Being very young, naive, and foolish at the time, LOL, I thought if anyone was finally going to get Sea The Stars in one of these major G1 stakes races that this would be the day. With Ballydoyle and Sir Michael Stoute both throwing pacemakers into this race, i.e., Malibu Bay and Lang Shining, I though they'd go such a good clip on the front end that it would set the finish up perfectly for Conduit to thunder home. But like I said before, I was naive and foolish then, and quickly learned better.
@Target922, Totally agree with you about Jim McGrath's race calls, 110%!! Love to hear him call the big races. His commentary in the Arc De Triomphe every years is simply the best!!
People bash the likes of Workforce and then praise Sea the Stars but Workforce beat the likes of Fame and Glory and Youmzain(Sea the Stars beat FAG in the Irish Champion and Derby and Youzmain in the Arc) in the Arc even easier then what Sea the Stars did during his career LOL
@debbider Are you for real? How can a horse who won a GR1 every month for 6 months be classed as overrated? How many other thoroughbred racehorse have completed the Guineas/Derby/Arc treble? The answer is none. Do you not understand how hard it is to complete that treble? Overrated don't make Me laugh. I was lucky to see Dancing Brave growing up watching racing and I didnt think I'd see a better horse. Sea The Star is a once in a lifetime horse. You won't see that treble of races completed for..
@ASupremeOwl How about Lammtarra's Derby/King George/Arc treble? That should be considered as the real treble. And he's undefeated. He just ran one race and then went to the Derby without much preparation and proof, but won it in track record(was broken by Workforce last year). I'm not one of those who think STS is overrated, but "a horse of a lifetime" is a little bit exaggerated, probably a horse of his generation/decade would be more suitable. Besides DB, don't forget Peintre Celebre.
@szetotakwa I actually dont think the Derby/King George/Arc treble should be considered the real treble, because a guineas is a classic and over 1m, it shows how versatile a horse is if it has the speed to beat horses like delegator over a mile then step up and beat the worlds best 1m4f horses, and judging by what won 2009 king george (conduit) i think STS would have won the king george if he went to it.
@debbider A long time from now. Clearly just another idiotic internet poster with no racing knowledge whatsoever. Who did Workforce beat in his Derby really? Rewilding would be the only horse of any decent calibre. The only horse still from that race to win a Gr1 after Epsom its possibly one of the weakest fields ever assembled in a Derby that I can remember. Sea The Stars saw off Fame And Glory, Rip Van Winkle. Mastercraftsman, Debussy all Gr1 winning colts after Epsom. Clueless you are
I know that Aidan O'Brien has been trying to use Ryan Moore as much as his schedule with SMS will allow in big G1 races that Ballydoyle has entries in, and Jamie Spencer has been primarily riding F&G and Cape Blanco now that part of both of them have been sold to the lady that Spencer rides for. But before I'd want to see Ballydoyle take on Jamie Spencer to replace Johnny Murtagh? I'd rather see them take a chance with Jimmy Fortune. He did right by Rip in this race, IMO.
this race is a prime example of a horse going too early for home and was a sitting duck but was still good enough to repell good horses. few horses wouldve won this race imo. had sts been held up in this race he wouldve won this race under a hand ride,the horse was a machine whose achievements might never be repeated. best since the great dancing brave.
Brilliant horse, best since Dancing Brave. If RVW didnt get the clip down the nose off Kinane this might of went to a photo IMO, RVW was just getting to STS. On this performance I dont think STS would of beat Dancing Brave though or one or two other Eclipse winners.
to many of you on here, if you cannot appreciate this horse, you simply dont know very much about horse racing, and thats a simple fact, hes a 3yr old that won 2 classics, beat every horse put in front of him, won a gp1 each each month and remained unbeaten as a 3 yr old and yet u still crab him?is this a wind up? and one argument is particularly hilarious , insinuating that oxx was afraid to run him in the KG (that conduit won and got stuffed TWICE BY STS), i hope these people dont bet ffs! gl
for me and always sea the stars is an all time great for what he done in those special 6 months... it would not have mattered about speed or who else was in the race.... he was a very clever and talented horse... from what i see of this race mick kinane did not intend to do anything but ride sea the stars...........
he DIDNT accelerate really...if u look very close at 3 43 or 3 44 when rip van got really close to him, see the stars jockey whips him and almost whips rip van winkle in the face, which made him check and pull out a lil and lose the charge...
Sea The Stars won every G1 put in front of him from 8 to 10 to 12f how many G1's did Montjeu and Galileo win under 12f? Zero. Lets have a look at Sea The Stars 1 G1 at a mile, three at 1m2f and two at 1m4f. Anyone who doubts Sea The Stars are idiots and you will find Ballydoyle DID change there tactics to get him beat, man people talk SHIT
i dont believe sea the stars is the best horse we have seen in this generation. people are forgetting horses like montjeu, galileo. they were superstars. everytime sea the star won what did he actually beat. the other jockeys we not even trying different tactics to try and get this horse beaten.
i dont believe sea the stars is the best horse we have seen in this generation. people are forgetting horses like montjeu, galileo. they were superstars. everytime sea the star won what did he actually beat. the other jockeys we not even trying different tactics to try and get this horse beaten.
@botelho27 You're right that there are other superstars who would have given him a race, but jockeys didn't try different tactics? At York it was Mastercraftsman and 2 Ballydoyle pacemakers vs. STS in a 4 horse race, and they let Mastercraftsman kick early. In the Derby they sat off him with Fame&Glory, then in Ireland surrounded and let Fame get first run on him. Fame then pocketed him in the Arc. They set suicidal paces for the Juddmonte and Irish Champion, and crawled in the Derby...
@botelho27 \look we could crab any horse in hostory by asking what he beat? The Guineas, Derby, King George and Arc are arguably the indeed probably unarguably the 4 most prestigious races of the European season. He won them all. What do we want?
@tigerarmyrule STS didn't run in the KG! Oxx didn't fancy STS taking on the older horses over 12f at that time of the season so he swerved it preferring the 'challenge' of the 10.4f Juddmonte against a miler and 2 AOB pacemakers.
@Newworldman66 I accept correction on the King George Newworld but still the reality is he lined up in the Guineas, Derby and Arc. Top 3 year olds avoid the KG as a matter of routine now. He appeared in 6 top class Group one races.
If Rip Van Winkle did get a smack on the chops, part of the blame must also go to Murtagh, as well as Kinane, for being so tight to Sea The Stars. Watch the Punchestown Champion Hurdle 2009, how Punjabi tightened in on Solwhit on the rail. Leaving Russell unable to use his whip. Sportsmanship?! History has shown that the superior horse won anyway.
Not being fussy but Jimmy Fortune actually rode RVW this day, unsure where murtagh was must have been banned or riding in ireland? but that was the closest any of the ballydoyle actually got to beating STS and i do agree that RVW got a slap with kinanes whip but then watching STS next 3 races it looked like he would have beaten them regardless of what happened on this day
There really are some muppets on here, I've seen on many STS video's people commenting about this horse or looking for a way to talk down his victories. This is horse racing do you really expect there to be no contact whatsoever? If there was some serious contact in this race from Kinane im sure there would have been a stewards enquiry, Give it a rest its embarrasing. Sea The Stars is the best 3 year old since Dancing Brave end of story!
Sea the stars is a true great, never mind all the mumbo jumbo everyone has commented on here, you could talk about ratings and compare horses all day long but every horse has its likeable qualitys to every individual.To me, sea the stars is the best 3yr old colt of the last 20 years. Also, i was at sandown for the eclipse, with a superb view of the last 3 1/2 furlongs and sea the stars no way touched R V W , sea the stars picked up after jonny murtagh lost his rythym in the straight,
@horseracingfan LOL...in their own back yards? You make it sound like the English horse raced on those tracks all the time.
Racing is an international sport now, which is why English and French horses regularly win the Irish classics and in fact 2 fillies trained in England have actually won the Irish Derby in the last 20 years.
On the subject of this race though, anyone notice RvW getting a smack across the head by Kinane's whip at about 3:47 that seemed to check his run?
@amazed66 I mentioned the whip across RVW's at 3.47 in a post a few weeks ago where I dared to suggest that STS didn't quicken again as it was more a case of RVW's momentum being checked. I was promptly accused of being delusional and blinkered by self appointed racing guru and STS fanboi Thefightingcelt. I don't really see how pointing out something that clearly happened is being blinkered but his posts often contain unintentional irony.
@Newworldman66 people sometimes have a perception or mind's eye view of events & see it one way & so if anyone offers up an alternative version then they tend to still feel their own one is the correct one.
I personally think if someone offered up something different to what I thought then I'd take a second look if only to satisfy my own curiosity but if they were to be specific with their details, then I would probably take even more notice. The 3:47 part is fairly specific. :)
@Newworldman66 In your mind it happened. It did not ! Kinane did come perilously close, I admit, but he did not touch RVW, a fact which was later borne out by Johnny Murtagh. Sea The Stars did quicken again, so get over yourself, plonker. If I'm a guru, then I'll take that - it only highlights the low class of ill-informed opponent I'm up against. : )
...else could have won the arc like he did pulling an absolutes train for alot of the race and then power away at the 300M mark, it was insane ive never seen anything like that before and ive seen dancing braves races!pulled like a train and won like he did, i couldnt believe it!amazing animal! and as i said inevitable, modern breeding, training, facilities,technology all plays a factor nowadays and it will continue to,and maybe in 20yrs we might see him surpassed but until then,hes the greatest
....(STS) came along!i know its hard but it has to be said, nostalgia and old memories can sometimes bias our opinions and imo, just my opinion, that this is evident esp among horse racing fans!but this horse was the real deal, his times were excellent, he was unbeatable from a mile to 12f and thats regardless of how the race was run , which shows how versatile and complete a race horse he really is!he won a series of races that has never been achieved before even by past greats!!tell me, who...
lads its inevitable that a horse was going to come along and better the efforts of previous titans of the game and it will continue to happen as time goes on!sure DB, NASHWAN, MILL REEF, and anyone else u wanna stick in there brilliant brilliant horses, DB the benchmark imo but there is now a new benchmark and thats STS!his 3yr old record is flawless, COULD NOT BE BEATEN and his arc run was the most impressive of all after a long and tiring season, its just not done!never had been until he.....
He's such an overrated horse. He didn't possess anything except a momentary burst of speed. Every single one of his races is evidence of this. Just because a horse wins all of his races doesn't by itself make him a great horse. His best performance was his Arc, but even in that race he was being caught again near the line. He was the best horse in a good but unexceptional year.
I would have bet any amount of money, with maximum confidence, that Sea The Stars would have beaten Dancing Brave over any distance. Remember too that C4 racing and Racing UK were aware of the comparisons between STS and Dancing Brave - and Nashwan. They then set out to illustrate what STS would ( in theory ) have done to both had they met. After running VTs of 86 and 89 Eclipse side by side with this, the concensus was that Sea The Stars would have left Nashwan and Dancing Brave toiling.
@ThefightingCelt How much would that be then £2.50? A whole week's pocket money? So you're resorting to the CH4 racing team for back up - the very antonym of a brains trust! Who'd have thought that they would apply simpleton's logic with such intelligentsia!! Perhaps they should also have run the VT of Guy Harwood's Kalaglow spin around Sandown as part of their 'analysis' but then that would spoil their conclusion.
@Newworldman66 Of course, you're absolutely right. Jim McGrath, Nick Luck, Steve Mellish and Graham Cunningham have all got it completely wrong. How could any horse, let alone Sea The Stars ( who afterall only won every group one race he entered and bettered every race time Dancing Brave ever set ) be superior ? In your tiny mind it doesn't happen. Therefore, I suggest you go and lie down and dream some more about that 1986 Arc. Afterall, it is how you get your rocks off, is it not ? LOL.
@ThefightingCelt A better description of a tiny mind would be someone who a makes a point, has it shot to pieces and can only respond by repeating the original point. Cherry picking times that suit your premise but ignoring those that don't makes your argument dishonest and therefore without merit. A theory has to be applied uniformly or not at all. You can repeat your premise ad nauseam if wish but it will never make it true.
@Newworldman66 Exactly what you DO ! You can state ad nauseum how much better you think Dancing Brave was to any horse who has ever set foot on a racecourse - although you have with nothing concrete or factual to back it up - yet it does not make it true. I have stated one overriding fact - STS WAS, as records show, a faster horse over middle distances than Dancing Brave. No amount of spin, crying or throwing your dummy out the pram can alter that FACT.
@ThefightingCelt So how do you explain the handicappers' decision to award both horses a rating of 140 ? Do you think you're wiser than the handicappers ? Times mean nothing anyway. Didn't Workforce set a new record time for the Derby this year ? Is he already the best horse of all time ? Anyway, let's see those stats. Give us a link to the relevant info.
I don't think it takes away from STS's greatness at all that he never won any of his races by a huge margin. Quite the contrary. He could set anywhere in a race. Then when the gap's appeared, he had the gears needed to shoot right through an opening, and enough stamina and turn of foot to propel himself to victory. You don't reel off winning the 2000 Guneas, Epsom Derby, Coral Eclipse, Juddmonte International Stakes, Irish Champion Stakes, and the Arc without having some great ability. JMO.
How on earth can you say Sea The Stars' turn of foot was overrated?! Hahahahahaha!!!
You just saw Rip Van Winkle absolutely accelerate up on the outside of Sea The Stars so Kinane just took him up another gear and RVW simply had no answer.
7 Group 1's in a row is pretty spectacular considering he 'didn't have something extra'.
@forsoup Kinane didn't take STS 'up another gear'. As RVW got to about half a length off STS, Kinane waived his whip in front of RVW causing him to flinch then veer to his left so checking his momentum. There was no extra burst of acceleration from STS.
@Newworldman66 Do you think Rip would ever beat STS?The reason he jinked,like most horses,was because he was tired and defeated,not in my opinion because of the whip.STS mannerism of self preservasion enabled him to have a 3yo career that is utterly unique and may never be equaled.The arguments about greatness against particularly DB are brilliant and we should rejoice that these hero's ever existed.Personally I think DB had pure brilliance but what made STS better was his completeness........
@Newworldman66 ....having everthing from temperment to confirmation to change of pace(which was more instant than DB's)going on most types of ground over any distance.J Francome said and I totally agree,'he is the best horse around from 7f to 1m 6f'.He would easily have won the Leger and it's a shame the Triple Crown doesn't carry the lustre it once did.All in all though,he being the most complete makes him the best in my eyes.The argument about his 'shortlived' turn of foot is absolutely....
.... ridiculous.His turn of foot was superior to DB's in that it was more instant.DB needed 10 strides to click into gear,whereas STS in his Arc took 5 lengths out of group 1 winners in less than a furlong.He was then able to relax.For people to say it wasn't sustained is not understanding of horses trait's such as STS.If it needed to be sustained it would have yet some say he was coming to the end of his tether.So therefore he never really got a mile,1m2f or 1m4f.Dire ignorance.
@guitarlegend32 DB's speed was greater and more sustained than STS's and if it took him a few seconds longer to get into his stride then so what ? Thatt's not what counts. Every time STS won a race he was unconvincing : he looked invincible for a few strides and then he faded. I never saw STS win in the manner that e.g. DB did in the 1986 Eclipse. STS's best performance was in his Arc, and even there he was once again being caught near to the line. He NEVER dazzled.
@zarakhast I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree and you are obviously in the vasy minority regards the horses mindset of self preservation and his toying with his rivals.Either way good luck with your betting,looking forward to workforce and the rest of his season.
@zarakhast, If Dancing Brave was a faster horse than STS, to quote you, then so what? What does it really matter whether Dancing Brave had the ability to draw away in a race, and STS only won his races by a couple of lengths? Really, what does it matter? The bottom line is getting your horse across the wire FIRST!!! Mick Kinane did so quite effectively with STS. A win is still a win on a horse's record, whether he win's by 2 lengths or 22 lengths. STS was great enough to win 6 straight Group1's
@GBeret83 Sea The Stars would have lost in the end, if his connections had decided to keep him racing. Just because he left the track with an unbeaten record doesn't make him one of the best horses ever. He was well campaigned. His "turn of foot" was short-lived. When Dancing Brave won the King George he went for home a long way out and it was exhilarating to watch. STS always quickened for, say, five or six seconds and then ran out of steam. ALWAYS. Every single race. He was a BORE to watch.
@zarakhast Just three questions.How do you know STS would have lost had he kept racing?Why is it that you don't think horses have a tendency to just do enough which you clearly don't?Do you honestly think this trait doesn't exist and that STS was one of these horses?If so why.DB went for home 2 furlongs out in his KG and 'ran out of steam'.You must think this because you clearly think that horses don't idle in front.
@zarakhast The thing is you seem to want it both ways and are contradicting yourself.DB went to the front in his KG the same time STS went for home in his Arc.If DB's "turn of foot" wasn't short lived why did he 'run out of steam'?Or was it that he simply thought he had done enough for the day?.Eddery thought so because said he got there too soon and wouldn't make the same mistake in the Arc.So why is it alright for DB but not STS?Fact is STS was never tested and had a trait that you don't....
@guitarlegend32 You say that DB went for home at "the same time" in his KG as STS went for home in his Arc. I'll have to check that to be sure but my impression is that DB's run began a fair bit earlier in the straight. Notwithstanding that, DB's burst of speed lasted longer than STS's (in his Arc). He left the rest (Shardari, Triptych, Shahrastani et al) trailing in his wake before Shardari began to catch him again. STS never drew clear in his Arc. His "turn of foot" was momentary by comparison
@zarakhast I agree that 2009 was not as good as 1986 when talking in strength in depth.Again I can only reiterate my opinion and that of nearly all good commentaters including and most importantly M.Kinane's that STS always had loads left and had his turn of foot needed lasting longer it would have.Lest we forget he pulled very hard in his Arc so his comfortable win is all the more comendable.As you wrote STS change of pace was explosive and got to the front in all his wins very easily...
@guitarlegend32 ... lifetime that I see a horse who is as complete.He had absolutely everything,looks,talent,breeding,temperment and I would be staggered if he wasn't a success at stud.His first book of mares contain 92 group 1,group 2 winners or broodmares of such stock and the produce of his mating with Zarkava would I am sure if sold,come close to a record sum.It was just a true pleasure to be able to see a horse mentioned in the same breath as DB when I never thought I'd see one as good.
@guitarlegend32 For what it's worth I enjoyed reading those thoughtful posts. I think ultimately it's impossible to compare horses from different generations. I'm also glad you mentioned Zarkava because in my view she was underrated, as was Nashwan. But I still think that the point about the way STS and DB finished their races is a pertinent one. DB's turn of foot in my opinion was just as "explosive" as STS's but he kept it up. Nor did he ever have to battle (as STS does here) to win a race ..
@zarakhast We look at everything biasly no doubt.DB needed his turn of foot to be more 'sustained' because in his Arc victory he came from further back than what STS did.He would have won the race no matter what the circumstance and it was visually incredible to watch.All the same on the point of 'battling' I think DB was put through the mill by Eddery in his Arc win and to an extent in his KG victory.Did STS have to dig deep in winning his Arc?He won in the same manner as in all his wins...
@guitarlegend32 I take your points seriously, BUT : IF 1986 was the better year (and I admit that that's not a gimme but just a matter of opinion), then, had STS been involved in the same race (i.e. the 1986 Arc) he would have had to somehow beat DB. How would he have done it (with the help of a jockey, of course) : by a front-running effort or by coming from behind ? I raise that question not thinking that I know the answer, though I admit that I think DB would have won.
@guitarlegend32 Dancing Brave didn't have to battle to win his KG - the finishing line came too soon. We'll never know. If there had been another 20-30 yards to go we would have found out. But he was the best horse in the race, no question (Eddery admitted that he brought him too soon). My point is that, whenever DB won, it was clear cut and beyond question. When he lost in the Derby it was jockey error - though some will still claim that DB didn't handle the track.
@zarakhast Sorry, to clarify : if, when Shardari was coming back at DB in the '86 KG there had still been 20-30 yards to run, we would have found out whether DB could have quickened again (i.e. "battled"). But we never saw DB have to do that. STS does it here. In his KG, DB has already won the race before Shardari starts to catch him again (well done Eddery !) Except for that race DB always wins going away, or loses. I hope you can see my point. It's just an observation.
@zarakhast ...and is in a sense what my whole argument is based on.How did he beat Mastercraftsmen by 1 length at York and look as if he had a hard race,yet beat him 5 lengths at Leopardstown seemingly easily?Because he had to.I doubt he would have won a seller around Catterick by more than 2 lengths.You could almost call it laziness or self preservation,depending on your view,but his record is unrivalled due to either robustness or ease of victory.He had both.Regards
you clearly are stupid and know very little about horse racing? STS a bore to watch? when he won the ARC that was the best performance ive seen from a top class horse in such an uncomprimisng position, he pulled for 4f, he had to angle out he was touching the rail around the bend, and he quickened to catch stacelita and others who were 4/5 lengths in front, and easily held them over his maximum distance? what more can you ask for? winnings winning.
@zarakhast ....actually think exists yet DB actually had it himself.DB was'being caught at the line'but that seems to be o.k. Heard of the line 'needs his head putting in front on the line'?Why?Because some horses stop when in front beleiving they've done enough.So many horses have this idiosyncrasy and I've ridden some myself having been an apprentice with R.Hannon.Mr.Brooks was such a horse who won the July Cup.Why else would M.Kinane say STS would never win by more than a couple of lengths?
@guitarlegend32 I'm not entirely convinced that DB was "idling" in the KG - though I've been of that opinion before. I think he may simply have been asked to go a few (10, 20 ?) yards too soon and that otherwise he might have won "going away". In his Arc, Eddery timed the run just right (against an even better field). STS had an AWESOME burst of speed ; but in my view it was no better than DB's and was shorter-lived. I know that horses sometimes "idle" when in front but I also think that ...
... to claim every time a horse nearly gets caught near the line that this is due to its tendency to idle when in front can be used as a convenient excuse. In my view, STS was clearly the best horse of a very good vintage. But I don't reckon that 2009 was as good a year as 1986 and I also don't think that STS beat his opponents as convincingly as DB beat his. DB's turn of foot in his Arc was far more impressive than STS's was in his.
@zarakhast ....which was explosion,then relax.To win over a variey of distances as they both did is virtually unique and I seriously doubt that either of us will see an animal of such presence again.Your right,we will never know what STS had in reserve,but the way he conducted himself was almost an insult to his opponentsWas he seriously asked to give it his all?His Irish Champion victory was IMO amazing considering the margin of victory over Mastercraftsman versus York.It seemed effortless...
@guitarlegend32 I agree that to win Group 1s over 8-12f is the mark of a versatile and brilliant horse, so both STS and DB qualify automatically (Nijinsky also won over 14f !). STS's burst of speed (brief but decisive) is really something to behold. And to be fair to STS here (against) RVW : when he's challenged he quickens again. But then he seems to relax again ! Frustrating for his fans. I think he was a great horse but I wouldn't admit it to certain people.
@zarakhast STS doesn't 'quicken again' - it's an optical illusion. RVW is closing on STS but when he gets to half a length off him Kinane waives his whip in RVW's face. RVW flinches then jinks to his left but despite this only loses by around a length. STS was just keeping on at the same pace.
@Newworldman66 You might be right, although I hadn't heard that. I think STS battles well here and it's an exciting race to watch. But I doubt - and suspect you do too - that Dancing Brave would have had to fight so hard to shake off RVW. When the Brave set off for home it was bye bye to the rest !
@zarakhast It is right, the incident happens at 3.47. Watch for RVW at that point moving his head sharply to his left. This has actually been covered by many people on many racing forums and there's quite a large article about it on a racing website although oddly enough there is no mention of it on the allegedly superior The Racing Forum on their 2009 Eclipse thread.
@Newworldman66 Hey, you should stick around, you just might learn something worthwhile - or send your alter ego, Zarakhast. He's every bit as blinkered as you - and like you, he also talks utter shite.
@Newworldman66 It's a great race to watch. I don't know about the whip incident. But the bottom line is that it was uncomfortably close for STS. Dancing Brave, once he got into his stride, was never challenged - except by Shardari in the KG, and that was because he was brought too early (as Eddery admitted). Sea The Stars had an explosive initial burst but almost as soon as he quickened he faded again. When DB went for home his turn-of-foot was sustained.
@guitarlegend32 ...perhaps too easily so visually I can understand your opinion that he looked like he was coming to the end of his teather.I think however that his Eclipse win against the real RVW demonstrates what was left when required without,if truth be known,M.Kinane ever really getting too serious.I doubt he hit him 20 times in his career.We will never know who was better but I am certain he was the best since the Brave and maybe the best for a long time to come.I hope though in my ....
@forsoup How am i being silly? It's clear what happened, many others have also made similar comments. I never actually made any comments about it affecting the outcome. Seems you're yet another STS fanboi who 'responds' with statements. As regards RVW he's a good rather than an outstanding horse. He ran his race in the Juddmonte but was all out to get past Twice Over, who's only a 123 horse. If run over 10f he'd have lost. It's yet another result that weakens the collateral form lines on STS.
@Newworldman66 I think he was probably checked to straighten him up. I agree, STS didn't accelerate. Not sure if it would have affected the outcome though?
@Newworldman66 ......spot on .........the biggest reason why in my opinion the whip should be banned......i see it time and time again when horses look like they are gonna pass another but dont because there is a whip being waved in front of its face.....this is a classic example and proof of it was the way that RVW came back again once the whip was not flashed in front of it.
RVW's greatest race imo, STS is pretty much the only horse that could've held rip there imo, mighty effort!!!!he'll be the best miler this year imo, super horse, delighted he stayed in training!
RVW's greatest race imo, STS is pretty much the only horse that could've held rip there imo, mighty effort!!!!he'll be the best miler this year imo, super horse, delighted he stayed in training!
I do wonder why STS is considered an all time great when he could just about beat this field, all time greats usually beat their opposition by a good few lengths or win on the bridle.
@147ard did you see the time of this!!!!!!!!!!!! was wayyyy faster than standard. Rip Van Winkle won two G1's after this , Conduit won two G1's Twice Over won the Champion, also he beat Dar Re Mi multiple G1 winner, Fame And Glory 2 x G1 winner fuck I could go on what he has beat.
@147ard rip van winkle is a class horse, how can you even imply sea the stars is not an all time great, he always idled in fron and just done enough to win, guineas,derby,eclipse,international,irish champion stakes,the arc and you question wether he was a great, get a grip pal
Watching the replay of the Coral Eclipse again, and also having seen both replays of his win's in the Q.E. II and the Sussex Stakes, I am still more impressed, even in a 2nd place effort in Rip Van Winkle's run in this race for the simple fact that he gave his all, and nearly ran down the best thoroughbred in the whole world. JMO.
Anyone notice that the major reason why sea the stars won this duel is because kinane hit rip van winkle in the face with his whip @ 3:45 - 3:46 you can clearly see Rip motion from being hit in the face
those runs from rip and conduit would have been enough to beat most, but the couldnt beat STS, not only was his ability and temprement second to none but he was tough, anything that came to challenge this horse was turned away!is say put any other horse this year anyway would have been beaten by RVW there but STS, just too good!!greatest ever imo!
As many of these big Group 1 races that Adien O'Brien used Set Sail to be a rabbit to put on a blistering pace, I'm assuming thinking it may tire STS, I don't know why he doesn't make a sprinter out of this horse. The way he flies out of the gate and goes straight to the lead, usually by 5 or 6 lengths, he'd be hard to beat in a 6 furlong race. JMO.
This was a really tough field of competition that Sea The Stars took down on this day. A lot of really good colt's in this race. Usually, just beating Conduit is quite a challenge, but STS made it look like just another day at the office. Even in defeat, this was probably the strongest run that I've seen Rip Van Winkle make. Even knowing that he won the Sussex and the Q.E. II.
nice comment GBeret83.. just thout id point out that galileo is sts half brother, excellent comparsion.. but the breeding is perfection as well,, THE HORSE OF A LIFETIME!!!!
I've followed thoroughbred racing all the way back to the day's of Secretariat in 73'. I follow the American as well as the European horses. I don't know if I've ever seen a stronger horse on turf than STS. That's saying a bunch because Europe has had some great grass horses. Galileo, Giant's Causeway, Shergar just to name a few.
@GBeret83 I don't understand why you're getting so excited about STS : he didn't exactly "eclipse" Rip Van Winkle here and neither did he ever win any of his races with any great authority. He had a decisive but very short-lived turn-of-foot which made him pretty boring to watch. His best win was his Arc but even that was unimpressive. He quickens for a few seconds but then fades away. What's all the fuss about ? A GREAT horse would never have had to struggle to win, as STS does here.
@zarakhast 'boring to watch' LMFAO outrageous comment but youre entitled to your opinion!!! tell u one thing tho, he has the finest record of the modern era, no horse has ever done what he did, g1 every month and winning those races consecutively!! his times were also faster than dancing braves in all their consecutive races, and youd think dancing brave would have bettered at least ONE of the times set by STS, seeing as how 'fast' DB was!!strange that!
STS is the greatest, he would never have been beaten in 2009, anybody who knows anything about racing would agree, and to add to it mick kinnane onboard.
@barbaro370 I think he is the best looking racehorse since Golden Fleece in '82 and before that Nijinsky in '70.V.O'brien always said Golden Fleece was a magnificent looking horse with an enormous stride,depth of girth and constitution.Nijinsky speaks for himself but I can't comment on the Great Ribot.
I dont think we ever seen sea the stars run to the max of his ability he never really got tested but its due to his brilliance there is just nothing good enough to do it! my opinion on st nicholls abbey is he will be a serious prospect but i have a feeling steinbeck will be the number 1 3 year old for next season he was unlucky to get beat on his last run and wouldnt have been up to full fitness
He definitely had a "turn of foot" that you don't see very many 3yr.old colt's have. He just really accelerated at will. He ran like an older colt IMO.
Sea The Stars always had too many gears for any of the horses he faced. He always pulled out more and his stride was so long and quick. This horse was unbeatable in 2009.
Good comment Kadir but I do think that STS in a sense was 'toying with him'.Rip was immensely disappointing in the U.S, although I would like to add one thing.He looked good after this run at Goodwood but only o.k at Ascot.The form of this race is outstanding but I don't think he really improved afterwards.This in a sense was down to AOB trying desperately to confirm his 'class' that he didn't stop going on about all season.I wouldn't be surprised if Rip stayed in training.
he DIDNT accelerate really...if u look very close at 3 43 or 3 44 when rip van got really close to him, see the stars jockey whips him and almost whips rip van winkle in the face, which made him check and pull out a lil and lose the charge...
The kind of race he ran in this race was the kind of race I really felt Rip Van Winkle would run in the Breeders Cup Classic. Really disappointed with his finish. But Zenyatta was much the best that day.
uve yet to see a Great sprinter, doubt we'll come across a Dayjur anytime soon, Sakhees Secret looked the part for a season but we need something to dominate the sprint scene for at least a few years
sts and db 2 fantastic horses,and db arc win was against a very classy field. a lot of folk seem to forget about lamtarra which in my opinion was very underrated
Sea The Stars would quicken twice in his races, this shows he was playing with his competition, look at the International looks likee he is beat yet is pulling double and wins easily. Dancing Brave i recall was beat twice in his 3 year old career, and anyone who thinks Mtoto would have beaten Sea The Stars are retarded.
I don't think horses have had the same fame in the past 10 - 15 years as before - Nijinsky, Shergar, Desert Orchid, Red Rum, Nashwan, Dancing Brave, etc. are all legends.
But there are still horses that have stood out in recent times - Best Mate and Kauto star for example. Sea the Stars should definitely be added to that list.
New Approach is a personal fav of mine and im probly biased but i dont think he got the credit he desrved, i wont get into it cause ill be here all night, Manduro, Zarkava, Goldikova, Sea The Stars are all horses ill remember as great from my few years being into racing, ive seen plenty other class horses like Dylan Thomas, Henry The Nav, Authorized,to name a few, but they 5 were a bit special. Its probly cause its all about money now where as it was more of a sport in the great days gone by
People reading this will think that Dan Patch was some American wonder racehorse.
He raced, yes - but he was a harness horse ( trotting horse) who was not a thoroughbred.
Arkle was a househole name in Britain and Ireland during the 60s, often on the front pages of newspapers and on tv. He is certainly more know this side of the pond than some old trotting racer called Dan Patch.
Then there's Nijinsky and Red Rum - equally lauded by the UK public.
I wouldnt worry too much as i have over the last few days, ive realised some ppl just dont care for what is there in front of them but choose to see what they desire. Most objective ppl will read that guy and the just as they say PUT A LINE THROUGH IT
I said at the time, and till the end of the season when ure evaluating form, this was the best mile and quarter race run in europe this year. Today i can say this was the best mile and a quarter race run in the world this year.
Dessie. The problem is that horse racing just doesn't have the same impact as it had, say, at the time of Dan Patch. We still remember the great horses of the past. Today, it is all about people like David Beckham, Serena Williams and Tiger Woods. In the last century, horses had this sort of fame. Hollywood movies were made about horses like Phar Lap, Seabiscuit and of course, Dan Patch.
As we are still in the first decade of this particularly century, we ( the real horse racing ) fans will make allowances for stupid and absurd comments which only serve to highlight a person's ignorance, as well as their over enthusiasm.
Sea The Stars is the best throughbred to have raced this century. The proximity of Twice Over to Zenyatta in the Classic suggests to me that the US "wonder mare" is inferior to Sea The Stars. Put simply, she would not sprinted by him like she did the others.
MrPapaBill. I agree that the century has only started, and another champion may come along. I personally think the best horse in the last century was Dan Patch. He also ran in the first part of the last century. Eclipse is the most recent great one you have had to my mind in Britain. Note that this race is named after him. If STS is so great, then the race will be renamed the Coral Sea the Stars maybe.
Eclipse, an 18th century horse - the most recent great we have had ? I do know all about Eclipse, and the fact that this race was named after him.
He was most certainly the greatest of his time, but the fact remains that the opposition he faced was well, slow and pathetic by comparison. He was awarded many races on the walk over rule - being that many trainers thought it pointless to take him on. Impossible to gauge his true worth vis-a- vis the modern day thoroughbred.
If we had imaginary races! If you read my comment properly, you would know I was talking about the horses that RACED him, past tense - Rip Van Winkle, Delegator, Conduit, etc. They were the ones that tried, but couldn't beat Sea The Stars.
I don't care if Zenyatta could have beaten him or not, because they never raced together.
High. Now that's what I call a smart horse. Zenyatta is like the great Dan Patch. He was the subject of many books and Hollywood films, unbeaten, household name, most well known athlete at the start of the century. It all sounds familiar. You will be lucky to see another like the great Zenyatta.
lol did u not see the betting m8? 14s twice over haha i didnt even see him sniffing arses here, was he even in the race? lmao i think he finished at some point, but he defo ran up to the same form when 3rd in the greatest race of history against Gods very own horse and managed to go down by the narrowest of two lengths. I really do believe there should be a statue of twice over at every major course in the uk as he got so close to the divine.
Although Sea The Stars' posted the fastest Eclipse winning time ( as I said ), the course record was set by Guy Harwood's Kalaglow, when he won the 1982 Brigadier Gerard Stakes. Kalaglow went onto win the Eclipse a few weeks later, but finished in a time that is 5 secs slower than Sea The Stars'.
I reiterate; this was one helluva performance from Sea The Stars.
wow...he just earned my humble respect...being in the US i didnt think much of this horse and what the fuss was about him...this is the 7th race of him that i watched of him (on youtube) and i cannot beleive that he has that extra gear in him...geez, did u see the last furlong, how he responded???special...very special
i dont know what horse you are watching but every time he is asked a question he just quickens up and does the job thats all he has to do and thats pure class i dont think you understand that he idles up front so they cant race him like that thats why it does not look as impressive as it is
Dancing Brave was never involved in an epic tussle like this one (Sea The Stars vs. Rip Van Winkle). It's great to watch but it proves to me that STS was no better than, e.g. Nashwan. He never won any of his races effortlessly so despite his unbeaten record his class must be suspect. But just use your own eyes : his turn foot (in this race and in all the others) doesn't last ...
watch the arc his turn of foot is amazing he doesnt win his races bu much because that it the way he races he goes to sleep if he is left uf front for 2 long plus he has won over a mile to a mile and a quarter so he has to have a turn of foot that lasts or he would not have won all his races
another thing you should look at conduit won the breeders cup the other night sea the stars beat him twice this year and he is an older horse than sts
Being very young, naive, and foolish at the time, LOL, I thought if anyone was finally going to get Sea The Stars in one of these major G1 stakes races that this would be the day. With Ballydoyle and Sir Michael Stoute both throwing pacemakers into this race, i.e., Malibu Bay and Lang Shining, I though they'd go such a good clip on the front end that it would set the finish up perfectly for Conduit to thunder home. But like I said before, I was naive and foolish then, and quickly learned better.
ILuvTurfRacing01 5 days ago
McGrath is simply a fantastic race caller. Almost makes me consider moving to the UK. :)
Target922 1 month ago
@Target922, Totally agree with you about Jim McGrath's race calls, 110%!! Love to hear him call the big races. His commentary in the Arc De Triomphe every years is simply the best!!
ILuvTurfRacing01 5 days ago
The commentators reaction when RVW came at Sea the stars, he accelerates!!!
Say it all.
Markhitman07 4 months ago in playlist SEE THE STARS
The Flat equivelent of Big Bucks. What ever they throw at him he found more and more. Great horse.
Jamie2462A 4 months ago
@forsoup you forgot the irish champion stakes ;)
MrHorses4eva 6 months ago
Lol, Sea The Stars: Guineas, Derby, Eclipse, Juddmonte, Arc.
Won them all by at least a length.
Pure class.
Pocket talkers keep on hating.
forsoup 6 months ago
People bash the likes of Workforce and then praise Sea the Stars but Workforce beat the likes of Fame and Glory and Youmzain(Sea the Stars beat FAG in the Irish Champion and Derby and Youzmain in the Arc) in the Arc even easier then what Sea the Stars did during his career LOL
Most overrated horse ever is Sea the Stars
debbider 7 months ago 2
@debbider Are you for real? How can a horse who won a GR1 every month for 6 months be classed as overrated? How many other thoroughbred racehorse have completed the Guineas/Derby/Arc treble? The answer is none. Do you not understand how hard it is to complete that treble? Overrated don't make Me laugh. I was lucky to see Dancing Brave growing up watching racing and I didnt think I'd see a better horse. Sea The Star is a once in a lifetime horse. You won't see that treble of races completed for..
ASupremeOwl 5 months ago
@ASupremeOwl How about Lammtarra's Derby/King George/Arc treble? That should be considered as the real treble. And he's undefeated. He just ran one race and then went to the Derby without much preparation and proof, but won it in track record(was broken by Workforce last year). I'm not one of those who think STS is overrated, but "a horse of a lifetime" is a little bit exaggerated, probably a horse of his generation/decade would be more suitable. Besides DB, don't forget Peintre Celebre.
szetotakwa 4 months ago
@szetotakwa I actually dont think the Derby/King George/Arc treble should be considered the real treble, because a guineas is a classic and over 1m, it shows how versatile a horse is if it has the speed to beat horses like delegator over a mile then step up and beat the worlds best 1m4f horses, and judging by what won 2009 king george (conduit) i think STS would have won the king george if he went to it.
joemynes 4 months ago
@debbider A long time from now. Clearly just another idiotic internet poster with no racing knowledge whatsoever. Who did Workforce beat in his Derby really? Rewilding would be the only horse of any decent calibre. The only horse still from that race to win a Gr1 after Epsom its possibly one of the weakest fields ever assembled in a Derby that I can remember. Sea The Stars saw off Fame And Glory, Rip Van Winkle. Mastercraftsman, Debussy all Gr1 winning colts after Epsom. Clueless you are
ASupremeOwl 5 months ago
I know that Aidan O'Brien has been trying to use Ryan Moore as much as his schedule with SMS will allow in big G1 races that Ballydoyle has entries in, and Jamie Spencer has been primarily riding F&G and Cape Blanco now that part of both of them have been sold to the lady that Spencer rides for. But before I'd want to see Ballydoyle take on Jamie Spencer to replace Johnny Murtagh? I'd rather see them take a chance with Jimmy Fortune. He did right by Rip in this race, IMO.
GBeret83 7 months ago
this race is a prime example of a horse going too early for home and was a sitting duck but was still good enough to repell good horses. few horses wouldve won this race imo. had sts been held up in this race he wouldve won this race under a hand ride,the horse was a machine whose achievements might never be repeated. best since the great dancing brave.
ilikewavingatbuses 7 months ago
whether he stole it from van winkle or not, he is truly great. The way he won the arc was just an example of what he can do,
an08p 7 months ago
Brilliant horse, best since Dancing Brave. If RVW didnt get the clip down the nose off Kinane this might of went to a photo IMO, RVW was just getting to STS. On this performance I dont think STS would of beat Dancing Brave though or one or two other Eclipse winners.
mallafets 8 months ago
to many of you on here, if you cannot appreciate this horse, you simply dont know very much about horse racing, and thats a simple fact, hes a 3yr old that won 2 classics, beat every horse put in front of him, won a gp1 each each month and remained unbeaten as a 3 yr old and yet u still crab him?is this a wind up? and one argument is particularly hilarious , insinuating that oxx was afraid to run him in the KG (that conduit won and got stuffed TWICE BY STS), i hope these people dont bet ffs! gl
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
for me and always sea the stars is an all time great for what he done in those special 6 months... it would not have mattered about speed or who else was in the race.... he was a very clever and talented horse... from what i see of this race mick kinane did not intend to do anything but ride sea the stars...........
WHISKARDI 1 year ago
he DIDNT accelerate really...if u look very close at 3 43 or 3 44 when rip van got really close to him, see the stars jockey whips him and almost whips rip van winkle in the face, which made him check and pull out a lil and lose the charge...
kadir1982 1 year ago
Kinane went to early on him but sea the stars is so good he quickened twice!
dearsins 1 year ago
Sea The Stars won every G1 put in front of him from 8 to 10 to 12f how many G1's did Montjeu and Galileo win under 12f? Zero. Lets have a look at Sea The Stars 1 G1 at a mile, three at 1m2f and two at 1m4f. Anyone who doubts Sea The Stars are idiots and you will find Ballydoyle DID change there tactics to get him beat, man people talk SHIT
drofheim 1 year ago
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i dont believe sea the stars is the best horse we have seen in this generation. people are forgetting horses like montjeu, galileo. they were superstars. everytime sea the star won what did he actually beat. the other jockeys we not even trying different tactics to try and get this horse beaten.
botelho27 1 year ago
i dont believe sea the stars is the best horse we have seen in this generation. people are forgetting horses like montjeu, galileo. they were superstars. everytime sea the star won what did he actually beat. the other jockeys we not even trying different tactics to try and get this horse beaten.
botelho27 1 year ago
@botelho27 You're right that there are other superstars who would have given him a race, but jockeys didn't try different tactics? At York it was Mastercraftsman and 2 Ballydoyle pacemakers vs. STS in a 4 horse race, and they let Mastercraftsman kick early. In the Derby they sat off him with Fame&Glory, then in Ireland surrounded and let Fame get first run on him. Fame then pocketed him in the Arc. They set suicidal paces for the Juddmonte and Irish Champion, and crawled in the Derby...
AWrulez 1 year ago
@botelho27 \look we could crab any horse in hostory by asking what he beat? The Guineas, Derby, King George and Arc are arguably the indeed probably unarguably the 4 most prestigious races of the European season. He won them all. What do we want?
tigerarmyrule 1 year ago
@tigerarmyrule STS didn't run in the KG! Oxx didn't fancy STS taking on the older horses over 12f at that time of the season so he swerved it preferring the 'challenge' of the 10.4f Juddmonte against a miler and 2 AOB pacemakers.
Newworldman66 1 year ago 5
@Newworldman66 I accept correction on the King George Newworld but still the reality is he lined up in the Guineas, Derby and Arc. Top 3 year olds avoid the KG as a matter of routine now. He appeared in 6 top class Group one races.
tigerarmyrule 1 year ago
Thats why hes such a good jockey Murtagh would have done the exact same
hurleyd11 1 year ago
If Rip Van Winkle did get a smack on the chops, part of the blame must also go to Murtagh, as well as Kinane, for being so tight to Sea The Stars. Watch the Punchestown Champion Hurdle 2009, how Punjabi tightened in on Solwhit on the rail. Leaving Russell unable to use his whip. Sportsmanship?! History has shown that the superior horse won anyway.
thehorsesmouth1991 1 year ago
@thehorsesmouth1991
Not being fussy but Jimmy Fortune actually rode RVW this day, unsure where murtagh was must have been banned or riding in ireland? but that was the closest any of the ballydoyle actually got to beating STS and i do agree that RVW got a slap with kinanes whip but then watching STS next 3 races it looked like he would have beaten them regardless of what happened on this day
joemynes 10 months ago
There really are some muppets on here, I've seen on many STS video's people commenting about this horse or looking for a way to talk down his victories. This is horse racing do you really expect there to be no contact whatsoever? If there was some serious contact in this race from Kinane im sure there would have been a stewards enquiry, Give it a rest its embarrasing. Sea The Stars is the best 3 year old since Dancing Brave end of story!
ASupremeOwl 1 year ago
Sea the stars is a true great, never mind all the mumbo jumbo everyone has commented on here, you could talk about ratings and compare horses all day long but every horse has its likeable qualitys to every individual.To me, sea the stars is the best 3yr old colt of the last 20 years. Also, i was at sandown for the eclipse, with a superb view of the last 3 1/2 furlongs and sea the stars no way touched R V W , sea the stars picked up after jonny murtagh lost his rythym in the straight,
tattymuck86 1 year ago
@horseracingfan LOL...in their own back yards? You make it sound like the English horse raced on those tracks all the time.
Racing is an international sport now, which is why English and French horses regularly win the Irish classics and in fact 2 fillies trained in England have actually won the Irish Derby in the last 20 years.
On the subject of this race though, anyone notice RvW getting a smack across the head by Kinane's whip at about 3:47 that seemed to check his run?
amazed66 1 year ago 15
@amazed66 I mentioned the whip across RVW's at 3.47 in a post a few weeks ago where I dared to suggest that STS didn't quicken again as it was more a case of RVW's momentum being checked. I was promptly accused of being delusional and blinkered by self appointed racing guru and STS fanboi Thefightingcelt. I don't really see how pointing out something that clearly happened is being blinkered but his posts often contain unintentional irony.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 people sometimes have a perception or mind's eye view of events & see it one way & so if anyone offers up an alternative version then they tend to still feel their own one is the correct one.
I personally think if someone offered up something different to what I thought then I'd take a second look if only to satisfy my own curiosity but if they were to be specific with their details, then I would probably take even more notice. The 3:47 part is fairly specific. :)
amazed66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 In your mind it happened. It did not ! Kinane did come perilously close, I admit, but he did not touch RVW, a fact which was later borne out by Johnny Murtagh. Sea The Stars did quicken again, so get over yourself, plonker. If I'm a guru, then I'll take that - it only highlights the low class of ill-informed opponent I'm up against. : )
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
...else could have won the arc like he did pulling an absolutes train for alot of the race and then power away at the 300M mark, it was insane ive never seen anything like that before and ive seen dancing braves races!pulled like a train and won like he did, i couldnt believe it!amazing animal! and as i said inevitable, modern breeding, training, facilities,technology all plays a factor nowadays and it will continue to,and maybe in 20yrs we might see him surpassed but until then,hes the greatest
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
....(STS) came along!i know its hard but it has to be said, nostalgia and old memories can sometimes bias our opinions and imo, just my opinion, that this is evident esp among horse racing fans!but this horse was the real deal, his times were excellent, he was unbeatable from a mile to 12f and thats regardless of how the race was run , which shows how versatile and complete a race horse he really is!he won a series of races that has never been achieved before even by past greats!!tell me, who...
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
lads its inevitable that a horse was going to come along and better the efforts of previous titans of the game and it will continue to happen as time goes on!sure DB, NASHWAN, MILL REEF, and anyone else u wanna stick in there brilliant brilliant horses, DB the benchmark imo but there is now a new benchmark and thats STS!his 3yr old record is flawless, COULD NOT BE BEATEN and his arc run was the most impressive of all after a long and tiring season, its just not done!never had been until he.....
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
Sea the Stars ,best horse I have seen since Nijinsky.
oceallaigh2003 1 year ago
@oceallaigh2003 I agree. : )
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
He's such an overrated horse. He didn't possess anything except a momentary burst of speed. Every single one of his races is evidence of this. Just because a horse wins all of his races doesn't by itself make him a great horse. His best performance was his Arc, but even in that race he was being caught again near the line. He was the best horse in a good but unexceptional year.
zarakhast 1 year ago
I would have bet any amount of money, with maximum confidence, that Sea The Stars would have beaten Dancing Brave over any distance. Remember too that C4 racing and Racing UK were aware of the comparisons between STS and Dancing Brave - and Nashwan. They then set out to illustrate what STS would ( in theory ) have done to both had they met. After running VTs of 86 and 89 Eclipse side by side with this, the concensus was that Sea The Stars would have left Nashwan and Dancing Brave toiling.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt How much would that be then £2.50? A whole week's pocket money? So you're resorting to the CH4 racing team for back up - the very antonym of a brains trust! Who'd have thought that they would apply simpleton's logic with such intelligentsia!! Perhaps they should also have run the VT of Guy Harwood's Kalaglow spin around Sandown as part of their 'analysis' but then that would spoil their conclusion.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 Of course, you're absolutely right. Jim McGrath, Nick Luck, Steve Mellish and Graham Cunningham have all got it completely wrong. How could any horse, let alone Sea The Stars ( who afterall only won every group one race he entered and bettered every race time Dancing Brave ever set ) be superior ? In your tiny mind it doesn't happen. Therefore, I suggest you go and lie down and dream some more about that 1986 Arc. Afterall, it is how you get your rocks off, is it not ? LOL.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt A better description of a tiny mind would be someone who a makes a point, has it shot to pieces and can only respond by repeating the original point. Cherry picking times that suit your premise but ignoring those that don't makes your argument dishonest and therefore without merit. A theory has to be applied uniformly or not at all. You can repeat your premise ad nauseam if wish but it will never make it true.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 Exactly what you DO ! You can state ad nauseum how much better you think Dancing Brave was to any horse who has ever set foot on a racecourse - although you have with nothing concrete or factual to back it up - yet it does not make it true. I have stated one overriding fact - STS WAS, as records show, a faster horse over middle distances than Dancing Brave. No amount of spin, crying or throwing your dummy out the pram can alter that FACT.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt So how do you explain the handicappers' decision to award both horses a rating of 140 ? Do you think you're wiser than the handicappers ? Times mean nothing anyway. Didn't Workforce set a new record time for the Derby this year ? Is he already the best horse of all time ? Anyway, let's see those stats. Give us a link to the relevant info.
zarakhast 1 year ago
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zarakhast 1 year ago
Sea The Stars does quicken again when challenged. Remove the blinkers or remain delusional and see what you want to see.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
I don't think it takes away from STS's greatness at all that he never won any of his races by a huge margin. Quite the contrary. He could set anywhere in a race. Then when the gap's appeared, he had the gears needed to shoot right through an opening, and enough stamina and turn of foot to propel himself to victory. You don't reel off winning the 2000 Guneas, Epsom Derby, Coral Eclipse, Juddmonte International Stakes, Irish Champion Stakes, and the Arc without having some great ability. JMO.
GBeret83 1 year ago
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GBeret83 1 year ago
Fantastic RVW gave it everything but STS had him beaten no matter what.
He reminds me of a great athlete going through the rounds at the olympics,never wanting to lose but only ever doing enough to win.
Peter9761 1 year ago 2
How on earth can you say Sea The Stars' turn of foot was overrated?! Hahahahahaha!!!
You just saw Rip Van Winkle absolutely accelerate up on the outside of Sea The Stars so Kinane just took him up another gear and RVW simply had no answer.
7 Group 1's in a row is pretty spectacular considering he 'didn't have something extra'.
forsoup 1 year ago
@forsoup Kinane didn't take STS 'up another gear'. As RVW got to about half a length off STS, Kinane waived his whip in front of RVW causing him to flinch then veer to his left so checking his momentum. There was no extra burst of acceleration from STS.
Newworldman66 1 year ago 37
@Newworldman66 Do you think Rip would ever beat STS?The reason he jinked,like most horses,was because he was tired and defeated,not in my opinion because of the whip.STS mannerism of self preservasion enabled him to have a 3yo career that is utterly unique and may never be equaled.The arguments about greatness against particularly DB are brilliant and we should rejoice that these hero's ever existed.Personally I think DB had pure brilliance but what made STS better was his completeness........
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 ....having everthing from temperment to confirmation to change of pace(which was more instant than DB's)going on most types of ground over any distance.J Francome said and I totally agree,'he is the best horse around from 7f to 1m 6f'.He would easily have won the Leger and it's a shame the Triple Crown doesn't carry the lustre it once did.All in all though,he being the most complete makes him the best in my eyes.The argument about his 'shortlived' turn of foot is absolutely....
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
.... ridiculous.His turn of foot was superior to DB's in that it was more instant.DB needed 10 strides to click into gear,whereas STS in his Arc took 5 lengths out of group 1 winners in less than a furlong.He was then able to relax.For people to say it wasn't sustained is not understanding of horses trait's such as STS.If it needed to be sustained it would have yet some say he was coming to the end of his tether.So therefore he never really got a mile,1m2f or 1m4f.Dire ignorance.
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 DB's speed was greater and more sustained than STS's and if it took him a few seconds longer to get into his stride then so what ? Thatt's not what counts. Every time STS won a race he was unconvincing : he looked invincible for a few strides and then he faded. I never saw STS win in the manner that e.g. DB did in the 1986 Eclipse. STS's best performance was in his Arc, and even there he was once again being caught near to the line. He NEVER dazzled.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree and you are obviously in the vasy minority regards the horses mindset of self preservation and his toying with his rivals.Either way good luck with your betting,looking forward to workforce and the rest of his season.
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@zarakhast, If Dancing Brave was a faster horse than STS, to quote you, then so what? What does it really matter whether Dancing Brave had the ability to draw away in a race, and STS only won his races by a couple of lengths? Really, what does it matter? The bottom line is getting your horse across the wire FIRST!!! Mick Kinane did so quite effectively with STS. A win is still a win on a horse's record, whether he win's by 2 lengths or 22 lengths. STS was great enough to win 6 straight Group1's
GBeret83 1 year ago
@GBeret83 Sea The Stars would have lost in the end, if his connections had decided to keep him racing. Just because he left the track with an unbeaten record doesn't make him one of the best horses ever. He was well campaigned. His "turn of foot" was short-lived. When Dancing Brave won the King George he went for home a long way out and it was exhilarating to watch. STS always quickened for, say, five or six seconds and then ran out of steam. ALWAYS. Every single race. He was a BORE to watch.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Just three questions.How do you know STS would have lost had he kept racing?Why is it that you don't think horses have a tendency to just do enough which you clearly don't?Do you honestly think this trait doesn't exist and that STS was one of these horses?If so why.DB went for home 2 furlongs out in his KG and 'ran out of steam'.You must think this because you clearly think that horses don't idle in front.
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@zarakhast The thing is you seem to want it both ways and are contradicting yourself.DB went to the front in his KG the same time STS went for home in his Arc.If DB's "turn of foot" wasn't short lived why did he 'run out of steam'?Or was it that he simply thought he had done enough for the day?.Eddery thought so because said he got there too soon and wouldn't make the same mistake in the Arc.So why is it alright for DB but not STS?Fact is STS was never tested and had a trait that you don't....
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 You say that DB went for home at "the same time" in his KG as STS went for home in his Arc. I'll have to check that to be sure but my impression is that DB's run began a fair bit earlier in the straight. Notwithstanding that, DB's burst of speed lasted longer than STS's (in his Arc). He left the rest (Shardari, Triptych, Shahrastani et al) trailing in his wake before Shardari began to catch him again. STS never drew clear in his Arc. His "turn of foot" was momentary by comparison
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast I agree that 2009 was not as good as 1986 when talking in strength in depth.Again I can only reiterate my opinion and that of nearly all good commentaters including and most importantly M.Kinane's that STS always had loads left and had his turn of foot needed lasting longer it would have.Lest we forget he pulled very hard in his Arc so his comfortable win is all the more comendable.As you wrote STS change of pace was explosive and got to the front in all his wins very easily...
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 ... lifetime that I see a horse who is as complete.He had absolutely everything,looks,talent,breeding,temperment and I would be staggered if he wasn't a success at stud.His first book of mares contain 92 group 1,group 2 winners or broodmares of such stock and the produce of his mating with Zarkava would I am sure if sold,come close to a record sum.It was just a true pleasure to be able to see a horse mentioned in the same breath as DB when I never thought I'd see one as good.
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 For what it's worth I enjoyed reading those thoughtful posts. I think ultimately it's impossible to compare horses from different generations. I'm also glad you mentioned Zarkava because in my view she was underrated, as was Nashwan. But I still think that the point about the way STS and DB finished their races is a pertinent one. DB's turn of foot in my opinion was just as "explosive" as STS's but he kept it up. Nor did he ever have to battle (as STS does here) to win a race ..
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast We look at everything biasly no doubt.DB needed his turn of foot to be more 'sustained' because in his Arc victory he came from further back than what STS did.He would have won the race no matter what the circumstance and it was visually incredible to watch.All the same on the point of 'battling' I think DB was put through the mill by Eddery in his Arc win and to an extent in his KG victory.Did STS have to dig deep in winning his Arc?He won in the same manner as in all his wins...
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 I take your points seriously, BUT : IF 1986 was the better year (and I admit that that's not a gimme but just a matter of opinion), then, had STS been involved in the same race (i.e. the 1986 Arc) he would have had to somehow beat DB. How would he have done it (with the help of a jockey, of course) : by a front-running effort or by coming from behind ? I raise that question not thinking that I know the answer, though I admit that I think DB would have won.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 Dancing Brave didn't have to battle to win his KG - the finishing line came too soon. We'll never know. If there had been another 20-30 yards to go we would have found out. But he was the best horse in the race, no question (Eddery admitted that he brought him too soon). My point is that, whenever DB won, it was clear cut and beyond question. When he lost in the Derby it was jockey error - though some will still claim that DB didn't handle the track.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Sorry, to clarify : if, when Shardari was coming back at DB in the '86 KG there had still been 20-30 yards to run, we would have found out whether DB could have quickened again (i.e. "battled"). But we never saw DB have to do that. STS does it here. In his KG, DB has already won the race before Shardari starts to catch him again (well done Eddery !) Except for that race DB always wins going away, or loses. I hope you can see my point. It's just an observation.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast ...and is in a sense what my whole argument is based on.How did he beat Mastercraftsmen by 1 length at York and look as if he had a hard race,yet beat him 5 lengths at Leopardstown seemingly easily?Because he had to.I doubt he would have won a seller around Catterick by more than 2 lengths.You could almost call it laziness or self preservation,depending on your view,but his record is unrivalled due to either robustness or ease of victory.He had both.Regards
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@zarakhast
you clearly are stupid and know very little about horse racing? STS a bore to watch? when he won the ARC that was the best performance ive seen from a top class horse in such an uncomprimisng position, he pulled for 4f, he had to angle out he was touching the rail around the bend, and he quickened to catch stacelita and others who were 4/5 lengths in front, and easily held them over his maximum distance? what more can you ask for? winnings winning.
joemynes 10 months ago
@zarakhast ....actually think exists yet DB actually had it himself.DB was'being caught at the line'but that seems to be o.k. Heard of the line 'needs his head putting in front on the line'?Why?Because some horses stop when in front beleiving they've done enough.So many horses have this idiosyncrasy and I've ridden some myself having been an apprentice with R.Hannon.Mr.Brooks was such a horse who won the July Cup.Why else would M.Kinane say STS would never win by more than a couple of lengths?
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 I'm not entirely convinced that DB was "idling" in the KG - though I've been of that opinion before. I think he may simply have been asked to go a few (10, 20 ?) yards too soon and that otherwise he might have won "going away". In his Arc, Eddery timed the run just right (against an even better field). STS had an AWESOME burst of speed ; but in my view it was no better than DB's and was shorter-lived. I know that horses sometimes "idle" when in front but I also think that ...
zarakhast 1 year ago
... to claim every time a horse nearly gets caught near the line that this is due to its tendency to idle when in front can be used as a convenient excuse. In my view, STS was clearly the best horse of a very good vintage. But I don't reckon that 2009 was as good a year as 1986 and I also don't think that STS beat his opponents as convincingly as DB beat his. DB's turn of foot in his Arc was far more impressive than STS's was in his.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast ....which was explosion,then relax.To win over a variey of distances as they both did is virtually unique and I seriously doubt that either of us will see an animal of such presence again.Your right,we will never know what STS had in reserve,but the way he conducted himself was almost an insult to his opponentsWas he seriously asked to give it his all?His Irish Champion victory was IMO amazing considering the margin of victory over Mastercraftsman versus York.It seemed effortless...
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 I agree that to win Group 1s over 8-12f is the mark of a versatile and brilliant horse, so both STS and DB qualify automatically (Nijinsky also won over 14f !). STS's burst of speed (brief but decisive) is really something to behold. And to be fair to STS here (against) RVW : when he's challenged he quickens again. But then he seems to relax again ! Frustrating for his fans. I think he was a great horse but I wouldn't admit it to certain people.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast STS doesn't 'quicken again' - it's an optical illusion. RVW is closing on STS but when he gets to half a length off him Kinane waives his whip in RVW's face. RVW flinches then jinks to his left but despite this only loses by around a length. STS was just keeping on at the same pace.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
Comment removed
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 You might be right, although I hadn't heard that. I think STS battles well here and it's an exciting race to watch. But I doubt - and suspect you do too - that Dancing Brave would have had to fight so hard to shake off RVW. When the Brave set off for home it was bye bye to the rest !
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast It is right, the incident happens at 3.47. Watch for RVW at that point moving his head sharply to his left. This has actually been covered by many people on many racing forums and there's quite a large article about it on a racing website although oddly enough there is no mention of it on the allegedly superior The Racing Forum on their 2009 Eclipse thread.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 Hey, you should stick around, you just might learn something worthwhile - or send your alter ego, Zarakhast. He's every bit as blinkered as you - and like you, he also talks utter shite.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 It's a great race to watch. I don't know about the whip incident. But the bottom line is that it was uncomfortably close for STS. Dancing Brave, once he got into his stride, was never challenged - except by Shardari in the KG, and that was because he was brought too early (as Eddery admitted). Sea The Stars had an explosive initial burst but almost as soon as he quickened he faded again. When DB went for home his turn-of-foot was sustained.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast u might wanna have a look at his king george again!!2nd closing fast at the line!!
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
@guitarlegend32 ...perhaps too easily so visually I can understand your opinion that he looked like he was coming to the end of his teather.I think however that his Eclipse win against the real RVW demonstrates what was left when required without,if truth be known,M.Kinane ever really getting too serious.I doubt he hit him 20 times in his career.We will never know who was better but I am certain he was the best since the Brave and maybe the best for a long time to come.I hope though in my ....
guitarlegend32 1 year ago
@Newworldman66
Don't be silly.
Sea The Stars holds Rip Van Winkle all day long. Evidence?
The Guineas- won by Sea The Stars
The Derby- won by Sea The Stars
The Eclipse ;)- won by Sea the Stars
Give the horse some credit- he could cruise, he could accelerate, he could dig deep. Outstanding.
Rip is an outstanding horse- as seen this week at York, but Sea The Stars was simply brilliant. Kinane almost went too early on him in this race.
forsoup 1 year ago
@forsoup How am i being silly? It's clear what happened, many others have also made similar comments. I never actually made any comments about it affecting the outcome. Seems you're yet another STS fanboi who 'responds' with statements. As regards RVW he's a good rather than an outstanding horse. He ran his race in the Juddmonte but was all out to get past Twice Over, who's only a 123 horse. If run over 10f he'd have lost. It's yet another result that weakens the collateral form lines on STS.
Newworldman66 1 year ago 2
@Newworldman66 or you can look at it like, in another 5 strides Rip would have beeat Twice Over 3 lengths that day...
cmcgarth1O 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 I think he was probably checked to straighten him up. I agree, STS didn't accelerate. Not sure if it would have affected the outcome though?
bgardiner2000 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 ......spot on .........the biggest reason why in my opinion the whip should be banned......i see it time and time again when horses look like they are gonna pass another but dont because there is a whip being waved in front of its face.....this is a classic example and proof of it was the way that RVW came back again once the whip was not flashed in front of it.
UPYOURSBG 4 months ago 3
"Perfection in equine form, the horse of a lifetime" -Jim McGrath
forsoup 1 year ago
How could he not a a big turn of foot if he won the guineas you clowns ?
cfc67 1 year ago
miseable sod ! - open ya eyes ..... the best since the 70's
mattyb5678 1 year ago
Comment removed
GBeret83 1 year ago
RVW's greatest race imo, STS is pretty much the only horse that could've held rip there imo, mighty effort!!!!he'll be the best miler this year imo, super horse, delighted he stayed in training!
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
RVW's greatest race imo, STS is pretty much the only horse that could've held rip there imo, mighty effort!!!!he'll be the best miler this year imo, super horse, delighted he stayed in training!
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
Also Zenyatta will be covered by Sea The Stars when she finishes her season.
drofheim 1 year ago
I do wonder why STS is considered an all time great when he could just about beat this field, all time greats usually beat their opposition by a good few lengths or win on the bridle.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard
Sea the Stars doesn't go flat to the boards to the line, as you can see in this race, he idles when he gets to the front and does just enough to win.
Oxx and Kinane have talked about this numerous times, and perhaps is why people think hes so great; we never got to the bottom of him
AWrulez 1 year ago
@147ard did you see the time of this!!!!!!!!!!!! was wayyyy faster than standard. Rip Van Winkle won two G1's after this , Conduit won two G1's Twice Over won the Champion, also he beat Dar Re Mi multiple G1 winner, Fame And Glory 2 x G1 winner fuck I could go on what he has beat.
drofheim 1 year ago
@147ard rip van winkle is a class horse, how can you even imply sea the stars is not an all time great, he always idled in fron and just done enough to win, guineas,derby,eclipse,international,irish champion stakes,the arc and you question wether he was a great, get a grip pal
MANUTD4LIFE171 1 year ago
I think that STS should face Zenyatta (greatest horse of the decade) see who is really better
ZenyattaFanatic911 1 year ago
lol see who is better hahahahahahaha gd yin, al crack the jokes
cmcgarth1O 1 year ago
Watching the replay of the Coral Eclipse again, and also having seen both replays of his win's in the Q.E. II and the Sussex Stakes, I am still more impressed, even in a 2nd place effort in Rip Van Winkle's run in this race for the simple fact that he gave his all, and nearly ran down the best thoroughbred in the whole world. JMO.
GBeret83 1 year ago
Anyone notice that the major reason why sea the stars won this duel is because kinane hit rip van winkle in the face with his whip @ 3:45 - 3:46 you can clearly see Rip motion from being hit in the face
1800s 1 year ago
this was the best 1m2f race run in the world last year, real true race
cmcgarth1O 1 year ago
those runs from rip and conduit would have been enough to beat most, but the couldnt beat STS, not only was his ability and temprement second to none but he was tough, anything that came to challenge this horse was turned away!is say put any other horse this year anyway would have been beaten by RVW there but STS, just too good!!greatest ever imo!
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
As many of these big Group 1 races that Adien O'Brien used Set Sail to be a rabbit to put on a blistering pace, I'm assuming thinking it may tire STS, I don't know why he doesn't make a sprinter out of this horse. The way he flies out of the gate and goes straight to the lead, usually by 5 or 6 lengths, he'd be hard to beat in a 6 furlong race. JMO.
GBeret83 1 year ago
i just relized how many big horses are here, Rip Van Winkle, Conduit, Twice over, and oviously Sea the Stars.
Sami13p 2 years ago
This was a really tough field of competition that Sea The Stars took down on this day. A lot of really good colt's in this race. Usually, just beating Conduit is quite a challenge, but STS made it look like just another day at the office. Even in defeat, this was probably the strongest run that I've seen Rip Van Winkle make. Even knowing that he won the Sussex and the Q.E. II.
GBeret83 2 years ago
nice comment GBeret83.. just thout id point out that galileo is sts half brother, excellent comparsion.. but the breeding is perfection as well,, THE HORSE OF A LIFETIME!!!!
moortown11 2 years ago
I've followed thoroughbred racing all the way back to the day's of Secretariat in 73'. I follow the American as well as the European horses. I don't know if I've ever seen a stronger horse on turf than STS. That's saying a bunch because Europe has had some great grass horses. Galileo, Giant's Causeway, Shergar just to name a few.
GBeret83 2 years ago 2
@GBeret83 I don't understand why you're getting so excited about STS : he didn't exactly "eclipse" Rip Van Winkle here and neither did he ever win any of his races with any great authority. He had a decisive but very short-lived turn-of-foot which made him pretty boring to watch. His best win was his Arc but even that was unimpressive. He quickens for a few seconds but then fades away. What's all the fuss about ? A GREAT horse would never have had to struggle to win, as STS does here.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast 'boring to watch' LMFAO outrageous comment but youre entitled to your opinion!!! tell u one thing tho, he has the finest record of the modern era, no horse has ever done what he did, g1 every month and winning those races consecutively!! his times were also faster than dancing braves in all their consecutive races, and youd think dancing brave would have bettered at least ONE of the times set by STS, seeing as how 'fast' DB was!!strange that!
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
STS is the greatest, he would never have been beaten in 2009, anybody who knows anything about racing would agree, and to add to it mick kinnane onboard.
sohocube 2 years ago
I think STS is great with that absolutely devastating acceleration, I just wish he had raced for another year because I love him so much.
Although I am glad he didn't go to Santa anita because most likely he wouldn't have taken to the surface or whatever.
Do you not think he resembles the great arc winner Ribot (physically)
barbaro370 2 years ago
@barbaro370 I think he is the best looking racehorse since Golden Fleece in '82 and before that Nijinsky in '70.V.O'brien always said Golden Fleece was a magnificent looking horse with an enormous stride,depth of girth and constitution.Nijinsky speaks for himself but I can't comment on the Great Ribot.
guitarlegend32 2 years ago
Steinbeck is the horse for the 2000 guineas.And ST Nicholas Abbey will win the Derby i got 25/1.I hope SNA is not in the 2000 guineas
henryfan9 2 years ago
I dont think we ever seen sea the stars run to the max of his ability he never really got tested but its due to his brilliance there is just nothing good enough to do it! my opinion on st nicholls abbey is he will be a serious prospect but i have a feeling steinbeck will be the number 1 3 year old for next season he was unlucky to get beat on his last run and wouldnt have been up to full fitness
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
He was tested here I think.
mika1983 2 years ago
St Nicholas Abbey... Whats the opinion??
Parkratheniska 2 years ago
best horse ever in my opinion for his age
dcos74 2 years ago
He definitely had a "turn of foot" that you don't see very many 3yr.old colt's have. He just really accelerated at will. He ran like an older colt IMO.
GBeret83 2 years ago
Sea The Stars always had too many gears for any of the horses he faced. He always pulled out more and his stride was so long and quick. This horse was unbeatable in 2009.
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago 2
Totally agree Oscar.This horses record is UNIQUE.Brilliant mover/accelerator.Would make Zenyatta look like a selling plater.
guitarlegend32 2 years ago
I don't think he would have made Zenyatta look that poor but I agree he was unique and was the top mover/accelerator of 2009 and if not of all time.
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
that doesnt mean rip van would have won...but, i m just saying...
kadir1982 2 years ago
Good comment Kadir but I do think that STS in a sense was 'toying with him'.Rip was immensely disappointing in the U.S, although I would like to add one thing.He looked good after this run at Goodwood but only o.k at Ascot.The form of this race is outstanding but I don't think he really improved afterwards.This in a sense was down to AOB trying desperately to confirm his 'class' that he didn't stop going on about all season.I wouldn't be surprised if Rip stayed in training.
guitarlegend32 2 years ago
he DIDNT accelerate really...if u look very close at 3 43 or 3 44 when rip van got really close to him, see the stars jockey whips him and almost whips rip van winkle in the face, which made him check and pull out a lil and lose the charge...
kadir1982 2 years ago
The racing post have just published a book on STS....its really good and a must for any fans....has got all of his acheivements in it.
RacingGee 2 years ago
The kind of race he ran in this race was the kind of race I really felt Rip Van Winkle would run in the Breeders Cup Classic. Really disappointed with his finish. But Zenyatta was much the best that day.
GBeret83 2 years ago
uve yet to see a Great sprinter, doubt we'll come across a Dayjur anytime soon, Sakhees Secret looked the part for a season but we need something to dominate the sprint scene for at least a few years
cmcgarth1O 2 years ago
sts and db 2 fantastic horses,and db arc win was against a very classy field. a lot of folk seem to forget about lamtarra which in my opinion was very underrated
cuzzy1965 2 years ago
STS is certainly a champion, but DB is still the best horse i have seen he had several gears.
draxzula 2 years ago
Sea The Stars would quicken twice in his races, this shows he was playing with his competition, look at the International looks likee he is beat yet is pulling double and wins easily. Dancing Brave i recall was beat twice in his 3 year old career, and anyone who thinks Mtoto would have beaten Sea The Stars are retarded.
drofheim 2 years ago
I don't think horses have had the same fame in the past 10 - 15 years as before - Nijinsky, Shergar, Desert Orchid, Red Rum, Nashwan, Dancing Brave, etc. are all legends.
But there are still horses that have stood out in recent times - Best Mate and Kauto star for example. Sea the Stars should definitely be added to that list.
hobnob1979 2 years ago
New Approach is a personal fav of mine and im probly biased but i dont think he got the credit he desrved, i wont get into it cause ill be here all night, Manduro, Zarkava, Goldikova, Sea The Stars are all horses ill remember as great from my few years being into racing, ive seen plenty other class horses like Dylan Thomas, Henry The Nav, Authorized,to name a few, but they 5 were a bit special. Its probly cause its all about money now where as it was more of a sport in the great days gone by
cmcgarth1O 2 years ago
People reading this will think that Dan Patch was some American wonder racehorse.
He raced, yes - but he was a harness horse ( trotting horse) who was not a thoroughbred.
Arkle was a househole name in Britain and Ireland during the 60s, often on the front pages of newspapers and on tv. He is certainly more know this side of the pond than some old trotting racer called Dan Patch.
Then there's Nijinsky and Red Rum - equally lauded by the UK public.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
I wouldnt worry too much as i have over the last few days, ive realised some ppl just dont care for what is there in front of them but choose to see what they desire. Most objective ppl will read that guy and the just as they say PUT A LINE THROUGH IT
cmcgarth1O 2 years ago
I said at the time, and till the end of the season when ure evaluating form, this was the best mile and quarter race run in europe this year. Today i can say this was the best mile and a quarter race run in the world this year.
dessiesdoneit 2 years ago
Dessie. The problem is that horse racing just doesn't have the same impact as it had, say, at the time of Dan Patch. We still remember the great horses of the past. Today, it is all about people like David Beckham, Serena Williams and Tiger Woods. In the last century, horses had this sort of fame. Hollywood movies were made about horses like Phar Lap, Seabiscuit and of course, Dan Patch.
SugarTomAppleRoger 2 years ago
a horse like this is bread and butted for a commentator, they know before the race what there going to say
dessiesdoneit 2 years ago
What does the commentator say at 3:50?
hobnob1979 2 years ago
He ( Jim McGrath - Aussie commentator ) says -
" He accelerates - it's Sea The Stars ... he's coming away... a stellar racehorse... "
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Ahhh!! Thanks! He definitely was a stellar racehors.
hobnob1979 2 years ago
As we are still in the first decade of this particularly century, we ( the real horse racing ) fans will make allowances for stupid and absurd comments which only serve to highlight a person's ignorance, as well as their over enthusiasm.
Sea The Stars is the best throughbred to have raced this century. The proximity of Twice Over to Zenyatta in the Classic suggests to me that the US "wonder mare" is inferior to Sea The Stars. Put simply, she would not sprinted by him like she did the others.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
MrPapaBill. I agree that the century has only started, and another champion may come along. I personally think the best horse in the last century was Dan Patch. He also ran in the first part of the last century. Eclipse is the most recent great one you have had to my mind in Britain. Note that this race is named after him. If STS is so great, then the race will be renamed the Coral Sea the Stars maybe.
SugarTomAppleRoger 2 years ago
Eclipse, an 18th century horse - the most recent great we have had ? I do know all about Eclipse, and the fact that this race was named after him.
He was most certainly the greatest of his time, but the fact remains that the opposition he faced was well, slow and pathetic by comparison. He was awarded many races on the walk over rule - being that many trainers thought it pointless to take him on. Impossible to gauge his true worth vis-a- vis the modern day thoroughbred.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
i wish i had your ability to allow, i get severely worked up when reading some of the comments
dessiesdoneit 2 years ago
Sea the Stars is exciting to watch, plain and simple. They all wanted to get him, but nobody could touch him. He's a true champion.
hobnob1979 2 years ago
hobnob. There is one. Zenyatta. This one can beat STS easily. Zenyatta is the horse of the century.
SugarTomAppleRoger 2 years ago
If we had imaginary races! If you read my comment properly, you would know I was talking about the horses that RACED him, past tense - Rip Van Winkle, Delegator, Conduit, etc. They were the ones that tried, but couldn't beat Sea The Stars.
I don't care if Zenyatta could have beaten him or not, because they never raced together.
hobnob1979 2 years ago
hobnob. The thing is that STS was entered into the BCC. The owners quickly pulled him out once they saw the opposition, namely wonder mare Zenyatta.
SugarTomAppleRoger 2 years ago
eh Zenyatta was only entered in the classic when sea the stars was retired.....
HighChapparral 2 years ago
High. Now that's what I call a smart horse. Zenyatta is like the great Dan Patch. He was the subject of many books and Hollywood films, unbeaten, household name, most well known athlete at the start of the century. It all sounds familiar. You will be lucky to see another like the great Zenyatta.
SugarTomAppleRoger 2 years ago
i honestly feel for you m8
dessiesdoneit 2 years ago
lol did u not see the betting m8? 14s twice over haha i didnt even see him sniffing arses here, was he even in the race? lmao i think he finished at some point, but he defo ran up to the same form when 3rd in the greatest race of history against Gods very own horse and managed to go down by the narrowest of two lengths. I really do believe there should be a statue of twice over at every major course in the uk as he got so close to the divine.
dessiesdoneit 2 years ago
Who cares about race times - no racehorse ever races to set the fastest time, it's always to win!
Otherwise they'd do "time trials" instead.
hobnob1979 2 years ago
Although Sea The Stars' posted the fastest Eclipse winning time ( as I said ), the course record was set by Guy Harwood's Kalaglow, when he won the 1982 Brigadier Gerard Stakes. Kalaglow went onto win the Eclipse a few weeks later, but finished in a time that is 5 secs slower than Sea The Stars'.
I reiterate; this was one helluva performance from Sea The Stars.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
I/m 52 and been on them since Snow Knight delivered a 50/1. I loved the Brigadier but Stars is even better.
jonnythewhitefoot 2 years ago
wow...he just earned my humble respect...being in the US i didnt think much of this horse and what the fuss was about him...this is the 7th race of him that i watched of him (on youtube) and i cannot beleive that he has that extra gear in him...geez, did u see the last furlong, how he responded???special...very special
kadir1982 2 years ago
i dont know what horse you are watching but every time he is asked a question he just quickens up and does the job thats all he has to do and thats pure class i dont think you understand that he idles up front so they cant race him like that thats why it does not look as impressive as it is
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
sorry i think i replied to the wrong person
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
Dancing Brave was never involved in an epic tussle like this one (Sea The Stars vs. Rip Van Winkle). It's great to watch but it proves to me that STS was no better than, e.g. Nashwan. He never won any of his races effortlessly so despite his unbeaten record his class must be suspect. But just use your own eyes : his turn foot (in this race and in all the others) doesn't last ...
zarakhast 2 years ago 3
watch the arc his turn of foot is amazing he doesnt win his races bu much because that it the way he races he goes to sleep if he is left uf front for 2 long plus he has won over a mile to a mile and a quarter so he has to have a turn of foot that lasts or he would not have won all his races
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
another thing you should look at conduit won the breeders cup the other night sea the stars beat him twice this year and he is an older horse than sts
kopkingstevie 2 years ago
So what you are sayin is STS accerelated faster then DB and that is to his detriment !! Unusual source of argument.
As regards his defeat in the derby Starkey rode to a trainers instructions.A trainer who at that point did'nt believe he stayed a true run 1m4f race.
STS was up in the van the whole race because he had natural speed and a confident trainers instruction which allowed him to win the derby.
By the time DB got into full stride STS would be in the winners enclosure.
TheBroph1 2 years ago