I love how the guy calling people heathens and damned souls immediately says "why are you being intolerant" HA HA HA HA HA HAHA Christians in a nut shell
this athiest in the video is justified in his actions- if the street preacher can spout his ridiculous bullshit, why can't he express his opinion as well? you know why athiests such as myself get annoyed at christians like this guy? because we have self-righteous people telling us how sinful we are, pretending they are perfect. people dont want to hear that. therefore, dont wonder why you get treated the way you do. thanks
@uiewgf Do you ever read Bible or USA Founders? In tis case, "religion refers to non-Christians. Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
LOL, OMG, relax dude, if his message offends you so much, why don't you just move on? Last time I checked nothing in our constitution requires you to stop and listen to this preacher, in other words he can exercise his right to free speech, and you can exercise your right to move on..
@DaughterxOfxBlaze broke her hand, wow i wont be able to just simply move away. i would get a gang of friends and start a bashing party in the church... sunday morning....
I'm a buddhist living in a nearly 100% christian town. and i dont mean the nice christians that are cool about their religion. I mean the ones who pretty much tell you at every opportunity they get that you're going to hell. they broke my best friends hand because shes a lesbian and forced her to move away.
and as a buddhist i cant do anything to stop them...thought i'd love to give them a good wallop
How can people today still believe in such outdated belief systems??? I really feel sorry for the two preachers. Hope they see the light of common sense. Glad they've left and aren't bothering people anymore.
@XlMintylX Actually, Thomas Paine was a Deist, meaning that he believed in an impersonal God and believed that he created the universe and left it to operate on its own. However, it is essentially the same worldview as Atheism.
@edgar669966 Yea, I couldn't really recall what he had said too well. Ultimately though, the only differences between Deism and atheism are the origin of life, and the existence of a god.
@XlMintylX Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
Sin, wrath & repentance are apart of the Biblical message but so is Christ's grace. His birth, life, death, resurrection & purpose are always missing from most open air preachers. They weigh heavy on sin, hell & our obedience. And, "Jesus' blood saves!" is about all you'll hear before they jump right back to "REPENT!" Lets not forget what motivates repentance... CHRIST.
IN ASWER TO SOME RESPONDING TO MY OTHER COMMENT! How can you think it's funny-or that because it's the 21st Century-no one wants to hear?! I fully understand that you don't want a fanatic harrassing you in "your domain" with a bullhorn and unscriptural hate signs. Then there are those who are moderate street preachers. I may not like that Muslims, KKK, Black Panthers say what they do, but if I want their "FREE SPEECH" rights hindered/taken-I should give mine up as well! AND THAT AINT HAPPENING!
PS. I operate a FREE underground online/in person Music Ministry, mostly for the Homeless, Impoverished, Missing, Runaways, Disabled/Addicted, etc... I/We set up and street fairs, flea markets, bars (yep), etc. I only have a few music vids up and will of the street ministry later this year. Point is-I STRONGLY VALUE ALL MY NEW COVENANT & USA CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! So should YOU!
@kenstasia Ever heard of noise ordinances? You can and will be arrested in most states and face a fine and a month in jail, just-fully so. You love jesus and your religion? Keep it in your church or to yourselves. kbai.
@Bllackguard666 SO THEN YOUR RIGHTS TO SILENCE OVER MY RIGHTS TO SPEECH? Typical Liberalism... This man above WAS NOT loud, nor directing his words at any particular person. There's noise all over the city! Furthermore, the Bible commands us to "GO OUT" and to DISREGARD laws that SURPRESS that! You must REALIZE that the USA and CONSTITUTION were FOUNDED on JESUS CHRIST and HIS GOSPEL! Certainly you know before there were states people fled here to FREELY WORSHIP GOD of the BIBLE!
@kenstasia Mad bro? Seriously, you compare some guy unwilling making other people hear his voice to traffic and wind blowing? Oookkkaay....I believe in God, but this is the reason I avoid any organized religion, you guys are nuts. The "Freedom" of speech ends when you disrupt others, impend on their rights not to have the unwanted, and forced noise pollution, and the area awful to be in. This is not the proper way to preach. Sorry, your remarks are just silly and boarding on insane.
@Bllackguard666 MAD? Why should I be? I'm quite amused... I'm NOT the member of any Christian Sect, Religion or Political Party. I'm going to bet that you or the anti-Christs/Christians who commented belong to something-that in itself can be a Religion. I've tried a variety of those-even being an atheist-none of those worked for me! Please don't include me in "You Guys". I only go where I'm accepted, expose the fake Prosperity/Faith Healers, live moderately & don't ask for money...
@kenstasia Where you are wrong is on many accounts. Atheism is the absence of a claim, belief or faith in a fairytale. We wouldn't have to speak at all if the religious agenda was to control society and how people choose to love, make love, what they do to their own bodies, what rules to follow, based on something not everyone accepts. If you are not religious, then why are you in such an uproar?
@kenstasia since when is it a religion? there are no beliefs, no dogmas. atheists are simply looking at probability and conclude, that probably there is no god. not much of a religion there
@Bllackguard666 What then, is the proper way to preach? Acts 4: 18And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 20For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. 21So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people:
@kenstasia As an atheist, I couldn't care less what your book tells you to do. On earth, there are ethics, morals, and those include laws and ordinances based on logical thinking and respect for others in public, especially. The "proper" way I think to preach your religion would be in the expensive churches you built. At a christian gathering, and not imposing on the general public who have a right (equal to yours) NOT to have to hear it and be interrupted and annoyed.
@Bllackguard666 There you go again again, including me with the OTHERS! I DON'T BUILD CHURCHES (buildings)! I DON'T ask for money! I don't go where I'm NOT welcome! I PRESUME I'm welome here because I'm DEFENDING PART of this video! It is YOU and the others who ARE NOT WELCOME & INFRINGING on this mans RIGHTS to post this! Doesn't your HUMANISTIC INTELLIGENCE tell you that? But, as a "CHRISTIAN"-I'm interested in your "INTELLECT"-to a DEGREE!
@Bllackguard666 WOW! It was you and others coming at me for a GENERAL COMMENT that I made that was directed at no-one! This is the TYPICAL TREATMENT I get from LIBERALS & ATHEISTS eventually! The subject here ISN'T WHETHER GOD EXISTS or NOT-but if this "preacher" is protected by the FIRST AMENDMENT! He is-and you're not! "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
@kenstasia ...cont: If you want to freely preach in public, forget it unless you obtain a license, permission, and do it so that it does not infringe on other peoples right to peace. The Constitution was NOT founded on religion, that is a myth many people claim, but is just not correct. I was based on freedom to worship as you will, not on worshiping. It was founded on democracy and freedom/liberty for all. Not just arrogant, religious freaktards.
@Bllackguard666 You say you believe in GOD-do you in Jesus Christ? And as with Acts 4, need I mention all of the Prophets, Apostles-and uh, what about Jesus? What of all those who were harassed, imprisoned and killed because they, "INFRINGED ON SOMEONES RIGHTS"! And what of the USA Founders/Forefathers? Religion?True Christianity is not a religion. But when used by USA Founders/Others it is mostly used to describe such. "Sorry, your remarks are just silly and boarding on insane." Quote You.
@Bllackguard666 Do you ever read Bible or USA Founders? In tis case, "religion refers to non-Christians. Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
@kenstasia Many Americans did practice Christianity, but so also did many believe in deistic philosophy. Indeed, most of our influential Founding Fathers, although they respected the rights of other religionists, held to deism and Freemasonry tenets rather than to Christianity....cont
@kenstasia Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.....
@kenstasia Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." OWNED.
Hmmm... if it didn't happen the USA wouldn't be here and neither would you! Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
I love the irony that he says that he's preaching the word of love when his first words are "there is no life outside of the blood jesus christ shed for you!"
I love how most religious preachers bail the second you start giving them a taste of their own medicine. They're not used to having Atheists stand up for themselves...and thats changing.
@joethemoproductions Your not going to stop a Christian by heckling him. Its an honor "Blessed are you when persecuted" Second they are simply following their biblical mandate "go and make disciples". What discourages a true blue Christian is when nobody listens to them. Besides that, just let them breath the air and speak their words. If you don't like it, just walk away, instead of grabbing a loudspeaker and acting like a 5 year old.
Good for you! I am so going to get my copy of the god delusion, get a mike, and quote dawkins next time i hear some idiot christians spouting off about their mythology. i usually try to debate them, but they like to argue. just preaching at them is pure brilliance.
I tried watching your apology to atheists, but i just don't think you owe anyone an apology. you're just playing by their rules, and that is smart.
These men have every right to believe in any God they want to and the right to free speach as accorded to every American. You are a coward for heckling men who were not harming anyone. Seems to me you were being intolerant to them you hypocrite.
the religious antagonist was exercising his right of free speech. if these people don't want to respect the public space and willfully disrupt other peoples' public space, then why shouldn't someone do the same? Seems to me that you are being intolerant to him you hypocrite.
I have to ask you an important question: Man is made in god's image, right? So, if man farts then god farts, right? So, what's to stop us from believing that god farted and blew the universes into existence? It makes perfect sense ie a perfect god who is "all powerful" did an "all powerful fart" in order to create. In knew there was an intelligent explanation.
They were just as antagonistic. There are ways to talk to people like you, to disarm you and enter into a discussion. There were some annoying street preachers at my college once which I tried to talk to, though not quite so antagonistically, lol. I disagreed with what they were saying and their approach. The preachers here were doing everything wrong the moment you approached. They put a bad name on Christians, lol.
I want to see more of this. I am tired of Christians telling everyone else theyre going to hell, I thought God was the final judge, Not Christians claiming to follow Jesus. Why dont they let god do his job and they shut up and leave everyone else alone?
"Isn't it far more moral to do good things for their own sake rather than as a way to suck up to god? Our true sense of right and wrong have NOTHING to do with religion. Morality is older than religion." -Richard Dawkins
I am sure God has a special prize for you since you have decided to antagonize the few people who have enough courage to tell the truth.I was once like you and hated God but God showed me mercy and he will show you mercy too.
These street preachers must be a big problem in America? - You'd be hard pushed to even find one either here or in the UK......... Nor even the ones, who approach you one on one, any more
It's a pity really, because I enjoy listening to ther futile attempts to justify this irration message in the presence of any reasonably informed and logical antagonist.
That they can't, is probably the reason they stopped doing it. Strange that they carry on believing it..That seems even more irrational to me!
@Tobytrim We can prove God exist because of the impossibility of the contrary. Without God it is impossible to prove anythingThe Atheist worldview is irrational and cannot consistently provide the preconditions for intelligible experience.Science, logic or morality.The Atheist worldview can allow for the laws of logic.The uniformity of nature. The ability for the mind to understand the universe and moral absolutes.We are just of bag of impersonal molecules in motion in your world view.
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "We can prove God exist because of the impossibility of the contrary"
Ha ha!! You need to work on your powers of reasoning !! What "contrary" Do you mean? Atheists believe different things. I even know of atheists who worship space aliens, or who don't accept scientific/ secular explanations which negate the source of YOUR "God"
The only thing they hold in common is a lack of belief in your particular superstition. Better explanations exist than those silly fairy tales!
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "We can prove God exist because of the impossibility of the contrary"
Incidentally, your response to me here is a complete non sequitor. - A red herring!
My point was that you need logic to even define any "God". Therefore "it" is contingent on the laws of logic. Therefore, you cannot use him to explain the existence of or authorship of logic either. The same goes for science and the same goes for morality. The are HUMAN understanding . Intelligence is a biological process.
@Tobytrim You are little confused here .The laws of logic are are immaterial universal abstract entities In your world view they don’t exist. The laws of logic are not man made . Can the universe exist and not exist at the same time and same place before human thinking came around?. If the laws of logic are man made then man can change them as well . A thieve can say this is my wallet and not my wallet at the same time .Sorry laws of logc are not man made .
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "You are little confused here .The laws of logic are are immaterial universal abstract entities In your world view they don’t exist"
Ha ha! I think it is you who are confused!! I have already said that logic is an observation of consistency. Human beings call this a law - No-one ever needed to "decree" these laws as an edict.
As I explained, even your "God" would need to conform to logical laws in order to exist. He cannot decide what they are!
@Tobytrim Once again , Human minds did not event the laws of logic. If human minds made the laws of logic then Human minds can change the laws of logic .Can the universe exist and non exist at the same time and the same way before human thinking came along ?Can a thieve say this is my wallet and not my wallet at the same time and same place ?Once again we are made in the image of God . The laws of logic reflect the mind of God .If you have a law you have a law giver .
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Once again , Human minds did not event the laws of logic."
And once again, the "laws" of logic , are NOT even laws without a human mind to recognise a consistency and percieve them as such . They are simply "what is".
You're trying a very lame argument called the transcendental argument, most recently posited by a moron called Matt Slick., and you don't even seem to have HIS grasp of it- Lol!!
@Tobytrim I quess you can’t answer the question so here comes the Ad Hominem. Can the universe exist and non-exist at the same time and the same place before human thinking came along. Yes or no Toby. Dont be afraid to answer . You can send it in my personal box if you are afraid to answer it here . Have you seen the laws of logic can we purchase them ?Come on Toby dont be afraid to answer simple questions
No it can't, and neither can "God" . BOTH must conform to the pre-existing "laws" of logic.......... I have no problem answering that- Why should you think I have?
@Tobytrim Then Human mind did not come up with the Laws of logic . Thank you very much . Can a thieve say this is my wallet and not my wallet at the same time and same place and be correct ? If human minds made up the laws of logic then humans can change them we all think differently .Then there is no debate .
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Then Human mind did not come up with the Laws of logic"
No as I've already tried to explain, in a way ven a child could understnd, they are human recognition of what exists. They become laws because the human mind recognises them as such.
Come on! Make the effort!! - It's not rocket science. Human beings did not invent the law of non contradiction, any more than a "God" could have. It is simply what is.
@Tobytrim Why i said there is no debate because we can make up our own laws of logic .Exactly what you are doing . I ask you where the laws of logic come and you say They are simply "what is. , Let me ask you can you define truth in your world view ?
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "I ask you where the laws of logic come and you say They are simply "what is."
No....I said they are the human ability to RECOGNISE "what is" . You are very dishonest, or not too bright I'm afraid, because that makes all the difference I need to destroy your limp argument, and you don't seem to realise it!
So a good definition of truth, is what I'm using and you are not!
@Tobytrim Once again please listen closely please , If the laws of logic are what the Human ability to RECOGNISE what is . Then Human mind can make up his own laws of logic . You Ad Hominem means nothing . Your abrituary nonsense means nothing making up truth as you go along .Once again what is truth in your world view .
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Let me ask you can you define truth in your world view ?"
A less flippant answer would be sometimes, and sometimes not. This is the same as anyone else regardless of their "world view".
Religious people just keep telling themselves that you have the truth because it's what you want it to be . You keep saying it even after you've been shown it isn't!
Do you think YOUR worldview can define the "truth" any better, If so, why does it rely so much on lies?
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Why i said there is no debate because we can make up our own laws of logic"
Ha ha! No we can't - that explains the religious mind though, if you think we can!!
You guys try it all the time.
However, bottom line - You have tried to trap me by asking what I think the laws of logic are. I've told you many times. Why do you keep repeating the question instead of challenging my answer?
Is it because you can't? - Or are you using your ignorance to argue?
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Are you saying the laws of logic are part of the universe ?"
No you moron! - Lol!!
The laws of logic are human recognition of the universe!!
How many more times do I need to spell this out to you. I don't even get why you are labouring this point - It negates your god as the author of logical laws too.
He needs to conform to the same laws to be posited from oneh human mind to another - or even to be concieved by a mind
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 ". Have you seen the laws of logic can we purchase them ?Come on Toby dont be afraid to answer simple questions"
Ha ha! Oh dear!!..
I defined the laws of logic up front. I told you EXACTLY what they are so there would be no doubt. I also explained why they are neither concepts nor substance, and how they t transcend God" if they were either. It's a bit late for this kind of Matt Slick subterfuge
@Tobytrim says (They are simply "what is").. There is simply God ?. How does that work for you . Now that is lame if anything is . Like i said you cant account for the laws of logic they are not simply what is . If there are simply what is . Then anyone can make up there own law of logic . A thieve can say hey this is my wallet and not my wallet . (That is simply what is ). I notice every comment you make is arbitrary.
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 " Like i said you cant account for the laws of logic they are not simply what is "
Ha ha! But I HAVE accounted for them many times and right from the outset!!
Can't you read? Or do you simply not understand the argument.
The laws of logic are simply what we call the recognised pattern of what we observe. The FACT that something can not be "A" and "not A" is an observation that we call a law . The LAW of gravity isn't a decree of a "lawgiver" either!
@Tobytrim said The laws of logic are simply what we call the recognised pattern of what we observe.I reject that statement once again . If they are a recognised pattern of what we observe . Everyone observe things differently . If human minds made it up to be a law , Then human minds can change the law . This is the point you are missing . Another thing why should the universe obey laws if there is no law giver ?
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "If human minds made it up to be a law , Then human minds can change the law "
Wow!! You really are not very bright, are you? Or is this a deliberate refusal to understand?
I explained why neither God nor man can make up the laws of logic - They are not inventions or decrees - They are how we understand what exists or might exist. Not what we make up!
I destroyed your silly argument in my very first response and you still don't understand how -lol!
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Another thing why should the universe obey laws if there is no law giver ?"
Haha !! Do you think the universe has a mind to be obedient to commands. The universe simply "IS" - in exactly the way you want to believe "God" simply "IS" .
Both conform to the laws of logic as we observe them. No-one commands them...Least of all "God" . Being only conceptual in appearance, he need to conform to the laws of logic more!
@Tobytrim Lets have some more fun here . You deifne that the laws of logic are recognised pattern of what we observe.Then anything goes . It doesnt matter what anyone thinks according to you . To say they are thinking wrong violates your arbitrary definition of laws of logic .Wednesday sleep tuesday and pizza was lost . That is your silly explanation of the laws of logic .Anything goes .
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "You deifne that the laws of logic are recognised pattern of what we observe.Then anything goes" Not at all - I said it is a recognition of a pattern . Human beings have that ability as well as other higher life forms. However, if I read your badly made point. without our ability to ascribe patterns, the universe might well be a non descript mass of atoms. We use this pattern recognition also to describe a concept.
@Tobytrim Once again this Beggs the question . Wow this is silly your ABRITARTY NONSENSE IS SHOWING AGAIN . This is what you said Toby said it is a recognition of a pattern . Human beings have that ability . The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic.
We don’t form the Law of Logic from the observation, we instead confirm the pre-existing logical truth with our observation.
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 " The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic."
And YET AGAIN, it is our observation that makes them laws. We recognise consistencies and call them laws .
Our observation does not make the facts themselves true or false, Why are you having trouble understanding this??
In the same way, if you define an imagined entity you need to define it within this experience
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "To say they are thinking wrong violates your arbitrary definition of laws of logic"
My very point is that the laws of logic are not arbitrary to anyone - Not even "God" if he existed. It is nort possible - and I explained why repeatedly.
Why are you debating this if you can't understand the arguments?
Stupidity, deliberate or circumstantial, is not a valid argument.....Neither is ignorance
And neither is it MY arbirary definition- It is observable.
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "We don’t form the Law of Logic from the observation, we instead confirm the pre-existing logical truth with our observation"
Correct! - I have been saying that from the beginning! Now that we decided we agree - Make your damn argument so I can show you where you have got in wrong??!! AGAIN!!!
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic".
You seem to be trying to muddy up an argument you've already lost, by wasting time on questions I've repeatedly answered from the very beginning.
So we have established that no known mind could be , nor needs to be, the author of these observed facts, we call the "laws of logic".
@Tobytrim a sea shell, for example, shell can reveal to us a Law of Logic. Observing that the shell does nothing but exist as we might then posit and formulate the Law of Identity.Then you might say that the Laws of Logic can be discovered from observations of matter.we can observe this physical reality.then we assign a logical absolute to the observation we just made. We assign something that is conceptual (and requires a mind) to our observation of matter. CONTINUE
TOBY But the mere fact that we made an observation and then assigned a logical absolute to that observation does not then ACCOUNT for the existence of all logical absolutes in the first place. The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic. We don’t form the Law of Logic from the observation, we instead confirm the pre-existing logical truth with our observation.
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "But the mere fact that we made an observation and then assigned a logical absolute to that observation does not then ACCOUNT for the existence of all logical absolutes in the first place"
No.......and neither does anything else.
Nor do they necessarily require a mind. We base our concepts, even what we fantasize, (such as gods and other superstitions) on our inductive reasoning derived from the experience of what we observe as logical absolutes.
@Tobytrim Once again back to square one . Where do the laws of logic come from?absolute, unchangeable, internally consistent and transcendent simply because God Himself is absolute, unchangeable, internally consistent and transcendent. WITHOUT GOD THERE IS NO LAWS OF LOGIC .
Prove it? For example , is god capable of making a square circle? Or is he omnipotent enough to make an object so heavy that he can't lift it. Is he responsible for his own existence? After all, you are trying to present him as a logical possibility!
@Tobytrim Lets play your silly game . How do you know there cant be square circle tomorroow since you say logic is only based on observation, you've never observed a square circle,
@Tobytrim God cannot do that which is illogical cause it's contrary to His nature. I'm saying that it's it's contrary to His nature and that's why it's impossible. Why cant there be a square circle in the future . If the laws of logic depend on observation . Can the Laws of logic change ?
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 " God cannot do that which is illogical cause it's contrary to His nature."
Exactly!! You are defining your "God" as something that HAS a nature. Ergo it conforms to the laws of logic. Having a describable nature he can not be both what he is and not what he is not, for example.
Nothing which can be described or understood by a logical mind can be it's own author.
I have been pointing out this flaw in your reasoning and you refuse to understand it!
@Tobytrim existence of logic, based upon God's existence, is indeed a necessary thing since it would be a "part" of God's own natural thought processes.It would then be something innate, natural, and ontologically necessary because God exists and is not contingent upon anything.Therefore, logic would not be a creation of God, but a necessary existence because God exists. God cannot lie and he cannot be irrational .
Are you serious?? Or are you sincerely this stupid? How can any object be both a square ( by definition, not a circle) and a circle (by definition, not a square) all , and at the same time. It contradicts all those logical absolutes, which silly Matt Slick subterfuged to describe what simply is
Why are you labouring this childishly irrational red herring? Do you expect a different answer from me at some point- lol!!
@Tobytrim Once again how do you know that there cannot be a square cirlce tomorrow since you say LOGIC IS ONLY BASED ON OBSERVATION , you've never observed a square circle, but how do you know that that can't be? Answer the question . It shows you fallacy that logic is based on observation.
@Tobytrim The bottom line You will stand infront of God one day The bible says the fool in his heart says there is no God psa14-1Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, You will stand before God in give account of everything you did in your life .Every word deed and thought . God will not be mocked . My prayer is you repent and surrender your life to Jesus BEFORE IT IS TO LATE
I love how they say "Jesus died for you" as if that was a fact.
Even if it was true I never asked him to die for me, nor would I accept that offer. Its immoral.
FrozenPetrolPie 1 day ago
I love how the guy calling people heathens and damned souls immediately says "why are you being intolerant" HA HA HA HA HA HAHA Christians in a nut shell
JusBenLawyered 3 days ago
Massive balls.
SineFractal 3 days ago
fuck, this dude is a dick, but it is funny as hell
jeryek13 4 days ago
this athiest in the video is justified in his actions- if the street preacher can spout his ridiculous bullshit, why can't he express his opinion as well? you know why athiests such as myself get annoyed at christians like this guy? because we have self-righteous people telling us how sinful we are, pretending they are perfect. people dont want to hear that. therefore, dont wonder why you get treated the way you do. thanks
blackkittypurr 4 days ago
who's the fucking idiot with the beard?
Machiventa 5 days ago
Seriously tired of people thinking that Buddha is a god... -.- If youre going to bash other religions/philosophies learn about them first. Asshats.
1001001011011001 5 days ago
I subscribed, and I am officially a FAN, I love you
schmooo15 5 days ago
Religion has no place in modern society.
scottswan 6 days ago
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@uiewgf Do you ever read Bible or USA Founders? In tis case, "religion refers to non-Christians. Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
kenstasia 6 days ago
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tim55lincecum 1 week ago
LOL, OMG, relax dude, if his message offends you so much, why don't you just move on? Last time I checked nothing in our constitution requires you to stop and listen to this preacher, in other words he can exercise his right to free speech, and you can exercise your right to move on..
Drooblemeister 1 week ago
@Drooblemeister obvious troll is obvious
PatsRule1224 1 week ago
You give atheists a bad name.
gnome95 1 week ago
The only time that I ever encountered a street preacher was in San Antonio, Texas. Stereotypes ftw.
Jotappa 1 week ago
I see 3 scenarios:
1) 2 guys quoting source material saying "My belief can beat up your belief"
2) We went from 1 annoying street preacher to now 2 annoying street preachers
3) The first amendment at its finest
drakian 1 week ago
"The God Delusion" is a very good choice to read to those street preachers. If I see one in my area, I shall do the same. Thanks for a great idea.
We don't need their version of love (hatred), mercy (intolerance), and forgiveness (condemnation).
drfoxcourt 1 week ago
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kenstasia 1 week ago
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kenstasia 1 week ago
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kenstasia 1 week ago
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kenstasia 1 week ago
Thanks! What a feel good video. You have made my day.
TheMadBeach 1 week ago
Ignorance at its finest...
zfxman02 1 week ago
note- jesus suffered, so we're gonna worship him? we could say the same for kim jong il or whitney houston. come on now!
blackdragonwingz 1 week ago
That guy with the sunglasses had a point
nooobie1 1 week ago
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nooobie1 1 week ago
Fantastic!
pengu3012 1 week ago
fantastic, they really didn't like it did they! xD
THISISMYNAMEFORYTUBE 1 week ago
This guy is a riot
Rawrfearmeh333 1 week ago
You, sir, have a new subscriber.
Radi0ActivSquid 1 week ago 9
@DaughterxOfxBlaze broke her hand, wow i wont be able to just simply move away. i would get a gang of friends and start a bashing party in the church... sunday morning....
SoetSout 1 week ago
I love you.
Chops321 1 week ago
2 points of truth can't be right..
Its insane..
Thats the most unintentionally contextual things anyone has ever said.
TheVintovka 1 week ago
He was open to the New Testament. Lolz
basilman121 1 week ago
How come every street preacher I seen, including this one, saying that there can't be two truth. Either Christianity is true, or not true.
Which is true, however, they leverage it as if there is a 50% chance that Christianity is true.
KayleLang 1 week ago in playlist More videos from religiousantagonist
I'm a buddhist living in a nearly 100% christian town. and i dont mean the nice christians that are cool about their religion. I mean the ones who pretty much tell you at every opportunity they get that you're going to hell. they broke my best friends hand because shes a lesbian and forced her to move away.
and as a buddhist i cant do anything to stop them...thought i'd love to give them a good wallop
so thank you for this, thanks you SO MUCH
DaughterxOfxBlaze 1 week ago
You sir, are awesome.
scr34m1ng 1 week ago
You have balls my friend! Subbed!!
mythinktube 1 week ago
How can people today still believe in such outdated belief systems??? I really feel sorry for the two preachers. Hope they see the light of common sense. Glad they've left and aren't bothering people anymore.
BoxxyFan 1 week ago
@uiewgf Yep, Thomas Paine was a pretty staunch atheist, if memory serves. Ben Franklin also ridiculed Christianity as well.
XlMintylX 1 week ago in playlist More videos from religiousantagonist
@XlMintylX Actually, Thomas Paine was a Deist, meaning that he believed in an impersonal God and believed that he created the universe and left it to operate on its own. However, it is essentially the same worldview as Atheism.
edgar669966 1 week ago
@edgar669966 Yea, I couldn't really recall what he had said too well. Ultimately though, the only differences between Deism and atheism are the origin of life, and the existence of a god.
XlMintylX 1 week ago in playlist More videos from religiousantagonist
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@XlMintylX Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
kenstasia 1 week ago
dumb christian who has no idea how logic works: "HE BE TELLIN ME MY LOGIC INSANE"
aegisgfx 1 week ago 26
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Sin, wrath & repentance are apart of the Biblical message but so is Christ's grace. His birth, life, death, resurrection & purpose are always missing from most open air preachers. They weigh heavy on sin, hell & our obedience. And, "Jesus' blood saves!" is about all you'll hear before they jump right back to "REPENT!" Lets not forget what motivates repentance... CHRIST.
MACGARCIAcom 1 week ago
That. was. Great.
thimpthon 1 week ago
As soon as I find out where to get that book and megaphone, I'm going to do this to any street preacher I run across.
johnnysgotaproblem89 2 weeks ago
I loved every minute of this!
Bllackguard666 2 weeks ago
awesome man :P
TEHbeardguy 2 weeks ago
IN ASWER TO SOME RESPONDING TO MY OTHER COMMENT! How can you think it's funny-or that because it's the 21st Century-no one wants to hear?! I fully understand that you don't want a fanatic harrassing you in "your domain" with a bullhorn and unscriptural hate signs. Then there are those who are moderate street preachers. I may not like that Muslims, KKK, Black Panthers say what they do, but if I want their "FREE SPEECH" rights hindered/taken-I should give mine up as well! AND THAT AINT HAPPENING!
kenstasia 2 weeks ago
PS. I operate a FREE underground online/in person Music Ministry, mostly for the Homeless, Impoverished, Missing, Runaways, Disabled/Addicted, etc... I/We set up and street fairs, flea markets, bars (yep), etc. I only have a few music vids up and will of the street ministry later this year. Point is-I STRONGLY VALUE ALL MY NEW COVENANT & USA CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! So should YOU!
kenstasia 2 weeks ago
@kenstasia Ever heard of noise ordinances? You can and will be arrested in most states and face a fine and a month in jail, just-fully so. You love jesus and your religion? Keep it in your church or to yourselves. kbai.
Bllackguard666 2 weeks ago
@Bllackguard666 SO THEN YOUR RIGHTS TO SILENCE OVER MY RIGHTS TO SPEECH? Typical Liberalism... This man above WAS NOT loud, nor directing his words at any particular person. There's noise all over the city! Furthermore, the Bible commands us to "GO OUT" and to DISREGARD laws that SURPRESS that! You must REALIZE that the USA and CONSTITUTION were FOUNDED on JESUS CHRIST and HIS GOSPEL! Certainly you know before there were states people fled here to FREELY WORSHIP GOD of the BIBLE!
kenstasia 2 weeks ago
@kenstasia Mad bro? Seriously, you compare some guy unwilling making other people hear his voice to traffic and wind blowing? Oookkkaay....I believe in God, but this is the reason I avoid any organized religion, you guys are nuts. The "Freedom" of speech ends when you disrupt others, impend on their rights not to have the unwanted, and forced noise pollution, and the area awful to be in. This is not the proper way to preach. Sorry, your remarks are just silly and boarding on insane.
Bllackguard666 2 weeks ago
@Bllackguard666 MAD? Why should I be? I'm quite amused... I'm NOT the member of any Christian Sect, Religion or Political Party. I'm going to bet that you or the anti-Christs/Christians who commented belong to something-that in itself can be a Religion. I've tried a variety of those-even being an atheist-none of those worked for me! Please don't include me in "You Guys". I only go where I'm accepted, expose the fake Prosperity/Faith Healers, live moderately & don't ask for money...
kenstasia 1 week ago
@kenstasia Where you are wrong is on many accounts. Atheism is the absence of a claim, belief or faith in a fairytale. We wouldn't have to speak at all if the religious agenda was to control society and how people choose to love, make love, what they do to their own bodies, what rules to follow, based on something not everyone accepts. If you are not religious, then why are you in such an uproar?
Bllackguard666 1 week ago
@Bllackguard666 SO THEN, even WITHOUT GOD/BIBLE-there are RULES! And it takes a "kind of Faith" NOT to Believe in God!
kenstasia 6 days ago
@kenstasia you have tried the 'religion' of atheism?
quicksteps41 1 week ago
@quicksteps41 YES! Tried a few times! Also tried to be a Democrat/Liberal back in my day! To be either was horrid for me aaand...
kenstasia 6 days ago
@kenstasia since when is it a religion? there are no beliefs, no dogmas. atheists are simply looking at probability and conclude, that probably there is no god. not much of a religion there
quicksteps41 6 days ago
@Bllackguard666 What then, is the proper way to preach? Acts 4: 18And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 20For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. 21So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people:
kenstasia 1 week ago
@kenstasia As an atheist, I couldn't care less what your book tells you to do. On earth, there are ethics, morals, and those include laws and ordinances based on logical thinking and respect for others in public, especially. The "proper" way I think to preach your religion would be in the expensive churches you built. At a christian gathering, and not imposing on the general public who have a right (equal to yours) NOT to have to hear it and be interrupted and annoyed.
Bllackguard666 1 week ago
@Bllackguard666 There you go again again, including me with the OTHERS! I DON'T BUILD CHURCHES (buildings)! I DON'T ask for money! I don't go where I'm NOT welcome! I PRESUME I'm welome here because I'm DEFENDING PART of this video! It is YOU and the others who ARE NOT WELCOME & INFRINGING on this mans RIGHTS to post this! Doesn't your HUMANISTIC INTELLIGENCE tell you that? But, as a "CHRISTIAN"-I'm interested in your "INTELLECT"-to a DEGREE!
kenstasia 6 days ago
@kenstasia blah blah...blocked.
Bllackguard666 6 days ago
@Bllackguard666 WOW! It was you and others coming at me for a GENERAL COMMENT that I made that was directed at no-one! This is the TYPICAL TREATMENT I get from LIBERALS & ATHEISTS eventually! The subject here ISN'T WHETHER GOD EXISTS or NOT-but if this "preacher" is protected by the FIRST AMENDMENT! He is-and you're not! "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
kenstasia 4 days ago
@Bllackguard666 Your, "FREEDOM of SPEECH" is DISRUPTING this post...
kenstasia 6 days ago
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@kenstasia "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
kenstasia 4 days ago
@kenstasia ...cont: If you want to freely preach in public, forget it unless you obtain a license, permission, and do it so that it does not infringe on other peoples right to peace. The Constitution was NOT founded on religion, that is a myth many people claim, but is just not correct. I was based on freedom to worship as you will, not on worshiping. It was founded on democracy and freedom/liberty for all. Not just arrogant, religious freaktards.
Bllackguard666 2 weeks ago
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kenstasia 1 week ago
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@Bllackguard666 You say you believe in GOD-do you in Jesus Christ? And as with Acts 4, need I mention all of the Prophets, Apostles-and uh, what about Jesus? What of all those who were harassed, imprisoned and killed because they, "INFRINGED ON SOMEONES RIGHTS"! And what of the USA Founders/Forefathers? Religion?True Christianity is not a religion. But when used by USA Founders/Others it is mostly used to describe such. "Sorry, your remarks are just silly and boarding on insane." Quote You.
kenstasia 1 week ago
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@Bllackguard666 Do you ever read Bible or USA Founders? In tis case, "religion refers to non-Christians. Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
kenstasia 1 week ago
@Bllackguard666 "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
kenstasia 4 days ago
@kenstasia Many Americans did practice Christianity, but so also did many believe in deistic philosophy. Indeed, most of our influential Founding Fathers, although they respected the rights of other religionists, held to deism and Freemasonry tenets rather than to Christianity....cont
Bllackguard666 4 days ago
@kenstasia Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.....
Bllackguard666 4 days ago
@kenstasia Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." OWNED.
Bllackguard666 4 days ago
@kenstasia Its cool how you can found a country on a fairy tale
Zangelin 1 week ago 21
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Hmmm... if it didn't happen the USA wouldn't be here and neither would you! Lot's more like this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May, 1765...
kenstasia 1 week ago
@Zangelin I know, sad but true. Humanity at its best. : /
Bllackguard666 1 week ago
I love the irony that he says that he's preaching the word of love when his first words are "there is no life outside of the blood jesus christ shed for you!"
atherutistgeekzombie 2 weeks ago
I love how most religious preachers bail the second you start giving them a taste of their own medicine. They're not used to having Atheists stand up for themselves...and thats changing.
TheAnticAtheist 2 weeks ago
WHAT'S THE SENSE IN DISRESPECTING?. 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS & THEY WERE PEACEFUL! DARE YA TO TRY THAT WITH SOME RADICAL MUSLIMS OR MEXICAN DRUG CARTEL!
kenstasia 3 weeks ago
@kenstasia Sense? It's funny so deal with it.
djmaxxl 2 weeks ago
@kenstasia It's the 21st century, no one wants to hear this ignorant preacher's bible crap anyway.
TasteOfVengeance5 2 weeks ago
Haha, that was awesome. ^_^
MsHyde1 3 weeks ago
Hey Mike, I just picked up that book today! What a cowinkeedink! *LOL*
Nice job at running those douche bags off! :-)
TheBiblebyANAtheist 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from religiousantagonist
there needs to be more people like you. love your videos man
SwallowRazorz 3 weeks ago
fucking hilarious XD
matokaz 3 weeks ago
@joethemoproductions Your not going to stop a Christian by heckling him. Its an honor "Blessed are you when persecuted" Second they are simply following their biblical mandate "go and make disciples". What discourages a true blue Christian is when nobody listens to them. Besides that, just let them breath the air and speak their words. If you don't like it, just walk away, instead of grabbing a loudspeaker and acting like a 5 year old.
IcyVoid 3 weeks ago
@IcyVoid Shut up.
johnnysgotaproblem89 2 weeks ago
wow these exact guys came to my college....
TheGooseTavern 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from religiousantagonist
More please.
TheSecularnation 3 weeks ago
holy shit i would love to do that...now to get a magephone
devilisdutch 4 weeks ago
just subbed.
Good for you! I am so going to get my copy of the god delusion, get a mike, and quote dawkins next time i hear some idiot christians spouting off about their mythology. i usually try to debate them, but they like to argue. just preaching at them is pure brilliance.
I tried watching your apology to atheists, but i just don't think you owe anyone an apology. you're just playing by their rules, and that is smart.
joethemoproductions 4 weeks ago
"speech"
IcyVoid 4 weeks ago
Brilliant!
Ceevro 1 month ago
These men have every right to believe in any God they want to and the right to free speach as accorded to every American. You are a coward for heckling men who were not harming anyone. Seems to me you were being intolerant to them you hypocrite.
IcyVoid 1 month ago
@IcyVoid
the religious antagonist was exercising his right of free speech. if these people don't want to respect the public space and willfully disrupt other peoples' public space, then why shouldn't someone do the same? Seems to me that you are being intolerant to him you hypocrite.
joethemoproductions 4 weeks ago
If you don't believe in MY God, you are in need of redemption...
Excuse me, sir, what you're saying offends people.
Ugh, are you JUDGING ME? and being INTOLERANT?!
Olivia4448 1 month ago
I have to ask you an important question: Man is made in god's image, right? So, if man farts then god farts, right? So, what's to stop us from believing that god farted and blew the universes into existence? It makes perfect sense ie a perfect god who is "all powerful" did an "all powerful fart" in order to create. In knew there was an intelligent explanation.
99minerkc 1 month ago
They were just as antagonistic. There are ways to talk to people like you, to disarm you and enter into a discussion. There were some annoying street preachers at my college once which I tried to talk to, though not quite so antagonistically, lol. I disagreed with what they were saying and their approach. The preachers here were doing everything wrong the moment you approached. They put a bad name on Christians, lol.
tgbotg 1 month ago
Either this is a set up, or you have some serious steel balls.
MrTheBest247 1 month ago
I love how he says that he's preaching words of love and forgiveness and insults islam in the same breath
atherutistgeekzombie 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
I want to find a street preacher, dress up like a monk, and tell them the gospel of Talos.
BLARGHALT 1 month ago 2
@BLARGHALT
This is actually very amusing to think about.
"I do this for you... RED LEGIONS... FOR I LOVE YOU!!!"
GibLit1988 1 week ago
I want to see more of this. I am tired of Christians telling everyone else theyre going to hell, I thought God was the final judge, Not Christians claiming to follow Jesus. Why dont they let god do his job and they shut up and leave everyone else alone?
9tailedfoxgoddess 1 month ago
He's got fuckin balls!
atherutistgeekzombie 1 month ago
Make more like this!
Fringization 1 month ago
Dude if I were there I would oh high fived you XD
YourFace115 1 month ago
I love you.
shinryu1285 1 month ago in playlist More videos from religiousantagonist
@shinryu1285 YUK
99minerkc 3 weeks ago
"Isn't it far more moral to do good things for their own sake rather than as a way to suck up to god? Our true sense of right and wrong have NOTHING to do with religion. Morality is older than religion." -Richard Dawkins
dkthg 1 month ago
I am sure God has a special prize for you since you have decided to antagonize the few people who have enough courage to tell the truth.I was once like you and hated God but God showed me mercy and he will show you mercy too.
MrNewkingjames 1 month ago
@MrNewkingjames Enough courage?? in a so called christian country?
God should also have a special prize for the preechers sense they are standing there and judgeing people when its suppose to be his job.
if im not misstaken jesus also spoke against street preechers....
Danovio 1 month ago
@MrNewkingjames Bullshit. All of it.
mavs2147 3 weeks ago
These street preachers must be a big problem in America? - You'd be hard pushed to even find one either here or in the UK......... Nor even the ones, who approach you one on one, any more
It's a pity really, because I enjoy listening to ther futile attempts to justify this irration message in the presence of any reasonably informed and logical antagonist.
That they can't, is probably the reason they stopped doing it. Strange that they carry on believing it..That seems even more irrational to me!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim We can prove God exist because of the impossibility of the contrary. Without God it is impossible to prove anythingThe Atheist worldview is irrational and cannot consistently provide the preconditions for intelligible experience.Science, logic or morality.The Atheist worldview can allow for the laws of logic.The uniformity of nature. The ability for the mind to understand the universe and moral absolutes.We are just of bag of impersonal molecules in motion in your world view.
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "We can prove God exist because of the impossibility of the contrary"
Ha ha!! You need to work on your powers of reasoning !! What "contrary" Do you mean? Atheists believe different things. I even know of atheists who worship space aliens, or who don't accept scientific/ secular explanations which negate the source of YOUR "God"
The only thing they hold in common is a lack of belief in your particular superstition. Better explanations exist than those silly fairy tales!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "We can prove God exist because of the impossibility of the contrary"
Incidentally, your response to me here is a complete non sequitor. - A red herring!
My point was that you need logic to even define any "God". Therefore "it" is contingent on the laws of logic. Therefore, you cannot use him to explain the existence of or authorship of logic either. The same goes for science and the same goes for morality. The are HUMAN understanding . Intelligence is a biological process.
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim You are little confused here .The laws of logic are are immaterial universal abstract entities In your world view they don’t exist. The laws of logic are not man made . Can the universe exist and not exist at the same time and same place before human thinking came around?. If the laws of logic are man made then man can change them as well . A thieve can say this is my wallet and not my wallet at the same time .Sorry laws of logc are not man made .
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "You are little confused here .The laws of logic are are immaterial universal abstract entities In your world view they don’t exist"
Ha ha! I think it is you who are confused!! I have already said that logic is an observation of consistency. Human beings call this a law - No-one ever needed to "decree" these laws as an edict.
As I explained, even your "God" would need to conform to logical laws in order to exist. He cannot decide what they are!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Once again , Human minds did not event the laws of logic. If human minds made the laws of logic then Human minds can change the laws of logic .Can the universe exist and non exist at the same time and the same way before human thinking came along ?Can a thieve say this is my wallet and not my wallet at the same time and same place ?Once again we are made in the image of God . The laws of logic reflect the mind of God .If you have a law you have a law giver .
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Once again , Human minds did not event the laws of logic."
And once again, the "laws" of logic , are NOT even laws without a human mind to recognise a consistency and percieve them as such . They are simply "what is".
You're trying a very lame argument called the transcendental argument, most recently posited by a moron called Matt Slick., and you don't even seem to have HIS grasp of it- Lol!!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim I quess you can’t answer the question so here comes the Ad Hominem. Can the universe exist and non-exist at the same time and the same place before human thinking came along. Yes or no Toby. Dont be afraid to answer . You can send it in my personal box if you are afraid to answer it here . Have you seen the laws of logic can we purchase them ?Come on Toby dont be afraid to answer simple questions
.
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Can the universe exist and non-exist at the same time"
No it can't, and neither can "God" . BOTH must conform to the pre-existing "laws" of logic.......... I have no problem answering that- Why should you think I have?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Then Human mind did not come up with the Laws of logic . Thank you very much . Can a thieve say this is my wallet and not my wallet at the same time and same place and be correct ? If human minds made up the laws of logic then humans can change them we all think differently .Then there is no debate .
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
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@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Then Human mind did not come up with the Laws of logic"
No as I've already tried to explain, in a way ven a child could understnd, they are human recognition of what exists. They become laws because the human mind recognises them as such.
Come on! Make the effort!! - It's not rocket science. Human beings did not invent the law of non contradiction, any more than a "God" could have. It is simply what is.
If you disagree, prove otherwise?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "If human minds made up the laws of logic then humans can change them we all think differently .Then there is no debate "
My point has always been that no god did either. I explained up front that neither "God" nor man could have invented them.
If you think some mind did, that's where the debate is. Why have you been dodging it?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Why i said there is no debate because we can make up our own laws of logic .Exactly what you are doing . I ask you where the laws of logic come and you say They are simply "what is. , Let me ask you can you define truth in your world view ?
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "I ask you where the laws of logic come and you say They are simply "what is."
No....I said they are the human ability to RECOGNISE "what is" . You are very dishonest, or not too bright I'm afraid, because that makes all the difference I need to destroy your limp argument, and you don't seem to realise it!
So a good definition of truth, is what I'm using and you are not!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Once again please listen closely please , If the laws of logic are what the Human ability to RECOGNISE what is . Then Human mind can make up his own laws of logic . You Ad Hominem means nothing . Your abrituary nonsense means nothing making up truth as you go along .Once again what is truth in your world view .
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
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@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Let me ask you can you define truth in your world view ?"
A less flippant answer would be sometimes, and sometimes not. This is the same as anyone else regardless of their "world view".
Religious people just keep telling themselves that you have the truth because it's what you want it to be . You keep saying it even after you've been shown it isn't!
Do you think YOUR worldview can define the "truth" any better, If so, why does it rely so much on lies?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Why i said there is no debate because we can make up our own laws of logic"
Ha ha! No we can't - that explains the religious mind though, if you think we can!!
You guys try it all the time.
However, bottom line - You have tried to trap me by asking what I think the laws of logic are. I've told you many times. Why do you keep repeating the question instead of challenging my answer?
Is it because you can't? - Or are you using your ignorance to argue?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Are you saying the laws of logic are part of the universe ?
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
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@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Are you saying the laws of logic are part of the universe ?"
No you moron! - Lol!!
The laws of logic are human recognition of the universe!!
How many more times do I need to spell this out to you. I don't even get why you are labouring this point - It negates your god as the author of logical laws too.
He needs to conform to the same laws to be posited from oneh human mind to another - or even to be concieved by a mind
It is a poor argument for god!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 ". Have you seen the laws of logic can we purchase them ?Come on Toby dont be afraid to answer simple questions"
Ha ha! Oh dear!!..
I defined the laws of logic up front. I told you EXACTLY what they are so there would be no doubt. I also explained why they are neither concepts nor substance, and how they t transcend God" if they were either. It's a bit late for this kind of Matt Slick subterfuge
Why are you afraid of my answers?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim says (They are simply "what is").. There is simply God ?. How does that work for you . Now that is lame if anything is . Like i said you cant account for the laws of logic they are not simply what is . If there are simply what is . Then anyone can make up there own law of logic . A thieve can say hey this is my wallet and not my wallet . (That is simply what is ). I notice every comment you make is arbitrary.
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 " Like i said you cant account for the laws of logic they are not simply what is "
Ha ha! But I HAVE accounted for them many times and right from the outset!!
Can't you read? Or do you simply not understand the argument.
The laws of logic are simply what we call the recognised pattern of what we observe. The FACT that something can not be "A" and "not A" is an observation that we call a law . The LAW of gravity isn't a decree of a "lawgiver" either!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim said The laws of logic are simply what we call the recognised pattern of what we observe.I reject that statement once again . If they are a recognised pattern of what we observe . Everyone observe things differently . If human minds made it up to be a law , Then human minds can change the law . This is the point you are missing . Another thing why should the universe obey laws if there is no law giver ?
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "If human minds made it up to be a law , Then human minds can change the law "
Wow!! You really are not very bright, are you? Or is this a deliberate refusal to understand?
I explained why neither God nor man can make up the laws of logic - They are not inventions or decrees - They are how we understand what exists or might exist. Not what we make up!
I destroyed your silly argument in my very first response and you still don't understand how -lol!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Another thing why should the universe obey laws if there is no law giver ?"
Haha !! Do you think the universe has a mind to be obedient to commands. The universe simply "IS" - in exactly the way you want to believe "God" simply "IS" .
Both conform to the laws of logic as we observe them. No-one commands them...Least of all "God" . Being only conceptual in appearance, he need to conform to the laws of logic more!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Like i said you cant account for the laws of logic they are not simply what is"
OK - lets have some fun with your semantic misunderstandings and examine your argument here.
What ARE the laws of logic in YOUR worldview? And how do they argue for the existence of your particular mythical character ?.
Or any other "god" for that matter?
We have established they are not material, nor the invention of a mind. What are they?
I defined what I know them to be!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Lets have some more fun here . You deifne that the laws of logic are recognised pattern of what we observe.Then anything goes . It doesnt matter what anyone thinks according to you . To say they are thinking wrong violates your arbitrary definition of laws of logic .Wednesday sleep tuesday and pizza was lost . That is your silly explanation of the laws of logic .Anything goes .
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "You deifne that the laws of logic are recognised pattern of what we observe.Then anything goes" Not at all - I said it is a recognition of a pattern . Human beings have that ability as well as other higher life forms. However, if I read your badly made point. without our ability to ascribe patterns, the universe might well be a non descript mass of atoms. We use this pattern recognition also to describe a concept.
Look how anthropomorphic "God" is.
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Once again this Beggs the question . Wow this is silly your ABRITARTY NONSENSE IS SHOWING AGAIN . This is what you said Toby said it is a recognition of a pattern . Human beings have that ability . The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic.
We don’t form the Law of Logic from the observation, we instead confirm the pre-existing logical truth with our observation.
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 " The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic."
And YET AGAIN, it is our observation that makes them laws. We recognise consistencies and call them laws .
Our observation does not make the facts themselves true or false, Why are you having trouble understanding this??
In the same way, if you define an imagined entity you need to define it within this experience
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "To say they are thinking wrong violates your arbitrary definition of laws of logic"
My very point is that the laws of logic are not arbitrary to anyone - Not even "God" if he existed. It is nort possible - and I explained why repeatedly.
Why are you debating this if you can't understand the arguments?
Stupidity, deliberate or circumstantial, is not a valid argument.....Neither is ignorance
And neither is it MY arbirary definition- It is observable.
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "To say they are thinking wrong violates your arbitrary definition of laws of logic"
Let's cut to the chase and finally through this bullshit!
What point are you trying to make which I haven't destroyed six ways from Sunday already??
What do YOU think the laws of logic are? What do you think is they're source, contrary to what I've described??
What is your damn argument here?? Why is my description only MY concept and not your observation too?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim
We don’t form the Law of Logic from the observation, we instead confirm the pre-existing logical truth with our observation.
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
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@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "We don’t form the Law of Logic from the observation, we instead confirm the pre-existing logical truth with our observation"
Correct! - I have been saying that from the beginning! Now that we decided we agree - Make your damn argument so I can show you where you have got in wrong??!! AGAIN!!!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic".
You seem to be trying to muddy up an argument you've already lost, by wasting time on questions I've repeatedly answered from the very beginning.
So we have established that no known mind could be , nor needs to be, the author of these observed facts, we call the "laws of logic".
Now what is YOUR premise?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim a sea shell, for example, shell can reveal to us a Law of Logic. Observing that the shell does nothing but exist as we might then posit and formulate the Law of Identity.Then you might say that the Laws of Logic can be discovered from observations of matter.we can observe this physical reality.then we assign a logical absolute to the observation we just made. We assign something that is conceptual (and requires a mind) to our observation of matter. CONTINUE
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
TOBY But the mere fact that we made an observation and then assigned a logical absolute to that observation does not then ACCOUNT for the existence of all logical absolutes in the first place. The fact that our observations SUPPORT the PRE-existence of the logical absolute does not mean that our observation ESTABLISHES the Law of Logic. We don’t form the Law of Logic from the observation, we instead confirm the pre-existing logical truth with our observation.
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
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@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "But the mere fact that we made an observation and then assigned a logical absolute to that observation does not then ACCOUNT for the existence of all logical absolutes in the first place"
No.......and neither does anything else.
Nor do they necessarily require a mind. We base our concepts, even what we fantasize, (such as gods and other superstitions) on our inductive reasoning derived from the experience of what we observe as logical absolutes.
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Once again back to square one . Where do the laws of logic come from?absolute, unchangeable, internally consistent and transcendent simply because God Himself is absolute, unchangeable, internally consistent and transcendent. WITHOUT GOD THERE IS NO LAWS OF LOGIC .
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "WITHOUT GOD THERE IS NO LAWS OF LOGIC
Prove it? For example , is god capable of making a square circle? Or is he omnipotent enough to make an object so heavy that he can't lift it. Is he responsible for his own existence? After all, you are trying to present him as a logical possibility!
If he isn't logically possible, how can he exist?
Your whole argument is laughingly flawed!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Lets play your silly game . How do you know there cant be square circle tomorroow since you say logic is only based on observation, you've never observed a square circle,
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "you've never observed a square circle,"
Neither has anyone else! There is no such thing as a square circle because it would negate the very laws of logic which we BOTH acknowledge .
The law of non-contradiction for a start! Do I really need to explain this to you?
Now answer the REAL damn question you gutless weasel - Can "God's existence defy the laws of logic?
Can "God" exist and not exist all at the same time, or does his existence rely on logical absolutes?
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim God cannot do that which is illogical cause it's contrary to His nature. I'm saying that it's it's contrary to His nature and that's why it's impossible. Why cant there be a square circle in the future . If the laws of logic depend on observation . Can the Laws of logic change ?
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 " God cannot do that which is illogical cause it's contrary to His nature."
Exactly!! You are defining your "God" as something that HAS a nature. Ergo it conforms to the laws of logic. Having a describable nature he can not be both what he is and not what he is not, for example.
Nothing which can be described or understood by a logical mind can be it's own author.
I have been pointing out this flaw in your reasoning and you refuse to understand it!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim existence of logic, based upon God's existence, is indeed a necessary thing since it would be a "part" of God's own natural thought processes.It would then be something innate, natural, and ontologically necessary because God exists and is not contingent upon anything.Therefore, logic would not be a creation of God, but a necessary existence because God exists. God cannot lie and he cannot be irrational .
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@NJCHRISTIANMALE777 "Why cant there be a square circle in the future"
Are you serious?? Or are you sincerely this stupid? How can any object be both a square ( by definition, not a circle) and a circle (by definition, not a square) all , and at the same time. It contradicts all those logical absolutes, which silly Matt Slick subterfuged to describe what simply is
Why are you labouring this childishly irrational red herring? Do you expect a different answer from me at some point- lol!!
Tobytrim 1 month ago
@Tobytrim Once again how do you know that there cannot be a square cirlce tomorrow since you say LOGIC IS ONLY BASED ON OBSERVATION , you've never observed a square circle, but how do you know that that can't be? Answer the question . It shows you fallacy that logic is based on observation.
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago
@Tobytrim The bottom line You will stand infront of God one day The bible says the fool in his heart says there is no God psa14-1Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, You will stand before God in give account of everything you did in your life .Every word deed and thought . God will not be mocked . My prayer is you repent and surrender your life to Jesus BEFORE IT IS TO LATE
NJCHRISTIANMALE777 1 month ago