This is where you find a similarity in touch. However Ngo Cho Kun has roots in 4 other systems too (plus what not is mentioned), so when doing Chi Sau with a Ngo Cho Kun practitioner you will experience the additions of tension, gripping and pushing hands within it; this is the difference. Neither is right or wrong. (btw this is the tail to my last comment as i had to right it in 2 parts) =)
This si fi is very good in powerful arms rather than techniques of chi sau. General speaking, chi sau is a way to learn how to react with your partner in the sense of natural feeling. However, si fi is only to demonstrate his power to block his partner's attack.
ok to make things clear to people out there. In Ngor Chor or five ancestors fist, our chi sau is different from wing chun. it is free style chi sau and the aim is more like tai chi, which is to keep in control of the oppoenent and to learn the forces. unlike wing chun chi sau which is based on hitting the opponenet, our chisau is based on controlling the opponent with every part of our arm and hands. with control comes the ability to hit as you like.
Where did you get that from??? "unlike wing chun chi sau which is based on hitting the opponenet" The whole exercise in Chi Sau in winchun is not to it the person, its mainly to build sensitivity in the arms.
Imo this guy has good chi sau. Wing chun doesn't have a monopoly on chi sau just because they are a prominent style which uses it. Lots of kung fu styles do chi sau of some kind, it comes from shaolin. Also, there is a huge variance in how chi sau is practiced within wing chun.
The way you can tell sifu is good is that he achieves victory with ease. He is able to see and make use of weakness in his partners, and their efforts to resist are not successful
Like i said before you are still at the level where you see shapes. Shape is the end result or product of the action ! Tan is the opening action itself but again kung fu novices will only see a shape. Bong is the action of floating/opening or deflecting /opening depending on intent and again Yap is past needing shapes. Making judgement on clips is always tricky as the viewers are at different levels of experience. Nothing personal just stating a fact.
chi sau is a sensitivity drill, its for improving your touch reflexes, ie deflecting, redirecting opponents energy, i have a feeling this guy doesnt know much about chi sau, there is chi sau in other styles mainly chinese and okinawan styles, and it is used for the same purpose, sensitivity/reflex training.
it is obvious, your comments come from your experience which i guess isnt that comprehensive, to say that this guy doesnt know much about chi sau is just rubbish, He is a top five ancestors Sifu, who i have to say has an immense amount of listening and energy, defeating many practioners of styles from both China and okinawa.
I see, that sort of make sense. Chi sau (I think means stick hands?), is just to improve our sensitvity and reflex. I think you do have a point if i'm understanding your post. Beginner needs a structure (like alphabets), before they can freestyle (like writing any sentences). Because if we begin with freestyling, anyone could be doing it right?
You wont see those 'shapes' because your eyes are not trained to see them but they were present. Also YL is not playing Wing Chun Chi Sau. There are many traditional kung fu styles besides Wing Chun than share the same tools as the human body can only move in so many ways.
I have known Sifu Yap Leong for many years, is kung fu is one of the best, his internal strength is amazing, you want learn good kung fu, then he is the man.
your 21 yrs and five sifu kung fu is just mouth, if you cant say anything intelligent then dont bother, if you think the structure isnt important then i suggest you get refunds from all your masters. i see you still havent made that video yet ! ? Just shows you how lousy wing chun really is !
Every Martial System will work in theory but it is the skill of the individual that has to be measured. The fact of the matter is that Master Yap is better than his partner. It's irrelevant what style he is practicing. Any real "Master" would understand that so if you think that 5A is better than Wing Chun that's fine. But that is not based on fact, only personal preference.
kung fu critic i would be really interested to see your chi sao on u tube do you have anything you can put up ? I think you rate yourself too highly. if what you say is true then how come ip chun and other respected masters are seen executing bong tan pak sau in their top level chi sao. surely they are over the three years training you describe as "for beginners"
what an insult ! go on put up your video i can lend you a camera if you like.
Its no insult just fact. Only beginners think in 'shapes' . Advanced people react to energy accordingly and the shapes are nothing more than but a possible end visual. People only show shape because it is easier to demo plus it is easy to copy. Its not what a Tan Sau looks like but what the action of 'opening a tan' achieves. So it does not have to look like a perfect tan it just has to perform the task for which it is intended for. Now i suggest you find yourself a proper instructor.
You put emotion before fact ! Structure can be divided into both Biomechanical structures and posture structures which are held together through intent and muscular energy. Stage Wing Chun usually demostrates the former but when one reaches a higher level both types of structures are displayed inorder to flow effectively. As a result you will see less of the robotic actions as biomechanical structures are only one part of the overall equation. Novices see shapes. What's the make of your camera ?
the yi is the important thing. not everything is about shape. when you practice you use shapes. but in the end when you reach a level in which you do not just hit for the sake of hitting instead to hit with intent you will understand.
actually darkside is thinking more of wingchun style. and i think this sifu is sort of trying to just show methods of his art. but finger grabbing?? as long a fingers a 'soft' and drops I don't think this is a good demo...i think 5 ancestors has more to offer but not visually though...
By the way kf critic im not Sifu Yap Leongs student i am a wing chun guy who has be shown the error of my ways by a very skilled and powerful martial artist.
kung fu critic you miss the point or rather dont see the point in my comment i have stated that it is down to the skill and experience of the person you yourself say that you have never seen it done this way before so where is your knowledge of this coming from ? if you think my words will divide the community then i thank you for giving me the power to do so. my response was informative not patronising. I would be happy to show you some time.
I agree its the skill of the practitioner. But most importantly like i said you should be away from shapes after 3 years of training. Just because you have been shown the error of your ways is just a reflection on your own level of understanding and comprehension. That is not to say it applies to me or anyone else. If you were still doing chi sau with Tan Bong Fok then off course he rightly should have shown you the error of your ways ! Its not personal just my oponion
kung fu critic i would be really interested to see your chi sao on u tube do you have anything you can put up ? I think you rate yourself too highly. if what you say is true then how come ip chun and other respected masters are seen executing bong tan pak sau in their top level chi sao. surely they are over the three years training you describe as "for beginners"
what an insult ! go on put up your video i can lend you a camera if you like.
@sillumkuen ngor chor chi sau is different from wing chun chi sau. it is formless. we aim to control rather than hit. in essence, it is more like push hands than chi sau. our chisau is mainly to train sensitivity, emmision on jing and the controlling of an oppoenent with all parts of the arm and hand
rlam86 unlike some other chi sao methods this method has no predtermined actions or starting position everthing is in the here and now. As you dont know what your partner is going to do you have to read and then produce a counter so therefore there is no list of techniques to apply. just skill and experience. unlike say WC where it is pretty easy to fathom out a counter as the structure is fixed (bong sau, tan sau Pal sau etcc)
Actually with due respect you are not strictly correct. After 3 years you should be out of those fixed shapes which is really for the beginners. Its a bit like a fruit machine with 6 wheels, the combination is endless. So like your Sifu Said in his vid, its the skill of the fighter ! Comments like yours will only divide the kung fu community so i suggest more thought & thorough research before you hit that keyboard.
But what do you mean when you said by "just skills and experience"?. How do you develop those skills? Do we just randomly act spontaneously? Or is there a procedure/structure we need to initially learn as beginners? Because if it's one of those spontaneous thing, wouldn't anyone be able to do so?
Probably YL best vid so far. But i can still see that he still prefers both his hands of top. When he did have his hands on the bottom the other guy made no attempt to press centre or hold.....in fact he didn't even react. Not to say that YL couldn't really hit him but the other guy made no attempt to control centre. But he was right about it being down to individual skill !
There is no such thing as proper Chi Sau and its certainly not a style a lot of people are doing as i have never seen it done this way before this clip !
darkside by name and darkside by nature it seems, obviousley you are making some big comments and seem quite enlightened in the verbal arts,it would be nice to see your actions perhaps to back up your mouth lap sap,why dont you post up your skills for us all to see? perhaps you should take note of an ancient saying' those who speak know little'. Sifu yap leongs power and skill is second to none and he talks with his fists!
Darkside, perhaps you could tell me what proper chi sau is ? dont tell me its wing chun, why is it wing chun practioners think
that there chi sau is the only one. how narrow minded. Sifu Yap Leong has in fact played with many practioners from various styles including wing chun and has yet to be beaten.
In sifu Yap leong's method of doing chi sao, although he says it's unpredictable, have he established a list of major possible counter for each position yet? It'll be good to briefly know counters for counter stuff, if u know what i mean
Darkside, it seems You are missing the point - chi sau is about sensing something you might not be able to see. Go back to school or come and visit - but beware you might get your darkside kicked hehe.
This is where you find a similarity in touch. However Ngo Cho Kun has roots in 4 other systems too (plus what not is mentioned), so when doing Chi Sau with a Ngo Cho Kun practitioner you will experience the additions of tension, gripping and pushing hands within it; this is the difference. Neither is right or wrong. (btw this is the tail to my last comment as i had to right it in 2 parts) =)
EmceeDeluxe 2 months ago
This si fi is very good in powerful arms rather than techniques of chi sau. General speaking, chi sau is a way to learn how to react with your partner in the sense of natural feeling. However, si fi is only to demonstrate his power to block his partner's attack.
814yanyan 10 months ago
ok to make things clear to people out there. In Ngor Chor or five ancestors fist, our chi sau is different from wing chun. it is free style chi sau and the aim is more like tai chi, which is to keep in control of the oppoenent and to learn the forces. unlike wing chun chi sau which is based on hitting the opponenet, our chisau is based on controlling the opponent with every part of our arm and hands. with control comes the ability to hit as you like.
rekcufeht 2 years ago
@rekcufeht
Where did you get that from??? "unlike wing chun chi sau which is based on hitting the opponenet" The whole exercise in Chi Sau in winchun is not to it the person, its mainly to build sensitivity in the arms.
ottalese 1 year ago
Imo this guy has good chi sau. Wing chun doesn't have a monopoly on chi sau just because they are a prominent style which uses it. Lots of kung fu styles do chi sau of some kind, it comes from shaolin. Also, there is a huge variance in how chi sau is practiced within wing chun.
The way you can tell sifu is good is that he achieves victory with ease. He is able to see and make use of weakness in his partners, and their efforts to resist are not successful
samuraisam007 2 years ago 4
Respect !
imkev25 2 years ago
Like i said before you are still at the level where you see shapes. Shape is the end result or product of the action ! Tan is the opening action itself but again kung fu novices will only see a shape. Bong is the action of floating/opening or deflecting /opening depending on intent and again Yap is past needing shapes. Making judgement on clips is always tricky as the viewers are at different levels of experience. Nothing personal just stating a fact.
kungfucritic 2 years ago
chi sau is a sensitivity drill, its for improving your touch reflexes, ie deflecting, redirecting opponents energy, i have a feeling this guy doesnt know much about chi sau, there is chi sau in other styles mainly chinese and okinawan styles, and it is used for the same purpose, sensitivity/reflex training.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
it is obvious, your comments come from your experience which i guess isnt that comprehensive, to say that this guy doesnt know much about chi sau is just rubbish, He is a top five ancestors Sifu, who i have to say has an immense amount of listening and energy, defeating many practioners of styles from both China and okinawa.
sillumkuen 2 years ago
I see, that sort of make sense. Chi sau (I think means stick hands?), is just to improve our sensitvity and reflex. I think you do have a point if i'm understanding your post. Beginner needs a structure (like alphabets), before they can freestyle (like writing any sentences). Because if we begin with freestyling, anyone could be doing it right?
rlam86 2 years ago
You wont see those 'shapes' because your eyes are not trained to see them but they were present. Also YL is not playing Wing Chun Chi Sau. There are many traditional kung fu styles besides Wing Chun than share the same tools as the human body can only move in so many ways.
kungfucritic 3 years ago
Hi Guys,
I have known Sifu Yap Leong for many years, is kung fu is one of the best, his internal strength is amazing, you want learn good kung fu, then he is the man.
jg7788 3 years ago
Chi Sao is a drill, it is not a contest. Wing Chun is a combative art and not a Sport. I am aware of the ever changing perspective on this.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, it is much appreciated.
-trenoops
trenoops 3 years ago
what ever you say you have no credibility
your 21 yrs and five sifu kung fu is just mouth, if you cant say anything intelligent then dont bother, if you think the structure isnt important then i suggest you get refunds from all your masters. i see you still havent made that video yet ! ? Just shows you how lousy wing chun really is !
sillumkuen 3 years ago
Every Martial System will work in theory but it is the skill of the individual that has to be measured. The fact of the matter is that Master Yap is better than his partner. It's irrelevant what style he is practicing. Any real "Master" would understand that so if you think that 5A is better than Wing Chun that's fine. But that is not based on fact, only personal preference.
danjh1980 2 years ago 2
Well spoken bro
disco11donkey 2 years ago
kung fu critic i would be really interested to see your chi sao on u tube do you have anything you can put up ? I think you rate yourself too highly. if what you say is true then how come ip chun and other respected masters are seen executing bong tan pak sau in their top level chi sao. surely they are over the three years training you describe as "for beginners"
what an insult ! go on put up your video i can lend you a camera if you like.
sillumkuen 3 years ago
Its no insult just fact. Only beginners think in 'shapes' . Advanced people react to energy accordingly and the shapes are nothing more than but a possible end visual. People only show shape because it is easier to demo plus it is easy to copy. Its not what a Tan Sau looks like but what the action of 'opening a tan' achieves. So it does not have to look like a perfect tan it just has to perform the task for which it is intended for. Now i suggest you find yourself a proper instructor.
kungfucritic 3 years ago
You put emotion before fact ! Structure can be divided into both Biomechanical structures and posture structures which are held together through intent and muscular energy. Stage Wing Chun usually demostrates the former but when one reaches a higher level both types of structures are displayed inorder to flow effectively. As a result you will see less of the robotic actions as biomechanical structures are only one part of the overall equation. Novices see shapes. What's the make of your camera ?
kungfucritic 3 years ago
in the end, it is the "yi" not the "shape"
a chinese martial art saying
Zai yi bu zai xing
the yi is the important thing. not everything is about shape. when you practice you use shapes. but in the end when you reach a level in which you do not just hit for the sake of hitting instead to hit with intent you will understand.
rekcufeht 2 years ago
actually darkside is thinking more of wingchun style. and i think this sifu is sort of trying to just show methods of his art. but finger grabbing?? as long a fingers a 'soft' and drops I don't think this is a good demo...i think 5 ancestors has more to offer but not visually though...
YodaTheName 3 years ago
By the way kf critic im not Sifu Yap Leongs student i am a wing chun guy who has be shown the error of my ways by a very skilled and powerful martial artist.
sillumkuen 3 years ago
kung fu critic you miss the point or rather dont see the point in my comment i have stated that it is down to the skill and experience of the person you yourself say that you have never seen it done this way before so where is your knowledge of this coming from ? if you think my words will divide the community then i thank you for giving me the power to do so. my response was informative not patronising. I would be happy to show you some time.
sillumkuen 3 years ago
I agree its the skill of the practitioner. But most importantly like i said you should be away from shapes after 3 years of training. Just because you have been shown the error of your ways is just a reflection on your own level of understanding and comprehension. That is not to say it applies to me or anyone else. If you were still doing chi sau with Tan Bong Fok then off course he rightly should have shown you the error of your ways ! Its not personal just my oponion
kungfucritic 3 years ago
kung fu critic i would be really interested to see your chi sao on u tube do you have anything you can put up ? I think you rate yourself too highly. if what you say is true then how come ip chun and other respected masters are seen executing bong tan pak sau in their top level chi sao. surely they are over the three years training you describe as "for beginners"
what an insult ! go on put up your video i can lend you a camera if you like.
sillumkuen 3 years ago
@sillumkuen ngor chor chi sau is different from wing chun chi sau. it is formless. we aim to control rather than hit. in essence, it is more like push hands than chi sau. our chisau is mainly to train sensitivity, emmision on jing and the controlling of an oppoenent with all parts of the arm and hand
rekcufeht 2 years ago
rlam86 unlike some other chi sao methods this method has no predtermined actions or starting position everthing is in the here and now. As you dont know what your partner is going to do you have to read and then produce a counter so therefore there is no list of techniques to apply. just skill and experience. unlike say WC where it is pretty easy to fathom out a counter as the structure is fixed (bong sau, tan sau Pal sau etcc)
sillumkuen 3 years ago
Actually with due respect you are not strictly correct. After 3 years you should be out of those fixed shapes which is really for the beginners. Its a bit like a fruit machine with 6 wheels, the combination is endless. So like your Sifu Said in his vid, its the skill of the fighter ! Comments like yours will only divide the kung fu community so i suggest more thought & thorough research before you hit that keyboard.
kungfucritic 3 years ago
But what do you mean when you said by "just skills and experience"?. How do you develop those skills? Do we just randomly act spontaneously? Or is there a procedure/structure we need to initially learn as beginners? Because if it's one of those spontaneous thing, wouldn't anyone be able to do so?
rlam86 2 years ago
Probably YL best vid so far. But i can still see that he still prefers both his hands of top. When he did have his hands on the bottom the other guy made no attempt to press centre or hold.....in fact he didn't even react. Not to say that YL couldn't really hit him but the other guy made no attempt to control centre. But he was right about it being down to individual skill !
kungfucritic 3 years ago
There is no such thing as proper Chi Sau and its certainly not a style a lot of people are doing as i have never seen it done this way before this clip !
kungfucritic 3 years ago
Does anyone here know if this clip from a new Yap Leong dvd? If so then when is it coming out?
Thanks.
TangFist8 3 years ago
darkside think before you speak!!!
TangFist8 3 years ago
And what is the actual point of chi sau?
To move in a set pattern with your training partner?
It is mean't to be unpredictable.
thesidewindersleeps 3 years ago
darkside by name and darkside by nature it seems, obviousley you are making some big comments and seem quite enlightened in the verbal arts,it would be nice to see your actions perhaps to back up your mouth lap sap,why dont you post up your skills for us all to see? perhaps you should take note of an ancient saying' those who speak know little'. Sifu yap leongs power and skill is second to none and he talks with his fists!
jostik888 3 years ago
Man, there are so many people posting critique on some of these martial arts videos.
I am sure most of them are pimply 4th formers with a great skill for "googling" loose facts then posting them.
I dont know why, maybe darkside wants to feel like a kung fu master!! ha ha ha
I would not even waste Shifu Leongs time in asking him to block all the crap that people like darkside post.
Maybe his "darkside" is the side where someone gave him a blackeye!!! ha ha
thesidewindersleeps 3 years ago
Darkside, perhaps you could tell me what proper chi sau is ? dont tell me its wing chun, why is it wing chun practioners think
that there chi sau is the only one. how narrow minded. Sifu Yap Leong has in fact played with many practioners from various styles including wing chun and has yet to be beaten.
sillumkuen 3 years ago
In sifu Yap leong's method of doing chi sao, although he says it's unpredictable, have he established a list of major possible counter for each position yet? It'll be good to briefly know counters for counter stuff, if u know what i mean
rlam86 3 years ago
Darkside, it seems You are missing the point - chi sau is about sensing something you might not be able to see. Go back to school or come and visit - but beware you might get your darkside kicked hehe.
WuZuPan 3 years ago 4
Nice!
veaxer 3 years ago