She is a sprinter. Would beat all but Frankel probably at a mile. 1400 no problems. Horses can't be this fast and get a mile or more. frankel will develop into a mile -2000m horse as he keeps maturing. Cannot compare, it's like saying Michael Johnson is better than usain bolt - bolt would destroy him at 100m but Johnson would eat him over 400m. I love these horses. Can't wait for BC to unload in Dubai and Europe, the whole world deserves to see her. And Frank, well I hope he continues as he ha
He may have been Champion Sprinter if he had gone that route last year the way he attacked the Guineas demonstrated that and he absolutely annihilated the Champion Sprinter in Europe Dream Ahead for a turn of foot. Im not sure he'd have beat Black Caviar over 6 furlongs but Im not sure she could give him much of a race over 7 furlongs or 8 furlongs espcially on the undulating tracks in Britain. The surfaces she races on back in Aus are like carpets compared to over here...
If Black Caviar could settle she may have a chance against Frankel over a mile but to Me she looks an out and out sprinter, Shes never stepped above 6f's and weather she can harness that power and pace is yet to be seen. Theres no doubt in My mind if she turned the gas on against Frankel that early on he would swamp her in the last 2 furlongs hes an impressive finisher over 8 furlongs like Black Caviar is at 6 furlongs. I can't ever see them meeting because Frankel is an out and out miler...
@ASupremeOwl Eagle Falls - Group 1 winner, Star Witness - Dual Group 1 winner (twice placed in Group 1's in England incl head 2nd in Kings Stand after missing the start - was beaten by 10 lengths behind Blk Cav here), Crystal Lily - Group 1 winner (winner of WORLDS richest 2yo race Golden Slipper year before - got 8kg's off Blk Cav here), Response - Group 1 winner, Beaded - 6 times Group 1 placed, Hinchinbrook - 4 times Group 1 placed & Group 2 winner. The ONLY donkey here is you !
The poor Aussies are desperate to have a World Champion, Its got that desperate there mentioned Black Caviar in the same breath as Phar Lap who was a genuine Champion. Shes a 6furlong sprinter. Like the Official handicapper sees it...
Frankel 136
Black Caviar 132
End of story. If Black Caviar had a 6 furlong race with Frankel over the Rowley Mile... Frankel wins, If its on a carpet like surface shes used to down under she may get home ahead!
she is an amazing horse but 1 thing we have to remember all distance horses start out sprinting and doing it very well. they move up in distance because of bigger purses and more prestegious races.any legit grade 1 distance horse can get 6 furlongs in under 110.look at a horse like ghostzapper watch his vosburgh race and tell me if youve ever seen a sprinter of any era that would have beaten him.
Look at that accelleration. She was already outrunning the others a couple seconds before Nolen actually let her run. I think Frankel and Black Caviar were born for the first match race between a stallion and a mare. It'll take place next year!
just so awesome, I'm Aust, here she brings another 30.000 at the track each time she runs, she is out great Champ, so you better watch put, she might be coming to beat you :) My mum even watches her on T.V, and my mum has no interest in horses at all, just greatness
she has that famous acceleration that only few horses posses. Perhaps the greatest sprinter of them all i predict 20 or 25 wins no loss retiring undisputed champion
Anyone who thinks either Frankel's speed or turn of foot are superior to Black Caviar's is dreaming. In this particular race she ran the first 1000 (5F) in 55.62 - the world record for 5F is 55.2. She ran the 1200 in 107.36 eased down on the line - the world record is 106.6. She was asked for an effort 300 out and put 4 on the rest like they were standing still. Frankel's an amazing horse but it would be him trying to keep up with her sheer pace at anything up to 7F.I Hope she can stay 1600!
Respond to this video... Are you stupid?? Over 1 mile 2 or 1 mile 4 she would be Frankel?? Caviar is a 6f horse how could she win 1 mile 2 against Frankel?? Any race Frankel will win he is too fast for her!
@MrStripYourGirl Comprehension isn't your strong point is it? I said Frankel would not get near her over 1200 or 1400, but the race would be on if they extended her to 1600. Maybe.
@turtle271 6 furlongs it would be a good race but the outcome is a Frankel win if they are both neck and neck and both kick for home Frankel is a faster horse! A 6 furlong race would be the best chance Caviar would have of beating him although she still wouldnt beat him over 6 furlongs. Anything higher than a 6 furlong race e.g. 1 mile then the race will be even easier for Frankel!
@MrStripYourGirl Seeing 6f is BC pet distance it wouldn't be neck and neck because BC can step up a gear when the whip gets cracking, yet neva really needs it as a gentle push will do, whereas Frankel needs the whip constantly, in a close one let alone to catch up. Over the 1200 Frankel would see nothing but dust. Diff class horse.
@browser067 How does Frankel need the whip you mug? He recieved the whip 3 times in the 2000 Guineas after scorching away 15 lengths clear on the Rowley Mile which is basically unheard of. He was asked to keep up his work because he was merely idling. When as Frankel ever needed the whip to keep up with the pace?? Name Me one time? Against Canford Cliffs he didn't even get a crack of the whip and beat the one time best horse in the world by 5 Lengths. In the QE2 he got 3 cracks of the whip to..
@ASupremeOwl Best you watch the 2011 Queen Elizabeth at Ascot again. Say no more. You mugg. You ppl and your petty squabbling replys are laughable. You are all comparing oranges to apples. One is a SPRINTER, the other a MILER. So they are both great over their own distances.
@browser067 maintain the advantage. I have never ever seen Frankel recieve a crack of the whip to keep up with pace, He hasn't faced an horse capable of matching his stride pattern its absolutely out of this world. Black Caviar is a fine horse but shes dominant at 6f, Shes never stepped above it so to even mention her in the same breath as Frankel at 7 and 8 furlongs is laughable. Shes never had to endure any undulations in tracks. Most of the tracks in Australia are like carpets....
@ASupremeOwl Hahaha another stupid comment from Mr Supremo. Your reply says it all. BC has never stepped up above 6f but will b in the coming mth or so up to 7f. Yet Frankel has never stepped down to the 5 or 6f. So whats your point.
@browser067 Ascot and Newmarket are up there with the most testing courses in the world thats why horses come here to cement there reputation as world champions. Black Caviar is constantly beaten inferior animals shes never even beat an animal ranked in the top 10 horses in the world wereas Frankel as beaten 5 already, Have a think about that one. She'll be beat in Europe of that Im sure...
@browser067 Wait till she actually faces some stiff opposition like Sepoy etc then we'll talk about how good she is. We know shes better than Haylist, She's beaten him how many times now? Boring...
@browser067 Theres noway Black Caviar as faced anything near the likes of Frankel nothing with that much ability so I find it hard to believe you think he would see nothing but dust, How do you know when you've never seen it? Mine and your opinion counts for nothing but the International Handicapper does and he sees it like this...~
@ASupremeOwl Wow 136-132. big difference. You should think be4 replying with such stupid comments. In this post you say how do i know without seeing it, YET in another you posted you say if Frankel races BC at 6f which is BC pet distance regardless where it would be, over the RM, Frankel wins. HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT?????
@browser067 Frankel would beat her comfortably IMO. Frankel as raced far far superior opposition to anything Black Caviar as faced at her preferred distance. Haylist is the only horse of note IMO, We know she is better than him but the rest are a complete set of donkeys. Frankel would give them the same treatment if he faced them even at 6f. Look at the way he attacked the Guineas over 6f he was quicker than most sprinters in Europe and hes been winning Gr1's at a mile. Frankel is a freak...
@ASupremeOwl Get your hand off it. Hay List is the world's 2nd best sprinter and Black Caviar has beaten him pointlessly EVERY time ! Black Caviar smashed Star Witness by 10 lengths in this race (what could have it been if they rode her out to the line ?). Star Witness went to Royal Ascot after this and was beaten a lip after missing the start and being a clear last on settling !!! Up to 1400m she is unbeatable. It's that simple !
@ASupremeOwl It's a fact Aussie sprinters go to England every other year and WIN and most are not even our best !! Ever heard of Choisir, Takeover Target, Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast, Starspangledbanner ? They ALL WON in England in the past 10 years you fool. Black Caviar could carry that lot on her back and still beat your hack sprinters !! I hope Hay List goes for Kings Stand as he'll demolish them & Black Caviar is far far superior to him, as you will see in Golden Jubilee
@leedelaney70 Since I've been following racing since the mid 80's I've heard of every single horse you mentioned that have come over to Royal Ascot and won all are fine horses, Nobody was doubting that you clown. Even after your long and ever so boring rant you've still not convinced Me that shes beat nothing but donkeys. In her years of racing shes never faced a top 10 rated horses according to the official handicapper, Frankel as wiped the floor with 6 as a 2 year old and 3 year old...
@ASupremeOwl Yep the "donkeys" she's beaten, I mean embarrassed, have won in excess of 25 Group 1 races. What a pack of donkeys they are.....I just hope there are lots more idiots who doubt her and lay her on Betfair. I'll be able to retire early come June
@leedelaney70 Shes a good horse but to say she could have put the likes of Takeover Target and Miss Andretti on her and back and still win is a ridiculous statement, Shes clearly a fine horse but beating Haylist countless times is nothing that special hes only rated 23rd in the world for crying out loud. Shes had years to step abroad and race in Dubai, England, USA. Shes stayed at home beating the same horses over and over. Lets hope the undulating Ascot doesnt end her unbeaten record...
@ASupremeOwl "Shes stayed at home beating the same horses over and over."......and Frankel has travelled to which countries ? As everybody knows the "world ratings" vastly overRATE European horses. In saying that I do believe Frankel is the real deal. He does look like a very very good horse to me. Just how good will depend on what he does this season when he races in open class for his entire prep. Black Caviar, a mare, has been thrashing open class horses for 2 years and counting
@ASupremeOwl She has just turned 5, at her peak so watch out england, no horse in the world will beat her up to a mile.
She has not been put through her gears once in her 18 wins, if she is challenged it would be a moment to remember for every human being that sees her in the flesh, a magnificent, perfect thoroughbred, she will be unbeaten in her career.
And I dont hear the owners of frankel considering venturing over to our shores to show how good he is.
@bluerocktanjil Why does Frankel need to travel down under? He's already rated number one in the world is currently the World Champion racehorse. Surely the contender for that title would need to travel all the way down there...
Black Caviar needs to travel abroad because her international reputation goes as far as the Sydney coastline!
@ASupremeOwl That's funny as Peter Moody said on radio he has fielded questions with French, American, English and Japanese media THIS WEEK and just so you know....they're not suburbs of Sydney !! Oh and by the way, Black Caviar lives in Melbourne
@leedelaney70 Racing in Europe is far more competative than down under, So You Think found that out. I know Australia produces the best sprinters but I wouldn't be suprised if she was beat in Europe. Shes not getting any younger...
@ASupremeOwl I would be astounded if she was beaten at Royal Ascot. The only way I can see that happening is if she is beaten by another Australian horse, such as Hay List, Sepoy or Foxwedge. However, for that to happen they would need to improve significantly. It's not beyond the realms of possibility however its highly unlikely
@leedelaney70 Sepoy for example is a fine horse and since he is set to have a European campaign with Godolphin he could be the horse to give her most to do. Lets hope she stays to the sprints because a stiff mile in Europe would be the undoing of her. Frankel would eat her alive...
@ASupremeOwl lol lol and that coming from who has taken the time to comment on every post I have written as well as check whether I have posted on any other subjects.....who's the freak ? As for girlfriends well the proff is in the pudding and my pudding tastes delicious
@browser067 The funny thing is nobody even knows if Black Caviar stays a mile. She'd need to stay 1600m in Australia IMO to get a mile at Ascot or Newmarket. The undulations in the track are far different to anything in Australia were the tracks are as flat as they come. Listen to the bald guy training Black Caviar....
@browser067 Sorry she'd probably need to stay further than a mile in Aus to get it here in Europe. 1700/1800m. She looks to have too much speed for a mile, She'd burn herself out against Frankel...
Yes she has won on dead and slow. Unless it rains from now till then she will win by six. Crystal Lilly is definitely good enough to go to royal ascot and win. That's if she didn't die last week.
I'm quite certain it's not very likely to happen? But I would love to see Black Caviar use her "win and your in" berth that she won in this race for the Breeders Cup Turf Sprint at Churchill Downs in November!! It would be awesome to see her dominate the American and Euro sprinters in that race. As I'm certain she would!!
Oh pls peopl u are giving me a headache. Sepoy yes he is a 3yr old now & going well. BC had abreak & coming back bigger. I dont think they will meet, she will have a few runs, then the target is ascot, & I will c our she travels, then make my winning victory comments.
@slobzer sorry, my bad for failing to be specific. What I meant was Sepoy will dominate the 3yr olds. I dont think he will meet BC this spring, maybe next year.
@spukkar yeh its exciting to see a new challenger to BC but to say sepoy will dominate is ridiculous,fair enough hes dominated every race except 1 hes been in but they were all against his own age and if BC raced against them she would beat them by just as far or probably further then sepoy did,Sepoy is a special horse though and maybe he is up to Black Caviars level but he certainly hasnt raced anything even close to her yet.
@spukkar Black Caviar has the unique quality of being able to get horses out of their comfort zone , there was a horse a few years ago in Gold Edition who i thought had mastered it until Black Caviar came along. She can break their hearts out in front and what makes Black Caviar even more versatile is she can settle. Its impossible to stack up the 3 year form with the older sprinters but i guess if there were to be any horse that could match it with BC in Aus atm , it would be Sepoy. Unlikey.
@MrJakobBrown She won that jump out by 6 lens in super fast time, beating Smart Missile among others. I would love to hear what his jockey had to say about the trial. SM was eased, probably for good reason. See the sectionals SM ran on the weekend after missing the jump, Jacob.
@SvendBosanvovski Was always going to be a very tough race for Smart Missile to win , drawn badly , big field but theres no doubting he was the best horse in the race. Helmet and Manawanui are flying , its going to be a very interesting Caulfield Guineas. Yes , Smart Missile wasn't asked to do much in the trial but neither was the Champ , she was very dominant. I have a feeling the grey in the trial was the speedy mare Avenue ? If it was , Wow. Black Caviar made her look like a Pakenham maiden.
@MrJakobBrown I agree with all of your observations, Jacob. I have been saying for a while that I think Helmet will turn out to be the best of this crop, even better than Sepoy, because he has more scope, judging from his breeding. We can make excuses for Smart Missile, but the great one's still win. The buzz is already in the air for Black Caviar's return. According to Pete Moody she is even better! Happy punting over the break, Jacob. Don't be surprised to see More Joyous win Friday.
@SvendBosanvovski They're almost inseperable. Sepoy will be rock hard fit with two runs under his belt and a trial , More Joyous has an outstanding first up record and will be suited by the likely wet track. I'll pass on this one , might box them in a trifecta with Happy Zero. Seperating Helmet and Sepoy is difficult , they will both end up winning some more G1's before they retire , both here and potentially overseas. Agree though , we've seen Sepoy , sky is the limit with Helmet.
@SvendBosanvovski Hi Sven, the interview I read with SM's connections said that he was at the trial more to try and improve his barrier manners than anything else. As I know you will have observed, he's not the best at the starting gates, whether it's getting into them or jumping out of them.
@emmelby SM should be on his best behaviour today, though. Going on his win over Spoy in the Todman, we might expect him to firm in the betting if it rains. I think its currently a Dead 5 track.
@Shakira0806 She'll get 7f or 1400m as it is here. The way she came home in the TJ Smith and her breeding suggest that she would be just as unbeatable over that distance.
@Shakira0806 Do you think Black Caviar could stay further then 6f ?. I could be wrong I dont know much about her other then the races I have seen her in. The way she finishes suggests to me she would stay 7f maybe even 8, 9 or even 10 furlongs.If she does then surely that is going to open up more opportunities for her? She has 100% proved to be the best over 6f , just look at her record and times. It speaks for itself. Can she do the same over further?
@MrNativeDancer It's an interesting question. While she's unbeaten connections aren't likely to step her too far outside of her 'comfort' zone. I have no doubt she could get much further. She settles very well in her races but she's never really been ridden out so far in her career. So it's hard to assess how close to her stamina window she gets.
@orinocodog Yeah it's unlikely, I think Black Caviar would get a 8F & be more than a match for Frankel, especially with the distaff pull in the weights. But there is too much money for southern hemisphere sprinters there's no need to mess with a winning formula. Frankel on the other hand proved in the Sussex, IMO, that he'd get 10F. Only SYT could match him at that distance. Although we're not likely to him see him again next year. On the WFA scale, at 4 Frankel will prove himself peerless. JMO
@orinocodog There has never been a horse that could out-pace Black Caviar. Hay List has achieved a higher rating so far in his career than horses the likes of Takeover Target, Scenic Blast, Miss Andretti & Silent Witness. Hay List achieved his 127 rating in the 7F G1 All Aged Stakes. I think Hay List could live with Frankel over a mile. Hay List couldn't get within 5L of Black Caviar over 5F. Too much speed for her? It's like saying Haille Gebrselassie has too much pace for Usain Bolt.
@Galileo3821 I know! The thing with whips it pushes a horse to hard. Why would you whip a horse when it is already running flat out as fast as it can go. Rewilding just one of many examples, being whiped when already going flat out, thats what caused his leg fracture, then next time out he breaks down! it happens all to often in racing. I love racing! I dont like seeing horses being abused! Pushing a horse to hard = Potential leg fractures = Horse breaks down = horse put down. BAN THE WHIP!!
Can any one imagine what the cross would be like between Frankel and Black Caviar?? What would the foal be like?? Breeding the two best horses in the world??
@MrNativeDancer Champions don't always produce champions. Secretariat and Tulloch, two of the greatest throughbreds of all time, were abject failures at stud. Even when their blood was mixed with great race mares, the result was the same. On a related theme, I often wonder if Phar Lap and Kingston Town has not been gelded, but allowed to produce offspring, whether they might have left some great marvel behind,.
@SvendBosanvovski So true it doesnt always work out. Its often the 2nd or 3rd generation, for some odd reason! Check this out Secretariat grand daughter Broad Appeal she has won over 4 and half million dollars. Super horse, she is trained in Japan but USA bred. Look at Native Dancer, every third generation produces out standing performers. Phar Lap would of produced top quality no doubt about that. Look at the line from Nearco 1935 the pattern is awesome. Sadlers Wells another example!
@MrNativeDancer It is well known down under that the mighty Kiwi mare Sunline is a decendent of Phar lap on the female line, in fact, seven generation removed from Entreaty, Phar Lap's dam. Fortune Wheel was a full sister Phar Lap and directly related to Sunline, probably the best female sprinter miler in the world in her day. Bu who knows? Maybe her brilliance came from elsewhere.
@bgardiner2000 Yes, indeed. Year after year huge money is paid for the best breds at the famous yeiling sales, and year after year they under perform. But the adverse is true as well. The breeding lines of unfashionably bred champions rarely produce another. In hindsight, Phar Lap, Kingston Town, Tulloch, and Bernborough appear to have been genetic mutations.
@SvendBosanvovski Go back a few years though.... and you literally couldn't win a decent race in Australia unless it was by Danehill or Zabeel. And you had no choice (as an owner) but to spend megabucks on yearlings by one of those two stallions.
@MrNativeDancer I have all of her races on VHS and you will get to see some on Sunline Videos Horserace Australia. The mighty mare died on May Day 2009, She had five offspring, one to Might and Power's sire Zabeel, three to Rock of Gibraltar, and one to Hussonet. The best of her progency was Sunstrike with 19 starts 2 wins 10 places in New Zealand. Her greatest win was probably the Hong Kong Mile, when she beat the brilliant HK Horse of the year Fairy King Prawn in an epic battle,
@MrNativeDancer I havnt read all the comments, but in theory it sounds great, but like Phar Lap's parents they didnt win a race between them. For the rest of the champs in a approx 100yrs, I havnt done the research. But Im pretty sure 3 Melbourne cups in a row "Makybe Diva's babies hasnt one a race yet. Sometimes u have to go back a liitle bit in fam trees, its the same with a lot of things
@Spursrule1969 If you are referring to So You Think, he has probably the best trainer in Europe making those decisions for him in Aidan O'Brien. He hasn't dodged any challenge with the horse. It was Workforce's connections who decided not to race their horse in the Tattersalls after seeing SYT's debut in Ireland. And Frankel's connections will pick easier targets as well. They want the Cartier award on his CV and SYT is the only other candidate at the moment.
@SvendBosanvovski On Wednesday the 17th 3:25 York, there will be a showdown. SYT vs Frankel, in the Judmonte International.. . This is the big one. It is such a shame Canford Cliffs will not be in the race. I say that if Frankel stays 1m2f and 88yards he will beat SO YOU THINK. How ever it could easily go the other way, there two of the best horses ever. Frankel just needs to prove he stays that new trip though. I think he will and stay even further but who knows until he tries?
@orinocodog So I suppose u could say, the same thing about "Zenyatta" from the US. She never left the US, but I have not heard anyone complain about her.
@orinocodog Yeah & they are?. So the same thing will happen with Black Caviar, I never herd the build up on "Zenyatta" I feel for her, if the jockey wasnt so behind, I think she would have won 20/20. But anyway she is safe & happy, thats the main thing.
@orinocodog Why? Because of the grand record of British sprinters? Please! ANZ has consistently produced the best sprinters in the world for the last decade or more. This is why the IFHA can say with so much confidence that she is the best sprinter in the world. I really hope you get to see her in Europe show-casing her amazing talents. But it will only prove, again, how far advanced the ANZ sprinters are of their European counterparts.
@taykyl001 hay list a fuckin average horse . BC only beats him every time she hasnt shown any form with other international horses . you's aussies make too big of a deal about sprinters thinking you's have the best horses in the world . she doesnt deserve the title of top rated horse in the world . frankel would destroy her anytime anywere . he has too much pace .
@keithfx010 Hasn't shown any form against the International sprinters? How about Eagle Falls, Ortensia & Star Witness? An idiot could draw a line through them and see just what a phenomenon she is. The only thing that will stop her from obtaining a 140+ rating in her career is the fact that she'll not have the competition to push her beyond the 135 mark, and she'll not race in handicaps. Her run in the Newmarket broke weight carrying and time records for the race.
@taykyl001 There are no need for whips in racing. I cant understand why pathetic jockey's whip a horse like hell when the horse is already running flat out at its best. Why do they punish a horse for running fast. It causes behavioural problems in a horse. Then the horse is reluctant to run or go in the stalls next time. Seen it many times. The Whip should be banned! Hands and heels riding is all you need. I can post 11 seconds a furlong on mine with no whip! what so ever! So why the need?
@MrNativeDancer I totally agree, Whips should be banned, absolutely no need for them. A horse can only run & fast as it wants & when it wants. A lot of champions have never had the whip used on them. Phar Lap, Secretariat (I think) Ruffian & Black Caviar (Im sure there has been others) but I cannot think of them all.
@taykyl001 I don't know about Phar Lap, either. Jimmy Pike was a great whip man and may have applied the few times the mighty horse lost. Black Caviar has been given a tickle to switch her on. You can see it on Youtube. In most of their races it would have been unnecessary.
@MrNativeDancer yes there is . the proper word for it is a persuader and it is air cushend . horse racing woulndn't be half as exciting as what it is now without the whip. we would never know who would be the best horse is if they were not pushed to their limits
@orinocodog Sorry thats rubbish dude! I have been riding horse for as long as I can remember! Many horses die when pushed to hard! Look at Rewilding, the race before he was whiped and whiped and whiped he won, yes but the next race he broke down and was put down! It happens all to often in racing! You care nothing for the horse!! You talk RUBBISH! Hands and heels riding is all that is needed! Some times they sustain fractures slow down are whiped and the horse does to much dies in next race!
@keithfx010 Read what I said properly you faggot! to put it simple! If a jockey does not read the distress signals on a horse! and keeps whipping, and whipping, the horse might have a hairline fracture or some thing wrong! now if the horse is made to carry on running when its had enough, that will cause that hairline fracture to become a clean break down siituation, what dont you understand lol Look at all break down horses previous races! the race before they break down! NOW DO YOU SEE?
@keithfx010 How many race horses have you rode? I been riding for over 20 odd years lol How many horses have you seen break down infront of you? NOT ON TV I mean in real life track side? How much research have you done? analysed data from horses that break down? what they did previously? Spoke to Jockeys, trainers etc. If you over excert a horse that is already sending distress signals by whiping, the horse does to much that small injury becomes big problem. So whip is directly responsible!
@keithfx010 Not in all cases ok, but some, say if a horse is running on hard ground, it wants to slow down, it has a fracture, naturaly the horse would stop. Now if some one is beating the crap out of the horse, the horse keeps running, the fracture becomes worse. So there for its the use of the whip that has caused the horse to carry on when he/she should of stopped, and in due course that tiny fracture becomes a life threatening injury. What made the horse carry on when it NEEDED to stop?
@MrNativeDancer well thats just tough these horses are in the game to make money not to be pampered if one happens to break down then thats just hard luck . It's not every day that a horse dies of the whip .
@orinocodog Its not just one though is it you idiot? Tell that to the stable staff that love there horses you great big dipshit!!! I do not not wish to speak to some one like you any more. Its not just about money. Its about the welfare of a fantastic animal who gives enjoyment to thousands of fans. What a heartless horrible person you are! Now go crawl back under the rock where you came from!! Being heartless you will never understand goodbye!!
@MrNativeDancer first of all i'm not an idiot a dipshit or heart less . I love horse racing and watch it nearly everyday . now you say that its not about money then why do trainers train horses, because its their job and how they make a living and the same with the jockeys and some owners . If you were to ask a jockey what he/she thought of the whip they would be in favourite of it . now if you took the whip away all thousands of fans would lose enjoyment from a great sport .
@MrNativeDancer rewilding didn't die because he was whiped it was because he took a wrong stride and broke his leg . when you say many horses die when whipped , they die because they fall over the jumps or lose their footing .
in the last sentence of your comment you are talking shite
@orinocodog He sustained a hairline fracture in the previous race because he done to much, why did he do to much? because of the whip dude!!! Then when he took the wrong stride which my horses do all the time, he broke down. My horses dont break down when they take a wrong stride! That hair line fracture became a major break dude! So why would you use a whip on a horse that is already doing flat out as fast as he can go?? Answer that please! BAN THE WHIP NOW! FFS
@MrNativeDancer The only reason your horses dont break down is because they are probably big donkeys of yokes with hugh tick legs . race horses are finley bred thourabreds . you would use a whip on a horse when it is flat out so it dosnt idle in front and so he sustanes his speed.
@orinocodog You talk CRAP I have one TB sired by Kings Theatre and one by Millenary dude proper race horses! you ignorant fool One is making his british debut very soon! ON A RACE TRACK LOL Like I said you have just demonstrated how STUPID YOU ARE! I wont reply to you again its a waste of time talking to some one that knows nothing about sustaining speed with just hands and heels! You have never rode a race horsein your life I can tell cause you speak such crap lol
@MrNativeDancer I agree that whip use is something that needs to be closely monitored and rationalised. However, I have come across many horses in my time that respond very well to a couple of cuts with the whip. Harsher penalties should be applied in instances of overuse... but remember, in the paddock you have 500kg+, immensely strong animals kicking eachother with steel shoes. Not sure how much pain a 50kg rider with 0 leverage can do.
@bgardiner2000 What really annoys me is the over use of the whip, not giving the horse time to respond etc and particularly if the horse is giving out distress signals. Lots of Jocky's understand when a horse is giving out distress signals and pull the horse up, but there are some that I wont mention here for obvious reasons who just keep whipping. One of them did recieve a ban and rightly so. Surely when lash marks are left on a horse that jockey should be banned for 6 months lol
@MrNativeDancer Every racing fan would agree with your criticism of over use of the whip. But it is instructive to note that the people who understand more than you and I will ever know about getting a 550kg ball of bone and muscle around a circuit in 70km/hr - the elite jockeys - are not keen on the restrictions. It a bit like giving a carpenter a rubber coated hammer because you a concerned about damage to the timber. Its a tool of their craft.
I have seen few horse, in my 50 years of going to the track, breakdown under the application of the whip. You read through stewards reports and they will confirm that most breakdowns occur because of the firmness of the racing surface (on premier tracks), or because the horse has had a history of lameness (usually congenital). That is why so much effort has been invested in improved track technology in OZ (all weather tracks, penetrometer reading to get the right softness etc).
@SvendBosanvovski Oh yeah absolutely agree about the ground as well. Hard ground is lethal to some, I would never run mine on anything firmer then good. However making a horse run on unsuitable ground, and whipping the horse making that horse run flat out on the hard ground could lead to fractures. The types of horseshoes are also a cause of fractures on hard ground. Sinse we switched to shock absorbing horse shoes we havent had one lame horse in 2 years.15 horses, So yep ground defo an issue!
@MrNativeDancer I appreciate your intelligent responses, ND. I remember when jockey's were permitted to wear spurs. Looking into the birdcage at Rosehill in the mid 60s when the great Des Lake was bringing a mount back, I was horrified to see the injuries he'd inflicted. Des was noted for his physical strength and vigorous application of the whip. He was the kind of rider you would place on a horse inclined to be a bit wayward or lazy. Spur were banned some years later to broad support.
@MrNativeDancer His connections will never let it happen. She would be too good for him over a the sprint course. They wont let him race SYT over 10f either, following his systematic demolition of their darling stayer, Workforce. They need to win the Eclipse UK Horse of the year. If SYT beats him, they would probably have to endure the prospect of an Aussie horse winning it for the first time. That would be too much for British pride. No, he wont race in the Juddemonte.
@SvendBosanvovski Sven you talk like a fool. I didn't see So You Think in the Sussex stakes, all we hear from you is SYT would beat everything from 1 mile to 2 miles, Why didn't he go for the King George (Europe's top summer middle distance race) or the Sussex ( top summer mile race), You got a win in a proper G1 and dont want him to run again, Thats why there is all this talk about running in the cox plate (what ever its called) he struggle to beat Workforce who got hie ar5e kicked.
@Spursrule1969 I have never made that claim for SYT. You obviously haven't been paying attention. SYT has beaten your champion, Workforce, fair and square. Workforce is a great horse, have no doubt about that. What he did in the Derby before backing up and winning the Arc is something few have achieved. He may get the double this year. Frankel is not tested beyond a mile. SYT has beaten the best. If F meets him over 10.5f I have no doubt how it will turn out. F connections know it, too.
oh nelly, how could people say that their horse can beat you? you are the best i believe nobody can beat you!!!! you are so amazing!
myheroblackcavair 1 week ago
Somebody once said to me, "the only place for knockers is outside the door".
Stainvita 1 week ago
Well said.
FosterBobron 2 weeks ago
She is a sprinter. Would beat all but Frankel probably at a mile. 1400 no problems. Horses can't be this fast and get a mile or more. frankel will develop into a mile -2000m horse as he keeps maturing. Cannot compare, it's like saying Michael Johnson is better than usain bolt - bolt would destroy him at 100m but Johnson would eat him over 400m. I love these horses. Can't wait for BC to unload in Dubai and Europe, the whole world deserves to see her. And Frank, well I hope he continues as he ha
Racingwriter85 4 weeks ago
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He may have been Champion Sprinter if he had gone that route last year the way he attacked the Guineas demonstrated that and he absolutely annihilated the Champion Sprinter in Europe Dream Ahead for a turn of foot. Im not sure he'd have beat Black Caviar over 6 furlongs but Im not sure she could give him much of a race over 7 furlongs or 8 furlongs espcially on the undulating tracks in Britain. The surfaces she races on back in Aus are like carpets compared to over here...
ASupremeOwl 4 weeks ago
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If Black Caviar could settle she may have a chance against Frankel over a mile but to Me she looks an out and out sprinter, Shes never stepped above 6f's and weather she can harness that power and pace is yet to be seen. Theres no doubt in My mind if she turned the gas on against Frankel that early on he would swamp her in the last 2 furlongs hes an impressive finisher over 8 furlongs like Black Caviar is at 6 furlongs. I can't ever see them meeting because Frankel is an out and out miler...
ASupremeOwl 4 weeks ago
Look at the horses behind her. A field of absolute donkeys....
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@ASupremeOwl Eagle Falls - Group 1 winner, Star Witness - Dual Group 1 winner (twice placed in Group 1's in England incl head 2nd in Kings Stand after missing the start - was beaten by 10 lengths behind Blk Cav here), Crystal Lily - Group 1 winner (winner of WORLDS richest 2yo race Golden Slipper year before - got 8kg's off Blk Cav here), Response - Group 1 winner, Beaded - 6 times Group 1 placed, Hinchinbrook - 4 times Group 1 placed & Group 2 winner. The ONLY donkey here is you !
leedelaney70 1 week ago 2
The poor Aussies are desperate to have a World Champion, Its got that desperate there mentioned Black Caviar in the same breath as Phar Lap who was a genuine Champion. Shes a 6furlong sprinter. Like the Official handicapper sees it...
Frankel 136
Black Caviar 132
End of story. If Black Caviar had a 6 furlong race with Frankel over the Rowley Mile... Frankel wins, If its on a carpet like surface shes used to down under she may get home ahead!
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
she is an amazing horse but 1 thing we have to remember all distance horses start out sprinting and doing it very well. they move up in distance because of bigger purses and more prestegious races.any legit grade 1 distance horse can get 6 furlongs in under 110.look at a horse like ghostzapper watch his vosburgh race and tell me if youve ever seen a sprinter of any era that would have beaten him.
tjjlm444 1 month ago
Can everyone stop going on about Frankel beating her , they will never meet , Shes a Sprinter , Frankels a miler
SCOTTinHd1 2 months ago
Look at that accelleration. She was already outrunning the others a couple seconds before Nolen actually let her run. I think Frankel and Black Caviar were born for the first match race between a stallion and a mare. It'll take place next year!
Alexducheval23 2 months ago
Shes a great horse and we share the same birthday 18th Aug (her actual birthdate)
Wilo18877 3 months ago
She looks like she just cruises through it. I'm proud of us Aussies. You rock, Cav! What a gorgeous horse :P
Ocicat101 3 months ago
just so awesome, I'm Aust, here she brings another 30.000 at the track each time she runs, she is out great Champ, so you better watch put, she might be coming to beat you :) My mum even watches her on T.V, and my mum has no interest in horses at all, just greatness
MrPlayfulxxx 3 months ago
she has that famous acceleration that only few horses posses. Perhaps the greatest sprinter of them all i predict 20 or 25 wins no loss retiring undisputed champion
leerockali 3 months ago
She's a good one. Reminds me of the way Dr/ Fager beat them. Is she as good as the Doctor? Maybe.
SugarTomAppleRoger 4 months ago
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Anyone who thinks either Frankel's speed or turn of foot are superior to Black Caviar's is dreaming. In this particular race she ran the first 1000 (5F) in 55.62 - the world record for 5F is 55.2. She ran the 1200 in 107.36 eased down on the line - the world record is 106.6. She was asked for an effort 300 out and put 4 on the rest like they were standing still. Frankel's an amazing horse but it would be him trying to keep up with her sheer pace at anything up to 7F.I Hope she can stay 1600!
sp3193 4 months ago
Frankel and Black Caviar in the same year, good times!
onecote 4 months ago
i would love to see black caviar at the breeders cup along with frankel and the best in america then we see who the best is
MegaNeilcool 4 months ago
@MegaNeilcool Black Caviar is the greatest horse i've ever seen. I honestly would like to see it compare to the other world wide greats.
JawsAteMyHomework 4 months ago
@JawsAteMyHomework Awesome horse I agree with you, but she would definitely not been Frankel!
MrStripYourGirl 3 months ago
@MrStripYourGirl My arse she wouldn't, over 12-1400 she'd smash Frankel. The test would be a mile, then it might be a race.
turtle271 2 months ago
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MrStripYourGirl 2 months ago
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Respond to this video... Are you stupid?? Over 1 mile 2 or 1 mile 4 she would be Frankel?? Caviar is a 6f horse how could she win 1 mile 2 against Frankel?? Any race Frankel will win he is too fast for her!
MrStripYourGirl 2 months ago
@MrStripYourGirl Comprehension isn't your strong point is it? I said Frankel would not get near her over 1200 or 1400, but the race would be on if they extended her to 1600. Maybe.
turtle271 2 months ago
@turtle271 6 furlongs it would be a good race but the outcome is a Frankel win if they are both neck and neck and both kick for home Frankel is a faster horse! A 6 furlong race would be the best chance Caviar would have of beating him although she still wouldnt beat him over 6 furlongs. Anything higher than a 6 furlong race e.g. 1 mile then the race will be even easier for Frankel!
MrStripYourGirl 2 months ago
@MrStripYourGirl Seeing 6f is BC pet distance it wouldn't be neck and neck because BC can step up a gear when the whip gets cracking, yet neva really needs it as a gentle push will do, whereas Frankel needs the whip constantly, in a close one let alone to catch up. Over the 1200 Frankel would see nothing but dust. Diff class horse.
browser067 1 month ago
@browser067 How does Frankel need the whip you mug? He recieved the whip 3 times in the 2000 Guineas after scorching away 15 lengths clear on the Rowley Mile which is basically unheard of. He was asked to keep up his work because he was merely idling. When as Frankel ever needed the whip to keep up with the pace?? Name Me one time? Against Canford Cliffs he didn't even get a crack of the whip and beat the one time best horse in the world by 5 Lengths. In the QE2 he got 3 cracks of the whip to..
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@ASupremeOwl Best you watch the 2011 Queen Elizabeth at Ascot again. Say no more. You mugg. You ppl and your petty squabbling replys are laughable. You are all comparing oranges to apples. One is a SPRINTER, the other a MILER. So they are both great over their own distances.
browser067 1 month ago
@browser067 maintain the advantage. I have never ever seen Frankel recieve a crack of the whip to keep up with pace, He hasn't faced an horse capable of matching his stride pattern its absolutely out of this world. Black Caviar is a fine horse but shes dominant at 6f, Shes never stepped above it so to even mention her in the same breath as Frankel at 7 and 8 furlongs is laughable. Shes never had to endure any undulations in tracks. Most of the tracks in Australia are like carpets....
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@ASupremeOwl Hahaha another stupid comment from Mr Supremo. Your reply says it all. BC has never stepped up above 6f but will b in the coming mth or so up to 7f. Yet Frankel has never stepped down to the 5 or 6f. So whats your point.
browser067 1 month ago
@browser067 Ascot and Newmarket are up there with the most testing courses in the world thats why horses come here to cement there reputation as world champions. Black Caviar is constantly beaten inferior animals shes never even beat an animal ranked in the top 10 horses in the world wereas Frankel as beaten 5 already, Have a think about that one. She'll be beat in Europe of that Im sure...
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@browser067 Wait till she actually faces some stiff opposition like Sepoy etc then we'll talk about how good she is. We know shes better than Haylist, She's beaten him how many times now? Boring...
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@browser067 Theres noway Black Caviar as faced anything near the likes of Frankel nothing with that much ability so I find it hard to believe you think he would see nothing but dust, How do you know when you've never seen it? Mine and your opinion counts for nothing but the International Handicapper does and he sees it like this...~
Frankel 136
Black Caviar 132
That says it all...
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@ASupremeOwl Wow 136-132. big difference. You should think be4 replying with such stupid comments. In this post you say how do i know without seeing it, YET in another you posted you say if Frankel races BC at 6f which is BC pet distance regardless where it would be, over the RM, Frankel wins. HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT?????
browser067 1 month ago
@browser067 Frankel would beat her comfortably IMO. Frankel as raced far far superior opposition to anything Black Caviar as faced at her preferred distance. Haylist is the only horse of note IMO, We know she is better than him but the rest are a complete set of donkeys. Frankel would give them the same treatment if he faced them even at 6f. Look at the way he attacked the Guineas over 6f he was quicker than most sprinters in Europe and hes been winning Gr1's at a mile. Frankel is a freak...
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@ASupremeOwl Get your hand off it. Hay List is the world's 2nd best sprinter and Black Caviar has beaten him pointlessly EVERY time ! Black Caviar smashed Star Witness by 10 lengths in this race (what could have it been if they rode her out to the line ?). Star Witness went to Royal Ascot after this and was beaten a lip after missing the start and being a clear last on settling !!! Up to 1400m she is unbeatable. It's that simple !
leedelaney70 1 week ago
@ASupremeOwl It's a fact Aussie sprinters go to England every other year and WIN and most are not even our best !! Ever heard of Choisir, Takeover Target, Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast, Starspangledbanner ? They ALL WON in England in the past 10 years you fool. Black Caviar could carry that lot on her back and still beat your hack sprinters !! I hope Hay List goes for Kings Stand as he'll demolish them & Black Caviar is far far superior to him, as you will see in Golden Jubilee
leedelaney70 1 week ago
@leedelaney70 Since I've been following racing since the mid 80's I've heard of every single horse you mentioned that have come over to Royal Ascot and won all are fine horses, Nobody was doubting that you clown. Even after your long and ever so boring rant you've still not convinced Me that shes beat nothing but donkeys. In her years of racing shes never faced a top 10 rated horses according to the official handicapper, Frankel as wiped the floor with 6 as a 2 year old and 3 year old...
ASupremeOwl 1 week ago
@ASupremeOwl Yep the "donkeys" she's beaten, I mean embarrassed, have won in excess of 25 Group 1 races. What a pack of donkeys they are.....I just hope there are lots more idiots who doubt her and lay her on Betfair. I'll be able to retire early come June
leedelaney70 1 week ago
@leedelaney70 Shes a good horse but to say she could have put the likes of Takeover Target and Miss Andretti on her and back and still win is a ridiculous statement, Shes clearly a fine horse but beating Haylist countless times is nothing that special hes only rated 23rd in the world for crying out loud. Shes had years to step abroad and race in Dubai, England, USA. Shes stayed at home beating the same horses over and over. Lets hope the undulating Ascot doesnt end her unbeaten record...
ASupremeOwl 1 week ago
@ASupremeOwl "Shes stayed at home beating the same horses over and over."......and Frankel has travelled to which countries ? As everybody knows the "world ratings" vastly overRATE European horses. In saying that I do believe Frankel is the real deal. He does look like a very very good horse to me. Just how good will depend on what he does this season when he races in open class for his entire prep. Black Caviar, a mare, has been thrashing open class horses for 2 years and counting
leedelaney70 1 week ago
@ASupremeOwl She has just turned 5, at her peak so watch out england, no horse in the world will beat her up to a mile.
She has not been put through her gears once in her 18 wins, if she is challenged it would be a moment to remember for every human being that sees her in the flesh, a magnificent, perfect thoroughbred, she will be unbeaten in her career.
And I dont hear the owners of frankel considering venturing over to our shores to show how good he is.
bluerocktanjil 1 week ago
@bluerocktanjil Why does Frankel need to travel down under? He's already rated number one in the world is currently the World Champion racehorse. Surely the contender for that title would need to travel all the way down there...
Black Caviar needs to travel abroad because her international reputation goes as far as the Sydney coastline!
ASupremeOwl 1 week ago
@ASupremeOwl That's funny as Peter Moody said on radio he has fielded questions with French, American, English and Japanese media THIS WEEK and just so you know....they're not suburbs of Sydney !! Oh and by the way, Black Caviar lives in Melbourne
leedelaney70 1 week ago
@leedelaney70 Racing in Europe is far more competative than down under, So You Think found that out. I know Australia produces the best sprinters but I wouldn't be suprised if she was beat in Europe. Shes not getting any younger...
ASupremeOwl 1 week ago
@ASupremeOwl I would be astounded if she was beaten at Royal Ascot. The only way I can see that happening is if she is beaten by another Australian horse, such as Hay List, Sepoy or Foxwedge. However, for that to happen they would need to improve significantly. It's not beyond the realms of possibility however its highly unlikely
leedelaney70 1 week ago
@leedelaney70 Sepoy for example is a fine horse and since he is set to have a European campaign with Godolphin he could be the horse to give her most to do. Lets hope she stays to the sprints because a stiff mile in Europe would be the undoing of her. Frankel would eat her alive...
ASupremeOwl 1 week ago
@leedelaney70 You have way too much time on your hands aswell, All you seem to comment on his Black Caviar. Get a girlfriend you freak...
ASupremeOwl 1 week ago
@ASupremeOwl lol lol and that coming from who has taken the time to comment on every post I have written as well as check whether I have posted on any other subjects.....who's the freak ? As for girlfriends well the proff is in the pudding and my pudding tastes delicious
leedelaney70 1 week ago
@browser067 The funny thing is nobody even knows if Black Caviar stays a mile. She'd need to stay 1600m in Australia IMO to get a mile at Ascot or Newmarket. The undulations in the track are far different to anything in Australia were the tracks are as flat as they come. Listen to the bald guy training Black Caviar....
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@browser067 Sorry she'd probably need to stay further than a mile in Aus to get it here in Europe. 1700/1800m. She looks to have too much speed for a mile, She'd burn herself out against Frankel...
ASupremeOwl 1 month ago
@JawsAteMyHomework Phar Lap is actually better and thats proven
IM NOT TRYING TO PISS YOU OFF!but Black Caviar is today's generation's Phar Lap
dickran2142battle 2 months ago
@dickran2142battle How's that proven? Are you kidding mate?
JawsAteMyHomework 2 months ago
@JawsAteMyHomework nop, im mean compare Black Caviar with
Secretariat or Man O War , Seabiscuit , Ruffian and Sham who would win?
i hate it when people think that todays horses are better than the past horses.
dickran2142battle 1 month ago
Yes she has won on dead and slow. Unless it rains from now till then she will win by six. Crystal Lilly is definitely good enough to go to royal ascot and win. That's if she didn't die last week.
Racingwriter85 4 months ago
Has Black Caviar won on soft going ? It will be interesting to see how she handles Royal Asot next year.
ThefightingCelt 4 months ago
I'm quite certain it's not very likely to happen? But I would love to see Black Caviar use her "win and your in" berth that she won in this race for the Breeders Cup Turf Sprint at Churchill Downs in November!! It would be awesome to see her dominate the American and Euro sprinters in that race. As I'm certain she would!!
GBeret83 5 months ago
Aussie fans of Black Caviar note: tonight (5 September 2011) at 7:30 ABC, Australian Story will feature a documentary on Black Caviar.
SvendBosanvovski 5 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Of course I watched BC story. She looks fit, healthy, relaxed. Cannot wait till Oct 8th.
taykyl001 5 months ago
SHES SO CUTE! she whips her tail all over the place EVERY TIME she races! ADORABLE!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
Oh pls peopl u are giving me a headache. Sepoy yes he is a 3yr old now & going well. BC had abreak & coming back bigger. I dont think they will meet, she will have a few runs, then the target is ascot, & I will c our she travels, then make my winning victory comments.
taykyl001 6 months ago
@taykyl001 agreed!
(i am making my victory comments already =P)
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@slobzer sorry, my bad for failing to be specific. What I meant was Sepoy will dominate the 3yr olds. I dont think he will meet BC this spring, maybe next year.
spukkar 6 months ago
Sepoy v black Caviar this spring? Gotta love sepoy, he will dominate.
spukkar 6 months ago
@spukkar yeh its exciting to see a new challenger to BC but to say sepoy will dominate is ridiculous,fair enough hes dominated every race except 1 hes been in but they were all against his own age and if BC raced against them she would beat them by just as far or probably further then sepoy did,Sepoy is a special horse though and maybe he is up to Black Caviars level but he certainly hasnt raced anything even close to her yet.
slobzer 6 months ago
@spukkar Black Caviar is on another level mate
BallyWesty 5 months ago
@spukkar Black Caviar has the unique quality of being able to get horses out of their comfort zone , there was a horse a few years ago in Gold Edition who i thought had mastered it until Black Caviar came along. She can break their hearts out in front and what makes Black Caviar even more versatile is she can settle. Its impossible to stack up the 3 year form with the older sprinters but i guess if there were to be any horse that could match it with BC in Aus atm , it would be Sepoy. Unlikey.
MrJakobBrown 5 months ago
@MrJakobBrown She won that jump out by 6 lens in super fast time, beating Smart Missile among others. I would love to hear what his jockey had to say about the trial. SM was eased, probably for good reason. See the sectionals SM ran on the weekend after missing the jump, Jacob.
SvendBosanvovski 5 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Was always going to be a very tough race for Smart Missile to win , drawn badly , big field but theres no doubting he was the best horse in the race. Helmet and Manawanui are flying , its going to be a very interesting Caulfield Guineas. Yes , Smart Missile wasn't asked to do much in the trial but neither was the Champ , she was very dominant. I have a feeling the grey in the trial was the speedy mare Avenue ? If it was , Wow. Black Caviar made her look like a Pakenham maiden.
MrJakobBrown 4 months ago
@MrJakobBrown I agree with all of your observations, Jacob. I have been saying for a while that I think Helmet will turn out to be the best of this crop, even better than Sepoy, because he has more scope, judging from his breeding. We can make excuses for Smart Missile, but the great one's still win. The buzz is already in the air for Black Caviar's return. According to Pete Moody she is even better! Happy punting over the break, Jacob. Don't be surprised to see More Joyous win Friday.
SvendBosanvovski 4 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski They're almost inseperable. Sepoy will be rock hard fit with two runs under his belt and a trial , More Joyous has an outstanding first up record and will be suited by the likely wet track. I'll pass on this one , might box them in a trifecta with Happy Zero. Seperating Helmet and Sepoy is difficult , they will both end up winning some more G1's before they retire , both here and potentially overseas. Agree though , we've seen Sepoy , sky is the limit with Helmet.
MrJakobBrown 4 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Hi Sven, the interview I read with SM's connections said that he was at the trial more to try and improve his barrier manners than anything else. As I know you will have observed, he's not the best at the starting gates, whether it's getting into them or jumping out of them.
emmelby 4 months ago
@emmelby SM should be on his best behaviour today, though. Going on his win over Spoy in the Todman, we might expect him to firm in the betting if it rains. I think its currently a Dead 5 track.
SvendBosanvovski 4 months ago
@Shakira0806 She'll get 7f or 1400m as it is here. The way she came home in the TJ Smith and her breeding suggest that she would be just as unbeatable over that distance.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@Shakira0806 Do you think Black Caviar could stay further then 6f ?. I could be wrong I dont know much about her other then the races I have seen her in. The way she finishes suggests to me she would stay 7f maybe even 8, 9 or even 10 furlongs.If she does then surely that is going to open up more opportunities for her? She has 100% proved to be the best over 6f , just look at her record and times. It speaks for itself. Can she do the same over further?
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer It's an interesting question. While she's unbeaten connections aren't likely to step her too far outside of her 'comfort' zone. I have no doubt she could get much further. She settles very well in her races but she's never really been ridden out so far in her career. So it's hard to assess how close to her stamina window she gets.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@Shakira0806 Good comment.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 She's a phenomenon.... over 6F she would blow the doors off Frankel.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@bgardiner2000 that would probably never happen
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog Yeah it's unlikely, I think Black Caviar would get a 8F & be more than a match for Frankel, especially with the distaff pull in the weights. But there is too much money for southern hemisphere sprinters there's no need to mess with a winning formula. Frankel on the other hand proved in the Sussex, IMO, that he'd get 10F. Only SYT could match him at that distance. Although we're not likely to him see him again next year. On the WFA scale, at 4 Frankel will prove himself peerless. JMO
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@bgardiner2000 if it was to happen frankel would have too much speed for her and out pace her .
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog There has never been a horse that could out-pace Black Caviar. Hay List has achieved a higher rating so far in his career than horses the likes of Takeover Target, Scenic Blast, Miss Andretti & Silent Witness. Hay List achieved his 127 rating in the 7F G1 All Aged Stakes. I think Hay List could live with Frankel over a mile. Hay List couldn't get within 5L of Black Caviar over 5F. Too much speed for her? It's like saying Haille Gebrselassie has too much pace for Usain Bolt.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@bgardiner2000 hay list would not get near frankel rating of 127 isnt that great seeing as frankel is rated 141 .
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog haha... ok. People who don't understand ratings shouldn't leave comments about them.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 I know! The thing with whips it pushes a horse to hard. Why would you whip a horse when it is already running flat out as fast as it can go. Rewilding just one of many examples, being whiped when already going flat out, thats what caused his leg fracture, then next time out he breaks down! it happens all to often in racing. I love racing! I dont like seeing horses being abused! Pushing a horse to hard = Potential leg fractures = Horse breaks down = horse put down. BAN THE WHIP!!
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
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orinocodog 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 no w
orinocodog 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 dancing primo 8.00 ffos flas
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 so do any horses tonite
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 ur a psyco
orinocodog 6 months ago
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orinocodog 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 a lad in our school
orinocodog 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 he was slagging me nd you coz we spend alot of time on the fone to dan
keithfx010 6 months ago
Comment removed
orinocodog 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 u cumin with me nd dan
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 wen i gave dat big long comment nd bosco is wat i call every 1
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 well u hear bout bellewstown theres a mix of rcing on both cards
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 by wat
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 what u think of dat comment bosco
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 she's a joke
orinocodog 6 months ago
i wouldnt waste my time putting black caviar with frankel shes not good enough
keithfx010 6 months ago
@Galileo3821 keith's coming on
orinocodog 6 months ago
Can any one imagine what the cross would be like between Frankel and Black Caviar?? What would the foal be like?? Breeding the two best horses in the world??
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer Champions don't always produce champions. Secretariat and Tulloch, two of the greatest throughbreds of all time, were abject failures at stud. Even when their blood was mixed with great race mares, the result was the same. On a related theme, I often wonder if Phar Lap and Kingston Town has not been gelded, but allowed to produce offspring, whether they might have left some great marvel behind,.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski So true it doesnt always work out. Its often the 2nd or 3rd generation, for some odd reason! Check this out Secretariat grand daughter Broad Appeal she has won over 4 and half million dollars. Super horse, she is trained in Japan but USA bred. Look at Native Dancer, every third generation produces out standing performers. Phar Lap would of produced top quality no doubt about that. Look at the line from Nearco 1935 the pattern is awesome. Sadlers Wells another example!
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer It is well known down under that the mighty Kiwi mare Sunline is a decendent of Phar lap on the female line, in fact, seven generation removed from Entreaty, Phar Lap's dam. Fortune Wheel was a full sister Phar Lap and directly related to Sunline, probably the best female sprinter miler in the world in her day. Bu who knows? Maybe her brilliance came from elsewhere.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
Comment removed
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Breeding blue bloods with blue bloods might not guarantee success.... but it improves your chances. A bit.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@bgardiner2000 Yes, indeed. Year after year huge money is paid for the best breds at the famous yeiling sales, and year after year they under perform. But the adverse is true as well. The breeding lines of unfashionably bred champions rarely produce another. In hindsight, Phar Lap, Kingston Town, Tulloch, and Bernborough appear to have been genetic mutations.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Go back a few years though.... and you literally couldn't win a decent race in Australia unless it was by Danehill or Zabeel. And you had no choice (as an owner) but to spend megabucks on yearlings by one of those two stallions.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer I have all of her races on VHS and you will get to see some on Sunline Videos Horserace Australia. The mighty mare died on May Day 2009, She had five offspring, one to Might and Power's sire Zabeel, three to Rock of Gibraltar, and one to Hussonet. The best of her progency was Sunstrike with 19 starts 2 wins 10 places in New Zealand. Her greatest win was probably the Hong Kong Mile, when she beat the brilliant HK Horse of the year Fairy King Prawn in an epic battle,
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer I havnt read all the comments, but in theory it sounds great, but like Phar Lap's parents they didnt win a race between them. For the rest of the champs in a approx 100yrs, I havnt done the research. But Im pretty sure 3 Melbourne cups in a row "Makybe Diva's babies hasnt one a race yet. Sometimes u have to go back a liitle bit in fam trees, its the same with a lot of things
taykyl001 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer it dosnt always work out like that
orinocodog 6 months ago
Whats the point of coming to Europe if you're not going to go for the big races?
Spursrule1969 6 months ago
@Spursrule1969 If you are referring to So You Think, he has probably the best trainer in Europe making those decisions for him in Aidan O'Brien. He hasn't dodged any challenge with the horse. It was Workforce's connections who decided not to race their horse in the Tattersalls after seeing SYT's debut in Ireland. And Frankel's connections will pick easier targets as well. They want the Cartier award on his CV and SYT is the only other candidate at the moment.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski On Wednesday the 17th 3:25 York, there will be a showdown. SYT vs Frankel, in the Judmonte International.. . This is the big one. It is such a shame Canford Cliffs will not be in the race. I say that if Frankel stays 1m2f and 88yards he will beat SO YOU THINK. How ever it could easily go the other way, there two of the best horses ever. Frankel just needs to prove he stays that new trip though. I think he will and stay even further but who knows until he tries?
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer It's not going to happen.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer syt is going for the irish champion stakes and frankel is going for the qe2 and canford cliffs is retired to coolmore stud .
orinocodog 6 months ago
she only beats the same horses every time in the same country . how is she the best in the world ??????????????
orinocodog 7 months ago
@orinocodog So I suppose u could say, the same thing about "Zenyatta" from the US. She never left the US, but I have not heard anyone complain about her.
taykyl001 6 months ago
@taykyl001 european horses went over to the breeders cup and she beat them .
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog Yeah & they are?. So the same thing will happen with Black Caviar, I never herd the build up on "Zenyatta" I feel for her, if the jockey wasnt so behind, I think she would have won 20/20. But anyway she is safe & happy, thats the main thing.
taykyl001 6 months ago
@taykyl001 rip van winkle a champion miler and twice over. black caviar has to come to the uk to prove herself
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog They plan to send her to Ascot next june. Gee I carnt wait for her to wipe the smiles off the Black Caviar haters.
taykyl001 6 months ago
@orinocodog Why? Because of the grand record of British sprinters? Please! ANZ has consistently produced the best sprinters in the world for the last decade or more. This is why the IFHA can say with so much confidence that she is the best sprinter in the world. I really hope you get to see her in Europe show-casing her amazing talents. But it will only prove, again, how far advanced the ANZ sprinters are of their European counterparts.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@taykyl001 hay list a fuckin average horse . BC only beats him every time she hasnt shown any form with other international horses . you's aussies make too big of a deal about sprinters thinking you's have the best horses in the world . she doesnt deserve the title of top rated horse in the world . frankel would destroy her anytime anywere . he has too much pace .
keithfx010 6 months ago
@keithfx010 fair play
orinocodog 6 months ago
@keithfx010 Hasn't shown any form against the International sprinters? How about Eagle Falls, Ortensia & Star Witness? An idiot could draw a line through them and see just what a phenomenon she is. The only thing that will stop her from obtaining a 140+ rating in her career is the fact that she'll not have the competition to push her beyond the 135 mark, and she'll not race in handicaps. Her run in the Newmarket broke weight carrying and time records for the race.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
Forget the quads
cliptwingz 7 months ago
Who's his mechanic?
cliptwingz 7 months ago
That one's carnivorous
cliptwingz 7 months ago
Oh pls shes not even trying.In the Uk they whip the shit out of them & they use pacemakers. what a joke SYT & BC dosent need them. As for Frankel
I would b to embarrased to watch. Now thats when u have to c a whip used (mayb)
taykyl001 7 months ago
@taykyl001 There are no need for whips in racing. I cant understand why pathetic jockey's whip a horse like hell when the horse is already running flat out at its best. Why do they punish a horse for running fast. It causes behavioural problems in a horse. Then the horse is reluctant to run or go in the stalls next time. Seen it many times. The Whip should be banned! Hands and heels riding is all you need. I can post 11 seconds a furlong on mine with no whip! what so ever! So why the need?
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer I totally agree, Whips should be banned, absolutely no need for them. A horse can only run & fast as it wants & when it wants. A lot of champions have never had the whip used on them. Phar Lap, Secretariat (I think) Ruffian & Black Caviar (Im sure there has been others) but I cannot think of them all.
taykyl001 6 months ago
@taykyl001 I don't know about Phar Lap, either. Jimmy Pike was a great whip man and may have applied the few times the mighty horse lost. Black Caviar has been given a tickle to switch her on. You can see it on Youtube. In most of their races it would have been unnecessary.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@taykyl001 They never had to use the whip with shergar.........
peggssy97 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer yes there is . the proper word for it is a persuader and it is air cushend . horse racing woulndn't be half as exciting as what it is now without the whip. we would never know who would be the best horse is if they were not pushed to their limits
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog Sorry thats rubbish dude! I have been riding horse for as long as I can remember! Many horses die when pushed to hard! Look at Rewilding, the race before he was whiped and whiped and whiped he won, yes but the next race he broke down and was put down! It happens all to often in racing! You care nothing for the horse!! You talk RUBBISH! Hands and heels riding is all that is needed! Some times they sustain fractures slow down are whiped and the horse does to much dies in next race!
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer ur talkin a load of bollox how can u say that breaking down is a cause of over whipping u muppet
keithfx010 6 months ago
@keithfx010 Read what I said properly you faggot! to put it simple! If a jockey does not read the distress signals on a horse! and keeps whipping, and whipping, the horse might have a hairline fracture or some thing wrong! now if the horse is made to carry on running when its had enough, that will cause that hairline fracture to become a clean break down siituation, what dont you understand lol Look at all break down horses previous races! the race before they break down! NOW DO YOU SEE?
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@keithfx010 How many race horses have you rode? I been riding for over 20 odd years lol How many horses have you seen break down infront of you? NOT ON TV I mean in real life track side? How much research have you done? analysed data from horses that break down? what they did previously? Spoke to Jockeys, trainers etc. If you over excert a horse that is already sending distress signals by whiping, the horse does to much that small injury becomes big problem. So whip is directly responsible!
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer how can whipping a horse cause a hairline fracture in the leg you've got me puzzleld
keithfx010 6 months ago
@keithfx010 Not in all cases ok, but some, say if a horse is running on hard ground, it wants to slow down, it has a fracture, naturaly the horse would stop. Now if some one is beating the crap out of the horse, the horse keeps running, the fracture becomes worse. So there for its the use of the whip that has caused the horse to carry on when he/she should of stopped, and in due course that tiny fracture becomes a life threatening injury. What made the horse carry on when it NEEDED to stop?
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer well thats just tough these horses are in the game to make money not to be pampered if one happens to break down then thats just hard luck . It's not every day that a horse dies of the whip .
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog Its not just one though is it you idiot? Tell that to the stable staff that love there horses you great big dipshit!!! I do not not wish to speak to some one like you any more. Its not just about money. Its about the welfare of a fantastic animal who gives enjoyment to thousands of fans. What a heartless horrible person you are! Now go crawl back under the rock where you came from!! Being heartless you will never understand goodbye!!
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer first of all i'm not an idiot a dipshit or heart less . I love horse racing and watch it nearly everyday . now you say that its not about money then why do trainers train horses, because its their job and how they make a living and the same with the jockeys and some owners . If you were to ask a jockey what he/she thought of the whip they would be in favourite of it . now if you took the whip away all thousands of fans would lose enjoyment from a great sport .
orinocodog 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer rewilding didn't die because he was whiped it was because he took a wrong stride and broke his leg . when you say many horses die when whipped , they die because they fall over the jumps or lose their footing .
in the last sentence of your comment you are talking shite
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog He sustained a hairline fracture in the previous race because he done to much, why did he do to much? because of the whip dude!!! Then when he took the wrong stride which my horses do all the time, he broke down. My horses dont break down when they take a wrong stride! That hair line fracture became a major break dude! So why would you use a whip on a horse that is already doing flat out as fast as he can go?? Answer that please! BAN THE WHIP NOW! FFS
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer The only reason your horses dont break down is because they are probably big donkeys of yokes with hugh tick legs . race horses are finley bred thourabreds . you would use a whip on a horse when it is flat out so it dosnt idle in front and so he sustanes his speed.
orinocodog 6 months ago
@orinocodog You talk CRAP I have one TB sired by Kings Theatre and one by Millenary dude proper race horses! you ignorant fool One is making his british debut very soon! ON A RACE TRACK LOL Like I said you have just demonstrated how STUPID YOU ARE! I wont reply to you again its a waste of time talking to some one that knows nothing about sustaining speed with just hands and heels! You have never rode a race horsein your life I can tell cause you speak such crap lol
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer you are probably one of these stupid animal lovers who dosnt have a clue .
orinocodog 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer I agree that whip use is something that needs to be closely monitored and rationalised. However, I have come across many horses in my time that respond very well to a couple of cuts with the whip. Harsher penalties should be applied in instances of overuse... but remember, in the paddock you have 500kg+, immensely strong animals kicking eachother with steel shoes. Not sure how much pain a 50kg rider with 0 leverage can do.
bgardiner2000 6 months ago
@bgardiner2000 What really annoys me is the over use of the whip, not giving the horse time to respond etc and particularly if the horse is giving out distress signals. Lots of Jocky's understand when a horse is giving out distress signals and pull the horse up, but there are some that I wont mention here for obvious reasons who just keep whipping. One of them did recieve a ban and rightly so. Surely when lash marks are left on a horse that jockey should be banned for 6 months lol
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer Every racing fan would agree with your criticism of over use of the whip. But it is instructive to note that the people who understand more than you and I will ever know about getting a 550kg ball of bone and muscle around a circuit in 70km/hr - the elite jockeys - are not keen on the restrictions. It a bit like giving a carpenter a rubber coated hammer because you a concerned about damage to the timber. Its a tool of their craft.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
I have seen few horse, in my 50 years of going to the track, breakdown under the application of the whip. You read through stewards reports and they will confirm that most breakdowns occur because of the firmness of the racing surface (on premier tracks), or because the horse has had a history of lameness (usually congenital). That is why so much effort has been invested in improved track technology in OZ (all weather tracks, penetrometer reading to get the right softness etc).
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Oh yeah absolutely agree about the ground as well. Hard ground is lethal to some, I would never run mine on anything firmer then good. However making a horse run on unsuitable ground, and whipping the horse making that horse run flat out on the hard ground could lead to fractures. The types of horseshoes are also a cause of fractures on hard ground. Sinse we switched to shock absorbing horse shoes we havent had one lame horse in 2 years.15 horses, So yep ground defo an issue!
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@MrNativeDancer I appreciate your intelligent responses, ND. I remember when jockey's were permitted to wear spurs. Looking into the birdcage at Rosehill in the mid 60s when the great Des Lake was bringing a mount back, I was horrified to see the injuries he'd inflicted. Des was noted for his physical strength and vigorous application of the whip. He was the kind of rider you would place on a horse inclined to be a bit wayward or lazy. Spur were banned some years later to broad support.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
She has to race against Frankel from the UK she really is a fantastic mare!!!
MrNativeDancer 9 months ago
@MrNativeDancer His connections will never let it happen. She would be too good for him over a the sprint course. They wont let him race SYT over 10f either, following his systematic demolition of their darling stayer, Workforce. They need to win the Eclipse UK Horse of the year. If SYT beats him, they would probably have to endure the prospect of an Aussie horse winning it for the first time. That would be too much for British pride. No, he wont race in the Juddemonte.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Yeah probably right there! Makes a lot of sense what you say.
MrNativeDancer 6 months ago
@SvendBosanvovski Sven you talk like a fool. I didn't see So You Think in the Sussex stakes, all we hear from you is SYT would beat everything from 1 mile to 2 miles, Why didn't he go for the King George (Europe's top summer middle distance race) or the Sussex ( top summer mile race), You got a win in a proper G1 and dont want him to run again, Thats why there is all this talk about running in the cox plate (what ever its called) he struggle to beat Workforce who got hie ar5e kicked.
Spursrule1969 6 months ago
@Spursrule1969 I have never made that claim for SYT. You obviously haven't been paying attention. SYT has beaten your champion, Workforce, fair and square. Workforce is a great horse, have no doubt about that. What he did in the Derby before backing up and winning the Arc is something few have achieved. He may get the double this year. Frankel is not tested beyond a mile. SYT has beaten the best. If F meets him over 10.5f I have no doubt how it will turn out. F connections know it, too.
SvendBosanvovski 6 months ago