wow...so this arnold murray guys is going to chalk it up to "common snese" and yet he is going to ramble on WHAT HE THINK instead of just shutting it up and giving book chapter and verse...point is he is rambling and can't give scriptures to back that up...cause it's false doctrine!!....This guy never gives scriptrue...amazing
I am searching for others in NC that study the truth with Shepherds Chapel. I am trying to form a group (or join one). respond and we can go from there:)
@TheAgapeOfChrist UMM you said read the book right. Perhaps you should read up a bit as well. Man was created in the 6 day creation. If you pay attention you will notice that Adam wasn't. He was created afterwards. THAT may be waht you're looking for in regards to your statement ("And Why aren't there any mention of any of the other people that were created in the Bible?") Try reading the first 2 chapters. Then you will have READ THE BOOK LOL the Bible impregnates it's self.
Arnold Murray is a false prophet. I hope that people will seriously do their research about who they are listening to. He misquotes the verse in ezekiel referring to the flying away to save souls. That verse is actually talking about pagan rituals that women used to try to ensnare men. I have seen this pastor threaten to shoot someone. I have seen him get rude and hateful with callers, thats not a Godly man. His serpent seed doctrine is FALSE, please read genesis 4.
@BooBoosKitten -- Study to show ourselves approved friend. You don't necessarily have to believe EVERYTHING a pastor says. We all just need to try and rightly divide the word. Some of his ideals confuse me a bit and seem unacceptable. But the man is genuine and authentically believes what he teaches. I simply pray to our Father to help me understand as much as possible to have a better realtionship with him. Peace 2 u.
@TheSidney1961 so its true u do beleve ur a lucky charm u sound like a fucktard to everyone in this world black white chinese matter of fact come down to saint louis ill be in th bus stop by the big bridge hard to miss its coverd with grafitti then we see wat you gonna do no more talking u got somthing to say told u my location meet me there well settle this u aint coming back tho so make up ur dam mind
@TheSidney1961 yea thats wat i thought poor guy to full of hatred over ur owne want to see wat im saying look all i asked is for you to stop hunting for bible religions and talking crap about them if u dnt beleve thats ur choise god gives us all freewill but why go hunting for trouble we do the same as everyone els does we have beleif like the muzlims budizm and everyone els its a free country if it wasent you would be a slave an so would we so just enjoy it dnt hate its just ignoreant
is very complexed to understand by me and others so i wanna no how u figured u exsist cuz u acting like u were just magicaly apeard by saying scumbag god u diss all gods in exsistance is wat u mean cause u seem to not really beleve u were created and somehow u made exsistance possible threw magic so explain to us were ur brain is rooting from cuz i dnt get the fucked up ness u are talken bout okay
@TheSidney1961 if this is so it means ur are not just an athiest but u beleve that u are just a lucky charm that grew in the middle of nowher under no ruler who created u tho science and knowledge could not prove how we exsist you dnt beleve in a book that dnt make sence and is beleved by the feeling taht a person gets in they heart im not gonna try liek everyone els to get u to beleve in anything i want you to wonder these questgens so u can figure it out for your self cuz ur knolegde
@TheSidney1961 yea u aint even got an argument do you u agsactly like i said ur remarks twards shit liek dis is because u dislike the fact that no one is under ur greedy control caused prolly by ur slf asteem or intelectual yet im prolly betting u smoke lot a dope that come from the ground technecaly making it alive as god intendion so u beleve u magicaly apeard witch god ru speaking about cuz u basicaly just dissed all religions pointing in a gods name
the bible isent fake the words of man corupted it its been rewrote over abillion times gosh its not like it wouldent change after all the times they revised it they should of left it how it was mayby if u ever actualy beleved in him in the first place rather then just trying to save ur owne ass u might not be so negative and looking for trouble with ppl dnt beleve no resone to hate thats ur owne dam choise to start trouble like a kid or a whiney girl is just ignoreant
@TheSidney1961 wdf u doen on a bible page u dnt read it this is wat we beleve thats why we watching this if u dnt beleve dnt even try to force ur belief cuz if i remember corectly the korean says the same thing so just stop with ur remarks ur violent words arent gonna change any belevers hearts beleve wat u want well do the same its selective u cnt control us we have our owne mind
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
How can anyone call Pastor Murray a liar ??? He teaches the Bible, literally chapter by chapter and verse by verse. You can follow along with him ... that is how I study. Now, if one does not agree with his teachings ... that is one thing. But to say that he lies ???
I have researched Arnold,Dennis and David Murray also Shepherd's Chapel for about 2 years. Mostly I've listened to his teaching from 6-12 hours a day. I can say with honesty that any negative thing you see on the internet is an outright lie! I went to church since 1988 until about 2 years ago and learned practically nothing about what God actually says in his word! I learned more in one month than in 18 years of getting "bible thumped". Passtor Murray is a wonderful teacher of God's Word.
i can't believe this pastor has anything to do with white supremacist, he knows what the word says that we should love one another and everyone that loveth is born of GOD, he that loveth not knoweth not GOD; he teaches this
i can't see him teaching the word of GOD and being in opposition to it. if a man say that he loves GOD and hateth his brother(mankind, fellow believer) he is a liar. I don't see him that way,He teaches the word with understanding thats important to me. let GOD be judge.
csat82414, Same thing with me. I spend alot of time thinking about what I want to tell you and then it won't take my comment. I guess we need to be running the show.
I don't think I'm doing any good trying to convince you that Arnold is one of the false teachers talked about in the Bible,so your gonna have to figure it out for yourself. I thot it was cool at first until I got a strong's and investigated for myself.The clue should be when someone has all the truth and condemns others because they don't I wouldn't get to serious with him.The more people he can draw away from the traditions that Paul taught the more Arnold will deceive.Paul would rebuke him.
OK csat82414, You are right. I really don't think I ever will find anyone who knows and teaches the way that he does. I've checked him out many times in my Strong's, but I've yet to bicker with him. And, I'm always impressed by hearing documentaries concerning bible and science on tv, and them tying in with what he has taught. You see, it's not just what he teaches, but I believe there's something special about him as a servant of God. He can be mean sometimes though. Blessings to you.
The bat creek stone inscription Arnold don't tell you about is on the Masonic temples newsletter. And the runestone was sent to Europe and proven it could not have been inscrited in the 1300's.These documentories were done in the 80's and have been proven fakes. Plus other people in Arnolds docs that say Hebrews were her in B.C. Were found to falsify other findings.Arnold says the kenites came to distort the word. Sounds like Arnolds teaching the kenite doctrine to me.
Did my other one go thru? What happens if it don't happen the way Arnold says.He seems so sure. Ezekiel 13:20 has nothing to do with the rapture whether you believe it or not."Forbid not the speaking in tongues" has nothing to do with speaking Spanish. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit not Jesus. I heard it because they believe all 3 are the same. Arnold says if your baptised in Jesus name it's the same as all 3. I know you've heard him say that. The footprint cast looks concave not convex.
I get a laugh every time he pulls out that footprint. I don't get him on that one, but it's got something to do with us (then angels) walking on the Earth in the first Earth Age. I have to tell you that he has NEVER said that Mary was conceived by Jesus ! Where in the world do you get that from ? He KNOWS the conception took place with the Holy Spirit. I know that you know what "speaking in tongues" is refering to, so what do you mean here ?
You calling me a liar? I heard it.And a lot of other rediculous statements. Do you think a murder can't ask God for for giveness and get it. Then King David didn't get it.Where doe he come up with his interpretation"A murder can't find forgiveness in the flesh" The subject there is hate compared to murder. Pauls talking about a prayer language that edifies oneself and no one else. And it was being abused.Why don't Arnold talk about Azusa St. there was an outpouring of the Spirit in early 1900's
Yes, a murderer CAN ask God for forgiveness, but not in the flesh.(for the "intentional" murders that were done out of pure evil)God tells us in the bible that they have to be sent to Him for judgement(as in capital punishment), wait until death, or during judgement at the end of the 1000 year reign. But yes, in some cases I'm sure God would forgive them, depending on what was in their heart and in their thoughts when they were committing the murder. He knows our thoughts and mind, as you know.
No, I would never call you a liar. But I do think somewhere along the way you misunderstood him. I watch his teachings thru a whole chapter at a time. I don't catch a program here and a program there, because that can be confusing to someone that hasn't heard him teach consecutively. I KNOW this from a family member of mine who has a satellite. She stays so confused on his teachings, and is ALWAYS saying something she heard him say that she completely misunderstood. But neither of you are lying.
I'm Gonna start recording from the big dish because they seem to let stupid stuff slip by on that.But even if you heard with your own ears you wouldn't believe it. I heard him say, without works you'll be naked as a jay bird in the millennium but now its in heaven. Which one did you here? You never answered my question if God created the earth in the 1st earth age then the angels or the angels then the earth? Do you go to church?
I try to answer all of them, but sometimes I run out of space. Naked as a jay bird in Heaven. It doesn't make it clear which was created 1st, I don't think, but my guess is that he may have created the universe before us, therefore the earth would be 1st. Do you know something different ? David killed him because he loved his wife. That's not really considered evil. I think it's romantic. He didn't just kill him for no reason as evil people do. I don't know about Azusa. No church for me.
It couldn't have been murder because it would go against Arnys teaching,and we just can't have that. If God created the universe first,then Elohim,God,would mean the plurality of God and not God and his angels. That would go against Arnys teaching.And we just can't have that.I heard Arny say the locusts are kenites and the 2000-1000 are deceived christians and churches.Can you find Azusa online? If you use Arny for Arnold you get more characters.Send that David responce you had to Arny for ?time
It WAS murder. Are you making fun of my beloved pastor? Well, I don't like it. David IS a kitten. He is precious. Remember, the meek will inherit the earth. God was speaking to his angels about putting them in flesh bodies, not creating the universe. Elohim was the "host" in God's presence at that time meaning the archangels and the angels/his children/our souls/us. I thought the locust were the 7000, maybe Kenites too. The Kenites can still be saved, but the 7000 are sentenced to die already.
Gen 1:1 is what"pastor"says is the first earth age creation,so if he created the earth or the universe first there were no angels to refer Elohim to them. Elohim would have to mean Father Son and Holy Spirit.If you hear Arnold say the locusts are different than Kenites let me know,because I have it recorded.I'll bet you David get's a hair transplant.He must feel pretty bad his big brother having a full head of hair and David losing his. I know how he feels. Does that mean were kenites if we are.
Gen 1:1 was the first earth age creation according to Arnold. If the angels weren't created yet, God in that verse which means Elohim would mean God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The "host" wasn't created yet. Or did the angels always exist?
I'm going to stand on God's Word, His Promises and His Truths for y'alls sake.
Putting words in my mouth again are you. I'm NOT threatening God, how foolish would that be. I'm Boldly standing on Gods Word and not choosing to take a mans ideas and interpertations over God (how foolish is someone that does trust man over God, they'll know in time).
And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; Ezek. 37.10 and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
But aren't you going to be gone long before this transpires 1HT?
"But aren't you going to be gone long before this transpires 1HT?"
Lizi, you have to remember what I think of opinions on Gods word, I don't think or lean to them. That's why I haven tried to tell y'all anything from the Bible other than outright read it for what it is scripture. If I told you what I thought, it'd be no different than Murray. I know what Gods word says about not trusting any man, i'll continue to follow God on that. If i'm deceived, Gods got some explaining to do.
That is a load of (something). We are supposed to share God's Word and Insight to help others, can't the Holy Spirit teach through you? I have tried time and again to have a conversation with you about the Bible. I did not ask for you to teach me the Bible, just talk open and honestly about scripture. Why would God have to explain anything to you? He uses his Children to teach and test. Thats pretty bold on your part to threaten God. But the Father does love his Children regardless.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; 2 Kgs. 2.11 and their enemies beheld them.
2Kings
2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Eli'jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
I do stand corrected, mostly in Rev he is talking to John with the come up hither.
Lizi, I don't take scripture the way you do, by murrays interpretation so it's useless to try to make me believe what you want me to. Sorry dear, I trust in God.
And that line about us thinking people who follow God instead of man are deceived... that's you attempting to define our beliefs for us again and putting words in our mouths again. I respect what you're trying to do in your studies. But you set yourself up as being superior, or immune to being deceived or misinterpreting something. Yet even if you pay no mind to man's teachings, you are a man yourself, and as capable of any other flesh man of being wrong.
As said before, if trusting God is going to get me deceived, then at least i'll be on Gods side. I don't lean unto my own understandings like y'all fdo. I take God at His word and don't try to make it something it isn't. Follow away sheep, your shepard Murray calls. If Murray wouldn't outright lie on certain things, his degree, and misinterpret the Bible
Follow away. Find out in time. I find it Very Strange that NEITHER of you mentioned anything about Murray NOT being y'alls God. I would have set someone straight rihgt away, 1st line. But no remark at all. Strange. And y'all think people who trust God over man are being deceived. Good luck and good bye.
That's because, if I can say this without sounding insulting, it was an absolutely ridiculous remark that as far as I'm concerned did not require or even deserve a response. Just based on your finding this strange, that pretty much confirms the fact that you made it for no other reason than to attempt to incite or start an argument. Besides that, I don't feel I have anything to prove to you. There's also the fact that you want to define our beliefs and "faults" for us, no matter what we say.
It's because i don't want you to believe what I tell you either. TRUST GOD not any man. Follow away. Simple. And to think i even spent this long caring enough to tell y'll to trust God instead of Murray. You get what you deserve for putting anyting before God. It's on you.
So you're now playing the part of judge and mind reader and heart knower as well. Only of course you'll say you're not. ONLY GOD knows where our hearts lie, whether we've put anything or the words of any man before Him. If we sin in this manner or another then God will surely correct us and we will surely need to repent. But who are you to convict us of sin based upon words in a VERY imperfect and erratic forum? I wonder if you believe that you sin.
So why don't you call it judging whem Murray calls Kenites tares. Isn't that judging, but it's ok when might Murray does it cause his word is golden right. My flesh and soul isn't ammuned to sin, just the Spirit of God in me is.
Well if you accept the fact that the tares are put here by Satan, that they are his children,that the Kenites are the sons of Cain, and that Cain's father was Satan, then I of course I don't call that judging. If he were to say that a Kenite can not be saved or that a tare is a tare with no chance at being saved, then yes that's judging. I wouldn't even consider all Kenites to be tares, and doubt if he does either, though I could be wrong.
And you've also said you don't agree with all that he says or teaches. Murray shouldn't even mention the Kenites, it's a racist statement to single out anyone, they had NO choice in what they were born, GOD did. Murray nor his bunch are no more special in Gods eyes than a Kenite, we were all made equal, and Jesus died for all. Anyone can be redeemed through accepting Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of their life. I'll choose to trust God with Christianity over what Murray is teaching!
You have to look at the original Hebrew and the meaning of the words with a Strong's Concordance. "Kenite" is Hebrew word 7017,which says a member of the tribe of Kajin. But it says it is patronymic, which refers to the father of the tribe, or these people, directing you to Hebrew word 7014, Qayin, which is Cain.
My Strong's says the same thing, but doesn''t say anything about the children of Cain. Moses father-in-law was called a kenite for the area he lived, but wasn't a child of Cain. Why isn't the other kenites mentioned in the Bible under the same conditions? Why doesn't the Bible say Satan uncovered Adam then Eves nakedness? Wouldn't the author of the first 5 books of the Bible use the same words for the same meaning. This tree thing seems a bit of a stretch.
More of a stretch than a snake telling Eve to bite an apple ? And it DID say satan uncovered they're nakedness, when it was over, they covered with fig leaves didn't they ? And if I'm remembering right, Moses father-in-law was a Kenite, and how do you know he wasn't of Kenite blood ? Maybe it was because of where he lived, I don't know for sure.
1HT ... Why was Moses not allowed to enter into the promise land with the rest of the Israelites? What did Moses do that earned him that punishment from God? What was the curse upon Moses's sister? What happened to Aaron's sons who were Levitical Priests?
Do you not know the all mighty power of Jesus Crist blood and resurrection. You may want to study on it more. He and He alone is why any of us have a chance to be saved. Not our doings. Only a truely born again person would love Jesus, for who He is and what He's done for them.
I give up trying to have a conversation with you 1HT. You did not answer my question, just the same old tirade thats been going on for a month beating me with stuff I already know. IF CHRIST COMES TO TAKE HIS FOLLOWERS AWAY, THEN RETURNS TO EARTH AGAIN TO REIGN IN THE MILLENNIUM THATS THREE ADVENTS, NOT TWO!!! WHERE IS SCRIPTURE FOR THAT MIDDLE ADVENT? #1 Christ comes meekly riding an ass. #2 Christ returns with a rod of iron riding a white horse to wage war, reap the harvest, etc.
Yes darling, Christ comes to Earth, feet on earth, twice. You are correct. I don't want you to believe what I would tell you, that would only mean that you flip flopped from one man beliefs to anothers . Believe Gods whole word. Not any mans interpretation. You've got brain clog from all of Murrays junk he's poluting you with. The Bible can better be understood when being read with ones(Christians) pure heart, where God's Spirit resides. Ones, others, minds can and will be deceived by satan.
Arrogance, vanity, self-righteousness, pompus, snide, rude, conceited, haughty, egotistical, supercilious, condescending, overconfident, prideful: have you heard these words from others? I am not a sycophant, but I clearly see that me being a woman limits my ability to think, read or understand "in your opinion". Wow, would I be allowed to even speak in your chruch?
Murray's ways at it's best when someone disagrees with his or his followers teachings. I'm not sorry that I don't think of Murray as GOD as some people do. Certainly not those false teachings that you've been trying to pass off on me you wouldn't.
So you disregard the opinions and observations of fellow christians and see them as invalid due to whom they study with or under? I believe you're a committed christian, but there's still a very evident tone of "well I'm just better than you" to your posts. Who I study with or who's beliefs I agree with really don't have anything to do with it. It's simply taking in what you have to say.
Old saying, they can dish it but they can't take it. And the bad thing is it's all there in the Bible, but Murrays word rules in your eyes. You're setting your self up for a fall. Your ability to trust God over man is the problem. All I can say is Good Luck to you.
Thank you,finally. Give up on any mans words and stick with Gods and you want ever be deceived! Believing a man will surely head you into deception. I find it real strang that all i'm telling you to do is to trust God alone, and you seem to have a problem with that. Unbelieveable! If I were doing as y'all are, and tring to make one believe another mans ideas about the Bible, I could truely understand, but i'm saying Trust God alone, and it doesn't compute with y'all. Very Strange!
Christianity isn't gotten through, or cannot be gotten because of any group, church... It's an individule status. Did you have a choice in the matter of what race, sex, or time when you were born, God isn't going to punish anyone for that, including the Kenites so much talked down on by Murray (another dead give away on him). What will save one eternally or cause one to perish eternally is the acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ, and only that. Remember what God thinks of our righteousnesses
The reason I believe a lot of christians who disagree with some of my beliefs are probably taught incorrectly is because I KNOW I was taught incorrectly when I believed the same things. Look at the condition of the churches in Revelation 2 and 3 as spoken by Jesus. Out of 7 churches, 5 had something wrong with them! That's not a good ratio. And the 2 that Christ found no fault with had one thing in common, and that is they recognized those who were of the synagouge of Satan.
That's still your opinion. You've got to get away from that and stick to Gods word, not a mans theories.
And yet you leave out the importance of what is said to all of the churches. check em out again and find out what is said towards the end of each of their letters. Take it all or none.
Yes, but you have to realize that they also have to meet the conditions set forth by God to claim that. Like the church of the Laodiceans. If they repent and get back right with God,then they receive what is said at the end. If they do not, they are spewed out of His mouth.
My point exactly, don't count anyone out, Kenite included. It's not for any man to judge weather someone is a Christian (we know God said Whosoever). What is the only way anyone can ever be in right standing with God, through Jesus Christ alone. Jesus alone reconciles us with God, not our righteous acts, which for alot it's just that, acting. There's hope for all, and a promise from God, Whosoever, and it's not limited by any means.
I freely admit Murray may be wrong on some things. He is after all, human as well. I also freely admit he says things that I either still can't quite see where he's coming from. In those instances I sometimes match up what he's saying with what I believe God is saying in other places, because God is consistent and never changes throughout the Word. Personally, for me he checks out on most everything. But I still try to separate him and his teachings from me, so that I do not blindly follow.
That's a problem for me. If I know someone is wrong on something out of Gods word, using Gods word to test it, so long. I'm not having part in that person's deception. Oh, well, it's like i've said, at least you're Christians and that's what matters. If i've offended any, it wasn't meant to do, as I was (as always) only defending Gods word, which should alway be taken in context and completely given.
Again, I understand. The reason I said believe is simply because we still disagree about what Murray is teaching. But you could be wrong on him, as could I. Time will tell and really God only knows completely.
When he's NOT teaching Gods word fully, correctly, out of context, HE IS WRONG! I'm trusting God, so if i'm wrong, i'm wrong with God. When you lean to your own or others understanding, that makes you wrong and able to be deceived. I'm trusting God for a reason, because He says to. I don't have a problem with that, or don't even want to stray out from under His truth. You are so right, time will certainly tell, Come Quickly Lord Jesus! This world needs your help and don't even realize it.
See, unlike you 1HT, I have cared about God and His Word for a long time. Oh, I have been FAR from perfect, and I have at times in life been far from faithful in study and other areas of my life. But I grew up going to church and believing at an early age. I grew up believing Adam and Eve ate an apple. I grew up believing in a rapture. I even grew up believing, or fearing, that I could "accidentally" recieve the mark of the beast.
So why do you so easily sterotype people who don't follow your way of thinking. It's not the doctrines that a perso follows that makes them a Cristian. It's their trust, belief, faith, acceptance of Jesus Christ as their saviou. Not what church, race, breed... WHOSOEVER is the greatest thing and we as Christians should be spreading that like a wild fire out of control. Instad most try to control WHOSOEVER! What make you think you're right now. Unbias testing agaist Gods word is the way to know!
Not a follower of Murray. Because I read Gods word and take it for what it says and not a mans opinion, y'all think non followers of Murray are being taught wrong. If i'm being taught wrong, you're saying Gods wrong. I take God at His word, trusting He will take care of the rest. It's called Faith for a reason. I take no offense to anything anyone says to me. Like i've said, if God be for me, who can be against me., and greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. Thank you Jesus!
I'm curently seeking a non-denominational group of people to fellowship, praise & worship God with, but for now it me and my family. The group i'm seeking requires a move, which is why my house is for sale.
When I became a Christian I dove in and saturated myself with Gods word. He turned my world upside down from what I was. So much so that I despist the person I was and the things I did, I know Pauls pain well. Going to Churches doesn't make a person a Christian, my rest is in Jesus.
Well I agree going to church does not make a person a christian. I was just wondering in regards to the statement about being taught incorrectly. If you believe in a rapture as it is commonly taught and believe in it because that's what you see in the Word, well, I still disagree because I don't see it, but I will give you credit for coming to that through your own study and not a church's teachings.
All people will never, until changed, be in agreement. You have to trust God and God alone, not even ones own thought or ideas because that's how satan tempt us, our own minds, which needs to be renewed by Gods word. I believ God on His word, not theories, simple. And by doing just that, one will be best off.
Well stated 1HT. My experience is similar. I was of the flesh, but always believed in Christ, but was one sinful little child. It was Christ who never let go of me, which is awesome in itself, for why do I deserve such love?
None of us do. Every human, other than Jesus , deserves the Lake of fire. The Bible says all our righteousness are as filthy rags. That's all out goodness that we TRY to do. God looks at them as the bloody, puss filled, scabbed up rags that came off of a lepers sores. That's our goodness, so don't even think anyones religious acts will do them any good, Jesus alone can reconcile one with God.
So why do the children of the rapture doctrine believe they are too good for tribulation and get to be spared that part of future history by being transfigured out?
It's not that people that take God at His word, over a mans theory, think they are too good for anything. The Bible says there is NONE that is good, not one. But Jesus is perfect, He has redeemed us. Because multiple things can happen at the same time you know. You are limiting the ability of your mind to be able to be renewed by being force fed a mans theories, and worst yet, trusting and beliving him.
No IHT...it is you sterotyping students of Pastor Murrays Bible Study. Just because you dont like him. I adore him because he does not play with the Word of God...it is verse by verse, chapter by chapter...with languages, geology, history, science, math included. I let God do the judging. I prayed for a teacher and I got Pastor Murray. Must you kick against a fellow Christian who's prayers was answered thus.
Well he needs to learn to teach all the verses on a subject. Especially when GODS very own statement is being left out. Not kicking anyone, just defending Gods word. Take that up with God.
I don't want you to listen to me on Bible matters, or any man for that matter. That's how one is eaisly deceived. Trust Gods word only, not a mans theories. If I were telling you anything different you would have reason to doubt me. Y'all on the other hand have been trying to prove to me things using Murrays ideas & theories. I'm not falling for it. Go with Gods word, and not your own or others understanding and you will be fine. Slip up and go against that and deception will creep up on you.
Because you are seeing that Murray has people believing what he wants them to. He leaves out scripture when it's convenient to fit his doctrin. Just as RVY NOW knows how to rightly devide the Word, but doesn't NOW know how to finish scriture. Look at what a man is trying to make you believe and yet leave out what GOD cleary says. You're correct, all points are mute between us. I go with what Gods word says, others take mans opinion on the Bible. Follow away little sheep.
Quit judging! I am taking offense for being treated like I am an airhead that has no ability to read and understand Gods word using her own intelect. It is too a point whereby you are thick headed and whinny. All your other friends are wrong too for stepping away from you...you are the only one right...hello....step back and think about it.
There's that Murray spirit. I've already told you but you don't seem to understand Gods clear word, I'm simply doing what the Bible says to do, testing all things against Gods word. If that offends you then your tantrum isn't with me. Gods word will never give way to anyone's opinion. As stated in the past, it's not judging if it's a fact. I'm sorry your teacher won't tell the truth about where/if he got his DR. title from. I stepped away from their wrongfully Bible teachings. God, not man!
Here's the problem. In some of your responses, YOUR spirit comes across as haughty, arrogant, and "holier than thou". You say everything exactly right. Yet when asked politely to show one verse, one biblical thought or phrase that proves a pretrib rapture, you said once you don't have to prove anything, and ignored the second comment/request. Yet in so doing, what you proved is that you follow MAN's interpretations of the "rapture", something you claim you do not do.
"Holier than thou", without Jesus No one is holy! If you're taking it that way than you have the problem. Jesus was blunt and to the point with those that tried to come up against Him, they didn't like it either. As for as verses go, i'm not trying to make anyone believe a particular doctrin, just believe Gods word over mans opinions, theories. I've told you time and again, I follow Gods word, not mans. So how can I possibly be deceived. But you openly say you believe mans theories. Truth told!
A wise person and a wise christian at least stops and looks and examines themselves when two or more fellow christians see a problem. But you probably dismiss us because of our "Murrayitis" in your mind. Here's the thing... you're not Jesus and we're not the Pharisees.Unless of course you believe you're perfect and incapable of having a flaw. And I said I DID rely on man's theories until I learned to divide the Word. So YOU'RE dealing in half and outdated truths.
Is there any. The truely wise trust God only. How many Christians truely do. I simply put it up against Gods word. Nothing else. I don't dismiss anyone, because I realize it's not through what one does, but through the acceptance of what Jesus Christ has done, that Whosoever can be saved. Kenite included. Whosoever is not limited to 144,000 you know. The Spirit of God that lives in me, has been made perfect through my acceptance of Jesus. So you've stopped believing Murrays theories as of now!
I'm simply dealing with what you've openly said. I can only go by that. Just because you say you rightly devide the word, should I believe you. I know what Gods word says. + it's rightly dividing the word of truth!
And there YOUR half and outdated truths that are being delt. I really can't see what's so hard about following Gods word. Man will lie, God doesn't. Why would Anyone want to trust a man over God. Y'all don't like it when someone doesn't play along with y'alls theories at all.
No, in all honesty what I don't care for is your insistence and claim that we blindly follow theories and not God at His Word. You and I, and you and Lizi have disagreements over the Word and what it says. Has my thinking been influenced by Murray's teachings? I'm sure it has. But that's because I found the teachings and my biblical beliefs from before to be false.
I totally undestand that, totally. Long ago, teenage years, my parents had us in a CULT. A church that believed they, and they alone, were the one and only true church. I wasn't in it by choice, and didn't know Jesus then, but I disagreed with it. WHOSOEVER means that! CULTS make one believe otherwise. (The bold isn't directed to you, it's my discust for anything that goes against Gods word. If God wouldn't have changed my heart, we wouldn't be speaking, because I wouldn't have cared about any1.
1HT- And yet in all your vast understanding of God's Word, you cling to the hope of flying away so you dont have to stand against Anti-Christ among God's Elect. Why would one refuse to Champion Christ or the Word in a time when it is needed most? I am not a lost soul, yet you rail against me and kick at me. When you plant a seed it does't not mean you plant it in the pack and shopping bag (baggage) it came with also. Just one little seed of truth that God will produce into hope for a lost soul.
I cling to the Cross of Jesus Christ, all else will work out reguardless of what one thinks. Jesus alone is my savior. I'm not trusting in anything that I can do. That's called self-righteousness, wich will get one into hell, but never Heaven! I've given you the best seed anyone could ever need, Trust God, Not man. If you would only let it grow you would see the results.
You're doing fine Lizi. You have the right idea in saying it's a moot point. I think it's best if we both, even all 3 step away, since we all claim to be christians and Satan has probably already had some good chuckles out of what has turned into bickering. I'm glad to see you stand up for yourself as a woman of God and am glad to see that you have gotten some of the same spiritual food I have from Murray's teachings. Take care and God bless.
hahahaha - God and the whole Host have probably had some chuckles from we children. But at least our Father knows we care and love him. Thank you RVY for your kind words, and yes standing up for myself and having a strong opinion is not an issue for me (hehe). But being gentle with other Christians is hard sometimes as we are all judged, in society, by the few. But the seeds are easily sown :) I dont mean as a man pleaser, but care giver. Didn't want 1HT to step into that hole!
You mean standing up for a mans theories. If you were standing up for Gods true word instead you would be better off. The only holes you shoud watch out for are the ones in Murray theories. Why is it he Never mentions the rest of the story when quoting Ezk.13 on his anti-rapture theory. The whole story, the way God said it, had it written and intended for it to be taught. Because God "delivers" those very people that Murray claims are being deceived by the Anti-christ, and Murrays theory is shot
You 2 are like a little tag team duo. I bet satan love it when Murray tells people it wouldn't matter if they got the mark tattooed on them also. Spiritual food, you mean belief in a mans theories. Don't try to claim something off as spiritual when it isn't purely Biblical, only partial. Satan loves half truths, he tried it on Jesus when tring to temtp Him. Quoting partial scripture to try to deceive with.
The point is I'm sure Satan enjoys seeing members of God's family rip and tear into one another. Which should we be doing, fight Satan or fight each other? Can a house divided against itself stand? You took a post meant as encouragement and kind words from a christian brother to a christian sister and used it as an opportunity to attack us. You say you're a christian. I'm asking you, one to another, LET IT GO. It is doing no good, and in fact doing harm if anything.
You want to know what is doing harm! Wrongful teaching of Gods Word, teaching partial scripture, taking scriptue out of context. And I will never stand by and let that go. You, like satan, would love for me to let it go. You want your way and to be right. Someone isn't going to let Gods Word, the only truth about the Bible, be twisted and you can't handle it.
You say you know the Bible but won't even admit to what it cleary says, what verses are being left out of Murray's teachings, your beliefs. Gods word is there for all to see, yet things get left out of Murrays teachings (someone who claims to teach vs. by vs. none the less). I guess he just forgot to finish up Ezk.13: right. Divide vs.21-23 also if you want to be 100% truthful. I'm not ripping anything but what goes against Gods word. If you take offense, go to Gods word on the matter that does.
I HAVE heard him include those verses with my own two ears. On MORE than one occasion. Just because it wasn't mentioned here, or just because you haven't heard him do so, does not mean your claims are true. I really don't know what else to say in regard to that point right now, especially since we're talking all over the place as it is.
MY POINT EXACTLY! Why doesn't he ALWAYS include Gods words on that subject! God put them there for a good reason, to be told when teaching on those passages! Partial scripture teaching on a message from the Bible can be misleading. The whole subject on the matter will not. Murray bases one of his major theories on those scripture, but doesn't include all of them, especially GODS OWN STATEMENT, everytime he teaches on it. I find that really strange.
Well, maybe it does seem strange if you hear that. The thing is, only the man himself can adequately answer that. But I will say, I think if he's teaching on a very PARTICULAR subject, then perhaps he leaves those verses out if he doesn't think they are necessary to a certain aspect of the subject. If he believes those verses describe a rapture like deception and believes it shows God is against it, and that's the only point he's trying to make, then that's all he addresses.
What a joke. Unbelievable! What a blatant disreguard for Gods word, by a man who prides himself on teaching vs. by vs. but can't go 3 more verses on a subject, ALL the time, to show what God says. I think it's because he's trying to make it something that it isn't and if he continued, God deliveres those that he claims are being deceived by the A-c. Whole truth, or holes, it's there to be read. I can't see how people defend his stuff, unreal!
Well, we disagree then. But I will say, you do realize he does verse by verse book studies, and then topical studies where he draws selected verses from several different places, right? The thing is though, if the supposition is that God is against the rapture theory and those verses show it, the fact that God delivers those deceived by it does not blow holes in the supposition that He's against flying away to save your soul. Why do you think that? Honest question
1st off the scriptur doesn't say flying away. And Murray always makes his statement about people who believe they will fly awar for their salvation. Gods word doesn't say that at all, but he continues to interpret it wrongly. When you add or take a way the slightest bit,(as satan tried on Jesus) most don't catch it. Gods word shouldn't be changed at all! The best Murray could do is to read the Bible to people and never put in his own words, just keep reading Gods wors. When his opinion enters...
No, it doesn't, which is something to at least consider. But it does say hunt souls to make them fly. How would you then interpret souls being made to fly? And I understand the last part. But the thing is, he would not be a teacher, good or bad, real or fake, without ANY commentary. And God does appoint teachers of His Word. Anyone can read the bible, but not everyone understands. Though I do believe if one asks God, He will provide that understanding.
A human cannot fly, who would even think such a thing. You're listing to a man and believing him. Which we know what Gods word says on that, and yet you insist on it anyway. All I can tell you is God can be trusted, man cannot. Your choice pal. Make it carefully. Then why would you or anyone need a teacher if you know God will give us understanding if we want or need or ask for it? Makes no sense why you choose to follow a man, especially one you said you don't fully agree with. UNREAL!
Yes, by way of a plane. Jesus didn't take a plane to get to Heaven. Childish little word games by you and taking a statement out of context, why am I not supprised, it's what you've been taught by a man to do. Sad.
Back to the fly part. Jesus had NO problem ascending into Heaven. What, God can't do the same mirical again, on a larger scale. Y'all don't know the true power of God. But how could one when they choose mans words ove Gods. I actually feel sorry that y'all are limiting yourselves because of Murray. Just reading the Bible would at least make hima a CORRECT teacher. His own opinion is just that, especially when it's leaving out important vs. or contadicting Gods word Claiming to mean something.
You can count on one hand the ones God transfigured in flesh: Christ, Enoch, Moses, Elijah. What makes you so special that you are getting transfigured away from tribulation and others are not? Our flesh dies and we step out, just like everybody else. God appointed it to man to die but one time. Something he himself would do. Moses and Elijah will likely die in the street of Jerusalem by anit-christ because they are the two witnesses that God sends.
What makes any Christian special, Jesus Christ. And who does Murray claim he and his followers to be. Isn't that special! You just throw out some of Gods words, (1 Cor.15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all "sleep", but we shall all be changed,) And we all know vs.52. Not All Shall Sleep! God's Word, not mans ideas. And look at what the 2 witnesses are told, (Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud;) But I guess they think they are going to Fly Away also!
I am sorry...its is John who is told to come up hither by an Angel in his dream. And know many wont ever sleep, just step out of their flesh to meet Christ at his return on Mt. Zion, the same place he ascended will he descend. The witnesses die, it is important that they die and lay in the street for 3 days before they resurrect.
Rev.11:11,12 CLEARLY SAYS...11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And you are trying to tell me what Gods word says. Do you really think people are that blind!! UNBELIEVABLE!!! You need to be sorry for trying to deceive!
Indeed. Just as when Christ returned for a time after His Resurrection and the graves literally opened and people stepped out. It was a one time occurrence to show Christ reigned over the power of the grave. That does not mean that will happen again, as some people believe. The situation with the witnesses is another "type" of sorts, although after the fact, of Christ's resurrection. When it happens, people will realize their mistake in worshipping their "god".
Hi RVY13088...I am quite tired of being told Pastor Murray is my god and that I dont have a brain cell to read and study on my own. 1HT is not here to study the Bible, but as a hater of Pastor Murray only. Over the course of almost 2 months he has failed to answer or discuss any other Biblical history other than the small sections of the Bible he does know. All of God'w Word is important for it tells a complete history and leaves little room for misunderstanding on our part :) Good Luck
Trust God NOT man is all you need to know. But you'd rather trust Murrays ideas. Well you'll find out in time. I hope when you're in the line for the mark that Murray will atleast be in front of you.
wow...so this arnold murray guys is going to chalk it up to "common snese" and yet he is going to ramble on WHAT HE THINK instead of just shutting it up and giving book chapter and verse...point is he is rambling and can't give scriptures to back that up...cause it's false doctrine!!....This guy never gives scriptrue...amazing
EdenChurchofChrist 6 months ago
pray that my prayers come true plzz im loseing faith
alphamalemindreaper 11 months ago
I am searching for others in NC that study the truth with Shepherds Chapel. I am trying to form a group (or join one). respond and we can go from there:)
whickerwoodwork 1 year ago
This is the best teacher on TV. Rev. Michael O. Williams
bendeciones 1 year ago
@TheSidney1961 He lives in your heart friend... try looking in there sometime :) peace
stashbox1000 1 year ago
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@TheAgapeOfChrist UMM you said read the book right. Perhaps you should read up a bit as well. Man was created in the 6 day creation. If you pay attention you will notice that Adam wasn't. He was created afterwards. THAT may be waht you're looking for in regards to your statement ("And Why aren't there any mention of any of the other people that were created in the Bible?") Try reading the first 2 chapters. Then you will have READ THE BOOK LOL the Bible impregnates it's self.
stashbox1000 1 year ago
Arnold Murray is a false prophet. I hope that people will seriously do their research about who they are listening to. He misquotes the verse in ezekiel referring to the flying away to save souls. That verse is actually talking about pagan rituals that women used to try to ensnare men. I have seen this pastor threaten to shoot someone. I have seen him get rude and hateful with callers, thats not a Godly man. His serpent seed doctrine is FALSE, please read genesis 4.
BooBoosKitten 1 year ago
@BooBoosKitten -- Study to show ourselves approved friend. You don't necessarily have to believe EVERYTHING a pastor says. We all just need to try and rightly divide the word. Some of his ideals confuse me a bit and seem unacceptable. But the man is genuine and authentically believes what he teaches. I simply pray to our Father to help me understand as much as possible to have a better realtionship with him. Peace 2 u.
stashbox1000 1 year ago
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BooBoosKitten 1 year ago
@TheSidney1961 so its true u do beleve ur a lucky charm u sound like a fucktard to everyone in this world black white chinese matter of fact come down to saint louis ill be in th bus stop by the big bridge hard to miss its coverd with grafitti then we see wat you gonna do no more talking u got somthing to say told u my location meet me there well settle this u aint coming back tho so make up ur dam mind
alphamalemindreaper 1 year ago
@TheSidney1961 yea thats wat i thought poor guy to full of hatred over ur owne want to see wat im saying look all i asked is for you to stop hunting for bible religions and talking crap about them if u dnt beleve thats ur choise god gives us all freewill but why go hunting for trouble we do the same as everyone els does we have beleif like the muzlims budizm and everyone els its a free country if it wasent you would be a slave an so would we so just enjoy it dnt hate its just ignoreant
alphamalemindreaper 1 year ago
is very complexed to understand by me and others so i wanna no how u figured u exsist cuz u acting like u were just magicaly apeard by saying scumbag god u diss all gods in exsistance is wat u mean cause u seem to not really beleve u were created and somehow u made exsistance possible threw magic so explain to us were ur brain is rooting from cuz i dnt get the fucked up ness u are talken bout okay
alphamalemindreaper 1 year ago
@TheSidney1961 if this is so it means ur are not just an athiest but u beleve that u are just a lucky charm that grew in the middle of nowher under no ruler who created u tho science and knowledge could not prove how we exsist you dnt beleve in a book that dnt make sence and is beleved by the feeling taht a person gets in they heart im not gonna try liek everyone els to get u to beleve in anything i want you to wonder these questgens so u can figure it out for your self cuz ur knolegde
alphamalemindreaper 1 year ago
@TheSidney1961 yea u aint even got an argument do you u agsactly like i said ur remarks twards shit liek dis is because u dislike the fact that no one is under ur greedy control caused prolly by ur slf asteem or intelectual yet im prolly betting u smoke lot a dope that come from the ground technecaly making it alive as god intendion so u beleve u magicaly apeard witch god ru speaking about cuz u basicaly just dissed all religions pointing in a gods name
alphamalemindreaper 1 year ago
the bible isent fake the words of man corupted it its been rewrote over abillion times gosh its not like it wouldent change after all the times they revised it they should of left it how it was mayby if u ever actualy beleved in him in the first place rather then just trying to save ur owne ass u might not be so negative and looking for trouble with ppl dnt beleve no resone to hate thats ur owne dam choise to start trouble like a kid or a whiney girl is just ignoreant
alphamalemindreaper 1 year ago
@TheSidney1961 wdf u doen on a bible page u dnt read it this is wat we beleve thats why we watching this if u dnt beleve dnt even try to force ur belief cuz if i remember corectly the korean says the same thing so just stop with ur remarks ur violent words arent gonna change any belevers hearts beleve wat u want well do the same its selective u cnt control us we have our owne mind
alphamalemindreaper 1 year ago
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2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
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2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
How can anyone call Pastor Murray a liar ??? He teaches the Bible, literally chapter by chapter and verse by verse. You can follow along with him ... that is how I study. Now, if one does not agree with his teachings ... that is one thing. But to say that he lies ???
Well, I am very grateful for him.
sandyj22 3 years ago 3
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noblecause 3 years ago
I have researched Arnold,Dennis and David Murray also Shepherd's Chapel for about 2 years. Mostly I've listened to his teaching from 6-12 hours a day. I can say with honesty that any negative thing you see on the internet is an outright lie! I went to church since 1988 until about 2 years ago and learned practically nothing about what God actually says in his word! I learned more in one month than in 18 years of getting "bible thumped". Passtor Murray is a wonderful teacher of God's Word.
jalopolar 3 years ago 14
@jalopolar What a no-life loser. He doesn't even believe in the Trinity.
SanguineBullet667 1 month ago
@jalopolar And you're a racist.
SanguineBullet667 1 month ago
i have wached this guy for years he is realy hard to falow so is his son but i do agrey there is no raptrue
beingther 3 years ago
Arnold Murray is the best pastor imo out there now a days
turbodaze 3 years ago 3
i can't believe this pastor has anything to do with white supremacist, he knows what the word says that we should love one another and everyone that loveth is born of GOD, he that loveth not knoweth not GOD; he teaches this
i can't see him teaching the word of GOD and being in opposition to it. if a man say that he loves GOD and hateth his brother(mankind, fellow believer) he is a liar. I don't see him that way,He teaches the word with understanding thats important to me. let GOD be judge.
cyndiaholman 3 years ago
also, ignore this blabber mouth who says hes is invlolved with the occult.
fraginat0r 3 years ago
Can someone make a good video of him!?!? he's a right teacher and i'd like to hear him
link0zeldarulz89 3 years ago
well if you ever stay up late (untill 2:00) you can catch him on your local public station
fraginat0r 3 years ago 2
...usualy I program my vcr to record him when he comes on
fraginat0r 3 years ago
Bullshit!
enerjon777 3 years ago
yeah and so is Obama's preacher, he's a supremacist as well.
warrior350es 3 years ago
You have your answer on the other video.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
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OK, that's IT!
sherriedale1 4 years ago
I wonder how a room full of people can listen at the same minister at the same time and hear a different message? Think on this.
Evrastus 4 years ago
I have Evrastus, I guess people comprehend things differently. Or, they just don't have eyes to see or ears to hear.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
I tried to respond to your last 2 but it won't seem to take.
csat82414 4 years ago
csat82414, Same thing with me. I spend alot of time thinking about what I want to tell you and then it won't take my comment. I guess we need to be running the show.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
I don't think I'm doing any good trying to convince you that Arnold is one of the false teachers talked about in the Bible,so your gonna have to figure it out for yourself. I thot it was cool at first until I got a strong's and investigated for myself.The clue should be when someone has all the truth and condemns others because they don't I wouldn't get to serious with him.The more people he can draw away from the traditions that Paul taught the more Arnold will deceive.Paul would rebuke him.
csat82414 4 years ago
OK csat82414, You are right. I really don't think I ever will find anyone who knows and teaches the way that he does. I've checked him out many times in my Strong's, but I've yet to bicker with him. And, I'm always impressed by hearing documentaries concerning bible and science on tv, and them tying in with what he has taught. You see, it's not just what he teaches, but I believe there's something special about him as a servant of God. He can be mean sometimes though. Blessings to you.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
The bat creek stone inscription Arnold don't tell you about is on the Masonic temples newsletter. And the runestone was sent to Europe and proven it could not have been inscrited in the 1300's.These documentories were done in the 80's and have been proven fakes. Plus other people in Arnolds docs that say Hebrews were her in B.C. Were found to falsify other findings.Arnold says the kenites came to distort the word. Sounds like Arnolds teaching the kenite doctrine to me.
csat82414 4 years ago
csat82414, I'm going to write and ask him about these things. We'll see how he answers to them. I'm curios now.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
You can go online and check it out pro or con. Put in bat creek stone and the first 2 listed tells about it.
csat82414 4 years ago
csat82414, Tell me how you REALLY feel ?
sherriedale1 4 years ago
Did my other one go thru? What happens if it don't happen the way Arnold says.He seems so sure. Ezekiel 13:20 has nothing to do with the rapture whether you believe it or not."Forbid not the speaking in tongues" has nothing to do with speaking Spanish. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit not Jesus. I heard it because they believe all 3 are the same. Arnold says if your baptised in Jesus name it's the same as all 3. I know you've heard him say that. The footprint cast looks concave not convex.
csat82414 4 years ago
I get a laugh every time he pulls out that footprint. I don't get him on that one, but it's got something to do with us (then angels) walking on the Earth in the first Earth Age. I have to tell you that he has NEVER said that Mary was conceived by Jesus ! Where in the world do you get that from ? He KNOWS the conception took place with the Holy Spirit. I know that you know what "speaking in tongues" is refering to, so what do you mean here ?
sherriedale1 4 years ago
You calling me a liar? I heard it.And a lot of other rediculous statements. Do you think a murder can't ask God for for giveness and get it. Then King David didn't get it.Where doe he come up with his interpretation"A murder can't find forgiveness in the flesh" The subject there is hate compared to murder. Pauls talking about a prayer language that edifies oneself and no one else. And it was being abused.Why don't Arnold talk about Azusa St. there was an outpouring of the Spirit in early 1900's
csat82414 4 years ago
Yes, a murderer CAN ask God for forgiveness, but not in the flesh.(for the "intentional" murders that were done out of pure evil)God tells us in the bible that they have to be sent to Him for judgement(as in capital punishment), wait until death, or during judgement at the end of the 1000 year reign. But yes, in some cases I'm sure God would forgive them, depending on what was in their heart and in their thoughts when they were committing the murder. He knows our thoughts and mind, as you know.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
King Davids murder of uriah and Raping his wife was done out of pure evil. Read and see if God forgave him. You Didn't answer My Azusa St. question.
csat82414 4 years ago
No, I would never call you a liar. But I do think somewhere along the way you misunderstood him. I watch his teachings thru a whole chapter at a time. I don't catch a program here and a program there, because that can be confusing to someone that hasn't heard him teach consecutively. I KNOW this from a family member of mine who has a satellite. She stays so confused on his teachings, and is ALWAYS saying something she heard him say that she completely misunderstood. But neither of you are lying.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
I'm Gonna start recording from the big dish because they seem to let stupid stuff slip by on that.But even if you heard with your own ears you wouldn't believe it. I heard him say, without works you'll be naked as a jay bird in the millennium but now its in heaven. Which one did you here? You never answered my question if God created the earth in the 1st earth age then the angels or the angels then the earth? Do you go to church?
csat82414 4 years ago
I try to answer all of them, but sometimes I run out of space. Naked as a jay bird in Heaven. It doesn't make it clear which was created 1st, I don't think, but my guess is that he may have created the universe before us, therefore the earth would be 1st. Do you know something different ? David killed him because he loved his wife. That's not really considered evil. I think it's romantic. He didn't just kill him for no reason as evil people do. I don't know about Azusa. No church for me.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
It couldn't have been murder because it would go against Arnys teaching,and we just can't have that. If God created the universe first,then Elohim,God,would mean the plurality of God and not God and his angels. That would go against Arnys teaching.And we just can't have that.I heard Arny say the locusts are kenites and the 2000-1000 are deceived christians and churches.Can you find Azusa online? If you use Arny for Arnold you get more characters.Send that David responce you had to Arny for ?time
csat82414 4 years ago
It WAS murder. Are you making fun of my beloved pastor? Well, I don't like it. David IS a kitten. He is precious. Remember, the meek will inherit the earth. God was speaking to his angels about putting them in flesh bodies, not creating the universe. Elohim was the "host" in God's presence at that time meaning the archangels and the angels/his children/our souls/us. I thought the locust were the 7000, maybe Kenites too. The Kenites can still be saved, but the 7000 are sentenced to die already.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
Gen 1:1 is what"pastor"says is the first earth age creation,so if he created the earth or the universe first there were no angels to refer Elohim to them. Elohim would have to mean Father Son and Holy Spirit.If you hear Arnold say the locusts are different than Kenites let me know,because I have it recorded.I'll bet you David get's a hair transplant.He must feel pretty bad his big brother having a full head of hair and David losing his. I know how he feels. Does that mean were kenites if we are.
csat82414 4 years ago
Gen 1:1 was the first earth age creation according to Arnold. If the angels weren't created yet, God in that verse which means Elohim would mean God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The "host" wasn't created yet. Or did the angels always exist?
csat82414 4 years ago
Pastor murray was recently arrested for fondeling little kids in his service!!
The story broke at meatspin,com
If jesus christ comes back, kill him again!
That hippy pedophile drug abuser!!
InsANUSylum 4 years ago
THIS MAN NEEDS AN ENEMA!
sisterberthabangers1 4 years ago
I'm going to stand on God's Word, His Promises and His Truths for y'alls sake.
Putting words in my mouth again are you. I'm NOT threatening God, how foolish would that be. I'm Boldly standing on Gods Word and not choosing to take a mans ideas and interpertations over God (how foolish is someone that does trust man over God, they'll know in time).
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Ezek 37:10
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, Rev. 11.11 an exceeding great army.
Rev 11:11
And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; Ezek. 37.10 and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
But aren't you going to be gone long before this transpires 1HT?
Lizi99 4 years ago
"But aren't you going to be gone long before this transpires 1HT?"
Lizi, you have to remember what I think of opinions on Gods word, I don't think or lean to them. That's why I haven tried to tell y'all anything from the Bible other than outright read it for what it is scripture. If I told you what I thought, it'd be no different than Murray. I know what Gods word says about not trusting any man, i'll continue to follow God on that. If i'm deceived, Gods got some explaining to do.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
That is a load of (something). We are supposed to share God's Word and Insight to help others, can't the Holy Spirit teach through you? I have tried time and again to have a conversation with you about the Bible. I did not ask for you to teach me the Bible, just talk open and honestly about scripture. Why would God have to explain anything to you? He uses his Children to teach and test. Thats pretty bold on your part to threaten God. But the Father does love his Children regardless.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; 2 Kgs. 2.11 and their enemies beheld them.
2Kings
2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Eli'jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
I do stand corrected, mostly in Rev he is talking to John with the come up hither.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Lizi, I don't take scripture the way you do, by murrays interpretation so it's useless to try to make me believe what you want me to. Sorry dear, I trust in God.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
And that line about us thinking people who follow God instead of man are deceived... that's you attempting to define our beliefs for us again and putting words in our mouths again. I respect what you're trying to do in your studies. But you set yourself up as being superior, or immune to being deceived or misinterpreting something. Yet even if you pay no mind to man's teachings, you are a man yourself, and as capable of any other flesh man of being wrong.
RVY13088 4 years ago
I'm only superior, or immune to being deceived through Jesus Christ and I don't try to take any credit for what onlt Jesus can do for one.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
As said before, if trusting God is going to get me deceived, then at least i'll be on Gods side. I don't lean unto my own understandings like y'all fdo. I take God at His word and don't try to make it something it isn't. Follow away sheep, your shepard Murray calls. If Murray wouldn't outright lie on certain things, his degree, and misinterpret the Bible
Forget it, I hope y'all find the Truth one day.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Follow away. Find out in time. I find it Very Strange that NEITHER of you mentioned anything about Murray NOT being y'alls God. I would have set someone straight rihgt away, 1st line. But no remark at all. Strange. And y'all think people who trust God over man are being deceived. Good luck and good bye.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
That's because, if I can say this without sounding insulting, it was an absolutely ridiculous remark that as far as I'm concerned did not require or even deserve a response. Just based on your finding this strange, that pretty much confirms the fact that you made it for no other reason than to attempt to incite or start an argument. Besides that, I don't feel I have anything to prove to you. There's also the fact that you want to define our beliefs and "faults" for us, no matter what we say.
RVY13088 4 years ago
It's because i don't want you to believe what I tell you either. TRUST GOD not any man. Follow away. Simple. And to think i even spent this long caring enough to tell y'll to trust God instead of Murray. You get what you deserve for putting anyting before God. It's on you.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
So you're now playing the part of judge and mind reader and heart knower as well. Only of course you'll say you're not. ONLY GOD knows where our hearts lie, whether we've put anything or the words of any man before Him. If we sin in this manner or another then God will surely correct us and we will surely need to repent. But who are you to convict us of sin based upon words in a VERY imperfect and erratic forum? I wonder if you believe that you sin.
RVY13088 4 years ago
So why don't you call it judging whem Murray calls Kenites tares. Isn't that judging, but it's ok when might Murray does it cause his word is golden right. My flesh and soul isn't ammuned to sin, just the Spirit of God in me is.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Well if you accept the fact that the tares are put here by Satan, that they are his children,that the Kenites are the sons of Cain, and that Cain's father was Satan, then I of course I don't call that judging. If he were to say that a Kenite can not be saved or that a tare is a tare with no chance at being saved, then yes that's judging. I wouldn't even consider all Kenites to be tares, and doubt if he does either, though I could be wrong.
RVY13088 4 years ago
And you've also said you don't agree with all that he says or teaches. Murray shouldn't even mention the Kenites, it's a racist statement to single out anyone, they had NO choice in what they were born, GOD did. Murray nor his bunch are no more special in Gods eyes than a Kenite, we were all made equal, and Jesus died for all. Anyone can be redeemed through accepting Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of their life. I'll choose to trust God with Christianity over what Murray is teaching!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Document where it says the Kenites are the offspring of Cain.
csat82414 4 years ago
You have to look at the original Hebrew and the meaning of the words with a Strong's Concordance. "Kenite" is Hebrew word 7017,which says a member of the tribe of Kajin. But it says it is patronymic, which refers to the father of the tribe, or these people, directing you to Hebrew word 7014, Qayin, which is Cain.
RVY13088 4 years ago
My Strong's says the same thing, but doesn''t say anything about the children of Cain. Moses father-in-law was called a kenite for the area he lived, but wasn't a child of Cain. Why isn't the other kenites mentioned in the Bible under the same conditions? Why doesn't the Bible say Satan uncovered Adam then Eves nakedness? Wouldn't the author of the first 5 books of the Bible use the same words for the same meaning. This tree thing seems a bit of a stretch.
csat82414 4 years ago
More of a stretch than a snake telling Eve to bite an apple ? And it DID say satan uncovered they're nakedness, when it was over, they covered with fig leaves didn't they ? And if I'm remembering right, Moses father-in-law was a Kenite, and how do you know he wasn't of Kenite blood ? Maybe it was because of where he lived, I don't know for sure.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
Arnold said becaues of where he lived and that's the reason there are kenites mentioned in the Bible not because their related to satan by birth.
csat82414 4 years ago
yes csat82414, I do remember that. It was because of where he lived.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
Thank you.I knew it was evident somewhere in Strongs but,sorry,I had been to lazy to find it.
Evrastus 4 years ago
Thank you RVY13088,I just had been too lazy to look up that info.Sorry me.
Evrastus 4 years ago
1HT - Why did Jesus ask Peter "Lovest me thou Peter?" three times?
Lizi99 4 years ago
1HT ... Why was Moses not allowed to enter into the promise land with the rest of the Israelites? What did Moses do that earned him that punishment from God? What was the curse upon Moses's sister? What happened to Aaron's sons who were Levitical Priests?
Lizi99 4 years ago
Do you not know the all mighty power of Jesus Crist blood and resurrection. You may want to study on it more. He and He alone is why any of us have a chance to be saved. Not our doings. Only a truely born again person would love Jesus, for who He is and what He's done for them.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I give up trying to have a conversation with you 1HT. You did not answer my question, just the same old tirade thats been going on for a month beating me with stuff I already know. IF CHRIST COMES TO TAKE HIS FOLLOWERS AWAY, THEN RETURNS TO EARTH AGAIN TO REIGN IN THE MILLENNIUM THATS THREE ADVENTS, NOT TWO!!! WHERE IS SCRIPTURE FOR THAT MIDDLE ADVENT? #1 Christ comes meekly riding an ass. #2 Christ returns with a rod of iron riding a white horse to wage war, reap the harvest, etc.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Yes darling, Christ comes to Earth, feet on earth, twice. You are correct. I don't want you to believe what I would tell you, that would only mean that you flip flopped from one man beliefs to anothers . Believe Gods whole word. Not any mans interpretation. You've got brain clog from all of Murrays junk he's poluting you with. The Bible can better be understood when being read with ones(Christians) pure heart, where God's Spirit resides. Ones, others, minds can and will be deceived by satan.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Arrogance, vanity, self-righteousness, pompus, snide, rude, conceited, haughty, egotistical, supercilious, condescending, overconfident, prideful: have you heard these words from others? I am not a sycophant, but I clearly see that me being a woman limits my ability to think, read or understand "in your opinion". Wow, would I be allowed to even speak in your chruch?
Lizi99 4 years ago
Murray's ways at it's best when someone disagrees with his or his followers teachings. I'm not sorry that I don't think of Murray as GOD as some people do. Certainly not those false teachings that you've been trying to pass off on me you wouldn't.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
So you disregard the opinions and observations of fellow christians and see them as invalid due to whom they study with or under? I believe you're a committed christian, but there's still a very evident tone of "well I'm just better than you" to your posts. Who I study with or who's beliefs I agree with really don't have anything to do with it. It's simply taking in what you have to say.
RVY13088 4 years ago
Old saying, they can dish it but they can't take it. And the bad thing is it's all there in the Bible, but Murrays word rules in your eyes. You're setting your self up for a fall. Your ability to trust God over man is the problem. All I can say is Good Luck to you.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Thank you,finally. Give up on any mans words and stick with Gods and you want ever be deceived! Believing a man will surely head you into deception. I find it real strang that all i'm telling you to do is to trust God alone, and you seem to have a problem with that. Unbelieveable! If I were doing as y'all are, and tring to make one believe another mans ideas about the Bible, I could truely understand, but i'm saying Trust God alone, and it doesn't compute with y'all. Very Strange!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
IF the people of Ephesus repent, they receive it. IF they do not, their church is removed... though people within it may still be overcomers.
RVY13088 4 years ago
Christianity isn't gotten through, or cannot be gotten because of any group, church... It's an individule status. Did you have a choice in the matter of what race, sex, or time when you were born, God isn't going to punish anyone for that, including the Kenites so much talked down on by Murray (another dead give away on him). What will save one eternally or cause one to perish eternally is the acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ, and only that. Remember what God thinks of our righteousnesses
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
The reason I believe a lot of christians who disagree with some of my beliefs are probably taught incorrectly is because I KNOW I was taught incorrectly when I believed the same things. Look at the condition of the churches in Revelation 2 and 3 as spoken by Jesus. Out of 7 churches, 5 had something wrong with them! That's not a good ratio. And the 2 that Christ found no fault with had one thing in common, and that is they recognized those who were of the synagouge of Satan.
RVY13088 4 years ago
That's still your opinion. You've got to get away from that and stick to Gods word, not a mans theories.
And yet you leave out the importance of what is said to all of the churches. check em out again and find out what is said towards the end of each of their letters. Take it all or none.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Yes, but you have to realize that they also have to meet the conditions set forth by God to claim that. Like the church of the Laodiceans. If they repent and get back right with God,then they receive what is said at the end. If they do not, they are spewed out of His mouth.
RVY13088 4 years ago
My point exactly, don't count anyone out, Kenite included. It's not for any man to judge weather someone is a Christian (we know God said Whosoever). What is the only way anyone can ever be in right standing with God, through Jesus Christ alone. Jesus alone reconciles us with God, not our righteous acts, which for alot it's just that, acting. There's hope for all, and a promise from God, Whosoever, and it's not limited by any means.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I freely admit Murray may be wrong on some things. He is after all, human as well. I also freely admit he says things that I either still can't quite see where he's coming from. In those instances I sometimes match up what he's saying with what I believe God is saying in other places, because God is consistent and never changes throughout the Word. Personally, for me he checks out on most everything. But I still try to separate him and his teachings from me, so that I do not blindly follow.
RVY13088 4 years ago
That's a problem for me. If I know someone is wrong on something out of Gods word, using Gods word to test it, so long. I'm not having part in that person's deception. Oh, well, it's like i've said, at least you're Christians and that's what matters. If i've offended any, it wasn't meant to do, as I was (as always) only defending Gods word, which should alway be taken in context and completely given.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I understand, and I do appreciate that. I agree there is nothing wrong with zealously defending the Word if you believe it has been messed with.
RVY13088 4 years ago
I don't do it when I believe, that would be leaning unto my own understanding. I do it when it is clearly not what Gods word says, simple.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Again, I understand. The reason I said believe is simply because we still disagree about what Murray is teaching. But you could be wrong on him, as could I. Time will tell and really God only knows completely.
RVY13088 4 years ago
When he's NOT teaching Gods word fully, correctly, out of context, HE IS WRONG! I'm trusting God, so if i'm wrong, i'm wrong with God. When you lean to your own or others understanding, that makes you wrong and able to be deceived. I'm trusting God for a reason, because He says to. I don't have a problem with that, or don't even want to stray out from under His truth. You are so right, time will certainly tell, Come Quickly Lord Jesus! This world needs your help and don't even realize it.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
See, unlike you 1HT, I have cared about God and His Word for a long time. Oh, I have been FAR from perfect, and I have at times in life been far from faithful in study and other areas of my life. But I grew up going to church and believing at an early age. I grew up believing Adam and Eve ate an apple. I grew up believing in a rapture. I even grew up believing, or fearing, that I could "accidentally" recieve the mark of the beast.
RVY13088 4 years ago
So why do you so easily sterotype people who don't follow your way of thinking. It's not the doctrines that a perso follows that makes them a Cristian. It's their trust, belief, faith, acceptance of Jesus Christ as their saviou. Not what church, race, breed... WHOSOEVER is the greatest thing and we as Christians should be spreading that like a wild fire out of control. Instad most try to control WHOSOEVER! What make you think you're right now. Unbias testing agaist Gods word is the way to know!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I'll get to the rest. I just want to ask a question. Where and how have I stereotyped you, in your thinking?
RVY13088 4 years ago
Not a follower of Murray. Because I read Gods word and take it for what it says and not a mans opinion, y'all think non followers of Murray are being taught wrong. If i'm being taught wrong, you're saying Gods wrong. I take God at His word, trusting He will take care of the rest. It's called Faith for a reason. I take no offense to anything anyone says to me. Like i've said, if God be for me, who can be against me., and greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. Thank you Jesus!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Honest question 1HT. Do you go to a church or do you study and worship and fellowship with God on your own?
RVY13088 4 years ago
I'm curently seeking a non-denominational group of people to fellowship, praise & worship God with, but for now it me and my family. The group i'm seeking requires a move, which is why my house is for sale.
When I became a Christian I dove in and saturated myself with Gods word. He turned my world upside down from what I was. So much so that I despist the person I was and the things I did, I know Pauls pain well. Going to Churches doesn't make a person a Christian, my rest is in Jesus.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Well I agree going to church does not make a person a christian. I was just wondering in regards to the statement about being taught incorrectly. If you believe in a rapture as it is commonly taught and believe in it because that's what you see in the Word, well, I still disagree because I don't see it, but I will give you credit for coming to that through your own study and not a church's teachings.
RVY13088 4 years ago
All people will never, until changed, be in agreement. You have to trust God and God alone, not even ones own thought or ideas because that's how satan tempt us, our own minds, which needs to be renewed by Gods word. I believ God on His word, not theories, simple. And by doing just that, one will be best off.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Well stated 1HT. My experience is similar. I was of the flesh, but always believed in Christ, but was one sinful little child. It was Christ who never let go of me, which is awesome in itself, for why do I deserve such love?
Lizi99 4 years ago
None of us do. Every human, other than Jesus , deserves the Lake of fire. The Bible says all our righteousness are as filthy rags. That's all out goodness that we TRY to do. God looks at them as the bloody, puss filled, scabbed up rags that came off of a lepers sores. That's our goodness, so don't even think anyones religious acts will do them any good, Jesus alone can reconcile one with God.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
So why do the children of the rapture doctrine believe they are too good for tribulation and get to be spared that part of future history by being transfigured out?
Lizi99 4 years ago
It's not that people that take God at His word, over a mans theory, think they are too good for anything. The Bible says there is NONE that is good, not one. But Jesus is perfect, He has redeemed us. Because multiple things can happen at the same time you know. You are limiting the ability of your mind to be able to be renewed by being force fed a mans theories, and worst yet, trusting and beliving him.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
No IHT...it is you sterotyping students of Pastor Murrays Bible Study. Just because you dont like him. I adore him because he does not play with the Word of God...it is verse by verse, chapter by chapter...with languages, geology, history, science, math included. I let God do the judging. I prayed for a teacher and I got Pastor Murray. Must you kick against a fellow Christian who's prayers was answered thus.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Well he needs to learn to teach all the verses on a subject. Especially when GODS very own statement is being left out. Not kicking anyone, just defending Gods word. Take that up with God.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I don't want you to listen to me on Bible matters, or any man for that matter. That's how one is eaisly deceived. Trust Gods word only, not a mans theories. If I were telling you anything different you would have reason to doubt me. Y'all on the other hand have been trying to prove to me things using Murrays ideas & theories. I'm not falling for it. Go with Gods word, and not your own or others understanding and you will be fine. Slip up and go against that and deception will creep up on you.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Besides 1HT, I dont want to discuss Pastor Murray nor the Rapture Doctrine with you because the point is mute between us.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Because you are seeing that Murray has people believing what he wants them to. He leaves out scripture when it's convenient to fit his doctrin. Just as RVY NOW knows how to rightly devide the Word, but doesn't NOW know how to finish scriture. Look at what a man is trying to make you believe and yet leave out what GOD cleary says. You're correct, all points are mute between us. I go with what Gods word says, others take mans opinion on the Bible. Follow away little sheep.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Quit judging! I am taking offense for being treated like I am an airhead that has no ability to read and understand Gods word using her own intelect. It is too a point whereby you are thick headed and whinny. All your other friends are wrong too for stepping away from you...you are the only one right...hello....step back and think about it.
Lizi99 4 years ago
There's that Murray spirit. I've already told you but you don't seem to understand Gods clear word, I'm simply doing what the Bible says to do, testing all things against Gods word. If that offends you then your tantrum isn't with me. Gods word will never give way to anyone's opinion. As stated in the past, it's not judging if it's a fact. I'm sorry your teacher won't tell the truth about where/if he got his DR. title from. I stepped away from their wrongfully Bible teachings. God, not man!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Here's the problem. In some of your responses, YOUR spirit comes across as haughty, arrogant, and "holier than thou". You say everything exactly right. Yet when asked politely to show one verse, one biblical thought or phrase that proves a pretrib rapture, you said once you don't have to prove anything, and ignored the second comment/request. Yet in so doing, what you proved is that you follow MAN's interpretations of the "rapture", something you claim you do not do.
RVY13088 4 years ago
"Holier than thou", without Jesus No one is holy! If you're taking it that way than you have the problem. Jesus was blunt and to the point with those that tried to come up against Him, they didn't like it either. As for as verses go, i'm not trying to make anyone believe a particular doctrin, just believe Gods word over mans opinions, theories. I've told you time and again, I follow Gods word, not mans. So how can I possibly be deceived. But you openly say you believe mans theories. Truth told!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
A wise person and a wise christian at least stops and looks and examines themselves when two or more fellow christians see a problem. But you probably dismiss us because of our "Murrayitis" in your mind. Here's the thing... you're not Jesus and we're not the Pharisees.Unless of course you believe you're perfect and incapable of having a flaw. And I said I DID rely on man's theories until I learned to divide the Word. So YOU'RE dealing in half and outdated truths.
RVY13088 4 years ago
Is there any. The truely wise trust God only. How many Christians truely do. I simply put it up against Gods word. Nothing else. I don't dismiss anyone, because I realize it's not through what one does, but through the acceptance of what Jesus Christ has done, that Whosoever can be saved. Kenite included. Whosoever is not limited to 144,000 you know. The Spirit of God that lives in me, has been made perfect through my acceptance of Jesus. So you've stopped believing Murrays theories as of now!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I'm simply dealing with what you've openly said. I can only go by that. Just because you say you rightly devide the word, should I believe you. I know what Gods word says. + it's rightly dividing the word of truth!
And there YOUR half and outdated truths that are being delt. I really can't see what's so hard about following Gods word. Man will lie, God doesn't. Why would Anyone want to trust a man over God. Y'all don't like it when someone doesn't play along with y'alls theories at all.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
No, in all honesty what I don't care for is your insistence and claim that we blindly follow theories and not God at His Word. You and I, and you and Lizi have disagreements over the Word and what it says. Has my thinking been influenced by Murray's teachings? I'm sure it has. But that's because I found the teachings and my biblical beliefs from before to be false.
RVY13088 4 years ago
I totally undestand that, totally. Long ago, teenage years, my parents had us in a CULT. A church that believed they, and they alone, were the one and only true church. I wasn't in it by choice, and didn't know Jesus then, but I disagreed with it. WHOSOEVER means that! CULTS make one believe otherwise. (The bold isn't directed to you, it's my discust for anything that goes against Gods word. If God wouldn't have changed my heart, we wouldn't be speaking, because I wouldn't have cared about any1.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Well I am glad that He did. Praise God for that.
RVY13088 4 years ago
1HT- And yet in all your vast understanding of God's Word, you cling to the hope of flying away so you dont have to stand against Anti-Christ among God's Elect. Why would one refuse to Champion Christ or the Word in a time when it is needed most? I am not a lost soul, yet you rail against me and kick at me. When you plant a seed it does't not mean you plant it in the pack and shopping bag (baggage) it came with also. Just one little seed of truth that God will produce into hope for a lost soul.
Lizi99 4 years ago
I cling to the Cross of Jesus Christ, all else will work out reguardless of what one thinks. Jesus alone is my savior. I'm not trusting in anything that I can do. That's called self-righteousness, wich will get one into hell, but never Heaven! I've given you the best seed anyone could ever need, Trust God, Not man. If you would only let it grow you would see the results.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
You're doing fine Lizi. You have the right idea in saying it's a moot point. I think it's best if we both, even all 3 step away, since we all claim to be christians and Satan has probably already had some good chuckles out of what has turned into bickering. I'm glad to see you stand up for yourself as a woman of God and am glad to see that you have gotten some of the same spiritual food I have from Murray's teachings. Take care and God bless.
RVY13088 4 years ago
hahahaha - God and the whole Host have probably had some chuckles from we children. But at least our Father knows we care and love him. Thank you RVY for your kind words, and yes standing up for myself and having a strong opinion is not an issue for me (hehe). But being gentle with other Christians is hard sometimes as we are all judged, in society, by the few. But the seeds are easily sown :) I dont mean as a man pleaser, but care giver. Didn't want 1HT to step into that hole!
Lizi99 4 years ago
You mean standing up for a mans theories. If you were standing up for Gods true word instead you would be better off. The only holes you shoud watch out for are the ones in Murray theories. Why is it he Never mentions the rest of the story when quoting Ezk.13 on his anti-rapture theory. The whole story, the way God said it, had it written and intended for it to be taught. Because God "delivers" those very people that Murray claims are being deceived by the Anti-christ, and Murrays theory is shot
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
You 2 are like a little tag team duo. I bet satan love it when Murray tells people it wouldn't matter if they got the mark tattooed on them also. Spiritual food, you mean belief in a mans theories. Don't try to claim something off as spiritual when it isn't purely Biblical, only partial. Satan loves half truths, he tried it on Jesus when tring to temtp Him. Quoting partial scripture to try to deceive with.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
The point is I'm sure Satan enjoys seeing members of God's family rip and tear into one another. Which should we be doing, fight Satan or fight each other? Can a house divided against itself stand? You took a post meant as encouragement and kind words from a christian brother to a christian sister and used it as an opportunity to attack us. You say you're a christian. I'm asking you, one to another, LET IT GO. It is doing no good, and in fact doing harm if anything.
RVY13088 4 years ago
You want to know what is doing harm! Wrongful teaching of Gods Word, teaching partial scripture, taking scriptue out of context. And I will never stand by and let that go. You, like satan, would love for me to let it go. You want your way and to be right. Someone isn't going to let Gods Word, the only truth about the Bible, be twisted and you can't handle it.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
You say you know the Bible but won't even admit to what it cleary says, what verses are being left out of Murray's teachings, your beliefs. Gods word is there for all to see, yet things get left out of Murrays teachings (someone who claims to teach vs. by vs. none the less). I guess he just forgot to finish up Ezk.13: right. Divide vs.21-23 also if you want to be 100% truthful. I'm not ripping anything but what goes against Gods word. If you take offense, go to Gods word on the matter that does.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I HAVE heard him include those verses with my own two ears. On MORE than one occasion. Just because it wasn't mentioned here, or just because you haven't heard him do so, does not mean your claims are true. I really don't know what else to say in regard to that point right now, especially since we're talking all over the place as it is.
RVY13088 4 years ago
MY POINT EXACTLY! Why doesn't he ALWAYS include Gods words on that subject! God put them there for a good reason, to be told when teaching on those passages! Partial scripture teaching on a message from the Bible can be misleading. The whole subject on the matter will not. Murray bases one of his major theories on those scripture, but doesn't include all of them, especially GODS OWN STATEMENT, everytime he teaches on it. I find that really strange.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Well, maybe it does seem strange if you hear that. The thing is, only the man himself can adequately answer that. But I will say, I think if he's teaching on a very PARTICULAR subject, then perhaps he leaves those verses out if he doesn't think they are necessary to a certain aspect of the subject. If he believes those verses describe a rapture like deception and believes it shows God is against it, and that's the only point he's trying to make, then that's all he addresses.
RVY13088 4 years ago
What a joke. Unbelievable! What a blatant disreguard for Gods word, by a man who prides himself on teaching vs. by vs. but can't go 3 more verses on a subject, ALL the time, to show what God says. I think it's because he's trying to make it something that it isn't and if he continued, God deliveres those that he claims are being deceived by the A-c. Whole truth, or holes, it's there to be read. I can't see how people defend his stuff, unreal!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Well, we disagree then. But I will say, you do realize he does verse by verse book studies, and then topical studies where he draws selected verses from several different places, right? The thing is though, if the supposition is that God is against the rapture theory and those verses show it, the fact that God delivers those deceived by it does not blow holes in the supposition that He's against flying away to save your soul. Why do you think that? Honest question
RVY13088 4 years ago
1st off the scriptur doesn't say flying away. And Murray always makes his statement about people who believe they will fly awar for their salvation. Gods word doesn't say that at all, but he continues to interpret it wrongly. When you add or take a way the slightest bit,(as satan tried on Jesus) most don't catch it. Gods word shouldn't be changed at all! The best Murray could do is to read the Bible to people and never put in his own words, just keep reading Gods wors. When his opinion enters...
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
No, it doesn't, which is something to at least consider. But it does say hunt souls to make them fly. How would you then interpret souls being made to fly? And I understand the last part. But the thing is, he would not be a teacher, good or bad, real or fake, without ANY commentary. And God does appoint teachers of His Word. Anyone can read the bible, but not everyone understands. Though I do believe if one asks God, He will provide that understanding.
RVY13088 4 years ago
A human cannot fly, who would even think such a thing. You're listing to a man and believing him. Which we know what Gods word says on that, and yet you insist on it anyway. All I can tell you is God can be trusted, man cannot. Your choice pal. Make it carefully. Then why would you or anyone need a teacher if you know God will give us understanding if we want or need or ask for it? Makes no sense why you choose to follow a man, especially one you said you don't fully agree with. UNREAL!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Humans fly everyday, all the time...its called technology.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Yes, by way of a plane. Jesus didn't take a plane to get to Heaven. Childish little word games by you and taking a statement out of context, why am I not supprised, it's what you've been taught by a man to do. Sad.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
God flew in a spaceship (armada even) to speak personally with Ezekiel.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Jesus assended into Heaven to be with God.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Back to the fly part. Jesus had NO problem ascending into Heaven. What, God can't do the same mirical again, on a larger scale. Y'all don't know the true power of God. But how could one when they choose mans words ove Gods. I actually feel sorry that y'all are limiting yourselves because of Murray. Just reading the Bible would at least make hima a CORRECT teacher. His own opinion is just that, especially when it's leaving out important vs. or contadicting Gods word Claiming to mean something.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
You can count on one hand the ones God transfigured in flesh: Christ, Enoch, Moses, Elijah. What makes you so special that you are getting transfigured away from tribulation and others are not? Our flesh dies and we step out, just like everybody else. God appointed it to man to die but one time. Something he himself would do. Moses and Elijah will likely die in the street of Jerusalem by anit-christ because they are the two witnesses that God sends.
Lizi99 4 years ago
What makes any Christian special, Jesus Christ. And who does Murray claim he and his followers to be. Isn't that special! You just throw out some of Gods words, (1 Cor.15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all "sleep", but we shall all be changed,) And we all know vs.52. Not All Shall Sleep! God's Word, not mans ideas. And look at what the 2 witnesses are told, (Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud;) But I guess they think they are going to Fly Away also!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
I am sorry...its is John who is told to come up hither by an Angel in his dream. And know many wont ever sleep, just step out of their flesh to meet Christ at his return on Mt. Zion, the same place he ascended will he descend. The witnesses die, it is important that they die and lay in the street for 3 days before they resurrect.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Rev.11:11,12 CLEARLY SAYS...11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And you are trying to tell me what Gods word says. Do you really think people are that blind!! UNBELIEVABLE!!! You need to be sorry for trying to deceive!
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Indeed. Just as when Christ returned for a time after His Resurrection and the graves literally opened and people stepped out. It was a one time occurrence to show Christ reigned over the power of the grave. That does not mean that will happen again, as some people believe. The situation with the witnesses is another "type" of sorts, although after the fact, of Christ's resurrection. When it happens, people will realize their mistake in worshipping their "god".
RVY13088 4 years ago
If you don't want to believe Gods word you don't have to. It's all there the way He intended it to be written. Follow on.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
Hi RVY13088...I am quite tired of being told Pastor Murray is my god and that I dont have a brain cell to read and study on my own. 1HT is not here to study the Bible, but as a hater of Pastor Murray only. Over the course of almost 2 months he has failed to answer or discuss any other Biblical history other than the small sections of the Bible he does know. All of God'w Word is important for it tells a complete history and leaves little room for misunderstanding on our part :) Good Luck
Lizi99 4 years ago
Thank you Lizi. I completely agree. Thank you, and good luck to you as well.
RVY13088 4 years ago
Trust God NOT man is all you need to know. But you'd rather trust Murrays ideas. Well you'll find out in time. I hope when you're in the line for the mark that Murray will atleast be in front of you.
1HelpedThem 4 years ago