Timothy Evans Grave, St Patrick's Cemetery, London

[baraxor]

A lot more people have been accidentally--or negligently--killed by armed police than have been executed by a miscarriage of justice. Should we ban police from using firearms?

Evan's conviction and execution were brought about by a) the belief that a part-time police officer would never lie, b) England's historic disdain for considering degrees of murder, and c) its equally historic preference for a recklessly rushed appellate process.

[trimas3]

I hear "innocent "at 0:54.

[philcomic1]

as the justice system is to blame for this misscarage of justice it is the states responsibility to maintain timothy evens grave for all eternity sadly once again the state let him down by the looks...... thankyou for uploading this sir.

[GuildfordGhost]

@philcomic1 You make a good point. However, this was a few years ago and I believe this important site is now maintained with a more deserving dignity.

[ILiveOnMyBoat]

@GuildfordGhost If it's not been then can I suggest a few of us get together and sort it out?

Although have no connection with them - feel Mr Tim Evans and his family have had a never ending horror story to deal with. Only his half sister remains.

Posthumous pardons, a few english pounds (paid out in 2004 - 54 years)

The condascending legal system that refuses to 'walk through' quashing the conviction another 'man' admitted committing (after he had helped convict him of it).

Keep this alive

[MyVorpal]

R.I.P Timothy Evans

[trimas3]

I hear the voice at 0:54. She says "innocent."

[rockstarcaden]

Who is the female at 0:34 that says innocent? And the male that says exactly right afterwards? 

[GuildfordGhost]

@rockstarcaden I thought you were making some comment about my not-very-deep voice, but you're talking about EVP, aren't you? Can't hear anything.  Sorry.

[trimas3]

@GuildfordGhost Yes , it is an EVP of a female and male talking. You have to listen real hard, it sounds like a whisper.

[DubiousBrown]

Timothy Evans has never to this day had his conviction quashed by the court of appeal.

He was pardoned in the 60's for the probability he did not kill his daughter. Reports have also said Christie admitted to killing Evans's wife

These jumped up simpletons in parliament still can't raise enough spirit to put right the FACT that they sent this boy to the gallows for a crime he did not commit.

He was found guilty on the statement of a serial killer committing perjury ffs.

Now that is a disgrace.

[sail1948]

As good a reason for abolition of the death penalty that I can think of.

[GuildfordGhost]

@sail1948 His 1965 posthumous pardon, during the provisional suspension of the Death Penalty, is indeed viewed as being one of the contributing factors.

[TheMoll60]

christies killed them all evan,s was a backward man. and a possible alcoholic..

[DontVoteCameron]

He would have picked his headstone up after this surely.

Now my comment will upset some people as I believe 2 hangings were completely wrong and this being one of them. It took so many years to clear their names and have them re-buried because they admitted in court to fabrication of statements.

May I state the law is an ass on these VERY FEW occasions.

200 plus other hangings never courted wrongful coviction.

Yesterday we have some nonce claiming stardom for killing 3 women. He lives..

[ukpropaganda]

Does it say 'sorry' on the stone?

[GuildfordGhost]

@ukpropaganda Nice comment. Genuinely.

[johnnycheck99]

He was pardoned in 1965 for NOT committing the murders. I bet that made him feel a hell of a lot better. A great argument for never bringing back the death penalty.

[mertonparka]

There is evidence to suggest Evans may have been responsible for his wifes death. He was only ever charged with the murder of his daughter( which christie later confessed to). Christie never once to confessed to the murder of Beryl Evans

[shardennefroider]

@mertonparka - wrong way round. Christie confessed to Beryl's murder several times (maybe to support a plea of insanity) but never confessed to the killing of Geraldine

[mertonparka]

@shardennefroider My apologies! thanks for the correction

[JamesMorganLondon]

"He was hanged for NOT killing...." What a strange thing to say!

[GuildfordGhost]

Err... fair point, but you know what I was saying. It was quicker than saying 'He was hanged for killing his wife and daughter but has since been pardoned because he didn't', though by now typing that I've somewhat defeated the object...

[deanhunt121]

@GuildfordGhost We don't know he didn't kill her....although admittedly there was enough doubt for him not to be convicted.

[GuildfordGhost]

@deanhunt121 That's fair enough, but when you consider that Christie was in the same building, who was killing women in a similar way before and after, you have to admit it is EXTREMELY unlikely.

[cracklesnapqueen]

This poor guy. What a tragic story. I believe his memorial has now been restored and looks better than this.  RIP

[ricmilu]

Have you read pierpoints autobiography? What does he say of Haighs, Christie, Cummins and Ruth Ellis` final moments/ last words?

Thanks for the help, youve been great:)

[GuildfordGhost]

Hello. I do indeed have his autobiography. I have a signed letter from him as well and even one of the actual envelopes and letters sent to him from the Home Office in 1934 to assist at an execution! However, I can't recall offhand what he says of their final moments. I vaguely recall that Christie said nothing and that Ellis was dignified. Check out Syd Dearnley's autobiography as well, but be prepared to read the writings of a nasty piece of work.

[ricmilu]

Thanks, so wheres Christie buried. Come to that wheres Haigh, george smith and Gordon Cummins.

Thanks for any help:)

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi. As far as I know, they all still lie in the confines of the prisons where they were executed. Christie at Pentonville (where Tim was hanged), Smith and Maidstone and Haigh and Cummins at Wandsworth. I have a collection of Haigh's original family photos, once property of his biographer, Arthur La Bern. It includes the actual famous childhood shot of him as a choirboy used in all the books and magazines.

[MrArtVanderlay]

Beryl Evans is my most very favourite dead person called Beryl.

Here is my top 5 list of dead Beryls in order of preference:-

1. Beryl Evans (Murder Victim) 1929-1949

2. Beryl Reid (Actress) 1920-1996

3. Beryl Cook (Artist) 1926-2008

4. Beryl Markham (Horse Trainer and Adventurer) 1902-1986

5. Beryl Burton (Cyclist) 1937-1996

If anyone else has their own list of favourite dead people called Beryl, I'd be interested to hear from them.

Cheers !!!

[ledzeplad]

What the fuck is up with you???....you don't make fun of peoples misfortune.

[GuildfordGhost]

^ What a post! I never got an e-mail telling me about this one as it was put as a reply. I did meet someone once who lived as a child in Rillington Place and used to see Christie out walking a little dog.

[mush1955]

Its a pity that his body was'nt taken home to Wales, his grave would have been looked after with some respect !

[GuildfordGhost]

You know, I totally agree.  Excellent comment.

[awelshl]

I think that it's disgusting that he was hanged for a crime he didn't commit and the fact that Christie knew he wasn't very bright and took advantage of that. R.I.P Timothey x

[ricmilu]

This has got nothing to do with evans but you seem the man in the know on old graves, I know hes still in the grounds of a working prison but have you seen any photos of Hawley Crippens grave? Is it true it has a rose bush planted over it.

Is it still unmarked?

I guess you cant ask for a tour ;(

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi - there's no photos of HH Crippen's grave (I have a receipt signed by him and typed by Le Neve days before he fled the UK!). He was hanged in Pentonville and buried in quicklime. I had heard it was under flagstones but if there are markers or a rose bush there today, I couldn't tell you.

[rabbithog]

not alot of people know this but christie was from county mayo in ireland, what do you expect

[GuildfordGhost]

John Christie was born in 1898 and came from Halifax, Yorkshire.

[amarone1956]

You are correct.

[sjdelves]

Reggie was born 1899. He was actually convicted of just one murder. Arguably that makes him no more a serial killer than Evans a murderer

[GuildfordGhost]

Yep, you're right in the first respect - 8 April 1899. In the second respect, we can beg to differ. That's like saying Charles Manson is simply guilty of cutting off Gary Hinman's ear.

[PirateSkip4]

YUK ....the B&W movie of this story really scared me when i was small ,i've never forgot about Mr Christie,

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi - the film is in colour and dates from 1970 (starring Richard Attenborough & John Hurt) but most of the stills you'll see are in B&W. There is, however, actual B&W documentary footage of the interior of 10 Rillington Place. I remember when I was a child the film was shown late-night on TV and my parents wouldn't let me watch it.

[PirateSkip4]

u r right it was colour , i just remember a dark movie and a dark horrible house and that creepy man lookin through the curtain.. he's filthy.

[alanheath]

And my mother told me about the day that Christie was arrested....

[skungpoomery]

Evans was only ever tried for and convicted of the murder of his daughter - not his wife. When that conviction was found to be unsafe he received a posthumous royal pardon. Whether he actually killed anyone remains controversial - Christie never confessed to the murder of the baby but perhaps only because that would have been too awful even for him to accept.

[GuildfordGhost]

You are quite right. I firmly believe Evans to be completely innocent of everything except not reporting Beryl's death. Christie was such a devious, cunning little monster that he knew very well admission to the murder of a baby would lose him any chance of a reprieve, not that he had a snowball in Hell's chance of one anyway.

[amarone1956]

He was probably the most sinister of murderers. Haigh and Heath are not far behind.

[coralarch]

RIP Timothy Evans, may the earth rest lightly upon you, Beryl and Baby Geraldine.

[bp1963p]

Hello/This is a terrible and tragic story./Quite often, in documentaries, it is acknowledged that the Evans hanging was the beginning of the end of capital punishment in the UK./Why doesn't anyone say that Mrs. Evans tragic death is a good argument for safe and legal abortions?/As a 44-year-old feminist, I find it frightening that a woman had to put her life into the hands of a sick landlord in order to terminate an unwanted pregnancy./Think about it./Cheers.

[loveroftruth7]

Tim Evans never wanted his wife to have an abortion......at least this is how the film portrayed it. She should never have contemplated such a thing with her landlord. Still, Christie was a murderer and he would have had his eye on her anyway.......if he hadn't got her that way, he would probably have found another moment to murder her........

[romanticrecluse]

What a terrible tragic story, I remember it well. His wife Beryl and baby Geraldine are buried in Gunnersbury Cemetery. So sad. This family must have known such fear. It breaks my heart and makes my blood run cold just thinking about it. God rest their souls.

[GuildfordGhost]

Hello. Yes, I visited their graves the same day as I first visited Tim's when I was still a teenager one very hot summer. I recall Kenneth Williams is buried in the same cemetary.

[romanticrecluse]

Hi. They appeared to be buried alongside a man called Henry Potter, so I can only assume it is a communcal grave but at least they are at peace now. I had no idea Kenneth Williams was buried there, I thought he was cremated. I have seen Sir Carol Reed's grave, he who directed the film musical Oliver! and so many other great movies.

[GuildfordGhost]

Yes, indeed, they are in a communal grave. I can't vouch for the status of Williams' remains, but I do know that one of the staff there showed me his grave and it had the right date of death. If he was cremated, maybe the ashes were buried rather than walled up or scattered?

[MarcJboy]

Yeah me and maisieraine were together when we went up there, GuildfordGhost earlier (Today 17.5.08), so on behalf of myself and her, your welcome mate - great video, keep up the good work, nice vids on the 'Ripper' ladies, well done!

[GuildfordGhost]

Thanks to you too, Marc. I'm a Jack the Ripper tour guide and author, hence the Ripper clips.

[MarcJboy]

You're welcome - keep up the good work. Fascinating that you are a 'Ripper guide! Take care!

[marsieraine]

We went to Timothy Evans' grave on 17.5.08, and it has now been cleaned up, the headstone placed as it should be, it looks really pristine and like new. There were some faux roses placed in the glass square pot, and one rose was placed on his grave, looked quite deliberately placed that way. A tribute to a tragedy.

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi - thanks for adding that info. It's good to know.

[164man]

thanks for the info

[OnionHead1988]

Put the headstone back up for him

[GuildfordGhost]

Agreed. It should have something done. I tried to see if I could, but not only was it pretty heavy (didn't want to damage anything) but there's no way it would stand up by itself.

[imy2k316]

Could we pay someone too do it ? I will happly be up for sorting out the cost!

[GuildfordGhost]

That's a great and benevolent suggestion. However, family wishes are often the primary stumbling block.  Some of us wished to make a memorial for Ripper victim Annie Chapman, but her family strongly object to it. Here, though, there might be a case to answer.

[imy2k316]

Need to look into that then :(

[Creolelady281]

Guilford Ghost- I did not know that the husband was hanged for his wife's murder. I thought Christie was convicted of this crime. Tell me what evidence did the police have to convict Evans of this crime?

[GuildfordGhost]

They didn't really have any apart from the fact that Evans had confessed, then changed his statement twice more. Christie had lied to Evans about what had happened to his wife, he lied about what would happen to his daughter and he lied in court. Because Evans was a known liar who had had violent rows with his wife and Christie was erudite in Court, they killed an innocent man. I daresay it's not the first or last time and it no doubt happens outside the UK today.

[Zorro263]

Interesting video, thanks for showing it...

I remember seeing an old clip here on YouTube showing Rillington Place being demolished but i can't find it now, can anyone point me to it ?

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi - odd. I know the clip. Silent footage - it used to be linked directly on the right but isn't now. Have you tried putting in RILLINGTON DEMOLITION into YouTube's search engine?

[Zorro263]

It's ok i have the footage now, it's not on Y/T anymore i had to get it elswhere, it was taken down for some reason, maybe © i don't really know.

Thanks anyway.

[countkostaki]

I've read extensively on this subject, visited (what was then) Rillington Place, and also read (partially) the post mortem exam report on Beryl Evans.  I still can't believe that even now people still try and say that the Scot-Henderson report was correct - it was flawed in so many places it's ludicrous!

[goldyn123]

evans was found innocent wasnt he? hope chritie rots in hell,letting an innocent man hang for his murders.

[GuildfordGhost]

Tim was pardoned in 1965, 15 years too late. I'm sure Christie is indeed rotting in Hell. He's a fascinating creature. I've met one or two people who knew him in passing.

[goldyn123]

What did they say about him?

[GuildfordGhost]

Nothing earth-shattering. I met one old man nearly twenty years ago who used to live at the end of the street and see Christie walking a dog on the way to the newsagents and a woman lived in the street and said she would always see him hanging around by the window or lurking outside his door.

[goldyn123]

when i watch the film 10 rillington place it still makes my skin crawl.its sad to say but we live in a fucking toilet world and theres probably another john christie out there.

[tali4569]

what damaged his case was the police were called on various occasions to rillington place over evans having bust ups with his wife

[GuildfordGhost]

Are you the person who's recently joined CASEBOOK? If so, you'll know me from there under a different ID. If not, you have a similar ID yourself.

[AndyJsJ29]

Theres another interesting case like this. Dereck Bently got hung just cos he said 'let him have it chris'. What sort of evidence is that lol! Don't think it's on youtube though. Evans did'nt even have a lawyer present when he signed those statements it just seems really odd. No comment is the usual way to reply in initial interviews and a lawyer would have told him this.

[AndyJsJ29]

If he was mad he would'nt have hung.

[GuildfordGhost]

Again, not true. That's a misunderstanding of the MacNaughten ruling - that the murderer was aware that what he was doing was wrong. Christie knew exactly what he was doing at all times. That does not make him sane. He would only have managed to save his neck had he been able to prove that he didn't believe he was breaking the law.

[AndyJsJ29]

Yeah, does seem strange. I'm suprised Christie moved out with all those bodies stuffed in the walls! Surely he would have been better off staying put to avoid detection of the corpses. Still, great film and interesting case.

[GuildfordGhost]

Indeed - you'd almost think he was mad. Oh...

[AndyJsJ29]

I don't have an opinion on the subject of his innocence or guilt. In the movie it shows him signing a statement where he said he strangled his wife and baby. Thats the bit i found odd.

[GuildfordGhost]

Again, it's something the film does not explain. There's no mention in the film of the hours of coercion and bullying he underwent and there's even a suggestion that he had no idea what he was actually signing; remember he couldn't read. I do see where you're coming from but ask yourself just this one question : how likely is it that there were two murderous necrophiles who gassed and strangled (mostly young) women in one house at the same time?

[AndyJsJ29]

My eldest kid is 12 years old and she would'nt walk into a cop shop and say she had killed someone if she had'nt. Maybe he and Christie were both killers, who knows?

[GuildfordGhost]

With all due respect, I think you need to read Ludovic Kennedy's '10 Rillington Place' from 1961.  Firstly, never take anything in a film at face value. Secondly, he never went into the Methyr Vale Police Station and confessed to killing his wife and duaghter - even in the film, he went there to say he had disposed of her body down a drain after he had found her dead. I'm probably not going to sway your opinion, but I'm glad you're very much in the minority.

[AndyJsJ29]

Can't say i have an awful lot of sympathy. If he was anything like the guy in the movie then he almost commited suicide.

[GuildfordGhost]

Tim Evans was illiterate and had the mental age of a 12 year old. Christie totally exploited him and he confessed to being 'responsible' for the deaths of his wife and child immediately after being told that his baby daughter - who he thought was alive - had been murdered. At that moment he would have realised his wife, Beryl, had not died accidentally but had also been murdered by Christie. In no way is Evans culpable for his wrongful execution.

[contrafib]

I suggest you read more sides of this story rather than relying on Ludovic Kennedy's book, which is largely based on circumstantial evidence. I have read extensively on this subject, and it's a case that will never be solved satisfactorally. The report that got Evans off concluded ridiculously that Evans killed Beryl and Christie killed baby Geraldine, something noone else ever considered.

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi. You are assuming I don't have five different books on the case (including Kennedy's, granted).

[contrafib]

This was because Evans was only tried for the murder of his baby, so this conclusion meant Evans could be pardoned, but noone had to admit they'd made a mistake when it looked like they had. I respect your opinion, but everyone always says Christie bullied Evans, as if they were there. There are too many points to go into but i will if you're interested.

[molen5]

So when did this happen? When did the stone fall??

[molen5]

I've had to come back and watch this again! I'm really P*ssed off about this! I read about the case a few years ago before I saw the film. Are there no family about that could do something?

Funny how these thing happen. For about 30 odd years John Lennon's mother Julia Lennon's grave just had a sinple wooden cross. There was never a stone erected.

I think it's a shame. To think no one knows really that he's there, no flowers etc. Bloody shame, bless you Tim.

[AndyJsJ29]

It was vandalisised.

[GuildfordGhost]

I would say 'unbelieveable', but sadly it's not. Bastards.

[molen5]

Damn Waltham Forest Council!! They could easliy restore the grave, I've had dealings with them in the past for spelling Fanny Cradocks name wrong on the blue plaque at her birthplace in Leytonstone. Waltham Forest Council, bloody shame on you, you ARS*HOLES!!! Grrrrrr, in a way I'm pleased I left England!!!

[GuildfordGhost]

I'm pleased so many people care, to be honest. I didn't realise there were people on a site like YouTube who would have even heard of Evans. I'm sure Fanny Craddock's name is spelt properly and she just disguised some of the letters with food dye.

[molen5]

My wife and I have been grave visitors of famous graves etc for years. We new Tim was in Leytonstone etc.

Fanny's name is spelt in the normal incorrect way of Craddock!

But then so is her death certificate spelt that way!! Luckily the plaque for her and johnnie in Eastbourne is spelt correct!!

[lYDIA5787]

what a shame.

[CastletoKarma]

Oh! I missed that... Christie vs Christy. Christy Moore: a good one let me assure you.

[GuildfordGhost]

Yep - I think Chalres Manson is the only singer/songwriter serial killer we need. :o)

[CastletoKarma]

Ballisadore Folk Festival, Summer of 1978, Christy Moore sang this ballad to Tim Evans at a mighty acoustic session and to this day, his singing of that song won me over as fan of Christy's. This video clip is nicework-but sad.

[GuildfordGhost]

Ah, Christy - he's a good man. I think he was probably gigging about the time of the Evans case! Coincidence of name not lost on me...

[CastletoKarma]

Said Christy Moore not around that long; though he's around a while now. He'd have picked up song from Ewan McColl. "Coincidence" of name? Not sure what you mean here.

[GuildfordGhost]

Christy... Christie. It was a weak comparison. I should have let it lie.

[GuildfordGhost]

I agree - besides the grave of Ripper victim Mary Jane Kelly, this is why most people would visit St Patrick's.  Money should indeed be set aside for its restoration.

[Martinreferee]

You would think that the government who killed Timothy would repay him in some way by fixing the headstone. Will they? NO CHANCE.

[Martinreferee]

I suspect there has been an insurance claim somewhere down the line causing all Councils and Churches, etc. to safeguard any chance of injury claims by laying down damaged/loose headstones. My belief is that, if after a period of notification the headstone remains in its laid down state and looks like the grave is not maintained, for the want of a better word the headstone will be disposed of, to prevent them looking like Beirut.

[Martinreferee]

Just to let you know that I doubt very much the headstone has fallen down but is more likely to be the case that it has become unsafe like so many headstones in Britain and has been laid down like that to prevent falling and injury to persons. Quite likely that there are no family members to tend to the grave and no money left in his estate to repair it.