Christopher Hitchens vs Doug Wilson on Dennis Miller [4 of 4]

[libertarianjury]

Religion is all fraud. Dennis Miller is a weak-minded quasi-libertarian, unlike Hitchens who is a full-fledged thinker.

[sfmike20]

I hate it when at the end of a show with Hitchens the host makes some absurd statement like, I know god exists so there. What the fuck did Miller prove with his prayer comment?

[crispypanda]

no he doesn't, he says in effect 'isn't the reason a lot of people have religion because they find it a comfort when they're in danger or under stress? I know I do'. It's an observation, not an argument

[sfmike20]

@crispypanda, I was referring to the the end when he said "at the end of the day when I'm up against it, I do hit my knees". This is a cop out statement that proves nothing, and in effect boils down to; I know God exists so there. It reminded me of an interview that Hannity did with Hitchens (at least I think it was with Hitchens). When he was intellectually destroyed he said, "God exists people", and that was it. Statements like that just make me laugh.

[crispypanda]

That is the passage I was referring to also.

You are taking that statement as an argument for faith, whereas to me it sounds like a mere observation. In other words, he isn't saying 'There is definitely a God', but 'I sometimes find it helpful to act AS IF there is a God.'

You're right in saying that the statement proves nothing, but where we differ is that I don't think he was trying to PROVE anything with that statement. It was just an observation about why some people hold religious belief.

[sfmike20]

@crispypanda, fair enough.... It's just that I prefer the host of a debate of this magnitude to not end on a note like that because it is a point that cannot be refuted. I am sure Hitchens would have loved to respond to that, but he was not debating Wilson, which is why I thought Wilson was a bit churlish for making the point.

I get what you mean, but respectfully disagree.

[mrw21]

@crispypanda

Very good observation. I agree with your take, but I also agree that it was unnecessary for Miller to inject that into the end of the interview. He would have been better - instead of clearing his throat - to give Mr. Wilson 30 seconds in closing.

[TruthWatch]

No matter how eloquently Hitchens makes his case, he still leaves many intelligent people quite unconvinced.

This is partly due to the fact that he comes of as smug and condescending.

He is quite witty, but it will take more than that to be persuasive. Frankly the hosility

serves to undermine his effectiveness

[bobdefatt404b]

How can anyone convince through reason, a matter of faith. One can make all the arguments for or against the existence of a supernatural power, but when you drill down ultimately it is a matter of faith. These conversations are mental gymnastics that are never likely to change beliefs. Since we lack demonstrative facts on existence of the supernatural, reason is not a tool that can change beliefs.

[TruthWatch]

Many people are open to persuasion. which is the point of debating.

Even if the result is that people think more about their beliefs, it will be worthwhile.

[sfmike20]

@bobdefatt404b, I think that the demographic that Hitchens is trying to reach, are the skeptics. As a child, I was thoroughly convinced of god's existence due to my family's supposedly rational arguments. As I got older, I was convinced that no one could know if there is a god due the rational of people like Hitchens. It is true that people who believe, merely as a matter of faith, will be convinced of nothing.

[emuholic]

wilson doesn't make sense

[ClumsyRoot]

I agree. He completely contradicts himself.

Initially, he said that it doesn't matter whether or not Christianity is consoling; what matters is whether it's TRUE.

Then later on, he implies that the "despair" inherent in atheism is somehow a reason to reject it.

Like all apologists, he has no intellectual consistency.

[UrinationNation]

he hits his knees hahahaha, someone should break them, what a fucking idiot, I grow less and less tolerant of religion the more I hear arguments rebuffed by oh hey when I'm weak and scared I pray, seriously I feel like I'm living in some stupid nightmare, we must be in some dark age residue

[SockbatReplica]

"It's a shame there isn't a hell for the old bitch to go to" man I love Dennis' reaction to Hitchens tearing open on Mother Teresa. Fuck that is funny! Hitchens has balls!

[charlesvan13]

3:39

But he said once that he prayed for an erection.

[alphacause]

I have listened to Dennis Miller for a few years. He used to anger me a lot because he seems to stand up for the neocon corporate agenda almost unequivocally. Given how much I am opposed to him politically, I have to compliment him on being a decent moderator in this debate. He doesn't let much bias show through. He was 10 times better than Laura Ingraham who, during Hitchens and Wilson's time on her show, was flagrantly trying to trip Hitchens up.

[charlesvan13]

I don't think he has much bias in this. He might believe in god, but I don't think he's particularly religious. He doesn't like the left mainly for their paintywaist attitudes toward Islamic radicalism

[xdir]

Miller is not a NeoCon, he like most in the conservative leadership has realized that the right (especially the christian) are stupid - more importantly they are stupid & rich, Miller & co play to the sympathies of the idiots and enrich themselves.

[Ssalamanderr]

Definitely better than Ingraham.

[ClumsyRoot]

I don't often use the C-word, but Ingraham is a real Coulter.

[cfibb]

Oh totally. Ingraham was so obnoxious.

[SockbatReplica]

Ingraham half the time didn't even understand Hitchens arguements.. I mean he was explaining to her the problem with Pascal's Wager and it just went completely over her head.

[Pulsator]

classic hitch.

[rollsthepaul]

Hey Chris, don't mince your words, say what you really mean. LOL