Howard Dean Interview - Bipartisan Healthcare Summit

[zknix20]

howard dean is awesome.

[deveousdevil]

Dean/Kuccinich (or Sanders) 2012

fuck Obama! lying wuss.

[boiiinng]

Finally a reasonable person speaking about how pointless this whole thing is if people still have to wait another 3 years before they can do anything. Who knows if we'll even have an economy then? Dean is smart but he needs to push his voice out harder than he does. Dangit if it wasn't for that stupid scream he would be in his second term as President. AGH!!!

[Rosannasfriend]

thanks for this interview, Cenk! I enjoyed it!

[CAMARA99]

DR. DEAN!!!

[gozimus]

America seems to have a severe phobia of change -- even if that change is meant to benefit us. Pretty sad. No progress, just fear of moving forward into uncharted territory. Everyone else in the world has cheap or free health care, but not us. Remarkable.

[deveousdevil]

@gozimus

american's, sadly, are stupid, at least a great deal of them (40% don't believe evolution), and ppl like Rupert Murdoch and Glenn Beck work their asses off to make sure they stay stupid, for jesus forbid their profits go a little below 30000000000% more of what the average person makes, cant have that......bollocks.

[gozimus]

fuck you deveousdevil. Can't you European dicks go one second without calling us Americans stupid? If you're so superior at least think of something original.

[deveousdevil]

LOL! i'm not european, no, i was born, lived, and continue to live in the USA, my home, believe me it gives me no pleasure to say what i did ( i said 'bollocks' for fun btw), but if you have a child who is slow (ie: 40% of americans), the first step to helping the child is to recognize there's a problem and that doesn't make you a bad parent (or in this case a patriot). theres no shame in admitting you have problems, there is for s/o who is in denial....

[deveousdevil]

PS> europeans probably annoy me more than they do you, especially now with their war on free speech and humanity (.....Geert Wilders trial, shariah courts etc etc)

[roscoe85cj]

haha .. what a crock of shit this is .. an asshole interviewing a clueless moron

how desperate are the Dims to keep their lunatic base together ~!  Bwaa ha aa ha haaa

[Ex0dus111]

look everyone a comment from lala land.

A land where capitalism works and smaller goverment somwhow benefits the people.

Unlike reality.

[yuyudude112]

whats with the freakin bono intro?

[starpad2]

Theory Behind the mandate: a mandate would force younger, healthier people to buy health insurance as they would use it less frequently than those who already have it and who tend to be of an older age, which would consequentially lower premiums.

[BusinessIDBAI]

Should we riot? I really wanna riot, just once in my life time. I wanna throw a molitov cocktail at a street lamp/statue, yeah definitely a statue (not hurt anyone) and flip a car. That would be bad ass.

So, where's the next riot being held? I think we should do it in Wyoming, does anyone even remember they're a state?

[aaronsande]

Hmm, it's almost like LIEberman didn't WANT the bill to make the Dems look good by immediately insuring more with the Medicare buy-in. It's almost like he wanted Dems to fail.

But that couldn't be, could it? Surely not! ;P

[upplsuckimcool16]

WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!!

Cenk you asked Dean if he is still saying no even though the public option is not in the bill and dean replies "No I'm not saying no to it because frankly I'm tired of being pushed around by the far right"

Ok well by saying you won't go against this bill is giving into the pushes... I don't understand! You sy y0ou don't want to be pushed around by the right anymore so your answer is to bow your head...

Can't beat em then join em??? COME ON DEAN!??!?!?!?

[dEdGrimley]

I love Dean. If you want to say that the media has a liberal bias, look at how they sunk a liberal for making an excited noise at the end of a speech. Which made sense in context, even.

[upplsuckimcool16]

@dEdGrimley

Well I thought I likded Deans views until I saw this...

he says he's tired of getting pushed around by the far right and his answer to that is to bow his head and just agree with them?? COME ON!!! Fuck that shit...

[pakebeer2u]

US Health Care is an oximoron.

No Health and No Care.

US Unhealthy Nonecare would be more appropriate and most probably # 1 on this globe.

[dEdGrimley]

I like your point.

I hate your joke.

[pakebeer2u]

It is still a free country Ed but as a non US citizen having lived some 10 yrs in USA of which 8 under dubya I know from my own experience that it was not meant to be a joke. I know what happened to my body and health when I lived in USA ,moreover I know health and health care is way better where we are living now. In the meantime I feel terribly sorry for the US nation ruled by pharma and food industry.

[degraves2003]

All we really need to do is repeal the corn subsidy and watch the corn starch, corn oil, and corn syrup evaporate from food labels.

[pakebeer2u]

Right Ed, and replace the cornfields with wheat and rye plus hold on the salt, hormones and antibiotics in the food.

[DAngelo136]

This is the best of all times to implement single payer health care; there are models that are successful (Canada, France, Gr.Britain), the need is apparent (16% of GDP for health care) and the national will is there (polls show that the public overwhelmingly want some "public option") While both parties dither over the present mediocre legislation, we the people should become active and push for the simplest solution; expansion of Medicare. It is imperative that we do so now.

[TTEchidna]

BYAAAAH

[jldurham6]

What is the "mandate"? Is that the requirement that you have insurance or you go to jail or pay a fine?

[TTEchidna]

That is indeed the mandate.

[PreetSG]

yes.

[pisces196949]

good question.

[micahgee]

@jldurham6

without any public option or Medicare expansion, the Mandate just places an increasingly expensive, private insurance industry.

The same politicians who babble about "Government-run healthcare" are so quick to defend Medicare and even attack Democrats for attempting to reform it.

[matsut81]

like car insurance

[RawFoodKevin]

No, not at all like car insurance, which is mandated to insure OTHER PEOPLE'S medical expenses and property losses.

Besides, driving is a privilege, not a right. If you don't want to buy car insurance, you don't have to. But then you can't drive a car.

[degraves2003]

Which is why Health insurances is infinitely more important and should be compulsory. If you can't drive a car you are limited in your economics, If you don't have Health Insurance, your basicing playing russian roulette where the outcomes are death, bankruptcy, or not get an severe illness. Your life is left up to chance and the decision of other people. People can chose to drive a car but they don't chose to get in an accident. People don't chose to get sick.

[RawFoodKevin]

Which is why only the government should insure health. If it is so important, how in the hell are you going to mandate poor people and the lower half of the middle class to purchase it?

Single payer works in every other industrialized country, and it can work here too!

U.S. life expectancy is lower than all other industrialized countries, which is another indictment against the for profit health insurance companies, and death panels who deny legitimate claims.

[degraves2003]

Single payer has an indirect mandate. Your so confuse you don't seem to see it. The mandate is not the problem the issue is when to cut the mandate off. The mandate is constitutional, if it is not then federal law enforcement agencies should be abolish along with the executive branch of government.

[RawFoodKevin]

The mandate to force everyone to buy overpriced, for profit health insurance, which has nothing to do with the IRS or taxes, is clearly unconstitutional.

That is the problem. It is easily solved by enacting medicare for all and raising taxes on the uber rich to pay for it.

[degraves2003]

I don't see your reform package on here nor do I see you offer anything but complaints. Talk is cheap, I know you hate plutocracy, and insurance companies (who doesn't) but are you going to do about it outside your voting habits. My guess right now is nothing because you have offered to do nothing, your part of the problem.

[RawFoodKevin]

Do you lack the ability to comprehend what you read?

I said, "It is was easily solved by enacting medicare for all and raising taxes on the uber rich to pay for it." That is not a complaint, that is a solution.

If talk is cheap, then why do you post here?

Your mind reading abilities are also lacking.

Please spare us your boring, illogical ad hominems and hypocritical lecturing coming from your parents basement. The topic is about health care, not about me.

[RawFoodKevin]

To whoever gave me thumbs down on my comment above about car insurance, you are a butthead.

So sorry to see you can't handle the truth.

[degraves2003]

you pay a fine unless you are financially unable to buy insurance and don't qualify for medicaid.

[smdiddy]

Why not make the Medicare buy-in available to people younger then 55 this would be a public option and would be much easier. I personally feel we need single payer for all we currently pay twice as much and have 15% uninsured.

[degraves2003]

Single Payer is a better system - but the political will is absent in D.C. Right now.

[micahgee]

@smdiddy

expansion/reform of Medicare is the simplest way to increase coverage, decrease cost and improve quality of healthcare!

There is already a single payer system: its called Medicare. It works so well that Republicans attack Democrats for supposedly "gutting Medicare", the exact "Government-run" model which they call "Socialism" and worse!

The simplest way to a workable single payer alternative to private health insurance is Medicare!

The reimbursement rates need to change tho.

[Rahab111222]

I love it when Howard Dean shows up 'cause Cenk always plays the Eye of the Tiger song!

[micahgee]

@Rahab111222

Cenk's goofy soundboard is great!

I love when he gets the wrong one ^_^

Cenk's goofiness makes the show worth watching. That being said, when Cenk gets angry at "conventional wisdom" I pump my fist!

Its amazing the corporatist and conservative bias in all the MSM including most of MSNBC. The "liberal" channel has 3 hours with a mega phone for Fmr. Republican Joe Scarborough mismatched with "liberal" Mika B. Does Fox News have a Democrat host a 3 hour show? Exactly...

[dEdGrimley]

I've never heard that Mika was a liberal.

And he gets a sound wrong on his sound board almost once a clip.

[zacky89]

I wonder if Howard Dean would be this outspoken if he still was in the congress.

[RawFoodKevin]

No, because Howard Dean was never in "the congress", at least not as a Senator or as a Representative.

Besides, Howard Dean has always been outspoken against the powers that be. That's why he is so popular.

I still say the winning presidential ticket is:

Kucinich/Dean 2012

[mrx0066600]

You know looking back at the key moment that lead to Howard dean looking unfavorable when he was trying to run for election. I really wish it didn't happen and that he was the president. Because that little "yeah" business, ruined what was actually a decent politician's chance... and man I feel really bad about it. Because he's making really good calls and doing a lot of correct fighting for what is the truth about all this healthcare business.

[dangerouslytalented]

And they actually chose a soundtrack that was a bit misleading. He was yelling like that because it was a very noisy place, with lots of cheering, but they went and isolated his microphone, and that made him sound like a crazy ranting loon.

[TTEchidna]

But that was awesome. If I could've I'd've voted for him just for that.

[TheGiantRobot]

Yeah, that was a deliberate hit piece by the media. They tried to pretend he was angry. It was appalling. The mainstream press are not our friends, they are our enemies.

He was the most progressive guy running, he had clear, common sense, practical solutions to what was ailing us that would have worked. That's why they had to kill his campaign.

[RawFoodKevin]

What really ruined Dean's chances was Joe Trippi's deplorable campaign management. Trippi fought a personal, mean spirited battle against Dick Gephardt, which turned off Iowa voters, and Trippi blew all of Dean's money in Iowa too!

Dean's mistake was trusting Trippi too much.

Dean became popular exactly because he was so well spoken

That is why he had to be taken down with a mere utterance, doctored up beyond belief. The "Dean scream" is an outright lie. It never sounded that way in real life

[WARDOG1138]

As a Single payer supporter, I cannot say that I am at all "Thrilled" with a Medicare Buy-in, but it is better than no form of the "public option". Get rid of the Mandate? HELL YEAH!!

[dangerouslytalented]

Medicare buy in is a kind of public option

[WARDOG1138]

yea....I know. In no way is it robust enough to make someone like myself happy though.

[Keirnoth]

Howard Dean! Yay!

[killerbandit]

Just make it so that every single person who wants to sign up for the government system can sign up, anyone who wants to opt out for any reason can say no.

If so many Americans really want affordable health care, then let us see them vote with their bodies. Each one of us has one.

Make it affordable as is possible with a public system, in other words, get rid of the 30% overhead that goes to stock holders and executive bonuses.

Then let's see how it works.

[bangurdead102]

...i don't want a mandate... that's for sure, and I want a public option..

[kazooga1234]

same i want a public option and i dont want it to fuck up hawaiis single payer system either or make mass shit bill even worse

[dangerouslytalented]

Public option is severely weaksauce. Single payer or GTFO.

[dangerouslytalented]

They knew it would not get through their own party.

Honestly, they should have simply gone for taking the legislation of any country with universal healthcare and used that, just copied and pasted. Instead they are reinventing the wheel.

[TheGiantRobot]

I'm inclined to agree. The old already have single payer with medicare - what makes them so special? Why don't they want to share it?

Everyone should have it as a back up. If you're well off enough to get private insurance or just pay your own bills, that's great, you don't have to use public care then.

What I really think we need is to bring back public clinics that anyone can use.

[RawFoodKevin]

The old have nothing to do with not wanting to be special or not wanting to share medicare. Congress writes the laws, not our senior citizens. Perhaps you missed that year in civics class.

It is the for profit health care insurance companies who don't want an expansion on Medicare because they know it would put them out of business.

So the insurance companies hire K Street lobbyists to legally bribe Democrats and Republicans to thwart the will of WE THE PEOPLE.

[TheGiantRobot]

I never took a civics class. Maybe yours didn't serve you. Older Americans are one the most powerful lobbies in Washington. They are also the richest age demographic. It's not by chance that the richest and oldest get the most tax breaks and subsidies in America.

I know well that the insurance companies are terrified of an expansion of medicare. They aren't able to obstruct this all on their own, it's because of the apathy or outright greed of Americans who are doing just fine as they are.

[RawFoodKevin]

For you to claim old people are rich and control Congress is simply laughable

The upper class 5%, not elderly, owns more than the bottom 95%.

The only reason why the elderly have medicare in the first place is because they would all be dropped by the for profit health insurance companies.

Also, if you had paid attention to this issue, you would know the recently discarded HCR bill was written primarily by the K Street lobbyists who represent the for profit health insurance companies.

[FixedNewsChannel]

Cenk is putting the weight on again.

[TheGiantRobot]

Oh, thank you so much, Dean, for saying get rid of the mandate. Once again, it's so bizarre that the Republicans are stepping forward to get rid of the mandate while so many Democrats keep trying to force it on us.

Exactly, they are thinking like insurance company execs. Force the young and the poor to subsidize the insurance companies, the old, and the well off.

So much for "liberals" who don't actually believe in freedom or looking out for the poor.

Great interview.

[nirtseg]

"[T]he Republicans are stepping forward to get rid of the mandate while so many Democrats keep trying to force it on us."

The individual mandate was initially a Republican policy proposal, and I distinctly recall it being strongly endorsed by Chuck Grassley and others in the early phases of the reform debate. I suspect Democrats adopted the idea in a misguided conciliatory effort to secure bipartisanship; unsurprisingly, the mandate's Republican proponents subsequently reversed their view.

[TheGiantRobot]

You really think the Democrats didn't want it? I think they both wanted it, but word got out that people are pissed about it, so Republicans are now flip-flopping. But, the Democrats are still fighting to get it back in. Specifically, Obama is trying to get it in.

It's just a reminder that you always need opposition, even if the opposition are jerk offs. Jerk offs will call you on your faults, even if they have them worse.

[nirtseg]

"You really think the Democrats didn't want it?"

I honestly don't know, and I'm not very interested in conjecturing about their motivations. When the Democrats initially embraced the idea, the public option was still alive and appeared politically viable, and Obama's stance on the issue was one of at least tepid support (as opposed to the total indifference he's presently exhibiting). Given the public option, the individual mandate is justifiable; without the public option, it's untenable.

[TheGiantRobot]

You just did conjecture, that's what I asked you about, your conjecture.

By the way, I don't like that you posted a truncated version of my sentence with quotes around it. The bizarre aspect is pretty important - otherwise someone looks and thinks I expect good things from Republicans. That's not cool.

I'm glad we agree on the last. The important thing to remember is that no one is good. We all need someone to keep us honest, those checks and balances.

[nirtseg]

"By the way, I don't like that you posted a truncated version of my sentence with quotes around it. The bizarre aspect is pretty important - otherwise someone looks and thinks I expect good things from Republicans. That's not cool."

I apologize, I certainly didn't intend to omit any important context from your post, and the presence of brackets at the beginning of your quote should denote to any reader that the post has been altered in some way. I abridged it because I ran out of room.

[TheGiantRobot]

OK, thanks. I noticed you did the bracket at least, though it took me a while to understand the meaning of it.

[nirtseg]

"It's just a reminder that you always need opposition, even if the opposition are jerk offs. Jerk offs will call you on your faults, even if they have them worse."

I agree with that totally, though it's certainly an uncomfortable predicament to be compelled to agree with the Republicans on a major facet of policy, particularly when it's readily apparent that their opposition is chiefly inspired by political calculation, rather than good-faith disagreement.

[dangerouslytalented]

The Republicans are trying to get rid of EVERYTHING.

[RawFoodKevin]

Except the military and corporate welfare.

[bungerman1000]

you do know how insurance works right? Everyone pays in when they are healthy and then you dip into the pool when you get sick? Sadly, to keep costs down they need a mandate. Not that a mandate sounds good for anything, I do agree there.

[TheGiantRobot]

I know how insurance works.

It's not to take from the healthy. It's to pool risk and to turn a profit for the insurer 99% of the time. It's a business.

Those who have greater risk pay more, those with lesser risk pay less. Those who can't afford it, or don't want it, or don't need it, don't buy it.

If they want to raise taxes to cover the uninsured, I think that's great. If they want to fine people who don't or can't buy insurance for the sake of everyone else, that to me is essentially evil.

[degraves2003]

Somehow it is only evil if the Federal government does it. States mandate people to buy things like CAR INSURANCE all the time because it is important for cost and stability. Health Insurance is infinitely more important then Car Insurance and should be mandated for the exception of the minority in the donut hole. Remember most poor people are covered through government already.

[mrtwiggyXbundy]

im not

[TheGiantRobot]

Car insurance mandates are only to cover damage you might do to someone else, not to yourself or your vehicle. And, if you set aside enough to cover a serious accident, you don't have to buy insurance at all.

States mandated this insurance because poor people were crashing into rich people and couldn't pay for the damage.

Health insurance isn't health care and shouldn't be confused with it. If you think it is, you need to hear some more insurance horror stories.

[degraves2003]

Your comment is so off of reality it is ridiculous. You seem to come from a world where only rich people's cars are hit by poor peoples car. Most the cars on the road are middle class and working poor so for them losing a car can be seriously detrimental, especially for commuters. I know because my family was one of them. So I would have to reject your unrealistic and downright awful assessment of car insurance.

[nirtseg]

@degraves2003, It's a flawed and fundamentally unjust policy because it uses prohibitive fees to coerce people into buying an obscenely expensive product whose function should be performed by the gov't. Granted, the bill apparently allocates subsidies to pay for the compulsory insurance, but unless income taxes are raised, those subsidies will expand the deficit. It's also rather strange to offer insurance subsidies to one subset of the population, while taxing the insurance of another.

[degraves2003]

The health system will lead to a higher deficit regardless if the bill is passed or not therefore your point is not only mute but pointless. The bill seeks to make a lateral adjustment in cost to solve the issues now. The deficit is a wedge issue similar to abortion. It is a seperate issue entirely and is caused b a whole host of problems not just Health care.

[petuniamighty]

bullshit ,we save 30 billion over the next 10 years ,get a brain and a clue ,so dumb that you morons are out there europe is fantastic ,i lived for years ,not one homeless person seen in france london ,rome , the people are beautiful , work less in many cases food places close in the afternoon for resting or whatever they want ,civil they are civil ,you are a moron wake up

[RawFoodKevin]

Car insurance is mandated to protect OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY and has nothing to do with "cost and stability"

Nexxt, "most poor people" are not "covered through government already". That is why they wait until the last minute to go to the emergency ward

Didn't you hear Dean say it would cost less to insure the uninsured because preventative care costs less than emergency room care?

Lastly, there is no comparison between the importance of health vs. car insurances. We need both

[degraves2003]

The most poor people are not going to the emergency room, It is the working poor and middle class that are jamming the emergency room. Your assertion is outside the reality.

[RawFoodKevin]

No it isn't. The working poor and the lower half of the middle class do not have health insurance either.

Single payer similar to the rest of the industrialized world would cut our total health care costs by at least 25%, if not more.

U.S. healthcare costs twice as much as the rest of the industrialized world, yet our life expectancy is lower than all of them.

Less care and less effective care at a greater expense. I say put the for profit health care insurance blood suckers out of business!

[gozimus]

@RawFoodKevin blood sucking health care corporations indeed.

[degraves2003]

Exactly, bigger pool spreads risk cost.

[TheGiantRobot]

Exactly, and you think it's OK to fine the poor to lower your risk cost?

It just gets weirder and weirder. The conservatives keep saying liberals are fascists. They don't even know what it means, but it's coming true.

The difference between fascism and socialism is essentially that in socialism we pay into the state to guarantee essentials of life. In fascism, we are forced by the state to pay into private interests. The new fascism is neoconservatism, and some of you are buying into it.

[degraves2003]

Poor is already covered. You pay for it in your taxes. The bill has a built in donut hole for people you can not afford the insurance but don't apply for the government program.

[TheGiantRobot]

No, the working poor aren't covered, only the desperately poor. The calculation of the poverty line in the U.S. is complete bullshit. Just like they calculate inflation and unemployment at about half what it really is.

The federal poverty line is $10,830.

You know what you call that in California? Homeless. People working at minimum wage here make about $16,640 before taxes. You force them to buy insurance and they'll starve.

Help the poor or leave them be. You don't fine people to help them.

[degraves2003]

Which is why the current bills have a built in donut hole. Haven't you been paying attention. There is a hardship provision if you can pay the tax or buy insurance. I know what I was talking about.

[TheGiantRobot]

No, you are the one whose not paying attention.

What part of the "donut hole" (I hate that fucking euphemism) being set too low do you not understand?

What part of not fining people who need help do you not understand? Are you a fucking right wing Republican? A fascist? Let me guess, you think the rich pay too high taxes and the poor should kick in more.

Not much of a guess since that's what you're proposing.

[degraves2003]

First of all I am not using the donut hole has a negative term, secondly the hardship exemption (which you never actually address) extends several times over the poverty level - meaning a group is exempt from the mandate (hence the built in donut hole). I am not Republican nor a fascist but I believe in facts. In this case building a donut hole is a good thing not a negative because you are alleviating the concern you brought up.

[TheGiantRobot]

I have addressed the hardship exemption over and over again. It's set too high. It was too high in the last bill and it will be again, because no one has they'll make it higher.

It doesn't alleviate shit. It's the ONLY thing creating a problem. Without the mandate, it doesn't matter how much they fuck this up, how much insurance companies raise their rates - you don't have to buy.

Trapping people with these companies - fining them no less. Is anyone paying attention to whose running the show?

[degraves2003]

If the exemption is too high then there is no problem. I don't think the exemption is too high it applies to people where the tax is greater then 8% of their income. So now you are arguing that is not good enough. You are arguing 2 different points are you even sure which side your on. You just argued that the people will be force to buy insurance now you are arguing that not enough are required to buy insurance. Are you a Trojan Republican because you are making no sense.

[TheGiantRobot]

Dude, I accidentally said high there when I should have said low, and you know it. You know exactly what I'm saying, I've said it a dozen times by now, don't pretend otherwise.

Actually, I don't care anymore, pretend what you want. Pretend that we'll be saved by a market place, or anti-trust, so we should lock ourselves into mandated private insurance.

Ignore the fact that the insurance companies, banks, big pharma, etc. are taking more control of our leaders than ever before, and submit.

[degraves2003]

I hear a lot of complaining but I don't hear you coming up with a solution. It is an easy talking point to just blame the companies, but talk is cheap. Personally I think that Health Insurance is the equivalent of essential services such as police and should be completely government control. No other industry has the power to legally euthanize people. It is a great moral dilemma to leave it in the hands of corporation but there is no political will to do otherwise.

[FearedBliss]

I agree

[dagorian86]

@degraves2003 Yes, all the best healthcare systems in the world are single payer,government run insurance systems. France is currently number 1 and has a robust single payer system. The US is ranked 37th and is overwhelmngly number 1 in costs per captia... so it always amazes me when the repubs scream out that they have the best healthcare in the world.... based on what exactly?

[SirPwn4lot]

@dagorian86 No man, I'm gonna have to agree with the Republicans on this one. The US DOES have the BEST healthcare system in the world. IF YOU'RE RICH.

If you have unlimited cash then the US has by far the best healthcare system. Thing is that 99.9% of the US doesn't have that kind of money.

[Savior20061]

Repubs say ours is the best not because it is true (it isn't) but for two reasons:

1. as long as they believe the US is the best at everything, they can convince themselves that reforms or changes of any type are wrong.

2. part of it's based on the fact that the masters of the current shitty system are lining their pockets with lobbying cash.

[matsut81]

not so much health insurance. but health care.

[Zakdayak]

@TheGiantRobot Couldn't have said it better my friend

[degraves2003]

Secondly I don't think you command of any facts on this issue. the exemption picks up where the covered poor leaves off. The Mandate is a double edged sword without the public option but by requiring a baseline coverage, prohibiting exclusion due to previous illness, is taking away the Insurance Comp to selectively pick healthy people. I preventing exclusion companies will maximum based on volume (b/c they are incentivized to in the new system), to do that they have to charge less.

[degraves2003]

If the Insurer gets too expensive since there is now a marketplace for it there will be an ability to purchase a cheaper Insurer (This is an incentivizes the Insurer to keep rates low) which is why the Anti-Trust exemption removal is also important. Since they are now under Anti Trust laws the bigger companies can't buy out all the smaller insurers, Insurers can't operate as an Oligarch and do price setting schemes to game the system. The bill is by no means perfect but it is a step forward.

[RawFoodKevin]

I guess you didn't hear Dean when he said private health insurance costs at least 25% more than medicare, because that is the amount of money needed for marketing, CEO salaries and dividends.

No amount of competition and anti-trust laws are going to reverse this fatal flaw. That is why the rest of the industrialized world has single payer.

[TheGiantRobot]

Ah, nice we agree on this, RawFoodKevin.

[degraves2003]

correction can't.

[RawFoodKevin]

The donut hole is actually another hidden tax on the poor and middle class used to subsidize tax breaks given to the upper 1% plutocracy.

[degraves2003]

It is easy to make an out of the blue but you also have to provide facts to back your assertion up.

[RawFoodKevin]

I'm not making anything up. Just because you can't cope with reality.

The fact is, the upper 1% plutocracy has been systematically stealing the wealth of the middle class ever since Reagan was elected president.

This is supported by the fact that they now own more than the bottom 95% and by the fact that we now have the greatest inequity of income in the history of the U.S.

[sinterics]

No mandate...Gov. Dean is the leader... Medicare buy in... yes..

Reforming the Healthcare system is good for business... All the other corporations should be cheering...

[dangerouslytalented]

The hopeless situation of the US healthcare system is one of the major reasons why GM and Chrysler went bust. They were spending more on healthcare than they were spending on steel.

[RawFoodKevin]

WRONG!!!

They went bust because Free Trade Treaties made it impossible for US based manufacturing plants to compete against foreign based companies.

We have pollution laws, work place safety laws, health insurance, disability insurance, and retirement accounts. Foreign manufacturers have slave labor and no pollution laws.

[RawFoodKevin]

Also, GM, Ford and Chrysler make crappy cars compared to Toyota, Honda and most other car companies.

[degraves2003]

Free Trade Treaties failed the US manufacturing base because there weren't enough protection for our workers, the treaties weren't enforced has well as they could have been. Free Trade Agreements can be good thing if we can make sure the laws passed are reciprocated in the other nations.

[RawFoodKevin]

There aren't not weren't enough protection against foreign goods for what I said in my previous post.

We don't need protection from goods coming into the U.S., we need protection from goods coming into the U.S. made by exploiting and destroying the environment and the workers.

We don't need FREE Trade Treaties, we need FAIR Trade Treaties.

[degraves2003]

Idiot if you actually knew the issue then you would know if other countries had more enforce more stringent protections in there markets such as labor reform the markets would be more fair. For example Mexico probably produces corn for the fraction of the price we do with the same regulations but because the US subsidizes corn the Mexican corn market evaporated putting thousands of already poor indigenous farmers out of work.

[RawFoodKevin]

Are you another arrogant glutton for hegemony?

Actually, I do know the issue. We cannot force the rest of the world to "enforce more stringent protections in there (sic) markets".

But we can keep out their Free Trade products and negotiate Fair Trade Treaties as an incentive for them to change on their own.

By the way, the U.S. is in violation of several treaties because of the fact that we do subsidize U.S. farmers.

[dangerouslytalented]

German and Japanese workers are paid more, German and Japanese pollution controls are stricter, German and Japanese fuel economy, workplace safety laws and disability insurance are all tighter.

Toyota and VW and Honda have maintained their profits and dominance.

[mstraney]

Well Toyota is in an interesting SNAFU right now. Other than that you are exactly right. We made a choice in this country to do a race to the bottom. On the other hand the Japanese chose to use quality labor. How many Japanese cars are manufactured in mexico? Almost none. Just look at how well the low cost model worked out for GM.

[armoredmex116]

Good interview Cenk!

[DiverseLA]

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