynes will prob make a heroic return, before the population totally boils over.
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
@Bigmartinno1 You're confusing MINARCHISAM an effective gov't structure w/ hypercapitalisam where business company crony gov't regulators 'look the other way' a common gov't ploy in modern times well lubricated with 'kick backs' funds in such fields as science, economy, industry, security. You read about in the news every freak'in day.
Subscribers to Keynes really are economists that eat there own vomit.
(¬_¬) Sorry, You have a lot to learn yet.
jibbi4one 1 year ago
@jibbi4one Reread what I said, "Moves towards minarchism......". & please don't try to paint a picture in which the last 30yrs was not an era of deregulation.
Please point to an instance in which Minarchism was an effective govt structure.
Please point to an advocate of Keynes who eats his/her own vomit.
Everybody has a lot to learn, some more than others
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
@Bigmartinno1 Well Duh... you're a freak'in dumbass commie fuck face.
French Free enterprise post WWll veterans build a French economy post WWII.
Hey, dumbass show me where a French heavy industry workers union became a free enterprise heavy industry company employing French workers?
Dude stop eating your own VOMIT !!
jibbi4one 1 year ago
@jibbi4one Just to be clear, the reason why most people see 'hypercapitalism' as of the same genus as minarchism is the deregulation & retreat of the State inherent in 'hypercapitalism'.
Bigmartinno1 1 year ago
@Bigmartinno1 Dude, you're too left to understand. Try brain dead fuck!
jibbi4one 1 year ago
@Bigmartinno1 Hypercapitalisam=minarchisam. Wrong analogy Mr. Keynes!!
jibbi4one 1 year ago
@Mendelevium146 Yeah everyone now claims they saw it coming. Post your portfolio if you saw it coming. If you're not heavily invested in commodities and precious metals you're full of shit.
Eric21ND 1 year ago
@Mendelevium146 i didn't say everyone in the market knew what they were doing, most people are utter morons.
the point is, many respected people and institutions saw it coming, a lot were just so involved in the profit making, they didn't want to stop the party on their watch and not cash in too.
if you understand economics, it was rather easy to see the trouble coming.
it has nothing to do with constant "doom and gloom" sayers.
so you can drop the whole "mr.666" bit. :)
;d
666norton420 1 year ago
@666norton420 hehe, can I call you mr.norton? ^_^
Mendelevium146 1 year ago
@Mendelevium146 i guess that's expectable. :)
;d
666norton420 1 year ago
The argument that there is no inflation is very stupid. The monetary base, credit, and debt have been greatly expanded. This is inflation, rising prices are an eventual product of this. As Schiff said prices are in fact rising. Most commodities are going through the roof and my grocery bill has increased considerably, along with my rent, gasoline, and most living costs. In a debate you have to let both sides speak, and both Peter and Henwood cut each other off, moderator should moderate.
capslockbandit 1 year ago 10
Great to see Schiff on here, but this interview was way too short and sucked. Schiff is and was right.
/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw
slhines7 1 year ago
i thought this "news" channel was trying to bring something diff't to the table. seems like the same old cbs, nbc, abc, cnn, pbs, msnbc, etc. far left nonsense. and we wonder why no1 except the elderly get their news from the aforementioned networks.
ftwbk 1 year ago
typical self-avowed keynesians still clueless about economics. henwood even admitted that he doesn't have any full time employees. he knows nothing about jobs. i thought his answers were just a joke to mock keynesianism but he actually believes that nonsense. schiff was right and will continue to be right. too bad they hardly let him answer and edited most of it.
ftwbk 1 year ago 3
@ftwbk When was Schiff RIGHT ?
ANTIDALLARD 1 year ago
@ANTIDALLARD
/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw
slhines7 1 year ago
@ANTIDALLARD r u serious? go watch his videos starting back in 2002-2008. also, read his book "crashproof: how to profit from the coming economic collapse" published in feb. of 2007 and written in 05-06. in addition, watch the video entitled, "peter schiff was right' cnbc edition.
ftwbk 1 year ago 2
Respond to this video... Schiff is squirming. He is like a defeated army, declaring victory, marching home behind the band.
ANTIDALLARD 1 year ago
@ftwbk He doesn't have any full time employees, which means...??
Zakdayak 1 year ago
@Zakdayak it means that henwood has no clue about the actual real world effects of the policies that the's promoting. for ex. just look at his proposal for higher wages. that is the same policy we had during the great depression. all the same steps taken during the period r being followed now. 1st by bush and now by obama.
ftwbk 1 year ago 8
@ftwbk Higher wages mean less profits. It depends on the industry. If you're talking about McDonald's and Walmart - they can afford it.
Zakdayak 1 year ago
@Zakdayak less profits mean higher prices or job losses.
Unkn0wnGuy 1 year ago
@Zakdayak "Higher wages mean less profits". Blind Profiteering kills economies.
Higher wages also mean less debt, education & reskilling affordable, things bought in the community. Regulation & tax can also put solar panels on all new buildings slashing energy costs for everyone.
Tax for High skill, education, health, low crime, is why Nth EU stays in the top league..
Robot engineers not cheap button pushers.
Cutting wages for profit also causes market collapse as nobody can afford to buy.
marsCubed 1 year ago
@marsCubed I agree with you. I was talking short term and to somebody else. I think short term corporate profits should take a back seat to other issues. I agree with everything you've said.
Zakdayak 1 year ago
@ftwbk With the continual interruptions, the "interview" appears as poorly conducted, . . .
phillipgaley 1 year ago
Comment removed
ftwbk 1 year ago
Paul you need to get Max Keiser on or Gerald Celente.
james9689 1 year ago
@james9689 that would be interesting...
polidic 1 year ago
@james9689 Those guys can't hold Peter Schiff or Jim Rogers jock
Eric21ND 1 year ago
Schiff rhymes with shit.
HomoCyborgZombie 1 year ago
@HomoCyborgZombie
It doesn't!
If you wanna make money never become a rapper.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin Exactly, you have to make money by lying to people.
Become Shiff or Popoff.
And change your name to Peter.
HomoCyborgZombie 1 year ago
@HomoCyborgZombie
Some rappers do make money, I wasn't saying they don't.
asperin