I've built AR15's since 1980. I've also built AK's, FN's, M1's and M1a's. For all of you idiots out there that think your going to have an advantage with direct impingement gas systems, ask yourself, why didn't the Nazi's design the STg44 that way? Why did the Russians copy the STg44 with the Ak47? Why did Eugene Stoner design his Stoner 63 the way he did?
Because it works. Don't be stupid, because stupid gets you a toe tag. Use the gas piston system and forget about it.
Im a BIG time AK guy....but...these piston AR's are really screwing with me, especially since I found out there doing 5.45's, I nearly creamed....gun porn
@sahmlockhart def someone who has never shot a gun before....the "Gasses" were simply there for animation purposes, you don't literally see plums of gasses in normal use.
I don't know. I don't think at this point in my life I push my carbines to the full extent of there capabilities any way but I like a good custom home built DI AR I have never had any problems with them other then a few bad mags. My good shooting buddy just got an m6 an has already ripped the rim off of two brass casings already and had a few double feeds(prob mag related). I'm just not sold.
"the big m4 myth" google it. I'm not fan of the piston punching a "floating" BCG above the center axis. I've heard a lot I good things about AA retrofits I just personally don't think the BCG, upper receiver, buffer system is designed for a piston. Ido own piston guns too.
@elox02 You've heard a lot of good things about the AA retrofits because they are good. :) Even manufacturers think so too like S&W, Mega, Christensen, Ferfrans, Huldra, Core15, and even Spikes at one point to name a few. I think the strength in the AA system is not necessarily the design, but the fact that they aren't keeping it to themselves. I still have DI ARs, but they don't see any range time anymore.
i think you guys should have a recoil comparison between carbine and mid-length gas impingement versus carbine and mid-length of the adam arms kit ar.
does the gas block have to sit so far forward for any functional reason or just to clear the handguard? how long does the piston/spring set up HAVE to be?
@taskforce437 The placement of the gas block is the same on the AA system as it is on any direct impingement AR. It uses the same gas port. The drive rod length is determined by the length of the gas system from pistol length to rifle length and everything in between.
Thats a pretty cool idea using a retrofit gas piston system but even that system has flaws. The piston block placed in front of the barrel adds weight to it which is the last place where you want your rifle to be heavy at. Its good that the major components in the weapon are un-effected and increased its life use on it but the piston block in front of the weapon suffers the same effects of carbon build up like your standard DI system and begins to over heat with reports of users burning fingers.
All systems have flaws and/or weak points. The AA kit adds only 0.2lbs to the rifle. The piston block does foul up, but it does not need the same attention as the BCG on a DI weapon along with being much easier to clean. Many people don't clean it at all. The gass block on both DI and GP rifles get hot enough to burn fingers in rapid fire. It's mostly due the friction of the bullet traveling down the barrel, pressure, and gas expansion along with a steel gas block which conducts the heat.
@skyungjae I totally agree with you and what i did notice about this piston system and i could be wrong is that i see a little more barrel rise while the operator is shooting compared to the DI system. But there is a time where you do have to clean the piston block and people do say it is as much of a chore to clean with your standered DI system on a AR. Although these piston weapons will do well with special operation forces who are without a dought the most hardiest of the troops out there.
A lot of people report less felt recoil with this particular system. Also, out of all the systems I have tried, this one is by far the easiest to clean. Push of a detent, a 1/4 turn and the drive rod and plug come right out. I did not like CMMG or LWRC. Cleaning was more difficult and time consuming simply just getting to the system. I clean all my guns top to bottom. Just a habit from my time in the Corps, and AA came on top over other manufacturers and DI in the cleaning department.
@SOA209 I'm actually thinking about trying out the Osprey w/ Failzero coating. I do have a couple of spare barrels, and that EXO coating is really nice. There will always be a place in my safe for my DI AR, but my piston ones just see more range time.
What they don't show is the carrier tilt from the piston drive that wears on the inside of the upper receiver and the front bottom end of the buffer tube. Inspect the buffer tube and you will see excessive wear where the carrier grinds away the aluminum. Given enough time it will wear away at ther buffer tube and start on the lower receiver. Also inspect the inside of the upper receiver and you will see excessive wear. Please inspect these areas.
@fffreddie Is this from personal experience or are you just believing in something someone else has posted on a forum? I have installed over 10 of these kits and have thousands of rounds through the two I still own. No tube wear with the one piece bolt carriers. Back when they only offered the impact key, I only saw tube wear on semi auto carriers, but not on full auto carriers. The issues you bring up only affected a few and were address years ago by pretty much every piston manufacturer.
@skyungjae I work at a nuclear facility and our security department was looking at acquiring a new weapon. They looked at the DI and piston systems. They decided to treat all the weapons as vital plant equipment. All the weapons/parts were x-rayed by our radiology department and the harmonics checked by our preventive maintenance department. The weapons were test fired by the security department at our range. To keep out bias our engineering group picked the weapon from the test results.
@fffreddie That's cool. I always appreciate real world field testing. When was this done? What piston AR's were used? Were they all retrofits or proprietary. Were the results only visible through x-ray? How many rounds were fired through each? Not all DI AR's are built to the same quality and the same applies to Piston ARs. Are the results published?
@skyungjae As I understand it many of the leading piston system manufacturers were used as well as conversion units. They were bought off the shelf so no special enhanced weapons would corrupt the tests. After the security department finished firing the weapons they were x-rayed and harmonics checked. All the weapons functioned flawlessly. A few of the PS showed some wear. The harmonics showed carrier tilt even though there was no visible evidence. The DI system was selected. I'm buying a Colt.
There is an issue with AR gas piston systems. If you look at the rifles designed for gas pistons, you will notice that the gas piston is attached to the bolt carrier. The AR15 gas pistons do not connect with the bolt carrier, but rather slams into it, and the AR15 bolt carrier was not deisgned to take impact like that. So many companys make gas piston AR's that break, just because one uses slightly better materials still does NOT mean the rifle is designed to take the high velocity battering.
@Southern661 I'm curious where you're getting your data from. First and foremost, not all piston designs are the same. There are piston systems where the gas key is replaced by a piston rod which eliminates any and all impact such as PWS. Failing bolt carriers is not an issue Adams Arms has had since they've included their redesigned one-piece carriers nearly two years ago. How about you try one out for yourself before assuming a problem one rifle has applies to all of them.
@oOBunnyackOo I live in CA, and I don't know if any shops sell it with a bullet button. I'd like to check it out. I watched the video for the TTR on Para's website. It uses a similar concept as an external, over the barrel piston. It's like an inverted version of the PWS system. Instead of the op rod going into a piston chamber, the gas tube goes into the op rod. They don't explain if the gas is actually going through the carrier. I'd love to get my hands on one.
Yeah, that's one reason why I have two of these systems. It's nice being able to pick and chose your own barrel and misc parts. I've had the CMMG one too, but this one came out on top in my book.
looks like it creates a pretty good smoke screen if you miss!
STKhero 2 months ago
...used in AK since 1947...=)
konstantin88181 2 months ago 2
Smart solution! Like it!
SAMFICOM 2 months ago
I've built AR15's since 1980. I've also built AK's, FN's, M1's and M1a's. For all of you idiots out there that think your going to have an advantage with direct impingement gas systems, ask yourself, why didn't the Nazi's design the STg44 that way? Why did the Russians copy the STg44 with the Ak47? Why did Eugene Stoner design his Stoner 63 the way he did?
Because it works. Don't be stupid, because stupid gets you a toe tag. Use the gas piston system and forget about it.
dogcatcher1957 2 months ago
Im a BIG time AK guy....but...these piston AR's are really screwing with me, especially since I found out there doing 5.45's, I nearly creamed....gun porn
two0sixTay 2 months ago
wouldnt this mess up the the accuracy of looking at the target down sight by the gases
sahmlockhart 2 months ago
@sahmlockhart def someone who has never shot a gun before....the "Gasses" were simply there for animation purposes, you don't literally see plums of gasses in normal use.
igotjuice007 1 month ago
I don't know. I don't think at this point in my life I push my carbines to the full extent of there capabilities any way but I like a good custom home built DI AR I have never had any problems with them other then a few bad mags. My good shooting buddy just got an m6 an has already ripped the rim off of two brass casings already and had a few double feeds(prob mag related). I'm just not sold.
elox02 2 months ago
"the big m4 myth" google it. I'm not fan of the piston punching a "floating" BCG above the center axis. I've heard a lot I good things about AA retrofits I just personally don't think the BCG, upper receiver, buffer system is designed for a piston. Ido own piston guns too.
elox02 2 months ago
@elox02 You've heard a lot of good things about the AA retrofits because they are good. :) Even manufacturers think so too like S&W, Mega, Christensen, Ferfrans, Huldra, Core15, and even Spikes at one point to name a few. I think the strength in the AA system is not necessarily the design, but the fact that they aren't keeping it to themselves. I still have DI ARs, but they don't see any range time anymore.
skyungjae 2 months ago
I would not use this to go to battle because of all that gas giving my position away.
MajorThrobbit 2 months ago
@MajorThrobbit i hope that's a joke
igotjuice007 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i think you guys should have a recoil comparison between carbine and mid-length gas impingement versus carbine and mid-length of the adam arms kit ar.
marktse 4 months ago
@taskforce437 the gas port has to be far enough forward so as not to have unsafe amounts of pressure on the piston and working parts
liamsdeely 6 months ago
thnx bro finally found a very helpful and awsome video.
resistancethis 6 months ago
does the gas block have to sit so far forward for any functional reason or just to clear the handguard? how long does the piston/spring set up HAVE to be?
taskforce437 7 months ago
@taskforce437 The placement of the gas block is the same on the AA system as it is on any direct impingement AR. It uses the same gas port. The drive rod length is determined by the length of the gas system from pistol length to rifle length and everything in between.
skyungjae 7 months ago
I got to use an ar with an adams arms piston and i worked flawlessly!
darkerego 9 months ago
does AA make a complete upper as well?
steelfury455 10 months ago
@steelfury455 They do make a variety of complete uppers that have pinned gas blocks.
skyungjae 10 months ago
Thats a pretty cool idea using a retrofit gas piston system but even that system has flaws. The piston block placed in front of the barrel adds weight to it which is the last place where you want your rifle to be heavy at. Its good that the major components in the weapon are un-effected and increased its life use on it but the piston block in front of the weapon suffers the same effects of carbon build up like your standard DI system and begins to over heat with reports of users burning fingers.
SOA209 10 months ago
All systems have flaws and/or weak points. The AA kit adds only 0.2lbs to the rifle. The piston block does foul up, but it does not need the same attention as the BCG on a DI weapon along with being much easier to clean. Many people don't clean it at all. The gass block on both DI and GP rifles get hot enough to burn fingers in rapid fire. It's mostly due the friction of the bullet traveling down the barrel, pressure, and gas expansion along with a steel gas block which conducts the heat.
skyungjae 10 months ago
@skyungjae I totally agree with you and what i did notice about this piston system and i could be wrong is that i see a little more barrel rise while the operator is shooting compared to the DI system. But there is a time where you do have to clean the piston block and people do say it is as much of a chore to clean with your standered DI system on a AR. Although these piston weapons will do well with special operation forces who are without a dought the most hardiest of the troops out there.
SOA209 10 months ago
A lot of people report less felt recoil with this particular system. Also, out of all the systems I have tried, this one is by far the easiest to clean. Push of a detent, a 1/4 turn and the drive rod and plug come right out. I did not like CMMG or LWRC. Cleaning was more difficult and time consuming simply just getting to the system. I clean all my guns top to bottom. Just a habit from my time in the Corps, and AA came on top over other manufacturers and DI in the cleaning department.
skyungjae 10 months ago
@SOA209 I'm actually thinking about trying out the Osprey w/ Failzero coating. I do have a couple of spare barrels, and that EXO coating is really nice. There will always be a place in my safe for my DI AR, but my piston ones just see more range time.
skyungjae 10 months ago
What they don't show is the carrier tilt from the piston drive that wears on the inside of the upper receiver and the front bottom end of the buffer tube. Inspect the buffer tube and you will see excessive wear where the carrier grinds away the aluminum. Given enough time it will wear away at ther buffer tube and start on the lower receiver. Also inspect the inside of the upper receiver and you will see excessive wear. Please inspect these areas.
fffreddie 11 months ago
@fffreddie Is this from personal experience or are you just believing in something someone else has posted on a forum? I have installed over 10 of these kits and have thousands of rounds through the two I still own. No tube wear with the one piece bolt carriers. Back when they only offered the impact key, I only saw tube wear on semi auto carriers, but not on full auto carriers. The issues you bring up only affected a few and were address years ago by pretty much every piston manufacturer.
skyungjae 11 months ago
@skyungjae I work at a nuclear facility and our security department was looking at acquiring a new weapon. They looked at the DI and piston systems. They decided to treat all the weapons as vital plant equipment. All the weapons/parts were x-rayed by our radiology department and the harmonics checked by our preventive maintenance department. The weapons were test fired by the security department at our range. To keep out bias our engineering group picked the weapon from the test results.
fffreddie 11 months ago
@fffreddie That's cool. I always appreciate real world field testing. When was this done? What piston AR's were used? Were they all retrofits or proprietary. Were the results only visible through x-ray? How many rounds were fired through each? Not all DI AR's are built to the same quality and the same applies to Piston ARs. Are the results published?
skyungjae 11 months ago
@skyungjae As I understand it many of the leading piston system manufacturers were used as well as conversion units. They were bought off the shelf so no special enhanced weapons would corrupt the tests. After the security department finished firing the weapons they were x-rayed and harmonics checked. All the weapons functioned flawlessly. A few of the PS showed some wear. The harmonics showed carrier tilt even though there was no visible evidence. The DI system was selected. I'm buying a Colt.
fffreddie 11 months ago
@fffreddie The Colt is definitely a fine rifle.
skyungjae 11 months ago
@skyungjae FYI the HK was also tested.
fffreddie 11 months ago
@fffreddie Well, it's nice to hear that they all functioned flawlessly. Thanks for the input.
skyungjae 11 months ago
I like how the video at the end is supposed to prove something.
ollieproductions1 11 months ago
There is an issue with AR gas piston systems. If you look at the rifles designed for gas pistons, you will notice that the gas piston is attached to the bolt carrier. The AR15 gas pistons do not connect with the bolt carrier, but rather slams into it, and the AR15 bolt carrier was not deisgned to take impact like that. So many companys make gas piston AR's that break, just because one uses slightly better materials still does NOT mean the rifle is designed to take the high velocity battering.
Southern661 1 year ago
@Southern661 I'm curious where you're getting your data from. First and foremost, not all piston designs are the same. There are piston systems where the gas key is replaced by a piston rod which eliminates any and all impact such as PWS. Failing bolt carriers is not an issue Adams Arms has had since they've included their redesigned one-piece carriers nearly two years ago. How about you try one out for yourself before assuming a problem one rifle has applies to all of them.
skyungjae 1 year ago
@oOBunnyackOo I live in CA, and I don't know if any shops sell it with a bullet button. I'd like to check it out. I watched the video for the TTR on Para's website. It uses a similar concept as an external, over the barrel piston. It's like an inverted version of the PWS system. Instead of the op rod going into a piston chamber, the gas tube goes into the op rod. They don't explain if the gas is actually going through the carrier. I'd love to get my hands on one.
skyungjae 1 year ago
Nothing wrong with DI system. My BCM works great. I'll stick with that. Nice vid though
datzitteezy 1 year ago
@datzitteezy
I was the same way until I owned one for myself. I still have one DI AR, but it doesn't see as much range time as my piston ARs.
skyungjae 1 year ago
what about carrier tilt?
tfoshohoe 1 year ago
nice music... looking forward to building my own rifle......
nakazatoGTR 1 year ago
@nakazatoGTR
Yeah, that's one reason why I have two of these systems. It's nice being able to pick and chose your own barrel and misc parts. I've had the CMMG one too, but this one came out on top in my book.
skyungjae 1 year ago
@skyungjae
mind if you send me a copy of the soundtrack? its great!!
nakazatoGTR 1 year ago
@skyungjae ever seen the PVAR by UDMC? i believe its filipino made, im not sure bout if they build uppers...
nakazatoGTR 1 year ago
@nakazatoGTR
Just checked out their website and some videos. Looks pretty cool.
skyungjae 1 year ago