Rotaries are not banned from Le Mans or sports car racing, the FIA banned them in that day and age because the rules were completely gone over and the rotary did not meet the displacement rules that were coming out, they also were harder to put limits on as typical piston engine cars.
Japanese Mazda cars are now tainted with high levels of nuclear radiation from Japan's recent nuclear disaster. This Plutonium-238, 239 and 240 will increase your incidence of cancer, infertility and sperm damage.
I find it ridiculous that whenever a vehicle gets too good in motorsports it's banned or receives unfair limitations to give others a better chance at winning. They should just allow it, which would do nothing more than force other companies to try new things to get better, instead of sitting there crying like children because the other car is too good. boohoo! if you can't beat em, make something better!
@deggis4 hmm.. i actually didn't know some of that stuff that was posted earlier. didn't see it on the front page when i posted. was info i never actually heard. interesting stuff, and thanks for pointing me towards it.
@mangaloveFTW Not this s**t again. Rotary was not "banned". Just because it won a race during the last season of the old Group C regulations, ignorant fanboys want to believe it was banned. Rotary never was a dominating type of engine in the first place. Mazda got it's (only - and they took part several seasons in the World Sportscar Championship +Le Mans) race victory in 1991. The new engine formula was set in stone in 1989/1990 and 1991 was already a transitional year.
@Antonio001z yeah , it could be done ... but the outcome would be the equivalent to , come on guy just one more drink .... of alcohol , after you've closed the bar down after partying all day on a Sunday afternoon ...
crash & burn ... no way to harness the power or alcohol ... LOL
Also under later wsc rules after the demise of the short lived 3.5 liter class a man namned jim downing continued to run mazda rotary powered cars and had some success before his kudzu and later WR derived chassis proved uncompetative against the new riley and scott mkiii and ferrari 333sp cars he found himself racing against.
For all you guys who mistakenly believe this car was banned after 1991 because of a unfair advantage, don't kid yourself, this car won on its reliability only, the reason it never ran at lemans again is because the fia and the aco adopted new fourmula 1 derived wsc rules for 1992, making the only legal cars to run in this catagory those based off of 3.5 liter motors. And actually mazda raced a new car using a judd motor and a jaguar xjr14 derived chassis the following year.
@RamonNFSpro i read (in a respectable magizine) that this car was allowd to run 150kgs lighter than every other car. its a great car but... 150kgs is alot! thats like a passenger and a child, or one american... jokes.
@xb250power That was just part of the confusing separation between "C1" and "C2" classes in 1991. C1 cars were compliant with the new 3.5 L engine rules that became mandatory in 1992. All other cars, complying with the old GrC regulations, were in the C2 class. Not sure according to what criteria FIA/ACO set the minimum weights for the C2 cars.
@xb250power, haha you're so clever with your American quip. not really get some originality (and before you comment on my weight I'm 53kgs). This car is amazing though. Hell if they ran it to a higher RPM than they limited it to, it probably would have decimated the competition. Its sad really that they banned rotaries from competition. It really is a capable platform that is more efficient than piston engines. Just, maintenance and wear can be an issue with them.
@mediarocker543 actually in racecar applications, it has proven to be a very reliable engines! The mazda team opened the engine apart after the 24 hours, and they came to the conclusion that it'd be able to run another consecutive 24 hours!
@razioth, I never said that they weren't reliable. They are very awesome engines indeed, however they don't really have a market except the "performance market" because most people are Morons and treat their rotaries like normal motors, then they damage them and they wear out prematurely. They are excellent motors, and I know it could have run another 24 hours, but for the general public who knows nothing about cars, they get called a nuisance unfortunately. :\ I love rotaries.
Yeah that 4 rotor engine is reliable because it was properly machined and rebuild by professionals. Also it NA which takes quite of bit of stress off the seals. They are excellent race motors but come with a high rebuild rate just by design.
@greenbastard619 Really? how old are you? because noob or newb can be used for alot of things not just computer games, Noob. Do you even know what noob means? fucking noob!
@TrollTheory lol. Noob is derived from "newbie". in turn shortened to "newb" then to "noob". Ii means someone is inexperienced. It makes you sound retarded when you use it outside the gaming realm.
@greenbastard619 Oh you silly Noob, you didn't awnser my question how old are you? lol your using google to find out what noob means how pathetic. Also your the only one who thinks it is retarded using Noob(you) outside of gaming, notice how my comment has 2 thumbs up and yours have none? It makes perfect sense that if you dislike this you would be Noob to rotarys or hate them because of your noob knowledge.
@greenbastard619 In what respect? You'd be hard pressed finding anyone that believe you should use proper 'wording' on the internet. Also, noob started in pc gaming, and moved onto the internet. It fits just fine.
@Swansen03 This diesel vs. petrol thing is then again is a very different thing. Despite diesel's plus sides essentially the regulations have made diesel superior. Large displacement and two turbochargers are required to make up for the cons, so the rules have given them those two things. Only reason for this is that the two biggest manufacturers involved in the sport want to market diesel. Never before Le Mans has been this much about marketing instead of real innovation.
@henrii123 Interesting interpretation of history, since Mazda used rotary engines for several seasons in the World Sportscar Championship. Before Le Mans '91 it had not won a race. And it did race until the very last race of the '91 Championship but continued being an underdog. If it was "banned", how this was possible? It is possible because it was not "banned". The regulations changes for season 1992 were set in stone possibly already in 1990. It's legend now, but that doesn't erase history.
@deggis4 to clarify a bit, and, lots of into out there, my understanding is, yes, rules changed, regulation was set into place and HP standards made. NIssan was making a 1200hp car. So, with the new changes, and this is where the interpretation plays, Mazda hadn't really done so well with this car, however, there was difficulties classifying the rotary engines against piston engines. oddly happened after they won. although a wankel may displace 1.5L, its said to be 3L etc, this is the issue.
@Swansen03 now, to the next point, the ban was only for a short period(a few years i believe) and has since been lifted. My understanding from this point is that Mazda switched builders for quite often and it was difficult for them or reliably work out bugs from their engines. With all that instability it led to the platforms demise from racing. It wasn't necessarily the engines downfall, just the teams constant flip-flopping.
@Swansen03 Maybe. Anyway, rotary engines have been allowed at least since the LMP regulations were formed around 1999/2000. The "ban" - and I refrain to use that word without quotation marks - basically only lasted one year. The new engine rules came for 1992 season, but that was also when the Championship was cancelled at the end of the year. Same cars were still used for the 1993 Le Mans race, but from onwards 1994 there was no Group C and any continuation of the rules ends there.
@adinlouw you don't have to donate your family jewels to see it. You just have to get a plane ticket to the Mazda factory Museum in Hiroshima where they have the Lemans winning car on display.
mazda was banned because of the weight requirement but then again it was the first japanese to beat the amls so i appreciate mazda and its rotary advancements mazdaspeed baby
Keep in mind that the rotary has the best record of endurance racing than anything else made. it has the fewest breakdowns per entry for the engine that any other car. It has won more endurance races that it is participated in per entry than any one. In Le Mans alone, it is tied for most finishes/ entry with honda that only raced 7 cars total. Honda never won a race though. Easy to put it down when racing bodies wont let it race to prove otherwise.
@alexoprel yeah...i gues that anything with an internal combustion engine should be alowed to participate...but in diferent categories. This decision by the staff of Le mans was stupid... "it's very reliable so you r in advantage so u'r banned"....c'mon how is the tecnology supposed to evolve with that kind of decisions? If wenkel was to good than the "normal" ones should do something to keep up.
to me the car isnt legendary. its a very nice car, but it won le mans only one time... but not even a single other victory... its nice because it has proven that the wankel works... but still not legendary. and by the way... the FIA did not change the rules because of this car. the rules have been changed before 91. and not because the wankel dominated, which they didnt. i like the car but its not legendary. for me the porsche 917 or 962 are legends of le mans. because the won it several times
@bavarianbass Ive heard different things about the rule changes despite what wiki says..but not shure..still it didnt get the chance to be legendary wich I personally feel even as a porsche fan it could have been. It made 700hp for a 2.6 NA engine. but revs were kept low for endurance, it actually made 930hp on 10,500 rpm..That is impressive..so I'd say its legendary in the fact it was the only japanese non piston engine to win the race..and1st, 6th n 8th kinda a domination.
@chandni89xOx you meen the gt3 r hybrid? it did almost win at the 24h of nurbürgring-nordschleife... only 1 and a half hours before the end the engine blowed up... they were superior and first that point of the race
@bavarianbass true the rules were changed before but, keep in mind that the rotary has the best finish per entry of any maker. the changed the rules partly due to this car though. If other companies were not scared of this car, why not let it keep racing. The rules are biased towards piston engine anyway. It is legendary cause no other asian car maker has ever won lemans even to this day.
The only Japanese car I have ever owned and likely will ever own, is a Mazda. Mine was a U.S. spec Turbo II but they are all good, the RX7, any RX7 I love them, especially the older ones. I remember in '85-86 some rich kid at school (undergrad) had a brand new GSL SE, silver.
@mchlor Im 6'4" and I fit into to my JDM 1992 Rx7 just fine but my brother @ 6'10" doesnt fit, well he can get into it.but cant turn...LOL knees get in the way, so u gotta huge like him is my guess.
@james6speed, "rotaries are outlawed", I can't defend myself against a comment I didn't make and as such cannot, "tell you more".
My apologies on that one.
I talked about blocking the car from competing and how this will always be talked about. They created the monster themselves.
Rotaries are still eligible to race in some series today, but sadly they haven't been embraced by the general circuit racing community because they are bad for business. Ditto, on the awesome.
Anyone who bags this car is delusional and there IS NOW and NEVER WILL BE any hope for an improvement in the condition of your head in the foreseeable future!
Rotarys rule and few will admit it because it hurts to get your guts ripped out.The Le Mans officials have damaged themselves by changing the rules and the stigma of blocking this car will remain a legacy for a damn long time to come. It doesn't matter why the 787B was not eligible to to compete,just the fact that it was not.
was the 4 rotor setup banned? If not I don't understand why mazda doesn't campaign the 4 rotor in LM prototype. is it not economical enough to compete? it certainly makes the power, i see the 4 rotor in drag racing all the time sending the competition home crying.
At 6:20 the guy laughs as the guy driving says "So sorry...I left poo on your seat" Then he laughs again when he says "Don`t tell my wife.....but I want to fuck your car!!!"
Lastly, acting like you know something when you dont and having it pointed out to you as BS is sad. Care to have me point it out again, I will if I have to or you can quit digging that hole behind you before you fall in it.
I can arque with you all day long because I learned many things of people who have REAL rotary engine experience and knowledge, and because SAE papers of real RE development are sitting in front of me. ALL the info is on the internet, search... (maybe it wil be just to much for your stomach to take it when you acting like idiot and caling BS on me) have fun, I´m done with you.
You could not argue breathing to someone effectively. If you had any clue to what you were talking about, you would not be making junk up based off of something that is not apples to apples as you just did several times. You rank up there with aji8 now, might be related, i dont know but neither of you have any basis of proof of what you are trying to argue so it is pointless. when you have a basis and can actually put related facts together, let me know. bye
I am not a mazda cheerleader but, I am correcting the BS that people say about the rotary engine. I will do this to you as well. I have my facts in order but, you sure dont. First you use the 700hp tune to try to make a point that is based off of a tune that you know nothing about. Mazda detuned the engine and until you have the details, you can speculate all you want. Mazda says it did what it did for a reason. the whole junk about the 60s and 70s is BS.
I humbly recommend you to do research. I used torque value of 700HP tune for several reasons: Engine is not going to produce more torque in higher RPMs because Indicated mean friction pressure will be higher and VE% is also not going to increase to overcome this so your argument falls...
No you are not correcting BS, you are only spreading what you heard/read.
I recommend you stop pretending to be an engineer/rotary specialist and learn to look up things and use some thing that many in the rotary community do.....COMMON SENSE you have none. Your assumption that the engine will not make more hp at higher rpms is bogus. It as been proven to in every rotary built and the 787b had 3 plugs per rotor. they have not built a production car like that so you have NO comparison. Again you are throwing up BS with no basis.
my point about the rotary in general is that so much has yet to be tried due to not having much R&D. Even today you can take an old 13b and use renesis rotors that are lighter. One day they may be able to use aluminum alloy rotors. they already are going to try to use an all al block and not just the rotor housings. So much technology that has yet to be tried. rotors themselves have only changed size 3 times in production cars. tons to be tried.
Again, you are just showing your closed mind. Everything has been already tried, again, you didn´t do your research. Al rotors were back in the 60s, titanium and such also... Direct injection(real high pressure, no BS like 16x) has been fully developed and it worked flawlessly. All this stuff was done by NASA, Curtis Wright, John Deere... This was pinnacle of wankel engine development.
Almost nothing has been tried. I looked it up. You dont see titanium rotors or sides. They have not tried it due to costs and the technology in the 60 was nothing like it is now. mazda is already trying an all al motor now. They have not done direct injection either. NASA doesnt use rotaries and never has. CW dropped the engine in the 70s. John deere ditto 70s. It was not the pinnacle as the 13b wasnt developed and put in production til the early 80s. You are making yourself look bad on this.
FAIL FAIL FAIL, Titanium rotors has been tried, Direct injection-not only John Deere and NASA, but also NSU, MAZDA... Again you didn´t do your homework... I could direct you to right sources(not mazda commercial shit) and prove again how you know nothing about rotary engines and history of development.
You call 13B pinnacle? 13B geometry is biggest fail of mazda rotary family...
You dont know what you are talking about and you missed the point cause you dont understand what i was saying. NO WHERE DID I SAY THE 13B WAS THE 'PINNACLE' OF ANYTHING. STUPID!!!
Why you deleting your comments?You realized that you failing so hard?
You are such Mazda cheerleader,you stubbornly claiming mazda this,mazda that,but you can´t accept the fact,that many people without mazda sponsorship did better,much better.And if you didn´t seen it or heard it,your problem.Ignorance is bliss...
I deleted my comments cause I misread one of yours and deleted it cause I was wrong as you confirmed the possibility of the 900+ hp and i missread that you said it was not possible. I deleted those comments based on that. the comment about 370hp 13b is wrong to my knowledge but, if I see a dyno showing otherwise, I will concede on it as well.
You are not going to see a dyno, do you thing that all people who had done hard work developing these high HP combinations will let cat out of the bag?? And again dynos can be influented but not numbers at drag strip.
13B PP N/A, 2050 lbs. 9.8 sec. 138+ MPH 1/4 mile, do the math
the figures above mean NOTHING. do you not understand that.... I know you dont cause you make the same aimless statements that mean nothing. not a thing. you assume and it shows just what you know, nothing.
Fact is, the 12a and 13b can make 300+fly hp. Fact is, 900+has been done by mazda with a 4 rotor that was in the 787b and was detuned to keep up reliability. Another fact is that Le Mans is an fast and reliability race. Lastly, fact is, the rotary has the highest percentage of finishes (tied with honda but honda only entered 3) than any other maker. One last fact, rotary won 100 IMSA races faster than any other maker including the great porsche. Its all FACTS. disappointed in you seven.
they will be banned in gocart racing and snowmobile racing and everything else before you know it. So little R&D and still it runs like the wind. Look up wiki and scroll down to specs to see the 900+ hp at 10,500 rpms. It was taken from the museum itself.
another fact for you. its funny how the 3.5L rule only lasted 2 seasons. porsche won with a 3L in 1994. as I said before, they banned the rotary with bs rules and mazda just lost interest. No point in putting money into a car for a race that changes rules just cause they complain about something better. Mazda proved it was more reliable and won. After that, they concentrated on other racing. funny how they are not allowed in f1, indy, nascar and reclassed in most every other kind of racing.
it had nothing to do with luck. majority of the cars breakdown in the race and is why it is so important. look it up as I did at Le Man's archives page. Mazda has the most start/finish percentage of any maker and tied with honda as they only entered 3 cars. it was a matter of time before the rotary would have dominated the race. the engine had very little wear after the race. Everyone else was breaking down and everyone knows this, hence why diesel is doing well.
the ruder comments were for supersevenn as he made bogus comments about the car and rules govning FIA. The car was banned in that it was regrouped into c2 with fuel restrictions and not in the old group it won in c1 and fuel restrictions were lifted in 92 with the new 3.5L rules. He also said that the #55 was not good in the japan series. It wasnt built for the japan series, it was for Le mans. Lastly it didnt race after the win ever again. the rudeness was not aimed at you. my apologies.
I have no beef with you on the comment you made. I have read in a few places that the car was able to be tuned to 900+ hp and they used 700 for reliability reason as this car was just about brand new when it debuted.
The best looking racing car I've ever seen, bar none. Some said the paint job was naff. I love it.
Not the fastest car in a straight line but the low C of G and short wheelbase meant it handled like a go kart and had excellent brakes. Steering was apparently very heavy though.
Herbert didnt drink enough and collapsed when he got out of the car. there is a vid on here of him being interviewed. If you have not seen it, check it out.
Thanks, I've seen it (more to the point, I've read the transcript). From the Wiki article:
"On the day before the race, team manager Ohashi decided to drop his usual conservative strategy and instructed the drivers of the #55 car to drive as if it were a short sprint race."
Yeah, I know: Wiki isn't always the most reliable reference. Mazda had sorted their fuel economy problems before the race so the only real question was reliability, which they were rightly confident about.
yes they did drive it much faster than before knowing reliability was on their side. :) they didnt post the fastest mph or lap time but, they kept a pace that the piston engines could never maintain throughout the whole race and it showed as they dropped like flies during the last few hours. Just imagine if they had tuned it for 800 (capable of 920) I do believe it would have broken some records if they did but, neither here nor there now :)
go look it up again. In the museum it sits in, the specs say that they used the 700hp set up to make sure reliability would be preserved. It was capable of 900+hp @ 10k+rpms. the kept the rpms/power lower not know for sure how much they could actually use and still be reliable for 24hours. when they tore the engine apart, it had little wear meaning it could have been driven faster. they retired the car after the race and never raced it again.
the engine is so highly strung it needs a tick over program on the ecu to keep it from stalling,,i have major respect for this car just for been different,,and winning..awesome machine
When they let the rotary race in the below races, we will see what the rotary is made of, seeing how the below institutions are not going to give it that chance and changed the rules to not allow it to race, we may never know. Racing has become stupid and over regulated to keep certain people/makers out, this is why the rotary still races and wins in 24hr races like Daytona where the rules have not changed yet.
dont think they didnt know what they were doing when they changed the engine rule. seeing how the 7 was dominating IMSA racing by winning 8 consecutive years in a row in 24hour racing, all the makers knew what was coming and hence the change. If the engine sucks as many say, why not let them race???? indy, F1, nascar. NOPE, they are not going to knowing what the rotary is capable of. You dont have to be the fastest to win.
If you think for a min that this car would lose to todays cars, think again. They drove this car conservatively and still won. they broke down the engine to find it would go another 24hours easily. Since the fuel restriction has since been lifted, if they wanted to, they could unleash the full 900+hp but, it didnt matter. how significant is this? ask any other asian maker and you will find they have still yet to win Le mans to this day.
Actually, the Japanese team manager instructed Weidler, Gachot and Herbert to drive it like they stole it. He knew that Mazda was bullet proof and didn't see any point in settling for less. Herbert was so exhausted at the end of the race - from driving flat out for so long - that he didn't attend the celebrations. That's why there are only two guys in red uniforms...
they drove it conservative for the first part of the race due to fuel restrictions. When they new they would have enough to finish the race, they stepped up the pace a little and just relied on the cars reliability to out pace the mercs. After they tore the engine down, they found it had little wear.
1) the car did not get banned, the FIA simple moved to a 3.5 liter normally aspirated engines identical to the F1 engines of the time. that left out porsche turbo, mazda rotarys and nissan turbos. 2) aparently you all have not seen this car get its ASS handed to it in Japan Group C by the above mentioned. The LeMans win was reliability. Its not a fast car. Legend my ass. . . .but i sure love the looks and sound of it !
It got banned for the above reason. Everyone knows this. they changed the rules for cost reasons as well as complaining reasons against each other. After 1991, mazda didnt put any more into its racing program for le Mans and it showed. they retired the winning car. The car is very fast but detuned 200+hp to make sure it would be reliable. this car #55 was specifically built to win the race with different gearing. Its was much better than the original 767s it replaced.
Keep in mind the others were really ticked at porsche as it hold the mileage record set back quite a few years ago. funny how they banned the rotary and now the diesel is kicking everyones butt now. they will ban it next as it doesnt go into the high revs and, just as the rotary, its not the fastest but, consistant. only one problem, its still a piston so going to do like NHRA at some point and reclassify it, or Le Mans is going to turn into a diesel race.
You should look up what happened. in going to the new 3.5L engines, it placed the rotary into the c2 class instead of the c1 class. they still had a fuel restriction as the c1 didnt. FIA made certain they could not compete by changing the rules. After the 91 season, they never raced the #55 car again. so that makes me ask, HOW COULD THIS CAR GET ITS 'ASS' HANDED TO IT WHEN IT DIDNT RACE ANYMORE AFTER IT WON LEMANS? sad thing is people actually believe what you just wrote.
When i find the videos of this car getting whopped in the Japan series. . . ill post the link. Dont be such a FANATIC. i like the car too, its awesome but its win at LeMans was because luckily all other cars broke. It only managed 362 laps when in previous years that would have gotten it only a top ten finish. And it cannot make 900 HP. its imposible without turbos
it is not impossible and was detuned. Look at the car in the museum and ask anyone that had a part in its making. All the other cars broke down cause they could not maintain the pace that the rotary could. its not how fast, its if you can keep it up just like the tortise and the hare. Why do you think diesels are winning now. same principal. most miles in the race actually was by porsche more than 20 years ago.
porsche was actually fastest in 88 but got beat by jag. being fastest doesnt mean much and since 92, in the c1 class, there are no fuel restrictions. this is after mazda got banned/reclassed, however you want to look at it. point is, they were not able to race the same people and it mean the same thing so why bother. they went 4922km in 24 hours. that is not bad, 10 years later audi won with just 4367km with an r8. that was in 2001. please do some research before you post this junk.
Unfortunatelly, cliffkemp is fanatic... Previous year winner managed 359 laps and covered 4882km whereas #55 in 1991 covered 362 laps and 4922km...
Since All motor 13Bs are attacking 370+whp,(and considering losses in high RPM all motor engine drivetrain) we can say that these 13Bs has 440+BHP, so 900HP N/A 4-rotor is not impossible...
Look at years further back ;) And please show me those 13b NA making 370 whp. id love to see that. . .sounds like fantasy. Im a racecar engineer, my father drove the first RX7 ever at lemans 24 and i have friends at Speedsource, so id really love to see what your talking about. 13b racing peripheral ports NA dont make more than 320 at the flywheel. (and mazda doesent magically make more power than other engine builders) im anxiously awaiting your finds =)
You shouldn´t be so doubtful. 320BHP was in 80s at only 8000 RPMs. You must realize that all these mazda race cars were build for reliability and broad powerband. I´m speaking about all motor drag cars. Even circuit racing rotaries (13B PP) have over 300whp. If you think that Mazda is best in extracting power of N/A rotary, you are way off. And since you are racecar engineer, you could do little math, how much power you need to propel 2050lbs car to 9.8sec 1/4mile and 138 MPH???
Rotaries are not banned from Le Mans or sports car racing, the FIA banned them in that day and age because the rules were completely gone over and the rotary did not meet the displacement rules that were coming out, they also were harder to put limits on as typical piston engine cars.
laughsatposers 2 weeks ago
gt5
gerry9169 1 month ago
Rotary all the way, RotaryPowa! Rotary4LiFe! :)
ajyabhilash 1 month ago
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Japanese Mazda cars are now tainted with high levels of nuclear radiation from Japan's recent nuclear disaster. This Plutonium-238, 239 and 240 will increase your incidence of cancer, infertility and sperm damage.
NukedJapaneseToyota 3 months ago
Watching these 787B videos makes me proud to be a Mazda fan
Kinngvon 4 months ago
I find it ridiculous that whenever a vehicle gets too good in motorsports it's banned or receives unfair limitations to give others a better chance at winning. They should just allow it, which would do nothing more than force other companies to try new things to get better, instead of sitting there crying like children because the other car is too good. boohoo! if you can't beat em, make something better!
GUTSRacing 4 months ago 6
@GUTSRacing True to that. To bad that still does not keep mazda from doing amazing stuff with engines.
theonlylolking 4 months ago
@GUTSRacing Read what I said below and then you'll find your comment ridiculous.
deggis4 3 months ago
@deggis4 hmm.. i actually didn't know some of that stuff that was posted earlier. didn't see it on the front page when i posted. was info i never actually heard. interesting stuff, and thanks for pointing me towards it.
GUTSRacing 3 months ago
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@GUTSRacing Good point about not seeing it.... looks like it has been flagged as spam. I guess some people really don't like facts.
deggis4 3 months ago
stop clapping you sound like a gay person.
arypma 5 months ago
why to the FIA or whoever is in charge ban everything thats remotely different or sounds nice?
mangaloveFTW 6 months ago
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deggis4 5 months ago
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deggis4 5 months ago
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deggis4 5 months ago
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@mangaloveFTW Not this s**t again. Rotary was not "banned". Just because it won a race during the last season of the old Group C regulations, ignorant fanboys want to believe it was banned. Rotary never was a dominating type of engine in the first place. Mazda got it's (only - and they took part several seasons in the World Sportscar Championship +Le Mans) race victory in 1991. The new engine formula was set in stone in 1989/1990 and 1991 was already a transitional year.
deggis4 5 months ago 3
Sounds like a bag of spanners......until it revs!
Sterlingjob 6 months ago
can you fit the engine in a rx7
Antonio001z 6 months ago
@Antonio001z yeah , it could be done ... but the outcome would be the equivalent to , come on guy just one more drink .... of alcohol , after you've closed the bar down after partying all day on a Sunday afternoon ...
crash & burn ... no way to harness the power or alcohol ... LOL
lolahavasuaz 6 months ago
@lolahavasuaz so this ting runs on alcahol???
Antonio001z 6 months ago
Fuck you FIA
Antonio001z 6 months ago
the reason to be banned is just ridiculous. like wtf?
it's like saying its to good to be racing! :S
billasohyeah 7 months ago
@billasohyeah There's no reason because it wasn't banned. Read wermach123's comment below.
deggis4 7 months ago
Also under later wsc rules after the demise of the short lived 3.5 liter class a man namned jim downing continued to run mazda rotary powered cars and had some success before his kudzu and later WR derived chassis proved uncompetative against the new riley and scott mkiii and ferrari 333sp cars he found himself racing against.
wermach123 7 months ago
For all you guys who mistakenly believe this car was banned after 1991 because of a unfair advantage, don't kid yourself, this car won on its reliability only, the reason it never ran at lemans again is because the fia and the aco adopted new fourmula 1 derived wsc rules for 1992, making the only legal cars to run in this catagory those based off of 3.5 liter motors. And actually mazda raced a new car using a judd motor and a jaguar xjr14 derived chassis the following year.
wermach123 7 months ago
I love the fact that this car can go from sounding like a v8 idling to an f1 car belting down a straight. Birlliant!!!!!
ironryan9999 8 months ago
I hope that was my car...
911copcar 8 months ago
that's the car i use for finishing gran turismo 4
911copcar 8 months ago
that idle...
8E6JI 9 months ago
7:04 attempting to understand dog-leg gearbox :P
FreakydeekyDutchman 9 months ago
4:49 what the heck are those pistons for?
SlicertekPictures0 10 months ago
@SlicertekPictures0 Those are variable geometry intake runners. By adjusting them at different lengths, you can change the powerband of the engine.
Longer tube = more low end torque
Shorter tube = more High end torque
7mgtesr20det 10 months ago
lól_àÑY0ñè_wÃNNÅ_chÁt_wÌth_mE_ï_fèél_s0_lÕNÉlý_tØDÃý┐
CutieoSixtaan275 10 months ago 2
"unfair weight advantages" GAY..... This is a amazing car.
RamonNFSpro 11 months ago
@RamonNFSpro 150kgs ligther? is that correct.
xb250power 9 months ago
@xb250power lol i dont know ehehhe
RamonNFSpro 9 months ago
@RamonNFSpro i read (in a respectable magizine) that this car was allowd to run 150kgs lighter than every other car. its a great car but... 150kgs is alot! thats like a passenger and a child, or one american... jokes.
xb250power 9 months ago 15
@xb250power lol cool one american lmao
RamonNFSpro 9 months ago
@xb250power That was just part of the confusing separation between "C1" and "C2" classes in 1991. C1 cars were compliant with the new 3.5 L engine rules that became mandatory in 1992. All other cars, complying with the old GrC regulations, were in the C2 class. Not sure according to what criteria FIA/ACO set the minimum weights for the C2 cars.
deggis4 8 months ago
@xb250power, haha you're so clever with your American quip. not really get some originality (and before you comment on my weight I'm 53kgs). This car is amazing though. Hell if they ran it to a higher RPM than they limited it to, it probably would have decimated the competition. Its sad really that they banned rotaries from competition. It really is a capable platform that is more efficient than piston engines. Just, maintenance and wear can be an issue with them.
mediarocker543 5 months ago
@mediarocker543 actually in racecar applications, it has proven to be a very reliable engines! The mazda team opened the engine apart after the 24 hours, and they came to the conclusion that it'd be able to run another consecutive 24 hours!
razioth 1 month ago
@razioth, I never said that they weren't reliable. They are very awesome engines indeed, however they don't really have a market except the "performance market" because most people are Morons and treat their rotaries like normal motors, then they damage them and they wear out prematurely. They are excellent motors, and I know it could have run another 24 hours, but for the general public who knows nothing about cars, they get called a nuisance unfortunately. :\ I love rotaries.
mediarocker543 1 month ago
@mediarocker543 haha indeed! Driving it like a granny kills a rotary. Driving it like you stole it makes it happy :D
however, if you do that, your mpg gets TERRIBLE and that's why most people don't :( that's the sad part
razioth 1 month ago
@mediarocker543
Yeah that 4 rotor engine is reliable because it was properly machined and rebuild by professionals. Also it NA which takes quite of bit of stress off the seals. They are excellent race motors but come with a high rebuild rate just by design.
alansupra94 1 month ago
@xb250power I am american and I find this funny,... no scratch that,... HILARIOUS!!
T3c4x3r0 2 days ago
If you dislike this your a fucking Noob!
TrollTheory 1 year ago 4
@TrollTheory Your a twit for using "noob" in a non-video game situation.
greenbastard619 11 months ago
@greenbastard619 Really? how old are you? because noob or newb can be used for alot of things not just computer games, Noob. Do you even know what noob means? fucking noob!
TrollTheory 11 months ago
@TrollTheory lol. Noob is derived from "newbie". in turn shortened to "newb" then to "noob". Ii means someone is inexperienced. It makes you sound retarded when you use it outside the gaming realm.
greenbastard619 11 months ago
@greenbastard619 Oh you silly Noob, you didn't awnser my question how old are you? lol your using google to find out what noob means how pathetic. Also your the only one who thinks it is retarded using Noob(you) outside of gaming, notice how my comment has 2 thumbs up and yours have none? It makes perfect sense that if you dislike this you would be Noob to rotarys or hate them because of your noob knowledge.
TrollTheory 11 months ago
@greenbastard619 The term noob can be used outside of gaming, its not 2003 anymore
NorbPwn 10 months ago
@NorbPwn It still make you seem illiterate.
greenbastard619 10 months ago
@greenbastard619 In what respect? You'd be hard pressed finding anyone that believe you should use proper 'wording' on the internet. Also, noob started in pc gaming, and moved onto the internet. It fits just fine.
NorbPwn 10 months ago
@NorbPwn I guess that is just my opinion. I was there in the beginning with Battle.net, I know the history first hand.
greenbastard619 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
aha he got banned
BlooDish14 1 year ago
Banned because of unfair weight advantages. Either ban the diesels in Lemans, or let Mazda enter a new rotary car in Lemans!
carmodifire 1 year ago
@carmodifire Diesels are very heavy, they are just much more efficient than a petrol.
Swansen03 1 year ago
@Swansen03 I know. I meant that they have unfair mpg advantages
carmodifire 1 year ago
@carmodifire ok. i guess that just depends on how you define unfair.
Swansen03 1 year ago
@Swansen03 This diesel vs. petrol thing is then again is a very different thing. Despite diesel's plus sides essentially the regulations have made diesel superior. Large displacement and two turbochargers are required to make up for the cons, so the rules have given them those two things. Only reason for this is that the two biggest manufacturers involved in the sport want to market diesel. Never before Le Mans has been this much about marketing instead of real innovation.
deggis4 1 year ago
its so great it got banned
gta4rulesass 1 year ago
lol it could only win once because it was banned after it won the first time .
henrii123 1 year ago
@henrii123 Interesting interpretation of history, since Mazda used rotary engines for several seasons in the World Sportscar Championship. Before Le Mans '91 it had not won a race. And it did race until the very last race of the '91 Championship but continued being an underdog. If it was "banned", how this was possible? It is possible because it was not "banned". The regulations changes for season 1992 were set in stone possibly already in 1990. It's legend now, but that doesn't erase history.
deggis4 1 year ago
@deggis4 to clarify a bit, and, lots of into out there, my understanding is, yes, rules changed, regulation was set into place and HP standards made. NIssan was making a 1200hp car. So, with the new changes, and this is where the interpretation plays, Mazda hadn't really done so well with this car, however, there was difficulties classifying the rotary engines against piston engines. oddly happened after they won. although a wankel may displace 1.5L, its said to be 3L etc, this is the issue.
Swansen03 1 year ago
@Swansen03 now, to the next point, the ban was only for a short period(a few years i believe) and has since been lifted. My understanding from this point is that Mazda switched builders for quite often and it was difficult for them or reliably work out bugs from their engines. With all that instability it led to the platforms demise from racing. It wasn't necessarily the engines downfall, just the teams constant flip-flopping.
Swansen03 1 year ago
@Swansen03 Maybe. Anyway, rotary engines have been allowed at least since the LMP regulations were formed around 1999/2000. The "ban" - and I refrain to use that word without quotation marks - basically only lasted one year. The new engine rules came for 1992 season, but that was also when the Championship was cancelled at the end of the year. Same cars were still used for the 1993 Le Mans race, but from onwards 1994 there was no Group C and any continuation of the rules ends there.
deggis4 1 year ago
@Swansen03 More correct way would be to say "Mazda oddly won after the new regulations were decided".
deggis4 1 year ago
I will donate my left ball to experience this awesome car in person.
Just imagine where rotary development would have been if some idiot in the FIA didn't decide to bann rotaries from Le Mans.
adinlouw 1 year ago
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deggis4 1 year ago
@adinlouw you don't have to donate your family jewels to see it. You just have to get a plane ticket to the Mazda factory Museum in Hiroshima where they have the Lemans winning car on display.
obts10 1 year ago
thats one off the best sound in the world!!!!
v0fkas310 1 year ago
the best part = number 3 in the description. How badass is an engine that is so good it's banned because nothing can match it?!
bmx4637 1 year ago
power to weight ratio: japans replacement for displacement...
xExRxIxCxKx 1 year ago 28
@xExRxIxCxKx Displacement is USA's response to inefficiency and obsolete design...
diegomayan 6 months ago 2
@diegomayan haha so true. lets build a car with rocker arm cams and 5 carburetors but make up for it by having it be 7 liter v8 haha
xExRxIxCxKx 6 months ago
I luv that sound.......... that cars siiick
robsnizzle7 1 year ago 4
Definitely idles like a proper racecar
spiritcrusher923 1 year ago
mazda was banned because of the weight requirement but then again it was the first japanese to beat the amls so i appreciate mazda and its rotary advancements mazdaspeed baby
TheRevolutionaryvoic 1 year ago
Fast forward to 6:00 if you want to give your ears an eargasmmmmmm!!!!
D3RTY3RD 1 year ago
quisiera ver el bugatti vs este ejemplar de 4 rotores y 900 hp !!!
gueloification 1 year ago
Keep in mind that the rotary has the best record of endurance racing than anything else made. it has the fewest breakdowns per entry for the engine that any other car. It has won more endurance races that it is participated in per entry than any one. In Le Mans alone, it is tied for most finishes/ entry with honda that only raced 7 cars total. Honda never won a race though. Easy to put it down when racing bodies wont let it race to prove otherwise.
cliffkemp 1 year ago
pretty fucking lame that they banned the car from racing :(
alexoprel 1 year ago
@alexoprel yeah...i gues that anything with an internal combustion engine should be alowed to participate...but in diferent categories. This decision by the staff of Le mans was stupid... "it's very reliable so you r in advantage so u'r banned"....c'mon how is the tecnology supposed to evolve with that kind of decisions? If wenkel was to good than the "normal" ones should do something to keep up.
DerbutcherACDC 1 year ago
that sounds scary..
now i know why the mazda guys say ROTARY ROCKET :)
o0oMusTaNgLoVero0o 1 year ago
to me the car isnt legendary. its a very nice car, but it won le mans only one time... but not even a single other victory... its nice because it has proven that the wankel works... but still not legendary. and by the way... the FIA did not change the rules because of this car. the rules have been changed before 91. and not because the wankel dominated, which they didnt. i like the car but its not legendary. for me the porsche 917 or 962 are legends of le mans. because the won it several times
bavarianbass 1 year ago
@bavarianbass The R26B in this car was only used in 1991. The previous Wankels were inferior engines with higher fuel consumption.
rjherche 1 year ago
@rjherche wrong, only smaller engines.
FunteX 1 year ago
@bavarianbass Ive heard different things about the rule changes despite what wiki says..but not shure..still it didnt get the chance to be legendary wich I personally feel even as a porsche fan it could have been. It made 700hp for a 2.6 NA engine. but revs were kept low for endurance, it actually made 930hp on 10,500 rpm..That is impressive..so I'd say its legendary in the fact it was the only japanese non piston engine to win the race..and1st, 6th n 8th kinda a domination.
chandni89xOx 1 year ago
@bavarianbass That being said Id like to see the new porsche hybrid win next!
chandni89xOx 1 year ago
@chandni89xOx you meen the gt3 r hybrid? it did almost win at the 24h of nurbürgring-nordschleife... only 1 and a half hours before the end the engine blowed up... they were superior and first that point of the race
bavarianbass 1 year ago
@bavarianbass true the rules were changed before but, keep in mind that the rotary has the best finish per entry of any maker. the changed the rules partly due to this car though. If other companies were not scared of this car, why not let it keep racing. The rules are biased towards piston engine anyway. It is legendary cause no other asian car maker has ever won lemans even to this day.
cliffkemp 1 year ago
The only Japanese car I have ever owned and likely will ever own, is a Mazda. Mine was a U.S. spec Turbo II but they are all good, the RX7, any RX7 I love them, especially the older ones. I remember in '85-86 some rich kid at school (undergrad) had a brand new GSL SE, silver.
KingCast65 1 year ago
@mchlor Im 6'4" and I fit into to my JDM 1992 Rx7 just fine but my brother @ 6'10" doesnt fit, well he can get into it.but cant turn...LOL knees get in the way, so u gotta huge like him is my guess.
KirbSleep 1 year ago
@james6speed, "rotaries are outlawed", I can't defend myself against a comment I didn't make and as such cannot, "tell you more".
My apologies on that one.
I talked about blocking the car from competing and how this will always be talked about. They created the monster themselves.
Rotaries are still eligible to race in some series today, but sadly they haven't been embraced by the general circuit racing community because they are bad for business. Ditto, on the awesome.
skp1970 1 year ago
simply awesome!
james6speed 1 year ago
Anyone who bags this car is delusional and there IS NOW and NEVER WILL BE any hope for an improvement in the condition of your head in the foreseeable future!
Rotarys rule and few will admit it because it hurts to get your guts ripped out.The Le Mans officials have damaged themselves by changing the rules and the stigma of blocking this car will remain a legacy for a damn long time to come. It doesn't matter why the 787B was not eligible to to compete,just the fact that it was not.
skp1970 1 year ago
@skp1970 rotaries are outlawed???? tell me more
james6speed 1 year ago
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skp1970 1 year ago
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skp1970 1 year ago
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skp1970 1 year ago
was the 4 rotor setup banned? If not I don't understand why mazda doesn't campaign the 4 rotor in LM prototype. is it not economical enough to compete? it certainly makes the power, i see the 4 rotor in drag racing all the time sending the competition home crying.
prodriver1 1 year ago
At 6:20 the guy laughs as the guy driving says "So sorry...I left poo on your seat" Then he laughs again when he says "Don`t tell my wife.....but I want to fuck your car!!!"
78Sabre 1 year ago
Haha fucking car is the best thing to touch lemans fuck ferrari! And sadly sorry ford your washed up... 787 all the way!!!
305BoondockSaint 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I love the sound of this but it can not I repeat Can not beat the Sound of a Zonda R @ WOT.
1Nasty240 1 year ago
that sound in low it's beatifull
camilo161616 1 year ago
this was not meant to idle!!! I t needs to run!!!
thekoepkes 1 year ago
sounds like a two stroke with a missfire
xb250power 1 year ago
@xb250power Its called a ported rotary thats how they all sound because they idle rough and this car isnt really meant to be kept at idle....
305BoondockSaint 1 year ago
9:45 MAZDA 787B VS. F1?
6277302 1 year ago 32
@6277302 i think its a formula nippon car, the track is fuji speedway
theundeadx 1 year ago
9:45 F1 vs. Mazda 787B??????
RARE
6277302 1 year ago
I used to be a Mazda dealership mechanic.... the rotary rules!
toyota4x4canadaguy 1 year ago 4
@toyota4x4canadaguy , well u wouldnt hav bn outta work, thats for sure.
xb250power 1 year ago
the run at 8.35-40 was EXCELLENT. like a muffled F1! :D
Namord 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
uuhany guys want to chat i feel sooo lonely
FanneeGremelleon5 1 year ago
thats one of the best engines ive heard
thyrn 1 year ago 58
@thyrn and one of the best ever built !!!!!
DriftkingS2K 1 year ago
ahhhh.....i could fall asleep to that bbrap!......nice :) love it!
RotarFlow 1 year ago 3
sleeping with that noise? naaah... but a really nice sound, indeed.
Gyarados94 1 year ago
oh, my baby's burping at speeds over nine thousand. I'm going to get my NOS bottle and a Tire blanket :D
Namord 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@999miki
shut the fuck up
fanofdiesel 1 year ago
Cool!
mazdausa 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This thread has just become the intellectual equivalent of the Donner Party...
Camerameister 2 years ago
Comment removed
Camerameister 2 years ago
Lastly, acting like you know something when you dont and having it pointed out to you as BS is sad. Care to have me point it out again, I will if I have to or you can quit digging that hole behind you before you fall in it.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
I can arque with you all day long because I learned many things of people who have REAL rotary engine experience and knowledge, and because SAE papers of real RE development are sitting in front of me. ALL the info is on the internet, search... (maybe it wil be just to much for your stomach to take it when you acting like idiot and caling BS on me) have fun, I´m done with you.
Once again, *Ignorance is bliss*
999miki 2 years ago
You could not argue breathing to someone effectively. If you had any clue to what you were talking about, you would not be making junk up based off of something that is not apples to apples as you just did several times. You rank up there with aji8 now, might be related, i dont know but neither of you have any basis of proof of what you are trying to argue so it is pointless. when you have a basis and can actually put related facts together, let me know. bye
cliffkemp 2 years ago
I am not a mazda cheerleader but, I am correcting the BS that people say about the rotary engine. I will do this to you as well. I have my facts in order but, you sure dont. First you use the 700hp tune to try to make a point that is based off of a tune that you know nothing about. Mazda detuned the engine and until you have the details, you can speculate all you want. Mazda says it did what it did for a reason. the whole junk about the 60s and 70s is BS.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
I humbly recommend you to do research. I used torque value of 700HP tune for several reasons: Engine is not going to produce more torque in higher RPMs because Indicated mean friction pressure will be higher and VE% is also not going to increase to overcome this so your argument falls...
No you are not correcting BS, you are only spreading what you heard/read.
999miki 2 years ago
I recommend you stop pretending to be an engineer/rotary specialist and learn to look up things and use some thing that many in the rotary community do.....COMMON SENSE you have none. Your assumption that the engine will not make more hp at higher rpms is bogus. It as been proven to in every rotary built and the 787b had 3 plugs per rotor. they have not built a production car like that so you have NO comparison. Again you are throwing up BS with no basis.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
my point about the rotary in general is that so much has yet to be tried due to not having much R&D. Even today you can take an old 13b and use renesis rotors that are lighter. One day they may be able to use aluminum alloy rotors. they already are going to try to use an all al block and not just the rotor housings. So much technology that has yet to be tried. rotors themselves have only changed size 3 times in production cars. tons to be tried.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Again, you are just showing your closed mind. Everything has been already tried, again, you didn´t do your research. Al rotors were back in the 60s, titanium and such also... Direct injection(real high pressure, no BS like 16x) has been fully developed and it worked flawlessly. All this stuff was done by NASA, Curtis Wright, John Deere... This was pinnacle of wankel engine development.
999miki 2 years ago
Almost nothing has been tried. I looked it up. You dont see titanium rotors or sides. They have not tried it due to costs and the technology in the 60 was nothing like it is now. mazda is already trying an all al motor now. They have not done direct injection either. NASA doesnt use rotaries and never has. CW dropped the engine in the 70s. John deere ditto 70s. It was not the pinnacle as the 13b wasnt developed and put in production til the early 80s. You are making yourself look bad on this.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
FAIL FAIL FAIL, Titanium rotors has been tried, Direct injection-not only John Deere and NASA, but also NSU, MAZDA... Again you didn´t do your homework... I could direct you to right sources(not mazda commercial shit) and prove again how you know nothing about rotary engines and history of development.
You call 13B pinnacle? 13B geometry is biggest fail of mazda rotary family...
999miki 2 years ago
You dont know what you are talking about and you missed the point cause you dont understand what i was saying. NO WHERE DID I SAY THE 13B WAS THE 'PINNACLE' OF ANYTHING. STUPID!!!
YOU DONT GET IT AT ALL
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Why you deleting your comments?You realized that you failing so hard?
You are such Mazda cheerleader,you stubbornly claiming mazda this,mazda that,but you can´t accept the fact,that many people without mazda sponsorship did better,much better.And if you didn´t seen it or heard it,your problem.Ignorance is bliss...
999miki 2 years ago
I deleted my comments cause I misread one of yours and deleted it cause I was wrong as you confirmed the possibility of the 900+ hp and i missread that you said it was not possible. I deleted those comments based on that. the comment about 370hp 13b is wrong to my knowledge but, if I see a dyno showing otherwise, I will concede on it as well.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
You are not going to see a dyno, do you thing that all people who had done hard work developing these high HP combinations will let cat out of the bag?? And again dynos can be influented but not numbers at drag strip.
13B PP N/A, 2050 lbs. 9.8 sec. 138+ MPH 1/4 mile, do the math
999miki 2 years ago
the figures above mean NOTHING. do you not understand that.... I know you dont cause you make the same aimless statements that mean nothing. not a thing. you assume and it shows just what you know, nothing.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Fact is, the 12a and 13b can make 300+fly hp. Fact is, 900+has been done by mazda with a 4 rotor that was in the 787b and was detuned to keep up reliability. Another fact is that Le Mans is an fast and reliability race. Lastly, fact is, the rotary has the highest percentage of finishes (tied with honda but honda only entered 3) than any other maker. One last fact, rotary won 100 IMSA races faster than any other maker including the great porsche. Its all FACTS. disappointed in you seven.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Comment removed
cliffkemp 2 years ago
they will be banned in gocart racing and snowmobile racing and everything else before you know it. So little R&D and still it runs like the wind. Look up wiki and scroll down to specs to see the 900+ hp at 10,500 rpms. It was taken from the museum itself.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
another fact for you. its funny how the 3.5L rule only lasted 2 seasons. porsche won with a 3L in 1994. as I said before, they banned the rotary with bs rules and mazda just lost interest. No point in putting money into a car for a race that changes rules just cause they complain about something better. Mazda proved it was more reliable and won. After that, they concentrated on other racing. funny how they are not allowed in f1, indy, nascar and reclassed in most every other kind of racing.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
it had nothing to do with luck. majority of the cars breakdown in the race and is why it is so important. look it up as I did at Le Man's archives page. Mazda has the most start/finish percentage of any maker and tied with honda as they only entered 3 cars. it was a matter of time before the rotary would have dominated the race. the engine had very little wear after the race. Everyone else was breaking down and everyone knows this, hence why diesel is doing well.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
the ruder comments were for supersevenn as he made bogus comments about the car and rules govning FIA. The car was banned in that it was regrouped into c2 with fuel restrictions and not in the old group it won in c1 and fuel restrictions were lifted in 92 with the new 3.5L rules. He also said that the #55 was not good in the japan series. It wasnt built for the japan series, it was for Le mans. Lastly it didnt race after the win ever again. the rudeness was not aimed at you. my apologies.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
I have no beef with you on the comment you made. I have read in a few places that the car was able to be tuned to 900+ hp and they used 700 for reliability reason as this car was just about brand new when it debuted.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
The best looking racing car I've ever seen, bar none. Some said the paint job was naff. I love it.
Not the fastest car in a straight line but the low C of G and short wheelbase meant it handled like a go kart and had excellent brakes. Steering was apparently very heavy though.
Camerameister 2 years ago 2
Herbert didnt drink enough and collapsed when he got out of the car. there is a vid on here of him being interviewed. If you have not seen it, check it out.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Thanks, I've seen it (more to the point, I've read the transcript). From the Wiki article:
"On the day before the race, team manager Ohashi decided to drop his usual conservative strategy and instructed the drivers of the #55 car to drive as if it were a short sprint race."
Yeah, I know: Wiki isn't always the most reliable reference. Mazda had sorted their fuel economy problems before the race so the only real question was reliability, which they were rightly confident about.
Camerameister 2 years ago
yes they did drive it much faster than before knowing reliability was on their side. :) they didnt post the fastest mph or lap time but, they kept a pace that the piston engines could never maintain throughout the whole race and it showed as they dropped like flies during the last few hours. Just imagine if they had tuned it for 800 (capable of 920) I do believe it would have broken some records if they did but, neither here nor there now :)
cliffkemp 2 years ago
I have never seen any reference to the Mazda being capable of that sort of power output. 700hp is the highest I have heard for it anywhere.
Camerameister 2 years ago
go look it up again. In the museum it sits in, the specs say that they used the 700hp set up to make sure reliability would be preserved. It was capable of 900+hp @ 10k+rpms. the kept the rpms/power lower not know for sure how much they could actually use and still be reliable for 24hours. when they tore the engine apart, it had little wear meaning it could have been driven faster. they retired the car after the race and never raced it again.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
the engine is so highly strung it needs a tick over program on the ecu to keep it from stalling,,i have major respect for this car just for been different,,and winning..awesome machine
megabowzer 2 years ago
When they let the rotary race in the below races, we will see what the rotary is made of, seeing how the below institutions are not going to give it that chance and changed the rules to not allow it to race, we may never know. Racing has become stupid and over regulated to keep certain people/makers out, this is why the rotary still races and wins in 24hr races like Daytona where the rules have not changed yet.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
dont think they didnt know what they were doing when they changed the engine rule. seeing how the 7 was dominating IMSA racing by winning 8 consecutive years in a row in 24hour racing, all the makers knew what was coming and hence the change. If the engine sucks as many say, why not let them race???? indy, F1, nascar. NOPE, they are not going to knowing what the rotary is capable of. You dont have to be the fastest to win.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
If you think for a min that this car would lose to todays cars, think again. They drove this car conservatively and still won. they broke down the engine to find it would go another 24hours easily. Since the fuel restriction has since been lifted, if they wanted to, they could unleash the full 900+hp but, it didnt matter. how significant is this? ask any other asian maker and you will find they have still yet to win Le mans to this day.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Actually, the Japanese team manager instructed Weidler, Gachot and Herbert to drive it like they stole it. He knew that Mazda was bullet proof and didn't see any point in settling for less. Herbert was so exhausted at the end of the race - from driving flat out for so long - that he didn't attend the celebrations. That's why there are only two guys in red uniforms...
Camerameister 2 years ago
they drove it conservative for the first part of the race due to fuel restrictions. When they new they would have enough to finish the race, they stepped up the pace a little and just relied on the cars reliability to out pace the mercs. After they tore the engine down, they found it had little wear.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
1) the car did not get banned, the FIA simple moved to a 3.5 liter normally aspirated engines identical to the F1 engines of the time. that left out porsche turbo, mazda rotarys and nissan turbos. 2) aparently you all have not seen this car get its ASS handed to it in Japan Group C by the above mentioned. The LeMans win was reliability. Its not a fast car. Legend my ass. . . .but i sure love the looks and sound of it !
supersevenn 2 years ago
It got banned for the above reason. Everyone knows this. they changed the rules for cost reasons as well as complaining reasons against each other. After 1991, mazda didnt put any more into its racing program for le Mans and it showed. they retired the winning car. The car is very fast but detuned 200+hp to make sure it would be reliable. this car #55 was specifically built to win the race with different gearing. Its was much better than the original 767s it replaced.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Keep in mind the others were really ticked at porsche as it hold the mileage record set back quite a few years ago. funny how they banned the rotary and now the diesel is kicking everyones butt now. they will ban it next as it doesnt go into the high revs and, just as the rotary, its not the fastest but, consistant. only one problem, its still a piston so going to do like NHRA at some point and reclassify it, or Le Mans is going to turn into a diesel race.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
You should look up what happened. in going to the new 3.5L engines, it placed the rotary into the c2 class instead of the c1 class. they still had a fuel restriction as the c1 didnt. FIA made certain they could not compete by changing the rules. After the 91 season, they never raced the #55 car again. so that makes me ask, HOW COULD THIS CAR GET ITS 'ASS' HANDED TO IT WHEN IT DIDNT RACE ANYMORE AFTER IT WON LEMANS? sad thing is people actually believe what you just wrote.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
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Camerameister 2 years ago
When i find the videos of this car getting whopped in the Japan series. . . ill post the link. Dont be such a FANATIC. i like the car too, its awesome but its win at LeMans was because luckily all other cars broke. It only managed 362 laps when in previous years that would have gotten it only a top ten finish. And it cannot make 900 HP. its imposible without turbos
supersevenn 2 years ago
it is not impossible and was detuned. Look at the car in the museum and ask anyone that had a part in its making. All the other cars broke down cause they could not maintain the pace that the rotary could. its not how fast, its if you can keep it up just like the tortise and the hare. Why do you think diesels are winning now. same principal. most miles in the race actually was by porsche more than 20 years ago.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
porsche was actually fastest in 88 but got beat by jag. being fastest doesnt mean much and since 92, in the c1 class, there are no fuel restrictions. this is after mazda got banned/reclassed, however you want to look at it. point is, they were not able to race the same people and it mean the same thing so why bother. they went 4922km in 24 hours. that is not bad, 10 years later audi won with just 4367km with an r8. that was in 2001. please do some research before you post this junk.
cliffkemp 2 years ago
Unfortunatelly, cliffkemp is fanatic... Previous year winner managed 359 laps and covered 4882km whereas #55 in 1991 covered 362 laps and 4922km...
Since All motor 13Bs are attacking 370+whp,(and considering losses in high RPM all motor engine drivetrain) we can say that these 13Bs has 440+BHP, so 900HP N/A 4-rotor is not impossible...
999miki 2 years ago
Look at years further back ;) And please show me those 13b NA making 370 whp. id love to see that. . .sounds like fantasy. Im a racecar engineer, my father drove the first RX7 ever at lemans 24 and i have friends at Speedsource, so id really love to see what your talking about. 13b racing peripheral ports NA dont make more than 320 at the flywheel. (and mazda doesent magically make more power than other engine builders) im anxiously awaiting your finds =)
supersevenn 2 years ago
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cliffkemp 2 years ago
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cliffkemp 2 years ago
You shouldn´t be so doubtful. 320BHP was in 80s at only 8000 RPMs. You must realize that all these mazda race cars were build for reliability and broad powerband. I´m speaking about all motor drag cars. Even circuit racing rotaries (13B PP) have over 300whp. If you think that Mazda is best in extracting power of N/A rotary, you are way off. And since you are racecar engineer, you could do little math, how much power you need to propel 2050lbs car to 9.8sec 1/4mile and 138 MPH???
999miki 2 years ago