Good Lord, what is wrong with everyone? ANY object in Creation - is a THING. It has no life or magical powers. ANY day is just a cycle of the sun going up and down. NOTHING more. It is ONLY what you desire to do with them. If Satanists came up with a delicious moose burger for the BBQ and sell it in grocery stores only on Anton Leveys birthday and worship Satan while eating it - I would buy one, thank Christ for such good food, and devour it on a bun. Just a burger with spices - NOTHING more...
From what I have read, for the first few centuries of Christianity, Easter was the big celebration, and Jesus' birth, being divine, was downplayed. It is only within the last 300 years that Christmas has become an equal (if not more important) holiday than Easter in the lives of Christians.
3. As much as you try to argue it, gift giving has nothing to do with his birth, the wise men weren't even there at his birth, they arrived much later, and they weren't birthday gifts they were gifts meant for a king. 4.If celebrating his birth was so important, why doesn't the bible say to celebrate it, and why is his birth never mentioned again through the rest of the New Testament. 5. Christmas is more about our traditions at the expense of truth.
To all those people who say that they celebrate Christmas because they want to celebrate the birth of their Saviour, I am going to throw the bullshit flag, 1.Christians are supposed to be about the truth, yet they deny that most scholars findings show he wasn't born on Dec 25, if it truly meant something to you, you would celebrate closer to when it actually happened. 2. Jesus was born into poverty, but yet the whole holiday is about excess, from gift giving to over eating.
@HyperSchmizzle There are really only 2 ways for them to go: one is to deny the pagan origins (which is really the ridiculous, fact-denying way to go) and the other is to acknowledge the pagan origins and insist they don't matter. Of course, the second leads right back to what is said here in the video. When exactly did Yahweh say, "Meh, fuck it. Adopt all the pagan customs you want to worship me"?
@d007ization OK, thanks. So just to be sure I understand, it's your contention that a Christian's including a pagan practice (which is what the Christmas tree was before it was imported into the celebration of Christmas) as part of a celebration that pertains to the biblical god (as Christmas is purported to) is OK as long as the practice is not used to worship the biblical god directly, is that correct? BTW, how would use of the Christmas tree differ if it were used to worship God directly?
@ProfMTH So do you accept that Christians can celebrate Christmas without breaking any OT or NT laws?
I'm sure that scholars have a pretty accurate understanding of what the indiviual passsages meant/were refering to so it's not ALL open to interpretaion.
@ProfMTH Why so? All the laws you mentioned are in reference to religious practices, which isn't what christians are doing. They aren't praying to the pagan gods...
@d007ization It strikes me as exceedingly odd that so many Christians will acknowledge that the date of this celebration and its myriad trappings are all pagan religious practices imported into Christianity but somehow they cannot bring themselves to acknowlege that as a biblical matter this is a problem. Pagans celebrated December 25th as the dies natalis solis invicti, among other pagan religious festivals around the same time of year. In appropriating that date and celebration for the...
(con't) celebration of Jesus' birthday (with many of the same practices)--a celebration that is not commanded anywhere in the Bible, BTW--Christians did precisely what Deuteronomy forbids, i.e., worshipping the biblical god in the ways the pagans worshipped their gods. I find it difficult to believe that this actually eludes you.
@d007ization "I don't think any Christian sees the festival as a way to worship God...."
How interesting that, just for example, Christians go to church on Christmas to worship their god in celebration of Jesus's birth. Is this just a coincidence? Are they not really worshipping their god when they do this? Here's a hint: you're trying and failing to defend a bogus distinction.
"nor was it intended to be"
Clearly, you are ignorant of the relevant history. Familiarize yourself with it.
@ProfMTH You misunderstand me. The pagan traditions aren't meant to worship God.
Christmas replaced the pagan festival you mentioned since monotheism was the way to go back then. Multiple religions would have split the state apart.
Although admittedly God would have been worshiped then and now. But again:
@d007ization "Pagan customs weren't part of the worshiping"
Let's look at just two pagan customs relevant to this for a moment, namely, the pagan custom of celebrating the birth of a god and the pagan custom of celebrating that birth on December 25th. Christians looked at both pagan customs are imported them into Christianity as part of their worship of their god--the very thing Deuteronomy says believers in the biblical god are not supposed to do. Do you not see this?
@ProfMTH Now that's actually an interesting point. It's true that commemoration isn't an israelic practice that I'm aware of (at least direct ones. They did celebratrate their exodus from Egypt with 7 food courses).
But again: commemoration isn't worship.
Furthermore Jesus was only God in the sense that:
@d007ization So Christians *do* worship their god on Christmas. At last we're getting somewhere! So a pagan holiday that had been used to engage in the pagan custom of celebrating the birth of a god was imported into Christianity so that Christians could worship their god in celebration of the birth of their god-man, correct?
@ProfMTH You do actually have a point there. I'm not an expert on the subject but the only objection I can find for this is that the pagan custom was replaced and that the pagan customs were distorted (doing a disservice to the pagan gods).
I can't go anywhere spiritually with Abrahamic Religions because they conflate tight-ass social restrictions with spirituality, completely bypassing the Mystical priniciple from which Spirituality is derived. Spirituality is not politically correct, nor does it seek to please the social order. Sheep!
@SRamdhani1 fair enough if you celebrate Jesus' birth, but there is no evidence that it was on the 25th of December. Indeed since there were shepherds in the fields it was more likely to have been in the spring or summer and almost definitely not in the middle of winter. I think it is too much of a coincidence that many pre-christian groups in the Roman Empire had celebrations at this time of year when they were forced to convert by the Emperor.
@eddy6109 I can't recall being told that Jesus was born on Dec.25. I know it is the date set aside to commemorate Jesus' birth.Many people differ their birthday celebrations sometimes. Every day of the week has pagan origins. Pagans worship almost anything. What if it is discovered that they worship clothes? Will you go naked & condemn those who wear them? The 'pagan origin' argument is a silly one.
I was so convicted (by the Holy Spirit) that Christmas, as we know it, is total nonsense, and offensive to God. Why would I mix my Lord's birthday in to the celebration of a babylonian sun god's? Somewhere, in order not to OFFEND pagans, the church "recast" Jesus in the role of Mithra. I find it repulsive.
@GodIsSovereignty True. When Jesus was born Heaven celebrated, the angels, the shepherds & the wise men also. Guess who didn't celebrate? Satan. He still doesn't, & want us to follow suit. But he wont catch me in that. Merry Christmas.
@SRamdhani1 Yes, my friend. The Heavenly hosts celebrated Christ's birthday. Satan still refuses today that Christ became flesh. Demons will reject that. And Satan's children, wolves in sheep skin, fight to reject it also. They claim to be God's children, but they are themselves children of the Devil.
wow,, i dont know a christian that celabrates christmas or any pagan holliday??. bad video.. last time i heard that athiests were lonely on christmas day.. athiests, dont worry you are ready to join the rest of us in not celebrating:) now we can not celebrate as one... see christians!!! athiests belive in the same things we do, they just need time to catch up with us:)
So just because you don't personally know any Christians who celebrate Christmas, then no Christians ever celebrate Christmas and that means you're ahead of the curb? Really? Last I checked the Church I grew up with still celebrates Christmas every year. Maybe your sect doesn't celebrate the holiday, but that doesn't mean you're smarter and it certainly doesn't mean you have a better grasp of the truth than Churches that do. Ruling out when it didn't happen doesn't prove it did.
interesting point. I agree. However many of the customs/traditions practiced, and doctrines of Christianity were changed over time to suite the needs/motives of people. Therefore the religion as we know it today is not the way as it was intended. Since religion is organized and spread by people, it is inevitable that people will have their own interpretations on how they should practice it.
And why there are 6 & 6 & 6 days in New Year Holidays?
25.XII-31.XII=6 days; 1.I-6.I=6 days; 7.I-12.I=6 days. The sum of Roman Numerals in: "Count New Year Holidays"=666. And the sum of letters of each "6-th day" in Hebrew יוֹם שִׁשִּׁי -[yom shishshi] is equal to 666.
Usually each week has six days, when we work as if we are gods creating a new world.
The 6-th day for someone is a Friday, muslims say it's a Holy Day, for others it is a Saturday, and for some people, the 6-th day is only in January 6 of each year, they say it's Christ's birthday, and the sum of letters in Arabic: يُوم سَادسَه-[youm sadisah]-"sixth day" and in Hebrew: יוֹם שִׁשִּׁי-[yom shishshi]-"sixth day" always is equal to 666.
I have often wondered the same thing, thanks for the video, maybe it will wake up those people who profess to be christian who keep unholy pagan days!
I'm an Christian, and I celebrate x-mas but I don't really equate the two in my head. To me the season is just an excuse to celebrate family and whatever fortune we had that year.
That has been the best Video I have seen you present so far, among the other good arguments you put forth from time to time! but Christians that don't have any understanding celebrate these so called "Holidays" there is nothing Holy about them, actually people tend to be more shrewd during theses times. However for an Atheist who doesn't believe in GOD or gods celebrating Christmas is kinda like an Vegetarian who swears against meat but gets caught eating meat!
I guess people celebrate Christmas not only because they have gotten used to it but also because they do not want the younger generations to feel left out knowing that other kids except them are celebrating this so-called holiday. If there is a "spirit" of christmas, it's the spirit of the devil that feeds false happiness to those foolish enough to blend with today's society. Even if you drill the truth deep inside the lobe of their brain, people will continuously reject the truth for THE lie.
Pleasure to meet you. I am a Christian that does not Celebrate Christmas. Just to clarify, I am not a Jehovah's Witness, nor an ethnic Jew, nor a Muslim. I am an Evangelical Christian that does not Christmas. You are absolutely right to pose this question to us Christians. Thank you for making this video.
@VeryImagesozo I am an Evangelical Christian who celebrates Christmas.Like The Feast of Purim in Esther 9 that the Jews CREATED we are free to celebrate it & like Communion, it doesn't have to be on the exact date.My former Pastor who Jesus appeared to twice also celebrated Christmas when he was alive. Why do we celebrate it? To give thanks to God for bringing Salvation to mankind. When Jesus was born Heaven celebrated, the angels, shepherds & the wise men too. Christmas is a phenomenon (cont'd)
@SRamdhani1 Christ appeared to your pastor twice? Really? Let's see that would be a second and third coming of Christ and we missed it. Luke 2:10 has nothing to do with the apostate Roman Catholic doctrine of the Mass - or Christ Mass (Christmas) (Doctrine of transubstation), Venus or Asteroth (Christmas tree), Baal, the pagan yule log or any other Christmas tradtion of that nature. Neither does Esther 9 have anything to do with it. Esther 9 does not associate paganism with God.
@VeryImagesozo Are you saying that a Christian who celebrates Jesus' birth is worshipping pagan gods? Are you a doer of the Word or a Judge? You are disobeying Rom.14:1-13. Only God knows the heart, why are you judging another mas's servant? Esther 9 shows that we can honour God by celebrating a day or event even though it is not commanded in the Bible.You seem not to understand the difference between Jesus' coming to the world & his appearance to individuals or groups like the Disciples & Mary.
@SRamdhani1 No...I am not saying that if a Christian honors or celebrates the incarnation of Christ he is worshipping pagan Gods. I am saying that pagan traditions and rituals, ei Christmas, has nothing to do with the incarnation of Christ. They were not associating God with pagan Baal and the Grove rituals in Esther 9. The traditions we have at Christmas are the same traditions used in Baal and the Grove worship 4000 years ago and God punished Israel for it.
@VeryImagesozo (cont'd) Christmas is a phenomenon based on Lk.2:10. Its message is associated with a spirit of GREAT JOY & came TO ALL PEOPLE. So it is to this day, hence the worldwide celebrations.This spirit of joy is from God & not Satan as some would have us to believe.This phenomenon confuses many but God is not confused. Why we celebrate? Like Jesus said to the Pharisees in Lk 19:40, "I tell you that,if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out." It's unstoppable.
@Sairabebe23: The Quran states " Blessed is the day that Jesus was born ".
Hazarat Marium is chosen to be above the women of all nations because of Christ's birth. Also Jesus is the only baby to be born of God's Word & Spirit. As such it is a imperative that all Muslims celebrate Christmas and I am not talking of any pagan festival but the birth of Christ..
Deut. 12 is usually reserved as a passage Xians use to slam Halloween. But it applies to Christmas and Easter. It's just that Xmas and Easter have been sufficiently co-opted by them.
Lol, I've been doing research about Christmas and find it laughable that Christians have no idea they are breaking the 'Lords' commands. Luckily I'm not breaking any rules by celebrating Christmas! :-D
@faithhopelovecor1313 Sorry to tell you but celebration of birthdays are not even acceptable in the eyes of your God.
There is no scriptures in the Bible that say it is okay to celebrate Christmas or birthdays. They bring him gifts as a young child not a baby as so many Christians believe.
You might want to do more studying because what you are doing is wrong. Celebrating any birthday is wrong as far as the Bible is concerned.
So in actuality you are not supposed to celebrate his birth.
@faithhopelovecor1313 Well where do Santa, Raindeers, Christmas Trees and etc come from? I thought in the bible it says to celebrate his death (do this in the remembrance of me). It is like with easter how can you associate a darn bunny and some eggs with Jesus death???
Reindeer, Santa, Christmas trees all come from cultural norms from the respective countries, ie St. Nicholas or Kris Kringle. St. Nicholas was a real Bishop in 4th century who was kind to the poor.
Reindeer? exist in Finland and that area and are cultural significance around Christmas.
Americans adopted an assimilated version from several countries - to celebrate a time of year that is darkest.
Jesus is the light is what matters to Christians during Christmas.
Easter comes from North Eastern Europeans and perhaps fertility rites. Google it there is plenty of information.
Christmas is not the actual date of Jesus birth, nor is Easter the actual date of his death.
Jesus died, but the FOCUS is on the FACT that JESUS conquered death and ROSE from the DEAD to ascend to Heaven and will come again to judge the living and the dead.
If families did not have details that surround Christmas, what is the point? another day.
But Christmas makes memories and most times it is mothers who make memories with baking and fathers with their skills at providing lights and scenes to ENHANCE the celebration.
Christians at times lose the significance. Aetheists are commercializing it at times. But MOST people I know from all walks make a firm point to stop the business of life and gather to celebrate and be thankful.
But of course as with anything, it gets out of hand to the real meaning for some.
the bunny is a sign of feritility. The eggs are a sign of fecundity. Those were pagan signs and incorporated into an Easter celebration along with spring rites. Which are evident all around us in Spring.
Jesus birth in winter, helps us see light and hope in the dark. Jesus resurrection in the spring is a symbol of life that resurrects from dark winters.
It is pagan, but simultaneously symbolic, that is why it is incorporated for Christian worship. IMHO>
Because most "Christians" are not really Christians... The majority of whom also believe in pagan influenced doctrine such as "Eternal Torment in Hell", "Life After Death Without Being Physically Resurrected", etc...
A Christian that agrees :) thanks... If you follow John the Baptist's birth and that Mary had Christ at harvest time, you kinda figure out around the month he was born...and it's not December, same with Easter, more pagan crap dogma. And this is why Catholic are pagans, also keep the Sabbath Christians...
Yup Christmas is pagan to the core and if 'Christians' would just pick up their bibles and discern they'd know. The Lord will teach those who are His...
@cac0017 No, the bible says esteem a day or don't , it's up to you so long as you do it unto the Lord. That's what the Bible says. Romans 14. Don't get caught up in outward appearances (self-righteousness). God sees the heart. You and I do not. These legalistic, derision-creating, anti-Christmas, unloving videos do more to harm the body than help it. They also forward world-views of the cults, which creates bondage.
Funny shit Christimas was made by the Pagans it was a celebration of the winter solstice, and the Christians wanted to make Paganism obsolete, fucking hypocrites.
Inside the scriptures document there Is actually a book stating the very significance of this exact holiday describing It's paganism. a demon god Saturnus correct me If Im wrong but the holidays original name Saturnalia. I can't find the video telling these verses on youtube so far anymore. but I think the book Is Leviticus. If I'm wrong keep searching here on youtube for the verses. search engine: The Truth About Christmas.
Maybe because even if Christ was born in September, Minuse that -9 months gives use sometime around late December of his Conception which is where Life Begins to the Jewish believers. Even if there were pagan influences I am sure they no longer apply and has a greater importance in remembering his story.
Not all Christians celebrate Christmas, If you look at Jeremiah Chapter 10, it describes, not only Christmas, but similar holidays by other faiths, and God says clearly, don't do it. Some Christians do read the bible and follow it, they are far and few between though.
No, the bible says esteem a day or don't , it's up to you so long as you do it unto the Lord. That's what the Bible says. Romans 14. Don't get caught up in outward appearances (self-righteousness). God sees the heart. You and I do not. These legalistic, derision-creating, anti-Christmas, unloving videos do more to harm the body than help it. They also forward world-views of the cults, which creates bondage.
@EffieReal I'm not sure of what your trying to say here.
Are you saying that Romans 14 says we can dismiss Jeremiah 10? That we can decide what parts of God's word is good for us, and we can through away the rest? To esteem a day or not, does that mean we can esteem a day God said not to celebrate? It's okay to disobey God's word on something as long as we twist scripture to show it is okay in another place? Please elaborate.
@fundreamer1 I'm saying that you cannot dismiss the New Covenant by going back to the Old Covenant and forcing post-Gospel legalism into the lives of free believers, lest you crucify Christ daily.
@EffieReal I never dismissed the New Covenant, what gave you that idea? Besides, I'm not forcing anyone to accept anything I say, so saying I'm crucifying Christ daily is not an accurate description. Are you thinking that the old testament has no value?
@fundreamer1 I know the OT has value, but I don't think you know WHY it has value. I have already explained this. Besides, my point was made 3 post ago. So, this is getting circular and dull. If you are trying to force people to follow certain Old Covenant rules (and your version of them at that) you are indeed dismissing the New Covenant. We live under Grace. The entire book of Galatians makes this case. Also, to try to live under the law is to be spiritually adulterous, Romans 7.
@EffieReal I believe it is you that lacks understanding here, the point that I got three posts ago was that you seem to be taking the judgment of God for yourself. There is only one aspect of the Old testament that was done away with, that was the punishment for sins at that time. But the things that God said is a sin still stands, If you read enough you will see that God says he is an unchanging God. Your point of view seems to make him and his word changeable.
@fundreamer1 So you also don't know the meaning of "Pharisee". You are attempting to force laws (and misunderstood ones at that) onto free Christians. THAT is the quintessential example of a modern-day-Pharisee. I'm sorry, but you simply don't have enough understanding to debate and your attempts name-calling is even nonsensical as it is completely backwards.
@fundreamer1 BTW, I'm not accusing you of not "telling the truth" as you believe it to be. I'm simply pointing out where you are colossally missing the teachings of the New Covenant. Please, for your sake and the sake of those you come in contact with in the future, study Galatians and Romans. You will not be disappointed. :)
@EffieReal You have a picky memory, you are the one that started with being insulting, if you can't take a bloody nose, then don't start a fight. You want to accuse me of trying to laws, I never mentioned a law here. I mentioned only a sin that God said not to do, keep your facts straight or shut up. The teachings in the new testament don't over power the old like you seem to be insinuating, they compliment each other.
@fundreamer1 "...insulting" Nope. "bloody nose" moi? Nope again. "Fight" ha! Re: "Laws" the entire OT is considered the "Law". This is about terminology not eschatology. Re: the "sin" you "simply pointed out", as explained, you have a thorough misunderstanding of the "sin" you are trying to reference in the first place. IE nothing to do with Christmas trees. My facts are straight, but thanks for the attempted censorship. The teachings in the new covenant DO overpower the old! Galatians,read it.
@EffieReal Your not paying attention, I never said the new COVENANT doesn't overpower the old COVENANT. I said the new TESTAMENT doesn't overpower old TESTAMENT, they are two very different things I'm talking about. (And yes, you are insulting) And again yes, it is talking about the Christmas tree, what else fits the description?
@ProfMTH If a Christian is worshiping God "in Spirit and in Truth" then they are not employing pagan practice not matter who employed them for non-Christian uses. Just as a Christian employs a wedding band in a Christian marriage. This is/was supposedly a pagan practice. It's not pagan if YOU aren't pagan. I hope that's clear enough. Again, in the history of my culture, my country and my family and most importantly myself, Christmas is a Christian holiday. We are not following Paganism.
"Nope" what? The biblical god did *not* change his mind about pagan practices being employed to worship him? If that's your claim, you either haven't read the Bible or you're nuts.
@EffieReal My understanding is fine, your apparent need for talking to others like they are stupid seems to be your only drive here. You also can't seem to stand it when your wrong but won't acknowledge it.
@fundreamer1 Jeremiah is not about Christmas trees , it's not more plain than that. Nor is it about "Pagan components" (sorry, I can't recall which of you made up that descriptor). It's simply about having another god before the real God (in context) it's about idol worship...worship, not having some vague similarity of practice to a culture that you are not at all emulating or a religion that you are not all adhering to. I have not accused anyone of stupidity. I am using big words here.
@EffieReal I didn't say the words "pagan components" but where do you seperate "heathen and pagan"? I also never said that you called anyone stupid, stay on track here, I said you talk to others like they are stupid. You seem to like to twist what others say to your vision of the conversation. You also seem to do the same thing with scripture.
@fundreamer1 I don't think anyone is stupid, don't talk to them as if they are, and don't call them such. There I think I've covered all of the bases. I have explained how the Jeremiah verse that is being used incorrectly to attack Christmas here is actually supposed to be interpreted which is "in context". That is not twisting, that is UNtwisting. I have asked you to study Galatians. How does that twist anything? Anyway, I'm finding myself repeating that same points so I'm off. Cheers.
@EffieReal You definitely have your own way of thinking, I have not seen you call anyone stupid, but you do talk to others like they are. And again, Christmas is the only thing that fits the description of Jeremiah 10, There are other points of it that I need to go back and refresh myself on, but Christmas was originally started in the honor of a pagan queen's son centuries before Christ was born. I can look it up again and give you more details if you want.
I don't celebrate Christmas even though I am a biblical christian. And I don't do it exactly for the reasons you stated. But not all are informed, and not all are willing to do it simply because Jesus or Bible instructs it...
It seems to me that people are being worse than the Pharisees at times.
Jesus is about joy, happiness and good news - are you proclaiming the good news from his CONCEPTION to his birth, to his life and message to his death and resurrection? Does it all have to be gloom and doom? or can we celebrate BIRTH too! the BIRTH of our Lord and SAVIOUR is just as important as his resurrection for it is a sign of the GOOD NEWS for us all.
@wwwpower1 Very much so. However you need to be aware that Satan has a very cunning tactic. He mixes good and evil and serves the poison to unsuspecting and often gullible audience. If Christmas was all about and only about Jesus, His birth and His message I would be the first one to celebrate it. But unfortunately, not only that is not so, but in fact so much satanic garbage has been mixed in it's just not wise to swallow the whole package. So be wise, eat the meat and throw away the bones.
@wwwpower1 When was Jesus born? Jesus was alive for untold billions of years before he ever came to Earth so how do you celebrate his birth when you have no idea when he was born? John 3:13; John 6:38; John 8:23; 1Corinthians 15:47. So really it is clear from the bible that Jesus birth is really unkown to all but God himself. And the bible does talk about the day of ones birth at Ecclesiastes 7:1
Jeremiah 10:3-5 The customs of the peoples are worthless, they go out into the forest and chop down and evergreen tree, 4) they brace it up so it doesn't totter and decorate it with silver and gold.
What is this describing? Christmas!
5) Like a scarecrow, their idols cannot speak, they must be carried because they cannot walk.
Christmas trees are Idols!
Which God? The Lord Molech or Baal Molech. The tree represents his (and Osiris) 'member.' and his 'man reaction'
@Ivellios 23 nononono the christmas tree represents the first king of babylon who died and the place he died sprouted an evergreen tree leaving lil gifts on the bottom every year on the day he died. ANYWHOO its not just christmas christians should avoid. its the bible all together sense there is a lot of paganism ENFORCED by GOD himself in it. so its not just pagan holidays to be worried of. lol just leave christmas to us pagans when were the only ones who do it right
I must say that this man is right because in the book of Jeremiah it says not to do such things for it was paart of pagan worship and the tree and many other things dealt with overt sexuality amongst anyone( these people worshipped gods that supposedly promoted pre-marital sex unnatural sex the abortion of babies, etc.) one of the things that go against Christian teaching, We shouldn't be celebrating these holidays because we should be Preaching Christ and his gospel. Repent Be baptized ...
Another silly video demonstrating ignorance and out of context Bible quoting. Deut. was speaking specifically of the pagan practice of human sacrifice. Nothing in the Bible forbids celebrating the birth of the Savior. And since we don't know the exact date, Dec. 25 is as good as any. There was celebration of His birth in Luke 2, and there was praising of God for His birth by humans as well at the time of His birth. No reason why we can't do the same today. LOL.
@CRoadwarrior "Deut. was speaking specifically of the pagan practice of human sacrifice."
Assuming arguendo that this claim is true, is it your contention, therefore, that all other pagan practices may be employed in the worship of the biblical god?
@ProfMTH First of all, there is no assuming. The context there is clear enough for any honest person who READS the English text (I can read the original Hebrew). The point is, taking passages out of context makes up nonsense. The Deut. passage you use speaks specifically of human sacrifice and does not apply to all "pagan" practices. For example, pagans had "priests" and "altars" as well, but Israel ALSO had these. You would have been better off (but not really) trying to use Jeremiah 10.
I am trying to follow your comments because they interest me. You can read original Hebrew? in its entirety, any document presented or discourse with those of Jewish descent and scholars who spend their lives studying Aramaic and Hebrew and Middle Eastern languages?
@holyfamily5 I notice you removed your comment, but I can actually READ Hebrew, not just look things up in a Bible program. I've actually been to Israel. I started studying Hebrew years ago at Lincoln Square Synogogue in New York.
Do you understand Phoenician script? The modern Hebrew script was developed from a script known as Proto-Hebrew/Early Aramaic. The earliest known writing in Hebrew dates from the 11th century BC.
Seems to me one would take a decade or more to truly understand the original hebrew. Which University did you study this language and I would presume a foriegn facility is required to become proficient so as to debate with leading scholars of the ancestors of Hebrews..
@wwwpower1 When you open up a Hebrew Bible written in Hebrew, that is what I can read. It doesn't take a decade or more. You can learn the basics of Biblical Hebrew in about a year. Proficiency in reading, writing and speaking, now that can take decades. I study at Talbot Seminary under Dr. Tom Finley, who is the department head in the Hebrew department.
Thanks for explanation. Why I was asking, is that there are more than a few fundamentalist Christians who claim to understand original Hebrew, but do not take it further to understand that Hebrew then translated into English for true understanding can be tricky. IMHO. Not all scholars will agree on exact translations into English or any other language.
@wwwpower1 No problem. I understand the problem and I agree with you. I know that people will claim to "know" Hebrew when all they can do is look up a word on "Blue Letter Bible" or some program. Yes, Hebrew is not an easy language to understand, and some things can be ambiguous. But the key to Hebrew is context, like most languages. But what I've found is that Hebrew is VERY context dependant. So it becomes easier to misunderstand the OT if you take things out of context.
Thanks again. I appreciate the explanation. Context is very important, agreed. I don't know Hebrew and probably won't learn. However, I appreciate those who take the time to study.
I suppose you could test him? His claim seems legitimate. He is learning the language and did not say he was proficient in speaking or hearing or writing, but learning how to read it. That is a huge distinction.
@ProfMTH But even if you had used Jeremiah 10, you would have STILL been taking the passage way out of context, both in terms of literary and historical contexts. You SHOULD know better than this.
So you claim. Of couse, we don't have "the original Hebrew," so one wonders how you could read it. But you have a penchant for making claims that lack any basis in fact, so I'm not surprised by this one.
"The Deut. passage you use...does not apply to all "pagan" practices."
So, yes or no, please: Yahweh's devotees are free to use any and all pagan practices other than human sacrifice in their worship of Yahweh, is that correct?
@ProfMTH So I claim, and I have the grades on my graduate transcript to prove it. And let's not play the "we don't have the originals" argument. It's silly. I answered you question and even gave an example. Learn from it.
@CRoadwarrior "I have the grades on my graduate transcript to prove it."
Uh huh.
Still waiting for the direct "yes" or "no" answer to my question. (I know I'll NEVER get it, so this will be my last attempt.) It's your position that Yahweh's devotees are free to use any and all pagan practices other than human sacrifice in their worship of Yahweh, is that correct?
@ProfMTH Uh huh all day. But I can prove my claim. I don't just make claims I can't prove, unlike your special pleading, straw man video antics. As for your answer, I've given it. It's not a "yes" or "no" simple answer because it depends on the issues. Complex question fallacy. You have your answer, and I've shown you simply don't know how to keep a text in context.
@ProfMTH What makes a practice "pagan" is not necessarily that the DO something, it's the nature of what they do. For example, just because an atheist goes into a Walmart, that does not mean that I as a Christian should not go into Walmart because an atheist went in. LOL. Please, prof, and you are supposed to TEACH people? Where do you teach and what?
@ProfMTH You see, this is why I really don't take you seriously. While you sound rational and reasonable on most of your videos, and you make SOME valid points, overall your logic is fundamentally flawed and your research is worse.
@ProfMTH Of course. But I will say this for you, you do TRY to present intelligent, coherent and reasonable arguments, unlike others like "AmazingAtheist" and so many others. So I have more respect for you than these others. But even that respect is minimal - but it's better than nothing. LOL.
Okay, I don't know if you're an atheist or whatever, but if you don't share the same faith as others, why can't you leave them alone? Why can't you just believe what YOU believe and letting every other human being believe in what THEY believe in. Are you such a sociopath that you have to make a fool of yourself just to prove a point? Selfish fools like you are the reason why the world is full of hate and war. I hope that makes you feel good, since it's you goal anyway.
@D4L3TT3RDU1313LEU "Okay, I don't know if you're an atheist or whatever, but if you don't share the same faith as others, why can't you leave them alone? Why can't you just believe what YOU believe and letting every other human being believe in what THEY believe in."
For a number of reasons. Primary among them is that the religious are not content to leave everyone else alone, but rather spend much of their time sticking their noses into the lives and business of others--including me. ...
(con't) They work hard to deny people civil rights while demanding special rights for themselves and their religions. They somehow believe that their religious notions deserve some sort of special status. And there's a lot more.
Good Lord, what is wrong with everyone? ANY object in Creation - is a THING. It has no life or magical powers. ANY day is just a cycle of the sun going up and down. NOTHING more. It is ONLY what you desire to do with them. If Satanists came up with a delicious moose burger for the BBQ and sell it in grocery stores only on Anton Leveys birthday and worship Satan while eating it - I would buy one, thank Christ for such good food, and devour it on a bun. Just a burger with spices - NOTHING more...
firebirdhome 2 weeks ago
From what I have read, for the first few centuries of Christianity, Easter was the big celebration, and Jesus' birth, being divine, was downplayed. It is only within the last 300 years that Christmas has become an equal (if not more important) holiday than Easter in the lives of Christians.
markedwardindc 1 month ago
@markedwardindc Even if that were true, so what?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
3. As much as you try to argue it, gift giving has nothing to do with his birth, the wise men weren't even there at his birth, they arrived much later, and they weren't birthday gifts they were gifts meant for a king. 4.If celebrating his birth was so important, why doesn't the bible say to celebrate it, and why is his birth never mentioned again through the rest of the New Testament. 5. Christmas is more about our traditions at the expense of truth.
antijojo 2 months ago
To all those people who say that they celebrate Christmas because they want to celebrate the birth of their Saviour, I am going to throw the bullshit flag, 1.Christians are supposed to be about the truth, yet they deny that most scholars findings show he wasn't born on Dec 25, if it truly meant something to you, you would celebrate closer to when it actually happened. 2. Jesus was born into poverty, but yet the whole holiday is about excess, from gift giving to over eating.
antijojo 2 months ago
Every Christian I've discussed the pagan aspects of Christmas with has simply denied the pagan origins.
HyperSchmizzle 2 months ago
@HyperSchmizzle There are really only 2 ways for them to go: one is to deny the pagan origins (which is really the ridiculous, fact-denying way to go) and the other is to acknowledge the pagan origins and insist they don't matter. Of course, the second leads right back to what is said here in the video. When exactly did Yahweh say, "Meh, fuck it. Adopt all the pagan customs you want to worship me"?
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH That's just it. NO christian puts up a tree to worship God. These aren't religious traditions
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization Why do Christians put up trees at Christmas?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Societal traditions...
It's fun to do, brings the family together
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization OK, thanks. So just to be sure I understand, it's your contention that a Christian's including a pagan practice (which is what the Christmas tree was before it was imported into the celebration of Christmas) as part of a celebration that pertains to the biblical god (as Christmas is purported to) is OK as long as the practice is not used to worship the biblical god directly, is that correct? BTW, how would use of the Christmas tree differ if it were used to worship God directly?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH That's how I understand it. You can ask tektontv to make sure (PM him).
It would differ because it would break the laws you mentioned in the video.
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization "That's how I understand it."
Thanks.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH So do you accept that Christians can celebrate Christmas without breaking any OT or NT laws?
I'm sure that scholars have a pretty accurate understanding of what the indiviual passsages meant/were refering to so it's not ALL open to interpretaion.
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization "So do you accept that Christians can celebrate Christmas without breaking any OT or NT laws?"
lol Really? No, I don't accept that.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Why so? All the laws you mentioned are in reference to religious practices, which isn't what christians are doing. They aren't praying to the pagan gods...
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization It strikes me as exceedingly odd that so many Christians will acknowledge that the date of this celebration and its myriad trappings are all pagan religious practices imported into Christianity but somehow they cannot bring themselves to acknowlege that as a biblical matter this is a problem. Pagans celebrated December 25th as the dies natalis solis invicti, among other pagan religious festivals around the same time of year. In appropriating that date and celebration for the...
ProfMTH 1 month ago
(con't) celebration of Jesus' birthday (with many of the same practices)--a celebration that is not commanded anywhere in the Bible, BTW--Christians did precisely what Deuteronomy forbids, i.e., worshipping the biblical god in the ways the pagans worshipped their gods. I find it difficult to believe that this actually eludes you.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Well here we are again:
Christmas is about remembering and celebrating.
I don't think any Christian sees the festival as a way to worship God nor was it intended to be nor IS it in any way worshiping God.
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization "I don't think any Christian sees the festival as a way to worship God...."
How interesting that, just for example, Christians go to church on Christmas to worship their god in celebration of Jesus's birth. Is this just a coincidence? Are they not really worshipping their god when they do this? Here's a hint: you're trying and failing to defend a bogus distinction.
"nor was it intended to be"
Clearly, you are ignorant of the relevant history. Familiarize yourself with it.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH You misunderstand me. The pagan traditions aren't meant to worship God.
Christmas replaced the pagan festival you mentioned since monotheism was the way to go back then. Multiple religions would have split the state apart.
Although admittedly God would have been worshiped then and now. But again:
Pagan customs weren't part of the worshiping...
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization "Pagan customs weren't part of the worshiping"
Let's look at just two pagan customs relevant to this for a moment, namely, the pagan custom of celebrating the birth of a god and the pagan custom of celebrating that birth on December 25th. Christians looked at both pagan customs are imported them into Christianity as part of their worship of their god--the very thing Deuteronomy says believers in the biblical god are not supposed to do. Do you not see this?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Now that's actually an interesting point. It's true that commemoration isn't an israelic practice that I'm aware of (at least direct ones. They did celebratrate their exodus from Egypt with 7 food courses).
But again: commemoration isn't worship.
Furthermore Jesus was only God in the sense that:
a)he was His descendant
b)he was supernatural
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization So Christians don't worship their god on Christmas, is that correct?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Incorrect. All the pagan practices aren't meant to worship the Christian god.
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization So Christians *do* worship their god on Christmas. At last we're getting somewhere! So a pagan holiday that had been used to engage in the pagan custom of celebrating the birth of a god was imported into Christianity so that Christians could worship their god in celebration of the birth of their god-man, correct?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH You do actually have a point there. I'm not an expert on the subject but the only objection I can find for this is that the pagan custom was replaced and that the pagan customs were distorted (doing a disservice to the pagan gods).
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization "You do actually have a point there. I'm not an expert on the subject...."
Thank you.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Sure thing. Tektontv might know more on the subject, though
d007ization 1 month ago
@d007ization Sorry for the typos btw
d007ization 1 month ago
Thank you.
khrisb1 2 months ago
ONE CLUE IS GIVING IN THE BOOK OF LUKE!
ZACHARIA OF THE COURSE OF ABIA, CHECK IT OUT AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
YASHUAH MESSIAH WAS BORN IN THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES, SEPTEMBER!!
GOD TABERNACLES WITH MEN !! DECEMBER 25 IS THE CONCEPTION OF MARY!! 9
MONTHS LATER IS THE BIRTH OF EMANUEL= GOD WITH US ( YASHUAH MESSIAH )
YASHUAH= YEHOVAH SAVIOR!
Hvordanhardudet100 2 months ago
Dickie Valentine, nice.
cpqarray 2 months ago
@cpqarray ;-)
ProfMTH 2 months ago
Christmas is to celebrate God giving his Son to the world, thus Christmas is a celebration of generosity. I'm not a true believer, btw.
KayBeeEee1983 2 months ago
I can't go anywhere spiritually with Abrahamic Religions because they conflate tight-ass social restrictions with spirituality, completely bypassing the Mystical priniciple from which Spirituality is derived. Spirituality is not politically correct, nor does it seek to please the social order. Sheep!
MushroomedAnymore 2 months ago
@SRamdhani1 fair enough if you celebrate Jesus' birth, but there is no evidence that it was on the 25th of December. Indeed since there were shepherds in the fields it was more likely to have been in the spring or summer and almost definitely not in the middle of winter. I think it is too much of a coincidence that many pre-christian groups in the Roman Empire had celebrations at this time of year when they were forced to convert by the Emperor.
eddy6109 2 months ago
@eddy6109 I can't recall being told that Jesus was born on Dec.25. I know it is the date set aside to commemorate Jesus' birth.Many people differ their birthday celebrations sometimes. Every day of the week has pagan origins. Pagans worship almost anything. What if it is discovered that they worship clothes? Will you go naked & condemn those who wear them? The 'pagan origin' argument is a silly one.
SRamdhani1 2 months ago
I was so convicted (by the Holy Spirit) that Christmas, as we know it, is total nonsense, and offensive to God. Why would I mix my Lord's birthday in to the celebration of a babylonian sun god's? Somewhere, in order not to OFFEND pagans, the church "recast" Jesus in the role of Mithra. I find it repulsive.
Tink71165 3 months ago
I celebrate the birth of Christ, because without it, it's not possible for me to become a Christian.
GodIsSovereignty 3 months ago
@GodIsSovereignty True. When Jesus was born Heaven celebrated, the angels, the shepherds & the wise men also. Guess who didn't celebrate? Satan. He still doesn't, & want us to follow suit. But he wont catch me in that. Merry Christmas.
SRamdhani1 3 months ago
@SRamdhani1 Yes, my friend. The Heavenly hosts celebrated Christ's birthday. Satan still refuses today that Christ became flesh. Demons will reject that. And Satan's children, wolves in sheep skin, fight to reject it also. They claim to be God's children, but they are themselves children of the Devil.
GodIsSovereignty 3 months ago
STUPID CHRISTIANS!!!!
855842 4 months ago
Because it's fun, silly.
warterra 6 months ago
@warterra It's blasphemy. You're celebrating other gods.
shagoosty 6 months ago
wow,, i dont know a christian that celabrates christmas or any pagan holliday??. bad video.. last time i heard that athiests were lonely on christmas day.. athiests, dont worry you are ready to join the rest of us in not celebrating:) now we can not celebrate as one... see christians!!! athiests belive in the same things we do, they just need time to catch up with us:)
SuperVice123 8 months ago
@SuperVice123
So just because you don't personally know any Christians who celebrate Christmas, then no Christians ever celebrate Christmas and that means you're ahead of the curb? Really? Last I checked the Church I grew up with still celebrates Christmas every year. Maybe your sect doesn't celebrate the holiday, but that doesn't mean you're smarter and it certainly doesn't mean you have a better grasp of the truth than Churches that do. Ruling out when it didn't happen doesn't prove it did.
bdpickett 8 months ago
interesting point. I agree. However many of the customs/traditions practiced, and doctrines of Christianity were changed over time to suite the needs/motives of people. Therefore the religion as we know it today is not the way as it was intended. Since religion is organized and spread by people, it is inevitable that people will have their own interpretations on how they should practice it.
gmscorpio111691 10 months ago
merry winter solstice...even though right now it's spring time.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 10 months ago
And why there are 6 & 6 & 6 days in New Year Holidays?
25.XII-31.XII=6 days; 1.I-6.I=6 days; 7.I-12.I=6 days. The sum of Roman Numerals in: "Count New Year Holidays"=666. And the sum of letters of each "6-th day" in Hebrew יוֹם שִׁשִּׁי -[yom shishshi] is equal to 666.
Usually each week has six days, when we work as if we are gods creating a new world.
776AD 10 months ago
The 6-th day for someone is a Friday, muslims say it's a Holy Day, for others it is a Saturday, and for some people, the 6-th day is only in January 6 of each year, they say it's Christ's birthday, and the sum of letters in Arabic: يُوم سَادسَه-[youm sadisah]-"sixth day" and in Hebrew: יוֹם שִׁשִּׁי-[yom shishshi]-"sixth day" always is equal to 666.
776AD 10 months ago
I have often wondered the same thing, thanks for the video, maybe it will wake up those people who profess to be christian who keep unholy pagan days!
RudeAwakning 1 year ago
I was always wondering what reindeer had to do with Jesus....
imperator332 1 year ago
I'm an Christian, and I celebrate x-mas but I don't really equate the two in my head. To me the season is just an excuse to celebrate family and whatever fortune we had that year.
ForbiddenSecrets 1 year ago
Thanks for another great video
and an oppotunity to have a lovely slow-dance with the Misses.
Best wishes for the new year from snowy Copenhagen
-
X
Xigano1 1 year ago
@Xigano1 lol Thanks. Happy New Year to you and "the Misses." ;-)
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@Sairabebe23
Thank you, I am Christian and I also 100% agree with you.
May GOD peace be with us.
alfredosydney 1 year ago
That has been the best Video I have seen you present so far, among the other good arguments you put forth from time to time! but Christians that don't have any understanding celebrate these so called "Holidays" there is nothing Holy about them, actually people tend to be more shrewd during theses times. However for an Atheist who doesn't believe in GOD or gods celebrating Christmas is kinda like an Vegetarian who swears against meat but gets caught eating meat!
DualPortal 1 year ago
I guess people celebrate Christmas not only because they have gotten used to it but also because they do not want the younger generations to feel left out knowing that other kids except them are celebrating this so-called holiday. If there is a "spirit" of christmas, it's the spirit of the devil that feeds false happiness to those foolish enough to blend with today's society. Even if you drill the truth deep inside the lobe of their brain, people will continuously reject the truth for THE lie.
MoviesForKids 1 year ago
@MoviesForKids Right on my brother or sister !!!!
watchingme215 1 year ago
Pleasure to meet you. I am a Christian that does not Celebrate Christmas. Just to clarify, I am not a Jehovah's Witness, nor an ethnic Jew, nor a Muslim. I am an Evangelical Christian that does not Christmas. You are absolutely right to pose this question to us Christians. Thank you for making this video.
VeryImagesozo 1 year ago
@VeryImagesozo You're welcome.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@VeryImagesozo I am an Evangelical Christian who celebrates Christmas.Like The Feast of Purim in Esther 9 that the Jews CREATED we are free to celebrate it & like Communion, it doesn't have to be on the exact date.My former Pastor who Jesus appeared to twice also celebrated Christmas when he was alive. Why do we celebrate it? To give thanks to God for bringing Salvation to mankind. When Jesus was born Heaven celebrated, the angels, shepherds & the wise men too. Christmas is a phenomenon (cont'd)
SRamdhani1 3 months ago
@SRamdhani1 Christ appeared to your pastor twice? Really? Let's see that would be a second and third coming of Christ and we missed it. Luke 2:10 has nothing to do with the apostate Roman Catholic doctrine of the Mass - or Christ Mass (Christmas) (Doctrine of transubstation), Venus or Asteroth (Christmas tree), Baal, the pagan yule log or any other Christmas tradtion of that nature. Neither does Esther 9 have anything to do with it. Esther 9 does not associate paganism with God.
VeryImagesozo 3 months ago
@VeryImagesozo Are you saying that a Christian who celebrates Jesus' birth is worshipping pagan gods? Are you a doer of the Word or a Judge? You are disobeying Rom.14:1-13. Only God knows the heart, why are you judging another mas's servant? Esther 9 shows that we can honour God by celebrating a day or event even though it is not commanded in the Bible.You seem not to understand the difference between Jesus' coming to the world & his appearance to individuals or groups like the Disciples & Mary.
SRamdhani1 3 months ago
@SRamdhani1 No...I am not saying that if a Christian honors or celebrates the incarnation of Christ he is worshipping pagan Gods. I am saying that pagan traditions and rituals, ei Christmas, has nothing to do with the incarnation of Christ. They were not associating God with pagan Baal and the Grove rituals in Esther 9. The traditions we have at Christmas are the same traditions used in Baal and the Grove worship 4000 years ago and God punished Israel for it.
VeryImagesozo 3 months ago
@VeryImagesozo (cont'd) Christmas is a phenomenon based on Lk.2:10. Its message is associated with a spirit of GREAT JOY & came TO ALL PEOPLE. So it is to this day, hence the worldwide celebrations.This spirit of joy is from God & not Satan as some would have us to believe.This phenomenon confuses many but God is not confused. Why we celebrate? Like Jesus said to the Pharisees in Lk 19:40, "I tell you that,if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out." It's unstoppable.
SRamdhani1 3 months ago
@Sairabebe23: The Quran states " Blessed is the day that Jesus was born ".
Hazarat Marium is chosen to be above the women of all nations because of Christ's birth. Also Jesus is the only baby to be born of God's Word & Spirit. As such it is a imperative that all Muslims celebrate Christmas and I am not talking of any pagan festival but the birth of Christ..
fightingthepain 1 year ago
@Sairabebe23 "As a Muslim we are truly the only monotheistic religion in entirety."
Judaism is monotheistic. I'll grant you the doubt about Christianity--at least in its trinitarian expression.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Deut. 12 is usually reserved as a passage Xians use to slam Halloween. But it applies to Christmas and Easter. It's just that Xmas and Easter have been sufficiently co-opted by them.
Almamater8888 1 year ago
Lol, I've been doing research about Christmas and find it laughable that Christians have no idea they are breaking the 'Lords' commands. Luckily I'm not breaking any rules by celebrating Christmas! :-D
Mayuhito69 1 year ago
@Mayuhito69
Actually,
Christians most certainly should be celebrating Christmas - Christ's birth.
It does not matter that the exact date of Christs birth is not know, but only that the story of His birth is alive and celebrated.
Luke 1,2 Matthew 1 and 2 celebrate the birth through the shepherds - who proclaim this day and tell the good news.
And the Wise men pay tribute with gifts to the child Jesus in Matthew.
Christ's birth - is to be celebrated.
faithhopelovecor1313 1 year ago
@faithhopelovecor1313 "Luke 1,2 Matthew 1 and 2 celebrate the birth through the shepherds - who proclaim this day and tell the good news."
Would you please cite the passages in Matthew 1 and 2 that talk about shepherds being involved with or "celebrating" the birth of Jesus? Thanks.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Comment removed
Mayuhito69 1 year ago
@faithhopelovecor1313 Sorry to tell you but celebration of birthdays are not even acceptable in the eyes of your God.
There is no scriptures in the Bible that say it is okay to celebrate Christmas or birthdays. They bring him gifts as a young child not a baby as so many Christians believe.
You might want to do more studying because what you are doing is wrong. Celebrating any birthday is wrong as far as the Bible is concerned.
So in actuality you are not supposed to celebrate his birth.
Mayuhito69 1 year ago
@faithhopelovecor1313 Well where do Santa, Raindeers, Christmas Trees and etc come from? I thought in the bible it says to celebrate his death (do this in the remembrance of me). It is like with easter how can you associate a darn bunny and some eggs with Jesus death???
watchingme215 1 year ago
@watchingme215
Reindeer, Santa, Christmas trees all come from cultural norms from the respective countries, ie St. Nicholas or Kris Kringle. St. Nicholas was a real Bishop in 4th century who was kind to the poor.
Reindeer? exist in Finland and that area and are cultural significance around Christmas.
Americans adopted an assimilated version from several countries - to celebrate a time of year that is darkest.
Jesus is the light is what matters to Christians during Christmas.
faithhopelovecor1313 1 year ago
@faithhopelovecor1313 santa was invented by coka-cola, and he was once in a green suit.
Kdajrocks 1 year ago
Saint Nicholas - the Bishop of Myra in the 4th century wore red and robes of his clergy station.
Kris Kringle wore other types of dress.
And so it goes. By the time it came to commercializing Santa, people already had their image of him in their heads or from stories.
ever read "Twas the Night Before Christmas" because that is the root of the American Image of Santa.
If he was in a commercial for coca cola that came long after. Interesting if so. or if you jest, well so be it.
faithhopelovecor1313 1 year ago
@watchingme215
Easter comes from North Eastern Europeans and perhaps fertility rites. Google it there is plenty of information.
Christmas is not the actual date of Jesus birth, nor is Easter the actual date of his death.
Jesus died, but the FOCUS is on the FACT that JESUS conquered death and ROSE from the DEAD to ascend to Heaven and will come again to judge the living and the dead.
If families did not have details that surround Christmas, what is the point? another day.
faithhopelovecor1313 1 year ago
@watchingme215
But Christmas makes memories and most times it is mothers who make memories with baking and fathers with their skills at providing lights and scenes to ENHANCE the celebration.
Christians at times lose the significance. Aetheists are commercializing it at times. But MOST people I know from all walks make a firm point to stop the business of life and gather to celebrate and be thankful.
But of course as with anything, it gets out of hand to the real meaning for some.
faithhopelovecor1313 1 year ago
@watchingme215
the bunny is a sign of feritility. The eggs are a sign of fecundity. Those were pagan signs and incorporated into an Easter celebration along with spring rites. Which are evident all around us in Spring.
Jesus birth in winter, helps us see light and hope in the dark. Jesus resurrection in the spring is a symbol of life that resurrects from dark winters.
It is pagan, but simultaneously symbolic, that is why it is incorporated for Christian worship. IMHO>
faithhopelovecor1313 1 year ago
Because most "Christians" are not really Christians... The majority of whom also believe in pagan influenced doctrine such as "Eternal Torment in Hell", "Life After Death Without Being Physically Resurrected", etc...
DeathUntoLife 1 year ago
A Christian that agrees :) thanks... If you follow John the Baptist's birth and that Mary had Christ at harvest time, you kinda figure out around the month he was born...and it's not December, same with Easter, more pagan crap dogma. And this is why Catholic are pagans, also keep the Sabbath Christians...
therepentantmouth 1 year ago
Christmas is purely pagan, but almost impossible to avoid. I am going to try very hard this year again.
fuzzynubbins 1 year ago
Yup Christmas is pagan to the core and if 'Christians' would just pick up their bibles and discern they'd know. The Lord will teach those who are His...
cac0017 1 year ago
@cac0017 No, the bible says esteem a day or don't , it's up to you so long as you do it unto the Lord. That's what the Bible says. Romans 14. Don't get caught up in outward appearances (self-righteousness). God sees the heart. You and I do not. These legalistic, derision-creating, anti-Christmas, unloving videos do more to harm the body than help it. They also forward world-views of the cults, which creates bondage.
EffieReal 1 year ago
Funny shit Christimas was made by the Pagans it was a celebration of the winter solstice, and the Christians wanted to make Paganism obsolete, fucking hypocrites.
CyrLiam 1 year ago
Inside the scriptures document there Is actually a book stating the very significance of this exact holiday describing It's paganism. a demon god Saturnus correct me If Im wrong but the holidays original name Saturnalia. I can't find the video telling these verses on youtube so far anymore. but I think the book Is Leviticus. If I'm wrong keep searching here on youtube for the verses. search engine: The Truth About Christmas.
illkill9 1 year ago
Maybe because even if Christ was born in September, Minuse that -9 months gives use sometime around late December of his Conception which is where Life Begins to the Jewish believers. Even if there were pagan influences I am sure they no longer apply and has a greater importance in remembering his story.
studentdebts 1 year ago
Jer 10:2 Thus saith YHVH, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
ramirez509 1 year ago
Not all Christians celebrate Christmas, If you look at Jeremiah Chapter 10, it describes, not only Christmas, but similar holidays by other faiths, and God says clearly, don't do it. Some Christians do read the bible and follow it, they are far and few between though.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 "Not all Christians celebrate Christmas."
I know. This video was addressed to those who do.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Yea, it is sad, I have tried talking to others about it and they usually get angry.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
No, the bible says esteem a day or don't , it's up to you so long as you do it unto the Lord. That's what the Bible says. Romans 14. Don't get caught up in outward appearances (self-righteousness). God sees the heart. You and I do not. These legalistic, derision-creating, anti-Christmas, unloving videos do more to harm the body than help it. They also forward world-views of the cults, which creates bondage.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal And by "these videos" I'm more speaking of Christians making videos bashing Christmas than this one in particular.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal I'm not sure of what your trying to say here.
Are you saying that Romans 14 says we can dismiss Jeremiah 10? That we can decide what parts of God's word is good for us, and we can through away the rest? To esteem a day or not, does that mean we can esteem a day God said not to celebrate? It's okay to disobey God's word on something as long as we twist scripture to show it is okay in another place? Please elaborate.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 I'm saying that you cannot dismiss the New Covenant by going back to the Old Covenant and forcing post-Gospel legalism into the lives of free believers, lest you crucify Christ daily.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal I never dismissed the New Covenant, what gave you that idea? Besides, I'm not forcing anyone to accept anything I say, so saying I'm crucifying Christ daily is not an accurate description. Are you thinking that the old testament has no value?
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 I know the OT has value, but I don't think you know WHY it has value. I have already explained this. Besides, my point was made 3 post ago. So, this is getting circular and dull. If you are trying to force people to follow certain Old Covenant rules (and your version of them at that) you are indeed dismissing the New Covenant. We live under Grace. The entire book of Galatians makes this case. Also, to try to live under the law is to be spiritually adulterous, Romans 7.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal I believe it is you that lacks understanding here, the point that I got three posts ago was that you seem to be taking the judgment of God for yourself. There is only one aspect of the Old testament that was done away with, that was the punishment for sins at that time. But the things that God said is a sin still stands, If you read enough you will see that God says he is an unchanging God. Your point of view seems to make him and his word changeable.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 Nope, you are taking God's judgments out of context, applying a new meaning, and dismissing the Gospel all in one fell swoop.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal I'm telling the truth, but like all pharisees, you can't stand it.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 So you also don't know the meaning of "Pharisee". You are attempting to force laws (and misunderstood ones at that) onto free Christians. THAT is the quintessential example of a modern-day-Pharisee. I'm sorry, but you simply don't have enough understanding to debate and your attempts name-calling is even nonsensical as it is completely backwards.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 BTW, I'm not accusing you of not "telling the truth" as you believe it to be. I'm simply pointing out where you are colossally missing the teachings of the New Covenant. Please, for your sake and the sake of those you come in contact with in the future, study Galatians and Romans. You will not be disappointed. :)
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal You have a picky memory, you are the one that started with being insulting, if you can't take a bloody nose, then don't start a fight. You want to accuse me of trying to laws, I never mentioned a law here. I mentioned only a sin that God said not to do, keep your facts straight or shut up. The teachings in the new testament don't over power the old like you seem to be insinuating, they compliment each other.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 "...insulting" Nope. "bloody nose" moi? Nope again. "Fight" ha! Re: "Laws" the entire OT is considered the "Law". This is about terminology not eschatology. Re: the "sin" you "simply pointed out", as explained, you have a thorough misunderstanding of the "sin" you are trying to reference in the first place. IE nothing to do with Christmas trees. My facts are straight, but thanks for the attempted censorship. The teachings in the new covenant DO overpower the old! Galatians,read it.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal Your not paying attention, I never said the new COVENANT doesn't overpower the old COVENANT. I said the new TESTAMENT doesn't overpower old TESTAMENT, they are two very different things I'm talking about. (And yes, you are insulting) And again yes, it is talking about the Christmas tree, what else fits the description?
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@EffieReal Is it your belief that Christians are free to employ pagan practices in their worship of their god?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH If a Christian is worshiping God "in Spirit and in Truth" then they are not employing pagan practice not matter who employed them for non-Christian uses. Just as a Christian employs a wedding band in a Christian marriage. This is/was supposedly a pagan practice. It's not pagan if YOU aren't pagan. I hope that's clear enough. Again, in the history of my culture, my country and my family and most importantly myself, Christmas is a Christian holiday. We are not following Paganism.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal "It's not pagan if YOU aren't pagan."
Funny how the biblical god changed his mind on that.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH That made me laugh.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 I'm sure Pharisees laugh at people frequently.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal Then what makes a Pharisee like you laugh?
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 "That made me laugh."
;-)
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Nope.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal See what you started now? lol
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@EffieReal "Nope."
"Nope" what? The biblical god did *not* change his mind about pagan practices being employed to worship him? If that's your claim, you either haven't read the Bible or you're nuts.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@EffieReal If Christmas is a Christian holiday, then why did God say not to do it in the book of Jeremiah centuries before Christ was born?
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 He didn't. That's your Twistianity.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal You can't twist scripture against people that know it, but you are really trying!
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 You lack understanding and will be prayed for. Be prepared to have your paradigm shaken. Peace and love. :)
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal My understanding is fine, your apparent need for talking to others like they are stupid seems to be your only drive here. You also can't seem to stand it when your wrong but won't acknowledge it.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 Jeremiah is not about Christmas trees , it's not more plain than that. Nor is it about "Pagan components" (sorry, I can't recall which of you made up that descriptor). It's simply about having another god before the real God (in context) it's about idol worship...worship, not having some vague similarity of practice to a culture that you are not at all emulating or a religion that you are not all adhering to. I have not accused anyone of stupidity. I am using big words here.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal I didn't say the words "pagan components" but where do you seperate "heathen and pagan"? I also never said that you called anyone stupid, stay on track here, I said you talk to others like they are stupid. You seem to like to twist what others say to your vision of the conversation. You also seem to do the same thing with scripture.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
@fundreamer1 I don't think anyone is stupid, don't talk to them as if they are, and don't call them such. There I think I've covered all of the bases. I have explained how the Jeremiah verse that is being used incorrectly to attack Christmas here is actually supposed to be interpreted which is "in context". That is not twisting, that is UNtwisting. I have asked you to study Galatians. How does that twist anything? Anyway, I'm finding myself repeating that same points so I'm off. Cheers.
EffieReal 1 year ago
@EffieReal You definitely have your own way of thinking, I have not seen you call anyone stupid, but you do talk to others like they are. And again, Christmas is the only thing that fits the description of Jeremiah 10, There are other points of it that I need to go back and refresh myself on, but Christmas was originally started in the honor of a pagan queen's son centuries before Christ was born. I can look it up again and give you more details if you want.
fundreamer1 1 year ago
I don't celebrate Christmas even though I am a biblical christian. And I don't do it exactly for the reasons you stated. But not all are informed, and not all are willing to do it simply because Jesus or Bible instructs it...
mrdokma 1 year ago
Luke 2:1-20
Luke 2:20
"20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, just as it had been told to them."
Our we all shepherds to proclaim that same good news of Jesus birth?
wwwpower1 1 year ago
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wwwpower1 1 year ago
It seems to me that people are being worse than the Pharisees at times.
Jesus is about joy, happiness and good news - are you proclaiming the good news from his CONCEPTION to his birth, to his life and message to his death and resurrection? Does it all have to be gloom and doom? or can we celebrate BIRTH too! the BIRTH of our Lord and SAVIOUR is just as important as his resurrection for it is a sign of the GOOD NEWS for us all.
wwwpower1 1 year ago
@wwwpower1 Very much so. However you need to be aware that Satan has a very cunning tactic. He mixes good and evil and serves the poison to unsuspecting and often gullible audience. If Christmas was all about and only about Jesus, His birth and His message I would be the first one to celebrate it. But unfortunately, not only that is not so, but in fact so much satanic garbage has been mixed in it's just not wise to swallow the whole package. So be wise, eat the meat and throw away the bones.
mrdokma 1 year ago
@wwwpower1 When was Jesus born? Jesus was alive for untold billions of years before he ever came to Earth so how do you celebrate his birth when you have no idea when he was born? John 3:13; John 6:38; John 8:23; 1Corinthians 15:47. So really it is clear from the bible that Jesus birth is really unkown to all but God himself. And the bible does talk about the day of ones birth at Ecclesiastes 7:1
ladivadivala 1 year ago
Jeremiah 10:3-5 The customs of the peoples are worthless, they go out into the forest and chop down and evergreen tree, 4) they brace it up so it doesn't totter and decorate it with silver and gold.
What is this describing? Christmas!
5) Like a scarecrow, their idols cannot speak, they must be carried because they cannot walk.
Christmas trees are Idols!
Which God? The Lord Molech or Baal Molech. The tree represents his (and Osiris) 'member.' and his 'man reaction'
Ivellios23 1 year ago
@Ivellios 23 nononono the christmas tree represents the first king of babylon who died and the place he died sprouted an evergreen tree leaving lil gifts on the bottom every year on the day he died. ANYWHOO its not just christmas christians should avoid. its the bible all together sense there is a lot of paganism ENFORCED by GOD himself in it. so its not just pagan holidays to be worried of. lol just leave christmas to us pagans when were the only ones who do it right
Belindagirl13 1 year ago
filled with the Hooly Ghost (Acts 2:38) in order to achieve salvation! No such thing as once saved always saved!
domipapiboy09 1 year ago
I must say that this man is right because in the book of Jeremiah it says not to do such things for it was paart of pagan worship and the tree and many other things dealt with overt sexuality amongst anyone( these people worshipped gods that supposedly promoted pre-marital sex unnatural sex the abortion of babies, etc.) one of the things that go against Christian teaching, We shouldn't be celebrating these holidays because we should be Preaching Christ and his gospel. Repent Be baptized ...
domipapiboy09 1 year ago
Another silly video demonstrating ignorance and out of context Bible quoting. Deut. was speaking specifically of the pagan practice of human sacrifice. Nothing in the Bible forbids celebrating the birth of the Savior. And since we don't know the exact date, Dec. 25 is as good as any. There was celebration of His birth in Luke 2, and there was praising of God for His birth by humans as well at the time of His birth. No reason why we can't do the same today. LOL.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior "Deut. was speaking specifically of the pagan practice of human sacrifice."
Assuming arguendo that this claim is true, is it your contention, therefore, that all other pagan practices may be employed in the worship of the biblical god?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH First of all, there is no assuming. The context there is clear enough for any honest person who READS the English text (I can read the original Hebrew). The point is, taking passages out of context makes up nonsense. The Deut. passage you use speaks specifically of human sacrifice and does not apply to all "pagan" practices. For example, pagans had "priests" and "altars" as well, but Israel ALSO had these. You would have been better off (but not really) trying to use Jeremiah 10.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior
I am trying to follow your comments because they interest me. You can read original Hebrew? in its entirety, any document presented or discourse with those of Jewish descent and scholars who spend their lives studying Aramaic and Hebrew and Middle Eastern languages?
wwwpower1 1 year ago
@wwwpower1 I was speaking of the original Biblical Hebrew, which is different from today's conversational Hebrew.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Comment removed
holyfamily5 1 year ago
@holyfamily5 I notice you removed your comment, but I can actually READ Hebrew, not just look things up in a Bible program. I've actually been to Israel. I started studying Hebrew years ago at Lincoln Square Synogogue in New York.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Do you understand Phoenician script? The modern Hebrew script was developed from a script known as Proto-Hebrew/Early Aramaic. The earliest known writing in Hebrew dates from the 11th century BC.
Seems to me one would take a decade or more to truly understand the original hebrew. Which University did you study this language and I would presume a foriegn facility is required to become proficient so as to debate with leading scholars of the ancestors of Hebrews..
wwwpower1 1 year ago
@wwwpower1 When you open up a Hebrew Bible written in Hebrew, that is what I can read. It doesn't take a decade or more. You can learn the basics of Biblical Hebrew in about a year. Proficiency in reading, writing and speaking, now that can take decades. I study at Talbot Seminary under Dr. Tom Finley, who is the department head in the Hebrew department.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior
Thanks for explanation. Why I was asking, is that there are more than a few fundamentalist Christians who claim to understand original Hebrew, but do not take it further to understand that Hebrew then translated into English for true understanding can be tricky. IMHO. Not all scholars will agree on exact translations into English or any other language.
Commendable to be sure. Thanks for explanation.
wwwpower1 1 year ago
@wwwpower1 No problem. I understand the problem and I agree with you. I know that people will claim to "know" Hebrew when all they can do is look up a word on "Blue Letter Bible" or some program. Yes, Hebrew is not an easy language to understand, and some things can be ambiguous. But the key to Hebrew is context, like most languages. But what I've found is that Hebrew is VERY context dependant. So it becomes easier to misunderstand the OT if you take things out of context.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior
Thanks again. I appreciate the explanation. Context is very important, agreed. I don't know Hebrew and probably won't learn. However, I appreciate those who take the time to study.
wwwpower1 1 year ago
@wwwpower1 "I don't know Hebrew"
Neither does CRoadwarrior.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH
I suppose you could test him? His claim seems legitimate. He is learning the language and did not say he was proficient in speaking or hearing or writing, but learning how to read it. That is a huge distinction.
wwwpower1 1 year ago
@ProfMTH But even if you had used Jeremiah 10, you would have STILL been taking the passage way out of context, both in terms of literary and historical contexts. You SHOULD know better than this.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior "I can read the original Hebrew."
So you claim. Of couse, we don't have "the original Hebrew," so one wonders how you could read it. But you have a penchant for making claims that lack any basis in fact, so I'm not surprised by this one.
"The Deut. passage you use...does not apply to all "pagan" practices."
So, yes or no, please: Yahweh's devotees are free to use any and all pagan practices other than human sacrifice in their worship of Yahweh, is that correct?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH So I claim, and I have the grades on my graduate transcript to prove it. And let's not play the "we don't have the originals" argument. It's silly. I answered you question and even gave an example. Learn from it.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior "I have the grades on my graduate transcript to prove it."
Uh huh.
Still waiting for the direct "yes" or "no" answer to my question. (I know I'll NEVER get it, so this will be my last attempt.) It's your position that Yahweh's devotees are free to use any and all pagan practices other than human sacrifice in their worship of Yahweh, is that correct?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Uh huh all day. But I can prove my claim. I don't just make claims I can't prove, unlike your special pleading, straw man video antics. As for your answer, I've given it. It's not a "yes" or "no" simple answer because it depends on the issues. Complex question fallacy. You have your answer, and I've shown you simply don't know how to keep a text in context.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@ProfMTH What makes a practice "pagan" is not necessarily that the DO something, it's the nature of what they do. For example, just because an atheist goes into a Walmart, that does not mean that I as a Christian should not go into Walmart because an atheist went in. LOL. Please, prof, and you are supposed to TEACH people? Where do you teach and what?
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@ProfMTH You see, this is why I really don't take you seriously. While you sound rational and reasonable on most of your videos, and you make SOME valid points, overall your logic is fundamentally flawed and your research is worse.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior "As for your answer, I've given it. It's not a "yes" or "no" simple answer because it depends on the issues."
Of course.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Of course. But I will say this for you, you do TRY to present intelligent, coherent and reasonable arguments, unlike others like "AmazingAtheist" and so many others. So I have more respect for you than these others. But even that respect is minimal - but it's better than nothing. LOL.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Okay, I don't know if you're an atheist or whatever, but if you don't share the same faith as others, why can't you leave them alone? Why can't you just believe what YOU believe and letting every other human being believe in what THEY believe in. Are you such a sociopath that you have to make a fool of yourself just to prove a point? Selfish fools like you are the reason why the world is full of hate and war. I hope that makes you feel good, since it's you goal anyway.
D4L3TT3RDU1313LEU 1 year ago
@D4L3TT3RDU1313LEU "Okay, I don't know if you're an atheist or whatever, but if you don't share the same faith as others, why can't you leave them alone? Why can't you just believe what YOU believe and letting every other human being believe in what THEY believe in."
For a number of reasons. Primary among them is that the religious are not content to leave everyone else alone, but rather spend much of their time sticking their noses into the lives and business of others--including me. ...
ProfMTH 1 year ago
(con't) They work hard to deny people civil rights while demanding special rights for themselves and their religions. They somehow believe that their religious notions deserve some sort of special status. And there's a lot more.
"Selfish fools like you...."
::yawn:: Go fuck yourself, moron.
ProfMTH 1 year ago