King of the Paupers: Big Lie of Economics: Inflationgate hides Shift B Inflation

[kingofthepaupers]

Jct: I've always Douglas's analysis that accepted that when the problem is that we only have Principal but we all owe Principal + Interest, only P/(P+I) survive. For all to survive, there are two solutions, the Social Credit solution of adding money to the Numerator to balance the equation and the Sociable Credit solution of getting rid of the interest in the Denominator to balance the equation. Social "debt-free" Credit and Sociable "interest-free" Credit both work but i=0 means no balancing.

[oldickeastman]

I see you have something here, but I do not fully understand it yet. Does high interest cause inflation of prices (not of money in circulation) because the foreclosures shrink the flow of economic pie? I see the problem of the interest that must be paid on top of principal - when such interest was not created. I see foreclosure inevitable. I see that injecting the eleventh dollar cover interest prevents deflation of money in circulation. What is your view of social credit - print the diff

[Castle3179]

Is there also deflation shift B?

[kingofthepaupers]

@Castle3179 Is there also deflation shift B?

Jct: Shift A inflation is more money chasing the goods. (getting less)

Shift B inflation is same money chasing less goods. (getting less)

I guess:

Shift A deflation is less money chasing the goods (getting more)

Shift B deflation is same money chasing more goods (getting more because someone snuck extra collateral into the cage. Why the cashiers wouldn't just keep it..

[Castle3179]

@kingofthepaupers Well if the government decided to hire pirates to steal collateral from foreigners that could be used to cause shift B deflation if injected into the monetary system properly and if the goverment didn't lose more in the process. Or would this not work. I don't support theft.

[Prinnycakes]

Actually "mortgage" means "pledge to forfeit something of value if a debt is not repaid on the promise of my life". Yes it is a "death pledge" but has nothing to do with gambling. It is essentially saying you promise to forfeit something if you cannot repay your debt until the day that you die, at which point you are released from obligation. It also means that at the point that the debt is paid off, the property is "dead" to the lender and they have no further rights to it.

[rustyscrapper]

shit never mind didnt listen to the last 30 seconds before posting. You cant print money bro. You can create it by producing something, If you mean create more money by creating more goods and backing the money with the new goods then your fine.

[kingofthepaupers]

@rustyscrapper create more money by creating more goods and backing the money with the new goods

Jct: Just like a good poker cashier accepts more goods to back up the new chips issued. Yes. You've got it. But the riddle is how they make the chips lose their value if they're not issuing more chips?

[kingofthepaupers]

Jct: So now that we know we're both talking about poker chips backed up by our work, the question is only: what unit of account should we use? US dollars, gold, or an Hour of volunteer labor? I'm already using a P2P UNILETS timebank account at my facebook info page and uniset.htm page at my home page shows you how you can too.

[kingofthepaupers]

@rustyscrapper You cant print money bro. You can create it by producing something,

Jct: Producing something doesn't create money. Giving the bank an IOU promising to produce something and sell it to pay back the debt lets the bank create money and lend it to you.

"If you mean create more money by creating more goods and backing the money with the new goods then your fine."

Jct: Bingo, just like poker chips.

[rustyscrapper]

someone make this guy a professor right now.

[kingofthepaupers]

@rustyscrapper make this guy a professor

Jct: Thanks. It means you've seen the other possible shift, not only the taught "up over here" but the not taught "down over there."

[charronfamilyconnect]

Hey John, I have been dreaming up of some system similiar to your poker chips(minus the house only wins scam). But the problem I see with chips is how do you prevent counterfeit of your chips? I like the idea of time bank, but I dont think it has to be a physical chip. Maybe just a credit system(digits on a screen) that is managed in a way the prevents abuse. Have you ever approached any city officials or politicians about your idea or an offshoot of it?

[kingofthepaupers]

@charronfamilyconnect If there were a real problem, we could use tallies, popsicle sticks split in two, one half the tally, the other half the stub its wood grain had to tally with. Or computer credits are completely uncorruptible. But since no one has an incentive to steal when they can borrow interest-free, counterfeiting isn't something I'd worry too much about once the system is global, only while small and new where the banksters can slow them down, like the Creditos in Argentina.

[charronfamilyconnect]

@kingofthepaupers Have you seen BStill's "The secret of oz"

[kingofthepaupers]

@charronfamilyconnect BStill's "The secret of oz"

Jct: Yes, pretty good except they think we have too much money causing Shift A inflation and don't know about Shift B inflation. How can one convince them that printing money fights inflation?

[charronfamilyconnect]

@kingofthepaupers I agree with you, and I think time banking is the future. Not sure if we really even need poker chips that could easily be counterfeit however.

[kingofthepaupers]

@charronfamilyconnect time banking is the future. Not sure if we really even need poker chips that could easily be counterfeit however.

Jct: When everyone can borrow interest-free, what kind of sick deviant would need to counterfeit?

[charronfamilyconnect]

To me there isn't such thing as a free lunch. To me money is a token of exchange, its a storage of value, its a representation of someone energy, labour, and time. Thats all. Money should be freely created when someone produces. It shouldn't be an instrument of control that it is today. For ex. we need to build better roads,hospitals, bridges in our city, why should we borrow from bankers? Why can't we build our own roads and hospitals and pay people who do the producing. Money is not a handout

[kingofthepaupers]

@charronfamilyconnect Money is... representation of someone energy, labour, and time.

Jct Right. And the best basis for money is Energy = Labor = Manpower*Time and that's what a UNILETS timebank is, an energy-based poker chip system.

[nowthatsinteresting1]

I'm really keen to believe this - but still struggling with it... Does this prove the theory that the 'free market' will ultimately produce fewer and fewer competitors, eventually ending up with one massive producer of everything - because of the percentage of businesses that must fail?

[kingofthepaupers]

@nowthatsinteresting1 Does this prove the 'free market' will ultimately produce fewer and fewer competitors because of the percentage of businesses that must fail?

Jct: Just like musical chairs has fewer and fewer competitors because of the percentage of people who must fail due to insufficient chairs, insufficient money to pay the mort-gage death-gamble does the same. Yes.

[nowthatsinteresting1]

@kingofthepaupers OK - I want to find out more! Is this your own theory, or is there a book I can get?

[kingofthepaupers]

@nowthatsinteresting1 "Is this your own theory, or is there a book I can get?"

Jct: No, running money like interest-free inflation-free poker chips is my theory which is why few take the banking systems engineer seriously. They expect the solution from one of the world's million economists who never got it right before, but certainly, what's a systems engineer supposed to know about the banking system's engineering? Google for bankmath and you'll find my highest-tech analysis.

[nowthatsinteresting1]

@kingofthepaupers Here's one for you. In the UK in the 70s, the economy went down the pan - we were told this was caused massive inflation, caused by the government 'printing money' and not 'living within their means'. This spectre is always called on if anyone talks about operating the economy differently from the 'free market' way in the UK. Can you interpret this using your theory - might help me get it! Sorry I keep pesting you...

[kingofthepaupers]

@nowthatsinteresting1 "massive inflation, caused by the government 'printing money'"

Jct: Either it's Shift A, too much money chasing empty store shelves, or Shift B. Do you see too much money chasing empty store shelves or empty wallets chasing full store shelves? It's not too much money, Shift A, it can only be Shift B inflation, same money chasing less goods due to foreclosure. If not printing money fights Shift A, then printing money fights Shift B. Print money to fight inflation. Ha!

[whahas]

@kingofthepaupers You can print too much money, right?

I really like your rhymes and I never heard of inflation Shift B, although it sounds so logical.

In the end of the day / year what's more important?

People that are chasing money or people that still own their property?

[kingofthepaupers]

@whahas I really like your rhymes and I never heard of inflation Shift B, although it sounds so logical.

Jct: Imagine a whole pseudo-scientific discipline trained to presume it's inflation is always up on this side and never contemplate that it could be down on the other side? Raising interest does fight Inflation Shif by slowing money growth chasing the goods, but we're not suffering wheelbarrows of money chasing empty store shelves, it's empty wallets chasing full store shelves!

[kingofthepaupers]

Jct: Tough to hear when I don't know what your abbreviation MPE means. It would help if you posted WIMTY

[kingofthepaupers]

Wow, yes. How can a whole science be taught about "up on the left" and never contemplate "down on the right?"

[benlowreyhimself]

WOW

[scienceofgod]

Thanks! I feel even more screwed than I did a minute ago.

[kingofthepaupers]

@scienceofgod Are you kidding? Now that you know real inflation is collateral down on the right and not money up on the left, you won't waste time fighting more money up on the left. All these guys decrying too much money are backwards! Think about that. There are many people in the world who know about Shift B (down on the right), let alone even know about the possibility of anything other than money up on the left. Now you know the answer is to issue more chips backed up by collateral time.

[an0m0nus]

i can see how this relates situation where the people borrowing the money purchased assets like houses or consumer goods that wouldn't produce commodities and increase wealth.

but if the money where invested in say a factory that produced goods would re-dress the balance and increase the wealth and combat this shift b inflation you theorise (i'm abit confused by it my self)

I think the wholes idea in Austrian economics is that only investors should borrow money as they could pay it back.

[kingofthepaupers]

@an0m0nus Collateral is pledged for chips. More chips are owed than exist. After some get knocked out of the game and have their collateral confiscated, there is less collateral to back up the chips on the table. It works the same for houses or for cars and even for time pledged so it's the same problem for everyone. Creating new wealth doesn't pay your debt, the bank wants cash.

[Nicosmind2]

I think i know what youre saying. It would be good if apart from only explaining the process if you showed the math step by step, but of course that would be hard to demostrate(it would be good if someone offered to do animation for your vids)

So youre saying that foreclosures happen cause there isnt enough money to pay of the interest. But isnt the point of a gold standard to stop things like hyperinflation? Now that is caused by too much money entering the system is it not?

[kingofthepaupers]

The simple algebra is in the biglie htm file at my home page and the advanced engineering math is at the bankmath htm page.

I'm saying forclosures result because someone always gets knocked out of the game where everyone borrowed 10 and owes 11 in the mort-gage death-gamble game of financial musical chairs whethe debt is in scarce gold or in scarce computer credits.

[Nicosmind2]

"I'm saying forclosures result because someone always gets knocked out of the game where everyone borrowed 10 and owes 11 "

I get that bit i just dont get the maths. Ill have to take a look at your site and see if i can work thru it. Im not that great at math though. Must get myself a tutor some time. Anyway it sounds like youre saying its cause theres not eonough money in the system with your game analogy but surely too much gives us Zimbanwe so there has to be a balance. Thanks for reply :)

[kingofthepaupers]

Go read my babyl00.htm page at my site for the history of gold and its inflation.

[Otevra13]

Hi John Thanks for your efforts to make it simple. I'm interested in the game you describe in this vid could you give me a brief explanation for how to play it with say 5 to 10 people?

[kingofthepaupers]

Search bankmath.htm at my johnturmel homepage for an example right at the end of how to play the game on Interest Island and Service Charge Island to demonstrate the difference.

[videocornwall]

Excellent commentary, very interesting....

[kingofthepaupers]

Jct: Imagine. Economics teaches Shift A but no one ever noticed Shift B which was proven when the World Bank worried about Argentinian provinces printing up their own provincial bond currency with an inflation rate of 1000%. But with all that new money in circulation, inflation went down! Shift B inflation reduced when foreclosures reduced.

[whahas]

@kingofthepaupers Yes, but in this case they were fighting money with money right?

Have you heard about Self-Issued Credit?

[kingofthepaupers]

@whahas Have you heard about Self-Issued Credit?

Jct: Heard of self-issued credit? I'm the first one using my P2P self-issued timecredits at my facebook info page and got a world-wide UNILETS self-issued credits timebank in the Millennium Declaration C6 to governments. Now, what self-issued credit machine are you talking about?

[whahas]

@kingofthepaupers Paul Grignon's proposal for a new system, as a solution for the current one. Although he doesn't say that money as debt is the problem, this is the name of his series.

Money as Debt III: evolution beyond money is his latest and final movie about it. I'm still reviewing, but he has made a system that's based on self-issued credit, where the goodwill makes the Credit.

I hope I can explain it better in the future. I don't have facebook, so I couldn't view your page properly.

[kingofthepaupers]

@whahas Paul Grignon doesn't say that money as debt is the problem, this is the name of his series.

Jct: If you google for Turmel and Grignon, you'll find small areas where we disagree. But then he went on to some kind of weird system far more complicated than simple timetrading. I held high hopes but he got derailed.

[whahas]

@kingofthepaupers Of course you know him, you two even live in the same country! I have heard of Time Dollars and Time trading, but I haven't delved into it yet. I will, but as I just read, Paul's objection is that you can cheat in the system, right? My objection with just time trading is that efficiency isn't promoted. It doesn't stimulate technological innovation. You can probably debunk this, right?

[kingofthepaupers]

@whahas My objection with just time trading is that efficiency isn't promoted. It doesn't stimulate technological innovation. You can probably debunk this, right?

Jct: Right. How can having enough money to do things right stimulate technological innovation less than having not enough money to do things right? Enough mney maximizes efficiency and industrial power.

[kingofthepaupers]

@whahas I don't have facebook, so I couldn't view your page properly.

Jct: At my site johnturmel com you can slash for unilets htm which was my old UNILETS Timebank Account I used until I moved it to my Facebook page. EG: I had to get money delivered to the Toronto so I called on a buddy who saved me the effort and I credited him with the 3x5 Hours I'd have wasted going myself.

[garmurinn]

Good video.

[kingofthepaupers]

Jct: Once you get Shift B inflation, the world starts to look very different, doesn't it?

[dec2]

good video and good delivery while explaining the chart and graph.