The Truth About the Spanish Inquisition a

[TheLonewolf313]

from my readings from 711 ad to 1492 ad, the moors conquered Spain, but they also brought science, culture, humanity to Europe during the middle ages, which seems from several authors that it was indeed needed during this dark period of time in Europe and of course eventually Spaniards wanted their country back, even though the knowledge the moors brought with them help develope Spain and neighboring countries

[MontChevalier]

@TheLonewolf313 Well you need to re-read your readings. The true humanity wasn't found in the Moors, it was found in their faith, Christianity. The Moors, from the Almoravids to the Almohads, were harsh and evil Kingdoms to Christians in Spain. Science was brought in from France, Scholasticism from Rome, Spices from Byzantium, banks from Genoa and Venice, and order from Germany. The so-called, "Islamic contributions" to Europe is a lie. Always has been.

[tarot4games]

Spanish Inquisition? I wasn't expecting this!

[spam1138]

@tarot4games Nobody ecpects the spanish inquisition!!!

[Gowalum]

Which war is he referring to as the longest war in history? I thought the 100 Years War was the longest war ever and that was between England and France.

[AWH1AC]

Really bad propaganda - stupidly done lies. Read "The Ornament of the World" for a look at the history of a relatively tolerant civilization where Moslems, Jews and Christians lived and learned side by side, and science flourished. Even after a later invasion by Moslem fundamentalist f--kheads from North Africa, Andalucia was still a freer place than "Christian" Spain. And people bathed there, unlike in the north.

He looks like he still remembers being buggered by a priest or a Moonie.

[ssszar]

@AWH1AC except that did not happen, The spanish were reduced to being second class citizens, forced to pay special taxes and not allowed to build or restore any churches. Your precious book, which was written by a communist in collaboration with a jew, cannot explain the paradox of the muslims bringing tolerance through conquest. There were already schools in spain and the rest of europe before the muslims brought their muslims only school.

[ssszar]

@AWH1AC your comment if full of anti european nonsense. commenting on the bathing practices, of course they bathed in christian europe just not everyday, no one anywhere had the chance to bath everyday . take your jewish created anti european nonsense elsewhere.

[AWH1AC]

@ssszar You're nuts. I like Europe. Especially Catalunya, now that murdering bastard Franco is dead and they've kicked out those Guardia Civil thugs. I'm not Jewish, and in fact I despise the "settlement" policies of Israel and the American politicians who cater to it. I also have no use for Muslim fundamentalists. In fact it is fundamentalists of ANY stripe - like yourself - that I despise. Christian, Jewish, Moslem, Hindu, Mormon, Sc[am]ientologist, what have you. Remember Beziers!!

[ssszar]

@AWH1AC and yet the anti european attitude of yours continues to show itself by your open support of the jewish led spanish republic.

[AWH1AC]

@ssszar Wouldn't you be much happier at FurhrerFollies.nut, along with the other fundamentalist fascist f--kheads? Stick your racist crap up your opus dei orifice.

[ssszar]

@AWH1AC No doubt a foreigner like you, who knows very little of spanish history,especially the history of the civil war supports catalunya,If you really like europe,which we all know you dont,you would support those who fought to defend it. Instead you spill this "tolerant muslim" society myth.A myth that has no basis in history and at its core is completely self  contradicting. and why is that?the jews hate spain for throwing them out,they have made up myths and fought against spain ever since.

[AWH1AC]

Really bad propaganda - stupidly done lies. Read "The Ornament of the World" for a look at the history of a relatively tolerant civilization where Moslems, Jews and Christians lived and learned side by side, and science flourished. Even after a later invasion by Moslem fundamentalist f--kheads from North Africa, Andalucia was still a freer place than "Christian" Spain. And people bathed there, unlike in the north.

PS - He looks like he still remembers being buggered by a priest.

[rlibos]

What in the Hell is Christendon College ???????

[NuMoonSoon]

That's it? The christians lived as citizens under muslim rule but when the Xians took Spain, no good job, no business allowed for muslims.  Xians only. Some muslims pretended to be xian so they could put food on the table and so the xians ended up with too many converts who were suspected of not being sincere in accepting Jesus as God - so that justfies the spanish Inquisition?

[ssszar]

@NuMoonSoon thats not true, christians under moorish rule were not allowed the same rights. after the moorish rule ended, spain was a christian nation, anyone not catholic was guilty of treason. it was not about putting food on the table, it was undermining the authority of the spanish government.

[NuMoonSoon]

@ssszar - So xians & jews lived in peace under Islamic rule but jews & muslims were tortured & killed under xian rule even if they converted because they didn't do it for Jesus but to save themselves from the inquisition. nice religion - NOT.

[ssszar]

@NuMoonSoon your first mistake is assuming there was peace when the moors ruled spain, there was not, secondly an genuine conversion was fine, it was a false conversion, and act of treason, that was punished by a trial not by a torture chamber, keep believing yoru protestant propaganda

[NuMoonSoon]

@ssszar The point is under Islamic Law other religions are tolerated. They are not forced to convert or else executed. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Even during wartime xians & jews in Moorish Spain were NOT executed for being xian. Whereas muslims and jews were killed by xians for not converting. False conversion =treason? Why did they have to convert? Can you not see how evil you are?

[ssszar]

@NuMoonSoon Thats still in error, no jew or moor was executed because they were a jew or a muslim false convert were excecuted because they broke spanish law, the jews and the muslims were allowed to leave spain, if the chose to stay then they had to become christian, if they did not want to they were welcome to leave and most did.

[NuMoonSoon]

@ssszar O.K. That's clear. The muslims have a Law called Thimmis. Xians pay 20% tax and can remain in the muslim lands as xians. Otherwise you must leave or convert. Where as the option to remain muslim in xian lands is not there. But a xian can convert to Islam & its between him & Allah re his intention. The muslim cannot be killed because his goal is a 'profitable life'. Where as xians can kill a xian they believe is only interested in aquiring material wealth.

[ssszar]

@NuMoonSoon That is what is wrong, the moors were making christians pay taxes in their own lands. We can make a comparison to israel today. the state of israel has already taken almost everything the palestinians have, what would we think if the israeli state starting making palestine pay tribute. No one in spain was forced to convert. any jew or muslim was allowed to stay so long they adopted the catholic religion.

[NuMoonSoon]

@ssszar I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think 20% is worth it to keep your religion, house and possessions & remain your country. Where as you think the kinder thing is to banished from your country, lose your home & leave with only the clothes on your back.

[ssszar]

@NuMoonSoon the jews and moors hardley left with just clothes and their backs, the mistake is thnking spain belonged to the jews and moors simply because they were there

[OrlandoCG954]

@ssszar but they also persecuted & executed them Spain is mainly originated as Iberian, Celt, & Latin & mostly European.

[tompointzero]

DIDNT JULIAN ASK THE MUSLIMS TO HELP HIM CONQUER A CURRUPT CHRISTIAN RULER WHO RAPED HIS DAUGHTER? ONLY 7000 MUSLIMS TOOK ALL OF SPAIN, ALLAHU AKBAR

[ssszar]

@tompointzero thats all very nice except the musilms never did take all of spain

[tompointzero]

lol 800 years of fabolous rule, reached all the way to tours near paris this is where europe got its culture from minus the islam. Muslims even saved europe from mongol invasion. @ssszar

[ssszar]

@tompointzero they didint reach tours, they went to tours and had their asses kicked by martel, then got theri asses kicked by the spanish in northern spain

[tompointzero]

yeah right, its funny how copernicus copied ibn shatir how averroes has influenced western philosophy and how islamic sciences changed the europe from the dark ages into what it is now. Islam is the best and greatest religion, its not some lies like christianity and judaism, and on top of this we are fearless.@ssszar

[ssszar]

@tompointzero please do not change the subject, copernicus has nothing to do with this video, and would could say that your guy, who no in europe had heard of, was just copying the earlier greeks.,

[tompointzero]

Muslims copied greeks? If muslims did not seek this knowledge it would have been lost forever, we gave the europeans their own knowledge back and much much more, greeks and romans are known for their sexual debauchery (pan and and goat statue) @ssszar

[ssszar]

@tompointzero and when did this exchange happen?

[dimalex8]

@Alanant78 what the f has the orthodox christianity to do with the crusades and the spanish Inquisition?

[MrSteelhelmet]

SHAME !

[Stgfre]

Viva la reconquista! White power!

[mtime6]

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!

[wyss20]

If you are confused about the Myth of the Spanish Inquisition got to this video 49tcQEPxYqA produced by the Franciscan Friars. It gives a very good expl. about how the myth came to be at the end.

[xtiml]

the Berbers of north Africa were invited by the Spanish Jews to cross the nine‑mile strip of water at Gibraltar and possess themselves of the Christian kingdom. The plot was discovered, and the Jews sternly punished. A second attempt, was successful . "It remains a fact," says the Jewish Encyclopedia, "that the Jews, either directly or through their co‑religionists in Africa, encouraged the Mohammedans to conquer Spain."2

[bluethunder25]

Oh, I see. So?

[bluethunder25]

Tell me, what exactly was the Spanish Inquisition?

[manq211]

@bluethunder25 the spanish gov. forcefully converted Muslims to Christianity, or expelled them

[SuperDeut4]

Shut up, Mister! You talk alot and say nothing............other than exalt your religion. You also hate jews. It's obvious. What a disgrace to the catholic church you are!

[carpnter2000]

This guy and this vid seem to be full of crappppollla

[hcorebabysean]

@carpnter2000 your a retard, study history before you talk

[carpnter2000]

@corebaby,

Actually I am not but I am guilty of not watching this entire video the first time. I watched maybe 5 minutes and thought he was ommiting the parts about the protestants,jews,etc.etc...Aft­er your comment I watched it again, all the way this time and I do stand corrected. He did include it all.........I will say however, Fuck you very much for your skill and tact with which you informed me of my error.

[hcorebabysean]

i know you are not a retard, but perhaps you should finish a video before you talk about it haha, it was a prequel to the inquistion. haha sorry (:

[zavi13]

These guys (knights of columbus) are the supporters of genocide of native americans, brutal persecution of Jews and covering-up for the thousands of paedophile priests throughout the world. The catholic church is backward, ignorant and the enemy of human progress throughout the ages.

[ssszar]

of course zavi cannot document this.

[DANIEL108]

lol a mosslum

[granskare]

as the Republican said during the Obama speech,

"you lie"

[Gneisenau]

Christians? Original settlers of Spain? I lol'd

[deltapunk21]

The inquisition was a setup to ferret out Muslim spies and crooks who were cells of sabotage and the enemy who seriosuly attacked tried to re-invade the Spanish state, it had nothing to do with Jews or the like, the mythology of torture and all this other crap has bene refuted. There were few execution, mostly for high crimes like treason in war against the Turks and Muslims.

[Serkelet1]

Sooo... Are you saying this guy in the video is going all serious? Because he seems to be pulling his History speech from a basic school book. He's just saying bullshit. He's just ignoring a lot of Historical facts and details. For example, the place he shows as the only Christian stronghold in Spain was NOT the only one, there was also de zone at the south of the Pyrenees that originated the Kingdom of Aragon. And that's just an example. This is just cheap hatred building propaganda.

[deltapunk21]

I fins it amazing some imbecile who did not live at the time, ignores the scholarship and provides no counter arguement, did not even listen to the arguements, is completely ignorant of empirical research and trutht and uses his bs so called nationality to justify a lie.

Its like holocaust denial and saying I'm a German. Or claiming the Union "tortued" southerns and burned Atlanta and all these other lies and saying "i'm a southerner" that means nothing. You weren't there, and you are lying.

[Serkelet1]

I'm Spaniard... This is a joke, right? Because I laughed pretty hard.

[deltapunk21]

Your a spainard non-seqitour....not a legitmate arguement that supports your silly "position" you laughed at truth. Pretending the smear of Catholicism by protestant and anti-Christian fools pasisng through the ages is something you can continue to defend is what is laughable. You are a typical spanish fascist and communist smearing the truth tellers all the while murdering and raping nuns you freak. Typical 1930's lying. The myth of the inquisition has been refuted, stop being stupid leftist.

[y100269]

an intelligent person can give a speech fluently, it comes natural, no ums or euhs.

[ssszar]

y100269, heard an obama speech lately where every other word is uhh?firstly you cannot find a point in time when islam did not conquer through the sword, how did persia become muslim? wicca is a modern day made up religion based on acient european paganism, paganism that would burn people in wickermen and bury them alive in bogs, your other statement about south america is more than likely made up keep in mind i live in latin america i havent heard any of what you claim

[Scardy]

Yeah, you gotta love it when they claim that their religion was a perfectly peaceful one. Of course, there are plenty who admit that their version is a new one that simply borrows from the old pagan religions and they condemn human and animal sacrifices. Wicca is a very watered down rewrite of the old pagan religions. Those who claim otherwise are either deluded or misinformed.

[Scardy]

Actually, it's a very common way to pause and let your thoughts catch up. Some use more, some use less, but he's not using that many.

[DaytonaRoadster]

well, i didnt expect this

[darkreptilius]

The English church klled and tortured more people than Spanish Inquisition.

Also, the English Church. The church burned more than 10,000 English witchs, the Spanish Inquisition to burn only 30.

Also blasphemed offenders to be sentenced by the Spanish Inquisition, because was more lenient than the civil tibunales.

[mmmbeachlover]

hahaha

this is on a par with the drivel spouted by the extreme Islamasists in defence of their religion/acts in its name.

[princefy]

well guess what---80% of spanish and portuguese native peoples studied islam and changed to the muslim religioun-and then the christians took over spain-and forced the spanish people who were mainly muslims to change to christian-why dont they ever tell you that most spanish changed to islam? why they avoid that in most documentaries?

[Mystwicca]

If yu think for a heartbeat that RC teach truth......think again

[JakimBoor91]

Heretics will perspire in hell

[evaperonfan]

Protestants are Christian too...

[HeartofTopaz]

Obviously Mystwicca, for you to make that claim, reveals that you have not studied the doctrine of Catholicism. If you did, you would SEE AND UNDERSTAND ITS TRUTH! But your name depicts Wicca...I rest my case. You are the one following a lie!

[princefy]

well guess what---80% of spanish and portuguese native peoples studied islam and changed to the muslim religioun-and then the christians took over spain-and forced the spanish people who were mainly muslims to change to christian-why dont they ever tell you that most spanish changed to islam? why they avoid that in most documentaries?

[mmmbeachlover]

Shuuuush, don't mention that.

[y100269]

heartoftopaz,

seems like Wiccans are less violent then the Spanish catholic inquisitors in the 16th century. dutch protestants were tortured, killed and forced to convert to Catholicism.

[Mystwicca]

masons........there are two seperate divisions....all of the men Ive known to BE masons are GODLOVING and GODTEACHING men.......in other words GOD is Most important in thier lives and in what they teach thier family.....that sound satanic to yu? NO.......there are imposters

[JakimBoor91]

"Freemasonry, one of the most repugnant mysteries of the twentieth century" - Francisco Franco

[evaperonfan]

you are quoting a misogynist

[Mystwicca]

when good is called evil, darkness is called light, all is reversed for the sake of non-accountability/responsibil­ity........truth is still in the heart

[JakimBoor91]

Ah but you can't compare me to Bush since I am a devout and pious Catholic while Bush is a Masonic heretic

[JakimBoor91]

The world would be much better today if the inquisition had continued. Who cares if a few Reds have to be burned at the stake, there would be social stability. Well said Dr Caroll.

[IrresponsibleAtheism]

The world would be much better today if the inquisition had continued. Who cares if a few Reds have to be burned at the stake, there would be social stability."

To me, and please don't take this the wrong way,

your statement is reminiscent of George Bush sounding off at the annual convention of Dutch poets.

;-)

[evaperonfan]

he makes George Bush sound tolerant.

[mmmbeachlover]

and?

so where's the 'truth' then? he's just skirting around it and completely ignoring the er um ah ethnic cleansing, sadism, merciless destruction and murder that went hand in hand with creating the terror that ensured political(religious) control in this place - not to mention the perverted zealots operating in the name of their God.

[mmmbeachlover]

silly old prick, the people of Spain WERE free under the moors, free to live as they had and free to practice their chosen religion...what propaganda lol...all a build up to justify the barabarism in the name of God...lol, wot a joke, wot an insult to the modern mind.

Buy it if you like fools.

[g00dfella613]

ummm not exactly. Islam was spreading faster than cancer, and Christians were being subject to pay the jizyah tax to the Muslims and second-class dhimmi status.

[mmmbeachlover]

totally, they were free to practice their religions..the Inquisition actually persecuted/slaughtered those of Christian/Jewish persuasion more than Muslims...the Inquisition not being restricted to Spain either.

[princefy]

well guess what---80% of spanish and portuguese native peoples studied islam and changed to the muslim religioun-and then the christians took over spain-and forced the spanish people who were mainly muslims to change to christian-why dont they ever tell you that most spanish changed to islam? why they avoid that in most documentaries?

[mmmbeachlover]

here here princeypoos!

Islam was a totally peaceful and progressive religion in Spain at that time and was embraced by many, it was Rome's fear of it's success that caused a problem.

Ironic how the table has turned in so many Islamic areas today.

[ssszar]

beachlover, so the muslim invasion of the iberian peninsula was the act of a peaceful and progressive religion? the spanish people fought an active war for over 700 years against the moors, in moorish occupied areas jews and christians had to pay a tax to the muslim leaders that muslims did nto, i imagine some converted to simply avoid the tax.

[mmmbeachlover]

I didn't think that was the topic of discussion, of course nearly all invasions are unwelcome and bloody.

Spanish people are still fighting for control and self government, nothing new there.

Seems reasonable to assume that some converted for financial reasons, the fact remains there was a peaceful existance witht other religions tolerated...and not put through the torment metered out by Rome.

[ssszar]

it was the topic of discussion because you made the state that islam was a totally peaceful and progressive relihion in spain, the fact is it was not, in moorish spain jews and catholics had to pay a special tax, people not of the muslim faith were not premited to carry weapons, and had to suffer abuse and not retaliat if a moor beat him.thats where the punch in knighting ceremonies come from

[ssszar]

your statement of the spanish people still fighting for self government is nonsense, france is not running spain nor is england, last i checked it was a spanish constitutional monarchy and one of the most decentralised governments in europe, and just so you know when the moors came namy christians converted for financial reasons,

[ssszar]

and more over it was not a peaceful and tolerant coexistence, the moors after nearly taking all of iberia continued to attempt to take france, and in the east pushed into romania, it was the blood of the spanish french italians portugese and romanians that saved europe from islam time and time again, while england sat on her protestant ass complaining about divorce. from 711 to 1492 the spanish fought an active campaign o ride spain of islam, the muslims were not tolerant of anything.

[mmmbeachlover]

we're talking about Spain, but you clearly have an agenda that doesn't suit all the facts.

[mmmbeachlover]

Basque region.

[mmmbeachlover]

Peaceful and progressive it was for many years.

Taxation maybe not awlays be fair but it has little to do with not being peaceful or allowing religious freedom n development, which was my point.

Usually a better society when the lawmakers are the only ones permitted to carry weapons. Note UK.

Yes, well they were naughty times, and beatings were dished out all over the known world thru this perdiod, and beyond. Order of the day, unaffected by faith.

[ssszar]

yes the point im making to your point is taht islam in spain was not progressive, there is not one thing they did in spain or anywhere else in europe that could be considered prgressive, your point about law makers carrying weapons, muslims were the only ones allowed to make laws there, and for your other point, jews and chatholics in spain in moorish spain did not ahve the right to self defense, what does the basque region have to do with anything, im of basque descent myself

[mmmbeachlover]

Investigate and examine.. there was progression in law, architecture, study and religious tolerance.

YES,the conquerors make the laws,see all other Empires Roman, British etc,.and look how those insitutions benefited the conquered nations for centuries.

The anglo saxon didn't have much self defenc against Norman rule,but it didn't stop those conquerors progressing,nor India etc

*sigh*. Basques - Spanish people are STILL fighting for independence.

[ssszar]

what progression in law, no right to self defence? no right to carry a weapon, the right to a special tax if you were a jew or a christian? architecture? they built a fort and mosque to benifit themselves no one else, the saxons have nothing to do with the conversation, and the basque region like every other province of spain are semi autonomus, the only people fight are the eta marxist terrorists

[aTruster]

ah, um, a, um ah.....ah, um, ah.

If you don't have a public speaking voice and ability to speak without a um, ah and um...please don't do it! it damages the ears. ah, um, um ar...OK.

[Alanant78]

I wander why people can even call it Christianity? Orthodox Christianity, an original religion of Apostles, was later turned into strange cult that introduced crusades, inquisition, wars of religion, paying money for indulgences, etc., things that have nothing to do with even the basic idea of Christianity, religion of love, tolerance and self-sacrifice. The very idea of killing, burning, and torturing people in the name of Jesus Christ sounds crazy to me.

[bloodyana86]

@Alanant78 you make a mistake.what you describe up there has nothing to do with orthodox

[hrmoore41]

@Alanant78 you mean catholicism

[Stgfre]

who is a racist prick?

[SansAuthoritas]

"inquisition was not keen on usuing violence in its courts this is anglophile fantasy."

Sir, I do not care a whit if those men were keen or reluctant to use violence, or whether they used violence or the threat thereof on a regular basis, or rarely. The fact remains that men with a monopoly on violence did use violence and the threat of violence to impose their wills on other men. They tried to defend articles of spiritual faith with physical violence. This was a grave attack on human nature.

[ssszar]

in north korea if your parents are in prison and your born in prison you remain there and undergo torture your whole life accourding to those who have escaped, i dont see what threat those prisoners could have to the communist state, they are usuing violence to defend their power and control over people power is not somthing that can be physicaly held in someones hand, the point is that the anglophiles think and made up stories about the inquisition that is not true.

[ssszar]

they did defend their faith but also the kingdom of spain from spies and heretics not with violence but with a legal system of courts which is what the inquisitiono was, give me an example of this anglophile fantasy of the inquisition torture chambers and the spanish chair and strapado and all that other made up nonsense.

[y100269]

ssszar,

it seems like the anglophiles arent the only ones saying this, but the natives of south and central america as well. how could this be?

[SansAuthoritas]

You may not morally use violence to directly defend an Idea, Mr. Carroll. You can only use violence to defend oneself from a real, grave, immediate threat that is the physical result of an intangible idea. Catholics, especially those who have gone through your college at Christendom, would do well to understand that fact. No man may morally initiate violence. Violence is only for self-defense.

[ssszar]

your assuming ofcourse that violence was used in all cases, the inquisition was used as a safeguard against false conversos who would seek to undermine the kingdom of spain and against protestant spies, the catholic faith and the kingdom of spain are an idea worth defending, one can also initiate violence as a means of self defence if a threat to ones own self or nation is present or immediate.

[SansAuthoritas]

I did not say or assume that violence was used in all cases. What does the Church (an institution whose only tool is convincing) have to do with the State (an institution whose only tool is coercing?) You mix those two and you have a contradiction of human nature.

Second: there is no such thing as "initiating violence in self-defence." If you are defending against violence, by its very definition, you are not initiating violence.

[SansAuthoritas]

Next... the inquisition was a means of keeping certain people out of the State based on religion, and if not explicitly used as a means, (torture, etc.) the eviction was backed up by force. If you were not a Catholic, you were forced out of office, with violence, ultimately.

Being a Protestant, or a Jewish or Muslim converso does not a grave OR immediate threat make. To anyone. You cannot defend a system of ideas, (e.g. the Catholic faith) with violence. It is impossible.

[ssszar]

in those days the church and the state were united, people did not suffer from the paranoia the anti religious left tends to, the inquisition was a court set up to determine the guilt or innoncence of individuals in regards to treason against the kingdom, being a jew or a muslim in itself was not a criem however many false conversos were acting in defiance of the laws and seeking its end, these false converts were put on trail and if found guilty and did not repent were then killed.

[ssszar]

"You cannot defend a system of ideas, (e.g. the Catholic faith) with violence. It is impossible. " if the communists of china and north korea dont use violence to defend communism, if the nazis didnt use violence to defend the idea of nazism if americans didnt use violence to defend the idea of american in the war of 1812, then what did they use?

[SansAuthoritas]

Ssszar, did the Communists actually and successfully defend, with violence, the false idea that private property is a crime? Did the Nazis successfully defend the false idea that fascism is a morally tenable position, and that the Aryan people were genetically superior? Did the Americans use violence to defend ideas themselves, or did they defend lives that were actually threatened by the manifestations of wrong ideas? Convincing stops where coercing begins, sir. Ideas are defended with logic.

[SansAuthoritas]

Truth is an immaterial entity: hence, they must be defended with immaterial means, such as logic and discourse. Bodies and property are physical entities, and as such, only they may be defended by physical force.

Is a man really defending the idea that is his honor if he punches another man out for insulting him? That is the idea of "defending an idea" that you hold.

[ssszar]

"did the Communists actually and successfully defend, with violence" not successfully but yes they did and still do use violence to defend the idea of communism, the nazis did use violence to defend the idea of nazism though not successfully. franco and the spanish did fight to preserve spain both physicaly and spiritually. the americans were not defending john smoes life but defending what they held to be right, that being democracy.

[ssszar]

life i see is both material and immaterial, so violence can be used to defend life. just as it can be used to defend a nation, a government a kingdom.that is what the inquisition was doing was defending spain. your example is not the idea i hold, the idea i hold is akin to a police officer who shoots a man in a dark alley that looked like he was pointing a gun at him, he would perseve a threat to his life and defending his life.

[ssszar]

but again the inquisition was not defending an idea it was defending a nation and a faith, the moor was no saint by anyones standards

[SansAuthoritas]

Ssszar, you say the inquisition was not defending an idea. What is a "nation," ssszar?

[ssszar]

yes they were fighting to defend their property and also the united states and democracy, they did not want to go back to pledging alligence to the english crown, now i personally do care for democracy but thats what they were defending.the whiskey rebellion was about opposing the tax on whiskey by the federalist government, i dont think the rebels there were seeking to overthrow the government but they reached a point where words no longer had any affect.

[ssszar]

a nation is a physical place, a nation is a group of people united in a cause, what i should have said is that a nation is more than an idea.

[SansAuthoritas]

The Hebrews were a nation. Were they a nation when they were in Egypt?

[ssszar]

yes i would say so

[SansAuthoritas]

Was their nationhood at all dependent upon their physical location? Were they a nation when they wandered in the desert?

[SansAuthoritas]

They didn't care about democracy, Ssszar. They were fighting to keep themselves from being forced to do anything at the point of another man's bayonet. If you had asked any of them, "Why are you fighting?" They would've replied, "Because they've got no business in my business: they have no right to tell me how to live, and they aim to do violence to me and my family." That is what they were fighting for. Control of their own bodies, to protect their loved ones, and for their homes.

[ssszar]

yes, they were a nation when they left egypt aswell, and if what you are saying is correct then why would george washington or some member of congress declare themself the king of america, after all he could still have fought the english as a king of america, but again the inquisition was justified in its defence of the faith and of the kingdom of spain, are you one of those leftists who think the moorish invasion was a good thing

[SansAuthoritas]

Ssszar, many people wanted George Washington to be the "king." Many didn't. Parliament was the king's accomplice in England, it must be remembered.

[SansAuthoritas]

As for the inquisition... violence is a physical entity. As such, it is suitable only for defending physical entities: human beings and property. Violence may not be used to defend ideas, as I said. Violence may also never be initiated. Violence is only for self-defense against physical attacks. You can't say, "Why did you kill him?" "Well, he was saying something that, if enough people believed him, and they physically acted on those beliefs, people might get hurt."

[SansAuthoritas]

If it were moral to act on such an insane notion, such a thing, politicians all over the world would be strung up in a heartbeat. The fact is, violence may only be used to defend against an immediate threat. Not one that may come about. In other words, one has to be under an immediate, actual, physical attack, or have certitude that such an attack is imminent. Catholic, Muslim, Jew? Does not matter. What matters is a man forcing people, by the sword or at gunpoint, to do what he wants.

[SansAuthoritas]

Initiating violence is wrong whether the thug in power is a monarch or whether he is elected, whether he claims to be a Catholic, is a Jew, or is a Muslim. It is wrong. No one, elected or not, may initiate violence against any other man, whether it be in the form of robbery with violence or the threat thereof (taxes) or slavery (conscription/"draft.")

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

agreed! However, Spain wasn't the only country persecuting Jews-they just get the worst press.

[SansAuthoritas]

To paraphrase the Catholic author Joseph Sobran, no individual, no group of individuals, and no corporation acting on their own productively-created wealth could ever have the means to accrue a body count of 200,000,000 people in the span of a single century. Only the state, with its power to tax and conscript, is capable of slaughtering so many people. It is, in part, for this reason, that I oppose the existence of the State. Any, I repeat, any alternative is less deadly and destructive.

[ssszar]

again the communitts have been using violence to defend their ideas since they have taken over certain countries, your assuming violence was used by the inquisition in the majority of time, the inquistion is not how it is portriaed in the movies with torture chambers and the like, it was a court system used to determain the guilt or innocence of heretics and false converts who did pose a threwat to the stability of the kingdom of spain

[ssszar]

violence can be used to defend physical property and the like and it can also be used to defend ideas, but again the inquisition was not keen on usuing violence in its courts this is anglophile fantasy.

[SansAuthoritas]

Again, the Communists were not defending their ideas. You cannot defend the immaterial with the material. It's like trying to capture the idea of "blue" in a steel cage. It cannot be done! The Communists, as well as every other kind of state-supporter, kill people who want to depose them from their power. That is not a defense of an idea, that is defense of one's physical control of physical goods. Do you see what I am saying?

[SansAuthoritas]

The Communists that are still extant are defending keeping themselves in power. They're not successfully defending the idea of Communism with violence. They're not able to make anyone believe in it, and all the violence in the world will not make their ideas true. "Spain" is not a physical entity. It is a collection of individuals who share certain beliefs and live on a certain plot of land. Spain would be nothing but land without the people. You can only defend people. Land gets walked on.

[SansAuthoritas]

Democracy? They weren't fighting for democracy. They were fighting to keep the Brits from taking their property. They were defending their bodies and property from the point of another man's bayonet, democracy be damned. The same way they revolted against "democracy" when Washington imposed taxes on their distilled products, a revolt that Thomas Jefferson approved of. Nobody cares about "democracy." They care about being left alone. About not being forced to surrender their property and bodies.

[SansAuthoritas]

"In those days the Church and state were united." So the Church (an institution of belief, which is the freely-willed assent to truth as perceived by the intellect) was using force to make sure people believed the right things. In other words, they tried to force the free will. That is torture. A grave sin.

[Stgfre]

what is that suppose to mean? Is that what is happening in austrailia!

[Stgfre]

Long live the reconquest long live the spanish inquistion! Long live the white race!

[efesair]

short penis..?

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

racist prick!

[albertohWP]

The Spaniards are the first Europeans to defeat Islam and keep doing so in defense of Western civilization and Europe in the Battle of Lepanto in 1571 or the Defence of Vienna.

[trinket01]

I totally agree with you, it was a demonic insanity that some of my family survived, thank G-d.

[dkrustyklown]

What do you expect the Spanish to do? The Jews had aided the Moorish conquest and domination of Spain for 800 years. It was no surprise that once the Christians had reconquered their country, they would aim their aggression against those populations which had cooperated with the Muslim invaders.

The Spanish of the 15th and 16th century viewed the Jews as collaborators with the Muslim hordes. Thus they gave the Jews three options:

1. Leave

2. Die

3. Convert

Sounds reasonable to me.

[albertohWP]

Spain was never dominated by the Moors 800 years. Do not confuse domain and occupation. The Moors never invade the entire territory, throughout northern Spain were barely 10 years. Eleven years after the Muslim invasion Don Pelayo defeated the Moors in the battle of Covadonga in the year 722, two centuries after the Muslims were divided into "kingdoms of Taifas" and that alone occupied the southern half of the peninsula.

[dkrustyklown]

You're right. They only dominated for less than two centuries. After that, the muslims split up into many tiny kingdoms. Some even became vassals of the larger Christian kingdoms to the north.

[rebmem88]

2007-750=1257 not 1480. I think he needs his pills.

[HerrGeneralVonBraun]

and the islamic tyrannyyyyy

[HerrGeneralVonBraun]

end the roman tyrannyyyyyyyyyyyy

[HerrGeneralVonBraun]

stop the censorship

[HerrGeneralVonBraun]

cocksucker removed my comment

[y100269]

The muslims, jews and protestants weren't causing problems in Spain. There is no valid excuse for these two monarchs to have started this Genocide! It's probably the biggest sin. They won't have any logical explanation for what they did on Jugement Day. At least muslims(not moslems) dont use the convert or die strategy.

[ssszar]

the muslims had no right to occupy spain, the christians were completly justified in what they did during the reconquista, and the muslems did and still do have a convert or die mentality, look at how those barbarians are acting in todays world.

[y100269]

(barbarians is a term that refers to tribes that formed the modern european nations and took over the roman empire) anyways the convert or die mentality people are not real muslims and i dont agree with them. you can snip all kinds of verses from the Qur'an but i know its all misinterpreted and poorly translated.

[ssszar]

no the term refers to anyone who acts in an uncivil manor, there were no collection of tribes known as the barbarians. there were lombards, franks, goths, and so on but no tribe known as the barbarians, i think you misunderstood me, now as far as the quran goes, maybe it does not say to kill the infadel, maybe it is a misinterpretation, however look at the religous violence being commited in todays world, its being comitted mostly by muslims not hindus not buddhists its being comitted by muslims

[ssszar]

but again, the historians tend to whitewash history and make the moors out to be saints because they built one school, no it was an occupation, and occupation that lasted for 700years, and when spain finaly reconqured its riteful territory the monarchs created and institution to insure the unification of the newly liberated kingdom of spain, thus the inquistion was born, unlike what dan brown wants you to believe, it had nothing to do with burning witches.

[Iarma]

"Kingdom of Spain" didn't existed then, it was created on 1715, when Phillip V conquered the Kingdoms of Aragon, Valencia and Mallorca, and the County of Barcelona, which merged with the Crown of Castile in the Kingdom of Spain.

[y100269]

There's a lot of other wars that are going on right now but the media turns a blind eye on such as Congo, Rwanda,Angola, Haiti. Remember that there are over 1.6 billion muslims now and the world population is about 6.7 billion. China's population is 1.4 billion. Of course it would be very easy to find a some groups of whackos. You turn on the tv everyday and hear about male rapists all the time, that doesnt even come close the 3 billion males out there. The spanish muslims weren't like on tv.

[ssszar]

of course there are alot of other conflicts going on in the world, however if you look at what the muslims are doing in todays world is nothing new, in asia muslim are using terrorism to expand into the philippins, look at whats going on in darfur at the moment is the prsecution of black africans by musims, that aspect is never ocvered by the muslims, the muslims again attacked spain on march 11th 2004, whats going on here is nothing new since islam seems only capable to spread through the sword

[ssszar]

but this is getting off topic, the topic is the spanish inquisiton and how its been misunderstood or lied about throughout history, as i stated before the inquisition was a neccesary tool in insuring the unity of the nation of spain that had just been liberated, if you look, (and yes i know that not all muslims support what going on in todays world, not all muslms are violent, just as not all christian ae like the protestant kkk)

[y100269]

"islam seems only capable to spread through the sword" There are 20 000 new converts in the US every year.

[ssszar]

there is only around 5 million muslims in america, in the 1990s it was in the 6 million mark, so we are seeing a decline in the muslim population, again this is getting again your getting off topic, the issue is the inquisition and how ppl have not been properly informed as to what it really was, it was not an evil organization that went out rounding ppl up for no reason as some ppl tend to think

[GoddessofHyrule]

Muslims don't use the convert or die strategy? Don't make me laugh! That's in your Koran!

[y100269]

goddessofhyrule

if you're referring to the "slay them wherever you find them" verse, you should know that "them" was the Meccans who persecuted the Muslims for years. They didn't allow Judaism, Christianity or Islam to be practiced. It is typical for western media to take this verse and twist it to their likings.

[Loafy1212]

What many people today believe to be the Inquisition is a MYTH, fabricated by Protestants to malign the Catholic Church. The BBC (an organization that is usually very hostile towards the Catholic Church) for once came to it's defense when it made a documentary exposing the historical errors of the Inquisiton. Just go on google and enter "THE MYTH OF THE SPANISH INQUISITION" and click on the very first result you get by the same exact title. It's so true!

[dkrustyklown]

You are correct, sir.

[albertohWP]

After the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa in the year 1212 the Moors were no longer able to cope with the Christians who remained in Granada due to the huge taxes they paid until they finally expelled the Reyes Catolicos.