@Soundgarden8497 So? This issue is about economy, not culture, and it's just plain common sense to retain some of the profits from our once-only mineral wealth and invest them into something sustainable (like direct electricity production, say), so that we can keep earning money once coal and other minerals no longer provide much of an income. Or, to put it another way: whose example do you want to follow: Norway's or Saudi Arabia's?
PS: At least even the Saudis get to keep the money earned from selling their own resources! We must be the laughing stock of the world in this respect.
@Soundgarden8497 Yes and no: although there is enough brown coal to last a few centuries (ignoring demand growth), most of the economically accessible black coal in Australia might be gone within a decade. Brown coal is of lesser quality and is more polluting than black coal, so it might well in future be subject to restrictions on export and perhaps even domestic use - or at just not be worth digging up, just like many small oil fields today. In any case, we should plan ahead.
@Soundgarden8497 Exactly: Australian coal exports are not going to be huge for more than a decade or two from now (after black coal has reached its peak), so we should start investing in industries that can replace this revenue. One obvious industry which could dwarf coal is electricity: build heaps of windmills and thermal solar arrays and some HVDC cables to Indonesia (and between WA and SA) and let the energy-hungry Asian countries buy cheap Australian electricity.
@sonofnob windmills are the most stupid idea ever. they use more power to build and maintain than they generate. you're welcome to have a massive windmill near your house generating constant low frequency noise, i certainly wont be having any of that bullshit near where i live. they are bushfire hazards and they completely ruin the landscape... they're fucking ugly and you want to put them all over Australia? you're a wanker
@Soundgarden8497 Now you're just ranting for the sake of it. Windmill EROEI is the highest of energy sources, after oil a century ago. I have in fact lived near windmills and they are noiseless (and pretty to me). Bushfire hazard? In the desert?! Uglier than open cut mines? I thought you'd proper arguments, not "wanker". Windmills are the cheapest way for mining companies to refine ore and electrolyse (not ship it to Iceland(!!)) but they are lazy, backwards, stupid bullies.
@sonofnob i think your problem is you're focusing too much on asia... and sending electricity to them is a bit of a pothead's idea, do you know how fucking expensive that would be... not to mention how grossly inefficient. p.s. the longer the cable, the more resistance.
@Soundgarden8497 Well, we live in Asia, and the other Asians are our main customers. Pipelines, equipment, trains, refining, ports, shipping, prospecting, and relocating are all expensive and just plain stupid, compared to building HVDC cables (3% energy loss/1000km) which are cheaper and also permanent infrastructure. Pothead idea? Google Desertec and see what the EU/North Africa are doing. As usual, Australians will lose out, by stubbornly refusing to plan ahead. Knee jerks.
@Soundgarden8497 Oceania/AustralASIA/Asian Pacific... take your pick; it's a definitional thing. I'm not fussed if you don't want to be seen as Asian. However, all our bigger neighbours are certainly Asian, and most of our trade (and half of our sport and much of our culture) is with Asians. Off-topic, just a little? And raise your game: half-baked knee-jerk ignorance spiced with "wanker", "fucked", and "dick" does not impress. Or don't; you're getting boring.
The miners are making $60 Billion over ten years thanks to the watered down version of the MRRT. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's going to ruin them!!!!
@Soundgarden8497 no, however there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the MRRT will destroy the mining industry in this country. There's only been an estimated $173.5 Billion of new investment come into the Resources sector in the last year or so ... they'd make more on Newstart Allowance!
@Soundgarden8497 they're more likely to be on Newstart if Abbott becomes the PM. Abbott believes in the Menzies, protectionist, age of incrementalism, mediocre pre-1980's economy. Unlike the ALP and Malcolm Turnbull, he doesn't believe that the market is the best method of allocating capital.
@richspur2004 Abbott on economic policy is further to the left than the ALP. He's closer to the Nationals and the DLP than the Liberals. Social policy is a different story
Don't ever knock this sort of stuff. This is what keeps the populace dumned down - which is just what the union movement wants. Either way the ball rolls doesn't effect the union bosses, they get rich irregardeless. The cure has become a virulent disease. There is no middle ground, rationality, "Commonwealth" because that is sane. Polarisation is everything. To cap it off, to keep things irrational we have compulsory & preferential voting. We are conned by the left & right. Wake up Australia!
Lets not forget that billionaire miners need enough money to survive too... have a heart... Gold encrusted toilet seats, 500k cars, multi-million dollar mansions and boats, are not cheap to maintain... Its all well and good to say we need a new hospital in order to save thousands of lives, but, must remember, those lives are those of the poor who cannot afford private health insurance... Seriously, be humane and support those most in need, life is tough enough with only a couple billion...
"and we introduce Il Presidente Gillard, of the Republic of RSPTLand......formerly Orstralia.... Please sit next to Mr Mugabe there and compare recipes for disaster"
Labor is fatally tied to the Unions when Mr Howes of the AWU seems to be a Queen maker and no one objects to that unseemly sight - a blight on our democracy
If Julia has a belief in "Ownership and control of production, distribution and exchange," then she has no place in public office. The concept of stealing a nations assets and giving them to the state is just not on.
mines deserve tax, there just crying because they make $100 billion profit instead of $150 billion profit.
when it comes down to it, there are limited resources on the planet so eventually they will come back to mine in the "tax" country. Its a stable country and no security issues, like sth africa and PNG. The mines spend millions investing in security and bribing warlords but cant pay tax that benefits Australians. at the moment only a small % of population make more cash than normal workers
Not surprised to see the IMF come out in support of the tax. And not surprised to hear the IMF say that the miners arguments that the tax would hurt Australia's competitiveness is overstated and the miners claims are a gross distortion of the actual consequences of the tax.
And further that the consensus forecasts is actual evidence that the outlook for business investment has in fact strengthened for Australia since the announcement of the tax.
@leondagreat2 Hoe erroneous of you, the united state has rule to censor the internet including Europe. You just don't hear about it. Germany censors Nazism, America censoring classify document leaks. How disappointing.
Just bring back the 49% Company tax that was gradually reduced over the last decade or so (?) - there were no complaints when the taxes went down. So just bring it back for the big earners! And dont 'overseas companies' not pay tax here but in their country of registration? (used be the case)
@MrsGranpaws you're a communist living in your own very sheltered situation. australia is trying to compete globally if you didn't know, moron. let's introduce a stupid tax for people like you who contribute NOTHING i.e. take away all the pensions.
@Soundgarden8497 You have misunderstood me! I agree with the clip - very well put. However your response should be moderated at offensive. Please be watchful of your language and or character assassination of someone you do not know.
@MrsGranpaws mining is a highly cyclical industry.. what about all the years when these companies records minimal profits, or even a loss. FINALLY their industry is booming, and we're the only gov. that wants to tax them. even the canadians said it was a stupid move that won't be done over there, and its only going to help mining in their country.
Between 2012-16, coal companies operating in Australia will earn $97.1 billion. Even with Rudd's RSPT, the bosses will pocket $82.3b while taxpayers will get $14.8b. Rio Tinto, BHP & Xstrata - you poor bastards....
@juzyification check the history books and see what they were earning before that. mining has been a very cyclical industry, and these profits are not consistant at all. they spend so long earning shit all.. now they are booming and we tax em. are we forgetting that every dollar they spend carries the multiplier effect throughout the australian economy?? reducing mining investment is going to reduce their spending in the economy which has an effect great than where the dollar goes directly.
Norway, a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world, if not, the highest has a similar tax on it's resources..hardly a communist state....if Australia wants to continue down the path of degeneration like the U.S. then the mining fat cats will have their way...the resources belong to us all
Community cabinet meeting in W.A was pre-organised crowd and labor speculated to be paying people to spam forums. how pathetic . Is the hire a crowd here as well roflmao .
So we see yesterday and today the price Rudd pays for the union vote. We saw the rich mine workers demand for billions to be spent in mining towns "SPECIAL DIVIDEND" Rich wealthy town, where in Mackay is there a mine?. No matter they are getting a ring road to buy a vote or two The overpaid mine workers get more than the poor. Their vote has to be bought and costs bilions. If they do not earn too much already they now STEAL tax from the poor for their own greedy selfish needs. GREEDY UNIONS.
KambaraKrest, facts refer to something provable. It's best not to throw the word facts around if you aren't quoting a fact. Other than that your comment made no sense whatsoever so I don't even know how to reply to it. State what you think more clearly so that I know what you are saying. Are you saying that the mining companies get rebates so they can build roads and rail? Guess what, they don't, the government (via taxpayers) do.
@Lingwe2@Lingwe2 Of course mining companies build railways and ports. In the Pilbara BHP, RIO and FMG build there own railways and ports. The taxpayer funds far less infrastructure in mining areas than in other industrial areas. Fuel levy is to pay for road, if you do not get a road why pay the levy? If you genrerate your own power you get a fuel rebate because the governement is not providing this as they do for city based industry. Farmers get the same deal.
@KambaraKrest. these multinational mining companies who rake in 100s of billions each year globally arnt worried about having to take their business offshore... these multinational companies are more concerned with this tax spreading and being adopted by other countries.
With situations like in greece and europe - govts. all over the globe are looking at ways to increase revenue and cut down on govt. debt. This type of mining tax is being watched v closely by govts and the miners know it.
@adouglasc27 I agree. they are concerned that other nations will adopt this tax. Why starts wars you may not win? Just so the big banks get a tax cut? 1/3 will go to tax cuts. 1/3 for government waste and just pennies for redistribtion of wealth to rich mining towns. Exactly how countries like Greece end up in trouble, they have high taxing government so obviously not a cure lol.
@adouglasc27 I have checked, double checked and triple checked. The tax will nto pay off soveriegn debt. that is a good thing as that would be like selling the house to pay off the credit card. About 10% will go to a good home being super, the rest is bloated government spending. Growing government is what led to greece problems, Government do not create wealth, they squander it.
@unionthug94 fat cats and greedy hmmm lets name a few any Wall street Co, any Insurance Co. any Oil Co. they don't even compare. Sorry dude your wrong.facts on MY side.
@samgranleese not on the run policy it wont be set in stone till after the next election. They are doing consultation now. My criticism is they are taking too long. Every mining project that gets shelved between now and next election will be blamed on the new Super profits tax
@ses082 It is on-the-run actually. You are wrong. They didn't consult with the industry prior to announcing the policy.
How can anyone take the consultation process seriously when they are advertising the policy at the same time as 'consulting with industry'?
Should have worked as the Hawke Gov't did on the PRRT in the 80s where they spent months consulting the petroleum industry before announcing their policy. Same as Howard/Cossie in 1999 with the business tax review chaired by John Ralph.
This is terrific - well done the CFMEU. The Mining Tax is going to cost jobs? Is that Australian jobs or the Philippino jobs and perhaps the Chinese guys living in the labour camps being built in the NW of WA. The ones who are shipping all the prefab infrastructure out from China. How is that good for Australia and the people who live here? Clive Palmer et al - PAY YOUR WAY or piss off somewhere else. You'll be back. As Mark Twain said about land - " they aint makin' any more of it!"
"Any introduction of additional taxation runs a substantial risk of shattering industry confidence and drastically delaying exploration activity so that future production will never have any chance of satisfying Australia’s oil requirements. " - ESSO exploration manager, 1984
@monkeytypist We could have explored and been able to look after our own requirements but due to the drastic reduction in exploration after that tax was introduced we now still import most oil we use. So ti did stop epxloration and that tax was the saem as everwhere else but our wages are very high. This tax is higher than anyone elses plus higher wages, onr drop in commodity prices we lose that growth as well. Regional Australia will hurt again.
the mining companies don't care about any of us ... they will cut off their noses just to spite their faces ... but only until their version of capitalism wins, because they can afford it ... socialism is about bringing everybody UP to a reasonable level ...
@dlowe286 --- socialism is about bring everyone DOWN to one level ....with a dictator at the top ...and a handful of derros who wouldnt do a hard days work if they can stand ova someone for the money ....yea we can wave AAAAAAALLLLLLL your site safety ISSUES if you pay us the backhanders !!!
@MrStripyHead Actually, yes, yes you will. You will get a tax cut. Small Businesses get a tax cut, and so consumers get cheaper products and services from local small businesses. This will be paid for by slightly higher taxes on the mostly foreign-owned mining companies that are digging up stuff that belongs to us and which will run out eventually. Opposing the mining tax, unless you are a mining billionaire, is really stupid. You'd have to be a complete stooge to not vote for it.
Ha, ha, interesting to see mining GIANT (wink, wink) Clive Palmer (asanineassassin) and Twiggy Forrest (nonkonnekt) and others here in the comments section having a good old natter with unionists re "All for me, none for you because WE ARE THE BACKBONE OF THIS COUNTRY!" What next? Will the banking guys weigh in, insisting they also have a RIGHT to rip us all off because "WE CREATE JOBS". Wankers.
That's just what we need, misinformation and people with absolutely no economic knowledge telling us that it is GOOD to punish free-enterprise and those willing to outlay the capital and accept the risk to create jobs and turn a profit in the process.
The RSPT should aptly be named "Rudd's Shameless Plunder Tax", or perhaps even the Rape and Pillage Tax.
This is priceless - every time a government (usually Labor) want to introduce something for the greater good, big business oppose it. The biggest problem with the proposal current proposal is that it is very complex and the government isn't doing a great job of explaining it, which is making it very easy for mining companies to run a scare campaign.
@VintageRose99 Rudd wont go into details because they aren't finalised. He wants to negotiate on a lot of specifics which will mean that they could change. Instead, he's talking about the thing he wont negotiate on: tax at 40%.
@AsanineAssassin That is not exactly true - there are plenty of details available - for instance one of the reasons for introducing this reform is to increase superannuation from 9% to 12%. Also, why would the CFMEU produce a video criticising the arguments of the mining companies if it was going to hurt their members that work in mining? Unions fought for all the entitlements you referred to earlier & the business lobby opposed them every step of the way using the same arguments.
@VintageRose99 The CFMEU are all about backing Labor. They'd back Labor all the way into the grave. They don't think for themselves, and they have a history of not thinking for themselves. Paying your respects to the ALP gets you a nice cushy safe seat in the lower house before you retire.
The details are available, I mean that they focus on the issues that are iron clad. This isn't criticism on my part, it makes sense. You don't want to talk about the things you're negotiating on.
@AsanineAssassin Oh how silly of me - of course you are right, the CFMEU and all the other big bad unions have never had an original idea or supported something to benefit workers. I'm also pleased to learn that as a unionist who supports the mining tax I must be in line for a seat in the lower house. I don't know about cushy though, I heard the ones in the Senate are more comfortable and you don't have to deal with pesky constituents all the time. Thanks for enlightening me.
@VintageRose99 You're most welcome sir, You should be aware that your union fees fund Labor party warchests like the pro-tax adds attempting to save Kev's political career, instead of actually defending workers rights like they should.
I mean, where were the union attack ads defending the Liberals' and Greens' full paid parental leave scheme instead of Labors half-baked one? Well that might cost the Unions' leadership some nice seats in parliament.
@VintageRose99 As a unionist that suports WAGES PRESSURE from increased superannuation wherethge lion share of the tax goes to fund lower coirpoaret rates to attract FOREIGN investment.
read Hansard 267th May, Senate Estimates and GET A CLUE before spreading outright lies. You do not have parliamentary privilige do you?
@VintageRose99 WRONG WRONG WRONG. Read Hansard 27th May, Senate Estimates Committee. The increased super will be paid for out of salary and wages expenses. Plus the the tax cut are only for corporation, only 1/3 business and that tax cut is to give incentive for foreign investment. So 2/3rd of business will be under pressure to pay theincreased super and this will lead to LOWER wages. Henry has proof the expense will mean a reduction of future wages.
@KambaraKrest - do you think only 1/3 of businesses are incorporated? you have got to be kidding. the majority of businesses are incorporated - and the majority of the remainder are public servants.
Increasing superannuation puts downward pressure on inflation and interest rates. And at the same time provides real increases in our wealth (upon retirement). Not to mention increasing super will help provide a massive savings base to help fund infrastructure and other investment in our nation
@KambaraKrest - do you think only 1/3 of businesses are incorporated? you have got to be kidding. the majority of businesses are incorporated - and the majority of the remainder are public servants.
Increasing superannuation puts downward pressure on inflation and interest rates. And at the same time provides real increases in our wealth (upon retirement). Not to mention increasing super will help provide a massive savings base to help fund infrastructure and other investment in our nation
@VintageRose99 Just making you fall for the myth it is a scare campaign is what was so easy for Labor. Alreay billions of investment have been taken out of Australia.
The $1 in $7 is not taken from the NBER paper. The figure that came from that paper is 17%. The $1 in $7 was quoted long before that paper was raised.
Part of the tax reform be refunding 100% of the royalties collected by the state government - ergo they are abolishing royalties.
The 43 cents in the dollar figure quoted by mining companies does not take any of the billions of dollars of subsidies and handouts they receive into account. Get your own facts straight first.
@nonkonnekt Those figures are from Ken Henry, the head of the Treasury Department given before a Senate Estimates Committee on the 27th of May 2010. I thought that was quite common knowledge. You can look through the Hansard yourself if you want. It's under the Economics Committee of the Senate. Search for 'unemployment', it's a little over halfway down.
Get your facts straight. Many rebates are because the taxpayer is better off giving a rebate than providing electrcity, roads, rails etc that other business get to be able to operate a business. Same as Indigenous get nothing so cheaper to pay them the dole and let them die young instead of building them what we take for granted like power, trains, highways etc. Would you pay a fuel levy to build roads but then have to pay to build the road yourself?
@AsanineAssassin Way to misinterpret. This is popping the balloon of mining executives who have an amazing tendency to yell at the top of their lungs that every improvement ever suggested that will affect them will lead to the End Of Australia As We Know It.
I'm not misinterpreting at all. They compare women's pay, the eight hour work day and superannuation to yet another new tax grab by this motley crew of ours in government.
@monkeytypist Noo, it's the CFMEU, Labor's personal army making the comparison. The mining companies aren't bringing up straw men at all. They are only talking about the tax.
@AsanineAssassin the point of the ad is that whenever there is something that will cost the mining industry more money, they run around saying that they'll go bust. The point is that they have been wrong every time they've said it. Of course they don't want to pay more tax. The difference is whether the claim is that the tax will shut the mining industry down is any different to all of the previous false claims.
@monkeytypist I don't remember any mining company saying they'll shut the industry down because of the tax. The point is that it will reduce reinvestment and expansion of the industry. Frankly, I don't care about the mining sectors' major players, I care about my countries growth. Since the 2002 Mining boom started, Australia's GDP has more than tripled. The only reason for the tax is to change the election from the ETS, Insulation, and the myriad of Rudd fails.
@AsanineAssassin clive palmer said he was going to shut down mines because of it and a day later he said he might have "over exaggerated" and that no mine shut downs are in the forseeable future ... i never knew such a fattie could do a backflip
@TheKennyKiller Yeah and Kevin Rudd said he was going to bring us an ETS and that climate change was the greatest moral challenge of our time and then days later he decided it could wait several years. I wonder if he 'over exaggerated' ..?
@AsanineAssassin and of course, Tony Abbott & the Coalition blocking the ETS & everything else he can in the Senate just for the sake of blocking it, has nothing to do with it.
@powertools1 Well if Kev had the backbone to call the double dissolution he'd have won the day at 60-40 and could have limited the Coalition to as few as 30 seats at the time. Another example of Rudd Labor Failure. Both parties need to do some soul searching.
@TheKennyKiller the mining companies are bullshitting when they say that mines will be closing down massively. the less profitable ones are the only ones that probably will. the main negative about this tax will be the way it will hurt investments, as it reduces people's incentive to invest in mining. after all - what kind of an idiot defines 6% as a superprofit? if you're going to tax it that highly people will make more money in the stock market
@AussiePolitics i agree, major operations will obviously stay open. but yes, there may be some that close that were not terribly profitable, but most of all it will reduce incentive to invest in mining which will be terrible for our growth over the next few decades.
@sooot175 one of the most incredibly stupid feature of the tax is the 40% rebate for companies that are making a loss. This is absurd - we're penalising successful companies that are providing jobs, stimulating our economy, growing and paying tax, and giving money to companies that are doing the opposite!
@AussiePolitics yeah interesting point although I agree with a mining tax in general. I remember a few years ago when the drought was worse and the ABC was reporting on a meeting out in western Queensland, they asked farmers about drought assistance, exceptional circumstances etc. I thought it would be all positive but a few farmers spoke of frustration that it was keeping the poorly run farms going while those with better strategies who stayed viable got nothing.
@sooot175 - I disagree. 1. This is a tax on profit plus there is a threshold. So how can it put a mining operation out of business? If the owners are geared to the gunwales they might fail - true - but that's their fault and the profitable mine will chug along with new owners. And reduce investment? This tax would actually make investing in mining a safer bet! The top end of profits would be reduced but the risks of exploration and the start up phase are significantly reduced.
@hogey74 that's a good analogy. another thing to consider is that by the time we've had all the back and forth of money getting paid to the states, federal government, then getting paid back from the fed to the states we've probably lost a fair chunk of money just from the admin side. I don't object to mining companies paying a fair amount, but constitutionally, that's between them and the states who are supposed to provide the services. the fed gov just adds a new layer of beurocracy
@jncyjduivjiko so what? The executives get their bonuses and their shares from companies. If they just were honest and said "it'll reduce the size of our dividends and bonuses", I'd be more receptive.
@monkeytypist it will also reduce investment in Australia and in the company. the share prices fall. The Major holder of Australian Mining shares as a whole is Australian Superannuation. We all loose! (All of us with jobs anyway)
@jncyjduivjiko says you. The minerals are still in the ground, and China is still building billions of fridges and washing machines. I'd believe "we'll all be ruined" if, as the ad says, I hadn't heard it so many times before.
@jncyjduivjiko even if investment in Australia falls (which it won't, as the video says, we've heard it all before), share prices won't fall for long because the mining companies would move out of allegedly less profitable projects into other more profitable activities elsewhere, putting their share prices back up again. Recently ALL share prices have fallen with the mining share prices falling less than other industries.
True, but think of it this way. If you were a greedy bastard getting billions a year; then had 40% of your profits taken away, would you just accept that or raise the cost of the product you sell? That's my only issue with it. Oh, and also if the money made will actually get back to the Australian people, but you know, same old, same old.
ten years ago we (the australian tax payer) got $1 in $3 from the miners now we get $1 in $7 they can afford it. And where are most of the mining coorporations ?? off shore !
Do you believe everything Rudd tells you? The $1 in $7 figure is taken from an American POSTGRADUATE paper comparing tax paid by Mining companys the world over and doesn't include royalties paid by mining companys to the state government. Further more the ATO (that's the AUSTRALIAN TAX OFFICE) Figures show that last year Mining in australia paid 43cents on the dollar (thats $1 in every $2.32) and over the last 5 years an average of 42 cents on the dollar. BEFORE ROYALTIES WERE PAID.
They certainly have enough money to pay for it, but they're already paying the industry standard for taxes aren't they? Why doesn't the government focus their resources on carbon regulation rather than business regulation?
@jncyjduivjiko the 101 workers or less and no unfair dismissal would have. but sorry, just a joke. please continue your productive mining tax youtube debate.
@FlashMeterRed sorry i thought you were talking about companys with 1000's of people my bad! wasnt sure if it was a joke or not, sometimes hard to tell on the internet!
@jncyjduivjik We are talking mining companies here, nothing to do with big business. The tax actually helps companies in another sectors. Decreased company tax.
@SmashShmay yeah but why are we targeting the only sector thats kept australia running during the GFC? decreased company tax is good, if it is even across the board then i say that's fair.
@jncyjduivjiko No, they aren't screwing the state government out of royalties, they are refunding the royalties and in doing so removing an inefficiency in the market. That's what I meant by 'abolishing'. As for your comment about how it was the only sector that 'kept australia running'...you do know that mining companies shed 15% of their workforce and if all sectors of the economy performed as poorly as they did then we would be facing unemployment of almost 20%. Again, facts.
@jncyjduivjiko The expected ongoing growth of China and the subsequent demand which has and will cause further growth in the mining sector. The mining tax allows the profits derived from the nations resources to be used by the government to invest in infrastructure and jobs. If another GFC occurs, the mining tax will allow more efficient spread of growth.
You are assuming that demand from China for our resources will not stop. Have you not heard of the product or economic life cycle? Our resources boom is probably in it's maturity phase. Such resources are finite, the demand for them is not necessarily infinite.
Furthermore, there is no consistent evidence that stimulus spending actually prevents recession, but rather prolongs it. How can you get out of a debt-caused crisis by spending yourself further into debt?
Let's take money off a profitable company and give it to a company which is incapable of operating at a profit. Can you actually step back and think about what you are saying?
@nonkonnekt A debt caused crises yes, private debt. Government debt is a whole different thing. It is economic 101, when the private sector is in decline, it is the governments duty is to spend and support the economy until the private sector recovers. We are not giving money to unprofitable companies, the decrease is company tax is across the board.
@SmashShmay I don't think they cover the effects of stimulus in first year economics, but in any case, it's not. It's Keynesian Economics. And the fact is, stimulus has NOT been proven to work. Governments merely want to be SEEN to be doing SOMETHING. Private sector is suffering because coercive (public) sector steals (taxes) all of their money from them and are completely unproductive by their own right. Decrease in company tax is NOT across the board, it is UP for mining companies.
@SmashShmay And again, you say government debt is different to private debt. Well, no, government debt is still money that will have to be repayed, this time by citizens through higher taxes (and less services) or through the dilution of their wealth when the central banks print more money (inflation). At the end of 2008, it was private debt in the sub-prime crisis. Now, it's public (government) debt, look at Greece. Hungary is now facing the same problem. Next the UK, Portugal, and Italy.
@SmashShmay 'overflowing coffers' 'wealth for billionaires only'... Ughk, bin your old school socialist rhetoric before I throw up, please. It creates wealth for hundreds of thousands of employees (thousands of whom will get sacked if this tax is passed - don't deny this, look at Xstrata) and shareholders (but some of these are overseas). You're such an idiot. If there was no rich class would be happy - You don't care if people are or not poor, you just don't like people who are wealthier than..
this video is so ignorant it's shameful.
Soundgarden8497 1 month ago
Politics seem to be a constant comedy goldmine.
HarunDanyal 4 months ago
USER(S): MANICTIMES ARE A BUNCH OF CULTURAL MARXISTS. READ UP WHAT IT MEANS, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE ALL ABOUT.
Soundgarden8497 4 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 So? This issue is about economy, not culture, and it's just plain common sense to retain some of the profits from our once-only mineral wealth and invest them into something sustainable (like direct electricity production, say), so that we can keep earning money once coal and other minerals no longer provide much of an income. Or, to put it another way: whose example do you want to follow: Norway's or Saudi Arabia's?
sonofnob 2 months ago
PS: At least even the Saudis get to keep the money earned from selling their own resources! We must be the laughing stock of the world in this respect.
sonofnob 2 months ago
@sonofnob when do you think were going to run out of coal? we've got enough coal to last hundreds of fucking years.
Soundgarden8497 2 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 Yes and no: although there is enough brown coal to last a few centuries (ignoring demand growth), most of the economically accessible black coal in Australia might be gone within a decade. Brown coal is of lesser quality and is more polluting than black coal, so it might well in future be subject to restrictions on export and perhaps even domestic use - or at just not be worth digging up, just like many small oil fields today. In any case, we should plan ahead.
sonofnob 2 months ago
@sonofnob we should be concentrating on now rather than centuries ahead
Soundgarden8497 2 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 Exactly: Australian coal exports are not going to be huge for more than a decade or two from now (after black coal has reached its peak), so we should start investing in industries that can replace this revenue. One obvious industry which could dwarf coal is electricity: build heaps of windmills and thermal solar arrays and some HVDC cables to Indonesia (and between WA and SA) and let the energy-hungry Asian countries buy cheap Australian electricity.
sonofnob 2 months ago
Comment removed
Soundgarden8497 2 months ago
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@sonofnob windmills are the most stupid idea ever. they use more power to build and maintain than they generate. you're welcome to have a massive windmill near your house generating constant low frequency noise, i certainly wont be having any of that bullshit near where i live. they are bushfire hazards and they completely ruin the landscape... they're fucking ugly and you want to put them all over Australia? you're a wanker
Soundgarden8497 2 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 Now you're just ranting for the sake of it. Windmill EROEI is the highest of energy sources, after oil a century ago. I have in fact lived near windmills and they are noiseless (and pretty to me). Bushfire hazard? In the desert?! Uglier than open cut mines? I thought you'd proper arguments, not "wanker". Windmills are the cheapest way for mining companies to refine ore and electrolyse (not ship it to Iceland(!!)) but they are lazy, backwards, stupid bullies.
sonofnob 2 months ago
@sonofnob i think your problem is you're focusing too much on asia... and sending electricity to them is a bit of a pothead's idea, do you know how fucking expensive that would be... not to mention how grossly inefficient. p.s. the longer the cable, the more resistance.
Soundgarden8497 2 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 Well, we live in Asia, and the other Asians are our main customers. Pipelines, equipment, trains, refining, ports, shipping, prospecting, and relocating are all expensive and just plain stupid, compared to building HVDC cables (3% energy loss/1000km) which are cheaper and also permanent infrastructure. Pothead idea? Google Desertec and see what the EU/North Africa are doing. As usual, Australians will lose out, by stubbornly refusing to plan ahead. Knee jerks.
sonofnob 2 months ago
@sonofnob we live in asia? are you fucked? Australia is not asia. if you want to be a dick... it's oceania.
Soundgarden8497 2 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 Oceania/AustralASIA/Asian Pacific... take your pick; it's a definitional thing. I'm not fussed if you don't want to be seen as Asian. However, all our bigger neighbours are certainly Asian, and most of our trade (and half of our sport and much of our culture) is with Asians. Off-topic, just a little? And raise your game: half-baked knee-jerk ignorance spiced with "wanker", "fucked", and "dick" does not impress. Or don't; you're getting boring.
sonofnob 2 months ago
@sonofnob you weren't interesting to begin with
Soundgarden8497 2 months ago
who made this video? AMEC? MCA? or BHP?
williamanggala 10 months ago
correction to the last comment: the mining companies and shareholders
richspur2004 1 year ago
The miners are making $60 Billion over ten years thanks to the watered down version of the MRRT. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's going to ruin them!!!!
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 are you the chief economist for the mining sector?
Soundgarden8497 4 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 no, however there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the MRRT will destroy the mining industry in this country. There's only been an estimated $173.5 Billion of new investment come into the Resources sector in the last year or so ... they'd make more on Newstart Allowance!
richspur2004 4 months ago
@richspur2004 eventually they will make more on newstart if labor stay in power for another 10 years
Soundgarden8497 4 months ago
@Soundgarden8497 they're more likely to be on Newstart if Abbott becomes the PM. Abbott believes in the Menzies, protectionist, age of incrementalism, mediocre pre-1980's economy. Unlike the ALP and Malcolm Turnbull, he doesn't believe that the market is the best method of allocating capital.
richspur2004 4 months ago
@richspur2004 yeah whatever you reckon lefty, anything would be better than what labor's doing now.
Soundgarden8497 4 months ago
@richspur2004 Abbott on economic policy is further to the left than the ALP. He's closer to the Nationals and the DLP than the Liberals. Social policy is a different story
richspur2004 4 months ago
Don't ever knock this sort of stuff. This is what keeps the populace dumned down - which is just what the union movement wants. Either way the ball rolls doesn't effect the union bosses, they get rich irregardeless. The cure has become a virulent disease. There is no middle ground, rationality, "Commonwealth" because that is sane. Polarisation is everything. To cap it off, to keep things irrational we have compulsory & preferential voting. We are conned by the left & right. Wake up Australia!
verziehen 1 year ago
Lets not forget that billionaire miners need enough money to survive too... have a heart... Gold encrusted toilet seats, 500k cars, multi-million dollar mansions and boats, are not cheap to maintain... Its all well and good to say we need a new hospital in order to save thousands of lives, but, must remember, those lives are those of the poor who cannot afford private health insurance... Seriously, be humane and support those most in need, life is tough enough with only a couple billion...
OCJaustralia 1 year ago
@OCJaustralia sence when to miners earn billions
drcooljk 1 year ago
United Nations, 2011 :
"and we introduce Il Presidente Gillard, of the Republic of RSPTLand......formerly Orstralia.... Please sit next to Mr Mugabe there and compare recipes for disaster"
nibblez1222 1 year ago
Labor is fatally tied to the Unions when Mr Howes of the AWU seems to be a Queen maker and no one objects to that unseemly sight - a blight on our democracy
nibblez1222 1 year ago
If Julia has a belief in "Ownership and control of production, distribution and exchange," then she has no place in public office. The concept of stealing a nations assets and giving them to the state is just not on.
nibblez1222 1 year ago
Too bloody clver...
SapperK9 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
mines deserve tax, there just crying because they make $100 billion profit instead of $150 billion profit.
when it comes down to it, there are limited resources on the planet so eventually they will come back to mine in the "tax" country. Its a stable country and no security issues, like sth africa and PNG. The mines spend millions investing in security and bribing warlords but cant pay tax that benefits Australians. at the moment only a small % of population make more cash than normal workers
TellinTheTruth 1 year ago
Not surprised to see the IMF come out in support of the tax. And not surprised to hear the IMF say that the miners arguments that the tax would hurt Australia's competitiveness is overstated and the miners claims are a gross distortion of the actual consequences of the tax.
And further that the consensus forecasts is actual evidence that the outlook for business investment has in fact strengthened for Australia since the announcement of the tax.
adouglasc27 1 year ago 3
If i were all of you, i'd be more worried about Rudds censorship of the internet. No other 1st world has ever done it.
leondagreat2 1 year ago
@leondagreat2 well you know your PM is shit when you are trying to decide which one of his plethora of fuck-ups you wish to care about more.
sooot175 1 year ago
@leondagreat2 Hoe erroneous of you, the united state has rule to censor the internet including Europe. You just don't hear about it. Germany censors Nazism, America censoring classify document leaks. How disappointing.
InitialDjay2 1 year ago
Just bring back the 49% Company tax that was gradually reduced over the last decade or so (?) - there were no complaints when the taxes went down. So just bring it back for the big earners! And dont 'overseas companies' not pay tax here but in their country of registration? (used be the case)
MrsGranpaws 1 year ago
@MrsGranpaws you're a communist living in your own very sheltered situation. australia is trying to compete globally if you didn't know, moron. let's introduce a stupid tax for people like you who contribute NOTHING i.e. take away all the pensions.
Soundgarden8497 1 year ago
@Soundgarden8497 You have misunderstood me! I agree with the clip - very well put. However your response should be moderated at offensive. Please be watchful of your language and or character assassination of someone you do not know.
MrsGranpaws 1 year ago
@MrsGranpaws welcome to the internet granny paws.
Soundgarden8497 1 year ago
@MrsGranpaws mining is a highly cyclical industry.. what about all the years when these companies records minimal profits, or even a loss. FINALLY their industry is booming, and we're the only gov. that wants to tax them. even the canadians said it was a stupid move that won't be done over there, and its only going to help mining in their country.
sooot175 1 year ago
hahahaaa... xDD
sEVEnOFNine2348 1 year ago
They need to put this up on the air, this is brilliant.
CombustionMan1 1 year ago 2
Between 2012-16, coal companies operating in Australia will earn $97.1 billion. Even with Rudd's RSPT, the bosses will pocket $82.3b while taxpayers will get $14.8b. Rio Tinto, BHP & Xstrata - you poor bastards....
juzyification 1 year ago 2
@juzyification check the history books and see what they were earning before that. mining has been a very cyclical industry, and these profits are not consistant at all. they spend so long earning shit all.. now they are booming and we tax em. are we forgetting that every dollar they spend carries the multiplier effect throughout the australian economy?? reducing mining investment is going to reduce their spending in the economy which has an effect great than where the dollar goes directly.
sooot175 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
because of rudd...
-we now pay a lot more tax.
-australia has become a state of china.
-immigrants get free housing whilst regular australian born aussies struggle with living expenses
-investors are turning away from australia, and even more businesses are fleeing to overseas
-being a member of parliament has become something to be ashamed of
-this country is the laughing stock of the world
-even more people are brainwashed with leftist idealism garbage.
-australia has failed.
Soundgarden8497 1 year ago
@Soundgarden8497
see my answer above! How do you forget that big tax cuts were made, not so long ago?
MrsGranpaws 1 year ago
Norway, a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world, if not, the highest has a similar tax on it's resources..hardly a communist state....if Australia wants to continue down the path of degeneration like the U.S. then the mining fat cats will have their way...the resources belong to us all
terrythekittie 1 year ago 14
Brilliant - so true!
badnewswade 1 year ago 2
Go to mining- tax .com.au and there is all the FACTS you need and more. And not run by miners or Labor , no spin just facts.
MyBarry2009 1 year ago
Community cabinet meeting in W.A was pre-organised crowd and labor speculated to be paying people to spam forums. how pathetic . Is the hire a crowd here as well roflmao .
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
So we see yesterday and today the price Rudd pays for the union vote. We saw the rich mine workers demand for billions to be spent in mining towns "SPECIAL DIVIDEND" Rich wealthy town, where in Mackay is there a mine?. No matter they are getting a ring road to buy a vote or two The overpaid mine workers get more than the poor. Their vote has to be bought and costs bilions. If they do not earn too much already they now STEAL tax from the poor for their own greedy selfish needs. GREEDY UNIONS.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
If only the Government could communicate like this! Hilarious!
lfty1917 1 year ago 2
KambaraKrest, facts refer to something provable. It's best not to throw the word facts around if you aren't quoting a fact. Other than that your comment made no sense whatsoever so I don't even know how to reply to it. State what you think more clearly so that I know what you are saying. Are you saying that the mining companies get rebates so they can build roads and rail? Guess what, they don't, the government (via taxpayers) do.
Lingwe2 1 year ago
@Lingwe2 @Lingwe2 Of course mining companies build railways and ports. In the Pilbara BHP, RIO and FMG build there own railways and ports. The taxpayer funds far less infrastructure in mining areas than in other industrial areas. Fuel levy is to pay for road, if you do not get a road why pay the levy? If you genrerate your own power you get a fuel rebate because the governement is not providing this as they do for city based industry. Farmers get the same deal.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
The GFC did not ruin the US either but they could have done without it.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
@KambaraKrest. these multinational mining companies who rake in 100s of billions each year globally arnt worried about having to take their business offshore... these multinational companies are more concerned with this tax spreading and being adopted by other countries.
With situations like in greece and europe - govts. all over the globe are looking at ways to increase revenue and cut down on govt. debt. This type of mining tax is being watched v closely by govts and the miners know it.
adouglasc27 1 year ago 2
@adouglasc27 I agree. they are concerned that other nations will adopt this tax. Why starts wars you may not win? Just so the big banks get a tax cut? 1/3 will go to tax cuts. 1/3 for government waste and just pennies for redistribtion of wealth to rich mining towns. Exactly how countries like Greece end up in trouble, they have high taxing government so obviously not a cure lol.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
@adouglasc27 I have checked, double checked and triple checked. The tax will nto pay off soveriegn debt. that is a good thing as that would be like selling the house to pay off the credit card. About 10% will go to a good home being super, the rest is bloated government spending. Growing government is what led to greece problems, Government do not create wealth, they squander it.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
oh very good! very clever :)
timmyowens 1 year ago 2
What's with the guy wearing the foil?
evilfuzzydoom 1 year ago
I think we need a windfall-profits tax on most of the fat-cat, greedy, leftist unions.
unionthug94 1 year ago
@unionthug94 fat cats and greedy hmmm lets name a few any Wall street Co, any Insurance Co. any Oil Co. they don't even compare. Sorry dude your wrong.facts on MY side.
Madashellvoter 1 year ago
There going to ruin us! Ha Ha, that's laughable.
Walmart whose unionized everywhere in the world (except of course in America) is one of the most profitable companies in the world.
Madashellvoter 1 year ago
@Madashellvoter er no, Walmart is one of the most anti-union companies anywhere.
monkeytypist 1 year ago
THE TORIES NEVER CHANGE
iPsychoFurry 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Resource rent tax = good.
BUT Kevin Rudd & Wayne Swan's policy = on-the-run terd of a policy.
What a waste of money making an ad for a typical short-sighted oversimplification of a complex issue by numb skulled unionists.
Question: why has Charles Firth sold out and making this rubbish?
Chaser guys not returning his calls?
samgranleese 1 year ago
Resource rent tax = good.
BUT Kevin Rudd & Wayne Swan's policy = on-the-run terd of a policy.
What a waste of money making an ad for a typical short-sighted oversimplification of a complex issue by numb skulled unionists.
Question: why has Charles Firth sold out and making this rubbish?
Chaser guys not returning his calls?
samgranleese 1 year ago
@samgranleese not on the run policy it wont be set in stone till after the next election. They are doing consultation now. My criticism is they are taking too long. Every mining project that gets shelved between now and next election will be blamed on the new Super profits tax
ses082 1 year ago
@ses082 It is on-the-run actually. You are wrong. They didn't consult with the industry prior to announcing the policy.
How can anyone take the consultation process seriously when they are advertising the policy at the same time as 'consulting with industry'?
Should have worked as the Hawke Gov't did on the PRRT in the 80s where they spent months consulting the petroleum industry before announcing their policy. Same as Howard/Cossie in 1999 with the business tax review chaired by John Ralph.
samgranleese 1 year ago
Great vid, keep em coming... they're great for steward's classes.
archestratus 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Terrific Video WELL DONE !!!
frankarac 1 year ago
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frankarac 1 year ago
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frankarac 1 year ago
great video, well done CFMEU!
annamack1 1 year ago
This is terrific - well done the CFMEU. The Mining Tax is going to cost jobs? Is that Australian jobs or the Philippino jobs and perhaps the Chinese guys living in the labour camps being built in the NW of WA. The ones who are shipping all the prefab infrastructure out from China. How is that good for Australia and the people who live here? Clive Palmer et al - PAY YOUR WAY or piss off somewhere else. You'll be back. As Mark Twain said about land - " they aint makin' any more of it!"
Larrikins54 1 year ago
Yeah, I love the toga dude @ 0:45 secs. Good reminder that rich slugs have been whining about paying their way since the dawn of civilization
scart69net 1 year ago
@scart69net join the communist alliance.
SaladNinja3569 1 year ago
@0:45 there's a guy in a toga - LMFAO!
fredlockful 1 year ago
as Howard said-'the wealth trickles down" i always though only sewage trickles down the the bottom of the heap!
anthonyhenrysmith 1 year ago
love it
doorbiitch 1 year ago
"Any introduction of additional taxation runs a substantial risk of shattering industry confidence and drastically delaying exploration activity so that future production will never have any chance of satisfying Australia’s oil requirements. " - ESSO exploration manager, 1984
monkeytypist 1 year ago
@monkeytypist We could have explored and been able to look after our own requirements but due to the drastic reduction in exploration after that tax was introduced we now still import most oil we use. So ti did stop epxloration and that tax was the saem as everwhere else but our wages are very high. This tax is higher than anyone elses plus higher wages, onr drop in commodity prices we lose that growth as well. Regional Australia will hurt again.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
the mining companies don't care about any of us ... they will cut off their noses just to spite their faces ... but only until their version of capitalism wins, because they can afford it ... socialism is about bringing everybody UP to a reasonable level ...
dlowe286 1 year ago
@dlowe286 --- socialism is about bring everyone DOWN to one level ....with a dictator at the top ...and a handful of derros who wouldnt do a hard days work if they can stand ova someone for the money ....yea we can wave AAAAAAALLLLLLL your site safety ISSUES if you pay us the backhanders !!!
immortalwillie 1 year ago
am l going to pay less tax now? NO! Fuck you Rudd!
MrStripyHead 1 year ago
@MrStripyHead Actually, yes, yes you will. You will get a tax cut. Small Businesses get a tax cut, and so consumers get cheaper products and services from local small businesses. This will be paid for by slightly higher taxes on the mostly foreign-owned mining companies that are digging up stuff that belongs to us and which will run out eventually. Opposing the mining tax, unless you are a mining billionaire, is really stupid. You'd have to be a complete stooge to not vote for it.
LukeWhito 1 year ago
Ha, ha, interesting to see mining GIANT (wink, wink) Clive Palmer (asanineassassin) and Twiggy Forrest (nonkonnekt) and others here in the comments section having a good old natter with unionists re "All for me, none for you because WE ARE THE BACKBONE OF THIS COUNTRY!" What next? Will the banking guys weigh in, insisting they also have a RIGHT to rip us all off because "WE CREATE JOBS". Wankers.
pattipatpat 1 year ago 20
@pattipatpat
That's a great idea ... why don't we hit the banking and finance industry with an interest-repayment super-profits tax?
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
Great video! LabourStart sent me.
JimmieHiggins 1 year ago 2
That's just what we need, misinformation and people with absolutely no economic knowledge telling us that it is GOOD to punish free-enterprise and those willing to outlay the capital and accept the risk to create jobs and turn a profit in the process.
The RSPT should aptly be named "Rudd's Shameless Plunder Tax", or perhaps even the Rape and Pillage Tax.
Who said communism was dead?
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
Typical Labor Party
The Liberals get you to dig a hole first then shoot you in the back of the head
Labor shoot you through the head then ponder if you should of dug the hole first
The "SuperProfits" tax ads should of been before the announcement
The horse has bolted on this one
petzlxx 1 year ago
This is priceless - every time a government (usually Labor) want to introduce something for the greater good, big business oppose it. The biggest problem with the proposal current proposal is that it is very complex and the government isn't doing a great job of explaining it, which is making it very easy for mining companies to run a scare campaign.
VintageRose99 1 year ago
@VintageRose99 Rudd wont go into details because they aren't finalised. He wants to negotiate on a lot of specifics which will mean that they could change. Instead, he's talking about the thing he wont negotiate on: tax at 40%.
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@AsanineAssassin That is not exactly true - there are plenty of details available - for instance one of the reasons for introducing this reform is to increase superannuation from 9% to 12%. Also, why would the CFMEU produce a video criticising the arguments of the mining companies if it was going to hurt their members that work in mining? Unions fought for all the entitlements you referred to earlier & the business lobby opposed them every step of the way using the same arguments.
VintageRose99 1 year ago
@VintageRose99 The CFMEU are all about backing Labor. They'd back Labor all the way into the grave. They don't think for themselves, and they have a history of not thinking for themselves. Paying your respects to the ALP gets you a nice cushy safe seat in the lower house before you retire.
The details are available, I mean that they focus on the issues that are iron clad. This isn't criticism on my part, it makes sense. You don't want to talk about the things you're negotiating on.
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@AsanineAssassin Oh how silly of me - of course you are right, the CFMEU and all the other big bad unions have never had an original idea or supported something to benefit workers. I'm also pleased to learn that as a unionist who supports the mining tax I must be in line for a seat in the lower house. I don't know about cushy though, I heard the ones in the Senate are more comfortable and you don't have to deal with pesky constituents all the time. Thanks for enlightening me.
VintageRose99 1 year ago 2
@VintageRose99 You're most welcome sir, You should be aware that your union fees fund Labor party warchests like the pro-tax adds attempting to save Kev's political career, instead of actually defending workers rights like they should.
I mean, where were the union attack ads defending the Liberals' and Greens' full paid parental leave scheme instead of Labors half-baked one? Well that might cost the Unions' leadership some nice seats in parliament.
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@VintageRose99 As a unionist that suports WAGES PRESSURE from increased superannuation wherethge lion share of the tax goes to fund lower coirpoaret rates to attract FOREIGN investment.
read Hansard 267th May, Senate Estimates and GET A CLUE before spreading outright lies. You do not have parliamentary privilige do you?
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
@VintageRose99 WRONG WRONG WRONG. Read Hansard 27th May, Senate Estimates Committee. The increased super will be paid for out of salary and wages expenses. Plus the the tax cut are only for corporation, only 1/3 business and that tax cut is to give incentive for foreign investment. So 2/3rd of business will be under pressure to pay theincreased super and this will lead to LOWER wages. Henry has proof the expense will mean a reduction of future wages.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
@KambaraKrest - do you think only 1/3 of businesses are incorporated? you have got to be kidding. the majority of businesses are incorporated - and the majority of the remainder are public servants.
Increasing superannuation puts downward pressure on inflation and interest rates. And at the same time provides real increases in our wealth (upon retirement). Not to mention increasing super will help provide a massive savings base to help fund infrastructure and other investment in our nation
adouglasc27 1 year ago 2
@KambaraKrest - do you think only 1/3 of businesses are incorporated? you have got to be kidding. the majority of businesses are incorporated - and the majority of the remainder are public servants.
Increasing superannuation puts downward pressure on inflation and interest rates. And at the same time provides real increases in our wealth (upon retirement). Not to mention increasing super will help provide a massive savings base to help fund infrastructure and other investment in our nation
adouglasc27 1 year ago 2
@VintageRose99 Just making you fall for the myth it is a scare campaign is what was so easy for Labor. Alreay billions of investment have been taken out of Australia.
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
Too funny & so true. The thing that will literally ruin us are greedy corporations like the mining industry.
dbvalentine 1 year ago 20
@jncyduivjiko
The $1 in $7 is not taken from the NBER paper. The figure that came from that paper is 17%. The $1 in $7 was quoted long before that paper was raised.
Part of the tax reform be refunding 100% of the royalties collected by the state government - ergo they are abolishing royalties.
The 43 cents in the dollar figure quoted by mining companies does not take any of the billions of dollars of subsidies and handouts they receive into account. Get your own facts straight first.
Lingwe2 1 year ago
@Lingwe2
so the federal government is screwing the state government out of its royalties?
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@Lingwe2 Can you please reference your comments as to where you got these figures?
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
@nonkonnekt Those figures are from Ken Henry, the head of the Treasury Department given before a Senate Estimates Committee on the 27th of May 2010. I thought that was quite common knowledge. You can look through the Hansard yourself if you want. It's under the Economics Committee of the Senate. Search for 'unemployment', it's a little over halfway down.
Lingwe2 1 year ago
@Lingwe2
Get your facts straight. Many rebates are because the taxpayer is better off giving a rebate than providing electrcity, roads, rails etc that other business get to be able to operate a business. Same as Indigenous get nothing so cheaper to pay them the dole and let them die young instead of building them what we take for granted like power, trains, highways etc. Would you pay a fuel levy to build roads but then have to pay to build the road yourself?
KambaraKrest 1 year ago
Or the Chinese mining firms will sell the goal back to China at Cost Price
mikek3332002 1 year ago
What a hot steaming load! Not funny either!
bsure2c 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
HAHA! You heard it here first folks, the mining tax is as important and necessary AS WOMENS RIGHTS! DENYING THE TAX DENIES WOMEN!
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@AsanineAssassin Way to misinterpret. This is popping the balloon of mining executives who have an amazing tendency to yell at the top of their lungs that every improvement ever suggested that will affect them will lead to the End Of Australia As We Know It.
monkeytypist 1 year ago
I'm not misinterpreting at all. They compare women's pay, the eight hour work day and superannuation to yet another new tax grab by this motley crew of ours in government.
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@AsanineAssassin it's the mining companies who are doing the comparison! That's the point!
monkeytypist 1 year ago
@monkeytypist Noo, it's the CFMEU, Labor's personal army making the comparison. The mining companies aren't bringing up straw men at all. They are only talking about the tax.
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@AsanineAssassin the point of the ad is that whenever there is something that will cost the mining industry more money, they run around saying that they'll go bust. The point is that they have been wrong every time they've said it. Of course they don't want to pay more tax. The difference is whether the claim is that the tax will shut the mining industry down is any different to all of the previous false claims.
monkeytypist 1 year ago 2
@monkeytypist I don't remember any mining company saying they'll shut the industry down because of the tax. The point is that it will reduce reinvestment and expansion of the industry. Frankly, I don't care about the mining sectors' major players, I care about my countries growth. Since the 2002 Mining boom started, Australia's GDP has more than tripled. The only reason for the tax is to change the election from the ETS, Insulation, and the myriad of Rudd fails.
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@AsanineAssassin clive palmer said he was going to shut down mines because of it and a day later he said he might have "over exaggerated" and that no mine shut downs are in the forseeable future ... i never knew such a fattie could do a backflip
TheKennyKiller 1 year ago 37
@TheKennyKiller Yeah and Kevin Rudd said he was going to bring us an ETS and that climate change was the greatest moral challenge of our time and then days later he decided it could wait several years. I wonder if he 'over exaggerated' ..?
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@AsanineAssassin and of course, Tony Abbott & the Coalition blocking the ETS & everything else he can in the Senate just for the sake of blocking it, has nothing to do with it.
powertools1 1 year ago 2
@powertools1 Well if Kev had the backbone to call the double dissolution he'd have won the day at 60-40 and could have limited the Coalition to as few as 30 seats at the time. Another example of Rudd Labor Failure. Both parties need to do some soul searching.
AsanineAssassin 1 year ago
@TheKennyKiller He has all the hallmarks of a Coalition leader
ItchyMrBoy 1 year ago
@TheKennyKiller the mining companies are bullshitting when they say that mines will be closing down massively. the less profitable ones are the only ones that probably will. the main negative about this tax will be the way it will hurt investments, as it reduces people's incentive to invest in mining. after all - what kind of an idiot defines 6% as a superprofit? if you're going to tax it that highly people will make more money in the stock market
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics i agree, major operations will obviously stay open. but yes, there may be some that close that were not terribly profitable, but most of all it will reduce incentive to invest in mining which will be terrible for our growth over the next few decades.
sooot175 1 year ago
@sooot175 one of the most incredibly stupid feature of the tax is the 40% rebate for companies that are making a loss. This is absurd - we're penalising successful companies that are providing jobs, stimulating our economy, growing and paying tax, and giving money to companies that are doing the opposite!
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics yeah interesting point although I agree with a mining tax in general. I remember a few years ago when the drought was worse and the ABC was reporting on a meeting out in western Queensland, they asked farmers about drought assistance, exceptional circumstances etc. I thought it would be all positive but a few farmers spoke of frustration that it was keeping the poorly run farms going while those with better strategies who stayed viable got nothing.
hogey74 1 year ago
@sooot175 - I disagree. 1. This is a tax on profit plus there is a threshold. So how can it put a mining operation out of business? If the owners are geared to the gunwales they might fail - true - but that's their fault and the profitable mine will chug along with new owners. And reduce investment? This tax would actually make investing in mining a safer bet! The top end of profits would be reduced but the risks of exploration and the start up phase are significantly reduced.
hogey74 1 year ago
@hogey74 that's a good analogy. another thing to consider is that by the time we've had all the back and forth of money getting paid to the states, federal government, then getting paid back from the fed to the states we've probably lost a fair chunk of money just from the admin side. I don't object to mining companies paying a fair amount, but constitutionally, that's between them and the states who are supposed to provide the services. the fed gov just adds a new layer of beurocracy
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
Comment removed
VintageRose99 1 year ago
@monkeytypist The super-tax is on the company, not the executives!
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjiko so what? The executives get their bonuses and their shares from companies. If they just were honest and said "it'll reduce the size of our dividends and bonuses", I'd be more receptive.
monkeytypist 1 year ago
@monkeytypist it will also reduce investment in Australia and in the company. the share prices fall. The Major holder of Australian Mining shares as a whole is Australian Superannuation. We all loose! (All of us with jobs anyway)
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjiko says you. The minerals are still in the ground, and China is still building billions of fridges and washing machines. I'd believe "we'll all be ruined" if, as the ad says, I hadn't heard it so many times before.
monkeytypist 1 year ago 2
@monkeytypist I never said we would be ruined.
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjiko even if investment in Australia falls (which it won't, as the video says, we've heard it all before), share prices won't fall for long because the mining companies would move out of allegedly less profitable projects into other more profitable activities elsewhere, putting their share prices back up again. Recently ALL share prices have fallen with the mining share prices falling less than other industries.
powertools1 1 year ago
True, but think of it this way. If you were a greedy bastard getting billions a year; then had 40% of your profits taken away, would you just accept that or raise the cost of the product you sell? That's my only issue with it. Oh, and also if the money made will actually get back to the Australian people, but you know, same old, same old.
Nakeeky 1 year ago
ten years ago we (the australian tax payer) got $1 in $3 from the miners now we get $1 in $7 they can afford it. And where are most of the mining coorporations ?? off shore !
ozziamc 1 year ago 2
@ozziamc
Do you believe everything Rudd tells you? The $1 in $7 figure is taken from an American POSTGRADUATE paper comparing tax paid by Mining companys the world over and doesn't include royalties paid by mining companys to the state government. Further more the ATO (that's the AUSTRALIAN TAX OFFICE) Figures show that last year Mining in australia paid 43cents on the dollar (thats $1 in every $2.32) and over the last 5 years an average of 42 cents on the dollar. BEFORE ROYALTIES WERE PAID.
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
They certainly have enough money to pay for it, but they're already paying the industry standard for taxes aren't they? Why doesn't the government focus their resources on carbon regulation rather than business regulation?
ssaxby02 1 year ago
mmmm Guess i shouldn't believe big business all the time after all. Thank god someone is out looking after the little guy.
sps996desmo 1 year ago
@sps996desmo
"Thank god someone is out looking after the little guy."
I heard somebody say that about Macquarie Bank once.
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
nicely done
abudd12 1 year ago
I can't wait untill Rudd makes an ignominious mining tax stepdown. Rudd is a quasi-socialist hell bent on raping enterprise.
SaladNinja3569 1 year ago
@SaladNinja3569 Digging up a nations resources is not very enterprising or innovative.
SmashShmay 1 year ago
@SmashShmay It creates jobs. It creates wealth. Is that not enough to constitue enterprise? Do you even know what the definition of enterprise is?
SaladNinja3569 1 year ago
@SaladNinja3569 Wealth for who? Billionaires to become further billionaires, companies to fill there already over flowing coffers.
SmashShmay 1 year ago
@SmashShmay You're right! We should abolish all big business's that employee 100,000's of people.
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjiko lol. we tried that - we called it workchoices.
FlashMeterRed 1 year ago
@FlashMeterRed so workchoice's abolished big business?
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjiko the 101 workers or less and no unfair dismissal would have. but sorry, just a joke. please continue your productive mining tax youtube debate.
FlashMeterRed 1 year ago
@FlashMeterRed sorry i thought you were talking about companys with 1000's of people my bad! wasnt sure if it was a joke or not, sometimes hard to tell on the internet!
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjik We are talking mining companies here, nothing to do with big business. The tax actually helps companies in another sectors. Decreased company tax.
SmashShmay 1 year ago
@SmashShmay yeah but why are we targeting the only sector thats kept australia running during the GFC? decreased company tax is good, if it is even across the board then i say that's fair.
jncyjduivjiko 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjiko No, they aren't screwing the state government out of royalties, they are refunding the royalties and in doing so removing an inefficiency in the market. That's what I meant by 'abolishing'. As for your comment about how it was the only sector that 'kept australia running'...you do know that mining companies shed 15% of their workforce and if all sectors of the economy performed as poorly as they did then we would be facing unemployment of almost 20%. Again, facts.
Lingwe2 1 year ago
@jncyjduivjiko The expected ongoing growth of China and the subsequent demand which has and will cause further growth in the mining sector. The mining tax allows the profits derived from the nations resources to be used by the government to invest in infrastructure and jobs. If another GFC occurs, the mining tax will allow more efficient spread of growth.
SmashShmay 1 year ago 2
@SmashShmay
You are assuming that demand from China for our resources will not stop. Have you not heard of the product or economic life cycle? Our resources boom is probably in it's maturity phase. Such resources are finite, the demand for them is not necessarily infinite.
Furthermore, there is no consistent evidence that stimulus spending actually prevents recession, but rather prolongs it. How can you get out of a debt-caused crisis by spending yourself further into debt?
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
@SmashShmay
Let's take money off a profitable company and give it to a company which is incapable of operating at a profit. Can you actually step back and think about what you are saying?
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
@nonkonnekt A debt caused crises yes, private debt. Government debt is a whole different thing. It is economic 101, when the private sector is in decline, it is the governments duty is to spend and support the economy until the private sector recovers. We are not giving money to unprofitable companies, the decrease is company tax is across the board.
SmashShmay 1 year ago
@SmashShmay I don't think they cover the effects of stimulus in first year economics, but in any case, it's not. It's Keynesian Economics. And the fact is, stimulus has NOT been proven to work. Governments merely want to be SEEN to be doing SOMETHING. Private sector is suffering because coercive (public) sector steals (taxes) all of their money from them and are completely unproductive by their own right. Decrease in company tax is NOT across the board, it is UP for mining companies.
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
@SmashShmay And again, you say government debt is different to private debt. Well, no, government debt is still money that will have to be repayed, this time by citizens through higher taxes (and less services) or through the dilution of their wealth when the central banks print more money (inflation). At the end of 2008, it was private debt in the sub-prime crisis. Now, it's public (government) debt, look at Greece. Hungary is now facing the same problem. Next the UK, Portugal, and Italy.
nonkonnekt 1 year ago
@SmashShmay 'overflowing coffers' 'wealth for billionaires only'... Ughk, bin your old school socialist rhetoric before I throw up, please. It creates wealth for hundreds of thousands of employees (thousands of whom will get sacked if this tax is passed - don't deny this, look at Xstrata) and shareholders (but some of these are overseas). You're such an idiot. If there was no rich class would be happy - You don't care if people are or not poor, you just don't like people who are wealthier than..
SaladNinja3569 1 year ago