Why does a footnote in the NAB say that 1 Cor 3:15 does not support purgatory?

[TheJazuma]

what about the Jerusalem Bible?

[SeptemberCatholic18]

@TheJazuma That translation has been updated; there is now the New Jerusalem Bible. I hear it's supposed to be good, but I'm not sure.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

@torvasal1 That had nothing to do with this video.

[teologen]

"However, I found one more thing I didn't like in the NAB. In Luke 1:28, the angel declared "Hail, favored one" when it should read "Hail, one who has been filled with grace." The Greek demands the latter translation." The lexical meaning of charis is favour.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Strong's Concordance says that the number one usage of that word is "to make graceful."

Since it is in the past perfect tense, it then becomes "have been completely made graceful." That could indeed be rendered as "full of grace."

[teologen]

It probably means 'full of grace' in this context. But that is a theological 'demand.' (The Bible is, after all, a Christian text.) But you cannot say that the *greek* demands this. The lexical meaning of charis is favour, not 'grace.' (The latter is a hebrew notion, which indeed is at work here. But to a greek reader it wouldn't be that obvious.) And Strong's Cocordance isn't the best. Try Bauer/Danker.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Actually, my personal Rienecker/Rogers linguistic key specifically mentions grace at the primary understanding, and even includes "pass. perf." to indicate it is the past-perfect tense.

I don't think you are justified in your position, since the Greek word for grace is actually "chari." That's where we get our English words charisma and charismatic from. The understanding is very clear to me. "Highly favored" seems to be a bad rendition.

[teologen]

I agree that 'highly favoured' is a bad rendition. But that's because this is a biblical, Christian text. (Words must be interpret within their proper context.) But it's still wrong to assume that the *greek* demands it. It doesn't. The word chari is much older than Christianity, and it's root meaning is favour, not grace. That doesn't mean that we should translate the word 'favour' in the Bible, but that's another issue.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Oh, fine, have it your way. But isn't that a bit picky? The only issue here is what Luke meant, and clearly we seem to agree on what he meant.

I suppose a more accurate statement is that the biblical Greek demands that it be rendered "full of grace." By this I mean the Greek word in the context of the Christian mindset.

[teologen]

You don't have to get mad. You said that the *greek* demands it. But it doesn't. And a 'secular' greek wouldn't read this to mean 'grace.'

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Mad? I think you misread me. I am agreeing with you. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume what you are saying is correct.

I just wanted to qualify my statement after the fact in order to conform to what you told me.

Nevertheless, we seem to agree that Luke meant to use the word as we use the word "grace." Never mind what the secular Greeks thought. We are Christians here.

[BigBearPaul]

Also, I have heard several Catholic Scripture scholars state that English is one of the worst languages to translate the original texts of scripture in to.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Well, Greek is very different from English in terms of grammar construction and gender endings. In any case, I want to learn Greek :)

[5355vbxjbj76rvn]

## Perhaps because 1 Cor. 3.15 has nothing to do with Purgatory :) ?

None of the verses quoted in support of it have anything to do with it - whether there is a Purgatory, is an entirely separate question from whether it has any Biblical basis.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Are you kidding me? Purgatory is the process by which the spirit of a just man is made perfect.

In 1 Cor 3:10-15, you have two individuals who are saved. One of them has durable works which survive the fires. The other has perishable works which burn away. However, the man is saved, but only as through fire.

In other words, Christ perfected this man by burning away his bad works.

Hebrews 12:23: "...and to the spirits of just men made perfect."

These are all very explicit; undeniable.

[1rams123]

haha i hope you don't mind.. But I've posted a link to this video from the info section of my video that I did that touched on this a few months before you did this one. Its called "Heretical Book Burning".

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Hmm, I suppose I don't mind since I wouldn't disagree with burning an NAB. To be honest, I took a pen and marked that footnote out in mine. I'm still saving up for a new and good-quality Bible, so until then I must settle for my NAB.

Your video was funny and in a way sad. You guys are making jokes about what thousands of Catholics contain in their Bibles and (God forbid) read.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

I'm really starting to wish I had a RSV CE now. All I have is a Jerusalem Bible, an NAB, and a KJV (for reference). I really want the RSV CE series with Scott Hahn, which includes excellent commentary by the senior apologist.

[fishe153]

Great question! I have a NAB Bible, so I'm really glad I saw this video so that I won't be lead the wrong way. Thanks a lot for posting.

[Naturalhit]

Hey the caller is YOU.

Good find there. I will check it myself too.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Yup, and I was so glad he chose to speak with me.

[vint7107]

I would hold onto the NAB when examining certain passages that are hard to translate, just so that you could compare them with other translations. I have a couple different translations I consult when I'm trying to get down to the nitty-gritty. Always a good thing to do.

I find the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible series from Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch to be rock solid. Look into getting some of them. I think they might have finished the whole of the New Testament by now.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Yes I agree completely. I would assume that's why Patrick recommended I find a place for it in my library rather than throw it out. The translation is not so terrible, just some of the editorial remarks.

I badly want to get my hands on the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible series from Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch!

[BlackCappa]

Thanks for this video. At least I know what English bible version not to look into...

What's the difference between the New Jerusalem Bible and the RSV?

[SeptemberCatholic18]

I don't have a big problem with the NAB translation itself, I just dislike what the editors have stated in the introductions and some of the footnotes. But there are certainly better Bible translations for study.

I think that besides the editorial remarks, the only difference between the NJB and RSV is the method of translation. There are literal and dynamic ways of translating Scripture; you should seek a Bible that goes for a happy medium.

Go to Catholic Answers and type "translation."

[BlackCappa]

@SeptemberCatholic18

Thanks for the info.

I just realized it was you who called!

[wintersdemise]

That's a great question! I've come across the footnotes in Corinthians in the NAB as well and wondered the same thing!

[Prophettessa]

The Bible used as the official translation in English by the Vatican is the RSV CE. The NAB is the official translation for USA (only????). Downunder, along with a number of other countries, it's the Jerusalem Bible.

I've seen the NAB on the Vatican website, but not the Jerusalem Bible. Don't know why that is.

[paxcoder]

Okaaay... didn't know about this. Glad to find out fathers interpreted it also as Purgatory. Wonder why vatican va uses it as the default Bible then.... :-(

[SeptemberCatholic18]

It would be a simple mistake. After all, the NAB is a popular English translation for Catholics. I was also disappointed to find this out.

[paxcoder]

The guy up there speaks of other things as well. As for the RSV, it is a protestant translation for the greatest part. Don't you American Catholics have a Catholic translation?

[paxcoder]

I mean other Catholic translations. There should be tons of them. I know of very few, and most of those are old.

[nate12387]

The only Catholic translations that I know of are the RSV CE(the one I use), The NAB, and the Jerusalem Bible or the New Jerusalem Bible.

When it comes the NAB, it is only used here in the US and in some other English Speaking Countries. It is my understanding that actually the current Pope uses the RSV CE.

Also, now that the US Bishops have revised the translation for the Mass, I wouldn't be surprised if they did revised the NAB as well.

[paxcoder]

But RSV is just a small adaptation of the protestant Bible. Jerusalem Bible - yeah, didn't think of that. There's also Douay-Rheims version (albeit old).

[SeptemberCatholic18]

I think he was just referring to the footnotes. The actual translation is up to what you are looking for when you read Scripture. It can be more literal or more dynamic. The NAB is more dynamic, which is fine for casual reading. Literal is better for study.

However, I found one more thing I didn't like in the NAB. In Luke 1:28, the angel declared "Hail, favored one" when it should read "Hail, one who has been filled with grace." The Greek demands the latter translation.

[Catholicdrummer]

Thanks for asking this question because I had the same one. This is particularly confusing because the Catechism references it as referring to purgatory (paragraph 1031 footnote 605). I also do not like how Luke 1:28 is translated in the NAB.

[SeptemberCatholic18]

Amen, brother.