The kotegaeshi isn't entirely wrong. It's not perfect... but it doesn't matter. The thing is, the uke is not really commiting to the attack... that's what's wrong. That's why the throw looks half hearted.
I see many people eager to criticize, but they should ask themselves first if they can do better.
Sloppy, uninterested, uninspired aikido, both by uke and tori. It looks as if they are just completely bored. To me that is more depressing than bad technique.
There is alot wrong with the technique, very shallow footwork so no power in the throw, if he doesn't go along willingly, he won't go at all. He leans over him, at the finish, the throw is off as it's pure arm, Kotegaeshi needs to throw from a base at the center, you lock the hand and most of the throw is with the hip twist. He doesn't apply the wrist lock to keep him from twisting out of it, god, I could go on all day.
It's wrong because he brought the blade past his own throat and face. Good knife and gun techniques don't cause you to bring the weapon to bear on yourself.
@LittleImpaler He is using only his arms to do it... Uke is following nage, but no way this could be effective with someone who is not follow the technique. in other words, the direction is OK.. but he is doing the shape with his arms, he must do the same shape with his hans in front of him, turning his body to do the shape. otherwise there's no power in the movement.
For starters, he doesn't turn enough, during the blending motion there should be a point where he is right next to the attacker, almost like a mirror image.
This mistake leads him to muscle through the technique, you can see him pull with his arms way off to the side of his own torso. That shouldn't happen.
The hands should stay at your body's center, while the HIPS turn, blending with and leading the attack like gears of a clock.
Like many martial arts styles that remain fixed in technique they are limiting themselves. What a world these practitioners of Aikido must live in where attackers conveniently and fully thrust with a piercing weapon. These techniques would work against a drunk or a child but not someone with a little sense of knife combat - try this on someone who has lived their life on the streets for years - and you will sadly be made aware of the failures of this archaic system.
People always make this mistake. Forget the opening move, it's all the moves after that are valuable. The joint manipulations and breaks in grappling range are invaluable. Get in a clinch, and that's what you want to use (and they work so well it's almost funny.) Of course you'll never see a 'gangbanger' use them because they lack any kind of discipline to learn a martial art. Sloppy punches are all they ever throw.
@moleman1961 yes it would be because that's the way I practice ..... without an absolutely AWESOME uke attacking you it ends with broken bones for the attackers. Luckily I have an AWESOME uke.
If you can't tell the difference between technique demonstration and fighting then please don't bother people with your negative bullshit
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
WingTsun is the "Original Mixed Martial art" you see almost ALL other known styles come from Shao-Lin and WingTsun was designed by a shao-lin priestess to DEFEAT all the shao-lin techniques,therefore WingTsun is the first true MMA and its over 300 years old. WingTsun has it all, breaks,locks,throws,striking,blocking,grappling/antigrappling defense,traps, it even has a CHI form. here endeth the lesson..check your history...youll see that i speak the truth
Wing Chun is extremely bound by tradition, and how is it being designed to defeat Shaolin Cuan, which I've never heard before, relevant to its proposed status as an MMA? How can a Martial Art be a Mixed Martial Art? MMA is the mixing of systems as every system by itself is incomplete, no matter how much synthesis comes into it. MMA is a concept not a style. It's a simple idea. But Bruce Lee made formlessness a form itself and that started the current world-view of martial arts.
I don't know what are u talking about. MMA is a fighting sport with RULES.
Go to ghetto, and will see how you use grapling, and punching against more than 3-4 opponent armed with knifes and clubs, or worse:guns.
If my life is in danger I poke out the attacer eyes , smash his testicals and throats, break his knee, Kill him with any way I can, to save my life. Are these allowed in sports???Or in MMA???
That's why as a martial artist you need to adapt to the environment. MMA in of itself is a kind of martial art that focuses on adaptation to ones environment. Bruce Lee created Jeet Kwon Do...which is actually the first MMA "Style"...that actually followed the principles of what I've just said.
Well, I agree with your point, except the part of JKD being the first MMA. Sambo is the Russian MMA, Hapkido is the Korean Hybrid self defense art which incorporates punches, kicks, joint locks, take downs, and grappling..... JKD is an art of "Anything that works" no doubt, but there were others before it. :D
Just because it incorporates kick and grappiling doesn't make it an MMA.I've learned both in my Tae Kwon Do school. Jeet Kwon Do is noted anyway as the first MMA because it literally incorporates the styles and principles of other martial arts.
1. I understand what an MMA is, Hapkido is a HYBRID martial art, it is a true mixed art because it holds all dynamics of judo throws, taekwondo kicks, including knee and elbow strikes and grappling. Jeet Kune Do is NOT, I repeat... NOT a martial art, it is a state of mind. It is more of "Let's put a name for the sake of its recognition". The day someone sees JKD as a MMA or a martial art in general, they have destroyed the entire concept of Jeet Kune Do. Sambo is a true MMA too, older than jkd..
First of all you must understand that Aikido is a self defense art .. NOT A RING SPORT .... An Aikido practicioner is always ready for an attack coming from any direction as well as many oponents.. You can not use AIKIDO for ring fights.. It is a defensive mechanism that gets triggered unconsciusly to defeat an attack within seconds possibly causing severe harm to even death to the attacker if desired. Again, it is not to be fighting back and forth with an oponent....
" It is a defensive mechanism that gets triggered unconsciusly to defeat an attack within seconds possibly causing severe harm to even death to the attacker if desired. "
It's VERY dangerous for the practitioner then... someone takes a swing at you, you unconsciously react ripping his ligaments, he sues you, you're broke. A martial art that cannot be used without causing death or irreversible damage isn't a civilized fight style. You might as well just go the chimp way and chomp faces.
Oh shure it did. And you got an aikidoka who wanted to compete in MMA? Shure you did. And comparing a sport vs an art just isnt really effective ;)
So on the same basis you can say MMA has proven other arts like Jiujitsu, Karate, Judo, etc. to be unrealistic against a serious opponent? You should get a bit more respect to the things you dont know or do.
Oh and... Elite Tokio police, trained in aikido wouldnt agree with you ;)
"So (...) you can say MMA has proven other arts (...) to be unrealistic (...)?"
Of course. That's the meaning of "mixed martial arts". It means you take what works from each martial art and drop the rest. Some martial arts such as Jiu-jitsu, boxing and muai thai will be in the core of the mix. Some others will have little to ad, such as karate and kung fu. Some will be completely laughed out, such as... I bet you guessed already.
the point is that it can be used pretty safely... specially if you go towards the grappling... you force the adversary into submission instead of shaking his brains with punches till it shuts down... aikido would be even worse than that, from what's been written here. Were it not fake, it still could only be used to kill and maim.
You can't claim effectiveness for an art in which you're unable to practice actual combat. How do you know the aikido moves work with a non compliant adversary if you never saw it happening? It's mere faith.
Actually, you have seen it happening. Yanagi Riuken, master of Daitoriyu Aikido. Torn apart by a MMA fighter.
Let's take Gozo Shioda for example. "In the ensuing fight, Shioda broke the leg of one of the gang members, the arm of another, and finished off another by punching him hard in the stomach, all using aikido techniques and principles. He later described this incident as his "aikido enlightenment", and stated that you could only truly appreciate what aikido was about once you had used it in a life-or-death situation such as this."
aikido comes from Jiujitsu and modified a bit, you can do alot.
Oh and that fake kiai master Yanagi... he's just terribad. I dont see ANY aikido/daitoryu jujitsu techniques, not even tai sabaki in his fight. He's just a fake "artists" who claims to be an expert in martial arts. And yes, he is stomped hard.
Try to compare him and hmmm Tissier and you'll see the difference in movement, skill and techniques. Until then,fyi no aikidoka ever had a MMA fight (as far as i know).
"I dont see ANY aikido/daitoryu jujitsu techniques, not even tai sabaki in his fight"
You don't see because when he is grabbed by the wrist, nothing he does can shake the grab... which is pretty realistic. He then is simply punched down to submission while being unable to grab the punching hand, which is also realistic. Ueshiba also had kiai techniques (seek Ueshiba archmage, him performing telekinesis).
Tanto Randori is the second best image of non compliant combat: v=ioh2x_edTmM.
And what? Kiai as Yanagi and most plebs think of it has nothing to do with Aikido.
Even what Ueshiba was doing in that archmage video probably had more to do with Kiai than what Yanagi was doing.
In fact I can imagine that if my Kiai had been forged by belting my students over the head with bokken and generally being fierce and bad tempered that my students would fall over if I waved my hands around. That IS a demo of Kiai and like kiai there's nothing mystical or fake about it.
Yes, in this sense, it's not fake. That's why I insist on the word "compliant". Because you saw what happened when you try waving your hands in front of a non compliant MMA fighter :-)
You're walking down a street and some guy is staring at you and you stare back, he looks away, that's kiai. Or a manifestation of kiai as is shouting, occasionally, but not always, in fact very rarely. You can yell all you want and have little or no kiai.
That said you can stand in a room quietly reading a book and scare the crap out of everyone with your kiai.
You can't attempt Kiai on someone, it's not possible. Doesn't matter how compliant they are you still cannot do kiai on them. In fact, stictly speaking, you cannot kiai, it's not a verb, it's a noun.
If kiai means "scream", then it can work as a noun (I heard a scream) or a verb (I heard him scream). But in fact Wikipedia tells us that:
"The proper use of kiaijutsu involves concentrating on the use of one's ki more than it does shouting. A sound is just an audible indication of good kiai (aligned body structure, focused intent, and good breathing). "
Kiai means focused (ai) spirit (ki). A "kiai master" masters the use of the ki to perform kamekamehans and other Dragon Ball stunts.
@Ketsan: What you are talking about is also a manifestation of Ki, but in the form of killing intent. Killing intent can be felt by other animals, and -if they have their guard up- by other humans as well.
You obviously dont know why those"ueshiba the archmage" guys are falling like that. Try to raise an arm in front of the face of a "runner" (uke in this case); he will fall OR take a smash on his face. Now choose wich option is more "viable".
And about "kiai dude". He's not doing neither Aikido or Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu (wich is not Daitoriyu Aikido as you said), he's in fact miles from being a master of any of those two arts. Kiai is a battlescream btw.
"You obviously dont know why those"ueshiba the archmage" guys are falling like that"
I obviously do know why the ukes are falling: Because they know they are supposed to. Who is running at 0:00? The guy is sitting, and being pushed by an invisible force. As for what a runner can do, obviously he can dodge and block the arm with his own.
I dont believe in the way of harmony of aikkido. But the techniques ARE practical. To one who bases his knowledge on movies and MMA you actually dont know anything at all.
I've been thrown and I've been put into locks. I KNOW how painful and terrifying aikido is.
But I do not believe it works without punching the attacker in the face first to make him numb. I would use aikido only after making sure the attacker does not struggle too much. THAT is my jibundou
I've always thought of it as a door, if someone who's huge grabs my wrist and I simply try to apply a wrist lock he'll likely pummel me into a fine paste on the ground while I'm struggling to move his arm. If however I open that door first, and it doesn't need to be "honorable", spit in his face, slap him, kick the inside of his knee, smack his ear...whatever, that split second is a distraction and opens the door so I can do my technique.
way to go.... i am sure that guy was wishing he nevermessed with you. All these people want to sit there and say that its pointless but really i see it more effective in the long run. you can always learn and adapt.
yeah. . . aikido is difficult to master. . . in the early stages of your training there is always doubt. . . but in the logn run its actually very effective. . .
U don't have to punch ur opponent in the face first In fact that could ruin ur technique. If u are opposing his force by striking him u are disrupting the flow making it harder 4 u to use his own energy against him. Everytime a combat athlete or a street fighter ducks, dodges, bobs - weaves, sides steps, back steps, forward steps with his opponent .. that's Aikido. (The way of harmony) If you choose to use a lock/punch/kick after ... it's your prerogative!
Energy of an opponent does not go one way that smoothly. If you try to throw someone there will be a way for them to stop your technique 90% of the time no matter how good you are at aikido. Atemi is a very important part for Aikido's techniques for it loosenes the opponent up.
Aikido as a way of harmony means not permanently damaging the opponent. Most of the times when you throw them, they'll break their arm if they dont cooperate. Thats hardly harmony.
Ueshiba Morihei (or Osensei, which I dont call him), said that the essence of Aikido was harmonizing with everything including your opponent. This meant you wanted to protect you as well as your opponent from injury.
how aikido works and what Aikido's essence is are often two different things.
I am really sorry but i have to tell you that 8 years of aikido has lead me to believe that the way is to protect yourself.... Duh. Self defence. I dont care about my opponate unles it is my Uke in practice. Aikido is meant to get you out of a fight not to protect everything. Harmonize with the energies... earth and ki (spirit or energy) Basic physics... Osensei was strict on the more safe approch.
I am an Aikido School of Ueshiba Student. We study what it means to be a budo before anything.
lordtains: if what you say were true, that ''how aikido works and what Aikido's essence is are often two different things'' then aikido isn't really a way of harmony when its essence differs with its practise.
Punching is only one option, the point being if I'm in a fight and I notice a technique I'm using being redirected I have the experience to be able to use that to my advantage, either by overextending the technique and dragging him off balance or simply breaking or shifting the focus of my flow. The punch is a setup, it draws attention from what you want to manipulate elsewhere...spitting in their face, throwing salt in their eyes, driving a knee into the side of their knee...the result is same
i'm a little surprised at your comment, becuase you know the techniques what you forget that technique is 90% atemi (strike to vital are = punch kick etc) and im not saying that ueshiba used to say that and in some old black and white videos you can see him crearly marking (thats to say just throwing a licht punch) before some of his techniques
Aikido is actully more effective for real fighting than that mma crap,as they pin you with there knee and keep fighting,while mma guys look straight down at the opponent.
anyone who ever really fought for life and death or miltary training knows that mma stuff is useless.Aikido pinning was taken from samurai times.real battlefields.not rings.
to be on your bac in a fight means your dead.this is real life and not ring fighting.
"Aikido is actully more effective for real fighting than that mma crap,as they pin you with there knee and keep fighting (...) anyone who ever really fought for life and death or miltary training knows that mma stuff is useless."
You don't "fight" on Aikido, you "apply techniques". Nobody really knows how well they work because nobody has ever really used it. It's all coreography and speculation. MMA is as close from the real deal as you can get without maiming the opponent.
"so... elite squad of Tokio Police must suck then, becuase they are trained in aikido..."
I bet they suck when compared to an elite squad in a place where you *actually* need an elite squad, such as... Brazil :-) I'm not saying *all* of Aikido is useless in *any* circumstances. Small joint locks are effective when you're trying to subdue someone who is *not* going to take a swing back at you, such as when the police is trying to cuff a prisoner.
I believe everything should be doubted. But doubt and dissmissing are two different things.
You obviously do not doubt that MMA is great. I have tons of reasons not to like MMA, but I dont question its usability. I've talked with a few martial artists of the "hard way" and I dont think its fake. I've also trained in the "soft way" and I just know it works because I've felt the power.
In a pragmatists universe, there are no absolutes. There are no facts, only provisional hypotheses which for the moment there is no certainty. I am certain....this is horrible technique...might get you kill IRL. Must be USAF.
sweetsweatyfeet, maybe this isn't the best Aikido demo, and certainly it may look as if choriographed, buy only one thing is obvious: YOU have never trained Aikido. Trrain some then come back..
"It still worked"?? The puppet uke completely cooperated with him in his lame, sloppy attack, as if anyone in real life would attack like that. Aikido demos are as choreographed as professional wrestling. It is obvious to those who see.
its quite diferent from punching or grabbing technices, but the circles in aikido may be a lesson in so many ways. train some, live some; aikido its more than these vids.
Sorry i've been doing aikido for 5 yrs and i can appreciate that he isn't doing a great kote gaeshi, but it still worked. I think to critise him like this is a bit immature. Afterall different styles do their techniques differently and you could learn new things by keeping an open mind. No one way is right.
Okay wait, lemme see what I can see what's wrong with it. 1: Poor Tencan, barely moving around the uke. 2: Not taking balance - The technique is therefore not real and not effective. 3: Limited range of motion - debatable but he's using his center to lead the uke. 4: Had to bend over, from not taking balance - but more importantly he loses his own center in doing so.
I still think it's fuckin' disgusting that someone would post a video about someone's bad technique - pretty shameful IMO.
If you're good, then cool, but rather than show a vid of a supposedly poor technique, rather make a vid about how to do it properly, and in there mention things to avoid. I mean, come one, get off your god-damn high horse.
"If you're good, then cool, but rather than show a vid of a supposedly poor technique, rather make a vid about how to do it properly, and in there mention things to avoid."
Why would he just mention? He is *showing* the things to avoid.
This looks like it's in a demonstration recorded by a crowd member, not really someone going out of their way to actually demonstrate how not to do this.
Also, the first rule of teaching: Never show the wrong way to do something.
I completely disagree, I find is alright to show a fault and then show the correct way of doing it, but not to show up a senior's work and simply leave it at that. From this video, you learn nothing because there is no content, they may as well shown us some mud because you would learn just as little. I still feel it would be a much better idea to make a video showing proper technique, and in there mention possible things to avoid.
He is doing it right he steps away from the weapon and grabs the hand wich one is holding the weapon. Always step from it to outside..i dont know how to tell it.. Do not step left when hes attacking with left because he can make that turn easy if u step right the attacker has to turn around before he can make another attack.
u can do a full irimi tenkan turn, thats not the problem. problem was he wasnt doing gedan barai in the beginning, so before u do the tenkan youre already cut
These type of attacks are outdated, I have been attacked by knives a few times and there is no prediction on how to deal with it. ALthough the mor training you have I started in Aikido and found the best knife fighting defense is from Paul Vunak.
i was corrected for this by my sensei the other day,
instead of doing the big circle with the knife, on the wrist turn your supposed to apply it whilst pushing the knife point towards your opponant, to make them jolt back then apply the short form, just push the hand back on and slightly over the wrist, not the big circle, because you want to keep the knife safe and away from you.
Yeah standard156, that is the right way to do it. I don't know what you think he should be doing but that is one of the correct variations of kotegaeshi for tanto(wooden knife) attacks.
"How not to do it" Simply because he gives the knife back to his attacker after disarming him the first time?
7echnoid 3 weeks ago
Excellent example of how to counter-attack a slow drunk with a knife ; P
SylentKnightz 2 months ago
The loud music is necessary? Lol xD
ProEdit7x 9 months ago
por favor!!!! en la vida real nadie te ataca directamente nunca saves a donde va el cuchillo
alexmexqt 11 months ago
The kotegaeshi isn't entirely wrong. It's not perfect... but it doesn't matter. The thing is, the uke is not really commiting to the attack... that's what's wrong. That's why the throw looks half hearted.
I see many people eager to criticize, but they should ask themselves first if they can do better.
s9poncho 1 year ago 7
Ez a hogyan NE csináljuk?
TheAlmA007 1 year ago
Technique is really lousy. You better improve for Aikikai's sake
tontontuason 1 year ago
Sloppy, uninterested, uninspired aikido, both by uke and tori. It looks as if they are just completely bored. To me that is more depressing than bad technique.
aikistok 1 year ago 4
There is alot wrong with the technique, very shallow footwork so no power in the throw, if he doesn't go along willingly, he won't go at all. He leans over him, at the finish, the throw is off as it's pure arm, Kotegaeshi needs to throw from a base at the center, you lock the hand and most of the throw is with the hip twist. He doesn't apply the wrist lock to keep him from twisting out of it, god, I could go on all day.
Aimjiel 1 year ago
Nage leaned over too much. Bend at the knees, not at the waist.
Spartacus217 1 year ago
The only way Aikido works is if you are not really attacked.
Flavioxeneize 1 year ago
@Flavioxeneize
TheMimeGogo 1 year ago
wasted 37 secs of my time...
laser20pack 1 year ago
not do what?? wtf?
STILLNAKEDBULLWINKLE 1 year ago
It's wrong because he brought the blade past his own throat and face. Good knife and gun techniques don't cause you to bring the weapon to bear on yourself.
mroboto2000 1 year ago
There was no sutemi... the uki just fell for effect. the throw was missing. Tori made a basic wrist lock look like a throw.
180autorotation 1 year ago
I thin it has more to do with the ukemi, the manner of taking the fall.
Pinckney12 2 years ago
maybe it would have been better if you had an explantion WHY this was not the way to do it.
Mathewmartialart 2 years ago 70
@Mathewmartialart yeah, I just watched this. I was like "huh?" Aikido done in the video was right.
LittleImpaler 1 year ago
@LittleImpaler He is using only his arms to do it... Uke is following nage, but no way this could be effective with someone who is not follow the technique. in other words, the direction is OK.. but he is doing the shape with his arms, he must do the same shape with his hans in front of him, turning his body to do the shape. otherwise there's no power in the movement.
miloedo 1 year ago
@Mathewmartialart
For starters, he doesn't turn enough, during the blending motion there should be a point where he is right next to the attacker, almost like a mirror image.
This mistake leads him to muscle through the technique, you can see him pull with his arms way off to the side of his own torso. That shouldn't happen.
The hands should stay at your body's center, while the HIPS turn, blending with and leading the attack like gears of a clock.
pimpdalyrical 1 year ago
@Mathewmartialart maybe cause he handed the knife back? XD
garter10895 1 year ago 3
why is it that all the world´s best fighters with the most real-life experience seem to comment on youtube comment boards?
Oh wait....
papasitoman 2 years ago 3
@papasitoman
ahahahaha!
Ghostdog162 1 year ago
Like many martial arts styles that remain fixed in technique they are limiting themselves. What a world these practitioners of Aikido must live in where attackers conveniently and fully thrust with a piercing weapon. These techniques would work against a drunk or a child but not someone with a little sense of knife combat - try this on someone who has lived their life on the streets for years - and you will sadly be made aware of the failures of this archaic system.
Chad01234 2 years ago
looks fine to me wats worng?
kungfudragon99 2 years ago 4
everything... just... everything!
look at other videos with this kata
FinalKenny2 2 years ago
Contrived pre planned straight thrusts that a 12 year old gangbanger would pass out laughing at if he saw.
Chad01234 2 years ago
People always make this mistake. Forget the opening move, it's all the moves after that are valuable. The joint manipulations and breaks in grappling range are invaluable. Get in a clinch, and that's what you want to use (and they work so well it's almost funny.) Of course you'll never see a 'gangbanger' use them because they lack any kind of discipline to learn a martial art. Sloppy punches are all they ever throw.
Deilgyre 2 years ago 2
You are right! I would like to see the defence against a non-pre-arranged attack! The end would be a lot different I`ll wager!
moleman1961 2 years ago
@moleman1961 yes it would be because that's the way I practice ..... without an absolutely AWESOME uke attacking you it ends with broken bones for the attackers. Luckily I have an AWESOME uke.
If you can't tell the difference between technique demonstration and fighting then please don't bother people with your negative bullshit
aikifan77 1 year ago
Ok. your right.
moleman1961 1 year ago
at least they train in some way against weapons...when was the last time you addressed weapons in your training? I didn't think so
MikeUntstinks 2 years ago
@Chad01234 How many 12-year-old gangbangers do you know?
Spartacus217 1 year ago
I don't get it....
what is it that "one is not how to do it"?
tranceduo 2 years ago
Mwai... Faut plus qu'il le prolonge en tournant lol, je sais il y a pas beaucoup de place ^^
guiguiator 2 years ago
music is awfully familiar but I cant put my finger on it exactly. please anyone recognizes it please reply
deVall3y 2 years ago
It's called Battle Without Honour Or Humanity, by Tomoyasu Hotei, and it's famously featured on the Kill Bill soundtrack.
gillesibub 2 years ago
Don't know about you, but sounds similar to "Missing in Action"
TheRob8500 2 years ago
its from kill bill
deVall3y 2 years ago
yes this demeans aikido like they are desperate to pull in ppl who dont want it and dont appreciate it.
tonyschmoeredux 2 years ago
A music that high, such a low respect environment, the children is not paying attention!!!
You can use aikido for self defense, but this is not environment for a demnostration.
Silence, and Respect for AIKIDO praticioners! In this case or just wake up and go home!
djdsfhakdfhlksdhklf 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
WingTsun is the "Original Mixed Martial art" you see almost ALL other known styles come from Shao-Lin and WingTsun was designed by a shao-lin priestess to DEFEAT all the shao-lin techniques,therefore WingTsun is the first true MMA and its over 300 years old. WingTsun has it all, breaks,locks,throws,striking,blocking,grappling/antigrappling defense,traps, it even has a CHI form. here endeth the lesson..check your history...youll see that i speak the truth
mrwright82468 2 years ago
Wing Chun is extremely bound by tradition, and how is it being designed to defeat Shaolin Cuan, which I've never heard before, relevant to its proposed status as an MMA? How can a Martial Art be a Mixed Martial Art? MMA is the mixing of systems as every system by itself is incomplete, no matter how much synthesis comes into it. MMA is a concept not a style. It's a simple idea. But Bruce Lee made formlessness a form itself and that started the current world-view of martial arts.
odin2358 2 years ago 14
This comment has received too many negative votes show
lmao at dumbass aikido...useless
Wdd4lif3 2 years ago
Hmm MMA, punching the face?
I don't know what are u talking about. MMA is a fighting sport with RULES.
Go to ghetto, and will see how you use grapling, and punching against more than 3-4 opponent armed with knifes and clubs, or worse:guns.
If my life is in danger I poke out the attacer eyes , smash his testicals and throats, break his knee, Kill him with any way I can, to save my life. Are these allowed in sports???Or in MMA???
Attilahollo9 2 years ago
agree
ngeks 2 years ago
That's why as a martial artist you need to adapt to the environment. MMA in of itself is a kind of martial art that focuses on adaptation to ones environment. Bruce Lee created Jeet Kwon Do...which is actually the first MMA "Style"...that actually followed the principles of what I've just said.
m2frogger 2 years ago
Well, I agree with your point, except the part of JKD being the first MMA. Sambo is the Russian MMA, Hapkido is the Korean Hybrid self defense art which incorporates punches, kicks, joint locks, take downs, and grappling..... JKD is an art of "Anything that works" no doubt, but there were others before it. :D
deguimeraUSA 2 years ago
Just because it incorporates kick and grappiling doesn't make it an MMA.I've learned both in my Tae Kwon Do school. Jeet Kwon Do is noted anyway as the first MMA because it literally incorporates the styles and principles of other martial arts.
m2frogger 2 years ago
1. I understand what an MMA is, Hapkido is a HYBRID martial art, it is a true mixed art because it holds all dynamics of judo throws, taekwondo kicks, including knee and elbow strikes and grappling. Jeet Kune Do is NOT, I repeat... NOT a martial art, it is a state of mind. It is more of "Let's put a name for the sake of its recognition". The day someone sees JKD as a MMA or a martial art in general, they have destroyed the entire concept of Jeet Kune Do. Sambo is a true MMA too, older than jkd..
deguimeraUSA 2 years ago
krav maga predates jkd
mytimetravellingdog 2 years ago
Thats not how you fight with a knife at all, this is just poser shit.
Coachramsies 2 years ago
First of all you must understand that Aikido is a self defense art .. NOT A RING SPORT .... An Aikido practicioner is always ready for an attack coming from any direction as well as many oponents.. You can not use AIKIDO for ring fights.. It is a defensive mechanism that gets triggered unconsciusly to defeat an attack within seconds possibly causing severe harm to even death to the attacker if desired. Again, it is not to be fighting back and forth with an oponent....
joseignacio0104 2 years ago
" It is a defensive mechanism that gets triggered unconsciusly to defeat an attack within seconds possibly causing severe harm to even death to the attacker if desired. "
It's VERY dangerous for the practitioner then... someone takes a swing at you, you unconsciously react ripping his ligaments, he sues you, you're broke. A martial art that cannot be used without causing death or irreversible damage isn't a civilized fight style. You might as well just go the chimp way and chomp faces.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
Put to the test MMA has already proven Aikido to be unrealistic against a serious opponent.
Professor Huss,
AnthonyHuss 2 years ago
Oh shure it did. And you got an aikidoka who wanted to compete in MMA? Shure you did. And comparing a sport vs an art just isnt really effective ;)
So on the same basis you can say MMA has proven other arts like Jiujitsu, Karate, Judo, etc. to be unrealistic against a serious opponent? You should get a bit more respect to the things you dont know or do.
Oh and... Elite Tokio police, trained in aikido wouldnt agree with you ;)
Morgothhhh 2 years ago
"So (...) you can say MMA has proven other arts (...) to be unrealistic (...)?"
Of course. That's the meaning of "mixed martial arts". It means you take what works from each martial art and drop the rest. Some martial arts such as Jiu-jitsu, boxing and muai thai will be in the core of the mix. Some others will have little to ad, such as karate and kung fu. Some will be completely laughed out, such as... I bet you guessed already.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
And how often does MMA cause a serious injury?
ketsan 2 years ago
"And how often does MMA cause a serious injury?"
the point is that it can be used pretty safely... specially if you go towards the grappling... you force the adversary into submission instead of shaking his brains with punches till it shuts down... aikido would be even worse than that, from what's been written here. Were it not fake, it still could only be used to kill and maim.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
You can't claim effectiveness for an art that doesn't regularly cause serious injury in training. Just my opinion.
ketsan 2 years ago
You can't claim effectiveness for an art in which you're unable to practice actual combat. How do you know the aikido moves work with a non compliant adversary if you never saw it happening? It's mere faith.
Actually, you have seen it happening. Yanagi Riuken, master of Daitoriyu Aikido. Torn apart by a MMA fighter.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
Let's take Gozo Shioda for example. "In the ensuing fight, Shioda broke the leg of one of the gang members, the arm of another, and finished off another by punching him hard in the stomach, all using aikido techniques and principles. He later described this incident as his "aikido enlightenment", and stated that you could only truly appreciate what aikido was about once you had used it in a life-or-death situation such as this."
aikido comes from Jiujitsu and modified a bit, you can do alot.
Morgothhhh 2 years ago
Oh and that fake kiai master Yanagi... he's just terribad. I dont see ANY aikido/daitoryu jujitsu techniques, not even tai sabaki in his fight. He's just a fake "artists" who claims to be an expert in martial arts. And yes, he is stomped hard.
Try to compare him and hmmm Tissier and you'll see the difference in movement, skill and techniques. Until then,fyi no aikidoka ever had a MMA fight (as far as i know).
Morgothhhh 2 years ago
"I dont see ANY aikido/daitoryu jujitsu techniques, not even tai sabaki in his fight"
You don't see because when he is grabbed by the wrist, nothing he does can shake the grab... which is pretty realistic. He then is simply punched down to submission while being unable to grab the punching hand, which is also realistic. Ueshiba also had kiai techniques (seek Ueshiba archmage, him performing telekinesis).
Tanto Randori is the second best image of non compliant combat: v=ioh2x_edTmM.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
You don't actually know what Kiai is do you? And neither does Yanagi actually. The Daito Ryu guys do though.
ketsan 2 years ago
Yes, they do. Kiai is something you attempt only at compliant partners unless you're in for a seriou whooping in the ass, like Yanagi was.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
LMFAO. Thanks for proving my point.
ketsan 2 years ago
The funniest thing is that if you google "Kiai Master", all articles are about Yanagi Ryuken :-) For instance:
Beating a Kiai Master About the Head and Neck With the Foot of Reality. RMLAGHBAM!
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
And what? Kiai as Yanagi and most plebs think of it has nothing to do with Aikido.
Even what Ueshiba was doing in that archmage video probably had more to do with Kiai than what Yanagi was doing.
In fact I can imagine that if my Kiai had been forged by belting my students over the head with bokken and generally being fierce and bad tempered that my students would fall over if I waved my hands around. That IS a demo of Kiai and like kiai there's nothing mystical or fake about it.
ketsan 2 years ago
Yes, in this sense, it's not fake. That's why I insist on the word "compliant". Because you saw what happened when you try waving your hands in front of a non compliant MMA fighter :-)
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
You're walking down a street and some guy is staring at you and you stare back, he looks away, that's kiai. Or a manifestation of kiai as is shouting, occasionally, but not always, in fact very rarely. You can yell all you want and have little or no kiai.
That said you can stand in a room quietly reading a book and scare the crap out of everyone with your kiai.
ketsan 2 years ago
You can't attempt Kiai on someone, it's not possible. Doesn't matter how compliant they are you still cannot do kiai on them. In fact, stictly speaking, you cannot kiai, it's not a verb, it's a noun.
ketsan 2 years ago
If kiai means "scream", then it can work as a noun (I heard a scream) or a verb (I heard him scream). But in fact Wikipedia tells us that:
"The proper use of kiaijutsu involves concentrating on the use of one's ki more than it does shouting. A sound is just an audible indication of good kiai (aligned body structure, focused intent, and good breathing). "
Kiai means focused (ai) spirit (ki). A "kiai master" masters the use of the ki to perform kamekamehans and other Dragon Ball stunts.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
lol what did kamehameha had to do with it?
@Ketsan: What you are talking about is also a manifestation of Ki, but in the form of killing intent. Killing intent can be felt by other animals, and -if they have their guard up- by other humans as well.
lordtains 2 years ago
You obviously dont know why those"ueshiba the archmage" guys are falling like that. Try to raise an arm in front of the face of a "runner" (uke in this case); he will fall OR take a smash on his face. Now choose wich option is more "viable".
And about "kiai dude". He's not doing neither Aikido or Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu (wich is not Daitoriyu Aikido as you said), he's in fact miles from being a master of any of those two arts. Kiai is a battlescream btw.
Morgothhhh 2 years ago
"You obviously dont know why those"ueshiba the archmage" guys are falling like that"
I obviously do know why the ukes are falling: Because they know they are supposed to. Who is running at 0:00? The guy is sitting, and being pushed by an invisible force. As for what a runner can do, obviously he can dodge and block the arm with his own.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
I've used it, so I know it works. There's no such thing as Daito Ryu Aikido.
ketsan 2 years ago
It has been used in combat. Just not against MMA people. Gozo Shioda was famous for picking fights with yakuza gangs..
Picking fights is forbidden in aikido law though.
And why the hell would the uke stuggle? They'd just break their arm...
lordtains 2 years ago
I dont believe in the way of harmony of aikkido. But the techniques ARE practical. To one who bases his knowledge on movies and MMA you actually dont know anything at all.
I've been thrown and I've been put into locks. I KNOW how painful and terrifying aikido is.
But I do not believe it works without punching the attacker in the face first to make him numb. I would use aikido only after making sure the attacker does not struggle too much. THAT is my jibundou
lordtains 2 years ago
I've always thought of it as a door, if someone who's huge grabs my wrist and I simply try to apply a wrist lock he'll likely pummel me into a fine paste on the ground while I'm struggling to move his arm. If however I open that door first, and it doesn't need to be "honorable", spit in his face, slap him, kick the inside of his knee, smack his ear...whatever, that split second is a distraction and opens the door so I can do my technique.
ZarathustrasCrown 2 years ago 2
I AGREE . . . im an aikidoka here in the philippines. . . some guy tried to mug me. . . and whapack!!! he got what he deserved. . .
ngeks 2 years ago
way to go.... i am sure that guy was wishing he nevermessed with you. All these people want to sit there and say that its pointless but really i see it more effective in the long run. you can always learn and adapt.
kudomahime 2 years ago
yeah. . . aikido is difficult to master. . . in the early stages of your training there is always doubt. . . but in the logn run its actually very effective. . .
ngeks 2 years ago
U don't have to punch ur opponent in the face first In fact that could ruin ur technique. If u are opposing his force by striking him u are disrupting the flow making it harder 4 u to use his own energy against him. Everytime a combat athlete or a street fighter ducks, dodges, bobs - weaves, sides steps, back steps, forward steps with his opponent .. that's Aikido. (The way of harmony) If you choose to use a lock/punch/kick after ... it's your prerogative!
cerebralnation 2 years ago
Energy of an opponent does not go one way that smoothly. If you try to throw someone there will be a way for them to stop your technique 90% of the time no matter how good you are at aikido. Atemi is a very important part for Aikido's techniques for it loosenes the opponent up.
Aikido as a way of harmony means not permanently damaging the opponent. Most of the times when you throw them, they'll break their arm if they dont cooperate. Thats hardly harmony.
lordtains 2 years ago
lordtains : he harmony of aikido is harmonising with the opponent's ki. a subsidiary of this is that you can choose not to damage him.
786hanif 2 years ago 2
No
Ueshiba Morihei (or Osensei, which I dont call him), said that the essence of Aikido was harmonizing with everything including your opponent. This meant you wanted to protect you as well as your opponent from injury.
how aikido works and what Aikido's essence is are often two different things.
lordtains 2 years ago
I am really sorry but i have to tell you that 8 years of aikido has lead me to believe that the way is to protect yourself.... Duh. Self defence. I dont care about my opponate unles it is my Uke in practice. Aikido is meant to get you out of a fight not to protect everything. Harmonize with the energies... earth and ki (spirit or energy) Basic physics... Osensei was strict on the more safe approch.
I am an Aikido School of Ueshiba Student. We study what it means to be a budo before anything.
kudomahime 2 years ago
lordtains: if what you say were true, that ''how aikido works and what Aikido's essence is are often two different things'' then aikido isn't really a way of harmony when its essence differs with its practise.
786hanif 2 years ago
then you dont know aikido.
emdog2564 2 years ago
Punching is only one option, the point being if I'm in a fight and I notice a technique I'm using being redirected I have the experience to be able to use that to my advantage, either by overextending the technique and dragging him off balance or simply breaking or shifting the focus of my flow. The punch is a setup, it draws attention from what you want to manipulate elsewhere...spitting in their face, throwing salt in their eyes, driving a knee into the side of their knee...the result is same
ZarathustrasCrown 2 years ago
i'm a little surprised at your comment, becuase you know the techniques what you forget that technique is 90% atemi (strike to vital are = punch kick etc) and im not saying that ueshiba used to say that and in some old black and white videos you can see him crearly marking (thats to say just throwing a licht punch) before some of his techniques
defranrahl 2 years ago
Haha that was a lame attack, not really a chudan tsuki, I would say gedan sloppy ^^
TimJackieChan 2 years ago
Yeah, pretty sloppy all right. But isn't that Kevin Choate? There are better videos of him on YT. He looks a bit better in v=Pykk_Dt_JLk.
TinselKoala 2 years ago
anyways all the throws of Aikido,Karate,Judo etc.. are all the same,jus different ways of doing them.
the original grappling was china's chin na which all of those above are desendent from.
gojuakuma 2 years ago
Aikido is actully more effective for real fighting than that mma crap,as they pin you with there knee and keep fighting,while mma guys look straight down at the opponent.
anyone who ever really fought for life and death or miltary training knows that mma stuff is useless.Aikido pinning was taken from samurai times.real battlefields.not rings.
to be on your bac in a fight means your dead.this is real life and not ring fighting.
gojuakuma 2 years ago 4
"Aikido is actully more effective for real fighting than that mma crap,as they pin you with there knee and keep fighting (...) anyone who ever really fought for life and death or miltary training knows that mma stuff is useless."
You don't "fight" on Aikido, you "apply techniques". Nobody really knows how well they work because nobody has ever really used it. It's all coreography and speculation. MMA is as close from the real deal as you can get without maiming the opponent.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
ur an idiot
rickysteinberg 2 years ago
so... elite squad of Tokio Police must suck then, becuase they are trained in aikido...
lmao nice one ;)
Morgothhhh 2 years ago
"so... elite squad of Tokio Police must suck then, becuase they are trained in aikido..."
I bet they suck when compared to an elite squad in a place where you *actually* need an elite squad, such as... Brazil :-) I'm not saying *all* of Aikido is useless in *any* circumstances. Small joint locks are effective when you're trying to subdue someone who is *not* going to take a swing back at you, such as when the police is trying to cuff a prisoner.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
Aikido never been used?
Are you even listening to yourself?
Do you think there is ANY martial art in this world that hassnt been tested at least once?
lordtains 2 years ago
Most people want to believe. Very few are concerned with doubt.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
I believe everything should be doubted. But doubt and dissmissing are two different things.
You obviously do not doubt that MMA is great. I have tons of reasons not to like MMA, but I dont question its usability. I've talked with a few martial artists of the "hard way" and I dont think its fake. I've also trained in the "soft way" and I just know it works because I've felt the power.
osu
lordtains 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
lol bunch of no lifes throwing eachother gracefully on the floor.
lol this sport looks all wimpy for peeps who wanna fight but are shy
adzprosser 3 years ago
hahaah, its not about fighting you fuckin moron, and theres a reason they roll like that. a sport? man your fukin dumb.
eleventhNMain 2 years ago
In a pragmatists universe, there are no absolutes. There are no facts, only provisional hypotheses which for the moment there is no certainty. I am certain....this is horrible technique...might get you kill IRL. Must be USAF.
nikkyo34 3 years ago
sweetsweatyfeet, maybe this isn't the best Aikido demo, and certainly it may look as if choriographed, buy only one thing is obvious: YOU have never trained Aikido. Trrain some then come back..
gowdaflow 3 years ago
"It still worked"?? The puppet uke completely cooperated with him in his lame, sloppy attack, as if anyone in real life would attack like that. Aikido demos are as choreographed as professional wrestling. It is obvious to those who see.
sweetsweatyfeet 3 years ago
indeed...it is choreographed..but still im learning it because its great. you shold try it and aftre you ll know what i mean
shinigamichris 3 years ago
its quite diferent from punching or grabbing technices, but the circles in aikido may be a lesson in so many ways. train some, live some; aikido its more than these vids.
isvorsesdansa 3 years ago
Sorry i've been doing aikido for 5 yrs and i can appreciate that he isn't doing a great kote gaeshi, but it still worked. I think to critise him like this is a bit immature. Afterall different styles do their techniques differently and you could learn new things by keeping an open mind. No one way is right.
indy4ever 3 years ago 4
Okay wait, lemme see what I can see what's wrong with it. 1: Poor Tencan, barely moving around the uke. 2: Not taking balance - The technique is therefore not real and not effective. 3: Limited range of motion - debatable but he's using his center to lead the uke. 4: Had to bend over, from not taking balance - but more importantly he loses his own center in doing so.
Do I win?
ChadMaestro 3 years ago
I think thats about it...
shiverinboy 3 years ago
I still think it's fuckin' disgusting that someone would post a video about someone's bad technique - pretty shameful IMO.
If you're good, then cool, but rather than show a vid of a supposedly poor technique, rather make a vid about how to do it properly, and in there mention things to avoid. I mean, come one, get off your god-damn high horse.
ChadMaestro 3 years ago 9
"If you're good, then cool, but rather than show a vid of a supposedly poor technique, rather make a vid about how to do it properly, and in there mention things to avoid."
Why would he just mention? He is *showing* the things to avoid.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
This looks like it's in a demonstration recorded by a crowd member, not really someone going out of their way to actually demonstrate how not to do this.
Also, the first rule of teaching: Never show the wrong way to do something.
ChadMaestro 2 years ago
"a demonstration recorded by a crowd member, not really someone going out of their way to actually demonstrate how not to do this."
so it's much better. it's an actual display of bad technique, not a simulated one.
"Also, the first rule of teaching: Never show the wrong way to do something."
that's the first rule of bad teaching. the second rule of good teaching is to show bad teachers in action.
Eikinkloster 2 years ago
I completely disagree, I find is alright to show a fault and then show the correct way of doing it, but not to show up a senior's work and simply leave it at that. From this video, you learn nothing because there is no content, they may as well shown us some mud because you would learn just as little. I still feel it would be a much better idea to make a video showing proper technique, and in there mention possible things to avoid.
ChadMaestro 2 years ago
Yeah well I just saw this video twice and I didn't get jack shit.
Sener 2 years ago
The tenkan was half-assed, the pin sucked, and he bent forward to do the throw, instead dipping at the knees.
pimpdalyrical 3 years ago
He is doing it right he steps away from the weapon and grabs the hand wich one is holding the weapon. Always step from it to outside..i dont know how to tell it.. Do not step left when hes attacking with left because he can make that turn easy if u step right the attacker has to turn around before he can make another attack.
noxxy28 3 years ago
never move in the same direction as the attacker while he´s holding a weapon !
aikidoka20 3 years ago
u can do a full irimi tenkan turn, thats not the problem. problem was he wasnt doing gedan barai in the beginning, so before u do the tenkan youre already cut
youdanieltube 3 years ago
How is that NOT that way??LOl
DEATHxValor 3 years ago
These type of attacks are outdated, I have been attacked by knives a few times and there is no prediction on how to deal with it. ALthough the mor training you have I started in Aikido and found the best knife fighting defense is from Paul Vunak.
RicksonGracie1 3 years ago
yah its hard. getting attacked by a knife you can't really judge anything.
MrPinoy91 3 years ago
Vunak is a fucking beast
jiujitsuboy 3 years ago
i was corrected for this by my sensei the other day,
instead of doing the big circle with the knife, on the wrist turn your supposed to apply it whilst pushing the knife point towards your opponant, to make them jolt back then apply the short form, just push the hand back on and slightly over the wrist, not the big circle, because you want to keep the knife safe and away from you.
BarakzaiKings 3 years ago
Yeah standard156, that is the right way to do it. I don't know what you think he should be doing but that is one of the correct variations of kotegaeshi for tanto(wooden knife) attacks.
devious999999 3 years ago
i was bloody hell laughing when i say this yelling
wtf!
he doesn't do the lock or takes him down all he does it slighty turns the guy to his stomach and then take the wooden Knife(forgot the name)
i think he was like rushing or something because if he was really doing this he would be killed
standard156 3 years ago