of good and evil, and they make many simple choices, that are easy to differentiate good and bad, helping, hurting, working towards good, or working towards bad. I really don't know whether Jeff Dee is going to hell or not, but I know he has the choice over his destiny, choosing whether to work at being good and wholesome towards life, or evil and violent towards life.
@PumpedAaron I can kinda sorta agree with what you're saying. The problem is, this isn't actually what the Bible teaches. The Bible doesn't teach "be good and wholesome towards life and you'll get into heaven" the Bible actually teaches to say you're sorry for stuff God says your great-ancestor did, grovel in the dirt like a worm and then live the rest of your life obeying religious authority.
Jesus also gives Hell as the punishment for *thinking* about having sex with somebody.
@TheSamuraiGoomba No, God doesn't tell you to apologize for the evil deeds your great ancestor committed. He tells you to apologize for the evil deeds YOU yourself committed. You may have done different evil deeds in your life, but that still counts. And I'm sure you've seen firsthand that Christians are FAR from the sort of humiliated people that would "grovel in the dirt like a worm". I bet you have some examples in your mind of the opposite extreme!
@PumpedAaron Also, Jesus never simply said that you would -surely- go to hell for lusting over someone/thing, (essentially what many people do with porn) but He did state that it was just as much of a sin as actually committing adultry. Its the attitude of the heart that Jesus is getting at, here. If you go and read Jesus' advice, you'd see that He said that someone doing some evil deed was "in danger" of Hell. Not directly going there straight through. As for common sense...
@TheSamuraiGoomba As for common sense, I'm sure you've heard of the Golden Rule, in the Bible, huh? "Do to others as you would have them do to you" ? And there's this other section in Jesus' life where He says that the laws of the Scriptures can be summarized as "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength," and the second is, "love your neigbor as yourself." So no, actually, I can and should be a Christian who can keep his common sense and be generally
@PumpedAaron But jesus also said he didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it. It's confusing. If we really can reduce his whole message to those two things, why don't Christians just take out every other page of awful rape, pillage and murder, not to mention threats of eternal hellfire and torture for thought crime, and simply posit the two commandments alone? Atheists would still take issue with loving God, but it would be much better than what the Bible says now.
@TheSamuraiGoomba Yes, Jesus -did- come to the Earth to fulfill the Law, and if you took a closer look, you'll notice that this completion actually made the Bible a more wholesome spiritual product! For instance, there are many sections, starting around Matthew 5, I believe, where Jesus would mention an old Law, and Jesus would say, "You have heard that the Law said such and such, but I tell you so and so." For instance, "You have heard that the Law said, "Love your neighbor
@TheSamuraiGoomba ... and hate your enemy." But I say "Love you enemies. Bless those who curse you, do good to those who scorn you. For if you love your friends only, what more are you doing than others? Even pagans do that." Jesus takes a similar stance on an old law about murdering, and one about adultry, (which you cited, actually). The point is, Jesus gets at the -heart- of the matter, how we feel on the inside, not just the rituals we go through in our physical life.
@TheSamuraiGoomba The pharisees make an argument to Jesus concerning divorce, citing an old law that states that you can divorce shamelessly with a certificate, but Jesus responds "Moses wrote this law because your hearts were hard." Yes, it is true that the Old Testament laws contained cruel punishments for doing, in our age, simple things, like wearing clothes with blends, or eating pork, but logically thinking about it, there must have been a serious risk involved in doing
@TheSamuraiGoomba ... these acts. Pigs carried harmful diseases back then, for instance, and they couldn't cook them off as well as we can now. The Apostle Paul also argues that the Deutronical laws and so on served as "seers" and were temporary guides, until Jesus ultimately showed up and ushered in an age of gaining oneness with Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
good. By the way, this is my 4th comment, and I accidently replied to myself on the 2nd comment, so you'll have to scroll around a bit for it. Sorry about that.
Wow, for a "calm and measured" response, Jeff Dee was pretty damn pissed off to high heaven!! You could see a sort of "angry imprint" on his forehead the whole time. Don't tell me I'm a retarded Christian and imagined this, by the way, I SAW it, scientifically. Anyway, I do believe in Jesus Christ, and no, that DOESN'T mean I believe person x or person y is going to hell. Ultimately, that is a verdict between the Lord Christ, and person x/y/whoever. Atheists and Christians both have their sense
And for fuck sakes if this guy really doesnt believe in "God", then why the hell would he be offended by something like "God bless you" or "I'll pray for you" in the first place? Those terms are compliments, whoever said them if hoping for the best for you(even if you dont share their beliefs) and not ALL of them believe that all athiests should "burn in hell". But stupid bullshit like this sure doesnt help.
Man this shit is stupid. Instead of actually being open minded toward one another and maybe working together to find out the truth about religion(not just Christianity), ppl like these assholes choose to continue insulting whatever little thing they dont like which just sparks up more b.s(like the flame war below) and divides/diludes ppl further.
I bet the above 2 never actually make a video on calling an actual intelligent and educated Christian like myself. The result would be that they would never put the video out there because it wouldn't have the same brainwashing effect that the media forces on the people in the first place.
The guys in the above video are such tools. I doubt these 2 stopped to think about the implications of their own belief system. The bigotry and hate coming out of atheism against the religious is no different then the bigotry and hate that came from religion in ANTIQUITY.
what this caller needs to realize is that "his religion" makes laws, rules & policy's that affect other people's lives in the most harmful of ways... that is what he really needed to be educated on...
I'm an atheist, but i think Jeff just changes the subject. Maybe the caller doesn't think atheist go to hell, and that's fine. Sometimes we as atheist should relax a little bit.... specially Jeff...
Its the thought that counts, he states later in the video that the simple fact the guy follows a "cult" which beleives that he will be sent to such a horrible place fake or not is wrong.
Its like me saying "unless you join my club you will be beaten and burned for eternity, but you know... its your choice", would you just say "well thats fine with me, thanks for infoming me of that", or would you get quiet insulted and angry?
@mrh112 well again you cannot prove hell is such a firey place of torture cause the descriptions relate also to gehenna, a lake of fire used for being the dead bodies . so references to hell most likely mean that place not a literal place of forever punishment. the bible is hard to understand in places.
I have no idea what you are talking about but im sure its got something to do with assuming the bible is fiction not non-fiction.
Hell does not exist, the bibles description of it is delibretly vague like all other text so peope can take what they desire out of it and make their own imgainary hell and heaven.
I might beleive in a giant bear living in my wall who happens to be invisible and also speaks french... am I ok to beleive that in the 21st century?
religion is actually a form of dilusional disorder caused by propaganda, inproper upbringing or simple misinformation (brainwashing). the only reason many doctors do not actually testify religion as a disease is because it would class 4 billion people as mentally ill, of which 2 billion belong to pretty violent religions.
@mrh112 everything you just said fits an atheist exactly! so who is delusional? now your a doctor too are you? mentally ill. lolllll. now your grasping at straws. your time with me is over too cause most of you must be 12 years old in your thinking. we neither care or acknowledge your non beliefs. the bible even said there would be people like you in the end times. so we are done cause you make no serious claims. you would do better talking to your cousins , the monkeys.
"the bible even said there would be people like you in the end times. so we are done cause you make no serious claims. you would do better talking to your cousins , the monkeys. "
@mrh112 "eligion is actually a form of dilusional disorder caused by propaganda, "
Isn't that funny? improper education and upbringing? Btw, ever since our society has become more liberal we see, increased rates in divorces, underage children having sex, underage girls getting pregnant and getting abortions. In countries like Japan and Sweden, both of which are wealthy, we see some of the world's highest rates of suicide O.o
USA (worlds highest crime rate in a developed country, highest muder rate of a developed country, highest proportion of prisoners of a developed country, highest number of executions in a developed country. Then we have Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe and NK (spiritual leadership) to name a few, all within the worlds lowest HDI, highest crime rates.
@mrh112 "(worlds highest crime rate in a developed country, highest muder rate of a developed country, highest proportion of prisoners of a developed country, highest number of executions in a developed country."
Actually you forgot Brazil, 220 million, mostly from 25 million living in large areas like Sao Paulo. Think poverty has anything to do with it? 1 in 3 Americans are either unemployed or working poor. But that must be religion's fault eh?
@mrh112 As for you calling me stupid, your child like mentality never ceases to amaze. Iran even now, being boycotted by the US. Afghanistan, Pakistan countries that were fucked over by the UK, (in much the same way UK brought foreign workers of conflicting religions into Bahrain to "de-Iranize" the population).
What about Russia and countries still recovering from their anti-religious communist regime? :)
How many atheist states are there in the world...now? well, we have France, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Japan, South Korea, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, to name a few, wait they are all... nice places to live O.o
Bringing up the soviet union is like me bringing up Nazi germany and labeling all Christians based on its actions, you must be a Nazi being Religious I assume?
@mrh112 LOL oh really? So you are telling me that Nazi's and there war was based on religion?
Typical white fail. Google the following, "Judea Declares War on Germany" That happened in 1933, the first act of war before Hitler was in power.
Yes COMMUNISM was the repression of the individual and the repression of religion. Many countries like Belarus, Ukraine, Poland etc are still reeling from communism.
@EquitesVeritatis "Judea Declares War on Germany" was about Jews boycotting German goods because of German antisemitism. How does that refute mrh112's point? It doesn't change the fact that the Nazis were Christian (see "Nazi racial ideology was religious, creationist and opposed to Darwinism" by Coel Hellier).
"I bet the above 2 never actually make a video on calling an actual intelligent and educated Christian like myself. "
@mrh112 Secondly as for Canada being a nice place to live. The same as whats happening in many other countries. Eg we have things like racial quote to ensure the diversity of people being hired. Eg 50% of people in a company should be visible minorities.
ICICI is an Indian bank in Canada and has MAJORITY Indians as employees, therefore despite discriminating, it still satisfies the law of racial quota.
@mrh112 OH btw, you mention Japan. Did you know that Japan killed upwards of 22 million Chinese by the end of WW2 (where only 56 were released from their war camps). And never mind the millions of other Asians they killed. But know how nice they are? they do not acknowledge they committed any war crimes :)
@mrh112 "You are aware that nazi germany killed over 70 million as a result of WW2, and that Iran does not acknowledge their killings of Jews as a war crime.
So much for nice religion :)"
Jews started the war. Google "Judea Declares War on Germany" which happened in 1933.
Any good historian well tell you not to fully believe any account written in a good guy/bad guy context.
Btw 70 million? Are you for real? try 11.3 million total, educate yourself :P
@elibeth121 Even if god does exist, it turns god from a myth to a tyrant. I can't worship a god who says rape victims should marry their rapist, that slavery is ok, that directs genocide, who floods the entire earth, who kills guys for picking up sticks on the sabbath, and who says to kill unbelievers and thinks i should be tortured forever for not kissing his ass. It's all in the bible. The best way to deconversion is reading the bible.
If the presenter (who badly needs anger management) had let the caller say what he believes it would have emerged that he does not actually believe in eternal torment. Not all Christians buy the whole package - which the caller tried to say but was not allowed to. I'm an atheist by the way.
"If you told me that I believe to be imprisoned in life, to resent your attitude to me." PS it is not us that puts you in hell it is God, not us, God. If you deserve to go to hell dude, then you deserve to go to hell.
@elibeth121 You didn't respond to my response. All you vomited out was a non sequitur. I said that you "have to believe we deserve to go to Hell if you are a true Christian/Catholic", which since you purposely ignored, I assume that this is true. Although I don't believe in a god or a hell, I did not state that in my previous response.
When people avoid answering any questions I mostly put that down to them knowing its bullshit but still wanting to make others and oneself believe in the bullshit.
"I dont think they deserve to get killed..." "then stop killing them , WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?" omg this is fucking hilarious because everything this guy is saying is true but he's being extremely blunt about it. i could't stop laughing through the entire video.
Drama induced due to the caller being a typical "Duh Uh Um" ... Answer the question or have at least something to say with authority or conviction.... This was like bass fishing and getting hooked on a log. "Duh Uh Um" ... Waste of time caller!
Christians, they love to talk about how loving, dutiful and compassionate they are, yet I have yet to meet ONE who does not practice hypocrisy to the highest degree. They practice "selective morality". What they like, they cling to and shove down other's throats; what they don't like, they ignore vehemently. That which is palatable and acceptable is supposedly applicable to all; while that which is obnoxious, inconvenient, or self-denying is only applicable to those addressed 2,000 years ago.
I met a guy in wyoming that said he wanted to kill all the wolves in the world because they eat the deer he hunts! Thats fucking retarded. Saying he has more right to eat them than they do? I think there should be a hunter hunting season that overlaps all other hunting seasons! While theyre all killing their ducks and their deer and whatever, I CAN KILL THEM! I know this has nothing to do with religion but the hunting comment made me think about it.
What if you are not taught about God (any of religions) and you go to hell because you do not believe in God, because you were not taught or enlightened?
@SoFlySoAwesome What if you are taught about a god. And you spend your life as a pious person, but you go to hell anyway because you were taught the wrong god?
How do you decide which religion to bet your life on?
This caller sounds like a fucking troll. How can you not know what happens to atheist when they die if you are indeed a Christian? I think he's a troll. He just pretends to be stupid and tries to get people mad. Ugh...waste of time. Caller, if you are reading this comment, that was very immature of you. Grow up ok?
I don't think Jeff assessed the fact that people don't choose what they believe. They either do or don't. The caller might very well have said 'well you mean I never considered that I could believe something else' or 'the hunter just needs meat out of necessity, not so much that they need to die'.
Jeff covered his ass pretty well explaining himself saying it was an appeal to emotion after the call though so I forgive.
@BeBoBli I personally believe people DO choose their beliefs. I mean, when Dawkins talks about how he knows colleagues who are WELL AWARE of all the vidence for evolution and an old earth and all that, yet stil lchoose to believe Scripture is 100% true and infallible ANYWAY...that's damning evidence that it's about choice, not just convincing.
@BigLundi Don't you think that their rejection of evidence and devotion to scripture etc is more down to brainwashing than choice? I don't think we choose our beliefs...I've certainly never decided not to believe in a god. I just don't, and never have.
@Ellie8969 You've decided that holding the position of not believing in god is the more reasonable position to hold in the face of there not beig any compelling evidence to believe.
Meanwhile philosophers like Plantinga have devised ways to justify that not having evidence ISN'T a plausible reason to not believe, and in fact they are justified in believing even if there is none.
@BigLundi I see where you're coming from, but I don't think you're right. Whatever your position, could you simply change your mind tomorrow and start believing something else? I couldn't. I could read the bible, pray, go to church, do all the right things - but if I didn't believe, that would be that. And quoting dead philosophers is rather a lame debating point. No philosopher has the final word on anything.
@Ellie8969 ...I'm not quoting philosphers as a talking point, I'm using Plantinga as an example of someone who has chosen the position that no matter what, even if there is absolutely no evidence of god whatsoever, he believes he is still justified in believing in god, whereas you and I are people who say that if there is no evidence, belief ISNT justified. This methodology and choice of ratioanilzation and choice of beliefs are, in my view, certainly a choice.
@BigLundi But what comes first? The belief or the rationalisation (sp?) for it? I think the belief comes first, and then, when no evidence emerges to show that the belief is correct, then comes the: "But who needs evidence...we have faith"! Belief is not a choice, which is the main reason why Pascal's Wager is such a fail. Plantinga was (like many people) attempting to justify the belief he (or others) already held in the absence of evidence.
@Ellie8969 To YOU AND ME, Pascal's Wager fails. But there are those who believe it's sufficient reason to believe in God, and indeed I've MET those people. I've pointed out WHY it fails, and they have siply shook their heads and said, "I understand but I prefer to believe anyway, just in case."
These people WANt to believe what they do, so they do, and they come up with reasons to make it seem reasonable if they care.
@Ellie8969 To YOU AND ME, Pascal's Wager fails. But there are those who believe it's sufficient reason to believe in God, and indeed I've MET those people. I've pointed out WHY it fails, and they have siply shook their heads and said, "I understand but I prefer to believe anyway, just in case."
These people WANt to believe what they do, so they do, and they come up with reasons to make it seem reasonable if they care.
@TheGeneralCritic :-) Don't think this chap is a Christian - just having an interesting little discourse on whether we choose our beliefs. He says yes, I say no. What say you?
It's not because they are afraid of hell. It's because he is fine with them going to hell. If anyone didn't understand that, that's why its offensive. Its a huge group of people that is completely fine with us being in excruciating unending pain. It doesn't matter that we don't think it will happen. They think it will. How is that not offensive?
I kind of get where Jeff's coming from though. The fact that the caller is laughing about his cult's sentiments of eternal torture, especially to someone that he doesn't believe even deserves it, is scary.
this is the first time I see a clip from AE where a Christian caller does better than a host. Seriously Jeff, that was weak. The "I am sooo offended" pose was laughable when compared to relaxed reactions and chuckling of the caller.
That's not the point. Jeff wasn't being mean, he was merely stating the truth.
The viewer is, by definition of his beliefs, in the opinion that Jeff deserves to be tortured for eternity. He may not think that that torture is RIGHT, yet he worships a god that decrees that such torture is JUST and RIGHT. Therefore, his religious status is in agreement with the statement that "My god says you MUST be tortured for eternity because you doubt my contradictory holy book!"
they should have asked him this "if i walked up to you on the street and told you that if you do not believe bart simpson is your grandfather and that you should eat nothing but strawberry ice cream for a week, then you and your family deserves to be sodomized with a hockey stick, would you think that is right?"
And not only are you told this, you hear this at least once a day, from different people.
would you start getting offended when people say "your making your kids get sodomized" ??
The critical point is not that Jeff doesn't believe he'll burn in hell, idiot caller, that's irrelevant. What's relevant is that YOU DO believe it. THAT is what is offensive!
@leisulin They are gonna Burn in Hell if they do not accept Christ as their saviour, and they do deserve it because Christ is the Only way and they choose to reject him so therefore they deserve to fry in Hell, but i am going to Hevean because i accepted Jesus into my Heart..
You deserve to be devoured by Loki's daughter Hel for not accepting Odin as your lord and savior, and you may face redemption if only you swear your sword to Thor in the final battle of Ragnarok.
If that sounds silly to you, really think about what, exactly, you just typed.
True Christians feel depressed for sinners, specially the ones we attach to from day to day life. It is unfair to say CHRISTIANS offend you, because it's OUR choice to believe in what we want. How horrible can you be to be offended over someone else's beliefs?
If you didn't believe in the bible in the first place, you simply wouldn't care nor get offended. Unless we walk right up to you and shout "you're going to hell!" only then should you be offended.
@danielkirk1 im not offended by christian beliefs, i merely feel sorry for them. I am however strongly against the negative influense they sometimes try to impose on the real world. Religion is like wanking, do it at home, alone or with fellow wankers, and not in public.
However, if you do have evidence that does support your case, then present it and expect the evidence to be scrutinized. And if that evidence is flawed, expect to be called upon it.
@MagnusNyborg Why do you feel sorry for Christians? Spare your sympathy please, us christians are rewarded knowing we make the lowly feel good, and the angry feel calm. I will not contain god like a sexual immoral activity, don't be disgusting.
If you want evidence so much, go to a goverment building and ask for secret files about ufos.
@danielkirk1 i feel sorry for anyone who believe something without evidence, because soo does mental patients. I also feel sorry for them. Reality is more important than fantasy, wouldnt you agree? How do you distinguish them apart?
Fantasy fantasy fantasy fantasy supposition fantasy fantasy. This has to stop.
@MagnusNyborg Why equate me to mental patients? Is rudeness hand in hand with evidence? Fantasy is more important then reality, because we couldn't come up with a reality without first a fantasy :)
sort of Like how Richard Dawkins fantasized making money off miserable prunes *cough*.
Right now I fantasize a world without arrogant jerkoff's, it's nice! Got a theory for families dieing of starvation? thought not.
@MagnusNyborg nononono lol. "because soo does mental patients" - Just be honest and stop it. Don't insult me then tell me you aren't insulting me. Mental patients are irrelevant (got evidence that they aren't to your analogy?).
I've helped mental patients that have so much heart and knowledge that YES... EVEN I WISH I HAD. The evidence? The experience i have while i do it. The only fantasy here is this self replicating theory babble(no offense).
@danielkirk1 it is called analogy, and you made the connection, not I. I only conclude that there is an analogy, you made the connection back to yourself.
Perhaps you are realising you are on a thin ground?!
Live being selfreplicating is a scientic fact, if you ignore that you are in fact delusional. Wishfull thinking on your part does not count as evidence, sorry.
@MagnusNyborg "You want to remain ignorant in order to fit in a god in the picture"- let this sentence argue with itself. God is a good thing. If i had one bit of insecurity, I'm not truly a Christian. I myself have gotten amazing turns in my life that science could never give me in billions of years. The evidence? What i experienced! And if what i experienced wasn't real... I wouldn't be able to believe anything.
@danielkirk1 "If i had one bit of insecurity, I'm not truly a Christian"
That is the problem, a rational being would have insecurities about this, as evidence keeps piling up that the bible is not accurate, that christians are not good people (christians have higher chriminal rates, higher abuse rates, higher teen pregnancy rates etc), and the fact that other religions make the same claims you do, yet completely contradicts you. You can not all be right, but you can all be wrong.
@MagnusNyborg I laughed at this. If I believed in god WITH insecurity, THEN would I be irrational. BUT because what i have experienced is my EVIDENCE(woo word of the day) that sort of implies you're the irrational one, regardless on your quest for evidence. That criminal rate comment was pure bullshit. And besides, if they were TRUE Christians i assure you it would be the other way around. I am all right, because you have yet to prove me wrong. And good luck because the best of you haven't.
@danielkirk1 as i said, that is the problem. With absolute certainty you believe something that is irrational to belive. Why are you not buddhist, hindu, why dont you worship allah, zeus, thor.
The criminal comment is a fact from statistical investigations made by the UN, crossreferenced over the whole world.
You are as true a christian as all the other christians that also claim that they are true christians, but who also claim that you are NOT a true christian.
@MagnusNyborg But it is YOUR BELIEF that I don't believe in the correct thing. I have personally reviewed all those religions and i saw the fallacy in the scriptures. Only the new and old testaments can i see any truth in. Remember, you're talking to somebody (even though atheists think of people like shit) who believed in science first. I've stayed up late at night playing with virtual evolution using genetic algorithms. And even though i was impressed, I saw the Gray areas very clearly.
@danielkirk1 no, it is my belief that there are more possibilities than you admit, but you cant even admit to there being more possibilities. THAT is why you are limited.
I dont think of people as shit, i think of ignorance as being a shitty position to hold, because it limits not only your understanding, but also limits your possibilities. Being ignorant is not being bliss!
Do you accept gods support of rape as being punishable with 50 shekels and marrying the girl?
@MagnusNyborg How is what i believe limiting in any way? I haven't been depressed for 2 years, no drugs, improved sexual appreciation(T.M.I)... I don't see any limits, that's the beauty of it all :)
Religion is not a shitty position, it is simply a belief. (the right belive i.m.o). Everything that god has done, was for a reason, and has expressed remorse for punishing his creations. The rainbow is a reminder to us that he will never hurt us again, which i love that personally to be honest.
@danielkirk1 because you assume there is a god, and denies the possibilty that there isnt one. That is a clear limiting factor. I dont assume either, and i find there is actual testable repeatable veerifiable knowledge that exists without even considering a god.
Assuming something without evidence IS a shitty position. You will miss out on all other possibilities. Your loss.
@MagnusNyborg I'm not really interested on how 'limited' the factors are. I believe I have done pretty well not to be too 'holy' as we have debated? Consider the limits of both sides fair then. And In my mind I'm not assuming anything, I KNOW. It's not enough for me to just close my eyes and say there is a god, I have personally experienced Jesus, so I know I'm not missing out. In reality YOU ARE. When someone dies, or rejects you, your soul is going to cry out for the lord. God bless you.
@danielkirk1 then you realise that my response is that you should be ashamed of yourself. Not only is your belief not based on reality, you even justify that by 'not being too holy'. I would say, that you are indeed just being the ignorant person you started out to be, and that even when countered on factual basis you choose to remain ignorant. Willfully! I will think for you.
@MagnusNyborg I'm the one that has experienced both sides for 10+ years in my life. Do you even know what a bible looks like? You seem to just base your reasoning's on evidence alone which is unfortunate and narrow minded. Care to write me an essay on the chronology of organisms from the first molecule to human? Since it's so obvious and concrete, please... Show the faith-head how it's done!
@danielkirk1 look at yourself, when presented with scientifcly determined facts, you dont dont question your beliefs, you just stop thinking and revert to ad hominems.
Maybe it is the 6 year old boy inside you who are complaining, ever thought about this possibility?
I dont believe what you do because i think rationally, and what you claim makes no sense. But if you would present real evidence, i would change my beliefs. You however, dont.
@MagnusNyborg I laughed as soon as I saw you replied and the first 3 words... I rolled my eyes and sighed afterwards. What the hell are you on about 6 year old boy 'inside' me??? Keep your problems to yourself. I'm the one living an immoral life, and actually doing something for this fucking world. It's much more effort to be a Christian that an atheist, oh how easy it would be to just regurgitate theories all day to honest good hearted Christians world wide...
@danielkirk1 look at yourself, when presented with evidence that contradicts your belif, you revert back to accusing me for being 6 years old, yet behaving like a 6 year old yourself. Any rational being would reconsider their position at that point, but you dont. I understand this might be hard for you to admit, but it is time you look upon yourself with open eyes, the same way you should look upon reality with open eyes. I am ashamed about you, and so should you be.
@Soveraine It's the notion that this religion teaches people to believe this, and that they don't see anything wrong with that. It's immoral and injustifiable.
@Soveraine Honestly I don't know if you're trolling, stupid, or insane. However I'll just respond to this accordingly. Science calls for no worship people use science all the time, it is independent of any tenant/dogmas. There is no punishment for not listening to science, it is independent of what you stand on and couldn't care less. Morality and science aren't even related. I didn't point that out, I pointed out how religion is like this. Science isn't a religion, it is independent of it.
@strkszone You are being used, as you speak, by your Theocratic Tyrant of Science, to spread scientific shit propaganda, nonsense.
You have no independence or free will!!! You're just a puppet of Science cult. There is no punishment for not listening to Science? You are a filthy liar, and a twat pie. Try disobeying science in everything you do and think, for a month. You will be executed by the second month even starts.
Society worships only Science, as a blind cultist. You are no exception!!!
@Soveraine So tell me nonworshiper and nonconformer of science, do you float since refuting the laws of gravity makes you defy gravity? Please impart your wisdom oh enlightened one!
@strkszone Laws of gravity doesn't exist, you utterly cheap whore.
It was called a theory. And it only happens because of the great physical weight the air above the earth has, and it constantly pushes down on everything here.
If that atmosphere dissappeared or became void, or weightless, there would be no such concept of "gravity" or even weight.
You are a twat pie. Your mother hit you on the head too hard as a baby. Sue her for her breast milk.
@strkszone Also that "law", already appeared long before faggarts like yourself, ever got to blow the giant Totem of (Penis) Science.
You faggots just named it a theory, because apparently you're the only idiots on earth, who didn't realise apples tend to fall to the ground, from their native tree.
Ah! The fervant discovery of apples falling from trees!! Fucking explorers and soviet pioneers you are! NOT>>>>> INSERT SARCASM AND YOUR HUMILIATION.
@Soveraine I find your trolling to be most amusing cunt licker! I beseach your truth as self evident. Your use of scientific reasoning to defy science is in of itself a contradiction of the utmost proportions. You filthy frivolous bicurious whore, you should be flogged and humiliated publically in the name of science! Okay I'm kidding, I'm not as outspoken as you trolls :(
@strkszone This is the typical reaction of one of you mindless cultists who blindly worships Science, as soon as anyone doubts your Dogma.
You just exposed your own fanaticism. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA.
See? I did not need logic to prove your Sciencefaggotry is a cult! All I needed was your help. And you supplied, by showing your own idiocy and blind, suicidal devotion to your Science FAgs.
You are just another gay sheeple in the Herd of Science Faggotry. Go stick a test tube in your intestines...
@Soveraine I dare not disprove your undeniable truths! Teach me your ways!? Tell me what you believe if not science!? Change my undoubting ignorance and enlighten me please!
@Soveraine That in itself is a contradiction by pure logic. Testing everything is in the scientific method. If giving up on science fails to accomodate a belief in of science beint an ultimate evil theocratic dictatorship, then there is no way to follow that belief. And why am I a twat pie!? You're the foreign girl if anyone is a twat pie it must be you! D: Where does your pure logic lead you to!?
@strkszone "Testing" them not scientifically, but reasonably. Use practical logic, and not "theories".
Logically speaking, why should you react like a common cultists trying desperately to cover the Lies of your Religion, as soon as someone calls Science for what it is? A Cult??
Well? Logically, you just proved everything I said below. You're a cultist. Notice your fanatical / extremist fundamentalist reaction just now! Teehee!
@Soveraine Science is all about utilizing logic though. You can test things reasonably with practical logic in science. Theories are tested hypothesises that hold up to falsification. A Theory is the best known reason of why things happen the way they do today. Point to be the lie that's in science and then I will take it under account. Break it down, with evidence and "reasonable" tests. Atheism 0 Atheist Troll: 12. And my reaction was mimicing yours so technically you're the extremist fundy!
there may be a beam in my eye...but i sense anger and arrogance....is that wrong?
what angers you? really? if you are so secure in your beliefs why condemn others for there's and step on their tongues? if you spot it you got it....tease tease tease...where is the real danger here?...i hope you hear your own advice one day...I shall continue to rely on God and remember you in my prayers...I don't hate you...emotionally speaking...I fear you...is that right?
The mindset of Christianity can also be directly linked to the acts of Torture that have been done by Christian's in the name of their God through the past 2,000 years!
The social impacts of this Cult of Death is extremely disturbing.
Hell Real Children have been put in Real Microwaves by Real Christian's!
One such case was from a Christian man that was working on being a Preacher!
Poor guy. Being a christian is such a huge part of his identity that he doesn't dare to take an honest look at it.
If he doesn't believe non-christians deserve eternal damnation then he isn't a christian. The core concept of Christianity is that very issue, we are damned (justly by God), believing in Jesus saves us...that's it.
I have no respect for anyone who considers me deserving of eternal torture, they don't get to play the respect-card, that's simply insulting.
If there is an eternal afterlife, then everyone is going to hell, because after a couple thousand years even the most narcissistic would be screeming for oblivion, no matter the conditions. It's a purile unthought out idea to pacify purile ego's sacred of not existing, they are scared of oblivion. LOL
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LatencyProblem 1 week ago
way to pick on the dumb guy...
videowatcher1000000 1 month ago
of good and evil, and they make many simple choices, that are easy to differentiate good and bad, helping, hurting, working towards good, or working towards bad. I really don't know whether Jeff Dee is going to hell or not, but I know he has the choice over his destiny, choosing whether to work at being good and wholesome towards life, or evil and violent towards life.
PumpedAaron 1 month ago
@PumpedAaron I can kinda sorta agree with what you're saying. The problem is, this isn't actually what the Bible teaches. The Bible doesn't teach "be good and wholesome towards life and you'll get into heaven" the Bible actually teaches to say you're sorry for stuff God says your great-ancestor did, grovel in the dirt like a worm and then live the rest of your life obeying religious authority.
Jesus also gives Hell as the punishment for *thinking* about having sex with somebody.
TheSamuraiGoomba 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from bdwilson1000
@TheSamuraiGoomba No, God doesn't tell you to apologize for the evil deeds your great ancestor committed. He tells you to apologize for the evil deeds YOU yourself committed. You may have done different evil deeds in your life, but that still counts. And I'm sure you've seen firsthand that Christians are FAR from the sort of humiliated people that would "grovel in the dirt like a worm". I bet you have some examples in your mind of the opposite extreme!
PumpedAaron 2 weeks ago
@PumpedAaron Also, Jesus never simply said that you would -surely- go to hell for lusting over someone/thing, (essentially what many people do with porn) but He did state that it was just as much of a sin as actually committing adultry. Its the attitude of the heart that Jesus is getting at, here. If you go and read Jesus' advice, you'd see that He said that someone doing some evil deed was "in danger" of Hell. Not directly going there straight through. As for common sense...
PumpedAaron 2 weeks ago
@TheSamuraiGoomba As for common sense, I'm sure you've heard of the Golden Rule, in the Bible, huh? "Do to others as you would have them do to you" ? And there's this other section in Jesus' life where He says that the laws of the Scriptures can be summarized as "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength," and the second is, "love your neigbor as yourself." So no, actually, I can and should be a Christian who can keep his common sense and be generally
PumpedAaron 2 weeks ago
@PumpedAaron But jesus also said he didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it. It's confusing. If we really can reduce his whole message to those two things, why don't Christians just take out every other page of awful rape, pillage and murder, not to mention threats of eternal hellfire and torture for thought crime, and simply posit the two commandments alone? Atheists would still take issue with loving God, but it would be much better than what the Bible says now.
TheSamuraiGoomba 2 weeks ago
@TheSamuraiGoomba Yes, Jesus -did- come to the Earth to fulfill the Law, and if you took a closer look, you'll notice that this completion actually made the Bible a more wholesome spiritual product! For instance, there are many sections, starting around Matthew 5, I believe, where Jesus would mention an old Law, and Jesus would say, "You have heard that the Law said such and such, but I tell you so and so." For instance, "You have heard that the Law said, "Love your neighbor
PumpedAaron 4 days ago
@TheSamuraiGoomba ... and hate your enemy." But I say "Love you enemies. Bless those who curse you, do good to those who scorn you. For if you love your friends only, what more are you doing than others? Even pagans do that." Jesus takes a similar stance on an old law about murdering, and one about adultry, (which you cited, actually). The point is, Jesus gets at the -heart- of the matter, how we feel on the inside, not just the rituals we go through in our physical life.
PumpedAaron 4 days ago
@TheSamuraiGoomba The pharisees make an argument to Jesus concerning divorce, citing an old law that states that you can divorce shamelessly with a certificate, but Jesus responds "Moses wrote this law because your hearts were hard." Yes, it is true that the Old Testament laws contained cruel punishments for doing, in our age, simple things, like wearing clothes with blends, or eating pork, but logically thinking about it, there must have been a serious risk involved in doing
PumpedAaron 4 days ago
@TheSamuraiGoomba ... these acts. Pigs carried harmful diseases back then, for instance, and they couldn't cook them off as well as we can now. The Apostle Paul also argues that the Deutronical laws and so on served as "seers" and were temporary guides, until Jesus ultimately showed up and ushered in an age of gaining oneness with Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
PumpedAaron 4 days ago
@TheSamuraiGoomba
good. By the way, this is my 4th comment, and I accidently replied to myself on the 2nd comment, so you'll have to scroll around a bit for it. Sorry about that.
PumpedAaron 2 weeks ago
Wow, for a "calm and measured" response, Jeff Dee was pretty damn pissed off to high heaven!! You could see a sort of "angry imprint" on his forehead the whole time. Don't tell me I'm a retarded Christian and imagined this, by the way, I SAW it, scientifically. Anyway, I do believe in Jesus Christ, and no, that DOESN'T mean I believe person x or person y is going to hell. Ultimately, that is a verdict between the Lord Christ, and person x/y/whoever. Atheists and Christians both have their sense
PumpedAaron 1 month ago
And for fuck sakes if this guy really doesnt believe in "God", then why the hell would he be offended by something like "God bless you" or "I'll pray for you" in the first place? Those terms are compliments, whoever said them if hoping for the best for you(even if you dont share their beliefs) and not ALL of them believe that all athiests should "burn in hell". But stupid bullshit like this sure doesnt help.
pricture 1 month ago
Man this shit is stupid. Instead of actually being open minded toward one another and maybe working together to find out the truth about religion(not just Christianity), ppl like these assholes choose to continue insulting whatever little thing they dont like which just sparks up more b.s(like the flame war below) and divides/diludes ppl further.
pricture 1 month ago
I bet the above 2 never actually make a video on calling an actual intelligent and educated Christian like myself. The result would be that they would never put the video out there because it wouldn't have the same brainwashing effect that the media forces on the people in the first place.
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
The guys in the above video are such tools. I doubt these 2 stopped to think about the implications of their own belief system. The bigotry and hate coming out of atheism against the religious is no different then the bigotry and hate that came from religion in ANTIQUITY.
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
The caller starts crying like a little bitch at 4:50. Cry, Christian, cry!
mvanroy 1 month ago
It's the *sentiment* of thinking people deserve hell that Jeff is angry with, not the existence (or lack thereof) of Hell itself.
progrockcoffee 1 month ago
what this caller needs to realize is that "his religion" makes laws, rules & policy's that affect other people's lives in the most harmful of ways... that is what he really needed to be educated on...
freedom1234573 1 month ago
I'm an atheist, but i think Jeff just changes the subject. Maybe the caller doesn't think atheist go to hell, and that's fine. Sometimes we as atheist should relax a little bit.... specially Jeff...
etiennec 1 month ago
he gets all mad over someone wanting him to go to hell when hell is non exixtent to him??? weird guy.
olantern 1 month ago
@olantern
Its the thought that counts, he states later in the video that the simple fact the guy follows a "cult" which beleives that he will be sent to such a horrible place fake or not is wrong.
Its like me saying "unless you join my club you will be beaten and burned for eternity, but you know... its your choice", would you just say "well thats fine with me, thanks for infoming me of that", or would you get quiet insulted and angry?
mrh112 1 month ago
@mrh112 well again you cannot prove hell is such a firey place of torture cause the descriptions relate also to gehenna, a lake of fire used for being the dead bodies . so references to hell most likely mean that place not a literal place of forever punishment. the bible is hard to understand in places.
olantern 1 month ago
@olantern
I have no idea what you are talking about but im sure its got something to do with assuming the bible is fiction not non-fiction.
Hell does not exist, the bibles description of it is delibretly vague like all other text so peope can take what they desire out of it and make their own imgainary hell and heaven.
mrh112 1 month ago
@mrh112 i just say what i believe.
olantern 1 month ago
@olantern
I might beleive in a giant bear living in my wall who happens to be invisible and also speaks french... am I ok to beleive that in the 21st century?
religion is actually a form of dilusional disorder caused by propaganda, inproper upbringing or simple misinformation (brainwashing). the only reason many doctors do not actually testify religion as a disease is because it would class 4 billion people as mentally ill, of which 2 billion belong to pretty violent religions.
mrh112 1 month ago
@mrh112 everything you just said fits an atheist exactly! so who is delusional? now your a doctor too are you? mentally ill. lolllll. now your grasping at straws. your time with me is over too cause most of you must be 12 years old in your thinking. we neither care or acknowledge your non beliefs. the bible even said there would be people like you in the end times. so we are done cause you make no serious claims. you would do better talking to your cousins , the monkeys.
olantern 1 month ago
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@olantern
"the bible even said there would be people like you in the end times. so we are done cause you make no serious claims. you would do better talking to your cousins , the monkeys. "
.... And your telling me your "not" mentally ill.
mrh112 1 month ago
@mrh112 "eligion is actually a form of dilusional disorder caused by propaganda, "
Isn't that funny? improper education and upbringing? Btw, ever since our society has become more liberal we see, increased rates in divorces, underage children having sex, underage girls getting pregnant and getting abortions. In countries like Japan and Sweden, both of which are wealthy, we see some of the world's highest rates of suicide O.o
Should I list more?
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
@EquitesVeritatis
"should I list more O.o"
Ha,Ha,Ha... Wait your actually serious.
USA (worlds highest crime rate in a developed country, highest muder rate of a developed country, highest proportion of prisoners of a developed country, highest number of executions in a developed country. Then we have Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe and NK (spiritual leadership) to name a few, all within the worlds lowest HDI, highest crime rates.
Please, your stupidity is painful
mrh112 1 month ago
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@mrh112 "(worlds highest crime rate in a developed country, highest muder rate of a developed country, highest proportion of prisoners of a developed country, highest number of executions in a developed country."
Actually you forgot Brazil, 220 million, mostly from 25 million living in large areas like Sao Paulo. Think poverty has anything to do with it? 1 in 3 Americans are either unemployed or working poor. But that must be religion's fault eh?
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
@mrh112 As for you calling me stupid, your child like mentality never ceases to amaze. Iran even now, being boycotted by the US. Afghanistan, Pakistan countries that were fucked over by the UK, (in much the same way UK brought foreign workers of conflicting religions into Bahrain to "de-Iranize" the population).
What about Russia and countries still recovering from their anti-religious communist regime? :)
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
@EquitesVeritatis
right... the old "soviets were atheist" thing...
How many atheist states are there in the world...now? well, we have France, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Japan, South Korea, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, to name a few, wait they are all... nice places to live O.o
Bringing up the soviet union is like me bringing up Nazi germany and labeling all Christians based on its actions, you must be a Nazi being Religious I assume?
mrh112 1 month ago
@mrh112 LOL oh really? So you are telling me that Nazi's and there war was based on religion?
Typical white fail. Google the following, "Judea Declares War on Germany" That happened in 1933, the first act of war before Hitler was in power.
Yes COMMUNISM was the repression of the individual and the repression of religion. Many countries like Belarus, Ukraine, Poland etc are still reeling from communism.
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
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@EquitesVeritatis "Judea Declares War on Germany" was about Jews boycotting German goods because of German antisemitism. How does that refute mrh112's point? It doesn't change the fact that the Nazis were Christian (see "Nazi racial ideology was religious, creationist and opposed to Darwinism" by Coel Hellier).
"I bet the above 2 never actually make a video on calling an actual intelligent and educated Christian like myself. "
It's a call-in show, so why don't you call in?
kissfan7 1 month ago
@mrh112 Secondly as for Canada being a nice place to live. The same as whats happening in many other countries. Eg we have things like racial quote to ensure the diversity of people being hired. Eg 50% of people in a company should be visible minorities.
ICICI is an Indian bank in Canada and has MAJORITY Indians as employees, therefore despite discriminating, it still satisfies the law of racial quota.
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
@mrh112 OH btw, you mention Japan. Did you know that Japan killed upwards of 22 million Chinese by the end of WW2 (where only 56 were released from their war camps). And never mind the millions of other Asians they killed. But know how nice they are? they do not acknowledge they committed any war crimes :)
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
@EquitesVeritatis
You are aware that nazi germany killed over 70 million as a result of WW2, and that Iran does not acknowledge their killings of Jews as a war crime.
So much for nice religion :)
mrh112 1 month ago
@mrh112 "You are aware that nazi germany killed over 70 million as a result of WW2, and that Iran does not acknowledge their killings of Jews as a war crime.
So much for nice religion :)"
Jews started the war. Google "Judea Declares War on Germany" which happened in 1933.
Any good historian well tell you not to fully believe any account written in a good guy/bad guy context.
Btw 70 million? Are you for real? try 11.3 million total, educate yourself :P
EquitesVeritatis 1 month ago
@EquitesVeritatis
Nope... 70 million people died as a result of ww2, where the hell did you get 11 million from?, I presume the death camps.
And no... Hitler started WW2 to create "living space" for german people and a world wide eradication of Jews starting when he invaded Poland.
"Jews started the war. Google "Judea Declares War on Germany" which happened in 1933."- This is why I dont like arguing with Religious people.
mrh112 1 month ago
@mrh112 burning
olantern 1 month ago
@elibeth121 Even if god does exist, it turns god from a myth to a tyrant. I can't worship a god who says rape victims should marry their rapist, that slavery is ok, that directs genocide, who floods the entire earth, who kills guys for picking up sticks on the sabbath, and who says to kill unbelievers and thinks i should be tortured forever for not kissing his ass. It's all in the bible. The best way to deconversion is reading the bible.
o0Evangelion20140o 1 month ago
If the presenter (who badly needs anger management) had let the caller say what he believes it would have emerged that he does not actually believe in eternal torment. Not all Christians buy the whole package - which the caller tried to say but was not allowed to. I'm an atheist by the way.
mikelheron20 1 month ago
"If you told me that I believe to be imprisoned in life, to resent your attitude to me." PS it is not us that puts you in hell it is God, not us, God. If you deserve to go to hell dude, then you deserve to go to hell.
elibeth121 1 month ago
@elibeth121 The fact remains that you still have to believe we deserve to go to Hell if you are a true Christian/Catholic.
1Lanavis1 1 month ago in playlist More videos from bdwilson1000
@1Lanavis1 Nope, Hell still exists whether you believe or not and so does God.
elibeth121 1 month ago
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@elibeth121 You didn't respond to my response. All you vomited out was a non sequitur. I said that you "have to believe we deserve to go to Hell if you are a true Christian/Catholic", which since you purposely ignored, I assume that this is true. Although I don't believe in a god or a hell, I did not state that in my previous response.
1Lanavis1 1 month ago
I'm about to say something that has absolutely nothing to do with religion or logic...
THAT CALLER SOUNDS LIKE HERCULE.
joegt123 2 months ago
Lovely. I favor this type of response to christianity.
Oblivionic 2 months ago
When people avoid answering any questions I mostly put that down to them knowing its bullshit but still wanting to make others and oneself believe in the bullshit.
Tzimnewman3 2 months ago
@ the 4:50 mark, Jeff's dead eyes the man looks like a great white shark lol
Mike12784 2 months ago
"I dont think they deserve to get killed..." "then stop killing them , WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?" omg this is fucking hilarious because everything this guy is saying is true but he's being extremely blunt about it. i could't stop laughing through the entire video.
Dewheart9221 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
Jeff is right, but he takes away from the message when he bites the callers head off.
DuskOnVega 2 months ago
@DuskOnVega Yeah, he's a dick. It's guys like him(and Christians lol) that give Atheists a bad name.
LerkurlianTamer 2 months ago
Drama induced due to the caller being a typical "Duh Uh Um" ... Answer the question or have at least something to say with authority or conviction.... This was like bass fishing and getting hooked on a log. "Duh Uh Um" ... Waste of time caller!
NoGuyComesClose 2 months ago
I'm 100% Atheist but this guy is seriously just an asshole
PaulPopsicles 2 months ago
@PaulPopsicles But also 100% right.
ben9345 2 months ago
@PaulPopsicles how is he an asshole??
linkszxx 2 months ago
Christians, they love to talk about how loving, dutiful and compassionate they are, yet I have yet to meet ONE who does not practice hypocrisy to the highest degree. They practice "selective morality". What they like, they cling to and shove down other's throats; what they don't like, they ignore vehemently. That which is palatable and acceptable is supposedly applicable to all; while that which is obnoxious, inconvenient, or self-denying is only applicable to those addressed 2,000 years ago.
FcukH8 2 months ago
I think the caller should speak slower and less eloquently, it's too quick and well constructed for my small atheist mind
darkdexou 2 months ago 2
Jeff is awesome!
TheLordHodne 2 months ago
But we're not trying to convert anybody!
ChipArgyle 2 months ago
I met a guy in wyoming that said he wanted to kill all the wolves in the world because they eat the deer he hunts! Thats fucking retarded. Saying he has more right to eat them than they do? I think there should be a hunter hunting season that overlaps all other hunting seasons! While theyre all killing their ducks and their deer and whatever, I CAN KILL THEM! I know this has nothing to do with religion but the hunting comment made me think about it.
kottonklown 2 months ago
Was this guy breaking down in the middle of the video or was was he just thinking jeff was funny? Also, is that the crew laughing in the background?
boolengleng 2 months ago
@tommyk1214 Great point :)
SoFlySoAwesome 2 months ago
What if you are not taught about God (any of religions) and you go to hell because you do not believe in God, because you were not taught or enlightened?
SoFlySoAwesome 2 months ago
@SoFlySoAwesome What if you are taught about a god. And you spend your life as a pious person, but you go to hell anyway because you were taught the wrong god?
How do you decide which religion to bet your life on?
tommyk1214 2 months ago
This caller sounds like a fucking troll. How can you not know what happens to atheist when they die if you are indeed a Christian? I think he's a troll. He just pretends to be stupid and tries to get people mad. Ugh...waste of time. Caller, if you are reading this comment, that was very immature of you. Grow up ok?
Casshyr 2 months ago
this goes to the caller.
if you don't give a damn, then why the fuck did you call?
Tr1pTr0p 2 months ago
Yes...but how are you pronouncing that? That's the point.
Ellie8969 2 months ago
I don't think Jeff assessed the fact that people don't choose what they believe. They either do or don't. The caller might very well have said 'well you mean I never considered that I could believe something else' or 'the hunter just needs meat out of necessity, not so much that they need to die'.
Jeff covered his ass pretty well explaining himself saying it was an appeal to emotion after the call though so I forgive.
BeBoBli 3 months ago
@BeBoBli I personally believe people DO choose their beliefs. I mean, when Dawkins talks about how he knows colleagues who are WELL AWARE of all the vidence for evolution and an old earth and all that, yet stil lchoose to believe Scripture is 100% true and infallible ANYWAY...that's damning evidence that it's about choice, not just convincing.
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi Don't you think that their rejection of evidence and devotion to scripture etc is more down to brainwashing than choice? I don't think we choose our beliefs...I've certainly never decided not to believe in a god. I just don't, and never have.
Ellie8969 2 months ago
@Ellie8969 You've decided that holding the position of not believing in god is the more reasonable position to hold in the face of there not beig any compelling evidence to believe.
Meanwhile philosophers like Plantinga have devised ways to justify that not having evidence ISN'T a plausible reason to not believe, and in fact they are justified in believing even if there is none.
To me, it seems obvious that it's about choice.
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi I see where you're coming from, but I don't think you're right. Whatever your position, could you simply change your mind tomorrow and start believing something else? I couldn't. I could read the bible, pray, go to church, do all the right things - but if I didn't believe, that would be that. And quoting dead philosophers is rather a lame debating point. No philosopher has the final word on anything.
Ellie8969 2 months ago
@Ellie8969 ...I'm not quoting philosphers as a talking point, I'm using Plantinga as an example of someone who has chosen the position that no matter what, even if there is absolutely no evidence of god whatsoever, he believes he is still justified in believing in god, whereas you and I are people who say that if there is no evidence, belief ISNT justified. This methodology and choice of ratioanilzation and choice of beliefs are, in my view, certainly a choice.
BigLundi 2 months ago
@BigLundi But what comes first? The belief or the rationalisation (sp?) for it? I think the belief comes first, and then, when no evidence emerges to show that the belief is correct, then comes the: "But who needs evidence...we have faith"! Belief is not a choice, which is the main reason why Pascal's Wager is such a fail. Plantinga was (like many people) attempting to justify the belief he (or others) already held in the absence of evidence.
Ellie8969 2 months ago
@Ellie8969 To YOU AND ME, Pascal's Wager fails. But there are those who believe it's sufficient reason to believe in God, and indeed I've MET those people. I've pointed out WHY it fails, and they have siply shook their heads and said, "I understand but I prefer to believe anyway, just in case."
These people WANt to believe what they do, so they do, and they come up with reasons to make it seem reasonable if they care.
BigLundi 2 months ago
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@Ellie8969 To YOU AND ME, Pascal's Wager fails. But there are those who believe it's sufficient reason to believe in God, and indeed I've MET those people. I've pointed out WHY it fails, and they have siply shook their heads and said, "I understand but I prefer to believe anyway, just in case."
These people WANt to believe what they do, so they do, and they come up with reasons to make it seem reasonable if they care.
BigLundi 2 months ago
@Ellie8969 Ellie, are you poking Christians again? ;D
TheGeneralCritic 2 months ago
@TheGeneralCritic :-) Don't think this chap is a Christian - just having an interesting little discourse on whether we choose our beliefs. He says yes, I say no. What say you?
Ellie8969 2 months ago
@Ellie8969 Potato.
TheGeneralCritic 2 months ago
It's not because they are afraid of hell. It's because he is fine with them going to hell. If anyone didn't understand that, that's why its offensive. Its a huge group of people that is completely fine with us being in excruciating unending pain. It doesn't matter that we don't think it will happen. They think it will. How is that not offensive?
PirateMonkeyFilmz 3 months ago
I kind of get where Jeff's coming from though. The fact that the caller is laughing about his cult's sentiments of eternal torture, especially to someone that he doesn't believe even deserves it, is scary.
leighalison1983 3 months ago
i was just as amused as the theist caller xDDD.. <3 Jeff
Djsouthpaw1987 3 months ago
this is the first time I see a clip from AE where a Christian caller does better than a host. Seriously Jeff, that was weak. The "I am sooo offended" pose was laughable when compared to relaxed reactions and chuckling of the caller.
najmundrzejszy 3 months ago
he mad.
enuvune 3 months ago
i'm an athiest, but i think that jeff was being a "little" mean this episode
the guy didn't evan say anything bad
McSmYtHuRs 3 months ago
@McSmYtHuRs
That's not the point. Jeff wasn't being mean, he was merely stating the truth.
The viewer is, by definition of his beliefs, in the opinion that Jeff deserves to be tortured for eternity. He may not think that that torture is RIGHT, yet he worships a god that decrees that such torture is JUST and RIGHT. Therefore, his religious status is in agreement with the statement that "My god says you MUST be tortured for eternity because you doubt my contradictory holy book!"
ReverendLondo 3 months ago
Chill Jeff.
yatter1 3 months ago
they should have asked him this "if i walked up to you on the street and told you that if you do not believe bart simpson is your grandfather and that you should eat nothing but strawberry ice cream for a week, then you and your family deserves to be sodomized with a hockey stick, would you think that is right?"
And not only are you told this, you hear this at least once a day, from different people.
would you start getting offended when people say "your making your kids get sodomized" ??
V0nAnglesmith 3 months ago
The critical point is not that Jeff doesn't believe he'll burn in hell, idiot caller, that's irrelevant. What's relevant is that YOU DO believe it. THAT is what is offensive!
GOD how blind and stupid ARE these people?
leisulin 3 months ago
@leisulin They are gonna Burn in Hell if they do not accept Christ as their saviour, and they do deserve it because Christ is the Only way and they choose to reject him so therefore they deserve to fry in Hell, but i am going to Hevean because i accepted Jesus into my Heart..
romans52345 3 months ago
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@romans52345
You are one sick fuck.
leisulin 3 months ago
@romans52345
You deserve to be devoured by Loki's daughter Hel for not accepting Odin as your lord and savior, and you may face redemption if only you swear your sword to Thor in the final battle of Ragnarok.
If that sounds silly to you, really think about what, exactly, you just typed.
ReverendLondo 3 months ago
@ReverendLondo That's why i typed it because it does sound silly just as evrything about Christanity is Silly, what are your thoughts on Religon??
romans52345 3 months ago
Everytime I hear "tortured forever", I kinda picture pinkie pie popping up going "fooooreeeeever"
dreamponyshire 3 months ago
@dreamponyshire, oh Dear god, lol x-)
Zephyrrix 3 months ago
4'49'' close up of the eyes of a smart guy who knows where it's at..
whyteay 3 months ago
True Christians feel depressed for sinners, specially the ones we attach to from day to day life. It is unfair to say CHRISTIANS offend you, because it's OUR choice to believe in what we want. How horrible can you be to be offended over someone else's beliefs?
If you didn't believe in the bible in the first place, you simply wouldn't care nor get offended. Unless we walk right up to you and shout "you're going to hell!" only then should you be offended.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 im not offended by christian beliefs, i merely feel sorry for them. I am however strongly against the negative influense they sometimes try to impose on the real world. Religion is like wanking, do it at home, alone or with fellow wankers, and not in public.
However, if you do have evidence that does support your case, then present it and expect the evidence to be scrutinized. And if that evidence is flawed, expect to be called upon it.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg Why do you feel sorry for Christians? Spare your sympathy please, us christians are rewarded knowing we make the lowly feel good, and the angry feel calm. I will not contain god like a sexual immoral activity, don't be disgusting.
If you want evidence so much, go to a goverment building and ask for secret files about ufos.
Evidence evidence evidence evidence evidence evidence.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 i feel sorry for anyone who believe something without evidence, because soo does mental patients. I also feel sorry for them. Reality is more important than fantasy, wouldnt you agree? How do you distinguish them apart?
Fantasy fantasy fantasy fantasy supposition fantasy fantasy. This has to stop.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg Why equate me to mental patients? Is rudeness hand in hand with evidence? Fantasy is more important then reality, because we couldn't come up with a reality without first a fantasy :)
sort of Like how Richard Dawkins fantasized making money off miserable prunes *cough*.
Right now I fantasize a world without arrogant jerkoff's, it's nice! Got a theory for families dieing of starvation? thought not.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 i didnt, but clearly you did. I said I am just as sorry for any fantasy. If it is not a fantasy, then you need to provide some evidence.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg nononono lol. "because soo does mental patients" - Just be honest and stop it. Don't insult me then tell me you aren't insulting me. Mental patients are irrelevant (got evidence that they aren't to your analogy?).
I've helped mental patients that have so much heart and knowledge that YES... EVEN I WISH I HAD. The evidence? The experience i have while i do it. The only fantasy here is this self replicating theory babble(no offense).
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 it is called analogy, and you made the connection, not I. I only conclude that there is an analogy, you made the connection back to yourself.
Perhaps you are realising you are on a thin ground?!
Live being selfreplicating is a scientic fact, if you ignore that you are in fact delusional. Wishfull thinking on your part does not count as evidence, sorry.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg Oh what an easy response... Thin ground? You wish buddy! Go dig up the evidence yourself ffs.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 the wishfull thinking is only on your part. Being ignorant is only an excuse according to you god, not in a modern civilization.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg No need to wish, otherwise i would be agnostic. Not sure what the last jive was about, but good for you computer chip boy.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 i hear you. You want to remain ignorant in order to fit in a god in the picture. Your choice.
But is that a good thing? Can it be that you are desperately trying to fend off your own insecurities? I believe this is a possibility.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg "You want to remain ignorant in order to fit in a god in the picture"- let this sentence argue with itself. God is a good thing. If i had one bit of insecurity, I'm not truly a Christian. I myself have gotten amazing turns in my life that science could never give me in billions of years. The evidence? What i experienced! And if what i experienced wasn't real... I wouldn't be able to believe anything.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 "If i had one bit of insecurity, I'm not truly a Christian"
That is the problem, a rational being would have insecurities about this, as evidence keeps piling up that the bible is not accurate, that christians are not good people (christians have higher chriminal rates, higher abuse rates, higher teen pregnancy rates etc), and the fact that other religions make the same claims you do, yet completely contradicts you. You can not all be right, but you can all be wrong.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg I laughed at this. If I believed in god WITH insecurity, THEN would I be irrational. BUT because what i have experienced is my EVIDENCE(woo word of the day) that sort of implies you're the irrational one, regardless on your quest for evidence. That criminal rate comment was pure bullshit. And besides, if they were TRUE Christians i assure you it would be the other way around. I am all right, because you have yet to prove me wrong. And good luck because the best of you haven't.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 as i said, that is the problem. With absolute certainty you believe something that is irrational to belive. Why are you not buddhist, hindu, why dont you worship allah, zeus, thor.
The criminal comment is a fact from statistical investigations made by the UN, crossreferenced over the whole world.
You are as true a christian as all the other christians that also claim that they are true christians, but who also claim that you are NOT a true christian.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg But it is YOUR BELIEF that I don't believe in the correct thing. I have personally reviewed all those religions and i saw the fallacy in the scriptures. Only the new and old testaments can i see any truth in. Remember, you're talking to somebody (even though atheists think of people like shit) who believed in science first. I've stayed up late at night playing with virtual evolution using genetic algorithms. And even though i was impressed, I saw the Gray areas very clearly.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 no, it is my belief that there are more possibilities than you admit, but you cant even admit to there being more possibilities. THAT is why you are limited.
I dont think of people as shit, i think of ignorance as being a shitty position to hold, because it limits not only your understanding, but also limits your possibilities. Being ignorant is not being bliss!
Do you accept gods support of rape as being punishable with 50 shekels and marrying the girl?
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg How is what i believe limiting in any way? I haven't been depressed for 2 years, no drugs, improved sexual appreciation(T.M.I)... I don't see any limits, that's the beauty of it all :)
Religion is not a shitty position, it is simply a belief. (the right belive i.m.o). Everything that god has done, was for a reason, and has expressed remorse for punishing his creations. The rainbow is a reminder to us that he will never hurt us again, which i love that personally to be honest.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 because you assume there is a god, and denies the possibilty that there isnt one. That is a clear limiting factor. I dont assume either, and i find there is actual testable repeatable veerifiable knowledge that exists without even considering a god.
Assuming something without evidence IS a shitty position. You will miss out on all other possibilities. Your loss.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg I'm not really interested on how 'limited' the factors are. I believe I have done pretty well not to be too 'holy' as we have debated? Consider the limits of both sides fair then. And In my mind I'm not assuming anything, I KNOW. It's not enough for me to just close my eyes and say there is a god, I have personally experienced Jesus, so I know I'm not missing out. In reality YOU ARE. When someone dies, or rejects you, your soul is going to cry out for the lord. God bless you.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 then you realise that my response is that you should be ashamed of yourself. Not only is your belief not based on reality, you even justify that by 'not being too holy'. I would say, that you are indeed just being the ignorant person you started out to be, and that even when countered on factual basis you choose to remain ignorant. Willfully! I will think for you.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg I'm the one that has experienced both sides for 10+ years in my life. Do you even know what a bible looks like? You seem to just base your reasoning's on evidence alone which is unfortunate and narrow minded. Care to write me an essay on the chronology of organisms from the first molecule to human? Since it's so obvious and concrete, please... Show the faith-head how it's done!
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 fine, your life is your life.
But deep inside, i believe you know the reality... And you SHOULD be ashamed.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg Deep down inside you're a 6 year old with a tantrum for anybody who doesn't believe what you do.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 look at yourself, when presented with scientifcly determined facts, you dont dont question your beliefs, you just stop thinking and revert to ad hominems.
Maybe it is the 6 year old boy inside you who are complaining, ever thought about this possibility?
I dont believe what you do because i think rationally, and what you claim makes no sense. But if you would present real evidence, i would change my beliefs. You however, dont.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@MagnusNyborg I laughed as soon as I saw you replied and the first 3 words... I rolled my eyes and sighed afterwards. What the hell are you on about 6 year old boy 'inside' me??? Keep your problems to yourself. I'm the one living an immoral life, and actually doing something for this fucking world. It's much more effort to be a Christian that an atheist, oh how easy it would be to just regurgitate theories all day to honest good hearted Christians world wide...
danielkirk1 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 look at yourself, when presented with evidence that contradicts your belif, you revert back to accusing me for being 6 years old, yet behaving like a 6 year old yourself. Any rational being would reconsider their position at that point, but you dont. I understand this might be hard for you to admit, but it is time you look upon yourself with open eyes, the same way you should look upon reality with open eyes. I am ashamed about you, and so should you be.
MagnusNyborg 3 months ago
@danielkirk1 Moral i mean lol.
danielkirk1 3 months ago
The atheists here are very masochistic. They just LOVE hearing how they will be tortured forever ETC.
HAHAHAH Atheists are just masochistic. They want to be hurt, they even Beg for it!
Wow.
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Austin redneck is right. Why are these Atheist sycophants bothered by a fictitious superstition of the bronze age, as they say about it?
Evil cult? This world is Hell enough. Atheists suffer here, tortured by christians. This is proof of Hell, and that this world is the Christian Hell.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine It's the notion that this religion teaches people to believe this, and that they don't see anything wrong with that. It's immoral and injustifiable.
strkszone 4 months ago
@strkszone Yes, Science is a religion that mindwashes fools to worship it and believe in it's Dogmas, and they don't see anything wrong with that.
It is immoral and unjustifiable. Good job for pointing that out. Science is a theocratic Dictatorship.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine Honestly I don't know if you're trolling, stupid, or insane. However I'll just respond to this accordingly. Science calls for no worship people use science all the time, it is independent of any tenant/dogmas. There is no punishment for not listening to science, it is independent of what you stand on and couldn't care less. Morality and science aren't even related. I didn't point that out, I pointed out how religion is like this. Science isn't a religion, it is independent of it.
strkszone 4 months ago
@strkszone Dear piece of missaborted fetus.
Try not believing in anything science vomits, then tell me you're still a cherished slave / member of any community.
All fear Science and Obey it. It is the worst dictatorship of theocratic levels, unchallanged by any other religions or faith.
Science preaches it's smutty filthy Dogma everywhere including in schools and homes to influencable children, or utterly useless cows like yourself.
Don't be a twat pie, WAKE UP!! SCIENCE IS EVIL RELIGION!!
Soveraine 4 months ago
@strkszone You are being used, as you speak, by your Theocratic Tyrant of Science, to spread scientific shit propaganda, nonsense.
You have no independence or free will!!! You're just a puppet of Science cult. There is no punishment for not listening to Science? You are a filthy liar, and a twat pie. Try disobeying science in everything you do and think, for a month. You will be executed by the second month even starts.
Society worships only Science, as a blind cultist. You are no exception!!!
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine So tell me nonworshiper and nonconformer of science, do you float since refuting the laws of gravity makes you defy gravity? Please impart your wisdom oh enlightened one!
strkszone 4 months ago
@strkszone Laws of gravity doesn't exist, you utterly cheap whore.
It was called a theory. And it only happens because of the great physical weight the air above the earth has, and it constantly pushes down on everything here.
If that atmosphere dissappeared or became void, or weightless, there would be no such concept of "gravity" or even weight.
You are a twat pie. Your mother hit you on the head too hard as a baby. Sue her for her breast milk.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@strkszone Also that "law", already appeared long before faggarts like yourself, ever got to blow the giant Totem of (Penis) Science.
You faggots just named it a theory, because apparently you're the only idiots on earth, who didn't realise apples tend to fall to the ground, from their native tree.
Ah! The fervant discovery of apples falling from trees!! Fucking explorers and soviet pioneers you are! NOT>>>>> INSERT SARCASM AND YOUR HUMILIATION.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine I find your trolling to be most amusing cunt licker! I beseach your truth as self evident. Your use of scientific reasoning to defy science is in of itself a contradiction of the utmost proportions. You filthy frivolous bicurious whore, you should be flogged and humiliated publically in the name of science! Okay I'm kidding, I'm not as outspoken as you trolls :(
strkszone 4 months ago
@strkszone This is the typical reaction of one of you mindless cultists who blindly worships Science, as soon as anyone doubts your Dogma.
You just exposed your own fanaticism. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA.
See? I did not need logic to prove your Sciencefaggotry is a cult! All I needed was your help. And you supplied, by showing your own idiocy and blind, suicidal devotion to your Science FAgs.
You are just another gay sheeple in the Herd of Science Faggotry. Go stick a test tube in your intestines...
Soveraine 4 months ago
@strkszone Morality is real, while Science is a false religion.
OF COURSE THEY AREN'T EVEN RELATED!! They never, ever were. Never ever everest est!!
Science is 80% Dogma, 20% Superstition, 100% LIES.
Science is the original Evil Religion Theocratic Dictatorship. Prove otherwise, you lying curr. I dare you!
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine I dare not disprove your undeniable truths! Teach me your ways!? Tell me what you believe if not science!? Change my undoubting ignorance and enlighten me please!
strkszone 4 months ago
@strkszone Oh so you wish to betray Science?..........
You are too weak, if you do so, your fellow cultists and ScienceFags will eat your for breakfast, or murder you in one of their experiments.
First you must prove yourself. You already failed, by giving up on Science so easily.
You think you require a path or "ways" or "belief" to live? Then you don't deserve to live, little twat pie!
Life is not about paths, ways or beliefs. If you are ignorant use pure logic to test everything.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine That in itself is a contradiction by pure logic. Testing everything is in the scientific method. If giving up on science fails to accomodate a belief in of science beint an ultimate evil theocratic dictatorship, then there is no way to follow that belief. And why am I a twat pie!? You're the foreign girl if anyone is a twat pie it must be you! D: Where does your pure logic lead you to!?
strkszone 4 months ago
@strkszone "Testing" them not scientifically, but reasonably. Use practical logic, and not "theories".
Logically speaking, why should you react like a common cultists trying desperately to cover the Lies of your Religion, as soon as someone calls Science for what it is? A Cult??
Well? Logically, you just proved everything I said below. You're a cultist. Notice your fanatical / extremist fundamentalist reaction just now! Teehee!
Atheism 0 Me 12.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine Science is all about utilizing logic though. You can test things reasonably with practical logic in science. Theories are tested hypothesises that hold up to falsification. A Theory is the best known reason of why things happen the way they do today. Point to be the lie that's in science and then I will take it under account. Break it down, with evidence and "reasonable" tests. Atheism 0 Atheist Troll: 12. And my reaction was mimicing yours so technically you're the extremist fundy!
strkszone 4 months ago
@strkszone Copy Paste bullshit.
You must be getting desperate now!! You sound gayer and gayer. Go cry on the lap of your jewish husband.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@strkszone You have no clue what logic is or isn't.
You're just a Science fag / geek loser, who worships Einstein and masturbates furiously to Darwin, while praising turks with your jewish mouth.
You cannot use logic. You only mimic like a clown, or parrot. Are you a parrot? Is that what you are, parrot?
Polly wants a cock? Good job, go get some BBC. Brown Bloated Chimp.
Soveraine 4 months ago
@Soveraine I am stunned speechless. Touche madame troll, touche.
strkszone 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Now kindly fuck off you faggot bitch.
Soveraine 4 months ago
there may be a beam in my eye...but i sense anger and arrogance....is that wrong?
what angers you? really? if you are so secure in your beliefs why condemn others for there's and step on their tongues? if you spot it you got it....tease tease tease...where is the real danger here?...i hope you hear your own advice one day...I shall continue to rely on God and remember you in my prayers...I don't hate you...emotionally speaking...I fear you...is that right?
marshman1405 4 months ago
The mindset of Christianity can also be directly linked to the acts of Torture that have been done by Christian's in the name of their God through the past 2,000 years!
The social impacts of this Cult of Death is extremely disturbing.
Hell Real Children have been put in Real Microwaves by Real Christian's!
One such case was from a Christian man that was working on being a Preacher!
This is what this sick mindset directly causes!
This is why it Must be opposed!
MrGoodNKinky 4 months ago
Put another way: "Why do people who think you should burn for ever offend you?"
crapatev 4 months ago
The caller himself called his own beliefs "mythology". somebody buy him a dictionary
EmperorSmith 4 months ago
Poor guy. Being a christian is such a huge part of his identity that he doesn't dare to take an honest look at it.
If he doesn't believe non-christians deserve eternal damnation then he isn't a christian. The core concept of Christianity is that very issue, we are damned (justly by God), believing in Jesus saves us...that's it.
I have no respect for anyone who considers me deserving of eternal torture, they don't get to play the respect-card, that's simply insulting.
OddityDK 5 months ago
If there is an eternal afterlife, then everyone is going to hell, because after a couple thousand years even the most narcissistic would be screeming for oblivion, no matter the conditions. It's a purile unthought out idea to pacify purile ego's sacred of not existing, they are scared of oblivion. LOL
Valthepixie 5 months ago
I don't think this host is as dynamic or good at making a point as say Hitchens. I wish he was better.
MsTheBow 5 months ago
fuck that guy on the left.. the wierd headed fuck
rsmsbennett 5 months ago
I wouldn't exactly call this response calm.
THEHAR0LD 6 months ago
@THEHAR0LD That would be sarcasm.
ThePitofSidLord 6 months ago
@ThePitofSidLord Oh, in hindsight it seems obvious.
THEHAR0LD 6 months ago