I'm not a Muslim and I dislike relgions, since I feel that it divide and opposes people into different sects , but I looked at more videos of this guy and somehow he makes 'his religion;Islam' very interesting. That is wat you call a missionary.
We know irrefutably that every writing has to have a writer, the act of hitting has to have a hitter, and that a building has to have a builder. NOTHING comes to existence by itself. Therefore, it follows that this universe with all the creations in it has to have a creator and this is Allah.The sound mind does not accept the existence of an action without someone who carried it out.It is not conceivable for nature to be the Creator, because nature has no will. So, how would nature create?
Believing in something, ANYTHING without evidence is outside the bounds of rationality. You're reasoning fails and your logic is flawed. The problem isn't whether islam is more rational than any other faith, the problem is with faith itself.
What a load of rubbish, is this delusional felcher for real? Talk about contradicting yourself, but then again, what does one expect from a fallacious primitive Cult?
You try to rationalize the irrationality as a legitimate theory. Thus,making it believeable to others who fancy irrational fears,beliefs etc.The tactic itself pure simple to control people.However,in islam,you r prohibited to weight god's entity via logic. That is a total negation to rationality when you try to rationalize god as a miracle worker.I see this as a debacle for self indulgent premise.
God gives your logic and freewill but at the same time prohibits from using it questioning his veracity.That is bullshit. Btw, your analogy to equate humans as robot is simpleton. Humans have mental capacity and freewill, robots however, are inanimate object that are encoded with programme. So, you are saying humans are slaves just like robots? Ha. Good idea. That is basic teaching of a heard of sheep and turning religion into a force of coercion instead of personal practice.
Humans tend to believe in fairy tales because of its hypnotizing power and magic are the keys to open the mystery life after death. Humans actually can control other humans via organized social strucure and religion definitely falls into that. It is simple to accept irrational thoughts because it can't be explained via science and material for those who are weak minded.Indeed,it is the easiest way to shape a herd of sheep.
Fairytales are a means to control however the reason people believe in them is because of the characters they put in.
let it be the american ex-Navy soldier or the great god odin of norse mythology, these characters are created to fill in a human psychological characteristic we experiance in dreams.
Heros = Bravary, Sacrafice
Enemy = Fear, Evil
Mentor = Helper, Teachers
Minion = Soldier of the Enemy
This format by itself, if followed correctly, allows perfect control. (i.e. Myths Movies..)
Yes. thats why Im saying, if they can't use logic and actually simply decipher the reason behind of so called fancy stories of the past, they certainly unable to realize themselves as slaves.
to add, muslims blantly call humans being slaves of god.
- wait, God is omnipotent. If he is that great, he does not require slaves to verify his greatness.He is god.He does not need humans turn into slaves. If your perception relations between god and humans like that, your god merely is a dictactorship and not exactly a divine one.
Freedom of god? there's someone who did that and he's called iblees. (lucifer)
-- this is where it gets kinda stupid, if god is omnipotent, why the hell he requires satan? Why can't he control satan supposedly God is great and above all? He has the power to help and diminish but humans what to blame an imaginary lucifer for the wrong doings and turn back on god for good things and giving him credits. The inconsistency is so appalling that you actually believe this phony god vs satan. Get real
jins and humans have the ability to reason. satan is a jin himself meaning he can reason to know the right from wrong. you were telling me a minute ago that i was refering to god as a dictator so: hey, you're asking me "why can't he just control him?" what stand are you on? and btw, islamic idealogy states satan's power is equlivant to gabrail the archangel not to god. Because god is omnipotent as you said. About the slaves, you are not forced to be one, you can deviate and go on your own
hey, you're asking me "why can't he just control him?"
-- yes why can't god diminish him? My stand is if god is great and most powerful deity,then he sure has the ability to control satan and actually diminish satan in order to help humans.
jins, satan, god.they are all imaginary figure of higher power. It is something for most people who rely on blind faith. You stating the islamic ideology that satan and god have the same power,that puts your god as not powerful nor omnipotent which is inconsistent to your own system of beliefs. This is confusing and highly manipulative. Just like adam and eve, statistically speaking, no way they could create up to this population.
God is mere CONCEPT of POWER. He does not exist what soever. If he does, he is sure one hell of boring ass god. He manages to let millions of people die and suffer in earthquake, I mean, Innocent people. On top of that, he has not done anything good besides being a figurative model. While humans tend to blame each other, run amuck, hating each other for different ideology, he is up there..telling us.. do for salvation.say what?
but you will walk a dark world, alone, among jins who lie to you and decieve you because like any cunning smart being, they want to abuse you just to gain an edge on you. Isn't this what athiests promote?
You want to blame satan and jin for the bad things happen to humans such as adultery, temptation etc but give good credits for god the good things happen to you? No fcking way. If god is great, he sure can control satan and of course, claiming how merciful he is, he sure can help humans from sufferings etc.But the fact, you want to blame satan and praise god, its inconsistent with God being the greatest of all. God is a concept and you can't prove his existence as well as satan.
If god exists and you imply only your god is the true creator, why the hell your god has not helped your people from sufferings or natural disaster?
Often time, I hear they blame 'non muslims' for their own lack of morality.
God is a symbol of power.The universe itself can't explain itself. Rather than dwelling 'my god is better than yours' rhetoric, how about actually enjoy life and respect each other differences? I see religion as ideology to control people.
he wasn't implying that his god is the true creator, he didn't even say that.
It's how you worship him and understand him.
Athiesim as a whole advocates self-worship by just doing things that let you enjoy your OWN life. There is no way an athiest or an agnostic would ever pitch in to help someone else (Faliure of Communisim) so in other words, athisim is also an ideology to control. No muslim is ever controlled by his religion if he himself accepts what the religion is.
No muslim is ever controlled by his religion if he himself accepts what the religion is.
- thats not the reality. Religion would be a perfect practice if its left as an individual choice, but not turning into a collective force of coercion. There is a different. In fact, there is no reason to believe one religion is superior than the other because each religion has its own flaws and innaccuracy.
That's what i said. you just rephrased. No muslim IS CONTROLLED if he accepts it. I didn't say it was superior. You may believe in something you think it's true. I don't force you to convert. In fact i just pity your ignorance. This is freedom of religion and freedom of speech = (again, my opinion of your different religion, don't attack it.)
Neither can you disprove. But you may think of them as concepts, I don't really care but I see it as truth based on personal experiance. Just don't assume god doesn't exist because he stays silent over natural disasters. There's a reason for everything, I don't have all the answers but make sure to inqure into the issue. You might find a thing or two.
Just don't assume god doesn't exist because he stays silent over natural disasters
- u can force me to think that way.Thats a real evidence of his inconsistency. Its not proving his existence nor his power.
The same way you want to say humans are slaves, implies, regardless we as divine creatures on earth,we simply cant use logic to question god veracity and entity and end up just like any lab rats ready for a 'test'. How CONVENIENCE that sort of concept of deity.
I'm not telling you how to think, in fact i don't even know how to respond to you anymore. we could go on and on till the next day with each one of us standing on one side of the argument and just attack each other constantly.
I'm gonna follow what a sura in the quran says about dealing with situations like this. And it's about the unblievers (like yourself) surat al kafer, the sinner. at the last verse in the surah: To you your religion, and to me mine.
see.. how convenience a scripture telling his followers how to DEAL with non believers and equate them as sinners. Do you see how your religion programme you to believe yourself as higher being than the rest who are not muslims? The same way to apply with christianity and judaism. The most ironic thing about religion, those 3 share probable ideology but separated due to divisive power and human corruption.Nither quran nor bible is HOLY.
Because deep down you don't want to believe so there's actually nothing i can say will change your mind. In surat al bakara it says so: 5atama allah 3ala kolobikom.
I dont want to believe something that is illogical and guided by blind faith. Do you understand that? I am perfectly capable to use my mental logic and intellectual capacity to know what is right and what is wrong and what is silly and what is higly crazy.
I didn't say you were a sinner, i said unbelievers. there;s a difference. sinning is when you harm the community around your or yourself.
anyway again, there's no point in this. I am not an arogant fuck who thinks his religion is better than everybody else's but the athiest ideology promotes selfishisim. That's what I'm talking about here. Not how GREAT islam is or etc. That's for the believer to discuss, not for the athiest.
I am not promoting selifshism. Im promoting basic civil liberty, the right and choice to argue, understand,question the inconsistency of any formalized social structure such as govt, religion or even a cult. Its basic freewill and human rights.
And what we are doing right now is what you are arguing for. You don't see me going all: "FOLLOW ISLAM OR THE DEVIL WILL BURN YOU!!" that's extremist talk man. My intent is not to convert you to repeat, mainly to show you that athists do in a way think selfishly of the world and not rationally.
like i said, religion is great when it is kept as an individual choice. but for you to challenge logic makes me suspect your own attempt and intention to nullify my questions and rhetoric.
Yes, exactly, how religion can be manipulated collectively into force of coercion. Neither quran ever states about mutilation but the practice is based on hadith that is highly questionable.
This brings back to the topic on rather religion should be kept as an individual choice than 'preaching'.
to be honest i've read some islamic sources and there are muslims who even question the validaty of the hadith. I can show you a website that has great information for you if you're interested on the matter of mutilation.
to all atheists, why dont you just kill yourselves and get it over with? why are you living, its a waste of time, just say screw it and be done. i dare you!!
religion has caused more deaths than any other means throughout the history of man. the record speaks for itself. where is the pied piper leading your next?
Your arguments are the same as Christian arguments, Christians talk the same claptrap. I'll tell you what's a Miracle. It's a Miracle that anybody believes what the Koran or Bible says. It's absolutely amazing that peaple could believe such things.
I'm wondering about this miracle of the Koran bit. How is it possible that no Arabic speaker could've ever written something like the Koran? Maybe someone could if he tried? What does it mean 'like the Koran' anyway? On what basis would you accept that a book would be like the Koran?
i just answered and you want me to jam it down your brain so it could stick
look even an idiot would understand the first step to answering your stupid question now a lazy Butt such as your self i dont know because apparent;ly you would rather wait for an answer through the internet like some couch potato instead of going to a local book store and buying a translation or going to a masjid and getting one for free
lazy bum
end of conversation now get your butt off your couch and take a hike
You are just as irrational as any Christian. Period. Islam is just as irrational as any other religion. Your arguments are exactly the same as Christian arguments, just as fallacious and unintelligent.
Putting God outside of science does not make anything rational. It just makes it impossible for anyone to say anything disproving of what you claim, and so its just not a fair argument.
where is the rational anything.A miracle would be all people read and understand any holy books the same way.That would be a real miracle....What if the big bang was the creation.!!!!!
Ok at 0:46 in the video , "so when he was in the cave , an angel approached him and..." ...the fact that you'r saying this with so much conviction is enough to stop all attempt for a rational debate.
All religion is irrational, for rationalizing the supernatural in the modern-age is an oxymoron. Humans who do not study or believe in God is always of equal knowledge of the others who've spend their whole lifetime dedicated to the idea of the existence of Him. If man needs a text of dogma to understand God then he has only read the voice of man - if man does not need text to hear God, then he is a lunatic. Grow up!
1-atheists don't say that universe always existed.
2- the main key to your rational connexion i.e. Quran is from God was just stated and not proven. Even if Quran in not imitable (whatever that means and however it can be tested)how is that proof that it is from God??
Many humans can do unimitable things in mental calculations, memory, literature...etc is that proof of divine nature???
@mujtahid2006 This is factually incorrect either way. It has nothing to do with observation, as things we observe or cannot observe may seem to be other than as they are. I can wear 3d glasses and observe something on a screen to be popping out at me, but it isn't. It has to do with EVIDENCE. I'll fix your sentence for you: "Rationality is concerned with beliefs based upon evidence".
If the rationale for theism is that the universe requires an origin thus the origin must be God, but we claim that God does not have an origin because by it's nature it is infinite, then why can the universe also not be considered infinite, since neither the infinite God nor the infinite universe has ever been observed? And does not the infinite God have an equal degree of evidence as the infinite universe?
Basically mujtahid is saying that his god is so very special that he doesn't leave evidence for his existence behind, so seeking evidence for the existence of his god is irrational.
Muslims and christians are completely deluded, and it would be funny as hell if you savages weren't killing so many people along the way.
this video made you laugh, wow you have a weird sense of humour. You also lie, why do you lie, I mean cant you make a valid argument against Mujtahid without making stuff up, (Basically mujtahid is saying that his god is so very special that he doesn't leave evidence for his existence behind, so seeking evidence for the existence of his god is irrational) I think youre watching another video, he never said or implied that.
Sure he did. He went to great lengths to try to pass off belief in a god which is invisible, silent, untouchable, and which has never been measured or detected in any way as rational. Allah is some sort of super special creature which does not show itself to us - which provides no evidence whatsoever for it's existence.
Allah is almost certainly makebelieve - a lie. And to hear you muslims dance around the vacuum of evidence IS funny.
I was in the toilet taking a dump this morning and an angel came to me. That angel informed me of my prophet hood. Yes, God chooses to have another prophet because it's been a while and a lot of people have chosen the wrong path. God tells me to clarify things. I'll make a book soon. If you think I'm irrational I guess you're not paying attention to the video at all.
What would you do if Allah appeared to you tomorrow and told you something different than that which is written in the Quran? Would you continue to follow Quran and say that vision was false or would you follow vision and say that Quran was false?(and no cop outs like he would never do such a thing). BTW saying 110% is irrational, if something is cut into 100 pieces, you can only produce 100 pieces, not 110.
No, he was one scribe. The one who compiled the textual form of Quran was Zaid bin thabit and four others under his supervision, his work has given us the written copy, not Abdullah bin Sa'ad. Abdullah bin sa'ad later converted back to Islam btw.
I agree with you simply because I recognise this chain you speak about. But you should take more time to explain the rationality behind every point in several dimensions and repeat it. Also, I agree that with your baby example, though from a different angle and I agree that Islam is an ideology, simply called religion since it has a God. Good work for me, but not enough for unbelievers
The New Testament repeatedly declares that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was crucified and resurrected to both pay for our sins and to make possible our salvation, but the Qur'an expressly denies all these things. The Qur'an says Jesus was not crucified. (Surah 4:157-158). The Qur'an teaches that those who believe in the Blessed Trinity are dung.
So its Irrational to believe in the Big Bang,(for which we see evidence in the expansion and geometry of the universe) but it is Rational to believe that God (a very complex dude) Just exists eternally, outside space and time. btw, Allah called, he says your beard is too short.
I don't think that the universe has existed forever. I think that it has existed for billions of years because we can see stars billions of light years away.
He is VERY, VERY boring. He's one of those muslim twats at Speaker's Corner who has really dragged down the tone of debate generally. Hell, can't muslims just improve their vocabulary and erudition about their own crappy 'faith', then they would be worth debating.
And there are no converts to Islam, just reverts... I was never part of your religion, so please do not suggest it. I am not, and never am going to be, born into Islamic oppression like so many are in the Islamic world, not by choice, but by birth!
I prefer to think that God functions within His laws in ways that we don't understand. If He bends or breaks the "laws", then they are not laws, but imperfect.
mujtahid could've benefitted from an entry-level philosophy course rather than all the theology. this video, and most religious videos, leave me rooting for the speed of evolution so this planet can rid itself of this awful cancer.
im an atheist and i don't think the universe is eternal...i'd find it hard to find any that do, seeing as since has stated our universe to have started at a finite point. i'm sure a lot of atheists have already commented on this point.
Lets just go back to clubs and beat the shit out of each other.
Quit inventing new words out of thin air. No one think, it is bad, because the new club is a nuclear weapon.
The whole world will suffer this time. How is this for Logic and Natural selection? Natural Selection through man will lead to global suicide, regardless of ones stance. We are at that very door. It was nice while it lasted. (cough)
I am an athiest, at a very hard push gnostic (not agnostic), and I believe the universe has the beginning. It is scientifically rational that the universe has beginning, and for reasons that follow proven statements, and not scripture.
Slow down speed racer. You're a little ahead of yourself there. It is only logical that whatever created all existence is in fact: Eternal, Infinite, Trascendant...etc Makes sense seeing as all space and time itself were created at the Big Bang along with everything else.
" It is only logical that whatever created all existence...."
You already commit a fallacy. There does not nessesarily have to be a creator. Because you don't know, you cannot speculate on if there is a "creator", let alone the characteristics of one.
There has to be a creator logically. A painter is one who paints, a Creator is one who creates. The universe was created from nothing, so it had a creator. The only thing I have to do now is show to you that this Creator is Eternal, Transcendent, Absolute, One, Perfect. All His attributes compliment one another.
There has to be a destroyer logically. A painter is one who paints, a Creator is one who creates, a destroyer is one who destroys. Some things have been destroyed, at some point ever, so those things had a destroyer.
All I have to do now is show you that this Destroyer's favourite colour is purple, likes Woody Allen films, and drinks strawberry milkshakes on Wednesdays.
There. All proven just as rationally as your Creator.
Once again, like your whirl pool, destroying is a created act that happens within the universe. It has no relevance to the objective observation of creation in our universe (all existence), because again, the Big Bang is self-implied, a unique event, most fundamental. . Your argument would say there is no evidence of 1 + 1 = 2. You're right about one thing, it is God who gives life and death. God is also the Punisher, All-Merciful...etc
Your repeated use of the bizarre idea of something being "self-implied" and what you say about 1+1=2 shows you really don't have the ability to understand what rationality even is and I'm bored of leading you round in circles.
Whatever it takes for you to go on. If you have to think you're rational. If you have to think there's a god. I just hope the voice in your head doesn't start saying nasty things one day. Good luck.
You're right. It's time to end, you're going to believe what you want. I'll believe what I want. What appears like going around in circles to you is me not letting you spin off the reality of what creation is and what the Big Bang clearly and logically implies (creation). I request one thing, remember that: Nothing is not a creator or anything, and the universe came from nothing, so be honest with yourself and you'll start seeing the plain truth. Peace
One more thing to help you understand the distinction.
Destroying is a generic act, it can be intentional or unintentional. Creation can't be unintenitional, because it involves ogranization, information from nothing. EX: A book or a computer can't come about by accident, Universe is no different (cause it came from nothing-Nothing isn't a creator). Things can't come from nothing unless there is a creator to create it from nothing, because NOTHING is not a creator.
so... if 'No-thing' is NOT a creator, then the opposite is being asserted; namely that 'thing' IS a creator. Now which part of shirk do you not understand? Nice fantasy but not Islam. It is the creation of 'thingness' that is shay-tan and as such is then NOT creator itself - only the empty shell of an abstracted mental construct - a 'thing'. Now there are 2 choices: either Allah is shay-tan (thing-ness) or that "Al-lah" is 'No-thing'... The first leads to shirk, the second to gnosis.]
All religions need to take a step back from your holy books and take them for what they are. Collections of stories that help your human brain cope with what can't be comprehended by the science. Ever wonder why since the modern times, the books have stagnated? We can explain more with science than ever before. Religion isn't bad it helps calm you in times of trouble and relieve anxiety about death, life and origin of life. Bad men can use it to pollute rational thought through blind faith.
Was Mohammed the last prophet? why didn't god send any more prophets after him. does he think the word of one can confince us all? are we not just keepers of the earth and are we not destroying our earth at the same time. it's irrational to kill to defend your religion because killing is never allowed if you believe... only non-believers are allowed to kill and offcourse god is allowed to kill people or am i wrong?
god can only exist as long as we believe in him. he was created by human mind... have you ever seen an animal pray? as long as you beleive in santaclaus he can exist and evryone around you will confess to his existence
No one should be dissing each others faith. I'm atheist, but I don't say "ALL PEOPLE WITH FAITH SUCK/(ARE IRRATIONAL)!" If someone said that to you then shame on them. Saying "atheism is irrational" kinda fans the flames if that's your intension then grrr.
Atheism is irrational? Not a chance. It is the most rational position. You ASSUME that a god is necessary to "create" the universe. THAT IS IRRATIONAL. Blind faith? There is no FAITH in ATHEISM. No wonder the world is in shambles.
First off I'd like to point out that atheism isn't a belief system, it is simply the lack of belief in deities. You can belief anything else under the sun as long as its not related to a god. Second, science does not claim that the universe had no beginning (i.e. the big bang theory). The difference between science and religion is that science seeks truth through natural causes not super natural, and will never claim to have all the answers.
In order to have a "lack of belief in something", you first have to "believe" that there are no reasons or basis in order not to believe in something in the first place. Atheism is classified as Shirk in Islam as far as I know, because in order to deny God, an atheist will simply attach His attributes to the universe, for example: Infinite Universe, Eternal Universe...(those are God's attributes).
Supernatural explanations have a perfect record of always being proven false, so far. What has been revealed about nature by the scientific method has replaced supernatural explanations with better ones. Examples: Sickness caused by germs not evil spirits. Earthquakes as geological, not God's anger. The list goes on. Gods are imaginary. People who believe in them threaten the survival of humans on Earth.
isnt it true that muhamed had faked some miracles if not all, to grow in popularity ? I heard that a pig had dug up on of mohameds props in the ground that sprout water from the earth, and mohamed was so angered by this uncovering of his trick that he cursed the pig and thats why pork is forbidden by muslims.
Your 1st statement was that christians are irrational and you agree with atheists about that. Well, Christians also believe that god can bend the rules of nature to allow Jesus to perform miracles. You just used the SAME ARGUMENT to support Muhammad.
When christians pray to Jesus and believe a prayer has been answered I call it coincidence. I wonder what YOU call it when you are the one praying to your prophet?
"praying to your prophet?" -- Muslims don't pray to the Prophet, they pray to the incomparable intelligent Originator of all of existence. In Islam, Prophet Muhammad is a human messenger, in a long line of messengers (at least on this planet), who received revelation (Quran) from The God.
The 1st statement made was that christians are irrational and you agree with atheists about that. Well, Christians also believe that GOD can bend the rules of nature to allow Jesus to perform miracles. You just used the SAME ARGUMENT to support ISLAM.
When christians pray to Jesus or God and believe a prayer has been answered I call it coincidence. I wonder what YOU call it when you are the one praying to your "incomparable intelligent Originator of all of existence"?
The problem is, if someone has a pre-set opinion (preconceived notion) that something can't exist or there can't be any worthy evidence for it, then no matter what evidence is brought forth to them, they will deny it. It is a universal ignorance. Its why people are atheists, some still support George Bush, some are still racist, some still believe in Big Foot. It goes both ways. This is what it means when their "hearts are sealed".
I think with my brain, not my heart. My mind is open. If there was evidence, I would accept it. Why else would I even be asking for it?
I note you have not even attempted to tell me HOW those things are evidence. Really, I'd hate to see you on a jury if this is what you think is evidence!
Let's try this way: What is your favourite proof of the existence of god?
What a silly ironic statement. You think with your heart everyday, this is why you deny things. Your heart being sealed from understanding God's signs doesn't negate it. You can change, but it requires you being honest. I don't have a favorite proof of God, and you shouldn't worry about it. Mujtahid's video gives you plenty of evidence, you're just running in circles.
My understanding is the brain does the thinking; the heart pumps blood. Does the koran say otherwise?
There is no evidence in mujtahid's videos.
Yes, I'm going in circles: 1) Someone says theism is rational, 2) I ask what's the evidence, 3) they present anything but, 4) I point this out, 5) they call me names, then back to 1.
Obviously physical heart is not the heart I talk about. Its not my fault if you don't understand the simple logic and rationality of Islam. I gave you a site from harun yahya, you have Mujtahid's video right here...etc There is countless research you can do on the internet.
I find a lot of things saying they are rational arguments for god, but anyone can see they presume the acceptance of god, rather than argue for it. Indeed, you have refused to indicate a single example of one which does otherwise.
Anyone who thinks there is evidence or good arguments in these videos, well, maybe they do indeed do their thinking with a muscle.
Its not that an atheist heart is sealed. We just see too many discrepancies in organized religion to consider it viable. And with science ever adding natural explanations for things once thought the result of the super natural it is simple following a line of logic that allows us to dismiss gods.
Well science has never needed to add natural explanations for every one. Muslims already knew about these natural explanations once thought supernatural. If you accept the Big Bang, that is the most fundamental event and is self-describing. It states: The universe came from a point of infinite density from zero volume. (something from nothing). That is creation by definition.
Big bang theory doesn't include the idea that someone purposefully did it. Why not it simply happened?
If Muslims knew about the big bang all along why didn't any one say anything about it until science came up with the idea?
If you think the koran contains scientific ideas like that, you can prove it to us now by now telling us the answer to things science is currently working on, before it finds the answer.
It doesn't have to. It's the simple logic of the event that those who user their intellect can understand. The origin of the universe is creation by definition and with creation; there is a creator. If you see a computer in the desert, you know it was designed even though you don't know who placed it there or where it was made.
Something coming into being does not imply a creator.
That "logic" is something some people resort to when they don't understand how something came to be. When I don't know how something came to be, I don't conclude "a magic man done it". It is not logical to do so.
Really, Paley's watch is very rusty these days. That argument has been gone over so many times. I refer you at least to Dawkins' "The Blind Watchmaker".
For those who understand simple logic it does. You make the foolish mistake of thinking that unless you see God physically, there can't be any evidence or greater sign of creation. Using your logic, the computer in front of you has no evidence of being designed by humans, because you didn't get to see it fabricated in the factories. Moral of the story, study Big Bang cosmology and you'll learn that the universe was created - had a beginning at a single point.
I do understand logic and coming into being at a single beginning point does not imply a creator.
Even if I had not built the computer in front of me myself, the purposes of computers are human ones, and they are clearly designed. There is plenty of evidence of where computers come from.
You seem to say that because you don't know where the universe came from, there must be a creator. I'm sure that if you don't know how computers are made you wouldn't say a god made them! Or would you?
1 + 1 = 2? Right, using that simple logic now: if something is created*, it was because it had a creator*.You're supposed to have reference to plenty of evidence of computers being designed; we also have plenty of reference that the universe was created through various experiences and logic. The universe didn't come from anything anywhere at any time; it is the beginning of all existence including space and time LITERALLY. Meaning something Eternal, Absolute, Transcendent..etc (all describe God)
So we've found the basic point on which we differ. You see something existing as evidence of a creator because you think it must have been created.
Imagine watching a stream from its bank, and seeing an eddie briefly appear for a moment. There is no divine individual with a drawing board planning it, defining its circumference etc. All the physics going on just then happened to conspire to produce it at that moment. Why should the universe and life should be any different?
No one thinks it must have been created, they know it has if they are honest and see the simple logic. You can't compare the Big Bang (creation of the universe); the most fundamental event to watching a stream from its bank, you're changing the subject. Actually, the fine tuning of the universe (including laws of physics) only serves to prove creation more, its one more great sign.
Sorry but you are wrong there. Very few people I know "know" the universe came about in an intended act of creation. In fact it tends to be the proudly less logically-minded ones that believe in a creator.
So this puported rationality of belief in god seems to come down in the end to the idea that people just sort of know it? No rationale after all?
That is rather disappointing, after such a grand claim.
Only you are. Goto Nasa's web page, they all refer to "created" in regards to the Big Bang. Whether you believe in God or not is your choice, but it won't change the reality of creation. The universe was created at a single point of infinite density from zero volume (aka: creation).
There's a danger our discussion is becoming semantic, but perhaps that's progress.
In the same way a whirlpool is created with no intentional act, why must the universe be different?
Something being created does not imply a creator who is some individual with intentionality.
The key point is you have not rationalised this teleological position. You confuse making statements consistent with the position, with rational arguments supporting it. You have made the former; not the latter.
A whirlpool isn't a Universe, whirlpools form out of existing matter, they don't come from nothingness literally. Creator's create, the universe was created (came from nothing), therefore, it has a creator logically. Not to mention the fine tuning of the universe. And yes, something being created (from nothing) does mean it had a creator, that is why it's called: created. Whirlpools form, created, formation, make are all different words.
Why the distinction? Existing matter or not, something coming into being (created, made, whatever) does not in itself imply a creator-being at all, never mind of any particular form.
You are making this hard for yourself, it's not a hard concept, I promise. The Big Bang is self-implied, the creation of the universe is a raw observation. 95% of scientists accept this fact, atheist or not. Once you accept that fact without denial, I can show you other great signs that God (specifically) created us (Qur' an, design of life, fine tuning of the universe...etc)
I have to thank you. You unwittingly made a very important point that almost slid past me. God is the Creator, Destroyer, Rejouvinator, Originator, Giver of life, giver of Death...etc, all things that happen in this universe are because of His Will. So again, you're right, when something is destroyed, there is indeed a destroyer.
A few more baseless claims unsupported by any reasoning.
Be clear, I've nothing against anyone believing anything it takes for them to stick to human morality. Saying a belief is rational is another thing. Again, I'm not objecting to that either, just inquiring what the rationale is. Despite countless opportunities, nobody here has provided one.
that question is as irrational as saying "why is the sky always red?"
The attributes of created things nessesitates the need for an external originator. Whereas the attributes of a infinite and unlimited thing does not necessitate that question since it is not in need of external definition or orignation.
Origin is an attribute of the continuum (space and time) so it is meaningless to say something created the universe which is the continuum. Though you could say that the universe is part of God however as there is nothing else this would make God the universe. The only possible option is that God is the creation or the universe created God which does not make sense based on the nature of God.
I think it would help people to understand your rationality if you explain what you mean when you say "infinite". You seem to use it to mean "does not need creating", as other things, such as the universe, you say are "finite", which seems in your mind to imply "created".
I think this is the key thing to explain. Why do you think the "finite" requires a creator, and why is it only a creator that is "infinite"? What are the rational steps towards these conclusions?
Gible. Take your word games elsewhere. Infinite means infinite. Finite means finite. Eternal means Eternal, Infinite means infiite. 1 + 1 = 2, not anything else. Don't deceive yourself.
You're right for once, but ironically it goes against you. God is beyond our existence itself, He's Trascendent. In reality, only God exists in the true sense, we don't. Think of creation as like a shadow. Only God is Absolute, we are limited to the created laws of the universe.
I'm not a Muslim and I dislike relgions, since I feel that it divide and opposes people into different sects , but I looked at more videos of this guy and somehow he makes 'his religion;Islam' very interesting. That is wat you call a missionary.
shwankader 1 year ago
We know irrefutably that every writing has to have a writer, the act of hitting has to have a hitter, and that a building has to have a builder. NOTHING comes to existence by itself. Therefore, it follows that this universe with all the creations in it has to have a creator and this is Allah.The sound mind does not accept the existence of an action without someone who carried it out.It is not conceivable for nature to be the Creator, because nature has no will. So, how would nature create?
queenwitakrown 1 year ago 2
Believing in something, ANYTHING without evidence is outside the bounds of rationality. You're reasoning fails and your logic is flawed. The problem isn't whether islam is more rational than any other faith, the problem is with faith itself.
ShaolinSoldier 1 year ago
Step 1.) Because the universe exists, it needs a creator: God.
Step 2.) Because God exists, it needs a creator: ???.
Step 3.) Because ??? exists, it needs a creator: ????.
Step 4.) Repeat Step 3 until you fall into a black hole and the matter which used to be you helps seed the creation of a new universe.
DecayConstant 1 year ago
What a load of rubbish, is this delusional felcher for real? Talk about contradicting yourself, but then again, what does one expect from a fallacious primitive Cult?
ShueArie 1 year ago
What is irrational is believing in things without evidence
Ijustasking 2 years ago
In other word.
You try to rationalize the irrationality as a legitimate theory. Thus,making it believeable to others who fancy irrational fears,beliefs etc.The tactic itself pure simple to control people.However,in islam,you r prohibited to weight god's entity via logic. That is a total negation to rationality when you try to rationalize god as a miracle worker.I see this as a debacle for self indulgent premise.
cepacol06 2 years ago
the reason it's forbidden is because the Created can not by any means understand it's creator.
Example:
a robot created by a programmer can not understand the programmer can it?
emcee4343 2 years ago
God gives your logic and freewill but at the same time prohibits from using it questioning his veracity.That is bullshit. Btw, your analogy to equate humans as robot is simpleton. Humans have mental capacity and freewill, robots however, are inanimate object that are encoded with programme. So, you are saying humans are slaves just like robots? Ha. Good idea. That is basic teaching of a heard of sheep and turning religion into a force of coercion instead of personal practice.
cepacol06 2 years ago
Humans tend to believe in fairy tales because of its hypnotizing power and magic are the keys to open the mystery life after death. Humans actually can control other humans via organized social strucure and religion definitely falls into that. It is simple to accept irrational thoughts because it can't be explained via science and material for those who are weak minded.Indeed,it is the easiest way to shape a herd of sheep.
cepacol06 2 years ago
Fairytales are a means to control however the reason people believe in them is because of the characters they put in.
let it be the american ex-Navy soldier or the great god odin of norse mythology, these characters are created to fill in a human psychological characteristic we experiance in dreams.
Heros = Bravary, Sacrafice
Enemy = Fear, Evil
Mentor = Helper, Teachers
Minion = Soldier of the Enemy
This format by itself, if followed correctly, allows perfect control. (i.e. Myths Movies..)
emcee4343 2 years ago
Yes. thats why Im saying, if they can't use logic and actually simply decipher the reason behind of so called fancy stories of the past, they certainly unable to realize themselves as slaves.
cepacol06 2 years ago
to add, muslims blantly call humans being slaves of god. What you're saying isn't something new. It's called abed el'llah which is Slaves of god.
they already know they are slaves so what are you suggesting? Freedom of god? there's someone who did that and he's called iblees. (lucifer)
emcee4343 2 years ago
to add, muslims blantly call humans being slaves of god.
- wait, God is omnipotent. If he is that great, he does not require slaves to verify his greatness.He is god.He does not need humans turn into slaves. If your perception relations between god and humans like that, your god merely is a dictactorship and not exactly a divine one.
cepacol06 2 years ago
Freedom of god? there's someone who did that and he's called iblees. (lucifer)
-- this is where it gets kinda stupid, if god is omnipotent, why the hell he requires satan? Why can't he control satan supposedly God is great and above all? He has the power to help and diminish but humans what to blame an imaginary lucifer for the wrong doings and turn back on god for good things and giving him credits. The inconsistency is so appalling that you actually believe this phony god vs satan. Get real
cepacol06 2 years ago
jins and humans have the ability to reason. satan is a jin himself meaning he can reason to know the right from wrong. you were telling me a minute ago that i was refering to god as a dictator so: hey, you're asking me "why can't he just control him?" what stand are you on? and btw, islamic idealogy states satan's power is equlivant to gabrail the archangel not to god. Because god is omnipotent as you said. About the slaves, you are not forced to be one, you can deviate and go on your own
emcee4343 2 years ago
hey, you're asking me "why can't he just control him?"
-- yes why can't god diminish him? My stand is if god is great and most powerful deity,then he sure has the ability to control satan and actually diminish satan in order to help humans.
cepacol06 2 years ago
jins, satan, god.they are all imaginary figure of higher power. It is something for most people who rely on blind faith. You stating the islamic ideology that satan and god have the same power,that puts your god as not powerful nor omnipotent which is inconsistent to your own system of beliefs. This is confusing and highly manipulative. Just like adam and eve, statistically speaking, no way they could create up to this population.
cepacol06 2 years ago
what points are you arguing against exactly? im getting lost from all the points you're attacking at the same time
emcee4343 2 years ago
You lost because you rely on imaginary beings because you prevent yourself from using freewill and logic to question god's entity and existence.
cepacol06 2 years ago
God is mere CONCEPT of POWER. He does not exist what soever. If he does, he is sure one hell of boring ass god. He manages to let millions of people die and suffer in earthquake, I mean, Innocent people. On top of that, he has not done anything good besides being a figurative model. While humans tend to blame each other, run amuck, hating each other for different ideology, he is up there..telling us.. do for salvation.say what?
cepacol06 2 years ago
but you will walk a dark world, alone, among jins who lie to you and decieve you because like any cunning smart being, they want to abuse you just to gain an edge on you. Isn't this what athiests promote?
emcee4343 2 years ago
You want to blame satan and jin for the bad things happen to humans such as adultery, temptation etc but give good credits for god the good things happen to you? No fcking way. If god is great, he sure can control satan and of course, claiming how merciful he is, he sure can help humans from sufferings etc.But the fact, you want to blame satan and praise god, its inconsistent with God being the greatest of all. God is a concept and you can't prove his existence as well as satan.
cepacol06 2 years ago
If god exists and you imply only your god is the true creator, why the hell your god has not helped your people from sufferings or natural disaster?
Often time, I hear they blame 'non muslims' for their own lack of morality.
God is a symbol of power.The universe itself can't explain itself. Rather than dwelling 'my god is better than yours' rhetoric, how about actually enjoy life and respect each other differences? I see religion as ideology to control people.
cepacol06 2 years ago
he wasn't implying that his god is the true creator, he didn't even say that.
It's how you worship him and understand him.
Athiesim as a whole advocates self-worship by just doing things that let you enjoy your OWN life. There is no way an athiest or an agnostic would ever pitch in to help someone else (Faliure of Communisim) so in other words, athisim is also an ideology to control. No muslim is ever controlled by his religion if he himself accepts what the religion is.
emcee4343 2 years ago
No muslim is ever controlled by his religion if he himself accepts what the religion is.
- thats not the reality. Religion would be a perfect practice if its left as an individual choice, but not turning into a collective force of coercion. There is a different. In fact, there is no reason to believe one religion is superior than the other because each religion has its own flaws and innaccuracy.
cepacol06 2 years ago
That's what i said. you just rephrased. No muslim IS CONTROLLED if he accepts it. I didn't say it was superior. You may believe in something you think it's true. I don't force you to convert. In fact i just pity your ignorance. This is freedom of religion and freedom of speech = (again, my opinion of your different religion, don't attack it.)
emcee4343 2 years ago
Yes, then, dont try to say, your god is better than others because none of any god in any religion can prove his superiority nor existence.
God is a concept. Satan is a concept. You cant prove neither one of them.
cepacol06 2 years ago
Neither can you disprove. But you may think of them as concepts, I don't really care but I see it as truth based on personal experiance. Just don't assume god doesn't exist because he stays silent over natural disasters. There's a reason for everything, I don't have all the answers but make sure to inqure into the issue. You might find a thing or two.
emcee4343 2 years ago
Just don't assume god doesn't exist because he stays silent over natural disasters
- u can force me to think that way.Thats a real evidence of his inconsistency. Its not proving his existence nor his power.
The same way you want to say humans are slaves, implies, regardless we as divine creatures on earth,we simply cant use logic to question god veracity and entity and end up just like any lab rats ready for a 'test'. How CONVENIENCE that sort of concept of deity.
cepacol06 2 years ago
I'm not telling you how to think, in fact i don't even know how to respond to you anymore. we could go on and on till the next day with each one of us standing on one side of the argument and just attack each other constantly.
I'm gonna follow what a sura in the quran says about dealing with situations like this. And it's about the unblievers (like yourself) surat al kafer, the sinner. at the last verse in the surah: To you your religion, and to me mine.
So again i'm not here to prove anything
emcee4343 2 years ago
see.. how convenience a scripture telling his followers how to DEAL with non believers and equate them as sinners. Do you see how your religion programme you to believe yourself as higher being than the rest who are not muslims? The same way to apply with christianity and judaism. The most ironic thing about religion, those 3 share probable ideology but separated due to divisive power and human corruption.Nither quran nor bible is HOLY.
cepacol06 2 years ago
Because deep down you don't want to believe so there's actually nothing i can say will change your mind. In surat al bakara it says so: 5atama allah 3ala kolobikom.
emcee4343 2 years ago
I dont want to believe something that is illogical and guided by blind faith. Do you understand that? I am perfectly capable to use my mental logic and intellectual capacity to know what is right and what is wrong and what is silly and what is higly crazy.
cepacol06 2 years ago
I didn't say you were a sinner, i said unbelievers. there;s a difference. sinning is when you harm the community around your or yourself.
anyway again, there's no point in this. I am not an arogant fuck who thinks his religion is better than everybody else's but the athiest ideology promotes selfishisim. That's what I'm talking about here. Not how GREAT islam is or etc. That's for the believer to discuss, not for the athiest.
emcee4343 2 years ago
I am not promoting selifshism. Im promoting basic civil liberty, the right and choice to argue, understand,question the inconsistency of any formalized social structure such as govt, religion or even a cult. Its basic freewill and human rights.
cepacol06 2 years ago
And what we are doing right now is what you are arguing for. You don't see me going all: "FOLLOW ISLAM OR THE DEVIL WILL BURN YOU!!" that's extremist talk man. My intent is not to convert you to repeat, mainly to show you that athists do in a way think selfishly of the world and not rationally.
emcee4343 2 years ago
like i said, religion is great when it is kept as an individual choice. but for you to challenge logic makes me suspect your own attempt and intention to nullify my questions and rhetoric.
cepacol06 2 years ago
Try reading the quran before debunking it.
emcee4343 2 years ago
Take one example of islamic practice.
Women genital mutilation. Tell me the purpose of this practice?
cepacol06 2 years ago
That's only done in places like saudi arabia and afghanistan. With extremist racist fucks. that's no way an islamic practice.
emcee4343 2 years ago
Yes, exactly, how religion can be manipulated collectively into force of coercion. Neither quran ever states about mutilation but the practice is based on hadith that is highly questionable.
This brings back to the topic on rather religion should be kept as an individual choice than 'preaching'.
cepacol06 2 years ago
to be honest i've read some islamic sources and there are muslims who even question the validaty of the hadith. I can show you a website that has great information for you if you're interested on the matter of mutilation.
emcee4343 2 years ago
Comment removed
FreeThyMind 2 years ago
you're a fake. You want to make people hate Muslims.
rhymeswithblonde 2 years ago
wishful thinking...
pikechris1 2 years ago
to all atheists, why dont you just kill yourselves and get it over with? why are you living, its a waste of time, just say screw it and be done. i dare you!!
weonlylivetwice 2 years ago
"to all atheists, why dont you just kill yourselves and get it over with?"---It's because we DON'T have 72 virgins waiting for us ,if we do.
hunga224 2 years ago
religion has caused more deaths than any other means throughout the history of man. the record speaks for itself. where is the pied piper leading your next?
mohammedlovespork 2 years ago
I AGREE!
hunga224 2 years ago
what a shame
Virtualwallvirus 2 years ago
Your arguments are the same as Christian arguments, Christians talk the same claptrap. I'll tell you what's a Miracle. It's a Miracle that anybody believes what the Koran or Bible says. It's absolutely amazing that peaple could believe such things.
carl77777 3 years ago
I'm wondering about this miracle of the Koran bit. How is it possible that no Arabic speaker could've ever written something like the Koran? Maybe someone could if he tried? What does it mean 'like the Koran' anyway? On what basis would you accept that a book would be like the Koran?
LikeAPossum 3 years ago
well then you would have to study the quran and see why
ali921812 2 years ago
Is that some sort of 'Islamic answer'? Is there nothing more you can say?
LikeAPossum 2 years ago
i just answered and you want me to jam it down your brain so it could stick
look even an idiot would understand the first step to answering your stupid question now a lazy Butt such as your self i dont know because apparent;ly you would rather wait for an answer through the internet like some couch potato instead of going to a local book store and buying a translation or going to a masjid and getting one for free
lazy bum
end of conversation now get your butt off your couch and take a hike
ali921812 2 years ago
I do have a copy of the Koran, so what? I'm sure someone could write a chapter similar to one of these. My question is: why not?
LikeAPossum 2 years ago
well know move on to step 2
its not possible
because the affect the quran had and is still having on the world will never be surpassed by any book
peace
ali921812 2 years ago
How do you know that this is the criterion? It has always arguably been surpassed by the Bible anyway.
LikeAPossum 2 years ago
You are just as irrational as any Christian. Period. Islam is just as irrational as any other religion. Your arguments are exactly the same as Christian arguments, just as fallacious and unintelligent.
jben2north 3 years ago
Putting God outside of science does not make anything rational. It just makes it impossible for anyone to say anything disproving of what you claim, and so its just not a fair argument.
m3talmilitia15 3 years ago
Lawl.
You have one glaring problem.
You assume god exists.
The rest just falls apart or just rehashing of older arguments that've already been refuted.
EziekielNightwind 3 years ago
joke
12CIFOM 3 years ago
where is the rational anything.A miracle would be all people read and understand any holy books the same way.That would be a real miracle....What if the big bang was the creation.!!!!!
no1saphead 3 years ago
Ok at 0:46 in the video , "so when he was in the cave , an angel approached him and..." ...the fact that you'r saying this with so much conviction is enough to stop all attempt for a rational debate.
ultraworshipp 3 years ago 2
all praise the flying spaghetti monster..RAmen
galuiot 3 years ago 6
All religion is irrational, for rationalizing the supernatural in the modern-age is an oxymoron. Humans who do not study or believe in God is always of equal knowledge of the others who've spend their whole lifetime dedicated to the idea of the existence of Him. If man needs a text of dogma to understand God then he has only read the voice of man - if man does not need text to hear God, then he is a lunatic. Grow up!
BMWmotorrad14 3 years ago 3
atheists leave the strangest comments, lol...good video bro
Farhanizzle 3 years ago
what a joke.
memblor 3 years ago 5
2 things:
1-atheists don't say that universe always existed.
2- the main key to your rational connexion i.e. Quran is from God was just stated and not proven. Even if Quran in not imitable (whatever that means and however it can be tested)how is that proof that it is from God??
Many humans can do unimitable things in mental calculations, memory, literature...etc is that proof of divine nature???
Mussaheem 3 years ago 6
"rationality is concerned with BELIEFS ?"
Sue your philosophy Prof. first thing in the morning.
RuthieWeLoveYou 3 years ago 8
"Rationality is concerned with beliefs based upon observation" QUOTE THE WHOLE SENTENCE!!
mujtahid2006 3 years ago 2
"beliefs based upon observation"
?!
RuthieWeLoveYou 3 years ago 4
@mujtahid2006 This is factually incorrect either way. It has nothing to do with observation, as things we observe or cannot observe may seem to be other than as they are. I can wear 3d glasses and observe something on a screen to be popping out at me, but it isn't. It has to do with EVIDENCE. I'll fix your sentence for you: "Rationality is concerned with beliefs based upon evidence".
ShaolinSoldier 1 year ago
If the rationale for theism is that the universe requires an origin thus the origin must be God, but we claim that God does not have an origin because by it's nature it is infinite, then why can the universe also not be considered infinite, since neither the infinite God nor the infinite universe has ever been observed? And does not the infinite God have an equal degree of evidence as the infinite universe?
trueuniverse2100 3 years ago 4
Do Atheists thing the universe had no beginings?
Mussaheem 3 years ago 2
Atheists just do not believe in god/gods. Everything else has nothing to do with atheism. Including the origin of the universe.
Kratzbyrste 3 years ago
This video made me laugh.
Basically mujtahid is saying that his god is so very special that he doesn't leave evidence for his existence behind, so seeking evidence for the existence of his god is irrational.
Muslims and christians are completely deluded, and it would be funny as hell if you savages weren't killing so many people along the way.
frid9999 4 years ago 2
this video made you laugh, wow you have a weird sense of humour. You also lie, why do you lie, I mean cant you make a valid argument against Mujtahid without making stuff up, (Basically mujtahid is saying that his god is so very special that he doesn't leave evidence for his existence behind, so seeking evidence for the existence of his god is irrational) I think youre watching another video, he never said or implied that.
mohamadyomar 4 years ago
> he never said or implied that.
Sure he did. He went to great lengths to try to pass off belief in a god which is invisible, silent, untouchable, and which has never been measured or detected in any way as rational. Allah is some sort of super special creature which does not show itself to us - which provides no evidence whatsoever for it's existence.
Allah is almost certainly makebelieve - a lie. And to hear you muslims dance around the vacuum of evidence IS funny.
frid9999 4 years ago
I was in the toilet taking a dump this morning and an angel came to me. That angel informed me of my prophet hood. Yes, God chooses to have another prophet because it's been a while and a lot of people have chosen the wrong path. God tells me to clarify things. I'll make a book soon. If you think I'm irrational I guess you're not paying attention to the video at all.
ElleMao 4 years ago
Islam is just a refurbished christianity
sinner013 4 years ago
man this guy takes a while to get to a point
i see wer his coming from but i dun get the whole idea..
viktoria989 4 years ago
Stop spamming videos with your Sikh crap.
yamah101 4 years ago
@sicksingh, go to the SIKH2ISLAM website. Go to MY PROFILE to get the link! ITS CRAZY, Sikhs leaving SIKHISM 4 ISLAM!
Sikh2Islam 4 years ago
What would you do if Allah appeared to you tomorrow and told you something different than that which is written in the Quran? Would you continue to follow Quran and say that vision was false or would you follow vision and say that Quran was false?(and no cop outs like he would never do such a thing). BTW saying 110% is irrational, if something is cut into 100 pieces, you can only produce 100 pieces, not 110.
lITheEmissarylI 4 years ago
No, he was one scribe. The one who compiled the textual form of Quran was Zaid bin thabit and four others under his supervision, his work has given us the written copy, not Abdullah bin Sa'ad. Abdullah bin sa'ad later converted back to Islam btw.
mujtahid2006 4 years ago
I agree with you simply because I recognise this chain you speak about. But you should take more time to explain the rationality behind every point in several dimensions and repeat it. Also, I agree that with your baby example, though from a different angle and I agree that Islam is an ideology, simply called religion since it has a God. Good work for me, but not enough for unbelievers
Catz007 4 years ago
Simply put this guys logic is amazingly ........... BBBAAAADDD !!!!!! Is this the best logic to explain rationalism in Islam?
ChuckyHammer 4 years ago
LOL, what bullshit!
steelersX01 4 years ago
The New Testament repeatedly declares that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was crucified and resurrected to both pay for our sins and to make possible our salvation, but the Qur'an expressly denies all these things. The Qur'an says Jesus was not crucified. (Surah 4:157-158). The Qur'an teaches that those who believe in the Blessed Trinity are dung.
cheekybeggar 4 years ago
So its Irrational to believe in the Big Bang,(for which we see evidence in the expansion and geometry of the universe) but it is Rational to believe that God (a very complex dude) Just exists eternally, outside space and time. btw, Allah called, he says your beard is too short.
kev3d 4 years ago
I don't think that the universe has existed forever. I think that it has existed for billions of years because we can see stars billions of light years away.
orangustang 4 years ago
Message from god? Grow up.
MaxInfidelis 4 years ago
He is VERY, VERY boring. He's one of those muslim twats at Speaker's Corner who has really dragged down the tone of debate generally. Hell, can't muslims just improve their vocabulary and erudition about their own crappy 'faith', then they would be worth debating.
That rock thing in Mecca, rationalise that.
blueskyfuture 4 years ago
And there are no converts to Islam, just reverts... I was never part of your religion, so please do not suggest it. I am not, and never am going to be, born into Islamic oppression like so many are in the Islamic world, not by choice, but by birth!
BrainDrained2000 4 years ago
If God created the universe, who created God?
BrainDrained2000 4 years ago
I prefer to think that God functions within His laws in ways that we don't understand. If He bends or breaks the "laws", then they are not laws, but imperfect.
fosenteskotia 4 years ago
mujtahid could've benefitted from an entry-level philosophy course rather than all the theology. this video, and most religious videos, leave me rooting for the speed of evolution so this planet can rid itself of this awful cancer.
did he just say 110% rational?... whew!
AgamemnonIV 4 years ago
im an atheist and i don't think the universe is eternal...i'd find it hard to find any that do, seeing as since has stated our universe to have started at a finite point. i'm sure a lot of atheists have already commented on this point.
RogAgainst 4 years ago
mujtahid2006, don't worry, I'm done arguing with them, I'm not going to take up comment space anymore with debate spam. =)
gavingoo 4 years ago
It is cause I say so, no it is cause I say so, no, no no no no no BOO00M
who won the argument?, wha ah ah ah at? Is anybody there ere ere? Where am I i i i. What was that at at.
how do I stil think ink ink ink. Where am I now ow ow.
God? are you there ere ere
schmuckit 4 years ago
pt2 summation of all the BS. It may be logical fallacy, but the end result is the same. : 0~
All this talk, makes me horny. Wheres my Wife? dang, I got to hand it to you or me in this case.
schmuckit 4 years ago
pt1 Bunch of silver tongued devils.
Lets just go back to clubs and beat the shit out of each other.
Quit inventing new words out of thin air. No one think, it is bad, because the new club is a nuclear weapon.
The whole world will suffer this time. How is this for Logic and Natural selection? Natural Selection through man will lead to global suicide, regardless of ones stance. We are at that very door. It was nice while it lasted. (cough)
schmuckit 4 years ago
I am an athiest, at a very hard push gnostic (not agnostic), and I believe the universe has the beginning. It is scientifically rational that the universe has beginning, and for reasons that follow proven statements, and not scripture.
Tranxhead 4 years ago
Communism and capitalism are ECONOMIC systems, Islam is not.
Proving once again Islam is a relegion of the poor and ignorant.
jdubbs530 4 years ago
god is infinite = unwarrented, unevidenced statement
This video is full of logical fallacies, and crap.
When will you fools ever take logic 101?
prophetwrangler 4 years ago
Slow down speed racer. You're a little ahead of yourself there. It is only logical that whatever created all existence is in fact: Eternal, Infinite, Trascendant...etc Makes sense seeing as all space and time itself were created at the Big Bang along with everything else.
gavingoo 4 years ago
" It is only logical that whatever created all existence...."
You already commit a fallacy. There does not nessesarily have to be a creator. Because you don't know, you cannot speculate on if there is a "creator", let alone the characteristics of one.
prophetwrangler 4 years ago
There has to be a creator logically. A painter is one who paints, a Creator is one who creates. The universe was created from nothing, so it had a creator. The only thing I have to do now is show to you that this Creator is Eternal, Transcendent, Absolute, One, Perfect. All His attributes compliment one another.
gavingoo 4 years ago
There has to be a destroyer logically. A painter is one who paints, a Creator is one who creates, a destroyer is one who destroys. Some things have been destroyed, at some point ever, so those things had a destroyer.
All I have to do now is show you that this Destroyer's favourite colour is purple, likes Woody Allen films, and drinks strawberry milkshakes on Wednesdays.
There. All proven just as rationally as your Creator.
gibletparade 4 years ago
Once again, like your whirl pool, destroying is a created act that happens within the universe. It has no relevance to the objective observation of creation in our universe (all existence), because again, the Big Bang is self-implied, a unique event, most fundamental. . Your argument would say there is no evidence of 1 + 1 = 2. You're right about one thing, it is God who gives life and death. God is also the Punisher, All-Merciful...etc
gavingoo 4 years ago
Your repeated use of the bizarre idea of something being "self-implied" and what you say about 1+1=2 shows you really don't have the ability to understand what rationality even is and I'm bored of leading you round in circles.
Whatever it takes for you to go on. If you have to think you're rational. If you have to think there's a god. I just hope the voice in your head doesn't start saying nasty things one day. Good luck.
gibletparade 4 years ago
You're right. It's time to end, you're going to believe what you want. I'll believe what I want. What appears like going around in circles to you is me not letting you spin off the reality of what creation is and what the Big Bang clearly and logically implies (creation). I request one thing, remember that: Nothing is not a creator or anything, and the universe came from nothing, so be honest with yourself and you'll start seeing the plain truth. Peace
gavingoo 4 years ago
One more thing to help you understand the distinction.
Destroying is a generic act, it can be intentional or unintentional. Creation can't be unintenitional, because it involves ogranization, information from nothing. EX: A book or a computer can't come about by accident, Universe is no different (cause it came from nothing-Nothing isn't a creator). Things can't come from nothing unless there is a creator to create it from nothing, because NOTHING is not a creator.
gavingoo 4 years ago
so... if 'No-thing' is NOT a creator, then the opposite is being asserted; namely that 'thing' IS a creator. Now which part of shirk do you not understand? Nice fantasy but not Islam. It is the creation of 'thingness' that is shay-tan and as such is then NOT creator itself - only the empty shell of an abstracted mental construct - a 'thing'. Now there are 2 choices: either Allah is shay-tan (thing-ness) or that "Al-lah" is 'No-thing'... The first leads to shirk, the second to gnosis.]
XN0R 4 years ago
Great effort... Mabruk alaikum!!!
bladeweilder 4 years ago
All religions need to take a step back from your holy books and take them for what they are. Collections of stories that help your human brain cope with what can't be comprehended by the science. Ever wonder why since the modern times, the books have stagnated? We can explain more with science than ever before. Religion isn't bad it helps calm you in times of trouble and relieve anxiety about death, life and origin of life. Bad men can use it to pollute rational thought through blind faith.
yourandy 4 years ago
That was so incoherent. It should be explained by somebody who doesn't rushoverallthecomplicatedpoints!
FatherChrismas 4 years ago
Was Mohammed the last prophet? why didn't god send any more prophets after him. does he think the word of one can confince us all? are we not just keepers of the earth and are we not destroying our earth at the same time. it's irrational to kill to defend your religion because killing is never allowed if you believe... only non-believers are allowed to kill and offcourse god is allowed to kill people or am i wrong?
erwinleppens 4 years ago
Ok if God created the universe then who created God? Please someone enlighten me!
Enkelejas 4 years ago
god can only exist as long as we believe in him. he was created by human mind... have you ever seen an animal pray? as long as you beleive in santaclaus he can exist and evryone around you will confess to his existence
erwinleppens 4 years ago
No one should be dissing each others faith. I'm atheist, but I don't say "ALL PEOPLE WITH FAITH SUCK/(ARE IRRATIONAL)!" If someone said that to you then shame on them. Saying "atheism is irrational" kinda fans the flames if that's your intension then grrr.
thisisgabe 4 years ago
Atheism is irrational? Not a chance. It is the most rational position. You ASSUME that a god is necessary to "create" the universe. THAT IS IRRATIONAL. Blind faith? There is no FAITH in ATHEISM. No wonder the world is in shambles.
clockworkhorrorshow 4 years ago
First off I'd like to point out that atheism isn't a belief system, it is simply the lack of belief in deities. You can belief anything else under the sun as long as its not related to a god. Second, science does not claim that the universe had no beginning (i.e. the big bang theory). The difference between science and religion is that science seeks truth through natural causes not super natural, and will never claim to have all the answers.
Swidhelm 4 years ago
In order to have a "lack of belief in something", you first have to "believe" that there are no reasons or basis in order not to believe in something in the first place. Atheism is classified as Shirk in Islam as far as I know, because in order to deny God, an atheist will simply attach His attributes to the universe, for example: Infinite Universe, Eternal Universe...(those are God's attributes).
gavingoo 4 years ago
Supernatural explanations have a perfect record of always being proven false, so far. What has been revealed about nature by the scientific method has replaced supernatural explanations with better ones. Examples: Sickness caused by germs not evil spirits. Earthquakes as geological, not God's anger. The list goes on. Gods are imaginary. People who believe in them threaten the survival of humans on Earth.
cordt1 4 years ago
I am a Muslim, but I do not believe capitalism is irrational. I think its extremely rational. But, I also think it ignores other variables.
btw, I studed Economics
farhan00 4 years ago
isnt it true that muhamed had faked some miracles if not all, to grow in popularity ? I heard that a pig had dug up on of mohameds props in the ground that sprout water from the earth, and mohamed was so angered by this uncovering of his trick that he cursed the pig and thats why pork is forbidden by muslims.
CHAKASHAKA 4 years ago
dude are you wearing make-up...?
abdullahzs 4 years ago
Your 1st statement was that christians are irrational and you agree with atheists about that. Well, Christians also believe that god can bend the rules of nature to allow Jesus to perform miracles. You just used the SAME ARGUMENT to support Muhammad.
When christians pray to Jesus and believe a prayer has been answered I call it coincidence. I wonder what YOU call it when you are the one praying to your prophet?
ginoggg 4 years ago
"praying to your prophet?" -- Muslims don't pray to the Prophet, they pray to the incomparable intelligent Originator of all of existence. In Islam, Prophet Muhammad is a human messenger, in a long line of messengers (at least on this planet), who received revelation (Quran) from The God.
avempace000 4 years ago
OK, try it this way:
The 1st statement made was that christians are irrational and you agree with atheists about that. Well, Christians also believe that GOD can bend the rules of nature to allow Jesus to perform miracles. You just used the SAME ARGUMENT to support ISLAM.
When christians pray to Jesus or God and believe a prayer has been answered I call it coincidence. I wonder what YOU call it when you are the one praying to your "incomparable intelligent Originator of all of existence"?
ginoggg 4 years ago
keep it up bro. Doing great. MashaAllah! I love your vids. Tearin' up the illogical baseless arguments.
RezaTheBeliever 4 years ago
Yea right.
ginoggg 4 years ago
The problem is, if someone has a pre-set opinion (preconceived notion) that something can't exist or there can't be any worthy evidence for it, then no matter what evidence is brought forth to them, they will deny it. It is a universal ignorance. Its why people are atheists, some still support George Bush, some are still racist, some still believe in Big Foot. It goes both ways. This is what it means when their "hearts are sealed".
gavingoo 4 years ago
I think with my brain, not my heart. My mind is open. If there was evidence, I would accept it. Why else would I even be asking for it?
I note you have not even attempted to tell me HOW those things are evidence. Really, I'd hate to see you on a jury if this is what you think is evidence!
Let's try this way: What is your favourite proof of the existence of god?
gibletparade 4 years ago
What a silly ironic statement. You think with your heart everyday, this is why you deny things. Your heart being sealed from understanding God's signs doesn't negate it. You can change, but it requires you being honest. I don't have a favorite proof of God, and you shouldn't worry about it. Mujtahid's video gives you plenty of evidence, you're just running in circles.
gavingoo 4 years ago
My understanding is the brain does the thinking; the heart pumps blood. Does the koran say otherwise?
There is no evidence in mujtahid's videos.
Yes, I'm going in circles: 1) Someone says theism is rational, 2) I ask what's the evidence, 3) they present anything but, 4) I point this out, 5) they call me names, then back to 1.
Next.
gibletparade 4 years ago
Obviously physical heart is not the heart I talk about. Its not my fault if you don't understand the simple logic and rationality of Islam. I gave you a site from harun yahya, you have Mujtahid's video right here...etc There is countless research you can do on the internet.
gavingoo 4 years ago
I find a lot of things saying they are rational arguments for god, but anyone can see they presume the acceptance of god, rather than argue for it. Indeed, you have refused to indicate a single example of one which does otherwise.
Anyone who thinks there is evidence or good arguments in these videos, well, maybe they do indeed do their thinking with a muscle.
gibletparade 4 years ago
Its not that an atheist heart is sealed. We just see too many discrepancies in organized religion to consider it viable. And with science ever adding natural explanations for things once thought the result of the super natural it is simple following a line of logic that allows us to dismiss gods.
Swidhelm 4 years ago
Well science has never needed to add natural explanations for every one. Muslims already knew about these natural explanations once thought supernatural. If you accept the Big Bang, that is the most fundamental event and is self-describing. It states: The universe came from a point of infinite density from zero volume. (something from nothing). That is creation by definition.
gavingoo 4 years ago
Big bang theory doesn't include the idea that someone purposefully did it. Why not it simply happened?
If Muslims knew about the big bang all along why didn't any one say anything about it until science came up with the idea?
If you think the koran contains scientific ideas like that, you can prove it to us now by now telling us the answer to things science is currently working on, before it finds the answer.
gibletparade 4 years ago
It doesn't have to. It's the simple logic of the event that those who user their intellect can understand. The origin of the universe is creation by definition and with creation; there is a creator. If you see a computer in the desert, you know it was designed even though you don't know who placed it there or where it was made.
gavingoo 4 years ago
Something coming into being does not imply a creator.
That "logic" is something some people resort to when they don't understand how something came to be. When I don't know how something came to be, I don't conclude "a magic man done it". It is not logical to do so.
Really, Paley's watch is very rusty these days. That argument has been gone over so many times. I refer you at least to Dawkins' "The Blind Watchmaker".
gibletparade 4 years ago
For those who understand simple logic it does. You make the foolish mistake of thinking that unless you see God physically, there can't be any evidence or greater sign of creation. Using your logic, the computer in front of you has no evidence of being designed by humans, because you didn't get to see it fabricated in the factories. Moral of the story, study Big Bang cosmology and you'll learn that the universe was created - had a beginning at a single point.
gavingoo 4 years ago
I do understand logic and coming into being at a single beginning point does not imply a creator.
Even if I had not built the computer in front of me myself, the purposes of computers are human ones, and they are clearly designed. There is plenty of evidence of where computers come from.
You seem to say that because you don't know where the universe came from, there must be a creator. I'm sure that if you don't know how computers are made you wouldn't say a god made them! Or would you?
gibletparade 4 years ago
1 + 1 = 2? Right, using that simple logic now: if something is created*, it was because it had a creator*.You're supposed to have reference to plenty of evidence of computers being designed; we also have plenty of reference that the universe was created through various experiences and logic. The universe didn't come from anything anywhere at any time; it is the beginning of all existence including space and time LITERALLY. Meaning something Eternal, Absolute, Transcendent..etc (all describe God)
gavingoo 4 years ago
Ok, maybe I see our problem. Let's try it this way:
Something coming into being does not imply that it was created.
gibletparade 4 years ago
Let me add a word for you: Something coming into being from nothing is creation by definition and DOES imply a creator.
gavingoo 4 years ago
So we've found the basic point on which we differ. You see something existing as evidence of a creator because you think it must have been created.
Imagine watching a stream from its bank, and seeing an eddie briefly appear for a moment. There is no divine individual with a drawing board planning it, defining its circumference etc. All the physics going on just then happened to conspire to produce it at that moment. Why should the universe and life should be any different?
gibletparade 4 years ago
No one thinks it must have been created, they know it has if they are honest and see the simple logic. You can't compare the Big Bang (creation of the universe); the most fundamental event to watching a stream from its bank, you're changing the subject. Actually, the fine tuning of the universe (including laws of physics) only serves to prove creation more, its one more great sign.
gavingoo 4 years ago
Sorry but you are wrong there. Very few people I know "know" the universe came about in an intended act of creation. In fact it tends to be the proudly less logically-minded ones that believe in a creator.
So this puported rationality of belief in god seems to come down in the end to the idea that people just sort of know it? No rationale after all?
That is rather disappointing, after such a grand claim.
gibletparade 4 years ago
Only you are. Goto Nasa's web page, they all refer to "created" in regards to the Big Bang. Whether you believe in God or not is your choice, but it won't change the reality of creation. The universe was created at a single point of infinite density from zero volume (aka: creation).
gavingoo 4 years ago
There's a danger our discussion is becoming semantic, but perhaps that's progress.
In the same way a whirlpool is created with no intentional act, why must the universe be different?
Something being created does not imply a creator who is some individual with intentionality.
The key point is you have not rationalised this teleological position. You confuse making statements consistent with the position, with rational arguments supporting it. You have made the former; not the latter.
gibletparade 4 years ago
A whirlpool isn't a Universe, whirlpools form out of existing matter, they don't come from nothingness literally. Creator's create, the universe was created (came from nothing), therefore, it has a creator logically. Not to mention the fine tuning of the universe. And yes, something being created (from nothing) does mean it had a creator, that is why it's called: created. Whirlpools form, created, formation, make are all different words.
gavingoo 4 years ago
Why the distinction? Existing matter or not, something coming into being (created, made, whatever) does not in itself imply a creator-being at all, never mind of any particular form.
Again, you state, but fail to rationalise.
gibletparade 4 years ago
You are making this hard for yourself, it's not a hard concept, I promise. The Big Bang is self-implied, the creation of the universe is a raw observation. 95% of scientists accept this fact, atheist or not. Once you accept that fact without denial, I can show you other great signs that God (specifically) created us (Qur' an, design of life, fine tuning of the universe...etc)
gavingoo 4 years ago
BB is not "self-implied". It is implied by evidence.
It is not a sign of god! What a wild connection.
gibletparade 4 years ago
I have to thank you. You unwittingly made a very important point that almost slid past me. God is the Creator, Destroyer, Rejouvinator, Originator, Giver of life, giver of Death...etc, all things that happen in this universe are because of His Will. So again, you're right, when something is destroyed, there is indeed a destroyer.
gavingoo 4 years ago
A few more baseless claims unsupported by any reasoning.
Be clear, I've nothing against anyone believing anything it takes for them to stick to human morality. Saying a belief is rational is another thing. Again, I'm not objecting to that either, just inquiring what the rationale is. Despite countless opportunities, nobody here has provided one.
gibletparade 4 years ago
It is irrational, and supremely egotistical, to think that the creator of the universe chooses to speak only arabic.
Also, and i'm sure you've heard it, but one more repetition won't kill you:
Who created the creator?
Elvisdogg 4 years ago
that question is as irrational as saying "why is the sky always red?"
The attributes of created things nessesitates the need for an external originator. Whereas the attributes of a infinite and unlimited thing does not necessitate that question since it is not in need of external definition or orignation.
mujtahid2006 4 years ago
Origin is an attribute of the continuum (space and time) so it is meaningless to say something created the universe which is the continuum. Though you could say that the universe is part of God however as there is nothing else this would make God the universe. The only possible option is that God is the creation or the universe created God which does not make sense based on the nature of God.
Curse274 4 years ago
I think it would help people to understand your rationality if you explain what you mean when you say "infinite". You seem to use it to mean "does not need creating", as other things, such as the universe, you say are "finite", which seems in your mind to imply "created".
I think this is the key thing to explain. Why do you think the "finite" requires a creator, and why is it only a creator that is "infinite"? What are the rational steps towards these conclusions?
Or are you being irrational?
gibletparade 4 years ago
Gible. Take your word games elsewhere. Infinite means infinite. Finite means finite. Eternal means Eternal, Infinite means infiite. 1 + 1 = 2, not anything else. Don't deceive yourself.
gavingoo 4 years ago
Thanks Gavingoo but those questions are directed to mujtahid.
They're not word games, but an honest attempt to explain what it is I don't understand about his claim that theism can be rational.
Please understand I don't have a problem with irrational beliefs. I have them myself. I'm simply intrigued by the claim and so want to understand it.
gibletparade 4 years ago
mashallah. atheists don understand God because they think God is a part of existence-God is beyond existence--He created existence. Subhanallah.
thetruth778 5 years ago
Quite the opposite. They know god does NOT form part of existence - does not exist.
gibletparade 5 years ago
You're right for once, but ironically it goes against you. God is beyond our existence itself, He's Trascendent. In reality, only God exists in the true sense, we don't. Think of creation as like a shadow. Only God is Absolute, we are limited to the created laws of the universe.
gavingoo 4 years ago
We don't exist? Descartes realised "I think therefore I am". How ironic.
gibletparade 4 years ago
No, i think he/she meant a higher level of existance than us. I think thats a lame arguement anyway, because you can m