Jonas Kaufmann, Un di all'azzurro spazio (Improvviso) , Andrea Chénier

[Zva26]

Macbeth: SHICOFF1 might have made an error and punched on the wrong video. I've encountered this several times when the comments have nothing to do with the subject. I think I once made the same error myself.

[SHICOFF1]

looking back 2 mos. ago here, I do see some interesting discussion on this site about Kaufmann, constructive both pro and con, nice when personal insults are left out as they where here. Thank you!

[SHICOFF1]

Heard tenor Giordani last Saturday night in house (Chicago) in Aida with Sondra Radvanovsky as Aida and he sounded Very big in his upper middle voice in the house. It also was a radio Brdcst being the first performance (on WFMT) and a friend taped it. I heard the tape yesterday and his voice sounded much bigger in house then on the Brdcst. So you never know. I was in a good Orchestra seat, close up. Sondra stole the show with some fine singing and held her own besides singing beautifully.

[Macbett02]

@SHICOFF1 And what has this to do with this video? Sorry guys but if you want to have a general conversation you can do it with private messages!

[SHICOFF1]

I WORKED IN THE LATE 60'S AT A CLASSICAL RADIO STATION IN LA CAL. AND MET SO MANY OPERA SINGERS. GREAT TIME IN OPERA. TREIGEL, SILLS, UPPMANN, CORELLI, TEBALDI, TUCKER, AND PEERCE STILL SANG ETC. SILLS WAS FUNNY AND WITTY AND STELLA ROMAN A FRIEND OF MINE WAS RETIRED BUT WONDERFUL AND THREW GREAT PARTIES WITH MANY SINGERS COMING TO HER APT. ON SUNSET BLVD. SHE WAS ROMANIAN AND A GREAT FUN PERSON RIP. TUCKER INVITED ME OFTEN TO THE OPERA AND DINNER AND PEERCE SANG BLUEBIRD FOR ME IN MY CAR !

[SHICOFF1]

GIORDANI LAST WEEK IN HOUSE SOUNDED BIG IN THE MIDDLE UPPER RANGES BUT NOT PRETTY. NOW A DAYS WE CAN NEVER BE SURE ABOUT AMPLIFICATION IN BIG OPERAS HOUSE'S. WHEN VOICES LIKE CALLEJA AND FLOREZ SOUND LARGE, YOU HAVE TO WONDER . ANYHOW SONDRA RADVANOVSKY STOLE THE SHOW LAST SAT. NIGHT CHGO HEARD IT IN HOUSE, BUT LAST ACT I HAD TO BE SOMEWHERE SO WAS IN MY CAR AND HEARD THE REST ON RADIO IN THE CAR AS IT WAS BRDCAST (AIDA) GIORDANI SOUNDED WAY BIGGER IN THE HOUSE ON TOP NOTES THEN ON THE BRDCST

[SHICOFF1]

YES YOU CAN NEVER JUDGE VOLUME PROPERLY UNLESS YOU ARE IN HOUSE, ON RADIO IT'S INTO THE MIC. KAUFFMANN IS NOT A HUGE VOICE BUT DARK AND HAS A FINE TOP OFTEN. I HEARD HIM . PAV. AND AND JUSSI NEVER HAD BIG SPINTO VOICES BUT PAV WITH AGE DID GET LARGER YES BUT AT FIRST IT WAS FAR FROM POWERFUL WHEN I HEARD HIM BACK IN THE MID 70's AND JUSSI IN THE HOUSE AS THE DUKE in 1958 WAS NOT A POWERFUL VOICE BUT IT DID CARRY LIKE BERGONZI ALSO BUT BOTH SOUNDED BIGGER ON RECORDINGS, IN STUDIO ESPECIALLY.

[SHICOFF1]

@ARRONCOOKER TOO MANY FOR ME TO LIST HERE BUT MORELL, KIRSTEN, DOMINGO, RYSANEK, FLEMING, DI GIUSEPPE,JOSE C. HADLEY,VARRET,BUMBRY,TUCKER,AR­ROYO,SILLS,SUTHERLAND, PRICE IN OPERA AND RECITAL. MOLESE, MALOMOOD, MERRILL, GOBBI,CHRISTOFF,RAMEY,ALVAREZ. SO MANY MORE I CAN'T THINK OF NOW. KAUFMANN- LAST HEARD IN MANON IN CHICAGO AND I HAD HEARD HIM IN SPINTO ROLES BEFORE, THAT SUITED HIM BETTER BY FAR. HE WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT OTELLO SOMEDAY BUT I DIDN'T CARE FOR HIM IN MANON OR TOSCA OR ALAGNA .

[SHICOFF1]

@ARRONCOOKER YES I HEARD MOST ALL OF THEM FROM 1957 ON EVERY YEAR AT LYRIC IN CHICAGO AND IN LOS ANGELES ALL IN HOUSE, THE 60'S AND 70'S I SPENT TIME DIVIDED WITH CHICAGO AND SOMETIME IN NEW YORK. HEARD JUSSI IN 1958 AS THE DUKE WITH MOFFO. BERGONZI 1961 AND SINCE IN RECITAL. HEARD KRAUS, PD, RT, FC, FT, MDM, DI STEF TEBALDI, SCOTTO,FRENI, CALLAS KAUFMANN ,SHICOFF,GRUBEROVA AND GIORDANI IN AIDA WITH SONDRA LAST SAT , CHICAGO IN HOUSE, MANY MORE, VICKERS, GIACOMINI, EVEN SCHIPA, 1962 RECITAL

[jackylen57]

quelle voix superbe !!! Je l'adore. Merci Macbett02

[Maripudelmonaco]

Y, DICEN QUE ES EL MEJOR TENOR DEL MUNDO ? PUES MADRE MIA CÓMO SERÁ EL PEOR... ASÍ ESTÁ EL MUNDO DE LA LÍRICA, CON ESTAS MEDIOCRIDADES A LAS QUE HAN CONVERTIDOS EN DIVOS MEDIÁTICOS., PERO, ¿ VERDAD QUE ES MUY GUAPO ?

[sisifus100]

Fantastic, this concert took place during the great strike in Athens, no orquestra, no condcutor only a pianist, but Jonas voice so great as always....amazing...

[karifrid]

I was on a concert with Mr. Kaufman in the new Music house in Iceland in spring. I had listened to him on youtube and liked the sound and his musicality. I was disappointed because I heard him not well,sitting on second balcony back row.

There he sounded (dry) with less color and power than on the radio ,where I listened to him later on . Perhaps standing closer to the microphones than me.He is the ONLY "big name" singer I have heard,NOT sounding BETTER LIVE than on video or cd.Sorry for that.

[KnoedlerNummerEins]

The best tenor-voice we have today! Such a singer comes once in a lifetime! Superb!

[SHICOFF1]

YOU SAY BERGONZI--- A BIGGER VOICE THEN DOMINGO? NOT REALLY FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, NEITHER WHERE REALLY BIG VOICES BUT PD WAS JUST MORE SPINTO. He manged Otello, I'm not saying I liked it but heard it in house, best way to judge a voice. Heard Kuafmann twice in house also. Right now he is the best living Spinto on stage with a dramatic baritonal sound and headed for Otello.

[SHICOFF1]

I 'm 71 and heard Jussi, Carlo B. PD, Tucker, Corelli, MDM and many more, so if you want to talk big voices I heard many on stage. Also Vickers, Giacomini but too many to list. I prefer Bergonzi in lyric roles and agree with what Peerce said about him in Aida. Peerce had the volume but wouldn't do it. I heard many lyrics that wouldn't touch it. Pav did and in some of them he was flamed but the late Pav. voice Got bigger.Heard him in the 70's and 80's Later he lost some Beauty for Volume

[aroncooker]

@SHICOFF1 I would love to talk with you about your experiences with these great singers of the past you got the chance to see. Especially since there are hardly any great singers on the stages of today. Definitely not Kaufman. You heard Jussi and Pav live??? Seriously?

[SHICOFF1]

@DON PAOLISSIMO He had a warm Italian sound compared to JB but not as fine on top. Many JB fans say it was powerful but no it was not at all, in fact Peerce had more volume especially in the middle voice but JB had a perfect voice from top to bottom and he had great low notes for a lyric tenor but not big and Bergonzi didn't have much more, after all they where not Like Tucker or Corelli as Spinto's who managed Aida so well. Bjorling sang it in the big Chicago house,1958----was not a success

[SHICOFF1]

@DonPaolissimo I heard Bergonzi many times over 25 years and it was was in the early Pav and Bjorling class power wise, not much more then Jussi with a less brilliant top later Pav. had more volume then CB or JB unless he was being amplified. I heard CB usually being drowned out in quartet 's or sextet's or he just didn't bother to sing them at all because he saved himself. His voice had little squillo but he a warmer voice then JB then He was no Radamaes as Peerce said. FC and RT where

[gaytenor]

DonPaolissimo: Bjorling was obviously not overrated but while his voice was not large in any sense it carried because of its point and clarity in the upper reaches.A friend of mine could not hear Bergonzi in a performance of Lucia di Lammermoor in Chicago in the Sextet and he was fine in Forza versus Aida simply because Forza has no concertato. Also Bergonzi lost his top well before he was 50 but kept up trying for the big note which was dead and often flat as a pabcake.

[DonPaolissimo]

@gaytenor Once again this shows that we all hear (or not, as the case may be) differently.  Seriously, I used to sit in various locations in the Family Circle at the Old Met & could certainly hear Carlo without straining my ears. Radames represented one of Bergonzi's many triumphs & I was honored to hear his singing of this role.

[DonPaolissimo]

If this "whets your appetite", I really wonder as to the state of your digestive system. The Italian aspect is a HUGE issue that is not to be ignored, especially in this fach! Would you, or any sensible person seriously "whet" your appetite over the prospect of Corelli, DelMonaco, et. al., singing Florestan or Siegmund, or other roles out-of-fach??????

[VespasianMusic]

@DonPaolissimo: I have no idea what you mean by an "Italian aspect" or how Mr. Kaufmann lacks this aspect. Are you referencing a specific, objectively defined technical and/or stylistic approach, or is this merely a reflection of arbitrary ethnic prejudice on your part? I also have no idea what you mean by the term "Fach" as used here. Both Florestan and Siegmund lie within the lirico-Spinto and Dramatic Fachs, as did both Corelli and DelMonaco (although Siegmund sits a bit low for Corelli).

[DonPaolissimo]

@VespasianMusic Would the term, "Italianate" be more acceptable to you? This way we can notable tenors such as the great Richard Tucker, Vladimir Atlantov, Anatoly Solovanenko, Ludovic Speiss, Vasile Moldoveanu & other non-Italians who were capable of conveying the emotion, involvement, passion & sound of the Italian vocal tradition & were considered as "Italianate" in their performances. This would, hopefully, also obviate your accusatory tone of "arbitrary ethnic prejudice".

[VespasianMusic]

@DonPaolissimo: I'll accept your response relative to "arbitrary ethnic prejudice". However, you have not provided an answer to the question of what is meant by the "Italianate" and how Mr. Kaufmann lacks that quality or, rather, what distinquishes Mr. Kaufmann from the others you list with respect to "conveying the emotion, involvement, passion & sound of the Italian vocal tradition."

[DonPaolissimo]

@VespasianMusic As for an explanation of "Italianate, it is an , a connection an emotional communication between the person delivering/singing a given selection/passage/phrase & the ear of the listener. It is more, much more than "hitting all the notes", or following the composer's directions. I think it provides the answer to the question, "does the artist actually mean/convince what he is singing? Mr. Kaufmann fails me in these aspects; plus, I just do not care for his vocal quality

[VespasianMusic]

@DonPaolissimo: ALL singing, whether from the Italian, German, Farsi, Chinese, American songbook or any other tradition, is communication. Consequently, your "definition" of the specifically Italianate is so imprecise as to be meaningless. Nonetheless the truth comes out: you don't like Mr. Kaufmann's voice -- his singing does nothing for you. It is perfectly OK to say so - to each his own! What's not OK is your attempt to elevate personal preference to the level of an objective standard.

[DonPaolissimo]

@VespasianMusic Thank you so much for granting me your benevolent permission to express what my ears & experience tell me. However, you are apparently an arrogant & petulant individual who cannot tolerate a differing opinion without resorting to rather rude remarks. I will no longer indulge you in this exercise!

[VespasianMusic]

@DonPaolissimo: OK.

[VespasianMusic]

@DonPaolissimo: Further to my last comment -- indeed, the prospect of a Corelli and/or DelMonaco Florestan and a DelMonaco Siegmund, whether in the original German or in Italian (as was the tradition in Italy prior to about 1960), would whet my appetite! Unfortunately, neither tenor seemed inclined to these roles, although DelMonaco's television performance of Siegmund's music, stylistically unidiomatic though it might have been to some, is positively towering in sheer vocal terms.

[gaytenor]

@VespasianMusic I fully agree with you about the issues being discussed here since a great voice is a great voice is a great voice. And, of course, Herr Kaufmann HAS A GREAT VOICE WITH A RINGING TOP!! I will however point out that Del Monaco did sing Seigmund in Die Walkure at least in Italy.

[DonPaolissimo]

Not only un-Italian, but almost anti-Italian. I expect the passion & intensity of Tucker, DelMonaco, Corelli, even Bergonzi, in this aria. Kaufmann ill-suited to Italian verismo. Voice lacks that ring so essential to successfully presenting this great piece.

[VespasianMusic]

@DonPaolissimo: In every respect, whether one points to the issues of Italianate technique and style, vocal ring and/or "passion & intensity", I find your comment to be nonsensical. Of course, I leave anyone who hears this clip to his own assessment. For myself, however, this is a magnificent performance by any standard, even by those of the other great tenors you mention. It whets the appetite for Mr. Kaufmann's anticipated portrayal of Chenier -- a perfect role for him -- in the future.

[Macbett02]

@VespasianMusic I totally agree with you.

[gaytenor]

@DonPaolissimo Where did Bergonzi hide his ring? A wonderful artist to be sure but ring wasn't his to provide with his usual high note problems. Also, Bergonzi's voice was far too small for the role of Andrea Chenier and a live performance I have is, let us say, not good. Kaufmann has a very dark voice but he has no problem with the top which sure sounds ringing to me.

[DonPaolissimo]

@gaytenor Send me your mailing address & I will be happy to make a copy of a live Chenier w/King Carlo for your perusal. If, after listening, you still feel that he lacks squillo, then I guess Carlo is just not for you....

[gaytenor]

@DonPaolissimo: Thank you for your offer but, as I said above, I have a performance of Andrea Cenier with him.I enjoy Bergonzi in roles he was good in but his voice was too small and lyrical for Chenier let alone Aida.

[DonPaolissimo]

@gaytenor Good Heavens - where did you see Carlo that made you hear a "small" voice? I saw hin many, many times at the Met in Chenier, Aida, Forza, Lucia, Tosca; & even sitting up in the "nosebleed" section, I had no problem hearing him. No, not clarion as Vickers, DelM, Corelli, Tucker, but at least as loud as, say, Labo & certainly bigger than Domingo, Pavarotti, Bjoerling, Carreras.

[gaytenor]

@DonPaolissimo From his Met broadcasts,and friends that heard him in the Met and Chicago. As for his Radames the best comment was made by the late Jan Peerce to a friend of mine. I'm told that Peerce said "Bergonzi should sing Radames like I should do a high wire act in the circus." Bergonzi had no point to his top voice which was small. I have a great many broadcasts of his singing which I enjoy but there is no way he had more power than say Domingo. The others were all overrated.

[gaytenor]

Correction: I meant flat as a pancake versus the flat as a pabcake.