@xXMNM808Xx, it varies. Some of them last 2+ years and counting and some of them last only a few months. It all depends on the board. Unfortunately, reballing isn't the be-all end-all of the rrod problem.
@robotexual, you can safely take lead solder up to 200C (some boards require it to be ~205C because they are thicker and wick heat away more rapidly than thinner boards). The recommendation is to keep the lead solder above liquidus for 30-45 seconds.
@ModifiedGamingx1, that's for bench testing. I taped nylon washers to the heatsinks so that they don't accidentally fall over and short something out while they're on the CPU/GPU.
I've also blown caps with the T8280 set at 180C. I've been preheating to 160C the past while and haven't had a problem since. I just use the built-in board support though (works fine for me), could that be why caps are blowing at 180C? Too close to the IR plates maybe?
@neildmd, I use a support jig that has 1" high standoffs, so 180C is required. Since you're using the support rails which sit lower, 180C would be too hot.
How high should the board sit up off of the preheater? (How long are your standoffs?) Did you buy your motherboard support/jig premade from somewhere, or did you make it yourself? Is it made out of aluminum? Thanks for any input you can share!
@elptrilogy The standoffs are about 1". You can buy this support jig from sra-solder. c o m. They also sell one for PS3s. It's made out of steel, which doesn't flex like aluminum does.
@BAConsoles How do you keep the electrolytic capacitors from overheating and venting due to your high preheat temperature? I have a Hakko FR-1012B IR preheater which can effectively preheat the entire board, yet when preheating past 100C I've blown caps before due to excess heat (most caps are only rated to 80C, high temp ones up to 105...) Thanks!
@PabloEdvardo That's a very nice preheater! Are you using the T/C or power mode on it? If you're using the T/C mode, make sure that the TCs are touching the bottom of the board otherwise the preheater will think that it's not hot enough and will continue to output heat.
@BAConsoles I use the T/C mode, and I'm beginning to suspect that my have been my issue. As of yet I've only used Kapton tape to secure it to the top side of the PCB (a piece over the tip and a piece futher down the line to reinforce it). I've read, however, that aluminum tape does a better job of maintaining surface contact, since Kapton tape tends to lift when at reflow temperatures. So perhaps when I did blow the caps, the preheater was outputting too much power like you said.
@BAConsoles In your opinion though I shouldn't have any issues with preheat temperatures upwards of 180C across the board? Like I said, since most caps are rated for 85 to 105C, the fact that I blew them previously made me assume it was because I always set my preheater to 180 (its max setting). Since I've used 100 max I've had no issues with blown caps, but my soak time is longer. Also thank you, it's a beautiful preheater - I got it with the FR803B and the adjustable stand for an insane deal.
@PabloEdvardo The bottom of the board goes to 180-200C and it doesn't cause the caps to blow. I think setting your preheater to 180C is getting the bottom way past 230C (maybe around 250C). You should also use an external TC to independently monitor the bottom temp. You'll be surprised what it really is. Make sure the tip of the TC is touching the bottom of the board. If it's not touching, it's just measuring the air.
@BAConsoles Aha! That should probably solve it. I've already ordered some high temperature aluminum tape which I should be able to use to attach the T/C to the bottom (using just Kapton won't work since it doesn't reflect enough light radiation, and falls off). Fortunately I also have two extra thermocouples and multimeters I can use to measure temperatures. I usually use a high temp T/C (up to 2K F) for right next to the chip, but now I'll use my remaining one for the top probably near the caps
@BAConsoles I have a aoyue 968 and t8280 bottom heater do you think the temp settings for top heater will work with your profile, and what is the air flow settings.
@BAConsoles I have a aoyue 968 and t8280 bottom heater do you think the temp settings for top heater will work with your profile, and what is the air flow settings. is there a way you could call me at 832-296-0418
@STEVENMO27 the aoyue 968 is notorious for having uneven temps. If you put a TC on the left and right side of the GPU, you'll notice the difference get larger and larger as the temps rise. That station is not suitable for reball and probably not a good one for reflowing either.
@BAConsoles I have the FR-803 and I've noticed that using the 4141N head piece (which appears to be what you're using), my actual air temps are considerably lower. I have to set the machine to upwards of 350-400 to get temps high enough to reach 220-230 for removing the lead-free bga. Also, I have to put the nozzle almost flush around the bga to get even heating, which makes it almost impossible to securely attach a thermocouple to the bga top or side to develop a profile. How strong air flow?
@PabloEdvardo, I keep the 4141N nozzle about 3mm above the motherboard. This allows enough room to put a TC next to the GPU. For airflow, I am using 20 L/min. I only need to set the FR-802 to 270-285C to get the lead-free solder molten enough to lift the BGA. I hold for about 15 seconds when the TC next to the GPU reads 228-230C. Practice on a few dead boards until you start to get consistent BGA lifts.
@lynchdemartini: You will have to make lots of modifications to the heat gun (airflow & temp control). Even then, it's pretty much impossible to reflow properly using a heat gun, let alone reball with it.
Reballing took me a few months to figure out. You can't reball unless you master reflowing. Heat guns are for stripping paint. People spend big bucks on reflow stations for a reason. I'm the cheapest person I know, yet I still spent ~$1000 on my equipment. What does that tell you? =)
no i am saying i cool it quickly. as soon as the alarm goes off on the achi, i turn the fans on. i dont let it sit. when it cools quick i believe it hardens the solder quicker instead of letting it melt slowly which isnt great.
@xboxhaxorz: Actually, I don't think it's a good idea to cool liquid solder quickly. I do my 4C/sec cooling immediately after the solder is no longer liquid but may be soft still. That's how you get a stronger joint.
how long do they last after the reball?
xXMNM808Xx 2 months ago
@xXMNM808Xx, it varies. Some of them last 2+ years and counting and some of them last only a few months. It all depends on the board. Unfortunately, reballing isn't the be-all end-all of the rrod problem.
BAConsoles 1 month ago
Thanks for taking the time to show everyone how to do this. I appreciate it buddy
iPhoneWhizKID 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@robotexual, you can safely take lead solder up to 200C (some boards require it to be ~205C because they are thicker and wick heat away more rapidly than thinner boards). The recommendation is to keep the lead solder above liquidus for 30-45 seconds.
BAConsoles 3 months ago
Just wondering, why do you put two Jasper heat sinks on the consoles you repair?
ModifiedGamingx1 5 months ago
@ModifiedGamingx1, that's for bench testing. I taped nylon washers to the heatsinks so that they don't accidentally fall over and short something out while they're on the CPU/GPU.
BAConsoles 2 months ago
I've also blown caps with the T8280 set at 180C. I've been preheating to 160C the past while and haven't had a problem since. I just use the built-in board support though (works fine for me), could that be why caps are blowing at 180C? Too close to the IR plates maybe?
neildmd 6 months ago
@neildmd, I use a support jig that has 1" high standoffs, so 180C is required. Since you're using the support rails which sit lower, 180C would be too hot.
BAConsoles 6 months ago
How high should the board sit up off of the preheater? (How long are your standoffs?) Did you buy your motherboard support/jig premade from somewhere, or did you make it yourself? Is it made out of aluminum? Thanks for any input you can share!
elptrilogy 7 months ago
@elptrilogy The standoffs are about 1". You can buy this support jig from sra-solder. c o m. They also sell one for PS3s. It's made out of steel, which doesn't flex like aluminum does.
BAConsoles 6 months ago
i also have an aoyue 852 ++ IS THAT bad also if so what is a good top heater that will do good reflows and reballs
STEVENMO27 7 months ago
@BAConsoles How do you keep the electrolytic capacitors from overheating and venting due to your high preheat temperature? I have a Hakko FR-1012B IR preheater which can effectively preheat the entire board, yet when preheating past 100C I've blown caps before due to excess heat (most caps are only rated to 80C, high temp ones up to 105...) Thanks!
PabloEdvardo 7 months ago
@PabloEdvardo That's a very nice preheater! Are you using the T/C or power mode on it? If you're using the T/C mode, make sure that the TCs are touching the bottom of the board otherwise the preheater will think that it's not hot enough and will continue to output heat.
BAConsoles 7 months ago
@BAConsoles I use the T/C mode, and I'm beginning to suspect that my have been my issue. As of yet I've only used Kapton tape to secure it to the top side of the PCB (a piece over the tip and a piece futher down the line to reinforce it). I've read, however, that aluminum tape does a better job of maintaining surface contact, since Kapton tape tends to lift when at reflow temperatures. So perhaps when I did blow the caps, the preheater was outputting too much power like you said.
PabloEdvardo 7 months ago
@BAConsoles In your opinion though I shouldn't have any issues with preheat temperatures upwards of 180C across the board? Like I said, since most caps are rated for 85 to 105C, the fact that I blew them previously made me assume it was because I always set my preheater to 180 (its max setting). Since I've used 100 max I've had no issues with blown caps, but my soak time is longer. Also thank you, it's a beautiful preheater - I got it with the FR803B and the adjustable stand for an insane deal.
PabloEdvardo 7 months ago
@PabloEdvardo The bottom of the board goes to 180-200C and it doesn't cause the caps to blow. I think setting your preheater to 180C is getting the bottom way past 230C (maybe around 250C). You should also use an external TC to independently monitor the bottom temp. You'll be surprised what it really is. Make sure the tip of the TC is touching the bottom of the board. If it's not touching, it's just measuring the air.
BAConsoles 7 months ago
@BAConsoles Aha! That should probably solve it. I've already ordered some high temperature aluminum tape which I should be able to use to attach the T/C to the bottom (using just Kapton won't work since it doesn't reflect enough light radiation, and falls off). Fortunately I also have two extra thermocouples and multimeters I can use to measure temperatures. I usually use a high temp T/C (up to 2K F) for right next to the chip, but now I'll use my remaining one for the top probably near the caps
PabloEdvardo 7 months ago
What machine do you use and what is your profile to put the chips back on
STEVENMO27 8 months ago
@STEVENMO27 Machine: Hakko FR-802
Reattach profile (lead solder):
- Set T8280 to 180C, when GPU TC reads 155C, start top heater
- Set FR-802 to 140C, hold 60s
- Set FR-802 to 160C, hold 60s
- Set FR-802 to 180C, hold 30s
- Set FR-802 to 200C, hold 75s
BAConsoles 8 months ago
@BAConsoles I have a aoyue 968 and t8280 bottom heater do you think the temp settings for top heater will work with your profile, and what is the air flow settings.
STEVENMO27 7 months ago
@BAConsoles I have a aoyue 968 and t8280 bottom heater do you think the temp settings for top heater will work with your profile, and what is the air flow settings. is there a way you could call me at 832-296-0418
STEVENMO27 7 months ago
@STEVENMO27 the aoyue 968 is notorious for having uneven temps. If you put a TC on the left and right side of the GPU, you'll notice the difference get larger and larger as the temps rise. That station is not suitable for reball and probably not a good one for reflowing either.
BAConsoles 7 months ago
@BAConsoles I have the FR-803 and I've noticed that using the 4141N head piece (which appears to be what you're using), my actual air temps are considerably lower. I have to set the machine to upwards of 350-400 to get temps high enough to reach 220-230 for removing the lead-free bga. Also, I have to put the nozzle almost flush around the bga to get even heating, which makes it almost impossible to securely attach a thermocouple to the bga top or side to develop a profile. How strong air flow?
PabloEdvardo 6 months ago
@PabloEdvardo, I keep the 4141N nozzle about 3mm above the motherboard. This allows enough room to put a TC next to the GPU. For airflow, I am using 20 L/min. I only need to set the FR-802 to 270-285C to get the lead-free solder molten enough to lift the BGA. I hold for about 15 seconds when the TC next to the GPU reads 228-230C. Practice on a few dead boards until you start to get consistent BGA lifts.
BAConsoles 6 months ago
is it okay to use a heating gun instead of those heating stations for reballing? If I can use a heating gun, my gun's temps are 300 C & 500 C.
lynchdemartini 9 months ago
@lynchdemartini: You will have to make lots of modifications to the heat gun (airflow & temp control). Even then, it's pretty much impossible to reflow properly using a heat gun, let alone reball with it.
Reballing took me a few months to figure out. You can't reball unless you master reflowing. Heat guns are for stripping paint. People spend big bucks on reflow stations for a reason. I'm the cheapest person I know, yet I still spent ~$1000 on my equipment. What does that tell you? =)
BAConsoles 9 months ago
@BAConsoles I sent you a message in the inbox can you please reply back?
lynchdemartini 9 months ago
no i am saying i cool it quickly. as soon as the alarm goes off on the achi, i turn the fans on. i dont let it sit. when it cools quick i believe it hardens the solder quicker instead of letting it melt slowly which isnt great.
xboxhaxorz 9 months ago
@xboxhaxorz: Actually, I don't think it's a good idea to cool liquid solder quickly. I do my 4C/sec cooling immediately after the solder is no longer liquid but may be soft still. That's how you get a stronger joint.
BAConsoles 9 months ago
Comment removed
xboxhaxorz 9 months ago
@xboxhaxorz: You are correct. I let the board sit for a good 3-5 minutes before I put the fans on. If you cool it too fast, it can warp the board.
BAConsoles 9 months ago
it was my understanding a rapid cool down helps create stronger joints, which is why complete machines have fans built into them
correct?
xboxhaxorz 9 months ago
how much do you charge to reball and reflow xboxes
17DGO17 1 year ago
@17DGO17, reflows are $40 and reballs are $60. I've also sent you a PM.
BAConsoles 1 year ago