Anthony Quinton on Spinoza and Leibniz: Section 1

[lelouch3]

Leibniz sounds like a whack job.

A brilliant one, mind you.

[DeteriA]

@lelouch3 Well, he did think Calculus is proof of God...

[BagarozziBoi]

@lelouch3 Yes, Leibniz was truly bonkers, his ontological theory of monads is a case in point. I wouldn't be surprised to learn he was partial to various palliatives from the good ol' 17th C medicine cabinet!

[TheNuncFluens]

That accent makes him 25% smarter.

[SarahStarmer]

I like the music at the start does anyone know what it is?

[childericking]

@SarahStarmer I think it is Shostakovich's 8th, movement3. Not sure though

[brendaludeman]

55

[brendaludeman]

bh

[MrAnthonyVance]

A most fascinating discussion ... rare ... precious ... like a fine wine. Thank  you.

[TheGergaliciousness]

what was this show called?

[Vandenbu]

Kant just pulls the covers over his head--he doesn't combine rationalism and empiricalism.

[BagarozziBoi]

@Vandenbu Well if you insist on being pedantic, yes. Loosely speaking he does though, by refusing to give epistemic or ontological priority to either side of the internal/external or subject/object divide. Ok the whole question of complementary transcendental idealism and empirical realism, and where exactly Kant stood on these issues is a good deal more subtle than that, but what can you expect in a 25 minute TV program aimed at the informed layman...

[saintdracula1]

This is better than porn. Not that I watch it - I've just heard.

[peppilepiu]

No issues, no apparent hidden agendas.....no "I think therefore I am right" kind of garbage. Just a gentle expression of ideas to consider. Keep FOX and PBS out of it...find a tiny spot next to CSPAN2.....it could happen.

[GelandnaleG]

9:06am Thursday (CDT) - Time ME

[Rico8458]

how does kant, humboldt, lessing, herder, goethe, schiller, and fichte relate to leibnitz?

[Keysteeze]

Was not Spinoza a Panentheist? Not that the universe was God, but that the universe was a part of God.

[flimflam0069]

@Keysteeze The Universe, insofar as it is observable reality, is completely identical to Spinoza's idea of God/Substance. He was a pantheist. The only part about his philosophy which backfires on his (as far as god goes) was that the notion of there being an infinite # of attributes, and our only knowing two of these, implies to some extent, of a transcendent God, while he only argues for an immanent one, which actually some ways could be argued as being transcendent!

[Keysteeze]

@flimflam0069 lol. Well I am sure it all made sense in his mind

[muranyiii]

@Keysteeze yes

[alifeofreason]

Smart people usually don't watch much television, they spend their time reading. Therefore, television programs usually target "lame brains".

[morvensky]

@alifeofreason If they had programs like this, smart people would watch television more often.

[seekfears]

google Doe's Account.

[kcscene0]

Man, that couch looks comfy.

[razoodocks]

I love the way this guy coughs and they don't even edit it out. One sofa, a few still images and two people who know what they're talking about talking about it in an engaging manner. It's all you need. And the BBC pisses away millions on 2 Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps. Modern life is shit.

[geekorthodox9]

This discussion and Zappa's 'Lumpy Gravy' seem to approach the same situation through different means.

[jerryhello100]

These are great.

[FaaarLeft]

"Within every object's character there contains a knowledge of it's future and past."

Crazy, unprovable things like this turn me off to Leibniz's philosophy.

[ThomasDeLello]

It is known now that the anchient Greeks knew Calculus, but that has come to light very recently and this video must be of an earlied date that that.

[Kitsua]

Thanks for this video. I've just discovered both Spinoza and Leibniz - so much to learn!

[CultOfByron]

A really superficial comment but Anthony Quinton sounds a LOT like Colin Wilson.

[marianiiina]

TEAM LEIBNIZ

[juresaiyan]

Leibniz and Spinoza were GODS on earth!

[Theknopf]

Spinoza for me was a hidden Kabbalist like many Jewish thinkers that had to change his name to Benedict to be published, therefore we lose the Hebrew influence. Spinoza said nothing new, Jewish history, older calendar. Childhood influence creates the intention. Thankyou.

[ogirv101]

I would disagree, peopel depict Spinoza as a Pantheist, he was in fact a Panentheist not a Pantheist. Spinoza believed nature was part of God, but that God was more than just nature and material. Spinoza's God wasn't materialism, he believed God had ifninite ammount of attributes making him more than nature rather than just nature itself. Spinoza believed in a God that transcends the Universe, being part of it and at the same time distinct, A living God, beautiful philosophy.

[robiniseenvos]

@ogirv101 - You say 'JUST nature'? what do you mean by that? -Spinoza would never agree with what you say about Spinoza's 'beliefs'.

I think you are projecting your own (whishful?)thinking on his ideas here.

-He is very clear about his thoughts, you don't need to think for him.(just read it)

I think he has proved to be able to think for him self , more than anyone else..

[ogirv101]

@robiniseenvos:

What claim did I make about Spinoza's belief? None, I claimed he was not a Pantheist, wish is explicit in his own writings. Furthermore, if you wish to accuse me of wishful thinking, mind proving it rather than just blatantly talking nonsense?

[alansready]

@robiniseenvos

[BagarozziBoi]

@ogirv101 Good point, and an important distinction. Spinoza cannot be charged with nature-worship, his concept of divinity allows for immaterial/transcendent values such as truth, beauty and love to be admitted on an equal footing to purely material ones such as entropy, dominance and power. Nature herself is value-free with respect to any concept of the good, or persons as ends etc, and if Pantheism is taken to its logical conclusion you end up with little more than a death-cult.

[trisky1234]

dJust what I needed for my test tomorrow to pull it all together! Thanks!

[mwells219]

it's a shame that we don't have intellectuals of this caliber on American television.

[zardak111490]

well you do have probably the best living intellectual: noam chomsky

but shame he's mostly interviewd by idiots

[mach1man22]

I agree with that except for the one interview that he had with Zac De La Roca from Rage..that was quality

[barrywinehousexp]

Television is a shame in-itself. ;)

[TheAntiNICE]

@mwells219 We don't have these programs on British television anymore as well.

[slovakmath]

@mwells219 its a shame we don't have intellectuals like this anywhere in the west at this moment

[philonous09]

@mwells219 TYeah, all we have is Oprah and Dr. Phillips, who hardly qualify as such.

[Quinibus]

@mwells219 I dunno. I kinda like Howie Mandel.

[Stereolabdream]

Sadly, the BBC would never dream of making a programme such as this today. Even BBC 4 would require it to be hosted by a "celebrity intellecual" (You can add the name of your choice) and the idea of two people spending 25 minutes in discussion would be absurd.

How sad.

So this is a real gem!

Thanks to all concerned!

[RationalEmotive]

I totally concur and we are not some Quixotic outsiders or the top decile of the IQ distribution; but the average man on the street wishes to have more sophistication and articulation on his programs.

The BBC still produces products of value but standards do have fallen. I blame the controllers. Since Attenborough has left his successors abandoned the Humboldtian idea of education.

peace.

[andyct1982]

Some intellectuals I've seen do become celebrities themselves, even coming from obscurity. The progression of science and technology, gotta love it.

[OrisLover]

@Stereolabdream That's really sad to hear.

[Pittounikos]

@Stereolabdream Back in the 70's the BBC's ethos was to educate the proles. Sort of like the theory of trickle-down economics. Pump out quality programs and hopefully it will seep into the body politic. Today the BBC has completely given in to the politicians and the press, who accuse it of elitism and being out of touch with the people etc... Thus the BBC is forced to entertain rather than to educate and to compete with commercial crap so it can justify the licence fee.

[BagarozziBoi]

@Stereolabdream Sad but true, for me television is basically dead. Fortunately nowadays we have the internet.

[silvodj]

oh my god!!!You haven't something to do instead of discussing on spinoza and leibniz!!!....take a break!!!!!!!

[ashburnhouse]

Isn't Spinoza the favorite of Reginald Jeeves?

[Thraikios]

He is indeed.

When not busy solving Wooster's problems, he likes to relax with "improving" books such as the complete works of Spinoza.

[ashburnhouse]

Thanks;-)

[DiegoCR74]

You are upset because you don't undertand a word and think nobody does.

[inkonwater]

This reminds me how much immensely messier, livelier, and more provocative philosophy has become since the interview happened. Thank you for uploading!

[inkonwater]

Thank you for uploading these.

[sysexit]

Philosophy is grossly overrated. And philosophers are merely guessers who are usually wrong. And their 'sophistication' is a charade.

[DiegoCR74]

Says someone who doesn't understand a word of philosophy.

[sysexit]

Is that a statement? Is this? Ooooh!

Let me correct myself. Philosophers are grossly overrated. They are merely guessers and their sophistication is a charade. And why? It's your fault. I don't know why I'm bothered.

[DiegoCR74]

You are bothered because you don't understand.

[sysexit]

No, that's not why. I'm bothered because it is you who doesn't understand philosophy, but you still idolize it precisely because you don't understand it. You are a phony. You are like the idiots who quote Adam Smith without having read the inquiry.

Do hit me with another single sentence reply, please. Don't do it.

[ekuhlkamp]

If you could actually come up with a significant argument as to how philosophy is overrated, then maybe people wouldn't be irritated by your comments.

Let's have a look at philosophy's contributions:

- Within the last 200 years, most of the logic governing computers has been theorized by philosophers such as Ludwig Wittgenstein and Kurt Gödel, among others. (Yes, philosophers made the very computer you're using now possible).

[thenerocomplex]

you have it wrong. spinoza states that philosphers got it wrong too. they should being asking why or is, but what and how. and by applying the question of what your statement means identifies that you are a fucking idiot.

[thenerocomplex]

shouldn't be asking why it is*

[ekuhlkamp]

- The concept of energy refined by philosophers over hundreds of years, such as Schopenhauer, which has led to some of humanity's most significant discoveries, such as general and special relativity.

- The entire field of physics for that matter, which, again, has been refined by innumerable philosophers over the centuries, such as Socrates, eventually leading to significant breakthroughs in the form of Newtonian physics (Newton himself was a philosopher).

[Myndir]

All natural science originated out of philosophy.

Ditto political thought, economics and of course the major theories of value in the world, including Christian, Islamic, Hindu and Buddhist ethics.

[ekuhlkamp]

- Mathematics, where Calculus was created by Leibniz and Newton.

I could go on, but I won't. I think it's safe to say that "Philosophy is grossly overrated" is a very incorrect statement to make.

[bshepps77]

the term rationalism refers to a philosopher like Plato, Leibniz, or Spinoza. In historical parlance, it can also refer to an atheist or a freethinker. Baruch Spinoza's pantheism would hardly qualify as "rationalism" in that sense.

[ludachris475]

Leibniz is superior to Descartes.

[worthy99]

Is there an episode about Descartes? I couldn't find it.

[ludachris475]

Leibniz is superior to Spinoza.

[littleredbirdy]

Spinoza is superior to Leibniz.

[Jonathanio3]

I am very glad there are some reasonable videos here on youtube, thanks a lot. ;-)

[seaofclay]

VERY GOOD!!!

[CapitanoGUC]

spinoza = rationalist ????? - don´t think so ....

[pilatech]

care to expound upon your thought?

[petkragh]

Everything is so... brown. :) But a lovely conversation anyway. Thanks.

[Therapix]

this is... awesome. thanks

[DanHipp]

Thanks so much for this.