Dan Savage: How Gays and the Religious Right Will Reconcile

[NYerintransit]

One thing that gays should never do is give up on believing in God. Because unlike homosexuality, belief or nonbelief in God actually is a choice.

[Erik0072]

You'd bee 100x cooler if you said you were related to randy Savage. 

[Shonenut213]

This is why im libertarian. I think gays deserve the same rights a straights.

[Cwagmire]

@Shonenut213 They have the same rights. Gays are really fighting for gender equality (sort of), not sexual orientation equality. Straight men have the same rights as gay men, and straight women the same as gay women.

[Pilaf1984]

If you ignore all the bullshit in the Bible, there's really nothing left.

[Wavooka]

It seems to me that ignore a lot of crazy bullshit in the Bible.

Could there actually be any more bullshit left?

[emeraldthane]

The Bible is only relevant to people of a couple thousand years ago. Stop trying to justify all the crazy crap that is in the Bible. Saying it is only the Old Testament that advocated slavery is just pointing out how there is contention in the ranks of Christians. It changed only instead of telling you how to be a master to how to be a good slave. That is still advocating slavery. Bringing S&M into the discussion, and "faggotry" is not a good parallel. With our "faggotry" there is consent.

[arcangel050692]

As a moderately conservative Christian, I don't know that I would say that I would consider homosexual actions morally acceptable, but I do not consider it to be an exceptionally horrendous sin, and I do not think that being homosexual in of itself is a sin, just a vulnerability to a different sin from what others are vulnerable to. Kind of like some people are more at risk than others of alcoholism, some for immoral heterosexual activity, some to anger problems.

[cbcbarzarz]

@arcangel050692 That's nice, but it has nothing to do with the content of this video. Your book is full of demonstrably evil and stupid things, and it's high time you let all the superstition go.

[DuppyBruh]

@arcangel050692 "as a moderate conservative blah blah blah, blah blah"

you might as well have written, I think homosexuality is wrong but im different from "not real christians" because i've found a way to circumvent my own beliefs, that way I cant keep believing them. (and hopefully with less critisism)

and the "vulnerability to a different sin" argument I think proves my point. If you believe that homosexuality isnt a sin, what could it lead to that is a terrible sin? sex without conception?

[DuppyBruh]

@DuppyBruh *can* keep believing the beliefs

[superclaydude]

@arcangel050692 Homosexuality is not of itself a sin yet homosexual "behavior" is? You're living with a contradiction. Open your eyes, "archangel," and realize racism and homophobia and cultural elitism should stay in the past where they belong.

Almost all socially conservative positions, except, perhaps, the greyer issues such as abortion and immigration, are morally reprehensible any way you put it.

[arcangel050692]

@superclaydude First of all, your last statement is coming from an imperfect human being, and is every bit as subjective as any viewpoint I could take. Secondly, I'm not homophobic, I have homosexual friends. Additionally, I do not look down on people for being homosexual(or anyone else for that matter), to call me a cultural elitist would be ridiculous, and I'm confused as to where you pulled out the racism thing from.

[tuck295q]

Hitler should have burned the Bible. Oh wait, he liked them. :D

[superclaydude]

@tuck295q Boooo!!!

[tuck295q]

@superclaydude Boo? ummm, the statement I wrote is actually pretty funny and historically true. Hitler actually burnt every single books that was written by Jews and scientific articles. But he is a Roman Catholic, that's why he didn't burn the bible, worse he loved the Bible. Dude, I'm gay -_-

[cnce145]

that;s true

[TheCrazyGuy91]

@ElCubanoConguero No it doesn't have a negative view of slavery! "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) & Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT). These are just two quotes from Jesus, the book is filled with things like this. The thing about slave girls is awful read exodus 21:7-11.

[TheCrazyGuy91]

@ElCubanoConguero This one is also straight from Jesus "The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Dude, if you need to defend your religious documents so much, the chances are that it's deeply immoral.

[TheCrazyGuy91]

@ElCubanoConguero I qouted the same quote twice, that was not my intention... here is the one i was going to put up.

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

[ElCubanoConguero]

Nobody takes Savage seriously except for other brain-dead fags and left media retards. He deliberately lies about the bible because it exposes his vile lifestyle. Savage has AIDs Dementia, a malady common in males that ingest sperm and take it in the butthole. That's right, Savage spreads his cheeks and takes penis' in his butthole. he tries to clean it up but it gets everywhere and he has learned to live with it.

[zacthebold]

Figs? What does the bible say about figs?

[WilliamLongfellow]

@zacthebold There's this one episode where an out-of-season fig tree doesn't give fruit so Jesus gets pissed off and curses it. Dunno if that's what Dan's talking about but it's weird and surreal.

[rrekydoc]

As for the top two comments, the Bible is an important part of recent humanity and should be not only explored taught as a source of historical influence like the Art of War and Epic of Gilgamesh, but also as a religious document like the Iliad and the Epic of Gilgamesh (again).

Ignorance solves nothing.

[mattfirebird]

@rrekydoc - I completely agree. Because The Bible is surrounded with controversy that alone makes the contents alluring to the curious. The danger is reading it with a certain mind that might lack the ability to think critically and investigate it.

[phoenix3370]

@rrekydoc True. Also to do what these conservative christians haven't and learn to put what the bible says into the context of what was going on in the world at the time and how many times it's been deconstructed, reconstructed and translated from one language to another.

[parachutepants101]

He just owned the Bible.

[antidoteco]

who cares what this ^^^^ piece of garbage thinks

[Cormac11822]

I agree with almost everything he says. HOW things are said is extremely important. I wonder how many good, open-minded Christians click away when he starts swearing? - for no apparent persuasive reason- he starts swearing. Why?...he loses a opportunity to make an otherwise persuasive point.

[leejs]

How will gays and the religious right reconcile? If we are to judge by history in America, they'll probably reconcile in some airport bathroom somewhere.

[MRKENNYGARDNER]

I totally disagree with gays and religious rights...not in my life time///i think religious people are just a bunch of fanatics

[phoenix3370]

@MRKENNYGARDNER Go on Grindr and Scruff, you'd be surprised how many gay men label themselves as Christian. I found it staggering.

[shallfrisch1]

obviously you don't understand the bible and the laws within Mr. Savage. Where I feel you have made many good points in other videos. Your stance on the bible and it's laws are a stance of one who does not truly understand it.

[Neanderthalcouzin]

i dont know why, cos I dont mind swearing, but I dont like Dan Savage swearing.

[mylene0wnt]

What's the stance of the Bible on polyester, I wonder... hum?

[tuck295q]

Wow, someone remove my comment about religion is not needed as long as we have Sci Fi movie and Philosophy. Shame.

[MrSmashman1981]

Just drop the Bible entirely, problem solved

[ElCubanoConguero]

@MrSmashman1981 You will be LONG dead and buried, eaten by worms and the bible will still be being read by millions. Hey, looks like you're the ONE THAT WILL BE DROPPED. DROPPED STRAIGHT INTO HELL FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY! lolzzzzzz

[MiddleFingerToTheSky]

@MrSmashman1981 America has Freedom Of Religion. Get Over It, if you don't like it you can move somewhere else.

[blattt188]

@MrSmashman1981 When you live under an anti-biblical hierarchy that's responsible for ALL your problems, the last thing you want to do is ignore the only thing holding back totalitarian enslavement. I guess if you're an anti-Christ than nothing really matters but yourself anyway.... never mind.

[IzaFaqat]

oh look some fag is dissing religion, a new youtube hero!

[Snoep76239]

@IzaFaqat It's not religion, it's "religious" people who use the use the bible as an excuse to hate..

[IzaFaqat]

@Snoep76239 He's talking about "bullshit in the bible", i'm not christian so it doesn't personally offend me but what annoys me is how kids these days how obviously never picked up an actual book let alone the massive collection of books that is the bibe have so much to say about it.

[Snoep76239]

@IzaFaqat I agree, people who have not taken the time to read ANY religious tome have no business criticizing it.. At least Dan knows his bible though.

It's the *people*, Christian, Jews, or Muslims who twist "their" religion to further their own agendas, hate and bigotry are the ones who will burn in Hell if there is one.

[YaleBreaker]

@Snoep76239 As a concept yes, religion isn't inherently hateful or loving. As an addition to that, I think we shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that a religion = its holy book. A religion is the sum total of its texts, people, history, and actions. If I can call a person who doesn't take the WHOLE Bible literally a Christian, it follows that Christianity isn't just the Bible...and that Christianity can be judged by Christians, and not just the Bible. The same applies for other religions.

[rrekydoc]

@YaleBreaker

Actually, I believe you're referring to "religious communities", in which case you are more correct than anyone else I have ever read and I applaud you for it. Twice. But true "religion" is only a personal belief.

[YaleBreaker]

@rrekydoc You're very kind.

[TheShinobiSan]

But who' s to say one side of the conflict is the correct side when the word "reconciliation" in and of itself implies that both sides need to pull their weight to solve the issue? As for the Bible, not taking it as literally as Southern Baptists and Catholics do is not the same as ignoring it outright.

[TheShinobiSan]

The truth is that both side have a moderate majority that is unfortunately outtalked by that one militant dumbass and his/her pack of cronies.

[TheShinobiSan]

For example, with respect to racial equality, both whites and blacks has their weight to pull to reach that goal(this is coming from an afro-american). Same with gays and the religious.

[TheShinobiSan]

I'm sorry, but saying Christians should ignore the Bible is like saying that Gays should stop thinking about people of the same gender. In addition, notice how Mr. Savage only presented one side of the issue.

[shraka]

@TheShinobiSan Yes... the correct side. Christians already ignore the Bible.

[DrAmorphos]

How about just ignore the Bible?

[tuck295q]

@DrAmorphos How about ignore the book entirely!

[smurfboywv]

@tuck295q Can't do that. You have to believe in God to get his rewards.

[phoenix3370]

@DrAmorphos 41 year old gay man here, who has learned that it is important to not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Also, like Dan Savage has, it's important to read the Bible, just so you're not afraid of what's in it any more. Read the Koran, Read the gnostic gospels. Don't be afraid to find something useful. Here's a challenge. Google "The Lords Prayer translated from Arramaic" it says something totally different from what you've been taught. So does the Bible

[DrAmorphos]

@phoenix3370 I have read the Bible and I just don't think it is as ethical as people presume. There was nothing new in the Bible that wasn't already around in human tradition and literature...and whatever good bits there might be are ruined by the relentless hypocrisy, blood lust and maniacal supernatural tyranny.

Id rather rely on more modern secular and humanist philosophies...baring in mind we are like 1000 times smarter than bronze age shepherds.

[MiddleFingerToTheSky]

@DrAmorphos So now gays want to take rights away from others. Good to know that. Gays are just as evil as crazy religious people are.

[superclaydude]

@MiddleFingerToTheSky Holy shit, you're a homophobe.

[iconindy]

@DrAmorphos I think I love you and I'm as straight as they come.

[DrAmorphos]

@iconindy why thanks very much;)

[enazhovis]

@DrAmorphos Baby steps...Baby steps.

[luisguillermojg]

@DrAmorphos You could. You can, of course. Personally I'd just keep Ecclesiastes: there's some fine writing in there. And I haven't gotten to the Song of Songs, but I hear it's pretty sexy.

[blattt188]

@DrAmorphos Says the anti-moralist who would rather watch all the children burn than face his own immorality.

[DrAmorphos]

@blattt188 anti-moralist?? We need a definition of what morals you're referring to first...you moron!!

I'm guessing your a guessing your a christian by the needless dredging up of child-burning imagery. I don't believe in Hell, so no children will be burning for eternity in my world view...maybe yours...definitely yours!

[brotherdarek]

figs? 

[picasso3000]

I love Dan Savage and I love his response to this question. It gives me hope and I pray it will give hope to people who are both religious right and gay. The message I got from this is that there isn't anything wrong with those people. They don't need to give up either part of themselves.

[sinedeocodex]

Bullshit.

[Jusplais]

He spoke acurately tin the "sluts' documentery. Here he misses that misogyny is not ignored. Desperate housewive has the adam and eve iconolgoy on it. we hear that slanderous lie as a reason for women to submit to their husbands all the time. Even joice meyer the tv avangelist " you can be a female leader and still submit to your husband"

[panikpapagei]

oh boy, if i would be christianic and american, i would really be pissed off by those right wing haters that totally screw and get everyone an awful idea of the religion

[sillykatz]

Yay Dan, as a gay christian who doesn't believe in taking the bible literally, I can't wait till we get there!

[sixxopa]

Don't think you LISTENED to all of Dan's speech. There is no WAY is can be characterized and bullying.

[tommy2toneish]

Christianity is the first women's liberation, women were given a place in society and in a marraige the women was to be loved and treated kindly, Mary, we call her the God bearer has been the most adored person aside from Christ by Orthodox and Catholics, not something too popular before, Saint Paul told Philemon to treat his runaway slave as a brother, Saint John Chrysostom called slavery an abomination in the 4th century, just a couple more fruits western civilization owes to Christianity

[alanthacker2000]

@tommy2toneish It's true! Most of the moral triumphs of western civilization have been made possible by brave visionaries (like those saints that you mention) willing to take a stand against some of the more ghastly things that the bible advocates.

I'd be interested to know what individuals you revere who have been instrumental in elevating women above the rather pitiable status assigned to them in marriage and society by the bible. You know, as those saints did with slaves.

[tommy2toneish]

@alanthacker2000 Well the Bible was written over 3,500 years but if you consider the environment believe it or not St. Paul did much for women when he told the Christians to treat women with kindness and understanding, much different than the previous and surrounding mentality, also the Church itself offering monasticism to women a place where they could live tranquil lives in prayer as opposed to having children and not being able to say when to stop...cont

[TomFynn]

@tommy2toneish No, Paul did not. You are cherry picking: 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Timothy 2:11-15 and 1 Peter 3:7.

"offering monasticism to women" LOL, it was not offered. Monastery was for those women who did not find a husband, or got pregnant without one or got divorced. It was *not* offered.

"Christianity practiced in its perfection" No True Scotsman fallacy. Look it up.

[tommy2toneish]

@alanthacker2000 In our age we take these things for granted but when considering a moral triumph you must put it into context. St Paul wrote in the Bible something along the lines of in Christ there is no male or female free or slave jew or gentile, this showed that in God's eyes (and should be in our eyes) that all have equal dignity and we must treat all people with love and respect as if they were our own brothers and sisters or even more intimately, an extension of ourselves...cont

[tommy2toneish]

@alanthacker2000 Christianity practiced in its perfection is the religion of love, but being sinners in a fallen world we all fall short of perfect love, don't judge by appearances but the true substance of a thing

[tommy2toneish]

@alanthacker2000 I am assuming people take it as a great offense to call homosexuality an abomination, well proverbs also calls varying weights and varying measures an abomination, and the new testament says that what is held in high esteem among men is an abonimation in the sight of God...the Christian right is not picking on gay people or at least it shouldn't, because most things we do are just as sinful, from war to thoughts that don't make us better people (vain or idle thoughts)

[mouthpiece200]

Either believe the whole Bible or none of it - there is no in between. However, those Old Testament references are taken out of context, and if the Hebrews differed in a few culture ways, how arrogant of us to say we know better.

[NotMyBirthday]

I love and support Dan Savage but i disagree with him. Christians do not need to change themselves just to meet your approval just like you don't need to change yourself to meet their approval.

[boenrobot]

@NotMyBirthday I think it's more about them changing in order for them to approve of him, not for him to approve of them. In other words, it's about him needing their approval without him changing.

But of course... religious people (Christians or otherwise) changing... I think we can agree that's a hard thing to do.

[NotMyBirthday]

@boenrobot Im am bisexual and i am Christian. Sometimes i think Dan Savage forgets that their are many LGBT people out their that are Christians. They love God and just because he is anti God he attacks Christians. Being religious is nothing bad and I'm sick of rude people calling others stupid because they believe in God. I have no problem with people who do not believe in a God but to make fun of me because i believe in God is crazy. Sometimes Dan Savage is a bully.

[boenrobot]

@NotMyBirthday Believing in God and being Christian are two different things though. Christian doctrine has doctrines against... non-heterosexuals (bi and homo alike). I'm an atheist, and I don't consider people who believe in God stupid. Ignorant, yes, (as it lacking knowledge) but so am I when it comes to the details of most scientific fields. When atheists (including Dan Savage) talk about "Christians" they mean non-secular Christians - those who use the Bible as excuse for political views.

[alanthacker2000]

@NotMyBirthday It's pretty clear that Dan's issues are with extreme, right-wing "Christians" whose main focus is on insuring that what they believe maintains its privileged place in what is supposed to be a egalitarian secular society.

If you think that the rights of everyone, regardless of their religion or non-supernatural system of thought should be equal, then Dan isn't talking to you.

As a bi-sexual, have a conversation with Dan, then with Focus on the Family.

See who "bullies" you.

[Kruezoraxe]

I say throw the entire Bible out. If we're going to ignore some of it because we consider our moral sense to be better, then we should ignore all of it and go by that moral sense.

Frankly, I would rather worship @Ypthor. Odds are, you are a decent person and a far better person than the God of the Old Testament.

[NotMyBirthday]

@Kruezoraxe Im so sick of people grouping Christians together into one. I am a Christian and i also am bisexual. You ca pray that religion goes away but in the end it will not. You really need to look at yourself and see how much hate you have against Christians. You have the same amount of hate that CERTAIN RIGHT WINGERS have against the gay community.

[Ypthor]

hashtag fail :)

[Ypthor]

How much of it has to be ignored for people to realise it's a #FAIL?

[pnarey]

Christians need to ignore the bible is both unrealistic and undermines what it is to be a Christian. All books are not equal in the bible. Christians put emphasis on the new testament, specifically the gospel. Christians ignore all the "bull shit" about women and slavery for several reasons most of which comes from the new testament. The only way Christians will reconcile with homosexuals is to combat hate and preach love on both sides.

[NotMyBirthday]

@pnarey So because you don't agree with someone's religion you want to force them to change. America has freedom of religion. You might hate it but we have it. Every american can follow their own religion. You can not try and change someone's religion just because you do not agree with it

[rgnko7]

Absolutely right well said!