Should the Government Mandate Health Insurance?

[YamaKazoo]

I dont thinks its possible for government to mandate health insurance because health insurance isnt a person.

[turgeo2004]

oh and america is no longer a republic, it is a socialist police state, so time for a political revolution, we must take back our country from the Euro trash marxists that have taken it over, personally i think we should round up every damn marxist and send them back to europe or china (depending on where they originally came from) in body bags!

oh and all you marxists and enemies of liberty remember

JESUS LOVES YOU!

BUT I DONT!

BYE BYE!

[turgeo2004]

also serbia must take back kosovo and i will support russia and serbia in the next balkin war against the nato pigs. because islam is evil and i will support serbia s bid to kick out every damn muslim that is pissing on christian lands in the balkins! I will not be tolerant to islam, Serbia and kosovo are Orthadox christian owned and controlled forever more, as a christian myself, i will back up fellow christians around the world in this holy war that was started by islam.

[turgeo2004]

personally i have already decided that im gonna bust a cap in the ass of the first cop that trys to give me a ticket for not having health insurance. UP YOURS D.C. and i am also in a income tax revolt, im not longer filing or paying. COME GET ME! and i will pay you IN HOT COPPER! the 7.62x39mm kind, if you know what i mean (DEATH to the NWO, and the POLICE STATE) i am the kalishnakov cowboy, i am plotting to overthrow the us (politicall revolution) and i approve this message!

[AK47orM16]

here is the health-care plan for you: If your over 65, it is mandatory every 5 years for you and your doctor to discuss how you want to end the pain (end your life). If you have good health-care u will have to get the socialized type instead...WHAT THE HELL! If you don't have health insurance they still wont let you pay for any surgeries or anything.... the Klan is not to happy right now

[MeandProgressive]

Progressive thinks people are STUPID because they are utilizing some dumb caricature to sell worthless insurance policies. There is nothing funny about death and an insurance company such as Progressive that REFUSES to honor their policy. Progressive is nothing more than a Ponzi Scheme in which the Corporate Executives get rich and leave injured policy holders bogus insurance policies which are not worth the paper they are written on. See Progressive Insurance Has Treated Me as Roadkill

[AK47orM16]

the entire damn population is roadkill in the governments eyes....for the government, the only thing we are good for is putting money in there pocket and being there slaves

[MeandProgressive]

Actually its situational application of the law in favor of Corporate Executives such as Glen Renwick, CEO Progressive. In Texas Automobile Insurance is mandated for everyone but there is no "mandate" that Companies such as Progressive have to honor their bogus policies. When I filed a formal complaint against Progressive, the Texas State Board of Insurance Commission refused to review it because I was only a passenger in a car hit by a large truck. What a sweetheart deal for Progressive

[DavidWillB]

He know that it is a single payer OPTION, right? If people want to have private health insurance, they can and it is even encouraged.

By arguing against mandates, he is arguing against a strawman in this case.

[proffesor02]

Is it an option to NOT have any insurance? If people are required to have some type of insurance (whether private or public) then it isn't a strawman. If insurance is optional (ie. you don't have to have insurance) then it is a strawman.

[sugarpuddin88]

America bankrupt:

102 trillion for SS & medicare

25 trillion for TARP & bailouts

53 trillion plundered from other trusts

Every single American man, woman & child owes over $600K in FED Gov debt

The US dollar will collapse within the next 1 to 2 years

Check out Rockefeller & Senate Bills 773 & 778 attempting to end American access to the Internet

Americans lost all but no. 3 of their Bill of Rights; Geithner has been wrong about everything for 15 straight years!

1 in 10 on US food stamps

[funkalunatic]

The "mandate" is a side issue. The idea behind health reform is to make sure that people are PROVIDED with health care. A "mandate" is just one of many ways to provide universal health care, but then people like this jackass would be even less likely to vote for it. That's why he's being intellectually dishonest when he acts like the mandate is what he opposes most of all.

[cuzzinpaulie]

the mandate is not a side issue. it is a direct assault on our freedom. we should not summit to this type of slavery. i wont summit they can send my ass to prison

[therock27374]

Health insurance companies could do with some competition anyways. But I would like to see an OPTIONAL government alternative, so those who apply for that can pay a bitsy and more people who get it, the cheaper it gets etc etc etc....But atm I'm quite confused about the rukkus, so no idea whats going on.

[MagellansUnderwear]

This is close to how France does it, and France has financially the most successful medical care. As far as effectiveness and coverage, France is high up but not the best. The most effective health care is in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, but they are a bit expensive. They still pay less per capita than Americans.

[MagellansUnderwear]

Here's the real conspiracy , people. Major insurance companies own a lot of politicians from both parties. if UHC gets passed, they will lose some money, so they threaten to cut off campaign funding and such to the politicians they own if UHC gets passed. The result? you have the GOP misleading the public, and democrats afraid to vote for fear of losing their seat. That's the conspiracy here people, it's not taking your rights away, it's preventing some people from losing their money

[lynchmobb2000]

@MagellansUnderwear

A-FUCKING-MEN! Couldn't agree more.

37 other industrialized countries actually make basic for-profit healthcare illegal. We are the only indusctrialized country that allows and even encourages it.

[freesk8]

Let's be explicit about what a MANDATE is.

It is just another word for FORCE.

The government will FORCE people to have insurance by law. And all law is backed up, or enforced, at the point of a gun. If you do not have the insurance, and will not pay for it, the cops come and take you to jail.  They bring their guns, because if you resist arrest, they will use the guns to threaten you.

Government is force.

Whenever you advocate a law forcing a peaceful person to do something, Gandhi frowns.

[DeletedDelusion]

You know why the government should have the right to mandate health insurance?

Because if you can't pay for your medical bills anymore and have to file for bankruptcy and become a social case, you will live from government money.

So basically, you already had single-payer system in the US, for decades...

[hozehd]

This is why the health care bill will wither and die. Make everyone pay cash, its the only fair way. Third party payments are the cause of high prices. Mandating us all to buy health insurance is slavery.

[lynchmobb2000]

@hozehd

"Make everyone pay cash"

What should a poor child with no cash do for cancer treatment?

What should any middle class person do when their medical bills $100k's above their policy?

"Mandating us all to buy health insurance is slavery."

Those who can't afford the mandated insurance will have their premium subsidized by the govt.

What a horrible slavery indeed! To have to have free healthcare, wiht no chance of financial ruin ever!

[hozehd]

"What should any middle class person do when their medical bills $100k's above their policy?"

Government involvement in health care along with insurance company 3rd party payments is why our care is so expensive.

having free health care does not provide you with " no chance of financial ruin ever." However it will provide you with a government who can justify micromanaging your life as though you were its property.

[MagellansUnderwear]

I think you'll find the main reasons for the rising costs of health care stem from the costs of malpractice insurance, and the desire for profit, along with the rising cost of medicines and supplies and medical education and licensing and lawyers and so on and so forth. government interference is at this juncture pretty low on the list of reasons.

[hozehd]

So you don't see how government interference affects the price of medical education or licensing or the rising cost of medicine.

[peacerebelgirl]

i don't use conventional medicine - why should i be forced to buy insurance i have no use for?

[toosinbeymen]

Why? It's like any other form of insurance. You never know when you'll need it.

[lynchmobb2000]

@pearcerebelgirl

If, god forbid, you have a catastrophic illness like a bad car accident, you will burden the rest of the us with the costs of your care if you are uninsured.

This is one of the main factors in the meteoric rise of the cost of health insurance.

The govt will subsidize your premium if you can't afford it.

[truthadvocate]

When you say "The govt will subsidize your premium" what you really mean is the government will borrow money from other countries to pay for your premium, and then will steal it from our children when they start to work. Government doesn't subsidize anything. They don't generate any of their own wealth. They steal it. And most of the wealth they steal is used to benefit the rich friends of politicians.

[lynchmobb2000]

@truthadvocate

You can dislike the govt all you like. All I want from you is consistency. Don't use public roads, tunnels, bridges, ports etc. Don't use the Post Office or UPS. Decline FDIC insurance on your bank deposits. Because otherwise you are a hypocrite.

Also, let's see how the free market functions with Limited Liability and Contract enforcement by government. Since government basically creates free markets with these tools, the free market can't exist without it.

[freesk8]

"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson.

You can't make it impossible to function in the nation one was born in, and then require self destruction to avoid hypocrisy.

Free markets exist in areas where governments do not reach. All you need for free markets is property rights and free trade. Property rights can be mutually agreed upon and defended cooperatively. Private security forces can be hired. They work better than police for property crimes.

[lynchmobb2000]

@freesk8

"Free markets exist in areas where governments do not reach"

You are in need of an education junior. The government creates markets by sanctioning "limited liability" and enforcing contracts. Without either of those, there are no markets period.

"Property rights can be mutually agreed upon and defended cooperatively"

I say you wrong. You say I am wrong. Who decides?

"They work better than police for property crimes."

And for allllllllllll the other crimes?

Clueless

[freesk8]

Limited liability is not necessary for a free market. In fact, according to the Austrian School of Economics (and others) limited liability is not compatible with free market principles. Corporate personhood is an invention of government, not the free market.

Murders are a tiny minority of crimes and would be drastically reduced without the government-created and foolish drug war. Most other crimes are simple assault or property crimes.

But I'm a minarchist. I'll keep the police.

[eirefrance]

Why are you forced to pay taxes when you don't support a war/have children in school/own a car/etc...? Because we are a society and we need each of us to pitch in to keep it from collapsing in debt the way our free market, individualist, capitalist, self-centered society is about to. But, hey, I'm sure you could go live on a houseboat in the middle of the ocean with noone else around you.

[truthadvocate]

"Self-centered society" Very few people are more self centered than politicians. I don't know a single person that's apposed to the concept of pitching in. They just want to pitch in to something they support. Not to be forced to pitch in to something they oppose. Forcing 300 million people to "pitch in" to the political agenda of small minded politicians is VERY SELF-CENTERED.

[m0nkeybl1tz]

Well, uninsured people cost the taxpayers money. If someone shows up in the ER and can't pay for their treatment, the cost falls on the people who do pay.

[truthadvocate]

Nobody should force one person to serve another. That's slavery. Government forcing hospitals to serve patients that dont pay is slavery. Patients that don't pay are stealing & slapping the hands that helped them. Instead hold patients accountable. Put them on a financing plan. Require them to seek charity assistance. If they dont pay, they should not be treated again. If people were held accountable everyone would have insurance because they would see it as necessary as food & water.

[Derleiter17]

so allowing a society where the less fortunate die due to circumstance is freedom?

[truthadvocate]

Freedom is being able to voluntarily help the less fortunate directly, instead of having the overwhelming majority of your taxes given to politically connected banks, bureaucrats, political campaign contributors, interest on national debt, Ponzi schemes, the war on terrorism, the war on drugs, armies of rude incompetent government employees, ridiculously expensive modern sculpture monstrosities in public parks - you get the picture.

[Derleiter17]

Good point but then capitalism and in fact consumerism would cease to function. Neither could run (at least as we know) without the sluggish bureaucratic practices you outlined. Lets get rid of money in general and turn to a more resource based economy. Dare i even say a utilitarian state.

[truthadvocate]

Every mandate is one freedom stolen from every man woman and child.

[eirefrance]

And every man, woman and child living in with a chronic, untreated disease is one life stolen.  But, I know, you can't treat people of their diseases. Thats slavery. Oh, wait, no its not. Slavery is when you forced, through actual violence, to work for no compensation. I'm sorry, I almost sounded like a hyperbolic idiot there.

[truthadvocate]

eirefrance, "Slavery is when you are forced, through actual violence, to work for no compensation" Thanks for proving my point. The government FORCES healthcare workers to serve patients by law. Those patients don't COMPENSATE the healthcare worker. If someone resists the law, they are fined. If they resist the fine, they are improsoned. If they resist imprisonment, they are VIOLENTLY abducted or shot. According to your definition, that's slavery.

[DeletedDelusion]

So doctors should against their Hippocratic oath stop treating poor people and leave them to die on the streets I guess?

Later, we probably should just leave their bodies there to rot away on the pavement if nobody will pay for their "disposal"....

Because the only way public money ought to be spent is for new jet-fighters and tanks....

[MagellansUnderwear]

This is actually close to the way I feel about this thing. It blows my mind that people can't grasp what a boon UHC is in the long run, and it further blows my mind the underhanded tactics of the GOP in fighting it. Even in the U.K. where the health care system is sub par compared to the rest of western Europe, Per capita spending on health care is much lower than in the US. This big brother shit about doctors euthanizing old people and such is some tinfoil hat crap.

[truthadvocate]

There are many reasons our healthcare comes at a high price. One is the technology & advancements in medicine available to us. The other several reasons can all be traced back to government policy. The FDA, hidden costs of third party payer system, reduced competition, laws requiring excessive training, limitations on who can provide services, restrictions on patient provider agreements, excessive lawsuits, excessive paperwork, reduced patient choice, mandated unnecessary coverages...

[MagellansUnderwear]

You neglected to mention possibly the largest contributor. Malpractice insurance. Back to Insurance.

That and we're looking at health care the wrong way. We are approaching it as a business, and that is why the system is so broken. It is broken too

We are looking at something essential to survival in the same way we are looking at running a 7-11

[truthadvocate]

MagellansUnderwear, you might have heard this before, but isn't food essential to survival. And doesn't the market (as a collection of businesses) provide that for you just fine?

[MagellansUnderwear]

two weeks worth of groceries does not cost thousands of dollars, where as an ER visit can easily cost this much and more.

[truthadvocate]

As you know that's why companies provide insurance. I have a high deductible insurance plan. It's just over 100 dollars per month. Most people spend 100 dollars per week on food.

I had a surgery last year. Like any patient the hospital allowed me to pay the bill over time with no interest. It's much better to pay off a high deductible than to lose your leg. If your life & your body is your most precious possession, then why are people not willing to pay any price to extend their life?

[DeletedDelusion]

Thanks for the reply.

Talking about euthanazia, here in Switzerland (unlike most other European countries) most people are insured by private companies and I don't know a single European country (besides the Netherlands maybe), who has looser regulations on euthanazia then Switzerland, heck terminally ill people from England and Germany (coutries with a single payer system) especially come here to get euthanized, we even have a word for it "Sterbetourismus".

[truthadvocate]

DeletedDelusion, just because I'm opposed to the use of violent force, does not mean I'm apposed to the treatment of poor people. No mentally healthy human being wants to live in a world where the poor are dying & rotting on the street. The people will not allow your nightmare scenario to come true. First of all, the people who are currently taking advantage of the system will not allow their lives to become that desperate. Those who truly need the support of others will receive it voluntarily

[DeletedDelusion]

Dude, we live in a world where the poor are dying and sometimes rot in the streets, luckily not in front of our door though, but it still happens

Wealthy pleople only will give a damn if they live close enough to the troubled places, feel conected to the people or hope to gain some PR for their help.

[truthadvocate]

And please don't assume I'm a blood thirsty war mongering psycho. People like me who are against governments initiating force against others are against governments initiating any kind of force, including jet fighters and tanks.

[DeletedDelusion]

Well, if you affiliate yourself with a guy from the Cato institute, what other conclusion should I come to?

[dabigez357]

ofcourse not...everything the government touches turns to shit! you really think this will turn out well? come on people!

[toosinbeymen]

Really? How about VA healthcare? Ask a vet that uses it how good or bad it is compared to private health insurance.

What about social security? That's a government program that is VERY successful.

Try not listening to Rush and Glenn and BillO for a while and think for yourself.

[dabigez357]

what? i know vets...its not that great , especially when their older and really in need! not to mention 1/4 million vets that are homeless...way to so you care {gov} social security LOL can you spell "bankrupt"! like the rest of the government! you just wait, whats to come down the line for us! oh i don't listen to any propaganda no matter what side it comes from....i inform from my own common sense from history and presidents facts , evidence! peace because i have said mine!

[eirefrance]

Its not that great? Yeah, welcome to the real world, buddy. Any time you want to jump in, feel free. "Not that great" is leagues and leagues better than "Denied" or "Not covered by your policy". But, I know, I know, hyperbole has become an argument. Taxation is violence and laws are slavery, right?

[dabigez357]

lets just except all things as usual, right... that exb.A people who think this way!

[truthadvocate]

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme, only worse. It doesn't fool people into investing. It forces them too. Plus all the funds have been drained. It's a scam that has piled 10 trillion dollars of debt on the backs of our children. The people who run it should be spending multiple lifetimes in prison.

[Mastikator]

Yay tyranny :/