Re: Philosophy Blog: FREE WILL

[sicktoaster]

that the question "Do we have free will or is it determinism?" is itself a false question.

[sicktoaster]

And therefore every choice we make is in some way a product of circumstances.

BUT it is impossible to ever reach a point where an individual or even society will be able to predict these circumstances fully.

And since at the quantum level there are so many fluctuations in spacetime it's possible that the choice determines the circumstances just as much as the circumstances determine the choices.

Hence, the whole free will vs. determinism question is inherently impossible to solve ever, meaning..

[sicktoaster]

All arguments about free will are really arguments over the semantics of "free will".

Can people make choices? Yes.

Do people make choices without there being some sort of influence on their choices? No.

Are these influences always perceptible? No.

Are the same influences always perceptible to the same observers? No.

Is it ever possible to know 100% what influences are contributing to our choices? No. For that to happen you would need to be hard-wired to the entire space-time of the Universe.

[shineforce]

this man reminds me of jack sparrow lol irony--free will, jack sparrow is the opposite of that becuz he constant chained to his desires XD

[tolstoythegreat]

the answer to the question is to stop asking

[thetubemeister]

Yeah it's an interesting discussion, I'm guessing that when you refer to the fact that there are so many concepts against the idea of free will/choice you are referring to determinism, in all honesty I find such lines of thought slightly over simplified and impractical, evasive even, that ignores how convoluted a discussion of freewill inherently is...Ultimately it depends on your perspective, the narrower the perspective, the more 'solid' boundaries there are to keep certain premises plausible.

[moegreen2]

. Please, don't use the god card, you should be able to defend philosophy with reason, if not, it's faith? To me, the idea of free will seems like a paradox. Why would we choose something other than the best choice? That would be stupid? So why would we need free will? And would not that make us very random and chaotic?

[moegreen2]

3. (posted backwards) I think our actions are based on values and programming, but dose that make my freedom of choice less? I don't think so. I can act on impulses, and so on. But it makes me watch what values to adopt and not a bit more. Here is a good belief; always change to the better for yourself and your family. You can adopt this belief or not (but you don't have a choice? So u might need to read the sentence many times if you want it to work?)

[Enleuk]

"The best arguement I have heard is against it is that since we make choices based on our desires"

No, "desire" is just as illusory as "will". It is just neurological stimulation that determine our actions.

It's easy to see: the conscious part of the brain is informed AFTER your body has reacted. The point of consciousness is not to make free choices, but to let the brain learn from it's past actions and the neurological pathways this process creates then affects future reactions.

[chigen5]

anybody know what song is playing right at the end of this?

[freesouljah]

"Don't Let Me Down" by the Beatles...from a live performance...

[Stunt2009]

Well I'd have to say everyone has free will. You can do whatever you want but then there are other humans that will supply you with consequence. The most f*cked up thing about this planet is the fact one human can lock another up for life. I'd say everyone should remain neutral and worry about themselves. Because afterall, the only person one can improve is themselves.

[freesouljah]

and improving yourself might take many lifetimes...

thank you for sharing man... 8D

[xixPANTERAxix]

I think free will is real. The best arguement I have heard is against it is that since we make choices based on our desires and we can't control our desires, then we really aren't making free choices. But think about this. You have to pick between A and B, and you really don't care what you pick. If we were just motivated by desire how could we possibly pick? we couldn't. But we can pick one, easily. So something else has to be going on.

[havonastudios]

You pick something arbitrarily based on a whim. This whim is an unconscious or biological process; it exists outside of the conscious mind. It is, therefore, an unconscious decision; not a conscious one. The illusion of free will is concerned with conscious choices. It is a self-deception that claims that your awareness alone can somehow influence the ego-based decision making process. Awareness does not act. The ego mechanism acts on information provided to it by our sensory mechanism. Basic.

[skulldaggery]

more over...

We don't even know what the mind is... how can we even agree on whether it works with cause or effect or not? how can we even begin to be bothered with the idea, when we still know relatively nothing of this system we work within? how can a caveman tell you what a microchip is for when he doesn't even know

[freesouljah]

through discovery...if we don't at least try to figure it out...then we are letting the opportunity go to waste...

[skulldaggery]

of course... but build me a nuclear reactor. At least try to figure it out... Oh wait there are too many things you don't know about it to even start. THAT'S what I'm talking about. most people are out of their league when it comes to even mentioning free will. you and I included. there is an order to discovery. you must learn to crawl before you walk et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[skulldaggery]

dude you're dumb.

[freesouljah]

compared to what?

[skulldaggery]

I meant you need to understand the inner most system to understand the outermost one... you can't try to figure out what free will is without having a base in physics, biology, and metaphysics... and you can't ignore them and talk about waves, and chains, and other allegories. It's just mental masturbation like that.

[mrhumanbeing]

Freewill, Destiny, and collective consciousness are inseparbly combined, in a manner similar to the behavior of 5 people going white water rafting in the same boat.

Freewill to choose the purpose and challenges of your trip, destiny that a plan has been set in motion to get you down the river once your the boat, and collective consciousness that everyone in the boat is aware of each others strengths and weaknesses and wisdom, for both teamwork and acceptable thoughts, or topics of conversation.

[freesouljah]

well put...

[skulldaggery]

dude take this, physics are a working force in the universe that abide to certain laws... Things happen a certain way because of it. But our idea of anything in this universe is based on ideas generated during a more primitive, more eloquent but less informed time.

How can we truly 100% base any of this hypothetical nonsense on any of that? we can't.

what it is?

[skulldaggery]

dude you're a blithering common place spouting, poor man's revolutionary idiot.

[Hellpartyboy4]

Humanity is on the road of self-destruction. Religion is suicide. Capitalism is a bloodthirsty bat on the neck of the planet. Money, God, nationalism. Those are the diseases of our time. Money, that makes us forget about the starry skies and rainforests. God, that forces us to conform and be a part of the herd, just another sheep. And the national boudaries, that denies the truth that this is planet, not a warzone of some angry ideologies.

[Hellpartyboy4]

Who is right? Majority. Who brainwashes majority? People on powers. Who are those people? Teachers, cops, parents, priests, Fox News, tools of propaganda machine. It's only insanity. Brainwashed people eating each other, puking and then eating that vomit, symbolically.

[Hellpartyboy4]

We are victims of our time. Nothing has changed. We have not evolved a shit since the year 1. Look how many people get so excited about seeing that Saddam hanging video. Okay, he was a cock, but my point is that it won't help anyone or anything, it just proves the humans bloodlust and shit. Saddam Hussein or Jesus Christ? Both were killed. Maybe 2000 years later Saddam will be our new messiah. He died a martyr death.

[Hellpartyboy4]

Humanity is meant to be free. We are suppose to have free will and make our own decisions. That is an ideal, but the main reason we do not have that freedom is power. Those authorities who decides how we should live our lives, what is right and wrong, exist because big part of humanity is not ready to handle the power itself, because that gives them sense of insecurity.

[mattji]

if you were chained, you would be unaware. if you are free, you would be unaware. free will shouldn;t be thought as an absolute but as a progression or regresson of freedom and slavery.

[Erlir]

Free will - Will which is free from influence of any non-you(self).

If the self is entirely a collection of the past--mind and body, how exactly can the self will anything which is not in any way influenced by past?

Assuming that the self existed, granted for the purpose of this, and that self did will ONE will which was free of influence from the non-self, then doesn't that mean that the self is not made up entirely out of the past?

[ntokmid]

are u a part of the rasta religion?

[freesouljah]

I am not a part of any religion...or better yet...I am a part of all religions...

[ThePrisonerIs1]

Good take on this!

[burnvictim77]

Interesting. I'm about to watch part 2. I'm making notes, and I'll do a response vid, probably this evening.