I thuink there are 2 sticking points.Travel concessions (which are are not part of the contract) and the re-instatment of staff dismissed due to gross misconduct. The most notable being that total Idiot Holley!
fuck unite. I was booked on the they fucking unite striked like a baby. That day was so shitty I always cursed unite bitched to die like pigs. They should be grateful to have jobs like this while most others are still unemployed.. so FUCK YOU UNITE!
Not one comment in the video is relevant to the present situation, its so sad to see educated people with an understanding of life and all its it complexities, manipulated by a union that would have put our lights out during the 3 day week. If its not broke dont fix it, BA is BROKE
Not one comment is relevant to the present situation, its so sad to see educated people with an understanding of life and all its it complexities, manipulated by a union that would have put our lights out during the 3 day week. If its not broke dont fix it, BA is BROKE
BA are seeking a high court injunction to stop the next round of strikes..I don't think there is any support for the strikes from within BA's workforce (and I should know because I work there). When will this madness end?
The members of Unite should be ashamed of themselves. The Unite fatcats have no public support left. So let them go on their strike, let them go on protecting their outdated and ridiculously lavish benefits unmatched by any other airline and let them go on making the lives of thousands of passengers a real misery. It will catch up with them eventually. I am no right-winger but seeing their behaviour is making me crave Maggies return in order to have their lot put back in the box
Who do you think you are! All the comments stated through this video are the problem with the service! By striking all you are doing is aggravating the problem and annoying the customers! who you say that you are trying to help and improve the service towards! Idiots
Poor Heathrow British Airways cabin crew being asked to work under the same conditions BUT with DOUBLE the pay of their British Airways cabin crew colleagues at Gatwick. Oh, I feel so sorry for you. Heathrow crew need to get on with your job like those at Gatwick and stop trying to destroy a great airline...or you will have NO job at all.
Disgusting that the BA Executives award themselves £3miliion in shares a day before the strike.
Airline in crisis? I dont think so. The company is being run by a bunch of incompetants hell bent on lining their own pockets before moving on to their next victims.
Sadly - it will be the staff left to pick up the pieces and rebuild all ties within each department of the company which has now been torn apart by back stabbers, scabs and untrustworthy pilots.
yachtno1 @ mr historyman ... top salary on the old contract is in excess of £60k...and blaming the company rather than the workers is a too easy get out ..
When BA announced record losses of £401 million in May of last year, Walsh announced that he would work for free in July. He has declined his bonus for the past three years however, an extra £90,000 was paid into his pension pot last year and similar amounts were deposited in the previous two. He has since accepted a pay rise of 6%; taking his salary to £735,000.
Competition gluts our markets and in order for BA to compete with the cheaper budget airlines, it needs to cut costs. Unfortunately it is the cabin crew who has been made to pick up the bill. Why should they tamely submit to an attack on their standards of living and their terms and conditions, simply because of the rotton system that rewards only the likes of Walsh?
Unlike you I did fight for our Country (13 years, Army). I also joined a union when I started work after I left.
In todays economical climate you should be happy to be in work. You are shooting yourselves in the foot. People will move to other carriers and not return to BA (I know of a few already) without customers you'll have no job. Try living on £64.28 a week jobseekers allowance.
@Ken31158 Why would I want to try living on jobseekers allowance? I've been employed by the same company since the age of 16 and I enjoy excellent pay, good conditions and a final salary pension scheme. What`s more, as long as I`ve got my health, I will retire at 65. What exactly is your argument? You seem to be saying that the BA cabin crew should take all the shit that is flung at them because there is a war on. Call the strike off; Ken was in the Army!
@skcodyerrus What I was trying to do was enlighten you to your good conditions of employment as compared to those of Our Forces, and when you next meet one complain to them about how badly you are treated. I would like to know if you don't end up on your arse.
As regards to the Army you brought it up about your ol' man did his bit, just pointing out so have I along with countless others. - Unlike you!
No doubt you'll be striking over the loss of your free flights next????
@Ken31158 Considering I`m more than twice the age of most servicemen serving with our forces; I agree that I`d proberbly get a pasting from a battle harderned soldier at the peak of his fitness. Pair me with anyone my age and weight and I would give myself at least a 90% chance of putting them on their arse. But of course your opinion is hypothetical. I wouldn`t approach a plummer, a dustman or a merchant banker to discuss the strike; so why would I want to approach a member of the forces?
@skcodyerrus@Ken31158 You were not trying to enlighten me of my good conditions of employment because you haven`t got a clue what I do for a living. When the brave men and women who are serving our country leave the forces, they will be looking for employment in 'Civvy Street'. Some of those in the ranks will no doubt choose to join a trade union. Are you saying that when those ex-servicemen and women are in their new jobs they should take all the shit that is thrown at them without a fight?
@skcodyerrus I'm nearly twice the age I was when I left at the age of 30, so I guess we're about the same age now.
6ft 1in 13 1/2 stone, am I in your 90% enchatchment zone???
However I would approach anybody into dialogue over a view I believed to be true - you however have nothing to offer except pathetic nonsense, not once have you mentioned your reasons for striking or are you all sheep - the blind following the blind .......bharr bharrrr!!
@Ken31158 A high percentage of those recently employed are either retired police officers or from the Army and Navy. The main reason for this is because they can adhere to the industry`s rules and regulations when carrying out there duties. Many of these ex-servicemen (just like me) are active trade unionists. My union, just like the miners and steelworkers before, are always the first group of workers to help another group of workers.
@skcodyerrus I'm nearly twice the age I was when I left at the age of 30, so I guess we're about the same age now.
6ft 1in 13 1/2 stone, am I in your 90% enchatchment zone???
However I would approach anybody into dialogue over a view I believed to be true - you however have nothing to offer except pathetic nonsense, not once have you mentioned your reasons for striking or are you all sheep - the blind following the blind .......bharr bharrrr!!
@Ken31158 I work within the same industry as my father and grandfather. I started at 16 and fully expect to retire at 65. As soon as I entered the job, I joined the union just as my forefathers did. I had to wait eight years before I could do the same job that they had been so proud to do. Within the past 15 years (since privatisation) the company that I work for have actively recruited from outside the industry.
@Ken31158 I have already pointed out that my father has fought for his country and indeed my grandfather fought in Salonika, Flanders and Dublin between 1914-1919. They were both trade unionists who were involved in many strikes from 1926 onwards; and are still well known within my industry. I am immensly proud of my heritage and I would never speak out against another working class person. What exactly have you contributed to this debate?
If you work for British Airways and have been on strike this week, next time you see a Marine/Soldier/Sailor/Airman who's returned from Afghanistan make sure you tell him/her about your awful working conditions, poor uniform and low pay!! Let me know how you get on....
@Ken31158 My ol` man fought for his country and was an active trade unionist until the day he retired. He wasn`t a Colonel, Major or Lieutenant; he was a working class man in the ranks. Infact he is still a member of our union`s retired members` section and campaigns for pensioners` rights. He wasn`t the first ex-serviceman to join a trade union and he certainly won`t be the last!
BA have announced that of all the flights that were due to leave from Heathrow today, 184 departed and 131 were cancelled (72%). Take into account those customers who had switched their flights to rival airlines; that figure is infact much higher. Keep up your brave and dignified fight cabin crew. Attacking the standard of living of the lowest paid workers is not the answer to the ineptitude of BA management.
@Bassalies Please would you elaborate on the details of the three year paydeal? Was the RPI figure teken into account? What did you the management want in return for this? A three year deal would never have been acceptable given the current uncertainties of the world economy. How much was the proposed bonus payment? Please give details of this extra staff ticket. Not much use when you can travel to Spain with a rival airline for a pony!
@Bassalies So do you work for that management consulting firm who is fuelling this whole dispute? You know the one; that big firm of yanks round the back of the Criterian. It is either that or you`re BA management, coming on here to spread your vile propaganda and lies. Perhaps you`re the company lackey? Maybe you`re just a Scab?
Walsh is seeking an agreement to cut 2,000 cabin crew and introduce a payfreeze. Considering the extra work that will have to be undertaken by the remaining crew and the fact that RPI is now at over 3% and rising, I call that a paycut. The standard of living of BA cabin crew and their families are under attack from Walsh. All this after he has accepted a 6% pay rise and seen vast amounts of money deposited into his pension fund. Why do you support Walsh and jealously attack the cabin crew?
"...has had the nerve to ask the cabin crew to accept a pay cut. "
BA hasn't asked Cabin Crew to take a pay cut. They have asked for the same staffing that is now in place, with Unite/BASSA's agreement, at Gatwick.
The problem is that BASSA reacted with such hysteria, representing the interests of the Union rather than Cabin Crew, to striking Cabin Crew's detriment.
Walsh has refused to accept his bonus for the past three years. However, £90,000was paid into his pension fund last year and similar amounts were deposited the previous two. When BA announced record losses of £401 million pounds in May of last year, Walsh offered to work for free in July. He has since accepted a 6% pay rise taking his salary to £735,000. I cannot start to comprehend how the greedy little bastard has had the nerve to ask the cabin crew to accept a pay cut.
Competition gluts our markets and it is this that is driving down the wages of the BA cabin crew. Why should they have to tamely submit to an attack on their standard of living and their terms and conditions; simply because of the rotton system that rewards only the likes of Walsh. In order for BA to compete with the cheaper budget airlines it needs to cut costs. It is the cabin crew who has been made to pick up the bill.
So before anybody else on here comes out with that old chestnut: 'I`ll take my business elsewhere', or decides to fly to Malaga, Prague or Dublin for 25 quid, just remember that it is you who is condoning the very system that will eventually finish off British Airways we know it. Stop making villians out of the victims. If you want to jealously attack anybody, then attack Walsh!
I've been an Engineer with BA for more than 20 years. In that time my job has changed quite a bit and we now work more efficiently than we did. Unite's members haven't really gone with the flow and adapted to the modern realities. Hence they are now in thr firing line, and the rest of us who have broadly modernised are not.!
Do these staff not know we are in a recession and they are making their company loss millions, just hope they dont cause british airways to be the next airline to go into administartion because it would be the staffs own doing
There is no sympathy for the cabin crew! As a frequent flyer with BA I am appalled with Unite and the decision to strike. The cabin crews' job and responsibility is to serve the customers who pay their wages. I'm not paying for my flight because I want the cabin crew to have a comfortable lifestyle, I just want good service and to get from A to B as comfortably as possible. If this continues much longer I'll take my business elsewhere and I'm sure others will too!
@rtardkoolie them on strike should really grow up, I dont think you should take your business somewhere else, if its not over soon although that does seem like a good option, but it isnt going to solve anything other than BA struggling even more, Im sure BA are doing everything they can, and as for the striking staff, their jobs should be in jeopardy after this.
This is a pathetic video, your Union clearly just wants a fight with BA for the sake of fighting .
For Gods sake don't you realise by now that your cabin waiters not some critical component of the engine .Yes OK you've done an evacuation training course or two but for gods sake get real.
BA - I hope you wipe the floor with these idiots .
I work for one of the BA competitors and my working conditions are pretty poor; and the company treats us contemptuously. I certainly understand that working class people need a strong union behind them or ruthless twenty-first century business practice will see us all eating grass in the end. I hope the BA crew win their fight...it might just bring a glimmer of hope of a brighter future to those of us who are already downtrodden and treated like dirt.
would you like a glass of wine, oh i wont be a moment, i will just sort this seating problem, oh wait should i get him his wine first, and then sort out the seating problem, also that guy that brings home £1100 to £1400 pound omg i would love to get that, okay if we hadn't just had a credit crunch that left a lot of company's shutting down, then i might be just a little sympathetic with the cabin crew. but its due to the credit crunch why i'm still looking for job, sheesh
@MickyHollywood - Good point, get the wine first. That particular crew member is obviously a bad worker and should be fired, not promoted in a union promotion video!
If other workers, in your manipulative little example nurses and paramedicsare, are not being paid an acceptable amount than I suggest you join a campaign to organise against low pay instead of making silly comparisons with BA staff.
However the strike is not about pay, as you well know, it's about a number of issues including the imposition of terms and conditions over a negotiated settlement, staffing levels and job satisfaction. Unbelievable.
This is utter nonsense! The Cabin Crew at BA are a spoilt bunch of whingers...massivley overpaid for what they do compared to other airlines and people in similar customer service roles. They often justify this by suggesting they are the best in the industry - but as a frequent flyer I know that's simply not true -many of the older BA crew are some of the most arrogant and unwelcoming in the sky! Wake up and smell the coffee UNITE and your members - you don't know how lucky you are!
@TheSAH1973 Translated what you're saying is as long as I'm ok and my trips are not disrupted i couldn't really give a shit about the the BA workers. Top salary of £30k, £20k after ten years, all while Little Willie Walsh gets £750k and pockets huge bonuses. If the Cabin Crew you deal with are unfriendly its probably a reflection of the company rather than the workers.
Willie Walsh is a CEO of one of the UK's biggest companies, so you can hardly compare what his basic earnings should be versus a member of cabin crew. Be realistic. There are senior cabin crew at BA earning £50 - 60k salaries once allowances are taken into consideration. I do appreciate the contracts for new joiners aren't as lucrative but it’s a reasonable salary for the type of work and at the end of the day, if it isn't enough, choose another career.
@TheSAH1973 I think its very realistic to note Walsh gets increased share options worth more than most employees earn in ten years despite the fact he is presiding over ever increased losses. It is amusing to see how people like you justify their telephone number earnings on the basis of their 'success', yet when they fail they get multi million pound pay outs. Win, win for the management, loose, loose for the workers.
Win-win for the management? Tell that to the 1,000s of BA managers who have lost their jobs over the past 5 yrs - I didn't see the Cabin Crew coming out in their support? In a bid for survival, everyone at BA is having to make sacrifices, it is nonsense to suggest otherwise. But the crew, rather than do their bit seem bent on destroying the company. It's disgraceful.
@TheSAH1973 You ignore the important difference between middle and lower management and Walsh and the other fat cats sat at the top. None of Walsh's cronies have lost their jobs and they still award themselves increasing bonuses - while the cabin crew offered a pay cut! Not much sacrifice from the boys in the boardroom as usual.
@MrHistoryman45 Is that accurate? Are crew really being asked to take a pay cut? I don't think so. New joiners are to be offered more flexible contracts and CSDs are being asked to participate in service routines on LH flights.. existing crew aren't being asked to take pay cuts unlike other work groups within the company!
@TheSAH1973 The cabin crew offered a pay cut as part of a deal to resolve the situation. By all accounts BA is keen the main problem now is the refusal to restore travel concessions taken away during the strike. I appreciate that with your view of unions you will probably think its reasonable but no union will ever settle on those terms, Walsh knows it and is using it to prolong the strike to try and break the union.
You are in no position to question my frequent flyer status...and I'm afraid you are also sadly mistaken. I work for a large multinational company and, like me, many of my colleagues fly frequently. Unlike me, many of them prefer BA (I choose other carriers where I can as I know I get better service). However, they too share my disbelief at this strike. Stop kidding yourself...the public are not behind you on this!
Grow up cabin crew. You are already monumentally overpaid, 25-30k to push that trolley up and down? you have no support among the people Im afraid, you arent poor, you arent treated badly. seriously, if you dont like it, just leave? See how much you get paid and how many nice little perks you get doing a similar job on the ground. I love you guys btw, I fly BA everytime regardless of cost (which isnt that much more than budget) but this is going to wreck BA and destroy any respect you had.
It feels that BA Crew is the same as here in the US. United Airlines and it's management as it seems are treating the employees the same way here... The employees are working as hard as they can but they feel the short end of their budget as well...
Professionally trained and PAID aircrew can mean the difference between life and death in an emergency. Recall the passenger aircraft that landed in the Hudson river in New York not so long ago? It was the skill and bravery of the pilot and aircrew that meant that everyone got out safely. Aircrew live with that responsibility every day. Ask the passengers of that flight how much aircrew deserve to be paid and I think you will find that they have a rather higher opinion than some here.
its not actually the Aircrew that are striking its the cabin crew and i think you will find that none of them were flying that Airbus!!!
All the volunteers are properly trained iaw CAA requirements that includes first aid etc..etc..
This strike will do nothing but damage BA and bring resentment towards the Cabin Crew not to mention that they will have there Staff Travel privilages withdrawn for good.
It will be interesting who actually will go out the door come the 20th March
Like Spannerz20 I have cancelled my Unite membership too. I've said yes to the Single agreement and no pay rises for 2 years in my area of BA. I've worked for 20 years now at BA and can never say i've been unfairly treated, in fact i'm Damn lucky to have such a good job and I appreciate it 100%. I cannot any more put money into an organisation that are threatening my Job, Livelihood and future. I'm very angry with Unite.
Ok then, Walsh is paid the market rate so what? What has M&S workers pay got to do with this and are you sure of that? Union offer of pay cuts not enough and they wanted it paid back after 2 years, not a pay cut at all.
Leave the bread and butter earners alone, is this a race to the bottom of the pay scale? Walsh get paid MORE than the US president! BA is top heavy with managers. Pay less at the top & Stop cutting product. When they merge, Iberia crew are paid more than BA crew. CREW are great. M&S staff are paid more than Primark staff: thats expected. Crew offered over 50 million in savings last March.This is about BA trying to change their contracts forever, NOT cost savings because BA refused their offer.
And that's exactly why I cancelled my unite union subscription in December. Why would I want to continue funding such a shambolic detached from reality bunch of militant cretins ! Unite was born out of several mergers in a bid to increase the cash in the pockets and political leverage for those at the top. Unfortunately these mergers have created such a diverse union membership across departments within BA that actions to "support" one group are directly in contradiction to the will of others.
well done BA. Who the hell do these union members and cabin crew people think you are, you tried to ruin hard working men, women and childrens holidays, you nasty people. what goes around comes around
This Union is hell-bent on destroying the best airline in the world. I fly BA twice a year and I think the crew do a fab job and very polite and proud to be British.
I take home ALOT less than £1100-£1400 per month but have been told I am not entitled to the same tax credit mentioned here. Please explain. Unite seem to me to be an unnecessarily agressive union. I used to work for a heilcopter manufacturer in the South West when I left college and remember being quite intimidated by the hardline unionists and if I ever expressed an opinion that went against the union line it was dismissed out of hand and I was publicly mocked. So we generally stayed quiet.
Cheap flights/accommodation, living expenses and bonuses.
The cabin crew in particular at BA are massively overpaid, they are good, and I love them, but what does their job really entail day to day? Are they really worth twice the wage a nurse gets for instance?
Oh dear, more lies by Unite and BASSA. They really should stop this lying. The only people who don't seem to realise they are lies are those poor cabin crew who seem to be incapable of thinking for themselves. If there was any validity in their lies (which are easily proven to be lies), why are so many BA staff going to break the strike. Every one should also be aware of the BASSA bullying, harassment and threats.
Sadly, this video's perpetration of half truths and illogical assumption is so great that it has confirmed in my own mind that the actions of the Unions in this matter are wholly unjustified. The use of the word "Truth" should be jealously guarded and it should not used to try to give weight to a political stance. As an outside observer I am shocked at the lack of rationale that has been displayed by BA's Cabin Crew. They appear to have no support inside BA and none amongst my work circles.
There are 3 basic types of cabin crew at BA. The people on the old contract get paid above the industry standard. The people on the new contract are on around the industry standard. The crew at Gatwick are below the industry standard.
Hmm, I don't understand how the union believes throwing this tantrum and walking off the job will get their way.
It will make things worse, and BA will probably 'bleed to death'. Are the pilots agreeing with the CC's plight?
I am more interested in knowing what the Unite leaders, and perhaps the cabin crew themselves would do if they were in the position Willie Walsh is in - if you were loosing ridiculous amounts of money, wouldn't you try to save costs?
All cabin crew I know have University degrees ,your partner may do too therefore its not a matter of learning ability as insinuated its about two different jobs two sets of people do,and respect pilots constantly express opinions so its time we did too.
A very close family member of mine is a BA pilot thankfully of a different view than expressed by some here.
Open Skies dispute was not to benefit cabin crew.Go to CAA web site and check BA PILOTS and Cabin crew + other BA depts cost per head.
@bsaintly1 I was trying to point out that on average, I earn market rate for my education and training (+10% market rate uk), whereas the old contract csds dont come close.
Openskies has affected you - there is cabin crew in BA uniform doing your job now on different contracts.
Re pay comparison: of course we earn a lot more than you or an avergage office worker, as is the case in every other airline.
I do not agree with the hostile attitudes displayed here either (both sides)
I have managed to stay above this bickering but have eventually given in because of our pilots attitude towards our industrial situation.I have many personal pilot friends & enjoy their company and most recognise me but some have shown a resentment beyond their call.I marched with them i supported their view,& don't really resent their earning coz i chose my job/degree.I hv personally been attacked with comments.like yrs my T&C's are important to me.
I am hoping that your personal attacks on the flight crew community are purely because you are misinformed by your union or colleagues. Please do your research before posting. Regards, Pilot. (Earning half the basic salary of some Heathrow CSD's, having invested £80,000 and years in training and a university degree)
PS. I think both management and BASSA mishandled these negotiations and have respect for all my cabin crew colleagues. (I'm married to one as well!)
I didn't mean yr personal comments to me but frm others.
i know BASSA are protecting my T&C'd just as BALPA was yours. I hv kept a close eye on negotiations and am well placed to know what BA have been playing at and what their CONSULTANCY hv been playing at. You only need to read a few business books to see through this game .BASSA reps are crew and its their jobs as well at stake.
Pilots may hv resentments but divide & rule will also affect BALPA a 2 yr no strike deal for you .
Let me clear up some of the "misunderstandings" that crew are circulating about flight crew.
1) We earn the same as Virgin pilots per hour worked (Virgin fly fewer hours per year)
2) We will not get any shares, unless the company makes massive profits, which is very unlikely
3) Openskies was as much our battle as the cabin crews - except BASSA apparently didn't care about cabin crew being outsourced while BALPA was of the opinion that it WAS important.
bullywalsh you seem typical of the Bassa leadership in that you will not listen to anyone else but you wonderful union leaders. Anyone who has a different view is wrong, a liar ,management or all the above. This is not about what if its about flying one down and the CSD having to work a bit harder. The rest of BA, the city and the public see this as a battle that cannot be won by Bassa. So go back to your union website where the world has only one view and no body can question it.
Ruthlessinterloper,BASSA may be "the drunken family member that needs to be ostracised" as you put it ,however in my opinion some BALPA members need to be put into rehab to wean them back from their serious drug addiction of self importance ,superiority ,and invincibility .and to bring them back to reality that is BA under willie walsh.
With your HUGE WAGE PACKAGE no one in the company will be supporting you,and the rest of BA should know what you earn,and compare that with other UK PILOTS.
Yes ruthlessinterloper,its BA PILOTS HYPOCRACY thats in question.
BA pilots are giving up nothing really because they get it back in shares. To save our BA put your money where your mouth you need to take a serious wage cut in line with the other UK PILOTS ,and don't forget the far too generous PENSION SCHEME.
BA PILOTS ; IS IT TRUE THAT BRITISH AIRWAYS WAS CREATED FOR THE SOLE BENEFIT OF PILOTS !
Thats what it looks like when you seek strike action when your terms and conditions are affected and in the most recent case of BA's OPEN SKIES (launched in paris and amsterdam) which had nothing to do with your T&C's ,but criticise other groups when their legitimate T&C's are affected .
you are hypocrites in my opinion,and need to take a better look at your militant actions. YOU ARE NEXT IN WILLIES LIST.
Things have clearly got out of hand on both sides and a government body should intervene to resolve this because clearly BA and Unite can't. Both sides are at war and it's turning into a mess which can never be reversed.
exactly bsaintly if the noonys keep posting their vacuous shallow threats just keep posting the above message from BALPA my what a short memory they have, but we can still remind them can't we.
'We shall be pressing for a review of this law which has prevented British trade union members from protecting their careers. We shall be calling on MPs, MEPs and the International Labour Organisation to work with us to secure a better balance in this increasingly important international area of business. The right to strike has to be declared the overriding right, and BALPA wants others to join us to restore balance and fairness in industrial relations.
shall be calling on MPs, MEPs and the International Labour Organisation to work with us to secure a better balance in this increasingly important international area of business. The right to strike has to be declared the overriding right, and BALPA wants others to join us to restore balance and fairness in industrial relations.
2 years ago this appeared on the BALPA website - in the light of recent events perhaps it would be a good time for Jim McAuslan to restate his comittment to the right to take industrial action?
'We shall be pressing for a review of this law which has prevented British trade union members from protecting their careers. We shall be calling on MPs, MEPs and the International Labour Organisation to work with us to secure a better balance in this increasingly important international area of business. The right to strike has to be declared the overriding right, and BALPA wants others to join us to restore balance and fairness in industrial relations.
I'm not a pilot, I'm a consumer who is laughing my arse off at the mess you and your union got yourselves into. BA have enough problems and are quite capable of going down the pan with or without your help, but it's nice of you to help them along.
When you're all out of a job, where will you be then? Enjoy your time in the dole queue like millions of others, and get used to living on a lot less than you currently are.
When I joined BA, LGW crew were on similar wages to LHR. I was offered the contract that I'm on now. Why would I have questioned what others were earning? BA offered me that contract and now they would like to take it away. How is that right? LGW crew have it very tough. And now BA want to take away their right to transfer to LHR. BA will eat away at everything and pilots will be next!!!
and unfortunately this time, enough is enough. During the worst trading conditions this airline has ever faced you are threatening to strike? I'm sorry, people will not let UNTIE ruin this airline over a power show. P.S. don't go down the "you are all bus drivers" route, it's immature and lets be honest, if we turn that mentality around on you, it doesn't exactly put you in favourable light.........
BAsaviour you already have, why not go back a few post when your vitriol against crew was lets say 'immature' remember how you said your training up to do our job and other negative comments ? ? disgraceful comments you posted. immature ! well take a long hard look in the mirror.
Johndea, a minority of flightcrew have issues with cabin crew just as a minority of cabin crew have issues with flight crew. What does not help your case is stating "you are all arrogant" etc....the extremist attitude helps no one and is not welcome. No pilot I know has a vendetta against the entire cabin crew community, but every pilot I know has a strong one against the leadership of your union. It cannot go on like this with threats of strike over the school holidays/xmas every other year
during the Openskies dispute, BALPA made several phone calls to Sean Beatty to brief him but never made an approach for assistance. It is incorrect to say BALPA asked for support or indeed that any was given by BASSA either overtly or otherwise. What BASSA and many cabin crew seem to forget is that OS was not the Pilot's problem. Outsourcing of flight and cabin crew via subsidiary airlines was - and remains - a threat to all of our T&Cs (new fleet)
Would you support the LGW BA crew if they fought to have the same wages as the LHR crew and in order to do that the LHR salary would be cut? Would you take a pay cut for them? Didn't think so.
When you wanted to strike about the worrying effect of OpenSkies on your terms and conditions, we were with you all the way. We supported you. Why do you have to be so have to be so insulting about crew? We should have respect for each other? Isn't that the only way forward?
Heaven forbid ever having to sort out a seating problem! Would increasing their crew mean they'd have a dedicated seating problem crewmember? It's not a perfect world and everyone has to deal with things that go wrong, in any job!
You pilots are pathetic. Dont come looking to us for support next time you are in this situation. Cos it wont be long. You are all arrogant. Who do you think you are? You're just bus drivers!!
Nimrod379 get a grip, that topic of others wanting jobs has been covered see earlier comments, just like they're after yours too. Ooooh lots of resentment here been dump by a hostie have you ?
I wonder when UNITE/BASSA "produced" this appauling production to say, "I am BA cabin crew , WOE IS ME!" - whether they imagined for just one second that they would be getting MORE or LESS bad reaction from the public? Neutrinoghost, don't believe those figures for a second either, they are the figures for the GATWICK cabin crew who earn HALF what their counterparts at Heathrow do. Conveniently wheeled out when needed.
Well done nimrod379 - break the unions then working class individuals will never have a chance to stand up to corporate bullys who want the chance to pay there workers less and less only to reward themselves more and more.
Frankly if you don't like it, then fuck right off. There are millions in the the UK who have no job in this recession and would jump at the chance to fill your positions, so be grateful you fucking mugs.
OMG, that dude is complaining that he can't live on £1,100-£1,400 per month, that's exaclty what 'im on as a delivery driver and I've got plenty of spare cash!
Cabin crew salaries (CAA Figures) BMI 18K, Easyjet 20K, Monarch 17K, Thomas Cook 17K, Thomson 14K, Virgin 14K...........BA 29.9K! I don't want to bring up salaries but you constantly want to try and say how unfair it is that the Pilot's earn this much blah blah.........but when it comes down to gin clear comparisons, your arguments, as ever, fall flat. This dispute is not about salary, you're keeping ALL of yours under the BA deal. It's about 1 off an aircraft and the fact you had it imposed.
You could use the medical profession as an analogy. Doctors work alongside Nurses on the same wards and in the same theatres. Some nurses have servrd a long time, are very experienced and have very high qualification, beyond that needed for the job. All Dr's have a lengthy qualification process. Dr's earm more than Nurses. Does anyone consider that inappropriate?
your arguments are invalid bully, if you'd have cared to actually read the last few pages instead of covering your ears and shouting lalalalalala, you might actually learn something. Average 2008 Pilot salaries (CAA FIGURES): Monarch 80K, Thomas Cook 98K, Easyjet 70K, Virgin 89K, Thomson 78K, BMI 77K. You may not like it, but we're earning market rate + 10%. you're not.
bullywalsh, same old BASSA lies! Got out of NAPS a long time ago, took the CETV so nothing to lose actually!
if any genuine customers are reading, perhaps they'll have a few things to say over your 12 days of christmas stunt though! looks like a sift back through this thread or indeed ANY of the national press will soon open your blinkered eyes as to whose side the public is on. CLUE: it isn't yours.........
If any genuine customers are reading these comments isnt it sad that the person with most comments is flight crew no one else ? obviously terrified he will lose his pot of a 13 million payout in shares ?????
As a passenger (I fly for business) and shareholder I would like to put across what I see from my perspective, if I may. There are very few reasons why I and some of my colleagues still fly with BA and its obviously not because of the brand new aircraft, faultless entertainment system or innovative industry standard flat bed! I think it is because once on board I already feel I'm home. I don't want home to feel like Crawley town centre. I will not pay Michelin star money for McDonalds service!
"BA crew have offered more than any department"..........perhaps that's because your department is 14000 people + managers. Surely it stands to reason that if your department is bigger, you naturally contribute higher savings? IFCE is almost 5 times bigger than Flight ops.
747 flyerplanes, thank you for joining the debate. What you say is true but unfortunately those savings only equated to £52m. Also, those cuts (i.e. 2.6% paycut) were temporary, not permanent. Unpaid leave & part-time were aspirationally achieved. The list for part time was out the door! BASSA's latest proposal involves increasing crewing levels onboard to pre-imposition levels, giving BA until April to do this, they have suggested capping First class (!) and closing zones on board the aircraft
Yes and 90% of flight crew are wonderful just the odd weird bunch who try and dictate how other colleagues should act.
have you heard off relief pilots ? Many airlines are using them. Cathay Pacific, Air Canada, Continental Airlines, Egypt Air, Scandinavian Airlines. think they maybe on there way here very soon its a very good idea in my opinion.
call me what you like, but some people in this airline are not willing to let the likes of the people who put out that level of comms/hate mail to bring the company down. I am one of them. There are many more looking out for their OWN interest. Many thousand people have their mortgages and much much more riding on this and will be looking out for themselves- not those of BA cabin crew. fact
as I am sure YOU have all the figures from where?? BASSA?!!?! Actually the crew were very good, led by a good CSD(as most of them are) and many were concerned enough this time to actually come & chat to us on the flight deck about what to do. I have no problem with CC, but I do have a big problem with UNTIE/BASSA feeding them vitriolic, playground comms. The latest from Lizanne told Pilots to FOXTROT OSCAR. Could she leave herself more open..........
If so many people think that crew are overpaid and have a cushy lifestyle,well the job was there why didn't they go for it ?
bermudarailway 10 months ago
flying waiters and cleaners.
stublue44 1 year ago
I thuink there are 2 sticking points.Travel concessions (which are are not part of the contract) and the re-instatment of staff dismissed due to gross misconduct. The most notable being that total Idiot Holley!
yachtno1 1 year ago
I don't know of anyone who is supporting the strikers where I am ..
yachtno1 1 year ago
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fuck unite. I was booked on the they fucking unite striked like a baby. That day was so shitty I always cursed unite bitched to die like pigs. They should be grateful to have jobs like this while most others are still unemployed.. so FUCK YOU UNITE!
urashimakeitaro22 1 year ago
do you wear stockings
SuperBeverboy 1 year ago
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Not one comment in the video is relevant to the present situation, its so sad to see educated people with an understanding of life and all its it complexities, manipulated by a union that would have put our lights out during the 3 day week. If its not broke dont fix it, BA is BROKE
youwillBsorry 1 year ago
Not one comment is relevant to the present situation, its so sad to see educated people with an understanding of life and all its it complexities, manipulated by a union that would have put our lights out during the 3 day week. If its not broke dont fix it, BA is BROKE
youwillBsorry 1 year ago
Hilarious!!
amwe 1 year ago
BA are seeking a high court injunction to stop the next round of strikes..I don't think there is any support for the strikes from within BA's workforce (and I should know because I work there). When will this madness end?
yachtno1 1 year ago
The members of Unite should be ashamed of themselves. The Unite fatcats have no public support left. So let them go on their strike, let them go on protecting their outdated and ridiculously lavish benefits unmatched by any other airline and let them go on making the lives of thousands of passengers a real misery. It will catch up with them eventually. I am no right-winger but seeing their behaviour is making me crave Maggies return in order to have their lot put back in the box
andrejmach 1 year ago
Who do you think you are! All the comments stated through this video are the problem with the service! By striking all you are doing is aggravating the problem and annoying the customers! who you say that you are trying to help and improve the service towards! Idiots
aliuk14 1 year ago
Poor Heathrow British Airways cabin crew being asked to work under the same conditions BUT with DOUBLE the pay of their British Airways cabin crew colleagues at Gatwick. Oh, I feel so sorry for you. Heathrow crew need to get on with your job like those at Gatwick and stop trying to destroy a great airline...or you will have NO job at all.
Treeee38 1 year ago
Disgusting that the BA Executives award themselves £3miliion in shares a day before the strike.
Airline in crisis? I dont think so. The company is being run by a bunch of incompetants hell bent on lining their own pockets before moving on to their next victims.
Sadly - it will be the staff left to pick up the pieces and rebuild all ties within each department of the company which has now been torn apart by back stabbers, scabs and untrustworthy pilots.
2010strike 1 year ago 3
yachtno1 @ mr historyman ... top salary on the old contract is in excess of £60k...and blaming the company rather than the workers is a too easy get out ..
yachtno1 1 year ago
So what happens next? 2 strikes and no clamour for the negotiating table !
yachtno1 1 year ago
When BA announced record losses of £401 million in May of last year, Walsh announced that he would work for free in July. He has declined his bonus for the past three years however, an extra £90,000 was paid into his pension pot last year and similar amounts were deposited in the previous two. He has since accepted a pay rise of 6%; taking his salary to £735,000.
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
Competition gluts our markets and in order for BA to compete with the cheaper budget airlines, it needs to cut costs. Unfortunately it is the cabin crew who has been made to pick up the bill. Why should they tamely submit to an attack on their standards of living and their terms and conditions, simply because of the rotton system that rewards only the likes of Walsh?
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
Unlike you I did fight for our Country (13 years, Army). I also joined a union when I started work after I left.
In todays economical climate you should be happy to be in work. You are shooting yourselves in the foot. People will move to other carriers and not return to BA (I know of a few already) without customers you'll have no job. Try living on £64.28 a week jobseekers allowance.
Ken31158 1 year ago
@Ken31158 Why would I want to try living on jobseekers allowance? I've been employed by the same company since the age of 16 and I enjoy excellent pay, good conditions and a final salary pension scheme. What`s more, as long as I`ve got my health, I will retire at 65. What exactly is your argument? You seem to be saying that the BA cabin crew should take all the shit that is flung at them because there is a war on. Call the strike off; Ken was in the Army!
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
@skcodyerrus What I was trying to do was enlighten you to your good conditions of employment as compared to those of Our Forces, and when you next meet one complain to them about how badly you are treated. I would like to know if you don't end up on your arse.
As regards to the Army you brought it up about your ol' man did his bit, just pointing out so have I along with countless others. - Unlike you!
No doubt you'll be striking over the loss of your free flights next????
Ken31158 1 year ago
@Ken31158 Considering I`m more than twice the age of most servicemen serving with our forces; I agree that I`d proberbly get a pasting from a battle harderned soldier at the peak of his fitness. Pair me with anyone my age and weight and I would give myself at least a 90% chance of putting them on their arse. But of course your opinion is hypothetical. I wouldn`t approach a plummer, a dustman or a merchant banker to discuss the strike; so why would I want to approach a member of the forces?
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
@skcodyerrus @Ken31158 You were not trying to enlighten me of my good conditions of employment because you haven`t got a clue what I do for a living. When the brave men and women who are serving our country leave the forces, they will be looking for employment in 'Civvy Street'. Some of those in the ranks will no doubt choose to join a trade union. Are you saying that when those ex-servicemen and women are in their new jobs they should take all the shit that is thrown at them without a fight?
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
@skcodyerrus I'm nearly twice the age I was when I left at the age of 30, so I guess we're about the same age now.
6ft 1in 13 1/2 stone, am I in your 90% enchatchment zone???
However I would approach anybody into dialogue over a view I believed to be true - you however have nothing to offer except pathetic nonsense, not once have you mentioned your reasons for striking or are you all sheep - the blind following the blind .......bharr bharrrr!!
Ken31158 1 year ago
@Ken31158 A high percentage of those recently employed are either retired police officers or from the Army and Navy. The main reason for this is because they can adhere to the industry`s rules and regulations when carrying out there duties. Many of these ex-servicemen (just like me) are active trade unionists. My union, just like the miners and steelworkers before, are always the first group of workers to help another group of workers.
skcodyerrus 1 year ago 2
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@skcodyerrus I'm nearly twice the age I was when I left at the age of 30, so I guess we're about the same age now.
6ft 1in 13 1/2 stone, am I in your 90% enchatchment zone???
However I would approach anybody into dialogue over a view I believed to be true - you however have nothing to offer except pathetic nonsense, not once have you mentioned your reasons for striking or are you all sheep - the blind following the blind .......bharr bharrrr!!
Ken31158 1 year ago
@Ken31158 I work within the same industry as my father and grandfather. I started at 16 and fully expect to retire at 65. As soon as I entered the job, I joined the union just as my forefathers did. I had to wait eight years before I could do the same job that they had been so proud to do. Within the past 15 years (since privatisation) the company that I work for have actively recruited from outside the industry.
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
@Ken31158 I have already pointed out that my father has fought for his country and indeed my grandfather fought in Salonika, Flanders and Dublin between 1914-1919. They were both trade unionists who were involved in many strikes from 1926 onwards; and are still well known within my industry. I am immensly proud of my heritage and I would never speak out against another working class person. What exactly have you contributed to this debate?
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
If you work for British Airways and have been on strike this week, next time you see a Marine/Soldier/Sailor/Airman who's returned from Afghanistan make sure you tell him/her about your awful working conditions, poor uniform and low pay!! Let me know how you get on....
Ken31158 1 year ago
@Ken31158 My ol` man fought for his country and was an active trade unionist until the day he retired. He wasn`t a Colonel, Major or Lieutenant; he was a working class man in the ranks. Infact he is still a member of our union`s retired members` section and campaigns for pensioners` rights. He wasn`t the first ex-serviceman to join a trade union and he certainly won`t be the last!
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
Err "the lowest paid workers", they would be the Gatwick cabin crew then?
yachtno1 1 year ago
BA have announced that of all the flights that were due to leave from Heathrow today, 184 departed and 131 were cancelled (72%). Take into account those customers who had switched their flights to rival airlines; that figure is infact much higher. Keep up your brave and dignified fight cabin crew. Attacking the standard of living of the lowest paid workers is not the answer to the ineptitude of BA management.
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
@skcodyerrus Brave Dignified???? Lowest paid????? wake up Gene Hunt Its 2010
MrConcession 1 year ago
@MrConcession What the fuck`s Gene Hunt? Whats 2010 got to do with anything?
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
What offers have UNITE rejected from BA without consultation of the membership, on behalf of the cabin crew community.
1. An Extra FREE Staff travel Ticket
2. Shares
3. Bonus Payment
4. Monthy Travel Payment at 2008/2009 rates
5. Three Year Pay deal
5. Rights for Unite to negotigate on route transfers to NF
Bassalies 1 year ago
@Bassalies Please would you elaborate on the details of the three year paydeal? Was the RPI figure teken into account? What did you the management want in return for this? A three year deal would never have been acceptable given the current uncertainties of the world economy. How much was the proposed bonus payment? Please give details of this extra staff ticket. Not much use when you can travel to Spain with a rival airline for a pony!
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
What has been achieved through the strike?
1. Widespread public condemnation
2. Cabin crew bringing shame on our community with WW faces etc.
3. Loss of revenue
4. BA still not negotiating
5. Strikers losing pay and staff travel
6. A now divided workforce - strikers and non-strikers
7. Unite still no further forward than they were a week/month/year ago.
Bassalies 1 year ago
@Bassalies So do you work for that management consulting firm who is fuelling this whole dispute? You know the one; that big firm of yanks round the back of the Criterian. It is either that or you`re BA management, coming on here to spread your vile propaganda and lies. Perhaps you`re the company lackey? Maybe you`re just a Scab?
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
skcodyerrus:
BA hasn't asked Cabin Crew to take a pay cut.
diplomeuk 1 year ago
Walsh is seeking an agreement to cut 2,000 cabin crew and introduce a payfreeze. Considering the extra work that will have to be undertaken by the remaining crew and the fact that RPI is now at over 3% and rising, I call that a paycut. The standard of living of BA cabin crew and their families are under attack from Walsh. All this after he has accepted a 6% pay rise and seen vast amounts of money deposited into his pension fund. Why do you support Walsh and jealously attack the cabin crew?
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
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skcodyerrus:
This statement is incorrect:
"...has had the nerve to ask the cabin crew to accept a pay cut. "
BA hasn't asked Cabin Crew to take a pay cut. They have asked for the same staffing that is now in place, with Unite/BASSA's agreement, at Gatwick.
The problem is that BASSA reacted with such hysteria, representing the interests of the Union rather than Cabin Crew, to striking Cabin Crew's detriment.
diplomeuk 1 year ago
@diplomeuk The members of Unite are the union!
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
Walsh has refused to accept his bonus for the past three years. However, £90,000was paid into his pension fund last year and similar amounts were deposited the previous two. When BA announced record losses of £401 million pounds in May of last year, Walsh offered to work for free in July. He has since accepted a 6% pay rise taking his salary to £735,000. I cannot start to comprehend how the greedy little bastard has had the nerve to ask the cabin crew to accept a pay cut.
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
Competition gluts our markets and it is this that is driving down the wages of the BA cabin crew. Why should they have to tamely submit to an attack on their standard of living and their terms and conditions; simply because of the rotton system that rewards only the likes of Walsh. In order for BA to compete with the cheaper budget airlines it needs to cut costs. It is the cabin crew who has been made to pick up the bill.
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
So before anybody else on here comes out with that old chestnut: 'I`ll take my business elsewhere', or decides to fly to Malaga, Prague or Dublin for 25 quid, just remember that it is you who is condoning the very system that will eventually finish off British Airways we know it. Stop making villians out of the victims. If you want to jealously attack anybody, then attack Walsh!
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
all i can say is selfish!
HollisAshton 1 year ago
If you go to the BA channel on Youtube they are censoring the comments that people make. Unsurprisingly, they are all bursting in positivity.
felixandsnoopy 1 year ago
I've been an Engineer with BA for more than 20 years. In that time my job has changed quite a bit and we now work more efficiently than we did. Unite's members haven't really gone with the flow and adapted to the modern realities. Hence they are now in thr firing line, and the rest of us who have broadly modernised are not.!
yachtno1 1 year ago
Do these staff not know we are in a recession and they are making their company loss millions, just hope they dont cause british airways to be the next airline to go into administartion because it would be the staffs own doing
n80dek 1 year ago
you have my support! stand strong!!!!!
danishflyboy 1 year ago
There is no sympathy for the cabin crew! As a frequent flyer with BA I am appalled with Unite and the decision to strike. The cabin crews' job and responsibility is to serve the customers who pay their wages. I'm not paying for my flight because I want the cabin crew to have a comfortable lifestyle, I just want good service and to get from A to B as comfortably as possible. If this continues much longer I'll take my business elsewhere and I'm sure others will too!
Shape-up and get real!
rtardkoolie 1 year ago
@rtardkoolie them on strike should really grow up, I dont think you should take your business somewhere else, if its not over soon although that does seem like a good option, but it isnt going to solve anything other than BA struggling even more, Im sure BA are doing everything they can, and as for the striking staff, their jobs should be in jeopardy after this.
MickyHollywood 1 year ago
This is a pathetic video, your Union clearly just wants a fight with BA for the sake of fighting .
For Gods sake don't you realise by now that your cabin waiters not some critical component of the engine .Yes OK you've done an evacuation training course or two but for gods sake get real.
BA - I hope you wipe the floor with these idiots .
wp12341 1 year ago
I work for one of the BA competitors and my working conditions are pretty poor; and the company treats us contemptuously. I certainly understand that working class people need a strong union behind them or ruthless twenty-first century business practice will see us all eating grass in the end. I hope the BA crew win their fight...it might just bring a glimmer of hope of a brighter future to those of us who are already downtrodden and treated like dirt.
123dic 1 year ago
Well said! You're obviously a principled and dignified person; and not a selfish individual who seeks to make villians out of the victims.
skcodyerrus 1 year ago
Good on yer Unite , and all the crew brave enough to stand up to corporate harassment
volitionlocked 1 year ago
They're so stupid they want more money but hellloooo BA don't have any money!!!!!! The company have lost millions so what do they want them to do??
rudegirl992003 1 year ago
So true!!!
rudegirl992003 1 year ago
would you like a glass of wine, oh i wont be a moment, i will just sort this seating problem, oh wait should i get him his wine first, and then sort out the seating problem, also that guy that brings home £1100 to £1400 pound omg i would love to get that, okay if we hadn't just had a credit crunch that left a lot of company's shutting down, then i might be just a little sympathetic with the cabin crew. but its due to the credit crunch why i'm still looking for job, sheesh
MickyHollywood 1 year ago
@MickyHollywood - Good point, get the wine first. That particular crew member is obviously a bad worker and should be fired, not promoted in a union promotion video!
rtardkoolie 1 year ago
All the best BA staff you have my 100% support.
Keep on keeping on!
JawJawWell 1 year ago
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What a ridiculous comment.
If other workers, in your manipulative little example nurses and paramedicsare, are not being paid an acceptable amount than I suggest you join a campaign to organise against low pay instead of making silly comparisons with BA staff.
However the strike is not about pay, as you well know, it's about a number of issues including the imposition of terms and conditions over a negotiated settlement, staffing levels and job satisfaction. Unbelievable.
JawJawWell 1 year ago
the arguments put forward in this video are pathetic...who do they think they are? if you don't like it, do something else!
bowlinshane 1 year ago
This is utter nonsense! The Cabin Crew at BA are a spoilt bunch of whingers...massivley overpaid for what they do compared to other airlines and people in similar customer service roles. They often justify this by suggesting they are the best in the industry - but as a frequent flyer I know that's simply not true -many of the older BA crew are some of the most arrogant and unwelcoming in the sky! Wake up and smell the coffee UNITE and your members - you don't know how lucky you are!
TheSAH1973 1 year ago 2
@TheSAH1973 Translated what you're saying is as long as I'm ok and my trips are not disrupted i couldn't really give a shit about the the BA workers. Top salary of £30k, £20k after ten years, all while Little Willie Walsh gets £750k and pockets huge bonuses. If the Cabin Crew you deal with are unfriendly its probably a reflection of the company rather than the workers.
MrHistoryman45 1 year ago
@MrHistoryman45
Willie Walsh is a CEO of one of the UK's biggest companies, so you can hardly compare what his basic earnings should be versus a member of cabin crew. Be realistic. There are senior cabin crew at BA earning £50 - 60k salaries once allowances are taken into consideration. I do appreciate the contracts for new joiners aren't as lucrative but it’s a reasonable salary for the type of work and at the end of the day, if it isn't enough, choose another career.
TheSAH1973 1 year ago 2
@TheSAH1973 I think its very realistic to note Walsh gets increased share options worth more than most employees earn in ten years despite the fact he is presiding over ever increased losses. It is amusing to see how people like you justify their telephone number earnings on the basis of their 'success', yet when they fail they get multi million pound pay outs. Win, win for the management, loose, loose for the workers.
MrHistoryman45 1 year ago
@MrHistoryman45
Win-win for the management? Tell that to the 1,000s of BA managers who have lost their jobs over the past 5 yrs - I didn't see the Cabin Crew coming out in their support? In a bid for survival, everyone at BA is having to make sacrifices, it is nonsense to suggest otherwise. But the crew, rather than do their bit seem bent on destroying the company. It's disgraceful.
TheSAH1973 1 year ago
@TheSAH1973 You ignore the important difference between middle and lower management and Walsh and the other fat cats sat at the top. None of Walsh's cronies have lost their jobs and they still award themselves increasing bonuses - while the cabin crew offered a pay cut! Not much sacrifice from the boys in the boardroom as usual.
MrHistoryman45 1 year ago
@MrHistoryman45 Is that accurate? Are crew really being asked to take a pay cut? I don't think so. New joiners are to be offered more flexible contracts and CSDs are being asked to participate in service routines on LH flights.. existing crew aren't being asked to take pay cuts unlike other work groups within the company!
TheSAH1973 1 year ago
@TheSAH1973 The cabin crew offered a pay cut as part of a deal to resolve the situation. By all accounts BA is keen the main problem now is the refusal to restore travel concessions taken away during the strike. I appreciate that with your view of unions you will probably think its reasonable but no union will ever settle on those terms, Walsh knows it and is using it to prolong the strike to try and break the union.
MrHistoryman45 1 year ago
@TheSAH1973
Utter nonsense you say?
Hmmm..... 'frequent flyer'?..... I don't think so....
Interesting that many of our GENUINE Frequent Flyers are actually our most ardent supporters....
Worldwideflyer 1 year ago
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TheSAH1973 1 year ago
@Worldwideflyer
You are in no position to question my frequent flyer status...and I'm afraid you are also sadly mistaken. I work for a large multinational company and, like me, many of my colleagues fly frequently. Unlike me, many of them prefer BA (I choose other carriers where I can as I know I get better service). However, they too share my disbelief at this strike. Stop kidding yourself...the public are not behind you on this!
TheSAH1973 1 year ago
Grow up cabin crew. You are already monumentally overpaid, 25-30k to push that trolley up and down? you have no support among the people Im afraid, you arent poor, you arent treated badly. seriously, if you dont like it, just leave? See how much you get paid and how many nice little perks you get doing a similar job on the ground. I love you guys btw, I fly BA everytime regardless of cost (which isnt that much more than budget) but this is going to wreck BA and destroy any respect you had.
gnark1ll1us 1 year ago 3
It feels that BA Crew is the same as here in the US. United Airlines and it's management as it seems are treating the employees the same way here... The employees are working as hard as they can but they feel the short end of their budget as well...
MarcusLeepapi 1 year ago
sad that Unite and Bassa cant even agree amongst themselves,what ajoke ,democracy,hhaaaa
quorny2 2 years ago
such a shame that Bassa and Unite cant even agree amongst themselves.would be funny if it wasnt so serious
quorny2 2 years ago
ChrisEdwards:
BA didn't ask Cabin Crew to take a paycut...though it seems that Unite has just offered up a paycut for Cabin Crew as part of their negotiations.
Let's hope that BA keeps the imposition, refuses the pay cut offer, and BASSA and its members either become part of a reality based world or strike.
This constant complaining by cabin crew and constant threats of striking while never actually walking the walk is getting a tad tiring.
diplomeuk 2 years ago 3
Professionally trained and PAID aircrew can mean the difference between life and death in an emergency. Recall the passenger aircraft that landed in the Hudson river in New York not so long ago? It was the skill and bravery of the pilot and aircrew that meant that everyone got out safely. Aircrew live with that responsibility every day. Ask the passengers of that flight how much aircrew deserve to be paid and I think you will find that they have a rather higher opinion than some here.
ChrisEdwards2004 2 years ago
its not actually the Aircrew that are striking its the cabin crew and i think you will find that none of them were flying that Airbus!!!
All the volunteers are properly trained iaw CAA requirements that includes first aid etc..etc..
This strike will do nothing but damage BA and bring resentment towards the Cabin Crew not to mention that they will have there Staff Travel privilages withdrawn for good.
It will be interesting who actually will go out the door come the 20th March
quorny1 1 year ago
Like Spannerz20 I have cancelled my Unite membership too. I've said yes to the Single agreement and no pay rises for 2 years in my area of BA. I've worked for 20 years now at BA and can never say i've been unfairly treated, in fact i'm Damn lucky to have such a good job and I appreciate it 100%. I cannot any more put money into an organisation that are threatening my Job, Livelihood and future. I'm very angry with Unite.
Raiderdream 2 years ago
Ok then, Walsh is paid the market rate so what? What has M&S workers pay got to do with this and are you sure of that? Union offer of pay cuts not enough and they wanted it paid back after 2 years, not a pay cut at all.
Jarvy159 2 years ago
Leave the bread and butter earners alone, is this a race to the bottom of the pay scale? Walsh get paid MORE than the US president! BA is top heavy with managers. Pay less at the top & Stop cutting product. When they merge, Iberia crew are paid more than BA crew. CREW are great. M&S staff are paid more than Primark staff: thats expected. Crew offered over 50 million in savings last March.This is about BA trying to change their contracts forever, NOT cost savings because BA refused their offer.
popeye11 2 years ago
And that's exactly why I cancelled my unite union subscription in December. Why would I want to continue funding such a shambolic detached from reality bunch of militant cretins ! Unite was born out of several mergers in a bid to increase the cash in the pockets and political leverage for those at the top. Unfortunately these mergers have created such a diverse union membership across departments within BA that actions to "support" one group are directly in contradiction to the will of others.
spannerz20 2 years ago
chris lennon wrote:
well done BA. Who the hell do these union members and cabin crew people think you are, you tried to ruin hard working men, women and childrens holidays, you nasty people. what goes around comes around
TomcatZG 2 years ago
What a BS. No support in UK at all!!
TomcatZG 2 years ago
This Union is hell-bent on destroying the best airline in the world. I fly BA twice a year and I think the crew do a fab job and very polite and proud to be British.
leahrockstar 2 years ago
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fo2stripes 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What a load of tripe !
PJCwe44 2 years ago
I take home ALOT less than £1100-£1400 per month but have been told I am not entitled to the same tax credit mentioned here. Please explain. Unite seem to me to be an unnecessarily agressive union. I used to work for a heilcopter manufacturer in the South West when I left college and remember being quite intimidated by the hardline unionists and if I ever expressed an opinion that went against the union line it was dismissed out of hand and I was publicly mocked. So we generally stayed quiet.
portaccio 2 years ago
hmmm... take home of £1400 means £25k+ annual salary
markinberks 2 years ago
thats not including the perks.
Cheap flights/accommodation, living expenses and bonuses.
The cabin crew in particular at BA are massively overpaid, they are good, and I love them, but what does their job really entail day to day? Are they really worth twice the wage a nurse gets for instance?
gnark1ll1us 1 year ago 3
Oh dear, more lies by Unite and BASSA. They really should stop this lying. The only people who don't seem to realise they are lies are those poor cabin crew who seem to be incapable of thinking for themselves. If there was any validity in their lies (which are easily proven to be lies), why are so many BA staff going to break the strike. Every one should also be aware of the BASSA bullying, harassment and threats.
daveallen007 2 years ago 3
Sadly, this video's perpetration of half truths and illogical assumption is so great that it has confirmed in my own mind that the actions of the Unions in this matter are wholly unjustified. The use of the word "Truth" should be jealously guarded and it should not used to try to give weight to a political stance. As an outside observer I am shocked at the lack of rationale that has been displayed by BA's Cabin Crew. They appear to have no support inside BA and none amongst my work circles.
MrTubeytubby 2 years ago 3
There are 3 basic types of cabin crew at BA. The people on the old contract get paid above the industry standard. The people on the new contract are on around the industry standard. The crew at Gatwick are below the industry standard.
yachtno1 2 years ago 8
Hmm, I don't understand how the union believes throwing this tantrum and walking off the job will get their way.
It will make things worse, and BA will probably 'bleed to death'. Are the pilots agreeing with the CC's plight?
I am more interested in knowing what the Unite leaders, and perhaps the cabin crew themselves would do if they were in the position Willie Walsh is in - if you were loosing ridiculous amounts of money, wouldn't you try to save costs?
GBNLE 2 years ago
All cabin crew I know have University degrees ,your partner may do too therefore its not a matter of learning ability as insinuated its about two different jobs two sets of people do,and respect pilots constantly express opinions so its time we did too.
A very close family member of mine is a BA pilot thankfully of a different view than expressed by some here.
Open Skies dispute was not to benefit cabin crew.Go to CAA web site and check BA PILOTS and Cabin crew + other BA depts cost per head.
bsaintly1 2 years ago
@bsaintly1 I was trying to point out that on average, I earn market rate for my education and training (+10% market rate uk), whereas the old contract csds dont come close.
Openskies has affected you - there is cabin crew in BA uniform doing your job now on different contracts.
Re pay comparison: of course we earn a lot more than you or an avergage office worker, as is the case in every other airline.
I do not agree with the hostile attitudes displayed here either (both sides)
1shaunuk 2 years ago
@1shaunuk
I have managed to stay above this bickering but have eventually given in because of our pilots attitude towards our industrial situation.I have many personal pilot friends & enjoy their company and most recognise me but some have shown a resentment beyond their call.I marched with them i supported their view,& don't really resent their earning coz i chose my job/degree.I hv personally been attacked with comments.like yrs my T&C's are important to me.
bsaintly1 2 years ago
I am hoping that your personal attacks on the flight crew community are purely because you are misinformed by your union or colleagues. Please do your research before posting. Regards, Pilot. (Earning half the basic salary of some Heathrow CSD's, having invested £80,000 and years in training and a university degree)
PS. I think both management and BASSA mishandled these negotiations and have respect for all my cabin crew colleagues. (I'm married to one as well!)
1shaunuk 2 years ago
@1shaunuk
I didn't mean yr personal comments to me but frm others.
i know BASSA are protecting my T&C'd just as BALPA was yours. I hv kept a close eye on negotiations and am well placed to know what BA have been playing at and what their CONSULTANCY hv been playing at. You only need to read a few business books to see through this game .BASSA reps are crew and its their jobs as well at stake.
Pilots may hv resentments but divide & rule will also affect BALPA a 2 yr no strike deal for you .
bsaintly1 2 years ago
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1shaunuk 2 years ago
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1shaunuk 2 years ago
Let me clear up some of the "misunderstandings" that crew are circulating about flight crew.
1) We earn the same as Virgin pilots per hour worked (Virgin fly fewer hours per year)
2) We will not get any shares, unless the company makes massive profits, which is very unlikely
3) Openskies was as much our battle as the cabin crews - except BASSA apparently didn't care about cabin crew being outsourced while BALPA was of the opinion that it WAS important.
4) Pensions : problems same for cabin crew.
1shaunuk 2 years ago
bullywalsh you seem typical of the Bassa leadership in that you will not listen to anyone else but you wonderful union leaders. Anyone who has a different view is wrong, a liar ,management or all the above. This is not about what if its about flying one down and the CSD having to work a bit harder. The rest of BA, the city and the public see this as a battle that cannot be won by Bassa. So go back to your union website where the world has only one view and no body can question it.
Jarvy159 2 years ago
Ruthlessinterloper,BASSA may be "the drunken family member that needs to be ostracised" as you put it ,however in my opinion some BALPA members need to be put into rehab to wean them back from their serious drug addiction of self importance ,superiority ,and invincibility .and to bring them back to reality that is BA under willie walsh.
With your HUGE WAGE PACKAGE no one in the company will be supporting you,and the rest of BA should know what you earn,and compare that with other UK PILOTS.
bsaintly1 2 years ago
Yes ruthlessinterloper,its BA PILOTS HYPOCRACY thats in question.
BA pilots are giving up nothing really because they get it back in shares. To save our BA put your money where your mouth you need to take a serious wage cut in line with the other UK PILOTS ,and don't forget the far too generous PENSION SCHEME.
bsaintly1 2 years ago
BA PILOTS ; IS IT TRUE THAT BRITISH AIRWAYS WAS CREATED FOR THE SOLE BENEFIT OF PILOTS !
Thats what it looks like when you seek strike action when your terms and conditions are affected and in the most recent case of BA's OPEN SKIES (launched in paris and amsterdam) which had nothing to do with your T&C's ,but criticise other groups when their legitimate T&C's are affected .
you are hypocrites in my opinion,and need to take a better look at your militant actions. YOU ARE NEXT IN WILLIES LIST.
bsaintly1 2 years ago
Things have clearly got out of hand on both sides and a government body should intervene to resolve this because clearly BA and Unite can't. Both sides are at war and it's turning into a mess which can never be reversed.
sijjx 2 years ago
exactly bsaintly if the noonys keep posting their vacuous shallow threats just keep posting the above message from BALPA my what a short memory they have, but we can still remind them can't we.
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
'We shall be pressing for a review of this law which has prevented British trade union members from protecting their careers. We shall be calling on MPs, MEPs and the International Labour Organisation to work with us to secure a better balance in this increasingly important international area of business. The right to strike has to be declared the overriding right, and BALPA wants others to join us to restore balance and fairness in industrial relations.
ABOVE WAS BA PILOTS UNION'S COMMENT .
bsaintly1 2 years ago
Jim McAuslan, General Secretary of BALPA said:
We shall be pressing for a review of this law which has prevented British trade union members from protecting their careers. We
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
shall be calling on MPs, MEPs and the International Labour Organisation to work with us to secure a better balance in this increasingly important international area of business. The right to strike has to be declared the overriding right, and BALPA wants others to join us to restore balance and fairness in industrial relations.
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
2 years ago this appeared on the BALPA website - in the light of recent events perhaps it would be a good time for Jim McAuslan to restate his comittment to the right to take industrial action?
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
BA PILOTS RECOGNISE THIS EXTRACT,
'We shall be pressing for a review of this law which has prevented British trade union members from protecting their careers. We shall be calling on MPs, MEPs and the International Labour Organisation to work with us to secure a better balance in this increasingly important international area of business. The right to strike has to be declared the overriding right, and BALPA wants others to join us to restore balance and fairness in industrial relations.
bsaintly1 2 years ago
Perhaps when BA comes after the terms and conditions of the flight crew, you won't be so keen to 'back BA', oh and that includes your pensions too!
BTW, good luck to all you scabs out there, you are gonna need it! :)
44jaffa 2 years ago
They're running scared over on Crew Forum over the posts on here. They're "getting upset"
VOTE NO AND BACK BA
markusx22 2 years ago
Sorry but nimrod379 who sounds like a pilot to me, said "if you don't like it, fuck off". How should I take that?
jonahdea 2 years ago
By fucking off if you don't like it?
I'm not a pilot, I'm a consumer who is laughing my arse off at the mess you and your union got yourselves into. BA have enough problems and are quite capable of going down the pan with or without your help, but it's nice of you to help them along.
When you're all out of a job, where will you be then? Enjoy your time in the dole queue like millions of others, and get used to living on a lot less than you currently are.
nimrod379 2 years ago
When I joined BA, LGW crew were on similar wages to LHR. I was offered the contract that I'm on now. Why would I have questioned what others were earning? BA offered me that contract and now they would like to take it away. How is that right? LGW crew have it very tough. And now BA want to take away their right to transfer to LHR. BA will eat away at everything and pilots will be next!!!
jonahdea 2 years ago
and unfortunately this time, enough is enough. During the worst trading conditions this airline has ever faced you are threatening to strike? I'm sorry, people will not let UNTIE ruin this airline over a power show. P.S. don't go down the "you are all bus drivers" route, it's immature and lets be honest, if we turn that mentality around on you, it doesn't exactly put you in favourable light.........
BASaviour1 2 years ago
BAsaviour you already have, why not go back a few post when your vitriol against crew was lets say 'immature' remember how you said your training up to do our job and other negative comments ? ? disgraceful comments you posted. immature ! well take a long hard look in the mirror.
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
Johndea, a minority of flightcrew have issues with cabin crew just as a minority of cabin crew have issues with flight crew. What does not help your case is stating "you are all arrogant" etc....the extremist attitude helps no one and is not welcome. No pilot I know has a vendetta against the entire cabin crew community, but every pilot I know has a strong one against the leadership of your union. It cannot go on like this with threats of strike over the school holidays/xmas every other year
BASaviour1 2 years ago 2
during the Openskies dispute, BALPA made several phone calls to Sean Beatty to brief him but never made an approach for assistance. It is incorrect to say BALPA asked for support or indeed that any was given by BASSA either overtly or otherwise. What BASSA and many cabin crew seem to forget is that OS was not the Pilot's problem. Outsourcing of flight and cabin crew via subsidiary airlines was - and remains - a threat to all of our T&Cs (new fleet)
BASaviour1 2 years ago
is that so BAsaviour well here you go heres the message from your union posted during opensikies dispute enjoy !
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
Would you support the LGW BA crew if they fought to have the same wages as the LHR crew and in order to do that the LHR salary would be cut? Would you take a pay cut for them? Didn't think so.
sijjx 2 years ago 2
When you wanted to strike about the worrying effect of OpenSkies on your terms and conditions, we were with you all the way. We supported you. Why do you have to be so have to be so insulting about crew? We should have respect for each other? Isn't that the only way forward?
jonahdea 2 years ago
And sending immature abuse to pilots ain't gonna win you public support. Just showing your true colours.
sijjx 2 years ago 2
Heaven forbid ever having to sort out a seating problem! Would increasing their crew mean they'd have a dedicated seating problem crewmember? It's not a perfect world and everyone has to deal with things that go wrong, in any job!
sijjx 2 years ago
You pilots are pathetic. Dont come looking to us for support next time you are in this situation. Cos it wont be long. You are all arrogant. Who do you think you are? You're just bus drivers!!
jonahdea 2 years ago
Nimrod379 get a grip, that topic of others wanting jobs has been covered see earlier comments, just like they're after yours too. Ooooh lots of resentment here been dump by a hostie have you ?
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
and that 13 million is on condition we dont go on strike. Oh dear.
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
I wonder when UNITE/BASSA "produced" this appauling production to say, "I am BA cabin crew , WOE IS ME!" - whether they imagined for just one second that they would be getting MORE or LESS bad reaction from the public? Neutrinoghost, don't believe those figures for a second either, they are the figures for the GATWICK cabin crew who earn HALF what their counterparts at Heathrow do. Conveniently wheeled out when needed.
BASaviour1 2 years ago
Can't wait for the Tories to come in and break the unions that are full of people as ungrateful as the BA cabin crew staff who wanted strike action.
nimrod379 2 years ago 3
Well done nimrod379 - break the unions then working class individuals will never have a chance to stand up to corporate bullys who want the chance to pay there workers less and less only to reward themselves more and more.
loulou86ful 2 years ago
Frankly if you don't like it, then fuck right off. There are millions in the the UK who have no job in this recession and would jump at the chance to fill your positions, so be grateful you fucking mugs.
nimrod379 2 years ago 4
OMG, that dude is complaining that he can't live on £1,100-£1,400 per month, that's exaclty what 'im on as a delivery driver and I've got plenty of spare cash!
Neutrinoghost 2 years ago 5
I can post the CAA link again should you doubt these figures......
BASaviour1 2 years ago
Cabin crew salaries (CAA Figures) BMI 18K, Easyjet 20K, Monarch 17K, Thomas Cook 17K, Thomson 14K, Virgin 14K...........BA 29.9K! I don't want to bring up salaries but you constantly want to try and say how unfair it is that the Pilot's earn this much blah blah.........but when it comes down to gin clear comparisons, your arguments, as ever, fall flat. This dispute is not about salary, you're keeping ALL of yours under the BA deal. It's about 1 off an aircraft and the fact you had it imposed.
BASaviour1 2 years ago
SPOT ON mate.
nimrod379 2 years ago
You could use the medical profession as an analogy. Doctors work alongside Nurses on the same wards and in the same theatres. Some nurses have servrd a long time, are very experienced and have very high qualification, beyond that needed for the job. All Dr's have a lengthy qualification process. Dr's earm more than Nurses. Does anyone consider that inappropriate?
MrTubeytubby 2 years ago
thats because dr's have a lot more responsibility than nurses its their ass if something goes wrong
rupertbright 1 year ago
your arguments are invalid bully, if you'd have cared to actually read the last few pages instead of covering your ears and shouting lalalalalala, you might actually learn something. Average 2008 Pilot salaries (CAA FIGURES): Monarch 80K, Thomas Cook 98K, Easyjet 70K, Virgin 89K, Thomson 78K, BMI 77K. You may not like it, but we're earning market rate + 10%. you're not.
BASaviour1 2 years ago
oh so its OK for you to earn that amount when the average pay is 28k massive difference
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
13 million in shares divided between how many WOW thats a lot of money
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
with 2 million on the dole dont you think they want your job too lol lol idiot
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
bullywalsh, same old BASSA lies! Got out of NAPS a long time ago, took the CETV so nothing to lose actually!
if any genuine customers are reading, perhaps they'll have a few things to say over your 12 days of christmas stunt though! looks like a sift back through this thread or indeed ANY of the national press will soon open your blinkered eyes as to whose side the public is on. CLUE: it isn't yours.........
BASaviour1 2 years ago
If any genuine customers are reading these comments isnt it sad that the person with most comments is flight crew no one else ? obviously terrified he will lose his pot of a 13 million payout in shares ?????
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
you suck, your all v. lucky to have jobs. I'm sure those 2million + on the dole would like to have yours while your prating around striking.
tvandbeermakehomergo 2 years ago
As a passenger (I fly for business) and shareholder I would like to put across what I see from my perspective, if I may. There are very few reasons why I and some of my colleagues still fly with BA and its obviously not because of the brand new aircraft, faultless entertainment system or innovative industry standard flat bed! I think it is because once on board I already feel I'm home. I don't want home to feel like Crawley town centre. I will not pay Michelin star money for McDonalds service!
BAPassenger 2 years ago
"BA crew have offered more than any department"..........perhaps that's because your department is 14000 people + managers. Surely it stands to reason that if your department is bigger, you naturally contribute higher savings? IFCE is almost 5 times bigger than Flight ops.
(Flight ops savings were £26m)
BASaviour1 2 years ago 2
again u are clueluess
back to the correct info
bonkle23 2 years ago
Comment removed
bonkle23 2 years ago
what do you think about that proposal (i.e. capping First etc) ?
BASaviour1 2 years ago
747 flyerplanes, thank you for joining the debate. What you say is true but unfortunately those savings only equated to £52m. Also, those cuts (i.e. 2.6% paycut) were temporary, not permanent. Unpaid leave & part-time were aspirationally achieved. The list for part time was out the door! BASSA's latest proposal involves increasing crewing levels onboard to pre-imposition levels, giving BA until April to do this, they have suggested capping First class (!) and closing zones on board the aircraft
BASaviour1 2 years ago
BA already have that. There are many 3 & 4 man trips. The extra crew are required legally due to flight time limitations from the CAA
BASaviour1 2 years ago
They take a seat on the flight deck when F/O or CPT are on rest, thus reducing the necessity for long range sector trips
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
I haven't heard of relief pilots. Please enlighten me....
BASaviour1 2 years ago
Yes and 90% of flight crew are wonderful just the odd weird bunch who try and dictate how other colleagues should act.
have you heard off relief pilots ? Many airlines are using them. Cathay Pacific, Air Canada, Continental Airlines, Egypt Air, Scandinavian Airlines. think they maybe on there way here very soon its a very good idea in my opinion.
BullyWalsh 2 years ago
call me what you like, but some people in this airline are not willing to let the likes of the people who put out that level of comms/hate mail to bring the company down. I am one of them. There are many more looking out for their OWN interest. Many thousand people have their mortgages and much much more riding on this and will be looking out for themselves- not those of BA cabin crew. fact
BASaviour1 2 years ago
as I am sure YOU have all the figures from where?? BASSA?!!?! Actually the crew were very good, led by a good CSD(as most of them are) and many were concerned enough this time to actually come & chat to us on the flight deck about what to do. I have no problem with CC, but I do have a big problem with UNTIE/BASSA feeding them vitriolic, playground comms. The latest from Lizanne told Pilots to FOXTROT OSCAR. Could she leave herself more open..........
BASaviour1 2 years ago
I thought you weren't in dispute about new fleet?! It's just imposition isn't it?
BASaviour1 2 years ago
we are not I am just pointing out how this WILL effect you, think about it long term. the developments will be quite interesting
BullyWalsh 2 years ago