"I would disagree with you on that, but that's a completely separate issue."
No, it isn't. I would have asked the guy about his pet apologetic and verbally sodomized it but, to be fair, he was far nicer (and more coherent) than 99.9% of the theists who ring up.
What sealed all gods fate with me was reading ancient mythology and watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos. Ancient mythology show exactly where all the stories in the bible came from. It was like duh! It's all made up. Since, I've learned a great deal more of how and why it got made up and how awesome the cosmos is w/o gods.
A theist who questioned his beliefs and sought more information... that's fantastic... the big question is why he's still a theist...
These logical/philosophical arguments are aimed at atheists, and almost all of them fail to identify a specific theistic god; they end up at some nebulous DEISTIC god and then the apologist claims THEIR holy book/scripture bridges the gap. Sorry, theists - if your scritpure didn't work for us BEFORE your logical argument, it won't work AFTER it, either.
Fellow Believer, If you could help me help GOD by doing this, it would be much appreciated. Please report a user called "DeathrasherAndrew". He is spreading the words of Satan with his music. Also report the background of his channel, it contains violent, disgusting ponography.
Tell your friends to report him as well, just me and you won't make a difference.
@MrCirclePitter But wait, wouldn't you WANT people to believe in Satan? That would also validate the existence of the Christian God. You can't believe in Satan without acknowledging that Christianity is true.
Many scientists came to the logical conclusion that the level of complexity of the universe DEMANDS A SUPER INTELLIGENT ALMIGHTY ETERNAL OMNISCIENT OMNIPRESENT CREATOR.
What is eminently ILLOGICAL is this atheistic statement : THERE IS NO GOD ANYWHERE BUT I DID NOT SEARCH every GALAXY EVERYWHERE.
IT is LOGICAL to believe that GOD wrote the BIBLE AS more ELS CODED MESSAGES are pulled from the text.
Hi, I thought the guy in red's testimony was very transparent & sincere. I can tell you where you went wrong (mindful that hell exists for nonbelievers).
You were trying to justify your faith with logic or empirical evidence. Faith is believing without logic or evidence. Trusting is without evidence. (If the bank really trusted you, they wouldn't ask for a cosigner.) So the devil talked you into thinking that you really shouldn't believe in something if it can't be proved. (no more trust in God)
whene i was 12 years old my parents died.my wonderfull christian family would not help me so i lived on the streets for a long time.i dont think cristians are the moral peaple that they want you to think they are.my christian family are extreamly rich so money was not the problem maybe it was there cristian morals the morals thay clame to be better than atheist morals!
@russianrusaln 1) Format for the debate? 2.) Side that you are taking? 3.) How much understanding of the ideas that are common or the best arguments for the other side do you have, and for your own side? If you're wanting to call in to The Atheist Experience, as it seems (id lile to call = I'd like to call?), the contact information is available in the description, and times for the show are available through the links.
Even if the universe began to exist doesn't prove that God was the cause of the universe beginning. It may of been some natural cause or may not of had a cause. It just happened. (I tend to think it was a natural cause and that was caused by a natural cause and so forth infinitum.)
Matt/Martin, the assertion that the Universe began to exist, though it is undemonstrated is not really the fatal flaw in the cosmological argument, since I think both you and I would be happy to hold a discussion on the basis of that hypothesis. The real problem lies in how they try to get from 'it began to exist' to 'therefore god'.
@CropDuster33 He sounded a bit too intelligent and thoughtful to be Venom (shaun), .. also, i think i heard the name Patrick at the end. It would be interesting to know that guys stance now (over 2 years on), as to wether he still has his same views.
Every time I watch this video it tears me up because I can actually feel the callers logical rational brain trying to almost physically tear itself away from the indoctrinated scared part of his brain. I wish I knew where the caller is now because I'm absolutely convinced he's come over to the dark side.
You were raised Christian? Same here, my mom dad are are both Independent Baptists and Reagan Conservatives. I was Homeschooled by my mom by the ACE School of Tomorrow curriculum, which didn't work when she found out I was mentally handicapped. She saw I wasn't learning my math like I should have, so he said I had something called Dyscalcula.
If I was ask, what is your proff of God. I would answer DNA. Where the information came from? Yes you can explain how the ink can bond to the paper in a New York Times, but you can't explain how the ink arranged to be words, sentence, paragraf that can be understood by the english speaker reader.
@probokator ....it's a long explanation..but YES we can explain how we formed words(of all sorts of living and dead languages)and how we understand them.
@gagnashdiak ??? All of our body chemical and biological process is the reader of DNA. All the process happends by decoding the information stored in the DNA.
@probokator No. Any molecule is just a mindless automaton what does what it unavoidably has to. There is no info coded / stored / decoded in the DNA, only that much what is "coded" in a slope.
@probokator DNA is NOT a blueprint. It doesn't work at all the way blueprints work. DNA is a natural core for biological organisms. It is - if you really want to compare it to something - a starting piece of a crystal. It is as much a "blueprint" as the mass of a planet what makes it have gravity, or the degree of a slope what "blueprints" that things will slide on it.
@gagnashdiak An organism pass its traits to the next generation via what agents? DNA I suppose. The traits of organism, for example, human. his skin, eyes, hair color, that the fenotip, see more into the organs, how the lungs works, hormon produced, see again into the cell, the shape of mitocondria, how its work, chemical reaction happend each second, etc etc. Thats really a lot. If it is stored in computer, I dont think terra bytes would be enough. Yet you said what? core? I don't understand
@gagnashdiak DNA: structures that carry genetic INFROMATION inside a living organism. use to pass hereditary traits. It holds the plan for making new, EXACT copies of each cell. (I do not makes this definition).
@probokator You don't understand technical terms. highlight should be: "genetic information", not "genetic INFORMATION".
Also the whole definition you qoute from books (I'm aware of that) made for human understanding - it is a MODEL. The definition is explained for at least an hour in secondaryschool.
As the DNA is SELFcoding (codes itself, reads itself, carry itself) AND is a mindless molecule it's NOT equivalent with computercode.
Also no reason to highlight "exact" as there is alway mistakes.
@gagnashdiak "Ribosomes are the components of cells that make proteins from all amino acids. It READ the INFORMATION from RNA and use it to create proteins. This process is known as TRANSLATION". Information? Read? Translate? those word support my original claim. You may say that they are used only for human understanding. Well, that is true, FOR HUMAN UNDERSTANDING. Because that is what human actually understand it.
@probokator Again you oly prove you don't understand the technical language. ribosomes as much "reades" RNA as the sliding object reads the slope. The RNA contains as much "information" as a slope determining what'll slide down on it. There is as much "translation" as playing origami.
And as the whle process goes as good with humans peeking their nose in it as when they do not, you fully misunderstand what those text wants to tell.
@gagnashdiak Computer program basically 1 and 0, on and off. It's the only thing machine could understand. But by coding that simple on and off, machine could do various task. Maybe ribosom only read RNA like "what slide on it", but that reading give direction to ribosom on what kind of protein be made, how much, and when. Those protein made into various enzim, organels, cells, with various function, working together, create organs, and organism. That was information.
@probokator machines understand nothing. They only work with that. Humans are the one who understand. Again you don't understand technical language.
So you say slopes are intelligent beings what're reading the objects on it? You're fuckin' nonsense.
And you mix two entirelly different meaning of information. Again you need to consult a professional, as you alone are uncapable to do your homework and understand what's the difference between computer-code and physical attributes.
WoW , That was one of the coolest thiest callers I've ever heard on this show.
This guy is proof that not all religious ppl are batshit crazy but seeking answers from a different perspective and is open to criticism without getting defensive.
I'm not saying that this sort of person would have any luck in converting me as I am a rock solid athiest. However I would say that debating him would be a pleasure.
Good show fellas. I applaud your open easy way of listening and comment. I'm an agnostic that cringes at some of the "evangelical" methods of many atheists out there today.
Well , that really depends on what side of the street you stand on I suppose.
I personally feel that we make far better progress in discussions like these than simply turning a debate into who can talk the loudest.
Even though I am an athiest I claim no certainty as to whether a god exists or not. I have just not had the experience many thiests claim to have had nor do I believe any such experience will occur. Until such a thing happens I can only be sincere in where I stand now.
@rattlehead66666 Very nice. One day you will have that experience. I just hope it isn't too late. I am a Christian and I believe Jesus will return one day and probably sooner than later. All people will know who God is in that day. Within the limits of the material world, man can never see the whole Truth until God reveals it to us.
The world is not going to stay in this terrible state of war and suffering forever. That is one reason the return of Jesus is something to look forward to.
If we are only limited to the material world than why do so many ppl claim to know things beyond it?
Not too start an argument or even call you out on spite. It just seems contradictory to me is all. I will never claim certainty about whether a god does/does not exist simply because there is no real way of knowing.
The concept of faith itself alone is just not enough for me and shouldn't be for anyone. I urge you to seek the answers urself than take someone elses word on it.
@rattlehead66666 The reason we can know some things is that God has revealed some things to us. Its revealed to all, but only with faith do people conciously believe them with their minds.There are many ways God reveals things about the spiritual world. Man has a physical body and a spirtual self. I believe our spirit can understand a lot more than our minds can see because it is part of the spiritual world.
Actually , the reason why we know so much today is because ppl have worked hard to find the answers. No offence but I think it's kinda sad that you would discredit ppl who dedicate thier entire lives researching what we know today. To assume that the things we know could not have been discovered otherwise is rather insulting. I agree that we have a physical self , spiritual however is something that we can only speculate on. To say that it's a certainty is obsurd.
@rattlehead66666 What? I am not discrediting peoples life long work to learn about what we know today. We were discussing the spiritual world cannot be proven, so how do we know any of it. I say it is revealed by God and man uses our efforts to learn about those revelations. That doesn't discredit man's work to obtain knowledge.
The thing is , though a spiritual realm(world as you put it) is not impossible. It is most likely improbable. Of course I like the idea of a life of some sort after this one but I just don't see (aside from dying) How we could ever know about it in this life.
@rattlehead66666 I am not 100%, but I think every man's spirit knows God exists, but there is a choice of wether to befriend God or to believe in our minds that He doesn't exist. I believe we can use our minds to strive to understand the Truth as much as possible, or we can close our minds to God.
When you say you are not certain God exists, you admit it is possible for a spiritual world to exist. I also urge you to seek answers beyond faith and do not worry about criticism by either side
I see it more as a choice to believe what is written in a book or believe what can be experienced through all 5 senses. Now maybe there is a god who has reached you in some way that convinced you he is real. I respect that. But I myself have never had set experience and would be dishonest to myself if I were to become a believer 2morrow. The only reason I am an athiest today is lack of proof(That I need) to believe otherwise. It's really that simple.
@rattlehead66666, Aside from faith, I see it as very highly probably that their is a spiritual world based on the proof I see with my 5 senses and the brain God gave me to think with. I believe people have too much faith in the mind of Man considering the limited information that Man bases logical arguments on. So when I see evidence that their is a God, I then concede that I do not have the entire story about all that exists.There is more to existence than what we can see with our senses
"I believe people have too much faith in the mind of Man considering the limited information that Man bases logical arguments on."
I agree with this statement but also believe that the same can be said for those who believe in the bible. As I said , if u have had an experience that has convinced you that god is real , I respect that. However , many ppl of all religions believe it because of how they were raised and what they were taught.
@buddymartin71 I support the Venus Project, which would solve the state of the world today. Jesus would have nothing to do with it, of course. If we want a sane world, we have to do it our selves.
blah blah blah. Who gives a rat's ass about god, heaven, jesus, satan or the other grimms fairy tales? do something to help others NOW, and cut this crap.
God works in mysterious ways we cannot possibly know. Except in matters of reproductive health and sexual relations, of course. Yeah, totally makes sense.
i,m a odds man,creation is everywhere.the odds of us being a certain distance from the sun,to have extreme heat and extreme cold id gigantic,then put in the odds of the moon situated at such a distance for a near perfect eclipse is megagiganticus.and also for the tides etc.even the gas giants protecting us from creational debris is phenonamal.
@mickwillie1 Yep, but because of the sheer amount of time involved, it HAD to happen eventually. Just like if you play the lottery a trillion times, you'll win at least once.
@mickwillie1 I didn't say it was a trillion years, I was making an example of how even something with a very low probability HAS to eventually happen when an extremely high amount of "attempts" are made. It's pretty much how everything DID happen. The chances a solar system forming life was uber low, but after billions of years it finally happened. Maybe if we were formed in the center of the universe in a position where earth would last forever, that'd be proof for creation. But it isn't so.
@mickwillie1 ...and you don't understand how all this could have come about, so therefore you think you can say "Magic man dun it" and feel that you've actually contributed with something.
We observe what we observe, because any life existing here must have developed to survive under these circumstances. Or are you saying that you know better than everyone else what the criteria are for a working ecosystem all across the cosmos?
It is a Personal experience. Maybe saying a sign from god is a bit much, as what they are referring to is a sudden realization or understanding of truth. It is this sudden realization or understanding that is the basis for their personal beliefs. You may argue there was no sign from god, no personal experience, but then again it was not meant for you, it was meant for them, and in the end, they end up believing what they believe because of what they experienced. You have no sight to judge it
Where do people get off saying that they had a sign for a god when there has never been solid evidence (ever) in history of any supernatural causes its always sombodies testimony which is about as valid as seeing a UFO nobody else saw it but you its always the case how is that valid when only one person who happens to be by them self all the time makes these claims.
A sign from god is a personal experience, it is not meant to mean anything to anyone other than the individual. The sign of god, or better put, a realization and sudden understanding of truth is meant to be taken as a personal experience, and that PERSONAL experience is what leads them to their beliefs. If there was no said experience of any sort (a personal revelation or understanding) then the belief that stems from that experience would be non existent.
@Ichthus91 It's just an opinion, no need to feel insulted. As a side note, though, shorty does have a point: many apologists don't do a very good job at defending their faith. Look at places like the Discovery Institute, where all they do is look at new scientific findings and then tell the scientists how they (the DI) know more about science than the scientists. Apologetics, and the lies that it perpetuates, is one of the many reasons I left Christianity.
Nevertheless, apologists are still people. Humanity will determine it's fate by their love or lack thereof. I'm one that will attempt, to my best ability, to ignore insults emotionally. My point is that we should be sophisticated when speaking about important matters.
I feel sorry for religious people because they are lost in darkness. when they think of god they feel emotions of pure love, protection, courage, rightness, and all knowledge..they feel safe..an it is just a emotion...but they dont understand it...people in ancient times manipulated this emotion into a religion to control other people...it is sad..dont hate them for they are simply lost as we all are at times..i hope one day those who are lost in darkness see truth and light..dont u?
"I feel sorry for religious people because they are lost in darkness. when they think of god they feel emotions of pure love, protection, courage, rightness, and all knowledge..they feel safe..an it is just a emotion...but they dont understand it...people in ancient times manipulated this emotion into a religion to control other people...it is sad..dont hate them for they are simply lost as we all are at times..." continued
Sure, everything in the universe (inside the universe) has a cause but that has no bearing at all on whether the universe itself must have a cause. The universe is a convenient descriptive noun for everything that exists. In a firework display you light the blue touch paper of every individual firework but that doesn't mean that the firework display itself has a blue touch paper. There's no logic in extrapolating any of the features of a closed system to the system as a whole.
It is so frustrating when people who know NOTHING about it try to tell you it is all wrong because they know better than all the experts; who never thought to wonder where everything came from (LOL). It is the "why are there still monkies" question in a different form.
However, once in a while some of them who are genuinely interested will listen and it is important to tell them the truth about it because they have only ever heard straw man lies.
When you believe in anything, you simultaneously give up a degree of your personal freedom, in that you will never believe anything that conflicts, no matter what. so in a sense, belief in anything is useless.
On the other hand everyone beliefs in something even though it doesnt necessarily have to be supernatural. Things like hard work leads to a better life and that your prefered political ideology is the best one. Which might not be true.
To assure ourselves of the existence of God, we have only to look abroad on the works of creation. The universe exists, therefore it has a cause. To doubt the existence of God is to doubt that every effect has a cause, and to assume that something can have been made by nothing.
Yes. God has always existed. who created the being that created the universe? don't be so stubborn. some things cannot be understood....infinity of time and numbers for example.
What am I being stubborn about? You made out that believing in God meant that everything has a cause. I pointed out that was flawed. Now you seem to agree, but I'm being stubborn about something?
I don't claim to understand anything. you athiests are so blind. you do not have to believe in a Christian God, or a Muslim God, or a Hindu God. but you should believe in something. if you think you will disappear into nothingness when you die....good luck with that.
"You atheists are blind" Nice persona attack there.
So it doesnt matter what transcendental omnipotent, omnipresent, all powerful deity i believe in, but I must pick one? Is that what you're saying? If so, why? Are you arguing pascalls wager? (wiki if not familiar),
I would like to live forever, but I don't want to believe something i have no evidence or rational justification to believe. It's a matter of evidence, not what makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
I was not sad about all the time i wasn't alive BEFORE i was born, why should I be sad about all the time after I die?
Again, if you have no evidence to support the notion of life after death, don't expect anyone else to take your claim seriously - other than as something you like to believe, or just guess might happen, simply because it makes you feel happier
lol.... I can say the same thing about you. if you cannot show me any evidence that there was nothing before this life and nothing after this life, then YOU also have nothing as proof either.
if this is the only life we live, then why are some people born into horrible lives that consist of them dying of starvation. how is this fair that you can drink beer and write on your laptop while they suffer?
just bad luck? I sincerely hope not.
my intention is not to make any personal attacks :)
Good that ur approaching this discussion without personal attacks. =)
Why are people born into set lives? Luck...what else, the world isnt fair, and bad things unfortunately happen to good people sometimes. Fairness says nothing about truth re this issue.
There is no evidence for any afterlife. People who make that claim have to provide demonstrable proof - the burden is on you. You cant just say "you can't disprove it so its possible". We must work with what we know to be real
Your explanation of a notion of afterlife seems to be motivated by a desire for fairness, but what evidence to you have to make the huge claim such things exist?
Sure, you can believe in things like that if it makes you feel better, but you shouldnt expect others to do so without evidence.
I want to accept as many truths and reject as many non truths as possible - and not belief things based on faith..
Trying to prove a negative is silly. I can't say that it takes the same amount of faith to not believe in Bigfoot as it does to believe in him/her.
And, if you understand how the mind works, there is reason to believe that we die with our bodies.
Also, do you realize that what you are offering is not evidence but rather what you would like to be true? For me, and I think I can speak for most atheists, wanting something to be true is just not enough to make us believe in something.
I do agree completely with cause and effect. nothing can change even the tiniest of corporeal actions, the path of an electron will follow the rules of physics. a bullet shot at a person will never waver from its course, no matter who it is.
I am more interested in the where electrons came from. you say Big Bang, I say how did the entire universe become squeezed to the size of a pimple and then explode?
do any of you believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe?
There was no explosion, it was an expansion. Imagine a balloon with dots on it and how the dots would move away from each other and the whole thing would expand when inflated.Also, there was no bang as there is no sound in space.
It is not that the universe got squeezed into a tiny point of singularity, that is looking at it backwards. And it is not as if all the matter was just packed together real tight. It is a very complicated thing, I suggest watching Cosmos.
Cosmos can be found on YT; Sagan does an excellent job explaining things in layman terms.
Also, the electrons and space did not come from the Big Bang. They took their current form, and time started, with the Big Bang, but nothing was materialized by it.
What I meant by the laws of cause and effect was that when people say "well stuff can't just pop into existence", those laws don't necessarily need to apply to our universe as a whole.
This is an extremely difficult concept, in fact, the way I have breifly detailed it is already misleading.
The other concepts that are almost always misunderstood regarding the Big Bang are 1) Time started with the Big Bang. Asking what came before it makes no sense, it is like asking what is north of the north pole. 2) All Space (empty area) was part of the tiny dot. People ask where the dot was; the answer is that it was the only place to be.
The area around that dot just did not exist; no void or open space. If you have an empty cup and say there is nothing in it, there is still a few inches of area where something can go. Like there is no water in the cup, there was no open space in existence for anything to go; that space expanded with the big bang. This is something that is almost universally not understood about the Big Bang.
The thing about crediting a god with all this is that it really isn't an answer as it explains nothing. Where did he get the material, remember theists always point out that things can't just pop into existence. How did he do it; what was the mechanism? Where was he and where is he now?
For some reason, theists have no problem with their god being outside of time and space and not needing a cause. Saying "god did it" is not an answer; it is a pacifier.
Many theists who actually understand evolution will say that god makes it all happen. Well, okay, I guess; but the mechanics and process of it is something we can learn about, and do. The creationists just say "god did it" and basically cop out. They never learn how stuff works because they don't examine it. Even if a god was making the Big Bang happen (or anything for that matter), we still want to find out how it happened, or else, like the creationists we will never know anything.
Bravo on your answer. Nobody knows how the universe was created. please do not pretend to even tell us that you or even Carl Sagan, Einstein, Hawkings or anyone else understands the universe. We are always discovering new sub-atomic particles and what is your thought on Dark Matter...I comprises 80% of the universes mass and we have absolutely no clue what it is. did it ever cross your mind that maybe we will never know all the answers?
"did it ever cross your mind that maybe we will never know all the answers?"
...It has never crossed my mind that we would or even could.
Yeah, nobody knows how (or if) the universe was created. If the universe was a cake, we know about how it went from a box of cake mix to a cake but we don't know the origins of the box of cake mix.
Many times people mispeak when they talk about the origin of the universe. What they mean is the current state that the universe is in.
jimbrown257... I am sorry to say this, but your analogy is totally lame :D And it seems kind of pointless also. It serves more to make it more complicated than to simplify the statement.
Cake mix becoming a fully formed cake is an excellent analogy for the point of singulaity becoming the current formation of our universe. All the necessary material was there, then they both underwent a rapid expansion (not an explosion) that developed a much different formation. The Big Bang is just the baking of the cake.
Can you tell me how it was lame or pointless? It is used an an excellent analogy to clear up misconceptions people have about the Big Bang.
If there are choclate chips in the cake, it is even better. As the cake rises, all the chips are moving away from each other just like the solar systems in the universe.
The only problem is when people misuse the analogy, like they do when comparing a living organism to a building or the brain to a computer. For example, the universe wasn't frosted and eaten at a birthday party like a cake.
@jimbrown257 Know men, and women where created for a reason. And i'f jesus was born by those 2 people adam and eve. man and women. Than doing another man is like being evil. or being lesbian is being evil. Know i am very religious and i am not a genius of god i don't know his thoughts at all. infact i don't know whether he made us or not but i do believe he is and i do love him for it. so to be honest i would say just do good.
"i am not a genius of god i don't know his thoughts at all."
...Then why do you presume to know that homosexuals are evil. Isn't there something in the NT about not judging others, though? Of course, you'd have no idea as you've never read the Bible, have you?
"i would say just do good."
...Here's how you can start being good: don't call other people who are doing you no harm and just trying to live their lives "evil".
@jimbrown257 The New Testament Bible says don't judge others unless you judged yourself, Which surely i have.And you wouldn't have to be a christian to understand.right and wrong.Look at the crime/drug/murderrates of religious people and compare them to the nonbelievers.And while you're at it, compare the happiness/tolerancerates and educationlevels. And to be honest i don't even go on this account hardly anymore mainly because i have my own account of the new more religious me.
"And while you're at it, compare the happiness/tolerancerates and educationlevels."
...Are you suggesting religious people are more educated and tolerant!?! If so, Google "Gallup poll education religion" to see how as one goes up, the other goes down.
"And why would you wanna live a negative way? might you have been abused and all you think of is ''Hate''?"
...How are you getting any of that from anything I've posted? Cut & paste one "hateful" thing I've said.
@jimbrown257 Also i'f you where so wize you'd realize that their are Pagans and evilous people to get you so you gotta watch out.. And why would you wanna live a negative way? might you have been abused and all you think of is ''Hate''?
Great caller. I wish most christians were at least as sincere in their belief as this caller. A knowledgeable Christian that has actually gone through the arguments and evidence, unlike most other uninformed theists.
Yea i was at work today came home and the trash can was knocked over. leaving the possibility that a giant purple fire breathing robot baby came in my home and knocked it over out of spite of me not being there.
tick,tock? Is that suppose to be some sort of play on my mortality? It's funny if thats the case. im fully aware of my mortality. It's you who needs to open your eyes and live life to the fullest instead of hoping against all logic that your immortal. I am also amused that your giving me thumbs down. Im tempted to do the same to you but i wont cause even though i strongly dissagree with what you say I fully support and respect your right to say it.
No, rather I was signifying time is running out for you and for me. I am not immortal until immortality is given to me. Man knows little about logic and reason when it comes to the soul and spiritual things. The 'science' of the physical is one thing, spiritual is a whole different ball game.
"Man knows little about logic and reason when it comes to the soul and spiritual things. The 'science' of the physical is one thing, spiritual is a whole different ball game"
...And yet religious people think they have god figured out down to what he thinks about two dudes holding hands.
It is only when someone points out their fallacies that they say "well, who are we to try to understand the mind of god?"
Um, they do when they talk about stem cells, condoms and abortions.
@jimbrown257 The story of my life...I think religious people carve their own image of God and what they want him or her to be. I'm tired of it all, I'm still waiting on the day when preachers start going out of business. Too bad so many people are brainwashed into believe these idiots, while some of them are still screwing male choir directors behind their wives backs as of today.
@ElCierto The world is a cycle, and to get around it you gotta confident yourself i'f you wanna make it, and motivate yourself i'f you wanna break it. You got the wicked, and the goods. Their are 2 things to believe good, or evil. and i chose good. Question is, what do you chose? Wanna be good and go to heaven and live peaceful, go to hell and burn for eternity? It's a strait up question. say god don't exist is like saying devil don't exists because, i'f satan exists god does. And good will win.
@jimbrown257 You know their are many evil and whicked out their, Their are untold stories and what not. And all i see is people falling with the evil and the illuminati and subliminal. Knowing what god thinks is really not that important right know, Hering the fact that all you needa do to get into heaven is to love one another, be good, love the lord, believe him, and worship him. Being gay is a whole nother subject. know i do know that being gay is like you pretty much selling your soul
@leo16mmiv Ok, Take a look inside the world? mankind has no love at all. Would you rather wanna be good? or bad. And go ahead with your negativity. WOrds speak out for your actions and i got evidence. Just look around man. everything in the bible is true. their is a rock in a cave with blood stains scientists found and 3 crosses. Watch some history channels.Read the bible and come to understand your rights. And for the info i'm not amused by your verbal abuse.
@XxXAllhopeisgone I feel sorry for you if you think that way about other people. You either might have a chemical imbalance, or you haven't taken the time to look around yourself. Are you saying that your family doesn't love you? Your friends and neighbours? If they all don't love you, you may have to look inside, the problem could be you. I'm sorry, but you must be the negative one. My family and friends love me. I don't think that everyone in the world has no love. I'm happy with myself.
@XxXAllhopeisgone "Put up or shut up" is not a verbal abuse. It's how we understand our world. If you have no reason to believe what you believe, by all means go ahead and believe it, but when you want to convince others that it's true, give evidence or be ready to receive nothing. If what you say is true about the crosses and blood stains, it would be all over the mostly Christian-dominated media.
@leo16mmiv Yeah pretty much is verbal abuse. And I will just live my life and not care for what you have to say that is negative, You just be living your life like they want you to...
@XxXAllhopeisgone Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way, but if you can't take a little criticism, I'm not sure what to tell you. If you think that asking you for evidence of what you're pushing up to other people is verbal abuse, shouldn't you not try to push that onto other people? The golden rule. Your asking us to believe without evidence, much worse than asking someone for evidence.
@leo16mmiv Look all I n' I have to say for people like you is to just leave the positive alone, For those who criticize one another and pressure hate on them will perish for the bad, and evil they do that hadn't asked to be forgiven. And don't believe it you will see, Scientists already proved and found evidence that Jesus exists and did everything it says in the bible, and the resurrection of christ. So that just tells me, all in the bible is true...
@XxXAllhopeisgone No offence but you have a really terrible prosecution complex if you think that I'm being "negative" and verbally abusive. Being verbally abusive would be calling you, and I quote, "a fucking pussy who can't handle the possibility of someone disagreeing with you", which isn't too far from the truth. Now you're just using an appeal to authority. "Scientists already proved and found evidence that Jesus exists and did everything it says in the bible"? Huh? Okay, which scientists?
@leo16mmiv You know, normally i'd be shit talking you. But as i learn more about my religion. i start to mellow out become, more mature. So you can rage all you want about this and that. And verbally abusive is talking about me, calling me a ''pussy'' is verbally. And I didn't here what scientist did. but they found a cloth with markings. which they claim could of been a message about afterlife and could of stated the resurrection of Christ.Basically i predicted that everything was true...
@XxXAllhopeisgone You're avoiding my question. The only things that are possible are the things that are possible. There is not the same amount of reasons to believe in gods or goddesses than not, and even if there were, that would not be a good enough reason to believe in them or it. If you mean that there is the same amount of evidence either way, the onus is on the one making a positive claim not the negative claim. I don't need any evidence to not believe in faeries, Spider-man or Big foot.
"I would disagree with you on that, but that's a completely separate issue."
No, it isn't. I would have asked the guy about his pet apologetic and verbally sodomized it but, to be fair, he was far nicer (and more coherent) than 99.9% of the theists who ring up.
JMUDoc 3 months ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker2
What sealed all gods fate with me was reading ancient mythology and watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos. Ancient mythology show exactly where all the stories in the bible came from. It was like duh! It's all made up. Since, I've learned a great deal more of how and why it got made up and how awesome the cosmos is w/o gods.
RhondaH 3 months ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker2
lol he said he disagrees but is to scared to say why sad
FIGHTFANNERD3 3 months ago
A theist who questioned his beliefs and sought more information... that's fantastic... the big question is why he's still a theist...
These logical/philosophical arguments are aimed at atheists, and almost all of them fail to identify a specific theistic god; they end up at some nebulous DEISTIC god and then the apologist claims THEIR holy book/scripture bridges the gap. Sorry, theists - if your scritpure didn't work for us BEFORE your logical argument, it won't work AFTER it, either.
JMUDoc 5 months ago
Become a better Christian ..... kill and Atheist
jontibloom 6 months ago
Fellow Believer, If you could help me help GOD by doing this, it would be much appreciated. Please report a user called "DeathrasherAndrew". He is spreading the words of Satan with his music. Also report the background of his channel, it contains violent, disgusting ponography.
Tell your friends to report him as well, just me and you won't make a difference.
Thank you so much, God Bless
MrCirclePitter 7 months ago
@MrCirclePitter But wait, wouldn't you WANT people to believe in Satan? That would also validate the existence of the Christian God. You can't believe in Satan without acknowledging that Christianity is true.
Zemed87 7 months ago
Ach, XxXAllhopeisgone's spelling is diabolical. lol
Pretty sure this caller Patrick, was in fact Shawn. >.<
UnitedKingdomify 8 months ago
Humanity is waking up....
CntrBrdr 9 months ago
that was a great call.
evvee345 9 months ago
@jesusluvsu75
FAITH IS NOT believing without logic .
Many scientists came to the logical conclusion that the level of complexity of the universe DEMANDS A SUPER INTELLIGENT ALMIGHTY ETERNAL OMNISCIENT OMNIPRESENT CREATOR.
What is eminently ILLOGICAL is this atheistic statement : THERE IS NO GOD ANYWHERE BUT I DID NOT SEARCH every GALAXY EVERYWHERE.
IT is LOGICAL to believe that GOD wrote the BIBLE AS more ELS CODED MESSAGES are pulled from the text.
SEE my playlist BIBLE - CODES
Globalfaithmedia 10 months ago
@Globalfaithmedia Many scientists - who?
Atheism doesn't state that there is no god anywhere. Please look up the definition.
Also, if you believe the Bible Code is true... I can find the words "NAZI WIN WORLD WAR" in a Bible Code searcher. What do you think about that?
Zemed87 10 months ago
Hi, I thought the guy in red's testimony was very transparent & sincere. I can tell you where you went wrong (mindful that hell exists for nonbelievers).
You were trying to justify your faith with logic or empirical evidence. Faith is believing without logic or evidence. Trusting is without evidence. (If the bank really trusted you, they wouldn't ask for a cosigner.) So the devil talked you into thinking that you really shouldn't believe in something if it can't be proved. (no more trust in God)
JesusLuvsU75 10 months ago
Comment removed
dawn0293 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dawn0293 *I meant Believing without evidence (faith) is a piss poor justification for believing anything.
dawn0293 10 months ago
whene i was 12 years old my parents died.my wonderfull christian family would not help me so i lived on the streets for a long time.i dont think cristians are the moral peaple that they want you to think they are.my christian family are extreamly rich so money was not the problem maybe it was there cristian morals the morals thay clame to be better than atheist morals!
billbo1154 11 months ago
hey im 14 and i have to devate about some of the stuff u guys said! i am dealing with the same problem please let me kno how to contact
russianrusaln 11 months ago
@russianrusaln 1) Format for the debate? 2.) Side that you are taking? 3.) How much understanding of the ideas that are common or the best arguments for the other side do you have, and for your own side? If you're wanting to call in to The Atheist Experience, as it seems (id lile to call = I'd like to call?), the contact information is available in the description, and times for the show are available through the links.
NoNamesLeft0102 11 months ago
hey id lile to call im 14 years old and is dealing with exact same and u have to debate against most of tge stupid things you athiests said!!!!!!!
russianrusaln 11 months ago
A great conversation from a Theist for a change - great call!!!
SkepticalBliss 11 months ago
Even if the universe began to exist doesn't prove that God was the cause of the universe beginning. It may of been some natural cause or may not of had a cause. It just happened. (I tend to think it was a natural cause and that was caused by a natural cause and so forth infinitum.)
mjh012363 1 year ago
I LOVE the song from the beginning of the video... Song from SCREAM <3
STARKARAOKETV 1 year ago
This caller was convinced by William Craig's arguments. I would have hung up long ago.
RichieJohnSauls 1 year ago
Possibly the most reasonable argument for religion here on Youtube.
You Christians can learn something from the intellect of the caller.
minnescanada 1 year ago
@minnescanada Are you serious? He has spoken nonsense for the entire call.
RichieJohnSauls 1 year ago
On the fallacies of Kalam: We also do not know at all that everything that begins to exist has a cause.
Kailoa36 1 year ago
Matt/Martin, the assertion that the Universe began to exist, though it is undemonstrated is not really the fatal flaw in the cosmological argument, since I think both you and I would be happy to hold a discussion on the basis of that hypothesis. The real problem lies in how they try to get from 'it began to exist' to 'therefore god'.
TheGodlessGuitarist 1 year ago
This guy sounds like venomfangX wow, if it is, and hes saying this, then im am astonished... good for him.
CropDuster33 1 year ago 8
@CropDuster33 He sounded a bit too intelligent and thoughtful to be Venom (shaun), .. also, i think i heard the name Patrick at the end. It would be interesting to know that guys stance now (over 2 years on), as to wether he still has his same views.
bonnie43uk 3 months ago
@bonnie43uk oh yeah me too
CropDuster33 3 months ago
Are Matt and Martin doing their "Nephilim Free" impressions? ;)
destronia123 1 year ago
Every time I watch this video it tears me up because I can actually feel the callers logical rational brain trying to almost physically tear itself away from the indoctrinated scared part of his brain. I wish I knew where the caller is now because I'm absolutely convinced he's come over to the dark side.
nakedapedude 1 year ago
um okaaay I just wanted to know how to be a better christian
Heva8u 1 year ago
C.S. Lewis doesn't delve in to evidence or philosophy? impassioned plea? get real
Gangjoyful 1 year ago
That caller sound JUST like venomfangX -.- why do so many of the AE callers sound like that asshat -.-
Kretain 1 year ago
You were raised Christian? Same here, my mom dad are are both Independent Baptists and Reagan Conservatives. I was Homeschooled by my mom by the ACE School of Tomorrow curriculum, which didn't work when she found out I was mentally handicapped. She saw I wasn't learning my math like I should have, so he said I had something called Dyscalcula.
DeaneRenata 1 year ago
If I was ask, what is your proff of God. I would answer DNA. Where the information came from? Yes you can explain how the ink can bond to the paper in a New York Times, but you can't explain how the ink arranged to be words, sentence, paragraf that can be understood by the english speaker reader.
probokator 1 year ago
@probokator ....it's a long explanation..but YES we can explain how we formed words(of all sorts of living and dead languages)and how we understand them.
VinceStafford 1 year ago
@probokator For DNA there is no reader. That's the point where your supposed srguments flies out of the window.
gagnashdiak 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak ??? All of our body chemical and biological process is the reader of DNA. All the process happends by decoding the information stored in the DNA.
probokator 1 year ago
@probokator No. Any molecule is just a mindless automaton what does what it unavoidably has to. There is no info coded / stored / decoded in the DNA, only that much what is "coded" in a slope.
gagnashdiak 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak you compare DNA which is a blueprint of an organism which is very complex to a slope which only have pattern?
probokator 1 year ago
@probokator DNA is NOT a blueprint. It doesn't work at all the way blueprints work. DNA is a natural core for biological organisms. It is - if you really want to compare it to something - a starting piece of a crystal. It is as much a "blueprint" as the mass of a planet what makes it have gravity, or the degree of a slope what "blueprints" that things will slide on it.
gagnashdiak 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak An organism pass its traits to the next generation via what agents? DNA I suppose. The traits of organism, for example, human. his skin, eyes, hair color, that the fenotip, see more into the organs, how the lungs works, hormon produced, see again into the cell, the shape of mitocondria, how its work, chemical reaction happend each second, etc etc. Thats really a lot. If it is stored in computer, I dont think terra bytes would be enough. Yet you said what? core? I don't understand
probokator 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak DNA: structures that carry genetic INFROMATION inside a living organism. use to pass hereditary traits. It holds the plan for making new, EXACT copies of each cell. (I do not makes this definition).
probokator 1 year ago
@probokator You don't understand technical terms. highlight should be: "genetic information", not "genetic INFORMATION".
Also the whole definition you qoute from books (I'm aware of that) made for human understanding - it is a MODEL. The definition is explained for at least an hour in secondaryschool.
As the DNA is SELFcoding (codes itself, reads itself, carry itself) AND is a mindless molecule it's NOT equivalent with computercode.
Also no reason to highlight "exact" as there is alway mistakes.
gagnashdiak 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak "Ribosomes are the components of cells that make proteins from all amino acids. It READ the INFORMATION from RNA and use it to create proteins. This process is known as TRANSLATION". Information? Read? Translate? those word support my original claim. You may say that they are used only for human understanding. Well, that is true, FOR HUMAN UNDERSTANDING. Because that is what human actually understand it.
probokator 1 year ago
@probokator Again you oly prove you don't understand the technical language. ribosomes as much "reades" RNA as the sliding object reads the slope. The RNA contains as much "information" as a slope determining what'll slide down on it. There is as much "translation" as playing origami.
And as the whle process goes as good with humans peeking their nose in it as when they do not, you fully misunderstand what those text wants to tell.
gagnashdiak 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak Computer program basically 1 and 0, on and off. It's the only thing machine could understand. But by coding that simple on and off, machine could do various task. Maybe ribosom only read RNA like "what slide on it", but that reading give direction to ribosom on what kind of protein be made, how much, and when. Those protein made into various enzim, organels, cells, with various function, working together, create organs, and organism. That was information.
probokator 1 year ago
@probokator machines understand nothing. They only work with that. Humans are the one who understand. Again you don't understand technical language.
So you say slopes are intelligent beings what're reading the objects on it? You're fuckin' nonsense.
And you mix two entirelly different meaning of information. Again you need to consult a professional, as you alone are uncapable to do your homework and understand what's the difference between computer-code and physical attributes.
gagnashdiak 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak Fuck? No need for that....
probokator 1 year ago
@gagnashdiak That was information, it cannot compared to slopes in the mountains which do not have any meaning.
probokator 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you will go to hell if your not muslim
MsDJ619 1 year ago
arguments....theology...premises...these guys are relying on their minds, and ignoring their souls....that's why faith is called "faith."
ff789n10 1 year ago
Think about it! We were soooo close to having another Matt Dillaunty in this caller!
Jostedalsosten 1 year ago
WoW , That was one of the coolest thiest callers I've ever heard on this show.
This guy is proof that not all religious ppl are batshit crazy but seeking answers from a different perspective and is open to criticism without getting defensive.
I'm not saying that this sort of person would have any luck in converting me as I am a rock solid athiest. However I would say that debating him would be a pleasure.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
Man he listens to Pasta !
TheFreemanuk 1 year ago
BEST christian caller ever. reasonable, calm, and not 100% full of crazy.
kingbane2 1 year ago
@kingbane2 in other words, future agnostic or atheist. or maybe deist.
BillKiernan 1 year ago
voice sounds like venomfangx
casteldredge 1 year ago
Good show fellas. I applaud your open easy way of listening and comment. I'm an agnostic that cringes at some of the "evangelical" methods of many atheists out there today.
mydogbanjo 1 year ago
I like these guys. They are very tolerant atheists. But that makes them more influencial as well and that may not be such a good thing.
buddymartin71 1 year ago
@buddymartin71
Well , that really depends on what side of the street you stand on I suppose.
I personally feel that we make far better progress in discussions like these than simply turning a debate into who can talk the loudest.
Even though I am an athiest I claim no certainty as to whether a god exists or not. I have just not had the experience many thiests claim to have had nor do I believe any such experience will occur. Until such a thing happens I can only be sincere in where I stand now.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
@rattlehead66666 Very nice. One day you will have that experience. I just hope it isn't too late. I am a Christian and I believe Jesus will return one day and probably sooner than later. All people will know who God is in that day. Within the limits of the material world, man can never see the whole Truth until God reveals it to us.
The world is not going to stay in this terrible state of war and suffering forever. That is one reason the return of Jesus is something to look forward to.
buddymartin71 1 year ago
@buddymartin71
If we are only limited to the material world than why do so many ppl claim to know things beyond it?
Not too start an argument or even call you out on spite. It just seems contradictory to me is all. I will never claim certainty about whether a god does/does not exist simply because there is no real way of knowing.
The concept of faith itself alone is just not enough for me and shouldn't be for anyone. I urge you to seek the answers urself than take someone elses word on it.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
@rattlehead66666 The reason we can know some things is that God has revealed some things to us. Its revealed to all, but only with faith do people conciously believe them with their minds.There are many ways God reveals things about the spiritual world. Man has a physical body and a spirtual self. I believe our spirit can understand a lot more than our minds can see because it is part of the spiritual world.
buddymartin71 1 year ago
@buddymartin71
Actually , the reason why we know so much today is because ppl have worked hard to find the answers. No offence but I think it's kinda sad that you would discredit ppl who dedicate thier entire lives researching what we know today. To assume that the things we know could not have been discovered otherwise is rather insulting. I agree that we have a physical self , spiritual however is something that we can only speculate on. To say that it's a certainty is obsurd.
No offence.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
@rattlehead66666 What? I am not discrediting peoples life long work to learn about what we know today. We were discussing the spiritual world cannot be proven, so how do we know any of it. I say it is revealed by God and man uses our efforts to learn about those revelations. That doesn't discredit man's work to obtain knowledge.
buddymartin71 1 year ago
@buddymartin71
Ok , I guess I misunderstood. My apologies.
The thing is , though a spiritual realm(world as you put it) is not impossible. It is most likely improbable. Of course I like the idea of a life of some sort after this one but I just don't see (aside from dying) How we could ever know about it in this life.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
@rattlehead66666 MEGADETH!!!
megaluisdeth 1 year ago
@megaluisdeth
Haha , I think ur the 1st one to finally pick up on my name.
Cheers!!
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
@rattlehead66666 I am not 100%, but I think every man's spirit knows God exists, but there is a choice of wether to befriend God or to believe in our minds that He doesn't exist. I believe we can use our minds to strive to understand the Truth as much as possible, or we can close our minds to God.
When you say you are not certain God exists, you admit it is possible for a spiritual world to exist. I also urge you to seek answers beyond faith and do not worry about criticism by either side
buddymartin71 1 year ago
@buddymartin71
I see it more as a choice to believe what is written in a book or believe what can be experienced through all 5 senses. Now maybe there is a god who has reached you in some way that convinced you he is real. I respect that. But I myself have never had set experience and would be dishonest to myself if I were to become a believer 2morrow. The only reason I am an athiest today is lack of proof(That I need) to believe otherwise. It's really that simple.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
@rattlehead66666, Aside from faith, I see it as very highly probably that their is a spiritual world based on the proof I see with my 5 senses and the brain God gave me to think with. I believe people have too much faith in the mind of Man considering the limited information that Man bases logical arguments on. So when I see evidence that their is a God, I then concede that I do not have the entire story about all that exists.There is more to existence than what we can see with our senses
buddymartin71 1 year ago
@buddymartin71
"I believe people have too much faith in the mind of Man considering the limited information that Man bases logical arguments on."
I agree with this statement but also believe that the same can be said for those who believe in the bible. As I said , if u have had an experience that has convinced you that god is real , I respect that. However , many ppl of all religions believe it because of how they were raised and what they were taught.
They have no other reason to believe.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
@buddymartin71 I support the Venus Project, which would solve the state of the world today. Jesus would have nothing to do with it, of course. If we want a sane world, we have to do it our selves.
herpiethelovebug 1 year ago
How is a a bad premise? There have been strong scientific origin or beginning arguments of the universe. So yes we know something.
RlCHART 1 year ago
blah blah blah. Who gives a rat's ass about god, heaven, jesus, satan or the other grimms fairy tales? do something to help others NOW, and cut this crap.
rumpwrestler 1 year ago
Finally a decent caller!
rclawitw 1 year ago 34
God works in mysterious ways we cannot possibly know. Except in matters of reproductive health and sexual relations, of course. Yeah, totally makes sense.
lagerbaer 1 year ago 7
Martin's face at 2:20 to 2:30
coreygames 1 year ago
j o y o f s a t a n . o r g
MrBelford666 1 year ago
i,m a odds man,creation is everywhere.the odds of us being a certain distance from the sun,to have extreme heat and extreme cold id gigantic,then put in the odds of the moon situated at such a distance for a near perfect eclipse is megagiganticus.and also for the tides etc.even the gas giants protecting us from creational debris is phenonamal.
mickwillie1 1 year ago
@mickwillie1 Yep, but because of the sheer amount of time involved, it HAD to happen eventually. Just like if you play the lottery a trillion times, you'll win at least once.
MKRX7 1 year ago
@MKRX7 yep lets pluck that number from the sky,pardon the pun.was it 1,000 billion years.lmao.
mickwillie1 1 year ago
@mickwillie1 I didn't say it was a trillion years, I was making an example of how even something with a very low probability HAS to eventually happen when an extremely high amount of "attempts" are made. It's pretty much how everything DID happen. The chances a solar system forming life was uber low, but after billions of years it finally happened. Maybe if we were formed in the center of the universe in a position where earth would last forever, that'd be proof for creation. But it isn't so.
MKRX7 1 year ago
@mickwillie1 ...and you don't understand how all this could have come about, so therefore you think you can say "Magic man dun it" and feel that you've actually contributed with something.
We observe what we observe, because any life existing here must have developed to survive under these circumstances. Or are you saying that you know better than everyone else what the criteria are for a working ecosystem all across the cosmos?
Scurmicurv 1 year ago
It is a Personal experience. Maybe saying a sign from god is a bit much, as what they are referring to is a sudden realization or understanding of truth. It is this sudden realization or understanding that is the basis for their personal beliefs. You may argue there was no sign from god, no personal experience, but then again it was not meant for you, it was meant for them, and in the end, they end up believing what they believe because of what they experienced. You have no sight to judge it
trippingwithmetal 1 year ago
Where do people get off saying that they had a sign for a god when there has never been solid evidence (ever) in history of any supernatural causes its always sombodies testimony which is about as valid as seeing a UFO nobody else saw it but you its always the case how is that valid when only one person who happens to be by them self all the time makes these claims.
wachnathan 1 year ago
A sign from god is a personal experience, it is not meant to mean anything to anyone other than the individual. The sign of god, or better put, a realization and sudden understanding of truth is meant to be taken as a personal experience, and that PERSONAL experience is what leads them to their beliefs. If there was no said experience of any sort (a personal revelation or understanding) then the belief that stems from that experience would be non existent.
trippingwithmetal 1 year ago
What the fuck is a christian 'apologist'? Can somone please give me a definition and how they differ from other christains?
shorty962 1 year ago
@shorty962 Apologetics: the branch of theology that is concerned with the defense of Christian doctrines
Ichthus91 1 year ago
Oh ok lol thanks. I prefer to call them 'bullshitters'.
shorty962 1 year ago
@shorty962 That's directly insulting to me and that's not very sophisticated of you.
Ichthus91 1 year ago
@Ichthus91 It's just an opinion, no need to feel insulted. As a side note, though, shorty does have a point: many apologists don't do a very good job at defending their faith. Look at places like the Discovery Institute, where all they do is look at new scientific findings and then tell the scientists how they (the DI) know more about science than the scientists. Apologetics, and the lies that it perpetuates, is one of the many reasons I left Christianity.
amaiDT 1 year ago
Nevertheless, apologists are still people. Humanity will determine it's fate by their love or lack thereof. I'm one that will attempt, to my best ability, to ignore insults emotionally. My point is that we should be sophisticated when speaking about important matters.
Ichthus91 1 year ago
@Ichthus91 how about a more literal explanation? Some one who should apologize for being a Xian?
Unit63 1 year ago
Christian apologists main job is to create arguments for believing a Christian God.
MrXZodiacInfinitY 1 year ago
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I feel sorry for religious people because they are lost in darkness. when they think of god they feel emotions of pure love, protection, courage, rightness, and all knowledge..they feel safe..an it is just a emotion...but they dont understand it...people in ancient times manipulated this emotion into a religion to control other people...it is sad..dont hate them for they are simply lost as we all are at times..i hope one day those who are lost in darkness see truth and light..dont u?
davidjungling 1 year ago
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@davidjungling This has been flagged as spam hide
"I feel sorry for religious people because they are lost in darkness. when they think of god they feel emotions of pure love, protection, courage, rightness, and all knowledge..they feel safe..an it is just a emotion...but they dont understand it...people in ancient times manipulated this emotion into a religion to control other people...it is sad..dont hate them for they are simply lost as we all are at times..." continued
psycotria 1 year ago
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@psycotria Continued from Spam Blocked post ...
@davidjungling "... i hope one day those who are lost in darkness see truth and light..dont u?"
psycotria 1 year ago
cool
hvutrong 2 years ago
ain't nothing lower than an apologist!
ytben26 2 years ago
I was very fortunate enough to grow up in an entirely secularist household :D
It is a shame so many others were not so lucky.
AEgamesFtw 2 years ago
Sure, everything in the universe (inside the universe) has a cause but that has no bearing at all on whether the universe itself must have a cause. The universe is a convenient descriptive noun for everything that exists. In a firework display you light the blue touch paper of every individual firework but that doesn't mean that the firework display itself has a blue touch paper. There's no logic in extrapolating any of the features of a closed system to the system as a whole.
usefulmusic 2 years ago
Dang, that is a pretty good analogy.
It is so frustrating when people who know NOTHING about it try to tell you it is all wrong because they know better than all the experts; who never thought to wonder where everything came from (LOL). It is the "why are there still monkies" question in a different form.
However, once in a while some of them who are genuinely interested will listen and it is important to tell them the truth about it because they have only ever heard straw man lies.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
You're an analogy
SupermarketsRevil 2 years ago
What book did he say he read at 2:11 ? I can't figure it out
spurspower 2 years ago
"Evidence That Demands A Verdict" - Josh McDowell
zecnobot 2 years ago
Southern Baptists are fucking crazy people.
Codfert970 2 years ago 4
Nah they just have a crazy belief. Which sometimes makes things harder.
Findulidas 2 years ago
When you believe in anything, you simultaneously give up a degree of your personal freedom, in that you will never believe anything that conflicts, no matter what. so in a sense, belief in anything is useless.
Codfert970 2 years ago
I do not disagree with you there.
On the other hand everyone beliefs in something even though it doesnt necessarily have to be supernatural. Things like hard work leads to a better life and that your prefered political ideology is the best one. Which might not be true.
Findulidas 2 years ago
To assure ourselves of the existence of God, we have only to look abroad on the works of creation. The universe exists, therefore it has a cause. To doubt the existence of God is to doubt that every effect has a cause, and to assume that something can have been made by nothing.
brucebu 2 years ago
@brucebu
Like how God was made by nothing?
Believing in God doesn't save causality because you're left with the question--what caused God?
Aaron31909 2 years ago
God has always existed. God cannot have been "born", otherwise "its" creator would be equal or greater than God and there is only 1 God.
brucebu 2 years ago
@brucebu
So God had no cause? Therefore you believe something had an effect without a cause...
Aaron31909 2 years ago 4
Yes. God has always existed. who created the being that created the universe? don't be so stubborn. some things cannot be understood....infinity of time and numbers for example.
brucebu 2 years ago
@brucebu
What am I being stubborn about? You made out that believing in God meant that everything has a cause. I pointed out that was flawed. Now you seem to agree, but I'm being stubborn about something?
Aaron31909 2 years ago
Some things cannot be understood, yet you claim to understand by saying god caused it all?
SupermarketsRevil 2 years ago
I don't claim to understand anything. you athiests are so blind. you do not have to believe in a Christian God, or a Muslim God, or a Hindu God. but you should believe in something. if you think you will disappear into nothingness when you die....good luck with that.
brucebu 2 years ago
"You atheists are blind" Nice persona attack there.
So it doesnt matter what transcendental omnipotent, omnipresent, all powerful deity i believe in, but I must pick one? Is that what you're saying? If so, why? Are you arguing pascalls wager? (wiki if not familiar),
I would like to live forever, but I don't want to believe something i have no evidence or rational justification to believe. It's a matter of evidence, not what makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
SupermarketsRevil 2 years ago 2
I was not sad about all the time i wasn't alive BEFORE i was born, why should I be sad about all the time after I die?
Again, if you have no evidence to support the notion of life after death, don't expect anyone else to take your claim seriously - other than as something you like to believe, or just guess might happen, simply because it makes you feel happier
SupermarketsRevil 2 years ago 2
lol.... I can say the same thing about you. if you cannot show me any evidence that there was nothing before this life and nothing after this life, then YOU also have nothing as proof either.
if this is the only life we live, then why are some people born into horrible lives that consist of them dying of starvation. how is this fair that you can drink beer and write on your laptop while they suffer?
just bad luck? I sincerely hope not.
my intention is not to make any personal attacks :)
brucebu 2 years ago
Good that ur approaching this discussion without personal attacks. =)
Why are people born into set lives? Luck...what else, the world isnt fair, and bad things unfortunately happen to good people sometimes. Fairness says nothing about truth re this issue.
There is no evidence for any afterlife. People who make that claim have to provide demonstrable proof - the burden is on you. You cant just say "you can't disprove it so its possible". We must work with what we know to be real
SupermarketsRevil 2 years ago
Your explanation of a notion of afterlife seems to be motivated by a desire for fairness, but what evidence to you have to make the huge claim such things exist?
Sure, you can believe in things like that if it makes you feel better, but you shouldnt expect others to do so without evidence.
I want to accept as many truths and reject as many non truths as possible - and not belief things based on faith..
SupermarketsRevil 2 years ago
Trying to prove a negative is silly. I can't say that it takes the same amount of faith to not believe in Bigfoot as it does to believe in him/her.
And, if you understand how the mind works, there is reason to believe that we die with our bodies.
Also, do you realize that what you are offering is not evidence but rather what you would like to be true? For me, and I think I can speak for most atheists, wanting something to be true is just not enough to make us believe in something.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
I do agree completely with cause and effect. nothing can change even the tiniest of corporeal actions, the path of an electron will follow the rules of physics. a bullet shot at a person will never waver from its course, no matter who it is.
I am more interested in the where electrons came from. you say Big Bang, I say how did the entire universe become squeezed to the size of a pimple and then explode?
do any of you believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe?
brucebu 2 years ago
There was no explosion, it was an expansion. Imagine a balloon with dots on it and how the dots would move away from each other and the whole thing would expand when inflated.Also, there was no bang as there is no sound in space.
It is not that the universe got squeezed into a tiny point of singularity, that is looking at it backwards. And it is not as if all the matter was just packed together real tight. It is a very complicated thing, I suggest watching Cosmos.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
Cont:
Cosmos can be found on YT; Sagan does an excellent job explaining things in layman terms.
Also, the electrons and space did not come from the Big Bang. They took their current form, and time started, with the Big Bang, but nothing was materialized by it.
What I meant by the laws of cause and effect was that when people say "well stuff can't just pop into existence", those laws don't necessarily need to apply to our universe as a whole.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
Cont:
This is an extremely difficult concept, in fact, the way I have breifly detailed it is already misleading.
The other concepts that are almost always misunderstood regarding the Big Bang are 1) Time started with the Big Bang. Asking what came before it makes no sense, it is like asking what is north of the north pole. 2) All Space (empty area) was part of the tiny dot. People ask where the dot was; the answer is that it was the only place to be.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
Cont:
The area around that dot just did not exist; no void or open space. If you have an empty cup and say there is nothing in it, there is still a few inches of area where something can go. Like there is no water in the cup, there was no open space in existence for anything to go; that space expanded with the big bang. This is something that is almost universally not understood about the Big Bang.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
Cont:
The thing about crediting a god with all this is that it really isn't an answer as it explains nothing. Where did he get the material, remember theists always point out that things can't just pop into existence. How did he do it; what was the mechanism? Where was he and where is he now?
For some reason, theists have no problem with their god being outside of time and space and not needing a cause. Saying "god did it" is not an answer; it is a pacifier.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
Cont:
Many theists who actually understand evolution will say that god makes it all happen. Well, okay, I guess; but the mechanics and process of it is something we can learn about, and do. The creationists just say "god did it" and basically cop out. They never learn how stuff works because they don't examine it. Even if a god was making the Big Bang happen (or anything for that matter), we still want to find out how it happened, or else, like the creationists we will never know anything.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
Jimbo,
Bravo on your answer. Nobody knows how the universe was created. please do not pretend to even tell us that you or even Carl Sagan, Einstein, Hawkings or anyone else understands the universe. We are always discovering new sub-atomic particles and what is your thought on Dark Matter...I comprises 80% of the universes mass and we have absolutely no clue what it is. did it ever cross your mind that maybe we will never know all the answers?
brucebu 2 years ago
@ brucebo
"did it ever cross your mind that maybe we will never know all the answers?"
...It has never crossed my mind that we would or even could.
Yeah, nobody knows how (or if) the universe was created. If the universe was a cake, we know about how it went from a box of cake mix to a cake but we don't know the origins of the box of cake mix.
Many times people mispeak when they talk about the origin of the universe. What they mean is the current state that the universe is in.
jimbrown257 2 years ago 2
jimbrown257... I am sorry to say this, but your analogy is totally lame :D And it seems kind of pointless also. It serves more to make it more complicated than to simplify the statement.
AEgamesFtw 2 years ago
@AEgamesFtw
Cake mix becoming a fully formed cake is an excellent analogy for the point of singulaity becoming the current formation of our universe. All the necessary material was there, then they both underwent a rapid expansion (not an explosion) that developed a much different formation. The Big Bang is just the baking of the cake.
Can you tell me how it was lame or pointless? It is used an an excellent analogy to clear up misconceptions people have about the Big Bang.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
@AEgamesFtw
Cont:
If there are choclate chips in the cake, it is even better. As the cake rises, all the chips are moving away from each other just like the solar systems in the universe.
The only problem is when people misuse the analogy, like they do when comparing a living organism to a building or the brain to a computer. For example, the universe wasn't frosted and eaten at a birthday party like a cake.
jimbrown257 2 years ago
@jimbrown257 Know men, and women where created for a reason. And i'f jesus was born by those 2 people adam and eve. man and women. Than doing another man is like being evil. or being lesbian is being evil. Know i am very religious and i am not a genius of god i don't know his thoughts at all. infact i don't know whether he made us or not but i do believe he is and i do love him for it. so to be honest i would say just do good.
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone
"i am not a genius of god i don't know his thoughts at all."
...Then why do you presume to know that homosexuals are evil. Isn't there something in the NT about not judging others, though? Of course, you'd have no idea as you've never read the Bible, have you?
"i would say just do good."
...Here's how you can start being good: don't call other people who are doing you no harm and just trying to live their lives "evil".
jimbrown257 8 months ago
@jimbrown257 The New Testament Bible says don't judge others unless you judged yourself, Which surely i have.And you wouldn't have to be a christian to understand.right and wrong.Look at the crime/drug/murderrates of religious people and compare them to the nonbelievers.And while you're at it, compare the happiness/tolerancerates and educationlevels. And to be honest i don't even go on this account hardly anymore mainly because i have my own account of the new more religious me.
XxXAllhopeisgone 5 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone
"And while you're at it, compare the happiness/tolerancerates and educationlevels."
...Are you suggesting religious people are more educated and tolerant!?! If so, Google "Gallup poll education religion" to see how as one goes up, the other goes down.
"And why would you wanna live a negative way? might you have been abused and all you think of is ''Hate''?"
...How are you getting any of that from anything I've posted? Cut & paste one "hateful" thing I've said.
jimbrown257 5 months ago
@jimbrown257 Also i'f you where so wize you'd realize that their are Pagans and evilous people to get you so you gotta watch out.. And why would you wanna live a negative way? might you have been abused and all you think of is ''Hate''?
XxXAllhopeisgone 5 months ago
Great caller. I wish most christians were at least as sincere in their belief as this caller. A knowledgeable Christian that has actually gone through the arguments and evidence, unlike most other uninformed theists.
MarxKnewBest 2 years ago 3
8:19 - Exactly! Leaving the possibility that God created the Universe wide open.
BOX5500 2 years ago
Yea i was at work today came home and the trash can was knocked over. leaving the possibility that a giant purple fire breathing robot baby came in my home and knocked it over out of spite of me not being there.
HellsGate9999 2 years ago
was aimed at BOX5500 btw
HellsGate9999 2 years ago
If that's the way you think about it you'll never get it.
Your comment is pointless.
BOX5500 2 years ago
well if thats the way YOU think then you will never get it.
YOUR comment is pointless.
see what i did there?
HellsGate9999 2 years ago 2
Tick, tock...
BOX5500 2 years ago
tick,tock? Is that suppose to be some sort of play on my mortality? It's funny if thats the case. im fully aware of my mortality. It's you who needs to open your eyes and live life to the fullest instead of hoping against all logic that your immortal. I am also amused that your giving me thumbs down. Im tempted to do the same to you but i wont cause even though i strongly dissagree with what you say I fully support and respect your right to say it.
HellsGate9999 2 years ago
No, rather I was signifying time is running out for you and for me. I am not immortal until immortality is given to me. Man knows little about logic and reason when it comes to the soul and spiritual things. The 'science' of the physical is one thing, spiritual is a whole different ball game.
BOX5500 2 years ago
*Rolls eyes* Well your free to have faith in what ever you choose i supppose. Have a wounderful life.
HellsGate9999 2 years ago 3
Thumbs up!
BOX5500 2 years ago
@ BOX5500
"Man knows little about logic and reason when it comes to the soul and spiritual things. The 'science' of the physical is one thing, spiritual is a whole different ball game"
...And yet religious people think they have god figured out down to what he thinks about two dudes holding hands.
It is only when someone points out their fallacies that they say "well, who are we to try to understand the mind of god?"
Um, they do when they talk about stem cells, condoms and abortions.
jimbrown257 2 years ago 71
@jimbrown257 The story of my life...I think religious people carve their own image of God and what they want him or her to be. I'm tired of it all, I'm still waiting on the day when preachers start going out of business. Too bad so many people are brainwashed into believe these idiots, while some of them are still screwing male choir directors behind their wives backs as of today.
ElCierto 1 year ago
@ElCierto The world is a cycle, and to get around it you gotta confident yourself i'f you wanna make it, and motivate yourself i'f you wanna break it. You got the wicked, and the goods. Their are 2 things to believe good, or evil. and i chose good. Question is, what do you chose? Wanna be good and go to heaven and live peaceful, go to hell and burn for eternity? It's a strait up question. say god don't exist is like saying devil don't exists because, i'f satan exists god does. And good will win.
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@jimbrown257 You know their are many evil and whicked out their, Their are untold stories and what not. And all i see is people falling with the evil and the illuminati and subliminal. Knowing what god thinks is really not that important right know, Hering the fact that all you needa do to get into heaven is to love one another, be good, love the lord, believe him, and worship him. Being gay is a whole nother subject. know i do know that being gay is like you pretty much selling your soul
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone Conspiracy theories and meaningless words is all I can hear from your direction. Put up evidence to your claims or shut up.
leo16mmiv 9 months ago
@leo16mmiv Ok, Take a look inside the world? mankind has no love at all. Would you rather wanna be good? or bad. And go ahead with your negativity. WOrds speak out for your actions and i got evidence. Just look around man. everything in the bible is true. their is a rock in a cave with blood stains scientists found and 3 crosses. Watch some history channels.Read the bible and come to understand your rights. And for the info i'm not amused by your verbal abuse.
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone I feel sorry for you if you think that way about other people. You either might have a chemical imbalance, or you haven't taken the time to look around yourself. Are you saying that your family doesn't love you? Your friends and neighbours? If they all don't love you, you may have to look inside, the problem could be you. I'm sorry, but you must be the negative one. My family and friends love me. I don't think that everyone in the world has no love. I'm happy with myself.
leo16mmiv 9 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone "Put up or shut up" is not a verbal abuse. It's how we understand our world. If you have no reason to believe what you believe, by all means go ahead and believe it, but when you want to convince others that it's true, give evidence or be ready to receive nothing. If what you say is true about the crosses and blood stains, it would be all over the mostly Christian-dominated media.
leo16mmiv 9 months ago
@leo16mmiv Yeah pretty much is verbal abuse. And I will just live my life and not care for what you have to say that is negative, You just be living your life like they want you to...
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way, but if you can't take a little criticism, I'm not sure what to tell you. If you think that asking you for evidence of what you're pushing up to other people is verbal abuse, shouldn't you not try to push that onto other people? The golden rule. Your asking us to believe without evidence, much worse than asking someone for evidence.
leo16mmiv 9 months ago
@leo16mmiv Look all I n' I have to say for people like you is to just leave the positive alone, For those who criticize one another and pressure hate on them will perish for the bad, and evil they do that hadn't asked to be forgiven. And don't believe it you will see, Scientists already proved and found evidence that Jesus exists and did everything it says in the bible, and the resurrection of christ. So that just tells me, all in the bible is true...
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone No offence but you have a really terrible prosecution complex if you think that I'm being "negative" and verbally abusive. Being verbally abusive would be calling you, and I quote, "a fucking pussy who can't handle the possibility of someone disagreeing with you", which isn't too far from the truth. Now you're just using an appeal to authority. "Scientists already proved and found evidence that Jesus exists and did everything it says in the bible"? Huh? Okay, which scientists?
leo16mmiv 9 months ago
@leo16mmiv You know, normally i'd be shit talking you. But as i learn more about my religion. i start to mellow out become, more mature. So you can rage all you want about this and that. And verbally abusive is talking about me, calling me a ''pussy'' is verbally. And I didn't here what scientist did. but they found a cloth with markings. which they claim could of been a message about afterlife and could of stated the resurrection of Christ.Basically i predicted that everything was true...
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@leo16mmiv So basically anything is possible, Their is the same amount of reasons to believe god, then to not.
XxXAllhopeisgone 9 months ago
@XxXAllhopeisgone You're avoiding my question. The only things that are possible are the things that are possible. There is not the same amount of reasons to believe in gods or goddesses than not, and even if there were, that would not be a good enough reason to believe in them or it. If you mean that there is the same amount of evidence either way, the onus is on the one making a positive claim not the negative claim. I don't need any evidence to not believe in faeries, Spider-man or Big foot.
leo16mmiv 9 months ago