While biblical archaeology may not prove that Jesus was the Messiah, or Moses parted the Red Sea, it does prove that the technology written about in the Bible was congruent with current findings. Technology written about in the Book of Mormon - steel swords, chariots, metallurgy - is contradictory to archaelogical findings. What this means is due to current archaeological findings, the Bible COULD be true. The Book of Mormon could not.
You forgive the Bible when talking about the things "not found," and you say the Bible is believeable because of what "has been found." That is fair, and that is what BYP is saying.
You dismiss the Book of Mormon because of the things "not found," and ignore the things that "have been found." That is unfair, and that is what BYP is also saying. cont....
For a hundred years, Joseph Smith and the BOM were ridiculed, because "everyone" knew the native Americans were not advanced enough to produce cement. Yet, Teotihuacan is covered with ancient cement that has lasted 1500 years. The BOM describes battles, metal records in stone boxes, ancient writing, cities, temples, towers, palaces, barley, etc... All were thought impossible in 1830. (fairlds.org)
Can you be as fair and forgiving of the BOM as you are of the Bible?
@GaryKColeman Teotihuacan is located 2,000 miles from the Hill Cumorah. To associate any archaeological finds in Teotihuacan with Manchester, New York is similar to finding a book in Mali, Africa describing steel, iron, and chain mail dated around the year 1,000 and using evidence from medieval England to prove it. From Newfoundland to Ireland is less than 2,000 miles - one could use evidence from Europe to support Native American technology!
You are absolutely right. There is no archaeological evidence in New York. That is why serious LDS scholars place the Book of Mormon story in Mesoamerica where cement has been found.
@GaryKColeman So why was the B.O.M. found in New York instead of Mesoamerica? Why does the B.O.M. go to great lengths to describe the flora, fauna, and technology (swords, metallurgy) of Mesoamerica and then mentions absolutely nothing about the culture, technology, or geography of the place where it was buried?
The BOM is the history of a people who lived in Mesoamerica for about 1000 years. I think a description of that area would be a natural thing to write about.
Moroni was the last guardian of the BOM records and the last suvivor of his people. He traveled to the area we now call New York and buried the records before he died.
I have no idea why he didn't write about it, but I also can't think of a reason why he should describe it.
@GaryKColeman You can think of a reason to describe Mesoamerica, but not upstate New York? Why not? A person should be very descriptive in their writing in one reigion but not another? Why not? In order for the B.O.M. to be based on Mesoamerican events/locations, Moroni had to be very descriptive about Mesoamerica, and then travel 2,000 miles without writing a single word about the flora, fauna, technology, etc. that he saw along the way. How long would it take to walk 2,000 miles?
Wow! I didn't realize that I am responsible for explaining why someone didn't provide a travelog of his last trip before his death. I can't even explain why Jacob's son Joseph didn't give a description of Egypt. Especially, the name of the pharaoh he worked for. The Israelites were in Egypt for 4 hundred years, but they gave us very little. Moses gave a travelog, but archaeologists can't find anything to support it. Not even an empty chicken soup can.
@GaryKColeman In Moroni 9:2, he talks about swords, and then in Moroni 10:34 (the very last verse in the B.O.M.) he states, "I soon go to rest in the paradise of God". So in order for your story to be true, Moroni had to know he was dying, and decided to make a 2,000+ mile trip from Teotihuacan to upstate New York, mentioning nothing along the way - not a single word, then bury the plates in the Hill Cumorah and die pretty quickly, right?
Moroni starts writing in chapter 8 of "Mormon." He finishes the book because his father commanded him to do it. When Moroni starts his book, he says he has been hiding from the Lamanites and did not think that he would live to write any more. For some reason, he writes about ordaining teachers & priests, and administering the sacrament, and repentance & baptism. He thinks that is more important than a travelog of his 20 yrs of wandering since the final battle at Cumorah.
@GaryKColeman The reason he writes about ordaining teachers & priests, and administering the sacrament is so that Joseph Smith could have some sacred basis for the way his church was run. There never was any Moroni that travelled more than 2,000 miles for no reason - Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon - it is an act of fiction. When you have to say "For some reason, that I'm not sure of" over and over, chances are it's a fake.
@GaryKColeman Ask your bishop (or any member of the church, for that matter) if Moroni took a trip from Mesoamerica to upstate New York, a 2,000-mile trip, to bury the plates. This is an idea that is not the common consensus in the LDS church. Ask your bishop why the Book of Mormon is very descriptive of the land of Mesoamerica, but not of upstate New York. I would really like to know what he says.
Let's ask some questions about the Bible. Archaeologists have been working in Egypt for about 200 yrs. Nothing has been found to confirm that some Hebrew kid became second to Pharaoh, or that a bunch of Israelites lived in Egypt for 400 yrs. Moses gave a travelog of his journey to Canaan, but nothing has been found to show that he and a million people ever spent 40 yrs on the Sinai Peninsula, no graves, no campsites, Nothing. You have to wonder why.
Archaeology has proved that modern humans showed up about 150,000 yrs ago, and that the earth has been around for billions of years. Our galaxy has 200 billion stars and there are 100 billion galaxies, all older than the earth.
DNA has shown that Y-chromosomal Adam probably lived 65,000 yrs ago, and mitochondrial Eve lived some 150,000 yrs ago in Africa. It also shows that 1 to 4 percent of our genome is Neanderthal.
If you believe that the Bible is the inerrant, literal word of God, ask your pastor some questions. Not phoney questions about flora & fauna and a hike in the desert, but serious ones like: why did God lie about the age of the earth, or about creating it & the heavens in only 7 days, or about Adam and Eve being the first humans, or about leading Moses & the Israelites to Canaan.
When you have to say "I'm not sure" over and over, chances are it is fake.
While biblical archaeology may not prove that Jesus was the Messiah, or Moses parted the Red Sea, it does prove that the technology written about in the Bible was congruent with current findings. Technology written about in the Book of Mormon - steel swords, chariots, metallurgy - is contradictory to archaelogical findings. What this means is due to current archaeological findings, the Bible COULD be true. The Book of Mormon could not.
MattBeckstrom 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
You forgive the Bible when talking about the things "not found," and you say the Bible is believeable because of what "has been found." That is fair, and that is what BYP is saying.
You dismiss the Book of Mormon because of the things "not found," and ignore the things that "have been found." That is unfair, and that is what BYP is also saying. cont....
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
For a hundred years, Joseph Smith and the BOM were ridiculed, because "everyone" knew the native Americans were not advanced enough to produce cement. Yet, Teotihuacan is covered with ancient cement that has lasted 1500 years. The BOM describes battles, metal records in stone boxes, ancient writing, cities, temples, towers, palaces, barley, etc... All were thought impossible in 1830. (fairlds.org)
Can you be as fair and forgiving of the BOM as you are of the Bible?
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@GaryKColeman Teotihuacan is located 2,000 miles from the Hill Cumorah. To associate any archaeological finds in Teotihuacan with Manchester, New York is similar to finding a book in Mali, Africa describing steel, iron, and chain mail dated around the year 1,000 and using evidence from medieval England to prove it. From Newfoundland to Ireland is less than 2,000 miles - one could use evidence from Europe to support Native American technology!
MattBeckstrom 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
You are absolutely right. There is no archaeological evidence in New York. That is why serious LDS scholars place the Book of Mormon story in Mesoamerica where cement has been found.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@GaryKColeman So why was the B.O.M. found in New York instead of Mesoamerica? Why does the B.O.M. go to great lengths to describe the flora, fauna, and technology (swords, metallurgy) of Mesoamerica and then mentions absolutely nothing about the culture, technology, or geography of the place where it was buried?
MattBeckstrom 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
The BOM is the history of a people who lived in Mesoamerica for about 1000 years. I think a description of that area would be a natural thing to write about.
Moroni was the last guardian of the BOM records and the last suvivor of his people. He traveled to the area we now call New York and buried the records before he died.
I have no idea why he didn't write about it, but I also can't think of a reason why he should describe it.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@GaryKColeman You can think of a reason to describe Mesoamerica, but not upstate New York? Why not? A person should be very descriptive in their writing in one reigion but not another? Why not? In order for the B.O.M. to be based on Mesoamerican events/locations, Moroni had to be very descriptive about Mesoamerica, and then travel 2,000 miles without writing a single word about the flora, fauna, technology, etc. that he saw along the way. How long would it take to walk 2,000 miles?
MattBeckstrom 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
Wow! I didn't realize that I am responsible for explaining why someone didn't provide a travelog of his last trip before his death. I can't even explain why Jacob's son Joseph didn't give a description of Egypt. Especially, the name of the pharaoh he worked for. The Israelites were in Egypt for 4 hundred years, but they gave us very little. Moses gave a travelog, but archaeologists can't find anything to support it. Not even an empty chicken soup can.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@GaryKColeman In Moroni 9:2, he talks about swords, and then in Moroni 10:34 (the very last verse in the B.O.M.) he states, "I soon go to rest in the paradise of God". So in order for your story to be true, Moroni had to know he was dying, and decided to make a 2,000+ mile trip from Teotihuacan to upstate New York, mentioning nothing along the way - not a single word, then bury the plates in the Hill Cumorah and die pretty quickly, right?
MattBeckstrom 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
Moroni starts writing in chapter 8 of "Mormon." He finishes the book because his father commanded him to do it. When Moroni starts his book, he says he has been hiding from the Lamanites and did not think that he would live to write any more. For some reason, he writes about ordaining teachers & priests, and administering the sacrament, and repentance & baptism. He thinks that is more important than a travelog of his 20 yrs of wandering since the final battle at Cumorah.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@GaryKColeman The reason he writes about ordaining teachers & priests, and administering the sacrament is so that Joseph Smith could have some sacred basis for the way his church was run. There never was any Moroni that travelled more than 2,000 miles for no reason - Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon - it is an act of fiction. When you have to say "For some reason, that I'm not sure of" over and over, chances are it's a fake.
MattBeckstrom 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
Chapters 8 and 9 are epistles from his father. When he writes chapter 10--his dying testimony--he is in New york and ready to bury the plates.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@GaryKColeman Ask your bishop (or any member of the church, for that matter) if Moroni took a trip from Mesoamerica to upstate New York, a 2,000-mile trip, to bury the plates. This is an idea that is not the common consensus in the LDS church. Ask your bishop why the Book of Mormon is very descriptive of the land of Mesoamerica, but not of upstate New York. I would really like to know what he says.
MattBeckstrom 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
Let's ask some questions about the Bible. Archaeologists have been working in Egypt for about 200 yrs. Nothing has been found to confirm that some Hebrew kid became second to Pharaoh, or that a bunch of Israelites lived in Egypt for 400 yrs. Moses gave a travelog of his journey to Canaan, but nothing has been found to show that he and a million people ever spent 40 yrs on the Sinai Peninsula, no graves, no campsites, Nothing. You have to wonder why.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
Archaeology has proved that modern humans showed up about 150,000 yrs ago, and that the earth has been around for billions of years. Our galaxy has 200 billion stars and there are 100 billion galaxies, all older than the earth.
DNA has shown that Y-chromosomal Adam probably lived 65,000 yrs ago, and mitochondrial Eve lived some 150,000 yrs ago in Africa. It also shows that 1 to 4 percent of our genome is Neanderthal.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
@MattBeckstrom
If you believe that the Bible is the inerrant, literal word of God, ask your pastor some questions. Not phoney questions about flora & fauna and a hike in the desert, but serious ones like: why did God lie about the age of the earth, or about creating it & the heavens in only 7 days, or about Adam and Eve being the first humans, or about leading Moses & the Israelites to Canaan.
When you have to say "I'm not sure" over and over, chances are it is fake.
GaryKColeman 9 months ago
But the Book of Mormon is biblical interpretation, Kerry.
athono 11 months ago
Biblical Revisionist history back in the time of the scribes. Why am I not surprised?
EltonJThe 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
dead horse
–noun
1. something that has ceased to be useful or relevant.
—Idiom
2. beat / flog a dead horse, to persist in pursuing or trying to revive interest in a project or subject that has lost its usefulness or relevance.
3. exempli gratia, "asking, where is Zarahemla?"
canadianbacon007 11 months ago
Comment removed
canadianbacon007 11 months ago
This is to keep someone to say "first" like a retard.
michaelgrella 11 months ago