DUH!!! This announcer is incredibly biased...He's not allowing David and Angus to debate...He's just joining in on the barrage of assaults on Angus because he doesn't believe that personal experiences override the Bible.
8 Charity never faileth : but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail ; whether there be tongues, they shall cease ; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away . notice it says "knowledge" will vainish. so if the gifts vanished so has knowledge. The word knowledge isn't talking about revelatory gift because the same greek word is used in other context of scripture not dealing with the gift of a word of knowledge
When Peter raised Dorcas from the dead through the power of God, what did he do? He pushed everyone out from the room, closed the door, then he knelt down and prayed! So if Rev. Angus is not denying this fact, what is he denying? I know of a missionary in china who was preaching and some people passed around a mat with a dead man and placed him on the stage, in the middle of the sermon he got up and walked down! The preacher didn't even know what was happening till people started cheering!
Personally, I lean away from traditional Pentecostal interpretations of key texts in Acts. Why is it that my Reformed brethren who are cessationist, mock and ridicule those who differ? During the first 60 seconds of this video you see the text introducing the two debaters. Notice how the cessationist is a "Rev" from somewhere "Northern Ireland", but the black guy is just a "Pentecostal Preacher". I guess "Rev" from somewhere is of course, better then a nut who is just a "Pentecostal Preacher".
The whole analogy shows two modes of building. Thus a change and cessation of the conformational aspect. When Jesus said greater works shall ye do, he was addressing the apostles in a quantitative sense. They did not raise 4 day old dead bodies as Jesus did. But still the apostles did not have to have the controlled environment of todays faith healers, even their shadow cast healings.
Todays healings are a stage illusions achieved by hypno-music, suggestion, expectation and adrenaline!!!
This verse says the office of apostle was abolished. Rev 21:14 and the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. The whole "foundation" analogy is supposed to point out to you that the church will have two phases. An establishing phase (the time when the message, messengers and church is established through divine confirmation) and a growing phase (to build upon the foundation). You cannot build foundation, upon foundation, ad finitum.
Cessationists cite Eph. 2:20 because it mentions that apostles and prophets have built the foundation of the Church with Christ as the cornerstone. But does Paul (assuming Paul did, in fact, author Ephesians) say anything at all about abolishing those two offices? Of course not. If this is the best he can come up with, then the case for the charismatic is made. :P
sec 10,11 Isnt that a gift? Its not belonging to us. What? If a person has the gift of miracles, then that gift does belong to the person. It belongs as a gift. To pray for someone is hardly to raise the physical dead.
The cessasionist argument really is very weak, and built largley on assumption not scripture i.e. the apparent end of the apostolic era. Can any cessasionist please tell me what scripture refers to this? Also, I think it is very unfair to accuse Pentecostals of 'denying the divinity of Christ'. This really is a baseless statement and insulting to the millions who love Christ as the son of the living God.
Forgive me, but I am very tired at the moment, but what most Charismatics overlook is the fact that the gifts of the Holy Spirit could only be passed on when an Apostle laid his hands on someone. They also ignore that fact that when the Holy Spirit was passed on to that person, by direct contact with an Apostle, that they could not pass it on to someone else. This is why we see that signs and wonders have ceased up to this present day!
Hilarious! I just knew Antwi was going to waste his breath the second he said he thought he knew which verse Stewart was going to use. You're arguing with a Presbyterian, Antwi! We don't care about that dispensationalist trash!
There are Calvinist dispensationalists. I attend a Presbyterian college, and my NT professor is one (although he is Baptist). Classical dispensationalism has some issues, as does covenant theology, but it's not trash. There are some very good arguments to be made against Calvin's ecclesiology, so quit throwing insults.
DUH!!! This announcer is incredibly biased...He's not allowing David and Angus to debate...He's just joining in on the barrage of assaults on Angus because he doesn't believe that personal experiences override the Bible.
BillyVeePersonal 4 weeks ago
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8 Charity never faileth : but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail ; whether there be tongues, they shall cease ; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away . notice it says "knowledge" will vainish. so if the gifts vanished so has knowledge. The word knowledge isn't talking about revelatory gift because the same greek word is used in other context of scripture not dealing with the gift of a word of knowledge
godapproved 7 months ago
the moderators on these shows are always sooo annoying and out of the loop
NoLongerGodDamned 2 years ago
When Peter raised Dorcas from the dead through the power of God, what did he do? He pushed everyone out from the room, closed the door, then he knelt down and prayed! So if Rev. Angus is not denying this fact, what is he denying? I know of a missionary in china who was preaching and some people passed around a mat with a dead man and placed him on the stage, in the middle of the sermon he got up and walked down! The preacher didn't even know what was happening till people started cheering!
hlpsg 2 years ago
Personally, I lean away from traditional Pentecostal interpretations of key texts in Acts. Why is it that my Reformed brethren who are cessationist, mock and ridicule those who differ? During the first 60 seconds of this video you see the text introducing the two debaters. Notice how the cessationist is a "Rev" from somewhere "Northern Ireland", but the black guy is just a "Pentecostal Preacher". I guess "Rev" from somewhere is of course, better then a nut who is just a "Pentecostal Preacher".
Bugzt1 2 years ago
The whole analogy shows two modes of building. Thus a change and cessation of the conformational aspect. When Jesus said greater works shall ye do, he was addressing the apostles in a quantitative sense. They did not raise 4 day old dead bodies as Jesus did. But still the apostles did not have to have the controlled environment of todays faith healers, even their shadow cast healings.
Todays healings are a stage illusions achieved by hypno-music, suggestion, expectation and adrenaline!!!
How2BecomeAChristian 2 years ago
This verse says the office of apostle was abolished. Rev 21:14 and the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. The whole "foundation" analogy is supposed to point out to you that the church will have two phases. An establishing phase (the time when the message, messengers and church is established through divine confirmation) and a growing phase (to build upon the foundation). You cannot build foundation, upon foundation, ad finitum.
How2BecomeAChristian 2 years ago
Cessationists cite Eph. 2:20 because it mentions that apostles and prophets have built the foundation of the Church with Christ as the cornerstone. But does Paul (assuming Paul did, in fact, author Ephesians) say anything at all about abolishing those two offices? Of course not. If this is the best he can come up with, then the case for the charismatic is made. :P
heart4moocows 3 years ago
sec 10,11 Isnt that a gift? Its not belonging to us. What? If a person has the gift of miracles, then that gift does belong to the person. It belongs as a gift. To pray for someone is hardly to raise the physical dead.
Secretknowledge75 3 years ago
The cessasionist argument really is very weak, and built largley on assumption not scripture i.e. the apparent end of the apostolic era. Can any cessasionist please tell me what scripture refers to this? Also, I think it is very unfair to accuse Pentecostals of 'denying the divinity of Christ'. This really is a baseless statement and insulting to the millions who love Christ as the son of the living God.
paul1847 4 years ago 2
amen! ignorance from people who put God in a the box they have created for themselves.
tcap8055 2 years ago
Forgive me, but I am very tired at the moment, but what most Charismatics overlook is the fact that the gifts of the Holy Spirit could only be passed on when an Apostle laid his hands on someone. They also ignore that fact that when the Holy Spirit was passed on to that person, by direct contact with an Apostle, that they could not pass it on to someone else. This is why we see that signs and wonders have ceased up to this present day!
puritanofgrace 4 years ago
Cornelius received the gifts of the spirit without laying on of hands, or benefit of baptism. @puritanofgrace
daBlackBaron13 1 year ago
Hilarious! I just knew Antwi was going to waste his breath the second he said he thought he knew which verse Stewart was going to use. You're arguing with a Presbyterian, Antwi! We don't care about that dispensationalist trash!
mothcorrupteth 4 years ago
I don't believe the reverend Angus Stewart is presbyterian, I think he may actually be of the protestant reformed churches of Ireland. PRCI.
reformedman 4 years ago
Hm, it seemed that I read something by him in a Presbyterian theo journal once, but maybe I'm thinking of another Stewart.
mothcorrupteth 4 years ago
There are Calvinist dispensationalists. I attend a Presbyterian college, and my NT professor is one (although he is Baptist). Classical dispensationalism has some issues, as does covenant theology, but it's not trash. There are some very good arguments to be made against Calvin's ecclesiology, so quit throwing insults.
heart4moocows 3 years ago