The people who you put in front of the camera to criticize the "Church" of Scientology are just as important as the evidence/arguments you have against them. This is not the ideal person I would put on the front-lines.
The title is deceptive. I'm sure everyone clicking on this was expecting to actually have Miscaviage on here and some kind of dialog instead of some poorly-spoken guy kind of rambling on in front of a blanket.
I'm sorry; I'm 100% against Scientology, but this just isn't good..
Scientology resolves itself. It all works out to a simplicity. Get co-audited, do the work, clear the planet, go free. You are an aberrated moron that needs to be put back into the RPF.
There are many peoples across the field working on various ends. To make it short we all know the devious agenda of various beings who seek to stake their claim on this reality and the reality perceived by the human mind. Look at a persons face at a key moment in time and you see that thing, that creature which controls and meddles in the affairs of that sentient being and that creature is a mere extension of self.
D M is a Sociopath. and he has proven that. and the Scientologist are waking up inside their Fair game church... Keep protesting they Freaks. STOP HURTING FAMILEYS SCIENTOLOGY. THE WORLD KNOWS WHO YOU ARE.
If your a scientolist your waisting your life. If your going out of your way to hate scientology then your waisitng your life. Leave it all alone and do something thats scary or makes you happy! One day you will wake up and think i should of done this or should of done that and it will be too late because in the end when your dead its all bollocks anyway. spliff time!
Religion & Scientology are tax-exempt; & like the fairy tales Mother Goose & Jack and the Bean stalk: Written to help the frightened little monkeys sleep at night
The belief in one fairy tale over another is completely arbitrary - And depends on which frightening story you heard as a child
In reality, people are simply afraid of the responsibility associated with having an "internal locus of control" - Thus, they invent saviors to hide behind when it gets dark out at night
""For whose benefit is this video made? Does anyone really believe that DM will watch this video, let alone take heed?"" Oh he mioght well watch it, rolling around pissing hiself laughing while he imagines the 1 minutes worth of interest on scifientology bank accounts that replaced the 800 grand they paid out...
@subculturestereo I say we kill Miscavage in a horrible and disgucsting way. Take a blowtorch to his balls. Slice him slowly right down the middle and turn him upside down.
@murderousbastard83 I find your suggestions of what to do to David Miscavige brutal, disgusting, horrific, barbaric, and absolutely vicious. Let me know if you need a hand because Miscavige is the biggest piece of shit on the surface of the planet.
"The man was just telling a story! It only had an edge of shadiness when you came along and started character assasinating the man."
He was not only telling a story, far from it. He was asserting without substance. Gerry did it all to himself. Ask him what he did with the $800,000, but you will not.
"Dead agenting much? "
I only pointed out your uncriticalness in the matter.
"Why did Scientology pay a settlement of $800,000 if Gerry Anderson is a liar (as wiseoldgoat has asserted)? "
Find out. It however doesn't imply any authenticity of the Affrimations. You are also overlooking that ther were 21 boxes of materials that 'honest' Gerry had taken.
Gerry do you think David Miscavige would've burned all these admission papers by now, or has 'source' still got him by the balls from beyond the grave?
2. "Gerry asserts he does not explain or substantiate with proper verification." So if Gerry ALLEGEDLY is telling us he is just all talk, why do we need you to tell us he's a bullshit artist?
3. Find out what? If the admissions are just a tale of someones rambles (as you've asserted) what's there to find out?
I spent 8-9months in Scientology for some insight relating to my thesis.
Where do I begin with Co$'s shady, criminal and unethical behaviour?
1. I'll agree with you that what you're saying doesn't make much sense
2. An assumption? All I stated was a hypothetical wiseoldgoat, when you assume you make an 'ass' out of yo'u' and 'me' (ever heard that one?)
3. "The burden of evidence is unto Gerry," yeah to prove it right. The burden of evidence, if you wish for it to be proven wrong, is with you. "If he ain't got anything, then should I prove he ain't got anything??" ....ah yeah!!
You appear prejudiced as you are unable to criticize Gerry Armstrong. Useless to discuss these matters with you.
Your response to #3 in fact is absurd.
#1. Anyone can state these things that Gerry asserts ("I destroyed the copies, and I now telly you about that, but they are authentic nonetheless"). Don't you get it? If he ever had such copies for real, he would NEVER destroy them. But his tale make for a great story.
I 'appear prejudiced' because I haven't criticized Gerry..... so I need to criticize the man to not be prejudiced (that makes sense).
"Your response to #3 in fact is absurd."
Sorry you feel that way, but both you and Gerry are making claims.
If you can show me where Gerry says "I destroyed the copies, and I now telly you about that, but they are authentic nonetheless" then I could agree with you, but from the response here you are acting very defensively (not very credible behaviour).
If I asserted the world was flat you would need to offer some evidence to show why it isn't wiseoldgoat.
Humans are funny like that, we only accept something to the contrary until some form of proof is given to substantiate otherwise!
Two claims don't make a fact. And as for the Emperor's New clothes would you like me to explain the moral from that story or do you think you can see how it applies here?
L ron was into little boys...his own son said it. don't blame slappy got the info from the kids mouth. keep it up gerry watch them shake behind thier masks of false dominance.
Whoa, I was in Amway in the early 80's. I agree there are cult-like aspects, but real goods are bought and sold and nooooobody claimed to cure radiation burns.You can have a productive home business with Amway without going into the Kult nonsense.
Amway use several forms of mind-control, very cult like. Many a family / friendship has been destroyed by Amway. They use mind-control techniques, especially when they are signing you up or you attend one of their weekly/monthly group meetings.
I agree, someone with a strong mind & moral compass can succeed in Amway without being swallowed up, unfortunately those people are a small minority. The majority of Amway recruits take the bait, in time replace their own family with the "Amway family".
Hey man we feel your pain and will continue to fight until this monster is over. I give you lots of respect because you fought these people even when they were at their strongest. Thank you.
It's Gerry's affirmations, not LRH's. Gerry is unable to substantiate any authenticy of these papers. he even destroyed the copies he received. He ain't got nothing. Ask him for evidence of authenticy. ASK him...
What, you thought slavery was abolished in America in 1865? That is what I thought also. It would seem that a fellow by the name of David Miscavige has hundreds of slaves at his property in California. He beats them regularly and if they try to escape they are hunted down and thrown into a concentration camp called the RPF, unable to see their loved ones for years on end.
It that be true, then why is Miscavige not effectively brought to justice?
Now what is allowed within the subject of Scientology and what not? What is Scientology? Any which way you need to establish what is the subject, the rules of the game, and what is people. Let not try anyone to beat me, there will be consequences.
Real tough guy when Miscavige isn't watching. Go up to David Miscavige and disagree with him. When he tells you to STFU, disagree with him again, then wait for the bitch slap. As for the consequences of you defending yourself against DM, well, lets just say all witnesses will say you threw the first punch.
"then why is Miscavige not effectively brought to justice?"
As stated before, all witnesses are Sea Org and will say what ever he wants them to say, the same as all cults.
"I know you're not a creator of the cult, you're a follower. I get your drift."
Apparently you don't get it. It's people within an organization that create or make up a cult, which is the follower. I never was and never will be. Think!
""Let not try anyone to beat me, there will be consequences."
What consequences would DM suffer if he was to beat you? "
Any person who does or attempts would suffer if ithey will do so. Figure it out.
"Any person who does or attempts would suffer if they will do so. Figure it out."
You're asking me to figure out your intentions, when there are many possibilities, you could;
cry like a baby while bleeding
run like a coward
call the cops
fight back (then get charged with assault)
take the beating and ask for another(sado bondage thing)
the list goes on and on, or you could just say what you would do if Miscavige used you as a punching bag like he does to so many others within the cult.
My "opinion" is not blind. My studies of cults & how they operate outside of normal society is extremely in depth. Your cult speak is no different to the Moonies, children of God, Hare Krishnas, Landmark, The Peoples Temple, Rajneesh Movement (Orange People)Reiki, Amway etc, the list goes on & on. Your statement on me having no understanding of these matters, couldn't be further from the truth. "Why talk about it?" So others might avoid the mind control techniques that sucked you in to the cult.
I simply question Gerry Armstrong's credibility based on the absence of proper substance for his claims in particulary the Affirmations he released in 2000. Then I say some things in favour of the subject of Scientolgy. And voilá I am immediately deemed a cultmember. After which more generalizations follow from your opinion of it all. Who is a cultmember here? It is the behaviour and approach that deems one to be one!!! Well Slappy, you accused yourself of that now.
You speak as if the "tone scale" has real meaning in society outside of the cult, when it has not.
You may not be a member of this dangerous cult, but you sure as hell act as though you are. The mind-control techniques employed by the cult of scientology are deplorable, there is absolutely no informed consent for use of hypnosis and the cult is held accountable to no-one but the cult itself.
How do you feel about the mind-control aspects of Hubbard's "religion"?
Well Slappy, it only means that you have no knowledge about that tonescale. It is as real as anything.
The subject of Scientology does not, I repeat, does not, advocate mind-control techniques. In the subject is seriously opposed to any such.
You make persistent claims but do not, I repeat, do not substantiate them with anything other than your opinion. And a prejudiced one as such. Get real...
Read about "Increased arousal hypnosis". This form of hypnosis is being employed when auditing is practiced. In addition because of the long time periods that auditing takes place, the person being audited goes into a natural hypnosis associated with the body's ultradian rhythm.
If pointing out the bad an organization is doing is prejudice to you, then you don't understand the meaning of the word. My dislike for the cult is very reasonable.
Gays = 1.1 on the tone scale, now that is prejudice.
You are a theorizer. You show nothing that displays your understandng of the subject. Where is your proper and supported evaluation.
An organization is only bad if particular wrongs can be pointed out in its writings. Then it will be people that turn it bad. It's people that make a cult, never an organization.
Again you show no understanding of the tonescale. You discuss a book of +500 pages and all you say is 'Gays = 1.1', now that is your prejudice. Where is your study?
It would seem that you don't have a problem with pigeon-holing a person because of his or her sexuality, much the same as Hubbard. So, do you agree with Hubbard's solution for homosexuals if Scientology failed to "cure" them? Don't you feel that "disposing" of them is a little over the top?
Gays = 1.1, yes that is prejudice and it was stated quite clearly by Hubbard, the source and founder of the organization, it is in the writings.
In Hubbard's 1951 book Handbook for Preclears, he set out instructions for Dianeticists to "cure" homosexuality. After claiming that the cause of homosexuality was a fixation on a dominant parent of the opposite sex, he advised: "Break this life continuum concept by running sympathy and grief for the dominant parent and then run off the desires to be an effect and their failures and the homosexual is rehabilitated."
Hubbard urged society to tackle the issue of sexual perversion (including homosexuality), calling it "of vital importance, if one wishes to stop immorality, and the abuse of children." In Science of Survival, he called for drastic action to be taken against sexual perverts, whom he rated as "1.1 individuals"
"Such people should be taken from the society as rapidly as possible and uniformly institutionalized; for here is the level of the contagion of immorality, and the destruction of ethics; here is the fodder which secret police organizations use for their filthy operations."
"One of the most effective measures of security that a nation threatened by war could take would be rounding up and placing in a cantonment, away from society, any 1.1 individual who might be connected with government, the military, or essential industry; since here are people who, regardless of any record of their family's loyalty, are potential traitors, the very mode of operation of their insanity being betrayal."
In this level is the slime of society, the sex criminals, the political subversives, the people whose apparently rational activities are yet but the devious writhings of secret hate."
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Sale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by unentrubulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
To me that sounds like an evaluation, but here you list 2 alternate option. Will I notice that you entirely focused on just one of them in your previous communications!
Either way what does dispose mean in the context as found in the book?
"but here you list 2 alternate option...... you entirely focused on just one of them in your previous communications!"
Wrong, my previous comments list both options;
"Do you agree with Hubbard's solution for homosexuals if Scientology failed to "cure" them? Don't you feel that "disposing" of them is over the top?"
Seeing as there is no "cure" for homosexuality, nor is there any need for one, Hubbard's solution is to lock them away until they stop being homosexual. That is the context.
You base your evaluation entirely on assuming certain things to be true or not true, and thus are prejudice. You also completely missed out on what the book is about, what its outset is, and how to relate the information.
You are also impractical. Homosexuals do not produce offspring, nor can they produce that.
You seem to be finding it hard to get your head around the fact that Hubbard was a serious homophobe and that his solution to any homosexual who didn't agree to stop being gay was to lock them away, removing their right to live in society. People who are infertile do not produce offspring, most women over the age of 50 can no loger produce offspring. What's your point? If you can't produce offspring you are of no value? More prejudices coming to the surface.
You have 'personal' issues with this and so you can not be objective nor rational concerning it. You condamn a person and a book because of one little thing contained within it. Where is your proper evaluation concerning him being a 'serious homophobe'?
You are also marvelously missing the point about my reference to offspring. Your comments are highly inadequate and in fact irrational.
You never even read the book. We know the deal here with you...
Why has the book been written? What is its outset? What does it say about how to take the information contained within it?
You continue to dance around the key questions that have been forwarded to you.
The matter remians the same. You focus on one little thing that you interpret and then find wrong with. And that you accordingly use to relentlessly attack a book and a person.
Disposing of people who have different lifestyles to ones self is very wrong. You say it is a little thing, but I'm pretty sure that the general public sees it another way.
"You focus on homosexuals. Why?"
The question isn't why I focused on homosexuals, the real question is why did Hubbard focus on Homosexuals.
"Why has the book been written?" For Ron to make money and further control people.
Excuse me? A 500 page book mentions homosexuals at some place. And you say Hubbard focuses on homosexuals? Are you quite sane? 1.1 is about a lot more than what you picked, and you picked homosexuals.
It's funny because you don't know the subject, and thus you make silly responses. Scientology was never about money. See HCO PL 23 Sept 64, show us how much you know!
If the subject was about controlling people it would not expose techniques that enslave man.
Hey, if your uncomfortable about discussing Hubbard's homophobia, I totally understand. But, you did ask for specifics regarding Ron's prejudices and I was only accommodating.
It must have really pissed him off that his son Quinten was a homosexual. I wonder if Hubbard's hatred of homosexuals played a part in Quinten's suicide. What do you think? I wonder why Ron couldn't cure his own son's homosexuality with the techniques he outlined in his "handbook for Preclears".
You are avoiding to explain yourself and conveniently ignore the queries forwarded to you. (see previous my responses) You have not given any specifics.
It also appears that you just adopt anything that some will tell you if it fits your prejudices and preconceived state of mind.
His name was Quentin. That he would have been homosexual is quite uncomfirmed. Also it is much more plausible that he was murdered. Damned! Check out the facts and the available sources on these matters!!
Hey, I'll say it agiain. If it's too dificult for you to discuss Hubbard's homophobia, that's fine, I'll drop it. Hell, I can fully understand how this would be disturbing for you to confront the fact that the leader of your cult was a bigoted homophobe.
As for Quentin not being gay....um ok then, sure.
The police report stated suicide. I have heard theories that he may have been killed but that was from people who wear tin foil hats. Do you have anything to back up your theory of murder?
Well Slappy, you are like Gerry Armstrong. You tell stories but don't do the research or give it proper substance. Your evaluation of, and your subsequent conclusion of L. Ron Hubbard suffering from homophobia is absurd and in fact insane. All you offer is 1.1 = homosexual something. So, are you actually quite sane yourself??
Yeah, the police report said suicide, great ain't it. You forgot the episode that no evidence was secured at the scene. There are many indicators that point at a coverup.
LULZ.. dude you suck at life.. stfu and gtfo of the cult.. no one cares what you have to say indoctrinated retard.. this is me being nice to a person like you..
fine BLEETER.... explain why your cult carried out "Project Normandy?" Why does a supposed "Church" need to come up with militarily named "PROJECTS" to systematically take over towns by "infiltrating there media and city hall"? BY "digging up dirt on all public officials"?
Explain goat... I am very interested to see how you spin this...
A sensible straightforwarded person would not allow him or herself to be fed with just bits and pieces of information and simply adopt the adherent interpretation. I guess that if you wish to know you need to get active. Your misconceptions however are the usual ones.
The propaganda is what you've eaten son.. it's sad.. NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO A CO$ ORG FOR ANSWERS!!!!
You should be able to fully describe your fucked up religion here.. the fact that you hide it like a coward proves it's a devious deceptive shit hole of a belief system.. l8.. you're pitied by all...
"The propaganda is what you've eaten son.. it's sad.. NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO A CO$ ORG FOR ANSWERS!!!!"
This is contradictive in itself from your part, but you don't see that do you...
the coward is the one that does not respond to pertinent questions, but instead starts to demand answers about other issues. Here it is about Gerry's Affirmations. This deems you being a twister...
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There is no need to silence Gerry. The more he says the more it becomes clear that he has little to say and no proper evidence to back up his assertions with. He asserts and that is basically all he does on this video. Let him explain why there is nothing found in the published writings of L. Ron Hubbard concerning using affirmations. The subject of Scientology is completely at odds with that. Then he may explain why the subject presents and educates people to NOT become slave.
When David Miscavige recounts his rise to power in the Church of Scientology - a journey that began when he quit high school at age 16 - it is mostly a story of war. War against renegade Scientologists. War against Scientology's critics. War against its one-time archenemy, the IRS. Miscavige's friends say he is "intense" and "insistent" and "doesn't suffer fools lightly." Scientology's critics say he is a bully.
To answer the billy goats gruff: I believe Gerry is being very clever here in addressing this to a 1st & 3rd person perspective. Yes he knows DM wont voluntarily release the papers because we all know DM's the devil, but he may have to show something if people ask, as Gerry later requests. Thus DM has to come up with something! Either he denies any admissions, which would be disastrous or he will white out salient bits like the USA Govt did with Roswell 47 from the freedom of info act in court.
Indeed Gerry is very clever, we all know that. If he just alleges he does not have to prove anything (he thinks). At least it will be hard to disprove anything if he only alleges.
I don't support your idea that Miscavige has to explain anything. Gerry does not have anything. He is also wanted by US law. Let Gerry explain why he physically destroyed the copies he claims that he had received! The BEST evidence he could EVER have, and he destroys that?
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I don't need to have evidence for anything that as the burden of proof is unto Gerry. I only have to point out inconsistencies. And there are many.
But be my guest and let him explain what he did with the $800,000 he received in his settlement. Today he calls himself penniless and bankrupt. All makes sense doesn't it.
I'd like to know how to get $800000 in a settlement too I know friends who only got 4 figures refunds back not 6. However Wollersheim beats them all with a staggering 9 million settlement! hang on is that right? how does the court decide these figures? obviously levels of post traumatic distress etc. Anyway maybe Gerry used the $ to improve Scientology to finish the bridge properly or something worthwhile. Can someone put Excalibur in my inbox as I cant find any condensed version in Gerry's site
Clearwater Sun, 16 May 1984, "Witness: Hubbard used black magic":
Scientology lawyer: "They are completely out of context."
6 Dec 1986, "Church of Scientology of California v. Gerald Armstrong: Mutual release of all claims and settlement agreement":
"... to be returned to the [CSI] ... Plaintiff agrees to return the following: ... (b) All originals and copies of documents commonly known as the "Affirmations" written by L. Ron Hubbard ... [Signed Heber C. Jentzsch]
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"... to be returned to the [CSI] ... Plaintiff agrees to return the following: ... (b) All originals and copies of documents commonly known as the "Affirmations" written by L. Ron Hubbard ... [Signed Heber C. Jentzsch]
The main argument being: The Affirmations have never been authenticiated in court by any proper means.
There were 21 boxes, the church simply wanted everything back that Gerry supposedly had taken. It was unknown what exactly all these boxes contained.
You are speculating about the Church of Scientology 'mindset,' speculating that the Church of Scientology "just wanted everything back ..." How would you know what the Church wanted? Were you there during the settlement talks?
This 'unspeculated' fact remains: The Church signed the document asking for the return of the "'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard." This particular passage in the agreement doesn't fit "simply wanted everything back."
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To V17kZJ
Will you please think for a minute! I propose the most plausible scenario. Or are you implying that others besides Gerry knew what all was in these boxes. Heber jentzsch didn't know, the Scientology lawyers didn't know.
Apparently also you are not familiar with the whole 'settlement document'. It is a long list. It fits in very nicely indeed.
So you question the things I say, are you able to question Gerry ?
"Heber jentzsch didn't know, the Scientology lawyers didn't know."
How would you know what they did or they didn't know?
Again: The Church of Scientology International (CSI) signed the document which spells out "'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard." I repeat: "written by L. Ron Hubbard." Again: "written by L. Ron Hubbard." Add to this that the lawyer implicitly admitted with his "out of context."
Your only argument are speculations about what Heber C. Jentzch or CSI did or did not know.
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To V17kZJ:
Sorry, this is infantile. It can easily mean that it is made sure that those papers that were discussed very briefly in court would be included, *whatever* they were! Get familiar with court/lawyerspeak and procedures.
You don't get that this is no evidence for authenticity. When we are at it. Why did Gerry's lawyer not insist to authenticify them with a handwriting analysis or sorts?
I take it then that you can not put any criticism at the address of Gerry Armstrong, our all hero!
Gerry provides plenty. Gerry even makes available for all the see and judge for themselves Church of Scientology's own material on Gerry.
Church of Scientology provided *nothing,* and actually worked toward providing as little as it could. Church of Scientology requested the "Affirmations" sealed, and as well, never insisted to authenticate these in order to disprove them. The Church of Scientology requested and signed for the "'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard" to be returned in 1986.
If the Affirmations wouldn't be real and in Hubbard's own handwriting, then the CoS would with 100 % certainty said so after they got them back. They would have seen that they weren't written by Hubbard himself and would then have tried to Dead Agent Gerry with that.
Are you pointing at me? I have not the faintest idea who Vallarr may be. I point out factual discrepancies. You either can deal with that, or you can not...
The words of Gerry Armstrong:
"I am also posting the Admissions openly to confirm their authenticity.
The copy I received was not clear in places, and it is now gone."
Publishing some papers authenticiate them??? And then destroying the original copy he had received?? ]
Can the next viewers search "scientology" and see if this video shows up in the results. It is not for me. I might need a fitting for a tinfoil hat if I am wrong.
How do we know if these affirmations would be authentic? I am unable to find any evidence whatsoever for that claim. The supposed original handwritten version is simply not available. And we have no wittnesses that can confirm that what Gerry says or that the handwritten version would be for real. Therefore the only thing we can be sure about is that Gerry is not educating, he is telling stories. I amazed by the lack of demand for verification from those that posted so far!
"I amazed by the lack of demand for verification from those that posted so far! "
If you look at the title Gerry is actually talking to David Miscavige, he is asking him to release the handwritten affirmations and to make them available to the public. Gerry states quite clearly that the "proof" is in the hands of David Miscavige. Why would we ask him for the proof when he has already told us where the proof is?
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"Gerry states quite clearly that the "proof" is in the hands of David Miscavige. Why would we ask him for the proof when he has already told us where the proof is?"
Anyone can assert something like that. The burden of proof is unto Gerry Armstrong as he makes the claims. So far he ain't got nothing to show.
Will I also remind that the same Gerry claims to have had handwritten copies, but DESTROYED them. Also something that ANYONE can allege, convenient ain't it. Ask Gerry for positive PROOF.
I can only say it again. Gerry is talking to David Miscavige, not you and not me. He is talking directly to the person he says has the hand written notes, he is asking Miscavige to release the notes as part of the tech and rightly so. Now unless you or anyone else here is David Miscavige, we should all just STFU and wait for Davey boy to respond......... it may take a while though.
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"Gerry is talking to David Miscavige, not you and not me. He is talking directly to the person he says has the hand written notes, he is asking Miscavige to release the notes as part of the tech and rightly so."
Sorry, but are you infantile or something? Gerry ALLEGES, that is ALL he does. He is distracting the attention to someone else. If Miscavige would have any such papers then Gerry also very well knows that we will NEVER hear anything from Miscavige about this.
He sure does, and he is directling his allegations directly to Miscavige in this video
"we will NEVER hear anything from Miscavige..."
You may very well be correct, yet we live in hope. It would seem that you are one of those "the glass is half empty" kind of people. I remain optimistic that DM will one day answer some of Gerry's allegations. Omar Garrison also alleged that he saw these admissions.
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"Vallarr's got a new name."
Are you pointing at me? I have not the faintest idea who Vallarr may be. I point out factual discrepancies. You either can deal with that, or you can not...
The words of Gerry Armstrong:
"I am also posting the Admissions openly to confirm their authenticity.
The copy I received was not clear in places, and it is now gone."
Publishing some papers authenticiate them??? And then destroying the original copy he had received??
"Excuse me?? GERRY alleges that!! Not Omar Garrison. Please get your records straight! "
They both allegedly sighted these hand written notes when they were researching Hubbard's unpublished Biography. Unpublished because Omar and Gerry found out the truth about Hubbard and were then Fair Gamed.
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Gerry Armstrong versus Omar Garrison
"They both allegedly sighted these hand written notes when they were researching Hubbard's unpublished Biography. Unpublished because Omar and Gerry found out the truth about Hubbard and were then Fair Gamed."
What is your source for the stated position of said Omar Garrison? ALL we know about Omar is that what Gerry told about Omar in court. We have no public statement or paper of any kind from Omar himself. Once again, get your records straight!
Michel/young person who this he is wise & old....hang on cause no doubt someone, somewhere will be leaking the handwritten versions from LConHubbie soon. Folks are blowing this cult and taking things with them. Patience is a virtue finely honed as one gets older.
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"hang on cause no doubt someone, somewhere will be leaking the handwritten versions from LConHubbie soon. "
IF there was ANY evidence for the actual authenticy of these writings, Gerry or some other would come forward with that. But ALL we see are the allegings such as future predictions that someone will publish them.
Just watch Gerry's video, he ALLEGES, and REPEATS claims, he proves nothing. So ask Gerry for positive evidence!
Thank you Gerry and Caroline for continuing to educate everyone on the very real evils in scientology. I have the greatest respect and admiration for you both.
I want to see Excalibur please. have u heard the tape of David Mayo kicked out by Miscavige & labelling him an Sp in front of everyone? "I dont want to talk to u David u SP" my friend has it & can give it to u but if u have it can u upload it? Have u also read the books about Miscavige killing Hubbard in 83 & having the body frozen for 3 years whilst docs were forged over to DM? Is this accurate or did DM just capitalise on Hubbards death from being fed poison in his drugs on the private ranch
Ask and ye shall receive.:-) The totality of the trial transcripts, except for 3 days we're still missing, are on Gerry's site. Archives > Monthly Archives > May 1984. They are discussed by Gerry, his attorney Michael Flynn, Scientology's attorneys and Judge Breckenridge. So I'd suggest search for Affirmations, Admissions, Exhibit 4D through 4G and you should be able to find all the times these Hubbard writings are discussed or quoted.
Is this the great 'Excalibur' that was so secret? I don't think so; that talked about mob lynching etc. can you get hold of that one too please? I'd love to read that one & thanks very much for these. I can see now it takes away the god status of LRH & puts him more into a cross between Anthony Robbins goals & affirmations with Hitler's mien Kampf of fears & retributions. It's a lot more interesting read than his mainstream Cof$ books & better punctuated & makes more sense & makes him human.
I can see why Hubbard said sex was low on tonescale because he couldnt get it up & it justified his weaknesses. "To cure stomach ulcers I took testosterone & reduced my libido to nothing. While taking these drugs I fell in love with Sara. Helen two-timed me in New York 1941 also reduced my libido. Ive a very bad masturbatory history. I was taught at 11 & despite guilt, I persisted. At a physical exam at 13, the examiner called me because my testicles hung low & cautioned me about masturbating".
thanks Gerry, we're on this journey with you and will be there until the end! Your plethora of information will continue to break this CULT down! Truth always prevails!
In the "Admissions of L. Ron Hubbard, the book", He affirms for himself: "You have forgotten the case histories of Havelock Ellis. They did not surfeit you. You have forgotten them."
Ellis was wrote about homosexuality. He wrote a book, "Sexual Inversion" These might be "case histories" Hubbard was worried about enjoying. Many of his admissions desperately assert attraction to women. Thus Gore Vidal's anecdote about his homosexual encounter with Hubbard.
sorry Gerry i must be dense there's a lot of your introduction about these admissions but where are the admissions is it the ones ion arrows before your commentary again if so could it be clearer like in different color & can i see them in entirety without your opinions etc no offense mate All i saw was that Hubbard thought raping woken & virgins was ok & almost necessary like food. What else did he write?
This is Gerry's boss here. ;-) Thanks for asking. (And thanks everyone for your great comments and support.) There's a link to the Admissions documents in the video description above. Gerry's introduction is separate from the other three documents. Hope that's helpful.
Gerry I have looked at all your videos and speaking the simple truth is probably the most powerful thing in the world. Keep strong the word is out all over the world. That diseased toxic cult sucking the life out of wonderful people. Keep well and keep safe
Who taught this guy how to make videos? osama bin laden ?
anoni81b4u 1 week ago
The people who you put in front of the camera to criticize the "Church" of Scientology are just as important as the evidence/arguments you have against them. This is not the ideal person I would put on the front-lines.
The title is deceptive. I'm sure everyone clicking on this was expecting to actually have Miscaviage on here and some kind of dialog instead of some poorly-spoken guy kind of rambling on in front of a blanket.
I'm sorry; I'm 100% against Scientology, but this just isn't good..
shootbinary 8 months ago
Blanket background.
elsteviolee 11 months ago
Scientology resolves itself. It all works out to a simplicity. Get co-audited, do the work, clear the planet, go free. You are an aberrated moron that needs to be put back into the RPF.
seaorganization 1 year ago
L. Ron Hubbard admitted to a bunch of stuff? Hmmm. Wow. He was even stupider than I thought. I'm still grateful he did, though.
arayalrio 1 year ago
i think gerry must feel a little guilty he settled it for 800 thousand dollars
5551Dracula 1 year ago
There are many peoples across the field working on various ends. To make it short we all know the devious agenda of various beings who seek to stake their claim on this reality and the reality perceived by the human mind. Look at a persons face at a key moment in time and you see that thing, that creature which controls and meddles in the affairs of that sentient being and that creature is a mere extension of self.
GushaKajiri 1 year ago
David miscarriage
david miscreant
vancouverbluz 2 years ago 3
Miscavige is one load his mother should have swallowed.
79274333 2 years ago 12
..Nice blanket background.
anotalreadytakenname 2 years ago
R.I.P Gerry.
Gone but never forgotten man!
jamestherandomer 2 years ago
Sir, your so spooky .. you make Scientology seem normal
coopersnoop 2 years ago
@coopersnoop you+are = you're. Learn to spell.
rjs01007 1 year ago
@rjs01007 - Thanks dickhead, that really made a hell of a difference. Is dickhead one word or two?? Thought you might know.
coopersnoop 1 year ago
D M is a Sociopath. and he has proven that. and the Scientologist are waking up inside their Fair game church... Keep protesting they Freaks. STOP HURTING FAMILEYS SCIENTOLOGY. THE WORLD KNOWS WHO YOU ARE.
frogzzee 2 years ago 4
If your a scientolist your waisting your life. If your going out of your way to hate scientology then your waisitng your life. Leave it all alone and do something thats scary or makes you happy! One day you will wake up and think i should of done this or should of done that and it will be too late because in the end when your dead its all bollocks anyway. spliff time!
beazvids 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Religion & Scientology are tax-exempt; & like the fairy tales Mother Goose & Jack and the Bean stalk: Written to help the frightened little monkeys sleep at night
The belief in one fairy tale over another is completely arbitrary - And depends on which frightening story you heard as a child
In reality, people are simply afraid of the responsibility associated with having an "internal locus of control" - Thus, they invent saviors to hide behind when it gets dark out at night
sugarpuddin88 2 years ago 2
i love a courageous man such as he - i thank him
buckeyeshine 2 years ago
The amount of energy expended by cult agents on this comments page is certainly interesting.
11Jamie11 2 years ago 2
demanding that David Miscavige throws himself off a very tall building might be more appropriate.
it never ceases to amaze me just how gullible people are
joyandian 2 years ago 2
""For whose benefit is this video made? Does anyone really believe that DM will watch this video, let alone take heed?"" Oh he mioght well watch it, rolling around pissing hiself laughing while he imagines the 1 minutes worth of interest on scifientology bank accounts that replaced the 800 grand they paid out...
growguyuk 2 years ago
David Miscavige is the Anti-Christ
subculturestereo 2 years ago 22
Nope, can't be. He has no answers to real problems. The real Anti-Christ will be able to solve real problems.
He's just another king of the air.
silbitnuoc 2 years ago 2
@subculturestereo I say we kill Miscavage in a horrible and disgucsting way. Take a blowtorch to his balls. Slice him slowly right down the middle and turn him upside down.
murderousbastard83 1 year ago
@murderousbastard83 I find your suggestions of what to do to David Miscavige brutal, disgusting, horrific, barbaric, and absolutely vicious. Let me know if you need a hand because Miscavige is the biggest piece of shit on the surface of the planet.
mattezyk69 1 year ago 4
@mattezyk69 <3
XionComrade 1 year ago
Scientology says there are no absolutes, yet there own literature says Scientology gives you certainty......
If there are no absolutes how certain is the certainty they give you? By thier own omission the certainty of their truth is debatable!
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago 2
Scientology says there are no absolutes, yet there own literature says Scientology gives you certainty......
If there are no absolutes how certain is the certainty they give you? By thier own omission the certainty of their truth is debatable!
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago 2
Didn't I write this:
"Where you begin is to first establish what is the subject of Scientology and what is not the subject. "
Missed it?
By your own admission you wrote "I've seen, heard and read from both sides"
How come you haven't noted anything regarding the shadyness of Gerry's tales??
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
"How come you haven't noted anything regarding the shadyness of Gerry's tales??"
The man was just telling a story! It only had an edge of shadiness when you came along and started character assasinating the man.
Dead agenting much?
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
"The man was just telling a story! It only had an edge of shadiness when you came along and started character assasinating the man."
He was not only telling a story, far from it. He was asserting without substance. Gerry did it all to himself. Ask him what he did with the $800,000, but you will not.
"Dead agenting much? "
I only pointed out your uncriticalness in the matter.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Why did Scientology pay a settlement of $800,000 if Gerry Anderson is a liar (as wiseoldgoat has asserted)?
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago 3
"Why did Scientology pay a settlement of $800,000 if Gerry Anderson is a liar (as wiseoldgoat has asserted)? "
Find out. It however doesn't imply any authenticity of the Affrimations. You are also overlooking that ther were 21 boxes of materials that 'honest' Gerry had taken.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
If that's true I'm even more confused as to why they would settle with someone who STOLE from them.
I never said Gerry was honest or dishonest, you're assuming again wiseoldgoat (what did I say about that?).
The further I go into this conversation though leads me to believe there's something to Gerry's words if they're in need of such defensive handling!
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
"If that's true I'm even more confused as to why they would settle with someone who STOLE from them."
* * Then look into that. You are missing data...!
"I never said Gerry was honest or dishonest, you're assuming again wiseoldgoat (what did I say about that?)."
** Never implied or said that.
"The further I go into this conversation though leads me to believe there's something to Gerry's words if they're in need of such defensive handling!"
** There never was anything ... thus people make it up
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Gerry do you think David Miscavige would've burned all these admission papers by now, or has 'source' still got him by the balls from beyond the grave?
Gerry Armstrong ROCKS!
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
Sorry, Gerry Armstrong is unreliable and in fact a liar. He rocks may be, but on the wrong side of the fence.
Ask him for a single piece of evidence for any authenticity of the Affirmations. Gerry claims and that is ALL he has ever done since 1984.
Ask him why he destroyed the copy he had received anonymously.
Ask him why he refuses to explain himself and answer to questions.
Ask him what he did with the $800,000 he received in his settlement agreement.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Comment removed
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
1. Didn't know that he had recieved an anonymous copy
2. He hasn't refused to answer or avoid any pressing questions to my knowledge; quite the opposite
3. Why did Scientology pay this 'liar' out if what he's saying is untrue?
I've seen, heard and read from both sides, and my conclusions don't rest on these Affirmations, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did exist!
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
Response to Speaker4Truth :
#1: Most certainly he did.
#2: Gerry asserts he does not explain or substantiate with proper verification.
#3: So find out before you adjudicate.
Apparently you did not hear and read enough from these both sides. If yur adjudication is not based on the Affirmation then on what is it?
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
1. Righto, what's your point?
2. "Gerry asserts he does not explain or substantiate with proper verification." So if Gerry ALLEGEDLY is telling us he is just all talk, why do we need you to tell us he's a bullshit artist?
3. Find out what? If the admissions are just a tale of someones rambles (as you've asserted) what's there to find out?
I spent 8-9months in Scientology for some insight relating to my thesis.
Where do I begin with Co$'s shady, criminal and unethical behaviour?
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago 2
Response to Speaker4Truth:
#1. It means he willingly discarded of the best evidence to authentification he could ever acquire, but he destroys it?
#2. Because you made an assumption without verifying properly his cliams.
#3. The burden of evidence is unto Gerry, not me. If he ain't got anything, then should I prove he ain't got anything??
Well, I have 27 years.
Where you begin is to first establish what is the subject of Scientology and what is not the subject.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
1. I'll agree with you that what you're saying doesn't make much sense
2. An assumption? All I stated was a hypothetical wiseoldgoat, when you assume you make an 'ass' out of yo'u' and 'me' (ever heard that one?)
3. "The burden of evidence is unto Gerry," yeah to prove it right. The burden of evidence, if you wish for it to be proven wrong, is with you. "If he ain't got anything, then should I prove he ain't got anything??" ....ah yeah!!
Ever heard the fable the Emperor's New Clothes?
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
To Speaker4Truth:
You appear prejudiced as you are unable to criticize Gerry Armstrong. Useless to discuss these matters with you.
Your response to #3 in fact is absurd.
#1. Anyone can state these things that Gerry asserts ("I destroyed the copies, and I now telly you about that, but they are authentic nonetheless"). Don't you get it? If he ever had such copies for real, he would NEVER destroy them. But his tale make for a great story.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
I 'appear prejudiced' because I haven't criticized Gerry..... so I need to criticize the man to not be prejudiced (that makes sense).
"Your response to #3 in fact is absurd."
Sorry you feel that way, but both you and Gerry are making claims.
If you can show me where Gerry says "I destroyed the copies, and I now telly you about that, but they are authentic nonetheless" then I could agree with you, but from the response here you are acting very defensively (not very credible behaviour).
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
Comment removed
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What didn't you get about my response on #3?
If I asserted the world was flat you would need to offer some evidence to show why it isn't wiseoldgoat.
Humans are funny like that, we only accept something to the contrary until some form of proof is given to substantiate otherwise!
Two claims don't make a fact. And as for the Emperor's New clothes would you like me to explain the moral from that story or do you think you can see how it applies here?
Speaker4Truth 2 years ago
L ron was into little boys...his own son said it. don't blame slappy got the info from the kids mouth. keep it up gerry watch them shake behind thier masks of false dominance.
anonnon45 2 years ago 2
For whose benefit is this video made? Does anyone really believe that DM will watch this video, let alone take heed?
whiff1962 2 years ago
Whoa, I was in Amway in the early 80's. I agree there are cult-like aspects, but real goods are bought and sold and nooooobody claimed to cure radiation burns.You can have a productive home business with Amway without going into the Kult nonsense.
stayjit1 2 years ago
Amway use several forms of mind-control, very cult like. Many a family / friendship has been destroyed by Amway. They use mind-control techniques, especially when they are signing you up or you attend one of their weekly/monthly group meetings.
I agree, someone with a strong mind & moral compass can succeed in Amway without being swallowed up, unfortunately those people are a small minority. The majority of Amway recruits take the bait, in time replace their own family with the "Amway family".
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
Hey man we feel your pain and will continue to fight until this monster is over. I give you lots of respect because you fought these people even when they were at their strongest. Thank you.
AlmostShaoKahn 2 years ago
Gerry, could you tell us in detail what is contained in L.R.H. 's admissions ?
HoneyCallMeAnonymous 2 years ago
i just found your link...
HoneyCallMeAnonymous 2 years ago
It's Gerry's affirmations, not LRH's. Gerry is unable to substantiate any authenticy of these papers. he even destroyed the copies he received. He ain't got nothing. Ask him for evidence of authenticy. ASK him...
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Gerry looks just like the character Roman Grant (Harry Dean Stanton) form the show Big Love.
JohnDoe280 2 years ago
He will be
LronFAIL 2 years ago
I'm Glad the oldgoat brought up slavery.
Help end slavery in America!
What, you thought slavery was abolished in America in 1865? That is what I thought also. It would seem that a fellow by the name of David Miscavige has hundreds of slaves at his property in California. He beats them regularly and if they try to escape they are hunted down and thrown into a concentration camp called the RPF, unable to see their loved ones for years on end.
It's 2009, help end slavery once and for all.
SlappyThePenguin 3 years ago
It that be true, then why is Miscavige not effectively brought to justice?
Now what is allowed within the subject of Scientology and what not? What is Scientology? Any which way you need to establish what is the subject, the rules of the game, and what is people. Let not try anyone to beat me, there will be consequences.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Sillyoldgoat,
Real tough guy when Miscavige isn't watching. Go up to David Miscavige and disagree with him. When he tells you to STFU, disagree with him again, then wait for the bitch slap. As for the consequences of you defending yourself against DM, well, lets just say all witnesses will say you threw the first punch.
"then why is Miscavige not effectively brought to justice?"
As stated before, all witnesses are Sea Org and will say what ever he wants them to say, the same as all cults.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
"Sillyoldgoat"
Offensive.
"Real tough guy when Miscavige isn't watching. "
How would you know?
"As stated before, all witnesses are Sea Org and will say what ever he wants them to say, the same as all cults."
Ah, but it's poeple that create a cult, I am not one of these. Get my drift?
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
I know you're not a creator of the cult, you're a follower. I get your drift.
"Let not try anyone to beat me, there will be consequences."
What consequences would DM suffer if he was to beat you?
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
"I know you're not a creator of the cult, you're a follower. I get your drift."
Apparently you don't get it. It's people within an organization that create or make up a cult, which is the follower. I never was and never will be. Think!
""Let not try anyone to beat me, there will be consequences."
What consequences would DM suffer if he was to beat you? "
Any person who does or attempts would suffer if ithey will do so. Figure it out.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
"Any person who does or attempts would suffer if they will do so. Figure it out."
You're asking me to figure out your intentions, when there are many possibilities, you could;
cry like a baby while bleeding
run like a coward
call the cops
fight back (then get charged with assault)
take the beating and ask for another(sado bondage thing)
the list goes on and on, or you could just say what you would do if Miscavige used you as a punching bag like he does to so many others within the cult.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
Well Slappy if you would know about the tonescale you might be able to evaluate properly which it is.
It is only a few that say that Miscavige uses people a a 'punching bag', and these few say that there are many. Proper presentation please.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
The tone scale has no relevance in society outside of the cult of scientology.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
And your blind opinion has no relevance either in or outside of anything...
If you have no understanding about these matters, then why talk about it.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
My "opinion" is not blind. My studies of cults & how they operate outside of normal society is extremely in depth. Your cult speak is no different to the Moonies, children of God, Hare Krishnas, Landmark, The Peoples Temple, Rajneesh Movement (Orange People)Reiki, Amway etc, the list goes on & on. Your statement on me having no understanding of these matters, couldn't be further from the truth. "Why talk about it?" So others might avoid the mind control techniques that sucked you in to the cult.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
SlappyThePenguin
I simply question Gerry Armstrong's credibility based on the absence of proper substance for his claims in particulary the Affirmations he released in 2000. Then I say some things in favour of the subject of Scientolgy. And voilá I am immediately deemed a cultmember. After which more generalizations follow from your opinion of it all. Who is a cultmember here? It is the behaviour and approach that deems one to be one!!! Well Slappy, you accused yourself of that now.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
You speak as if the "tone scale" has real meaning in society outside of the cult, when it has not.
You may not be a member of this dangerous cult, but you sure as hell act as though you are. The mind-control techniques employed by the cult of scientology are deplorable, there is absolutely no informed consent for use of hypnosis and the cult is held accountable to no-one but the cult itself.
How do you feel about the mind-control aspects of Hubbard's "religion"?
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
Well Slappy, it only means that you have no knowledge about that tonescale. It is as real as anything.
The subject of Scientology does not, I repeat, does not, advocate mind-control techniques. In the subject is seriously opposed to any such.
You make persistent claims but do not, I repeat, do not substantiate them with anything other than your opinion. And a prejudiced one as such. Get real...
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Read about "Increased arousal hypnosis". This form of hypnosis is being employed when auditing is practiced. In addition because of the long time periods that auditing takes place, the person being audited goes into a natural hypnosis associated with the body's ultradian rhythm.
If pointing out the bad an organization is doing is prejudice to you, then you don't understand the meaning of the word. My dislike for the cult is very reasonable.
Gays = 1.1 on the tone scale, now that is prejudice.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
"Increased Arousal hypnosis" is also known as "High-Arousal technique" or "High-Arousal Hypnosis"
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
You are a theorizer. You show nothing that displays your understandng of the subject. Where is your proper and supported evaluation.
An organization is only bad if particular wrongs can be pointed out in its writings. Then it will be people that turn it bad. It's people that make a cult, never an organization.
Again you show no understanding of the tonescale. You discuss a book of +500 pages and all you say is 'Gays = 1.1', now that is your prejudice. Where is your study?
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
"'Gays = 1.1', now that is your prejudice"
It would seem that you don't have a problem with pigeon-holing a person because of his or her sexuality, much the same as Hubbard. So, do you agree with Hubbard's solution for homosexuals if Scientology failed to "cure" them? Don't you feel that "disposing" of them is a little over the top?
Gays = 1.1, yes that is prejudice and it was stated quite clearly by Hubbard, the source and founder of the organization, it is in the writings.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
You again talk with NO understanding about these matters. What solution? Disposing of them? What the heck are you talking about!
You are not specific and provide for no exact sources. Nice going...
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Solution 1 - Cure Homosexuality;
In Hubbard's 1951 book Handbook for Preclears, he set out instructions for Dianeticists to "cure" homosexuality. After claiming that the cause of homosexuality was a fixation on a dominant parent of the opposite sex, he advised: "Break this life continuum concept by running sympathy and grief for the dominant parent and then run off the desires to be an effect and their failures and the homosexual is rehabilitated."
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
Solution 2 - dispose off Homosexuals;
Hubbard urged society to tackle the issue of sexual perversion (including homosexuality), calling it "of vital importance, if one wishes to stop immorality, and the abuse of children." In Science of Survival, he called for drastic action to be taken against sexual perverts, whom he rated as "1.1 individuals"
cont....
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
....cont
"Such people should be taken from the society as rapidly as possible and uniformly institutionalized; for here is the level of the contagion of immorality, and the destruction of ethics; here is the fodder which secret police organizations use for their filthy operations."
cont....
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
...cont
"One of the most effective measures of security that a nation threatened by war could take would be rounding up and placing in a cantonment, away from society, any 1.1 individual who might be connected with government, the military, or essential industry; since here are people who, regardless of any record of their family's loyalty, are potential traitors, the very mode of operation of their insanity being betrayal."
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
....cont
In this level is the slime of society, the sex criminals, the political subversives, the people whose apparently rational activities are yet but the devious writhings of secret hate."
End.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
Science of Survival -
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Sale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by unentrubulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
To me that sounds like an evaluation, but here you list 2 alternate option. Will I notice that you entirely focused on just one of them in your previous communications!
Either way what does dispose mean in the context as found in the book?
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
"but here you list 2 alternate option...... you entirely focused on just one of them in your previous communications!"
Wrong, my previous comments list both options;
"Do you agree with Hubbard's solution for homosexuals if Scientology failed to "cure" them? Don't you feel that "disposing" of them is over the top?"
Seeing as there is no "cure" for homosexuality, nor is there any need for one, Hubbard's solution is to lock them away until they stop being homosexual. That is the context.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
You base your evaluation entirely on assuming certain things to be true or not true, and thus are prejudice. You also completely missed out on what the book is about, what its outset is, and how to relate the information.
You are also impractical. Homosexuals do not produce offspring, nor can they produce that.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
You seem to be finding it hard to get your head around the fact that Hubbard was a serious homophobe and that his solution to any homosexual who didn't agree to stop being gay was to lock them away, removing their right to live in society. People who are infertile do not produce offspring, most women over the age of 50 can no loger produce offspring. What's your point? If you can't produce offspring you are of no value? More prejudices coming to the surface.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
You have 'personal' issues with this and so you can not be objective nor rational concerning it. You condamn a person and a book because of one little thing contained within it. Where is your proper evaluation concerning him being a 'serious homophobe'?
You are also marvelously missing the point about my reference to offspring. Your comments are highly inadequate and in fact irrational.
You never even read the book. We know the deal here with you...
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
You focus on homosexuals. Why?
Why has the book been written? What is its outset? What does it say about how to take the information contained within it?
You continue to dance around the key questions that have been forwarded to you.
The matter remians the same. You focus on one little thing that you interpret and then find wrong with. And that you accordingly use to relentlessly attack a book and a person.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Disposing of people who have different lifestyles to ones self is very wrong. You say it is a little thing, but I'm pretty sure that the general public sees it another way.
"You focus on homosexuals. Why?"
The question isn't why I focused on homosexuals, the real question is why did Hubbard focus on Homosexuals.
"Why has the book been written?" For Ron to make money and further control people.
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
Excuse me? A 500 page book mentions homosexuals at some place. And you say Hubbard focuses on homosexuals? Are you quite sane? 1.1 is about a lot more than what you picked, and you picked homosexuals.
It's funny because you don't know the subject, and thus you make silly responses. Scientology was never about money. See HCO PL 23 Sept 64, show us how much you know!
If the subject was about controlling people it would not expose techniques that enslave man.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Hey, if your uncomfortable about discussing Hubbard's homophobia, I totally understand. But, you did ask for specifics regarding Ron's prejudices and I was only accommodating.
It must have really pissed him off that his son Quinten was a homosexual. I wonder if Hubbard's hatred of homosexuals played a part in Quinten's suicide. What do you think? I wonder why Ron couldn't cure his own son's homosexuality with the techniques he outlined in his "handbook for Preclears".
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
You are avoiding to explain yourself and conveniently ignore the queries forwarded to you. (see previous my responses) You have not given any specifics.
It also appears that you just adopt anything that some will tell you if it fits your prejudices and preconceived state of mind.
His name was Quentin. That he would have been homosexual is quite uncomfirmed. Also it is much more plausible that he was murdered. Damned! Check out the facts and the available sources on these matters!!
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
Hey, I'll say it agiain. If it's too dificult for you to discuss Hubbard's homophobia, that's fine, I'll drop it. Hell, I can fully understand how this would be disturbing for you to confront the fact that the leader of your cult was a bigoted homophobe.
As for Quentin not being gay....um ok then, sure.
The police report stated suicide. I have heard theories that he may have been killed but that was from people who wear tin foil hats. Do you have anything to back up your theory of murder?
SlappyThePenguin 2 years ago
Well Slappy, you are like Gerry Armstrong. You tell stories but don't do the research or give it proper substance. Your evaluation of, and your subsequent conclusion of L. Ron Hubbard suffering from homophobia is absurd and in fact insane. All you offer is 1.1 = homosexual something. So, are you actually quite sane yourself??
Yeah, the police report said suicide, great ain't it. You forgot the episode that no evidence was secured at the scene. There are many indicators that point at a coverup.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
LULZ.. dude you suck at life.. stfu and gtfo of the cult.. no one cares what you have to say indoctrinated retard.. this is me being nice to a person like you..
thelonius2000 2 years ago
People that lack proper answers or supported counter arguments are always offensive, and are talking loud and saying nothing...
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
fine BLEETER.... explain why your cult carried out "Project Normandy?" Why does a supposed "Church" need to come up with militarily named "PROJECTS" to systematically take over towns by "infiltrating there media and city hall"? BY "digging up dirt on all public officials"?
Explain goat... I am very interested to see how you spin this...
thelonius2000 2 years ago
A sensible straightforwarded person would not allow him or herself to be fed with just bits and pieces of information and simply adopt the adherent interpretation. I guess that if you wish to know you need to get active. Your misconceptions however are the usual ones.
You bought propaganda.
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
The propaganda is what you've eaten son.. it's sad.. NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO A CO$ ORG FOR ANSWERS!!!!
You should be able to fully describe your fucked up religion here.. the fact that you hide it like a coward proves it's a devious deceptive shit hole of a belief system.. l8.. you're pitied by all...
thelonius2000 2 years ago
"The propaganda is what you've eaten son.. it's sad.. NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO A CO$ ORG FOR ANSWERS!!!!"
This is contradictive in itself from your part, but you don't see that do you...
the coward is the one that does not respond to pertinent questions, but instead starts to demand answers about other issues. Here it is about Gerry's Affirmations. This deems you being a twister...
wiseoldgoat 2 years ago
"Scientology was never about money."
Thanks for the good LOL. Laughter is the best medicine!
11Jamie11 2 years ago 2
It's no wonder Scientology wants to silence you, Gerry. Thanks for your courage and wisdom.
Mark
markowenplummer 3 years ago 14
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is no need to silence Gerry. The more he says the more it becomes clear that he has little to say and no proper evidence to back up his assertions with. He asserts and that is basically all he does on this video. Let him explain why there is nothing found in the published writings of L. Ron Hubbard concerning using affirmations. The subject of Scientology is completely at odds with that. Then he may explain why the subject presents and educates people to NOT become slave.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Hey Gerry! Looks like I might finally meet you at the next protest. If Richard allows me that is. :)
sKepptiksowat 3 years ago 4
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sKepptiksowat 3 years ago
When David Miscavige recounts his rise to power in the Church of Scientology - a journey that began when he quit high school at age 16 - it is mostly a story of war. War against renegade Scientologists. War against Scientology's critics. War against its one-time archenemy, the IRS. Miscavige's friends say he is "intense" and "insistent" and "doesn't suffer fools lightly." Scientology's critics say he is a bully.
jnycnuk 3 years ago 5
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exfalsoquodlibet 3 years ago
To answer the billy goats gruff: I believe Gerry is being very clever here in addressing this to a 1st & 3rd person perspective. Yes he knows DM wont voluntarily release the papers because we all know DM's the devil, but he may have to show something if people ask, as Gerry later requests. Thus DM has to come up with something! Either he denies any admissions, which would be disastrous or he will white out salient bits like the USA Govt did with Roswell 47 from the freedom of info act in court.
chockmah67 3 years ago 3
chockmah67' gruff:
Indeed Gerry is very clever, we all know that. If he just alleges he does not have to prove anything (he thinks). At least it will be hard to disprove anything if he only alleges.
I don't support your idea that Miscavige has to explain anything. Gerry does not have anything. He is also wanted by US law. Let Gerry explain why he physically destroyed the copies he claims that he had received! The BEST evidence he could EVER have, and he destroys that?
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Dude, he doesn't have the definite proof, DM has.
If the Affirmations are indeed real, why shouldn't he allege it, even though he hasn't the definite proof?
Everyone would do this. You are presuming from the start, that Gerry is a liar. But you have no evidence for this either.
exfalsoquodlibet 3 years ago 4
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I don't need to have evidence for anything that as the burden of proof is unto Gerry. I only have to point out inconsistencies. And there are many.
But be my guest and let him explain what he did with the $800,000 he received in his settlement. Today he calls himself penniless and bankrupt. All makes sense doesn't it.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
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exfalsoquodlibet 3 years ago
There is no burden of proof here, because we are not in court.
exfalsoquodlibet 3 years ago 3
Your hero Saint Gerry makes claims and persistent accusations. If he does so, then there is a burden of proof.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Heh.
wiseoldgoat: "I don't need to have evidence for anything."
Can we happily quote you in the future?
V17kZJ 3 years ago 4
lol, pwned! ^^
exfalsoquodlibet 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Well V17kZJ, we know all that already. It suffices that guru Gerry asserts something and you instantly adopt that as scripture (or sorts).
I state that you can not criticize him.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
I critize him all the time. He enters to many marathons and his shoes are not practical. Also, he is too nice.
He once asserted that I was a friend. I can't accept that.
Your argument has been rendered null and void.
moronymous 3 years ago 3
I'd like to know how to get $800000 in a settlement too I know friends who only got 4 figures refunds back not 6. However Wollersheim beats them all with a staggering 9 million settlement! hang on is that right? how does the court decide these figures? obviously levels of post traumatic distress etc. Anyway maybe Gerry used the $ to improve Scientology to finish the bridge properly or something worthwhile. Can someone put Excalibur in my inbox as I cant find any condensed version in Gerry's site
chockmah67 3 years ago
what's 800 000 bucks? that can be pissed away in a decade easily or less
ThePeacefulAtheist 2 years ago
To "Wiseoldgoat":
Clearwater Sun, 16 May 1984, "Witness: Hubbard used black magic":
Scientology lawyer: "They are completely out of context."
6 Dec 1986, "Church of Scientology of California v. Gerald Armstrong: Mutual release of all claims and settlement agreement":
"... to be returned to the [CSI] ... Plaintiff agrees to return the following: ... (b) All originals and copies of documents commonly known as the "Affirmations" written by L. Ron Hubbard ... [Signed Heber C. Jentzsch]
V17kZJ 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"... to be returned to the [CSI] ... Plaintiff agrees to return the following: ... (b) All originals and copies of documents commonly known as the "Affirmations" written by L. Ron Hubbard ... [Signed Heber C. Jentzsch]
The main argument being: The Affirmations have never been authenticiated in court by any proper means.
There were 21 boxes, the church simply wanted everything back that Gerry supposedly had taken. It was unknown what exactly all these boxes contained.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
You are speculating about the Church of Scientology 'mindset,' speculating that the Church of Scientology "just wanted everything back ..." How would you know what the Church wanted? Were you there during the settlement talks?
This 'unspeculated' fact remains: The Church signed the document asking for the return of the "'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard." This particular passage in the agreement doesn't fit "simply wanted everything back."
V17kZJ 3 years ago 3
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To V17kZJ
Will you please think for a minute! I propose the most plausible scenario. Or are you implying that others besides Gerry knew what all was in these boxes. Heber jentzsch didn't know, the Scientology lawyers didn't know.
Apparently also you are not familiar with the whole 'settlement document'. It is a long list. It fits in very nicely indeed.
So you question the things I say, are you able to question Gerry ?
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
"Heber jentzsch didn't know, the Scientology lawyers didn't know."
How would you know what they did or they didn't know?
Again: The Church of Scientology International (CSI) signed the document which spells out "'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard." I repeat: "written by L. Ron Hubbard." Again: "written by L. Ron Hubbard." Add to this that the lawyer implicitly admitted with his "out of context."
Your only argument are speculations about what Heber C. Jentzch or CSI did or did not know.
V17kZJ 3 years ago 5
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To V17kZJ:
Sorry, this is infantile. It can easily mean that it is made sure that those papers that were discussed very briefly in court would be included, *whatever* they were! Get familiar with court/lawyerspeak and procedures.
You don't get that this is no evidence for authenticity. When we are at it. Why did Gerry's lawyer not insist to authenticify them with a handwriting analysis or sorts?
I take it then that you can not put any criticism at the address of Gerry Armstrong, our all hero!
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Gerry provides plenty. Gerry even makes available for all the see and judge for themselves Church of Scientology's own material on Gerry.
Church of Scientology provided *nothing,* and actually worked toward providing as little as it could. Church of Scientology requested the "Affirmations" sealed, and as well, never insisted to authenticate these in order to disprove them. The Church of Scientology requested and signed for the "'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard" to be returned in 1986.
V17kZJ 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I have addressed this matter already earlier to you. I even notified about why Gerry's lawyer did not attempt to authenticiate them.
The Church wanted *everything* sealed.
What you know is what Gerry tells you, and you can not criticize him.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
If the Affirmations wouldn't be real and in Hubbard's own handwriting, then the CoS would with 100 % certainty said so after they got them back. They would have seen that they weren't written by Hubbard himself and would then have tried to Dead Agent Gerry with that.
exfalsoquodlibet 3 years ago 4
["Vallarr's got a new name."
Are you pointing at me? I have not the faintest idea who Vallarr may be. I point out factual discrepancies. You either can deal with that, or you can not...
The words of Gerry Armstrong:
"I am also posting the Admissions openly to confirm their authenticity.
The copy I received was not clear in places, and it is now gone."
Publishing some papers authenticiate them??? And then destroying the original copy he had received?? ]
Caps lock is gone? :D
DarthX3nu 3 years ago 2
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exfalsoquodlibet 3 years ago
Can the next viewers search "scientology" and see if this video shows up in the results. It is not for me. I might need a fitting for a tinfoil hat if I am wrong.
moronymous 3 years ago
Not for me either. Only came up if I type $cientology & David Miscavige, or $cientology & Gerry Armstrong.
Tags. Another little YT mystery...
anonymom17 3 years ago
How do we know if these affirmations would be authentic? I am unable to find any evidence whatsoever for that claim. The supposed original handwritten version is simply not available. And we have no wittnesses that can confirm that what Gerry says or that the handwritten version would be for real. Therefore the only thing we can be sure about is that Gerry is not educating, he is telling stories. I amazed by the lack of demand for verification from those that posted so far!
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Wiseoldgoat,
"I amazed by the lack of demand for verification from those that posted so far! "
If you look at the title Gerry is actually talking to David Miscavige, he is asking him to release the handwritten affirmations and to make them available to the public. Gerry states quite clearly that the "proof" is in the hands of David Miscavige. Why would we ask him for the proof when he has already told us where the proof is?
SlappyThePenguin 3 years ago 8
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"Gerry states quite clearly that the "proof" is in the hands of David Miscavige. Why would we ask him for the proof when he has already told us where the proof is?"
Anyone can assert something like that. The burden of proof is unto Gerry Armstrong as he makes the claims. So far he ain't got nothing to show.
Will I also remind that the same Gerry claims to have had handwritten copies, but DESTROYED them. Also something that ANYONE can allege, convenient ain't it. Ask Gerry for positive PROOF.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
wiseoldgoat,
I can only say it again. Gerry is talking to David Miscavige, not you and not me. He is talking directly to the person he says has the hand written notes, he is asking Miscavige to release the notes as part of the tech and rightly so. Now unless you or anyone else here is David Miscavige, we should all just STFU and wait for Davey boy to respond......... it may take a while though.
SlappyThePenguin 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"Gerry is talking to David Miscavige, not you and not me. He is talking directly to the person he says has the hand written notes, he is asking Miscavige to release the notes as part of the tech and rightly so."
Sorry, but are you infantile or something? Gerry ALLEGES, that is ALL he does. He is distracting the attention to someone else. If Miscavige would have any such papers then Gerry also very well knows that we will NEVER hear anything from Miscavige about this.
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
"are you infantile......"
Nasty old goat
"Gerry ALLEGES, that is ALL he does"
He sure does, and he is directling his allegations directly to Miscavige in this video
"we will NEVER hear anything from Miscavige..."
You may very well be correct, yet we live in hope. It would seem that you are one of those "the glass is half empty" kind of people. I remain optimistic that DM will one day answer some of Gerry's allegations. Omar Garrison also alleged that he saw these admissions.
SlappyThePenguin 3 years ago 3
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"He sure does, and he is directling his allegations directly to Miscavige in this video"
Gerry is distracting... The burden of proof is HIS, and ONLY his!
"I remain optimistic that DM will one day answer some of Gerry's allegations. "
Then hope is ALL you got. Miscavige however NEVER will do so!
"Omar Garrison also alleged that he saw these admissions. "
Excuse me?? GERRY alleges that!! Not Omar Garrison. Please get your records straight!
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Oh look - Vallarr's got a new name. Same old techniques I notice - insult, split hairs, CAPS LOCK.
I expect even if the handwritten originals are made public Failarr would claim that they were fakes.
Cloggerzzz 3 years ago 4
Hi Cloggerzz,
I don't know if it's Vallarrr, but this Scientologist sure as hell did the same TRs.
SlappyThePenguin 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"Vallarr's got a new name."
Are you pointing at me? I have not the faintest idea who Vallarr may be. I point out factual discrepancies. You either can deal with that, or you can not...
The words of Gerry Armstrong:
"I am also posting the Admissions openly to confirm their authenticity.
The copy I received was not clear in places, and it is now gone."
Publishing some papers authenticiate them??? And then destroying the original copy he had received??
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
"Excuse me?? GERRY alleges that!! Not Omar Garrison. Please get your records straight! "
They both allegedly sighted these hand written notes when they were researching Hubbard's unpublished Biography. Unpublished because Omar and Gerry found out the truth about Hubbard and were then Fair Gamed.
SlappyThePenguin 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Gerry Armstrong versus Omar Garrison
"They both allegedly sighted these hand written notes when they were researching Hubbard's unpublished Biography. Unpublished because Omar and Gerry found out the truth about Hubbard and were then Fair Gamed."
What is your source for the stated position of said Omar Garrison? ALL we know about Omar is that what Gerry told about Omar in court. We have no public statement or paper of any kind from Omar himself. Once again, get your records straight!
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Michel/young person who this he is wise & old....hang on cause no doubt someone, somewhere will be leaking the handwritten versions from LConHubbie soon. Folks are blowing this cult and taking things with them. Patience is a virtue finely honed as one gets older.
anonymom17 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"hang on cause no doubt someone, somewhere will be leaking the handwritten versions from LConHubbie soon. "
IF there was ANY evidence for the actual authenticy of these writings, Gerry or some other would come forward with that. But ALL we see are the allegings such as future predictions that someone will publish them.
Just watch Gerry's video, he ALLEGES, and REPEATS claims, he proves nothing. So ask Gerry for positive evidence!
wiseoldgoat 3 years ago
Thank you Gerry and Caroline for continuing to educate everyone on the very real evils in scientology. I have the greatest respect and admiration for you both.
anjullyn 3 years ago 5
I want to see Excalibur please. have u heard the tape of David Mayo kicked out by Miscavige & labelling him an Sp in front of everyone? "I dont want to talk to u David u SP" my friend has it & can give it to u but if u have it can u upload it? Have u also read the books about Miscavige killing Hubbard in 83 & having the body frozen for 3 years whilst docs were forged over to DM? Is this accurate or did DM just capitalise on Hubbards death from being fed poison in his drugs on the private ranch
chockmah67 3 years ago 4
There are a few mentions of Excalibur in the Armstrong 1 trial. Try a search on Gerry's Legal Archive from here: /50k/legal/a1/
C
gerryarmstrong 3 years ago
thanks Gerry :)
hunkydoris 3 years ago 4
Gerry, are you allowed to publish the transcript of the trial - the bits in which you read the admissions into evidence?
Plupsyeah 3 years ago 2
Ask and ye shall receive.:-) The totality of the trial transcripts, except for 3 days we're still missing, are on Gerry's site. Archives > Monthly Archives > May 1984. They are discussed by Gerry, his attorney Michael Flynn, Scientology's attorneys and Judge Breckenridge. So I'd suggest search for Affirmations, Admissions, Exhibit 4D through 4G and you should be able to find all the times these Hubbard writings are discussed or quoted.
C
gerryarmstrong 3 years ago
Oh, excellent. Thanks.
Plupsyeah 3 years ago 3
I find it a privilege to take part of GA`s considerations and thoughts
concerning Admissions and his part in making them known to the public.
A moralizing lesson, as well as an oustanding example to us all of
high standard,personal bravery, setting aside your own security and
peace of mind for the greater good!
My only hope is, if I ever find myself in a similar position in life
as Gerry was at the time, to be equally strong and upright as Gerry!
Thaofus 3 years ago 5
Gerry is big medicine folks. Thank you for sharing this with the world.
someguynameddavid 3 years ago 6
Is this the great 'Excalibur' that was so secret? I don't think so; that talked about mob lynching etc. can you get hold of that one too please? I'd love to read that one & thanks very much for these. I can see now it takes away the god status of LRH & puts him more into a cross between Anthony Robbins goals & affirmations with Hitler's mien Kampf of fears & retributions. It's a lot more interesting read than his mainstream Cof$ books & better punctuated & makes more sense & makes him human.
chockmah67 3 years ago 5
Sorry Chockmah, but I suspect the punctuation was Gerry's and/or Caroline's. :)
Plupsyeah 3 years ago 3
I can see why Hubbard said sex was low on tonescale because he couldnt get it up & it justified his weaknesses. "To cure stomach ulcers I took testosterone & reduced my libido to nothing. While taking these drugs I fell in love with Sara. Helen two-timed me in New York 1941 also reduced my libido. Ive a very bad masturbatory history. I was taught at 11 & despite guilt, I persisted. At a physical exam at 13, the examiner called me because my testicles hung low & cautioned me about masturbating".
chockmah67 3 years ago 4
Download and mirror time!
parrotnutz 3 years ago 7
GOLD GERRY! GOLD!
Avery1now 3 years ago 8
thanks Gerry, we're on this journey with you and will be there until the end! Your plethora of information will continue to break this CULT down! Truth always prevails!
MARYBLEUZ 3 years ago 8
In the "Admissions of L. Ron Hubbard, the book", He affirms for himself: "You have forgotten the case histories of Havelock Ellis. They did not surfeit you. You have forgotten them."
Ellis was wrote about homosexuality. He wrote a book, "Sexual Inversion" These might be "case histories" Hubbard was worried about enjoying. Many of his admissions desperately assert attraction to women. Thus Gore Vidal's anecdote about his homosexual encounter with Hubbard.
As always, YOU ARE THE MAN! Thanks.
draemr 3 years ago 7
Thanks Gerry for speaking out again! So good to hear the truth.
mollie2810 3 years ago 9
sorry Gerry i must be dense there's a lot of your introduction about these admissions but where are the admissions is it the ones ion arrows before your commentary again if so could it be clearer like in different color & can i see them in entirety without your opinions etc no offense mate All i saw was that Hubbard thought raping woken & virgins was ok & almost necessary like food. What else did he write?
chockmah67 3 years ago
Hi chockmah67,
This is Gerry's boss here. ;-) Thanks for asking. (And thanks everyone for your great comments and support.) There's a link to the Admissions documents in the video description above. Gerry's introduction is separate from the other three documents. Hope that's helpful.
C
gerryarmstrong 3 years ago
Gerry I have looked at all your videos and speaking the simple truth is probably the most powerful thing in the world. Keep strong the word is out all over the world. That diseased toxic cult sucking the life out of wonderful people. Keep well and keep safe
jaykaysok 3 years ago 8