Darwin Series; Judge John E. Jones III

[reanimated6]

The horror christians bring upon the world never cease to amaze me.

[Nevangelus]

Death threats from Christian? surely not, you jest me, good sir ;)

[muhammadzahmad]

this is worth watching...

[thegreeensky]

nice video.. interesting...

[TAz69x]

Stupid people shouldn't have a say in educational policies.

[darwinkilledgod]

I met this man at the annual meeting of the Human Behavior and Evolution Society. A few speakers at the conference took some cheap shots about "racist" Republicans. I was ashamed.

[imrich6]

A highly educational and informative lecture! Thanks very much for posting this video.

[bingofingers]

@sloanishy It may be the case that you can't ascertain given numbers alone the range of expertise on either side of a debate which is why I said I was making no more than a guess. However there is plenty of sociological data that would make somebody who endorsed creationist thinking over scientific theory as being less likely to have stayed on in higher education so it reasonable to assume that more people liking this video on a university site as being as self selecting academics.

[bingofingers]

@sloanishy It may be the case that you can't ascertain given numbers alone the range of expertise on either side of a debate which is why I said I was making no more than a guess. However there is plenty of sociological data that would make somebody who endorsed creationist thinking over scientific theory as being less likely to have stayed on in higher education so it reasonable to assume that more people liking this video on a university site as being as self selecting academic.

[bingofingers]

@sloanishy Because the audience is self selecting and the content is not packaged as a Fox News sound bite but as an educational piece which would probably put off a lot of people with those views. But thats a guess.

[sloanishy]

@bingofingers, if the audience is self selecting in these types of issues, its hard then to determine the side which is in the majority with the weight of numbers and the side which is in the minority claiming the weight of the most "educated" experts. Or as it seems in this issue, who has the majority of the most educated experts' agreement. And in such case, John Jones is in line with the norm, the establishment, the position with positive reinforcement.

[sloanishy]

One of his main points is that a majority believe in creation, and he was therefore standing for the rule of law against the masses. Why is there 111 likes to 2 dislikes of this video?

[Belgianmeth]

@sloanishy

Maybe the 70 minutes length?

I guess creationists watching this quit before he gets to the Terri Schiavo case..

I've noticed the other long video's in the suggestions >>>

get few dislikes as well. Maybe someone should make a study of video length vs dis-/likes for both evolution and creationism vids. ;-)

[Jussimania]

He was appointed by Bush. The best thing he ever did.

[Tapiola2007]

Maximum respect to Judge Jones but let's be honest here: any rational unbiased judge should have found that the attempt made by the school board to get ID into the school science curriculum was unconstitutional. ID is clearly not science and as such could never have been acceptable. Only a partisan judge with a Christian agenda sympathetic to ID would have ruled in its favour. Judge Jones merely made the only decision possible, but we should be happy he did!

[bburkie55]

Cameras in the U.S. Supreme Court would reveal Clarence Thomas sleeping during arguments.

[GrandSupremeDaddyo]

His quotation from 'Democracy in America' is profound. Democracy is a system that depends upon an educated electorate, and it's all too apparent that the US media has mastered the art of peddling ignorance and bias to the population.

[FreeeeS]

The US Constitution was top notch based on the advanced top PHILOSOPHICAL ideas of it's time. Though when the law says every american can own a gun I think the framers meant MUSKETS!!!

[rkyeun]

@FreeeeS

They meant military-grade weapons. The idea was that should the government ever become as unbearably dictatorial as the nations America established the constitution to prevent it from becoming, the citizenry could overthrow the government and begin anew.

[FreeeeS]

my fave books on FB are The Selfish Gene and The U.S. Constitution

[Newenlightenmentnow]

I thought the Russian judge had tremendous insight. I wish they mentioned his name.

[HiveDes]

Hey Republicans.

This is an example of a rational conservative who conducts himself with dignity. Take a lesson out of his book for once.

[keggerous]

this man is the reason why our system is better then most . . . . its not perfect but at least we can do something.

[FreeeeS]

all this fight over evo vs creatard is a defining moment for US history or of the world in the far distant futur this age will be documented in historical "databases" as HISTORICAL

[davelantor]

3:35 .. even though it wasnt what she meant to say, I think most of us could agree that it was as equally acceptable statement.

ID =! Education

[TAz69x]

LOL, Judge Jones is COMPLETELY talking about Behe at ~54:00+, isn't he?!

xD

[sinmantky]

Judge Jones looks like JT Walsh

[MrJdgr8]

People like Judge Jones are the pillars of American values and we should all be proud of him.

[Meskiagkasher]

@MrJdgr8 american values? you mean television and potato chips?

[TAz69x]

Judge Jones is an amazing man. I want his autograph!

=3

[Guitcad1]

What I like about this man is that after hearing all this I still have no idea what his own personal beliefs are. He is all about the law.

[williamcardno]

starts at 7:00

[leungchaan]

The fact, that Judge John E. Jones and his family received death threats because of his decision, speaks volumes of the mindset of religious nutbags.

[Floridanon407]

This man is what our founders truly had in mind when they established the judicial branch of our government.

Great man.

[TheMrDeist]

"... Intelligent Design as an alternative to education." I think that was more correct than as an alternative to evolution.

[quidproquo2004]

My name is Judge.

[temporaldisplacement]

Who da man! "J.JEJ da 3rd" da man!!

[tyrannosaurusinf14]

id as an alternative to education. exactly.

[HamsterFueledRocket]

lol "an alternative to education"

[xXshinzoXx]

A true inspiration of a man.

I'm glad he weighted his decision on this matter not because of his beliefs, but because of the evidence (or the lack of it in ID's case) on the Dover trial, as this was the pillar that withstood the brutal attacks enforced by religious biggots.

[ccp5150]

@xXshinzoXx:

That's exactly right. Judge Jones did an excellent job setting forth the profound dishonesty of the creation/intelligent design proponents and showed them to be the liars they are. Keep them out of our classrooms, and don't ever leave them alone with your children.

[JBeneforti]

He has to be the next judge appointed to the supreme court

[nekftw]

this is way too much discussion

Religious fucks are pathetic stupid morons who are allergic to serious thought, or too weak to deal with reality in a grown up , responsible way.

end of discussion

[IgnosticView101]

Don't generalize religious individuals, many of them aren't like that.

[farsight001]

...because people who resort to the insults of their five year old selves are so much more grown up and responsible, right?

[EndCatProductions]

the fact is...there is at least some evidence for evolution and absolutely NONE for god...just think

[ilikezappa]

ID as an alternative to education ( nice one prof ! )

[ISLAM4THICKONES]

Plus the fact there is a HUGE amount of evidence across multiple areas of science and medicine.

Supporting evidence in geology, paleontology etc.

[Entertainmentwf]

lol, I don't think 'some' really does the justice of the evidence of evolution LOL. Considering it's verified throughout multiple scientific fields.

[jwil2570]

Oh what? Educated people are educated people. What are the chances?

[procommenter]

Obviously there are many similarities betwixt simians & humans: fingers, toes, mammae, circulatory & endocrine systems, digestive & excretory functions and on & on. Similarly there are innumerable traits common betwixt humans & equines; between maggots & earthworms and so forth. A vivid imagination, which is the lynch pin upon which human evolutionary conjecture hinges upon, is a requisite for anyone who has a pathological need "to believe."

[SufferInJuly]

[theory : 5 : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE, SPECULATION, SUPPOSITION {her ~ that the house was once occupied by spies}]

[Entertainmentwf]

wrong definition of theory lol...use the scientific theory definition for theory... the other one is interchangeable to conjecture.

[d33pthought]

thanks for posting this- it was worth the hour.

[d33pthought]

as an aside- i'm not even to the judge yet, but the number of times these intro speakers say 'um' is making it hard to stay focussed. this makes the intro seem much less professional and expert, like they're almost winging it.

[williamthomaspowell]

I thought I was being overly critical when I noticed how weak the intro was. I understand this woman is not a professional speaker, but the standards should be higher. It takes away from what follows.

[billnj1444]

While i agree with his decision here there is one thing i would love to ask him. As opposed to everybody else he is addressing,I would like to ask him; Is it not scientific to teach that Darwin's has some factual scientific deficiencies? Secondly,would it be constitutional in his opinion,to teach intelligent design as a part of a history or social studies class that teaches about various religions?My science teacher taught me that if I was Catholic I had to deny evolution occurred.That is wrong

[williamthomaspowell]

Your teacher is uninformed regarding the Catholic stance on evolution. The pope has officially stated that evolution is not incompatible with church teaching. Contrary to common belief, the Catholic Church does not promote a strictly literal interpretation of the bible, as do some fundamentalists.

Why would it not be constitutional do discuss ID in a social studies class?

[billnj1444]

Yes I know my teacher was/is wrong(I am Catholic). That was my point (sorry if i was not clear). I also agree with you and that was my other point-according to the judge ID should be permissible to teach in social studies. Further, I think it needs to be taught given the common incorrect belief that Catholics cannot accept evolution.

[williamthomaspowell]

Surprisingly, George Bush admitted on Nightline the other day that evolution is not incompatible with his biblical beliefs.

[FreePlay]

"Surprisingly, George Bush admitted on Nightline the other day that evolution is not incompatible with his biblical beliefs. "

Maybe so, but he certainly personally espouses ID and supports its teaching in science classes.

Man, am I glad he's gone.

[jwil2570]

We don't waste time talking about fairy tales. If you believe creationism should be taught in science class than you must also teach about the three little pigs in our building construction class, Jack and the Beanstalk for agriculture, Little Red Riding Hood for economics, and the Muffin Man in our cooking class.

Similarities:

Talking pigs=Talking Bush

Beanstalk to cloud fortress=Chariot to cloud fortress

Bears living in a house=Man living in a whale

Muffin Man=I don't know the muffin man

[billnj1444]

jwil2570 i certainly didn't say i thought "creationism" should be taught in science class. the point is science class should teach that random mutation and survival of the fittest are scientifically very weak. therefore science still has much to learn in order to explain evolution. finally, you should know that the Pope recognizes evolution (just not that evolution disproves the existence of God)

[jwil2570]

Random mutation and survival of the fittest/most capable are the theorized mechanisms by which evolution occurs.

Even if these ever increasing credible theories were weak, it wouldn't go against the evidence that evolution actually occurs. Suppose we arrive at a scene of a car accident. Cars are mangled and thrown about. From what we see, we can't actually tell how it happened. Does this mean we should question whether the accident actually occurred?

Theories and evidence are different things.

[jwil2570]

billnj1444

Your right, evolution doesn't disprove a god. That's a silly myth that keeps creationism alive in the first place. I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I cling to false ideas that would somehow increase the credibility of my own beliefs. If god does exist, evolution is the mechanism by which she created us.

God leaves fingerprints in his work. We call it evidence.  Jwil2570

[billnj1444]

So Jwil2570, we agree: Science proves evolution actually occurs. How it happens is the work that current and future scientists still have yet to figure out. While I am not an atheist like you, I don't cling to false ideas to increase credibility of my own beliefs. It is just that I am comfortable with both science and God without feeling one must choose either / or.

[jwil2570]

Well, I wish the majority of theist had your insight. Although I say I'm an atheist, I don't claim there absolutely is no god. I just lean towards the possibility of there not more than there is. Know what I'm saying? Science pretty much does disprove all the organized religion that I know of. If god exist, he is the ultimate scientist. Therefore, I think that we should feel obligated to learn his works in a scientific manner. Theist=open mindedness / Religious=Empty mindedness

[FreePlay]

"If god does exist, evolution is the mechanism by which she created us."

Then God is just the universe, and there's no need to call it God or worship it.

[FreePlay]

"finally, you should know that the Pope recognizes evolution (just not that evolution disproves the existence of God)"

FYI, the official position of the Catholic church is that this is a lie perpetuated by the media, and that the church has never accepted evolution.

Not that a religious pontiff's acceptance of the truth is at all relevant.

[ulbh]

"random mutation and survival of the fittest are scientifically very weak"

Natural selection is not the entirety of biological evolution, nor is it in any way "weak." Making that claim indicates to me that you just haven't done the math.

[hooah68]

i liked the story about the Russian Judge. interesting

[federalD]

The decision of that case was an important step in the right direction. If the fundies had gotten their way it would have been a step back towards the pre-enlightenment period and we would have eventually become a society full of hive-minded, ignorant people if we'd kept giving ground.