ive been going on and off for years and actually enjoy the social pariah in the room status i have aquired.someone who i knew when i first went in and is now ten years sober asked me quite seriously why i wasnt dead yet or mad?i never bothered returning the question as i could clearly see she was alive thanks to her personal god and even more clearly mad.why do aa s always state that theyve never seen anyone return to the rooms and say its better out there? it would be one nasty cunt that did!
@0flakey1 I thought I enjoyed the status, as well, but it turns out that after I left, it was all just a big waste of my time. Trying to convince disturbed people of the insanity of their belief system is an endless exercise in futility. People who do find it to be better out here (probably the overwhelming majority of ex-attendees) are unmoved to return to the asylum to report findings. What would be the point? Mike BD
A few 12 steppers I knew seemed concerned once that I was upset--so she spent two days trying to convince me to "check into detox". My repeated insistence that I had no chemicals in my system not found in (really natural, actually) foods was to no avail. "Denial"? No. Her only solution to life problems was checking into the psych hospital for detox. My problem? I'd just been robbed of $20k via ID theft. No meeting or detox for that, but it was pathological how they tried....weird, eh?
@blamethenile Rather obsessively so. It was actually a fun bit of laughs at a time when I was pretty upset at being robbed--the 1st several texts, at least. Detox for victims of ID theft? Great idea. It made no difference either to these people that my thief (it turned out) did this to buy apparently a LOT of meth. That was "his accountability problem", you see? Even though I was on nothing, my anger at it was enough. Cute. Luckily the courts here don't agree to that extent with steppers.
I think the drug industry is threatened by AA. Bill Wilson was VERY interested in vitamin therapy but that information gets suppressed. If you want to get clean and sober you have GOT to get your body healthy WITHOUT pharmaceutical drugs designed to keep you dependent. VITAMINS HELP. SUPPLEMENTS HELP. COLLOIDAL SILVER KICKS ASS! CHECK OUT THE FREE INFO AT CANADIAN WEBSITES ABOUT HEALTH cures that work but we aren't supposed to know about cuz they we wouldn't spend billions on crap.
This video points out the importance of an individual walking his own path to recovery. This behavior returns power to it's rightful place, in the hands of he who chooses to claim it.
Probably the biggest call to return to AA is that I followed the slogans and nuked all of my old friends/ relationships, etc... Of course the second I got in trouble and looked like I might drink again, all of the AA people went running. I have considered going back dozens of times, but the truth is that you don't make friends in AA. They are as fake as fake gets and will always drop the ball.
I always wondered what a "relapse" is. Is getting drunk or high once actually a relapse? AA would like to say it is, so that there is a no exit mentality. The heaven's gate videos are so similar to AA meetings that it really frightens me.
@Commonsense11111 If a individual can stop with one drink or substance then where is the problem? Thats common sense! I know of no one in a recovery program of any kind who has a problem because they only had one. I also know of no one person who left alcoholics anonymous and came back saying how good it was. The definition of alcoholism is a person who drinks habituous with no restraint. I know of no one person who does that, that doesn't have unsolved problems. Why would you want to exit?
@mamasboy815 Talk about cognitive dissonance....isn't the essence of the founding of AA that good ole Bill W. couldn't find a "traditional program" to get sober, so he created his own? Yet his followers damn &/or deny the claims of anyone who does get clean w/o "the group" and the dogma while blindly following the example of someone who supposedly broke the mold. Talk about "terminal uniqueness" (I really hate that term), the difference here is that most who succeed don't become cult leaders.
@LexeconKiddo The history of A.A. don't start with Bill W. . The Twelve Traditions are what in all essence define A.A. The Oxford Group and Ebby are where Bill was introduced. Only the story of Bill W. is where the idea that he started the movement came from. Alcoholics Anonymous was written and published only after the first 100 members developed the 12 steps. Granted Bill W. was a big part in the TERM Alcoholics Anonymous,the idea was far from original. One Alcoholic helping another? unigue?no
@mamasboy815 Yes, I know that, but it seems knowledge that is woefully lacking in meetings and 12 step rehabs. Few know this history, especially those entering the program (by choice or duress). What they know is what they're told, that Bill W found a new way--and paradoxically that anyone who does the same is w-r-o-n-g. It just makes no logical sense at the outset, that is my point. And why would one trust people that illogical right off the bat?
@LexeconKiddo The problem is to many people trying to fix something that isnt broke! It's time for the elder statesmen to stand up against the made up jingles if you will of the treatment centers.The worst enemy to any recovery program,be it A.A. or any other! Which by the way is many. Is the person with 1 or 2 years of sobriety who thinks they know everything! The men and women who have a true understanding should do as it was once done and intervene when a false statement is made.
@mamasboy815 Alcoholics Anonymous is not for the person who shares but for the one who listens. My experience didnt come from the amount I drank,but from my experience in recovery. Hang around A.A. long enough and you can learn every term slogan or even story of the members. It aint worth a dime if it aint backed up by a understanding,confidence and truth about the principles of the 12 steps! To practice the principles in my life daily is what it's about period! It aint no magic wand ! it's life
AA really isn't all that concerned about it's members staying sober (at least not in the abstract), as long as they keep coming back to meetings. Most 12 steppers have relapsed at least once, many of them several times.
i really think it is quite disgraceful that you would publicly attack an organization that was clearly only ever meant to help people and has helped many people. it is like criticizing a suicide hotline. if people can use this as a resource to better their lives, good for them. tho not an alcoholic i have been to aa meetings with significant others and/or family members and i found it an inspirational way of life with or without the abuse of alcohol.
@12lindseymichelle I have heard AA likened to many things, but never a suicide hotline. Wewho post these vids were both members of AA for many years, attended many meetings, and found it to be much less than an inspirational way of life. Uninspiring to us, anyway, to the degree that we feel compelled to report our findings. Mike
I'm a happy customer of AA, but I have no problem with this video. I tried most of the things suggested by blamethenile, but I failed miserably at all of them and it was only when I was forced into AA by the lash of my alcoholism did I find a solution. But I don't doubt there are other solutions out there also. I don't care how people get clean and sober, as long as they get clean and sober.
We need to remember there is no one answer. Too much variation in each situation. AA is free. It is a way to connect with others who share your dilemma. It works for me, I love the program and the friends I've made. I personally know 100 or more people who have recovered - I see them, talk to them. It's a fact I can see. The principles suggested are good, logical ways to think and behave. It's cool to surrender the fight, clean house and help others. Choose your own way, like you did w/your DOC
i agree yet disagree, remember the key concept of the principle of the fellowship is a spiritual way of life without resorting to vices, i have both experiance as a "sot' as well as healthcare worker treating "the drunks" yes the program doesn't work for all but i have seen the change for the better it brought people, i'm one who frequently relapse because i chose to not because the steps didn't work. remember "the drink and the bottle are only symbols of the real problem... ourself"
want the real bad news? AA didn't work for the founder so what makes you so special or anyone currently in aa: More TRUTH about aa/founder/non-program:
"In Aug1956...Heard guided Wilson on an LSD trip...profound impact on the world's best-known recovering alcoholic. Wilson took ...LSD trip at the Los Angles VA on Aug 29, 1956...the experience was a dead ringer for the famous night in the 1930s when he...had an epiphany about founding his ...program."
@LordInksworth How is Mike bad news? Is that because according to you, and AA, AA is the only way, and that anyone daring to go against the grain must therefore be dangerous? I welcome people challenging us - there is not one solution; if AA works for you, I have no issue - my PRIMARY concern is for those for whom it has not worked. AA is mainly 'bad' in my eyes as it claims to be the only way. The fact we can't work together is the real tragedy. B l A m E/J (not MIke) PS I made this film.
@blamethenile First of all Mike congratulations on 16 years that is quite an accomplishment. There is one thing that baffles me, I have been in for 22 years and I never heard that it was the only way, in fact just the opposite that it's not for everyone. I do like what you said as to "if it works for you then no problem", but the other statement I have never heard. Maybe it's a British thing, I'm sure there are subtle differences across the pond.
@tomhabs I'm right here in the good old US of A, and I have heard countless testimonials with the "I tried everything, but nothing else worked until I came to AA" line. When you ask them what else they tried, it usually turns out to be nothing at all. Ask them specifically about the countless alternative approaches, and they will look at you like you just grew a third eye. Mike
@blamethenile I agree som do said that personally I went to one detox before I ended up in a rehab three years later for 6 months so no I didn't try everything and maybe AA wasn't what got and kept me sober, but it sure didn't hurt. Mostly it gave me a way of life that I could deal with. Now I know I could have done that without AA, but the fact is I did it with AA, so that is where I have to give the credit.
I'm with AA and it works for me, but I did relapse a couple of times and I will admit that alot of this advice is very sound stuff. If AA is for you, great. If not, then there are other solutions.
A well balanced video, good work in presenting the other side of the argument.
What do you mean "Sticking your neck out?" You are just like most of the drunks slamming AA on the internet. If you want to stick your neck out, try saying something positive about AA. That also might be an idea.
Ex-drunk, more accurately. Check out our two videos, "what is good about AA?" and "Who is this channel for?". You seem to have landed here by mistake. Mike
@jacksonunit oh lemme start by saying AA positively didn't work for Bill W and therefore doesn't work for ANYONE ELSE.
what do they say in aa - jackson you special just like everybody else...you got some powerful serenity goin on there. now tell me how bill was just a man or make some other EXCUSE. pls. Your so charming and cordial...guess thats the program fer ya!
It seems that the time may have come to block all comments.
The lunatic fringe of aa zealots who come here to play the fool have lost their joke book. The entertainment value of their humor has fallen dramatically.
Wow I had no Idea Blamethenile still goes to meetings and still relapses regularly. WTF You go to meetings yet you post a consistent flow of videos trying to destroy their credibility. What is up with that?
None of my business? When somebody posts videos like this with the intention of gaining a public audience, the public is certainly entitled to ask a question that pertains to his videos.
All the questions you asked have been answered, on this page. Neither of the owners of this site have relapsed lately, and I still attend meetings so I can have face to face chats with folks like you. These videos express points of view. Mike
That you fail to see the contradiction is enough for me mike.
I already understand mike. You go to alot of time and effort to post wacky and catchy videos denouncing AA, yet you still attend.
Actually, you are in fact a great endorsement. Through your bitter resentments and regular relapses, you keep coming back! It must work! : )
I'm done here, but i will finish on this. Throw yourself into it mike, forget the bad experiences you had in AA. This works! You know it..otherwise u wouldnt go.
You offer me as an example of the effectiveness of AA. Interesting idea, but flawed. I successfully abstain in spite of AA, not because of it. If, however, you choose to hold me up as an example of an AA success to potential indoctrinees, send them on over. Thanks in advance for the plug. Now, go out and reinforce that 5% retention rate. Mike
@blamethenile Mike you are still using that 5% retention rate which is not true. I think I recently send you some facts that totally disprove this claim, if I didn't let me know and I will resend, but I'll need your email address because it won't fit on here.
@tomhabs If you are talking about that lengthy revisionist piece of denial by Kurtz and co. which came out a couple years ago, don't bother. I already read it. All it said was a twist on the "of those who really try, 50% succeed" line. Mike
@blamethenile @blamethenile Here it is Mike it is very long, but I think it is much more accurate then the 5% that everybody has jumped on and no it really doesn't matter to me whether it's 5% or 95% it works for me. I'm just afraid someone new is going to read your stuff and decide not to give it a try. If your truly opened minded you will have to conced at least a little, if not it will be obvious it's a vendetta. Tom
@tomhabs You confuse open-mindedness with gullibility. When you bring new ideas to the table, we will be happy to look at them, but you just keep re-hashing the same ol' tired rhetoric. Since you could care less about success rates, why do you even bother? You got yours, and if AA kills a couple dozen to find one keeper, so what, right? Mike
@blamethenile I thought we could have a intelligent back and forth on this topic, but when you starting using terms like "killing" you loose me. How can AA kill people? It may not help them, but killing them is a bit extreme. Gullibility umm don't get that either and I don't think it is me whose confused. You obvious have a lot of talent you should use it to help people not call them names because they disagree with you. And if you think your helping with the retoric your selling your wrong.
@tomhabs Hey Tom, it's B l A m E here, how are you? I made this film but I do not understand what Mike has said wrong? (Mike helps me deal with all the comments for our videos.) If he has already read something, and has an opinion, what is the matter with that? AA can kill people by telling them they are 'powerless' so when they relapse some don't bother trying to stop. Anyway I hope you stick around; we invite intelligent challenge. B l A m E
@tomhabs Actually, you were the one who implied that our vids kill drunks, and called us "ignorant" for not being reasonable, and agreeing with you. Mike
@blamethenile No I'm not and it's not something that I would even think of, I don't know where you got that and I would never call anyone ignorant. i resent the implication that your making. I didn't get into name calling with you and I never would. I obviously need to communicate with BlAme he seems a lot less defensive and a little more intelligent.
@tomhabs Sorry, I guess I had you confused with that guy who went ape on our homepage last week. At any rate, I don't recall any namecalling directed your way. BlAme is a very nice guy, until you get on his nerves, so communicate away. Mike
@tomhabs Like I said previously, I have already read that particular piece of work, at length, and find it to be no more than a re-hashed blaming of AA failures on "not really trying". Sorry, but it does nothing to dispute the 5% annual retention rate for all those who attend AA. Mike
@blamethenile I really don't believe you have read the whole thing or you wouldn't hold on to this stance obviously there is no middle ground with you it is either your way or no way at all. I agree maybe there figures are too much on the positive, but not nearly as biased as yours are. Come on Mike give a little and show everybody your not as vindicative as you come across.
@tomhabs I'm not vindictive, but there is no middle ground. I read the report thoroughly early on. In 1949, Bill W. stated that 3 or 4 out of 5 who come to AA leave after a short time. Of the remaining 1 or 2, 50% remain sober. That yields, by Bill's account, a 10 to 20% overall success rate. In January 2008 Art, Tom and Glen said exactly the same thing, although it took them 33 pages to say it. By my own research and observations, and others, I believe their numbers to be inflated. Mike
Just trying to understand. You hate AA, bitch constantly about it...yet still attend?
The truth here dix, and everyone reading this knows it...is that i don't need to know the answer................ You do!!
You hate AA, you also hate relapses? That's ok, it's your right. Just don't try to discredit something you actively participate in. I mean, can't you see the sickness in that?
"Hate" is a very strong word, hardly indicative of my feelings toward AA. Mike and Dix are two different people. I don't believe Dix still attends meetings. Mike
I have one question, and one question only, and if you are as honest as you say you are, the answer you give might even give you something to think about....
For someone with an obvious hatred for alcoholics anonymous, to the point where you actually create a website with which to condemn the fellowship as much as possible....why do you still attend meetings????
You see where i am going here...it doesn't make much sense. Surely, if it is so bad and so faulty, why would you continue?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Why dont you be honest mike, and tell us what really happened. Did you get stung in AA? AA is full of sick people trying to get well, there are others that maybe aren't trying to get well, but still there. i have had bad experiences in AA, i must admit that. But the overall principle works. The phrase, "stick with the winners" covers this. But yea, i have seen the ugly side of it, no doubt. Still, i keep going, i love it. I don't let anyone, inside or outside of AA, deny me recovery. Peace 2 u..
I'm always honest, sometimes to a fault. The problem with your proposition is that most of the" winners" don't stick around. With a 5% one-year retention rate, there are very few "winners". Picking one will be a virtual impossibility. 81 newcomers in my hometown from the class of 94. Four of us picked up one year coins, three got two year coins, and two of us made it thru today. Guess that makes me a winner, so stick around. Mike
your insincerity is appealing if i were still attending those insincere mtgs. Really bud. AA didn't work for Bill even he knew. he was just trying sell a few books so he didn't have to work anymore. Jeez. Evolve whadya got like 20-30yrs? really dude. you're not going drink unless you choose to drink. Quit tryin to save AA its dying on the"grapevine." News flash: Science prevails. Quack medicine fails. Stop the presses right? Go play with grand kids man. peace. u cans see pretty girl at the mall.
..."making contact with people who have remained sober/clean/managed to moderate,etc...."
I mean, did you bother to read over this junk you put in your video before posting? you display a sheer ignorance to addiction that is certainly dangerous, both to yourself and to others that might actually miss the contradictions in your musings..
True, fade in/fade out white text on black background, and emotional black and white still shots make it look nice, but the content is incredible! Insanity?
Well...for a real alcoholic, which is what i am, there was no other solution to stop drinking. I only post this, in case someone that desperatly needs help actually takes your opinion to heart.
I slept on streets, woke up in police cells, and destroyed every friendship and relationship i ever had. And destroyed my mind just for good measure. AA...slowly, and when i was willing, showed me a way to change my mind, restart my life, and be happy on an ongoing basis.
Begin by losing the rhetorical nonsense. AA may have ostensibly provided you a starting-off point by abstinence, but to say there is no other way is absolutist silliness. As for your other tales of drunkedness and woe, we all have them. After listening to literally thousands of them, they all sound about the same. Mike
What i said mike, if you'd care to read it as written, was that for "me", it was the only way to stop. And once stopped, i needed a new way to live. That's where the 12 step program came in.
I can only share what has worked for me. AA does not hold the franchise to stopping drinking. I know plenty that stopped, and stayed stopped without ever joining AA. These, from what i have seen, are the tiny minority. It's a horrible disease, for me, whatever it takes to stay sober. I wish you well..
And for me, your blatherings are all too typical of steppism's adherents. "Plenty" becomes tiny minority in the space of one sentence. Fact is, most people moderate or stop irresponsible drinking behavior on their own. Same thing in AA, except the true believers become convinced that AA deserves the credit. Mike
I don't even trust the validity of quotes anymore after being in AA, but I saw one yesterday on a bumper sticker that ought to mess with the minds of AA who love to quote Einstein's theory of insanity. "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of the truth." Einstein. AA being the authority on alcoholism & God masked as spirituality when it isn't true. AA is not the greatest spiritual movement of this century. More like one of the biggest cult lies of this century.
There are reasons why people get so caught up in an organization such as aa. A root cause, I think, is fear; fear based upon a lack of self confidence and self respect. It is, for many, difficult to just walk away.
If AA can manage to get someone to go to 90 mtgs. in 90 days they have already started to isolate a person away from having non-AA relationships. The program starts to consume a person's life. I spent over a year debating being in AA before I finally was so disgusted I couldn't ignore it anymore & left. It was hard the first year after leaving esp. running into AA cult members who do "change" if you aren't one of them anymore. I am glad to be out of AA. Deprogramming was worth evern second.
AA turns sobriety into an either-or of AA cult membership, with relapse as the only means of escape from the cult - this is one of the main aspects of AA-related harm.
Today I find cannot stress too often or too strongly that alcoholism, sobriety, relapse, etc. are REAL, reality-based, real-world issues - not cult conversion, cult membership, or cult ideology issues.
wise words . i did aa 3 or 4 times and came to the conclusion , its wasnt for me .. sobriety came after many many attempts , countless detoxes and plenty of hospital time . one day i awoke on a ward in the local hospital and just said to myself , thats it , end game , booze and i are done .. i had a great doctor who had no time for aa and we came up with a perfectly good plan and it worked . no , witchdoctor higherpower juju majic required . just me and my selfwill . simple .aa , no way ....
I stopped drinking for about 17 years (I actually stopped bothering to keep count). Before that I had a couple of "relapses" whilst attending the rooms. One of those occasions was really a deliberate means of letting go of an aa commitment I was very uncomfortable with (meeting secretary). At the time, drinking seemed the easiest way to jettison active involvement with the cult.
For most of that period of abstinence I attended very few meetings and had no involvement in the program. I managed to get proper medical help leading to a bipolar diagnosis. In the course of treatment for this I had liver function and other vital organ tests which showed me to be physically healthy. I now understand my past "abuse" of alcohol as self-medication for an underlying problem. I returned to moderate drinking a year ago with no adverse consequences so far.
Thanks. Your post demonstrates nicely the fact that ex-AAers are of many different ilks, outcomes, and dispositions. Some drink, some don't, while many wind up in AA because of other mental health issues. Self-medicating for those issues with alcohol is very common, and treating folks who do so as alcohol-dependent doesn't help much with their real problems. Mike
It seems to me that the variables of alcoholism/addiction can be as endless as the many individuals who seek help. The number one mental health issue I witnessed in AA was depression which makes sense in relationship to alcohol being a depressant that probably has long-term effects on brain chemistry even sober. AAs trying to cure it with prayer, meditation, & AA program work is just plain goofy in the first place. I was 4 months sober going into AA, but never happy at AA. AA is depressing.
Thankyou Jimmy for posting this. This is a very important subject. I have seen people go on suicidal binges on leaving AA because they believed the lie. It does not need to be that way.
Before leaving AA in my desperate search for "winners" I was told to contact an OT who had around 30 years in AA & he proceeded to brag about his current 6 months sober cuz he is a black-out drinker. When I left AA, I did drink again only to reclaim my sanity from the nonsense at AA, & to remind myself why I chose to quit drinking. Drinking after leaving AA was the first step to deprogramming. I have been sober just fine w/out the insane AA cult death lies.
@humyepright I almost lost my sanity in the rooms, and when I dared to trust my own perceptions & thoughts 'which AA doesn't want me to do btw' I started to feel better and stronger in myself. That crap did me more harm than good. Being around crazy fanatical for 10 years is damaging to ones sanity. And my 'evil' ego is part of me.
ultimately, you are your own 'solution' - in or out of AA.
you're never alone in anything. that's just the nature of the human condition. asking for help doesn't necessitate going down the [vaguely] CBT-oriented gone decidedly supernatural 12-step rabbit hole.
i would recommend not even using the term 'relapse' as it pre-supposes an initial 'lapsed' condition. stopping problematic behavior requires determination, thought, & flexibility.
be firm but cut yourself a break. as many as necessary.
AA also tells you that all your problems arise from drink or drug abuse. They minimise everything else. And that keeps you feeling 'sick and diseased'. Leaving the brainwashing of AA is tough and takes time, and in my case involved a relapse, but not because I was powerless. It was a wilfull decision. I then sought non AA professional support. Don't be ashamed or tricked back into AA. Odds are you would have relapsed in the rooms anyway. And be blamed for it! Get help - not AA.
Relapse is a consistancy of AA and all of the associated Anon groups. The programme does more to harm than heal. Being brainwashed into thinking you are powerless encourages relapse by its very nature. Leaving AA gives you back responsiblility. Some relapse, some don't. But that's nothing to do with leaving the programme.
Statistcs show that AA has a 95 percentage of failure. PERIOD.
gamerdaddy 3 months ago
ive been going on and off for years and actually enjoy the social pariah in the room status i have aquired.someone who i knew when i first went in and is now ten years sober asked me quite seriously why i wasnt dead yet or mad?i never bothered returning the question as i could clearly see she was alive thanks to her personal god and even more clearly mad.why do aa s always state that theyve never seen anyone return to the rooms and say its better out there? it would be one nasty cunt that did!
0flakey1 4 months ago
@0flakey1 I thought I enjoyed the status, as well, but it turns out that after I left, it was all just a big waste of my time. Trying to convince disturbed people of the insanity of their belief system is an endless exercise in futility. People who do find it to be better out here (probably the overwhelming majority of ex-attendees) are unmoved to return to the asylum to report findings. What would be the point? Mike BD
blamethenile 4 months ago
A few 12 steppers I knew seemed concerned once that I was upset--so she spent two days trying to convince me to "check into detox". My repeated insistence that I had no chemicals in my system not found in (really natural, actually) foods was to no avail. "Denial"? No. Her only solution to life problems was checking into the psych hospital for detox. My problem? I'd just been robbed of $20k via ID theft. No meeting or detox for that, but it was pathological how they tried....weird, eh?
LexeconKiddo 6 months ago in playlist More videos from blamethenile
@LexeconKiddo Another great example of the saying "if the only thing in your toolbox is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
@blamethenile Rather obsessively so. It was actually a fun bit of laughs at a time when I was pretty upset at being robbed--the 1st several texts, at least. Detox for victims of ID theft? Great idea. It made no difference either to these people that my thief (it turned out) did this to buy apparently a LOT of meth. That was "his accountability problem", you see? Even though I was on nothing, my anger at it was enough. Cute. Luckily the courts here don't agree to that extent with steppers.
LexeconKiddo 6 months ago
I think the drug industry is threatened by AA. Bill Wilson was VERY interested in vitamin therapy but that information gets suppressed. If you want to get clean and sober you have GOT to get your body healthy WITHOUT pharmaceutical drugs designed to keep you dependent. VITAMINS HELP. SUPPLEMENTS HELP. COLLOIDAL SILVER KICKS ASS! CHECK OUT THE FREE INFO AT CANADIAN WEBSITES ABOUT HEALTH cures that work but we aren't supposed to know about cuz they we wouldn't spend billions on crap.
my12steptruth 6 months ago
This video points out the importance of an individual walking his own path to recovery. This behavior returns power to it's rightful place, in the hands of he who chooses to claim it.
riveractor 9 months ago
... Just keep coming back man....
MiltaryFatiges 1 year ago
Comment removed
etulanko268 1 year ago
Probably the biggest call to return to AA is that I followed the slogans and nuked all of my old friends/ relationships, etc... Of course the second I got in trouble and looked like I might drink again, all of the AA people went running. I have considered going back dozens of times, but the truth is that you don't make friends in AA. They are as fake as fake gets and will always drop the ball.
peace,
David
sidiagung 1 year ago 3
@sidiagung That was essentially our experience, as well. Hope it has all worked out for you. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
I always wondered what a "relapse" is. Is getting drunk or high once actually a relapse? AA would like to say it is, so that there is a no exit mentality. The heaven's gate videos are so similar to AA meetings that it really frightens me.
Commonsense11111 1 year ago
@Commonsense11111 If a individual can stop with one drink or substance then where is the problem? Thats common sense! I know of no one in a recovery program of any kind who has a problem because they only had one. I also know of no one person who left alcoholics anonymous and came back saying how good it was. The definition of alcoholism is a person who drinks habituous with no restraint. I know of no one person who does that, that doesn't have unsolved problems. Why would you want to exit?
mamasboy815 7 months ago
@mamasboy815
wow you missed the point
Commonsense11111 7 months ago
@mamasboy815 Talk about cognitive dissonance....isn't the essence of the founding of AA that good ole Bill W. couldn't find a "traditional program" to get sober, so he created his own? Yet his followers damn &/or deny the claims of anyone who does get clean w/o "the group" and the dogma while blindly following the example of someone who supposedly broke the mold. Talk about "terminal uniqueness" (I really hate that term), the difference here is that most who succeed don't become cult leaders.
LexeconKiddo 6 months ago
@LexeconKiddo The history of A.A. don't start with Bill W. . The Twelve Traditions are what in all essence define A.A. The Oxford Group and Ebby are where Bill was introduced. Only the story of Bill W. is where the idea that he started the movement came from. Alcoholics Anonymous was written and published only after the first 100 members developed the 12 steps. Granted Bill W. was a big part in the TERM Alcoholics Anonymous,the idea was far from original. One Alcoholic helping another? unigue?no
mamasboy815 5 months ago
@mamasboy815 Yes, I know that, but it seems knowledge that is woefully lacking in meetings and 12 step rehabs. Few know this history, especially those entering the program (by choice or duress). What they know is what they're told, that Bill W found a new way--and paradoxically that anyone who does the same is w-r-o-n-g. It just makes no logical sense at the outset, that is my point. And why would one trust people that illogical right off the bat?
LexeconKiddo 5 months ago
@LexeconKiddo The problem is to many people trying to fix something that isnt broke! It's time for the elder statesmen to stand up against the made up jingles if you will of the treatment centers.The worst enemy to any recovery program,be it A.A. or any other! Which by the way is many. Is the person with 1 or 2 years of sobriety who thinks they know everything! The men and women who have a true understanding should do as it was once done and intervene when a false statement is made.
mamasboy815 5 months ago
@mamasboy815 Alcoholics Anonymous is not for the person who shares but for the one who listens. My experience didnt come from the amount I drank,but from my experience in recovery. Hang around A.A. long enough and you can learn every term slogan or even story of the members. It aint worth a dime if it aint backed up by a understanding,confidence and truth about the principles of the 12 steps! To practice the principles in my life daily is what it's about period! It aint no magic wand ! it's life
mamasboy815 5 months ago
AA really isn't all that concerned about it's members staying sober (at least not in the abstract), as long as they keep coming back to meetings. Most 12 steppers have relapsed at least once, many of them several times.
danielsimonon 1 year ago
@danielsimonon Agreed on all points. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
i was in aa for 7 years. im now free from it and i drink once in a blue moon. i was just deppressed. aa helped me but i grew out of it
martinefay 1 year ago
So, you're telling me not to believe in Jesus and to sin as much as I like?
HOW DARE YOU!!!
AnviIOfKrom 1 year ago
i really think it is quite disgraceful that you would publicly attack an organization that was clearly only ever meant to help people and has helped many people. it is like criticizing a suicide hotline. if people can use this as a resource to better their lives, good for them. tho not an alcoholic i have been to aa meetings with significant others and/or family members and i found it an inspirational way of life with or without the abuse of alcohol.
12lindseymichelle 1 year ago
@12lindseymichelle I have heard AA likened to many things, but never a suicide hotline. Wewho post these vids were both members of AA for many years, attended many meetings, and found it to be much less than an inspirational way of life. Uninspiring to us, anyway, to the degree that we feel compelled to report our findings. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago 2
I'm a happy customer of AA, but I have no problem with this video. I tried most of the things suggested by blamethenile, but I failed miserably at all of them and it was only when I was forced into AA by the lash of my alcoholism did I find a solution. But I don't doubt there are other solutions out there also. I don't care how people get clean and sober, as long as they get clean and sober.
Dontworrybehappyism 1 year ago
We need to remember there is no one answer. Too much variation in each situation. AA is free. It is a way to connect with others who share your dilemma. It works for me, I love the program and the friends I've made. I personally know 100 or more people who have recovered - I see them, talk to them. It's a fact I can see. The principles suggested are good, logical ways to think and behave. It's cool to surrender the fight, clean house and help others. Choose your own way, like you did w/your DOC
twilli1959 1 year ago
That said, good video.
tzlmongo 1 year ago
@tzlmongo Thanks, Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
Are you an active user? junkie? If so you are not the go to guy in the AA a crock of
shit or not a crock of shit debate? I'll go to Stanton P. for that, the Edward Said of
your movement
tzlmongo 1 year ago
@tzlmongo No, no active users or junkies here, Tomorrow is my 16th anniversary, drug and alcohol free. Stanton is still a go-to guy, tho. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
i agree yet disagree, remember the key concept of the principle of the fellowship is a spiritual way of life without resorting to vices, i have both experiance as a "sot' as well as healthcare worker treating "the drunks" yes the program doesn't work for all but i have seen the change for the better it brought people, i'm one who frequently relapse because i chose to not because the steps didn't work. remember "the drink and the bottle are only symbols of the real problem... ourself"
jujuvoodoo 1 year ago
want the real bad news? AA didn't work for the founder so what makes you so special or anyone currently in aa: More TRUTH about aa/founder/non-program:
"In Aug1956...Heard guided Wilson on an LSD trip...profound impact on the world's best-known recovering alcoholic. Wilson took ...LSD trip at the Los Angles VA on Aug 29, 1956...the experience was a dead ringer for the famous night in the 1930s when he...had an epiphany about founding his ...program."
The Harvard Psychedelic Club, pg 66-67
kc1964kc 1 year ago
I'm bored of you now Mike. You're bad news man.
LordInksworth 1 year ago
@LordInksworth Well, take care of yourself, and thanks for stopping by. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@LordInksworth How is Mike bad news? Is that because according to you, and AA, AA is the only way, and that anyone daring to go against the grain must therefore be dangerous? I welcome people challenging us - there is not one solution; if AA works for you, I have no issue - my PRIMARY concern is for those for whom it has not worked. AA is mainly 'bad' in my eyes as it claims to be the only way. The fact we can't work together is the real tragedy. B l A m E/J (not MIke) PS I made this film.
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile First of all Mike congratulations on 16 years that is quite an accomplishment. There is one thing that baffles me, I have been in for 22 years and I never heard that it was the only way, in fact just the opposite that it's not for everyone. I do like what you said as to "if it works for you then no problem", but the other statement I have never heard. Maybe it's a British thing, I'm sure there are subtle differences across the pond.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs I'm right here in the good old US of A, and I have heard countless testimonials with the "I tried everything, but nothing else worked until I came to AA" line. When you ask them what else they tried, it usually turns out to be nothing at all. Ask them specifically about the countless alternative approaches, and they will look at you like you just grew a third eye. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile I agree som do said that personally I went to one detox before I ended up in a rehab three years later for 6 months so no I didn't try everything and maybe AA wasn't what got and kept me sober, but it sure didn't hurt. Mostly it gave me a way of life that I could deal with. Now I know I could have done that without AA, but the fact is I did it with AA, so that is where I have to give the credit.
tomhabs 1 year ago
I'm with AA and it works for me, but I did relapse a couple of times and I will admit that alot of this advice is very sound stuff. If AA is for you, great. If not, then there are other solutions.
A well balanced video, good work in presenting the other side of the argument.
RickinHK 1 year ago
Good to hear that it is working out for you. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
What do you mean "Sticking your neck out?" You are just like most of the drunks slamming AA on the internet. If you want to stick your neck out, try saying something positive about AA. That also might be an idea.
jacksonunit 2 years ago
Ex-drunk, more accurately. Check out our two videos, "what is good about AA?" and "Who is this channel for?". You seem to have landed here by mistake. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
jacksonunit -- 'drunks slamming AA"? Is there a reason for you to post here? Other write silly insults?
If there is, I do not need to know. keep it to yourself.
dix345 2 years ago
@jacksonunit oh lemme start by saying AA positively didn't work for Bill W and therefore doesn't work for ANYONE ELSE.
what do they say in aa - jackson you special just like everybody else...you got some powerful serenity goin on there. now tell me how bill was just a man or make some other EXCUSE. pls. Your so charming and cordial...guess thats the program fer ya!
kc1964kc 1 year ago
It seems that the time may have come to block all comments.
The lunatic fringe of aa zealots who come here to play the fool have lost their joke book. The entertainment value of their humor has fallen dramatically.
dix345 2 years ago
Wow I had no Idea Blamethenile still goes to meetings and still relapses regularly. WTF You go to meetings yet you post a consistent flow of videos trying to destroy their credibility. What is up with that?
craphit2000 2 years ago
You still have no idea. No one around here has relapsed for while. Constant flow? Check the dates. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
none of your business, pinhead
dix345 2 years ago
None of my business? When somebody posts videos like this with the intention of gaining a public audience, the public is certainly entitled to ask a question that pertains to his videos.
craphit2000 2 years ago
All the questions you asked have been answered, on this page. Neither of the owners of this site have relapsed lately, and I still attend meetings so I can have face to face chats with folks like you. These videos express points of view. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
Folks like me.....? you know me?
craphit2000 2 years ago
As well as I need to. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
again -- mind your own business.
got it?
dix345 2 years ago
any oyther brilliant remarks? make my second and post just one
dix345 2 years ago
Why do you go to AA meetings mike?
FrankLeach 2 years ago
So I can have chats like this with folks like you, face to face. Why do you come to sites like this, Frank?
blamethenile 2 years ago
Why do i come on youtube? Entertainment, and you provide plenty. You go to AA for chats with folk like me??
I go to stop drinking, and avail of the programme that will help me live my life.
Craphit2000, his stance is the baffling part of this disease. Don't blame him, blame denial.
FrankLeach 2 years ago
Go on back to eyeluv's channel and whine about that crazy nasty Mikeblame guy blocking you. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
frank, you are a fool.
get out of here, pinhead
dix345 2 years ago
get out fool.
dix345 2 years ago
That you fail to see the contradiction is enough for me mike.
I already understand mike. You go to alot of time and effort to post wacky and catchy videos denouncing AA, yet you still attend.
Actually, you are in fact a great endorsement. Through your bitter resentments and regular relapses, you keep coming back! It must work! : )
I'm done here, but i will finish on this. Throw yourself into it mike, forget the bad experiences you had in AA. This works! You know it..otherwise u wouldnt go.
FrankLeach 2 years ago
You offer me as an example of the effectiveness of AA. Interesting idea, but flawed. I successfully abstain in spite of AA, not because of it. If, however, you choose to hold me up as an example of an AA success to potential indoctrinees, send them on over. Thanks in advance for the plug. Now, go out and reinforce that 5% retention rate. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
@blamethenile Mike you are still using that 5% retention rate which is not true. I think I recently send you some facts that totally disprove this claim, if I didn't let me know and I will resend, but I'll need your email address because it won't fit on here.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs If you are talking about that lengthy revisionist piece of denial by Kurtz and co. which came out a couple years ago, don't bother. I already read it. All it said was a twist on the "of those who really try, 50% succeed" line. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile @blamethenile Here it is Mike it is very long, but I think it is much more accurate then the 5% that everybody has jumped on and no it really doesn't matter to me whether it's 5% or 95% it works for me. I'm just afraid someone new is going to read your stuff and decide not to give it a try. If your truly opened minded you will have to conced at least a little, if not it will be obvious it's a vendetta. Tom
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs You confuse open-mindedness with gullibility. When you bring new ideas to the table, we will be happy to look at them, but you just keep re-hashing the same ol' tired rhetoric. Since you could care less about success rates, why do you even bother? You got yours, and if AA kills a couple dozen to find one keeper, so what, right? Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile I thought we could have a intelligent back and forth on this topic, but when you starting using terms like "killing" you loose me. How can AA kill people? It may not help them, but killing them is a bit extreme. Gullibility umm don't get that either and I don't think it is me whose confused. You obvious have a lot of talent you should use it to help people not call them names because they disagree with you. And if you think your helping with the retoric your selling your wrong.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs Hey Tom, it's B l A m E here, how are you? I made this film but I do not understand what Mike has said wrong? (Mike helps me deal with all the comments for our videos.) If he has already read something, and has an opinion, what is the matter with that? AA can kill people by telling them they are 'powerless' so when they relapse some don't bother trying to stop. Anyway I hope you stick around; we invite intelligent challenge. B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@tomhabs Actually, you were the one who implied that our vids kill drunks, and called us "ignorant" for not being reasonable, and agreeing with you. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile No I'm not and it's not something that I would even think of, I don't know where you got that and I would never call anyone ignorant. i resent the implication that your making. I didn't get into name calling with you and I never would. I obviously need to communicate with BlAme he seems a lot less defensive and a little more intelligent.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs Sorry, I guess I had you confused with that guy who went ape on our homepage last week. At any rate, I don't recall any namecalling directed your way. BlAme is a very nice guy, until you get on his nerves, so communicate away. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile I have tried to send you the link, but for some reason it won't take it you can try googling "Recovery outcome rates in AA"
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs Like I said previously, I have already read that particular piece of work, at length, and find it to be no more than a re-hashed blaming of AA failures on "not really trying". Sorry, but it does nothing to dispute the 5% annual retention rate for all those who attend AA. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile I really don't believe you have read the whole thing or you wouldn't hold on to this stance obviously there is no middle ground with you it is either your way or no way at all. I agree maybe there figures are too much on the positive, but not nearly as biased as yours are. Come on Mike give a little and show everybody your not as vindicative as you come across.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs I'm not vindictive, but there is no middle ground. I read the report thoroughly early on. In 1949, Bill W. stated that 3 or 4 out of 5 who come to AA leave after a short time. Of the remaining 1 or 2, 50% remain sober. That yields, by Bill's account, a 10 to 20% overall success rate. In January 2008 Art, Tom and Glen said exactly the same thing, although it took them 33 pages to say it. By my own research and observations, and others, I believe their numbers to be inflated. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
delete this user name. it is no longer useful to keep it around
dix345 2 years ago
Just trying to understand. You hate AA, bitch constantly about it...yet still attend?
The truth here dix, and everyone reading this knows it...is that i don't need to know the answer................ You do!!
You hate AA, you also hate relapses? That's ok, it's your right. Just don't try to discredit something you actively participate in. I mean, can't you see the sickness in that?
Come on man, you are better than that!
FrankLeach 2 years ago
"Hate" is a very strong word, hardly indicative of my feelings toward AA. Mike and Dix are two different people. I don't believe Dix still attends meetings. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
fool
dix345 2 years ago
I have one question, and one question only, and if you are as honest as you say you are, the answer you give might even give you something to think about....
For someone with an obvious hatred for alcoholics anonymous, to the point where you actually create a website with which to condemn the fellowship as much as possible....why do you still attend meetings????
You see where i am going here...it doesn't make much sense. Surely, if it is so bad and so faulty, why would you continue?
FrankLeach 2 years ago
frank, what are trying to do? Imitate a half drunk prosecutor?
And, just what makes you think that you have a need to know?
dix345 2 years ago
That was two questions. Your understanding of my motivations, or lack thereof, isn't really my concern. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Why dont you be honest mike, and tell us what really happened. Did you get stung in AA? AA is full of sick people trying to get well, there are others that maybe aren't trying to get well, but still there. i have had bad experiences in AA, i must admit that. But the overall principle works. The phrase, "stick with the winners" covers this. But yea, i have seen the ugly side of it, no doubt. Still, i keep going, i love it. I don't let anyone, inside or outside of AA, deny me recovery. Peace 2 u..
FrankLeach 2 years ago
'frank' very silly and childish.
'Stick with the winners' eh? That post does not sound like you are one of those.
dix345 2 years ago
I'm always honest, sometimes to a fault. The problem with your proposition is that most of the" winners" don't stick around. With a 5% one-year retention rate, there are very few "winners". Picking one will be a virtual impossibility. 81 newcomers in my hometown from the class of 94. Four of us picked up one year coins, three got two year coins, and two of us made it thru today. Guess that makes me a winner, so stick around. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
your insincerity is appealing if i were still attending those insincere mtgs. Really bud. AA didn't work for Bill even he knew. he was just trying sell a few books so he didn't have to work anymore. Jeez. Evolve whadya got like 20-30yrs? really dude. you're not going drink unless you choose to drink. Quit tryin to save AA its dying on the"grapevine." News flash: Science prevails. Quack medicine fails. Stop the presses right? Go play with grand kids man. peace. u cans see pretty girl at the mall.
kc1964kc 1 year ago
..."making contact with people who have remained sober/clean/managed to moderate,etc...."
I mean, did you bother to read over this junk you put in your video before posting? you display a sheer ignorance to addiction that is certainly dangerous, both to yourself and to others that might actually miss the contradictions in your musings..
True, fade in/fade out white text on black background, and emotional black and white still shots make it look nice, but the content is incredible! Insanity?
FrankLeach 2 years ago
shher ignorance?
Get a grip mister
dix345 2 years ago
Disagreeing with your nonsense hardly constitutes ignorance of anything, nor does indoctrination at the level you exhibit indicate intellect. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
Hey, it's all good. I am happy. Hope you are too mike.
Take it easy, i wish you well in life.
FrankLeach 2 years ago
Yup, all good. Thanks. Right back at you. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
see ya comedian. gong
dix345 2 years ago
wow..where to begin?
Well...for a real alcoholic, which is what i am, there was no other solution to stop drinking. I only post this, in case someone that desperatly needs help actually takes your opinion to heart.
I slept on streets, woke up in police cells, and destroyed every friendship and relationship i ever had. And destroyed my mind just for good measure. AA...slowly, and when i was willing, showed me a way to change my mind, restart my life, and be happy on an ongoing basis.
FrankLeach 2 years ago
Begin by losing the rhetorical nonsense. AA may have ostensibly provided you a starting-off point by abstinence, but to say there is no other way is absolutist silliness. As for your other tales of drunkedness and woe, we all have them. After listening to literally thousands of them, they all sound about the same. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
What i said mike, if you'd care to read it as written, was that for "me", it was the only way to stop. And once stopped, i needed a new way to live. That's where the 12 step program came in.
I can only share what has worked for me. AA does not hold the franchise to stopping drinking. I know plenty that stopped, and stayed stopped without ever joining AA. These, from what i have seen, are the tiny minority. It's a horrible disease, for me, whatever it takes to stay sober. I wish you well..
FrankLeach 2 years ago
tiny minority? In your dreams
dix345 2 years ago
And for me, your blatherings are all too typical of steppism's adherents. "Plenty" becomes tiny minority in the space of one sentence. Fact is, most people moderate or stop irresponsible drinking behavior on their own. Same thing in AA, except the true believers become convinced that AA deserves the credit. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
real alcoholic? what is that?
Oh, AA did not do anything You did it. ThaThe fact that you can't accept that is your problem. Get a grip
dix345 2 years ago
I don't even trust the validity of quotes anymore after being in AA, but I saw one yesterday on a bumper sticker that ought to mess with the minds of AA who love to quote Einstein's theory of insanity. "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of the truth." Einstein. AA being the authority on alcoholism & God masked as spirituality when it isn't true. AA is not the greatest spiritual movement of this century. More like one of the biggest cult lies of this century.
humyepright 2 years ago 2
There are reasons why people get so caught up in an organization such as aa. A root cause, I think, is fear; fear based upon a lack of self confidence and self respect. It is, for many, difficult to just walk away.
The ties that bind.
dix345 2 years ago
If AA can manage to get someone to go to 90 mtgs. in 90 days they have already started to isolate a person away from having non-AA relationships. The program starts to consume a person's life. I spent over a year debating being in AA before I finally was so disgusted I couldn't ignore it anymore & left. It was hard the first year after leaving esp. running into AA cult members who do "change" if you aren't one of them anymore. I am glad to be out of AA. Deprogramming was worth evern second.
humyepright 2 years ago
Yep - The whole "No Graduates" philosophy says it all !
zooromeo 2 years ago 7
Hi Jimmy, brilliant Vid again.
Mack
ijmac09 2 years ago
AA turns sobriety into an either-or of AA cult membership, with relapse as the only means of escape from the cult - this is one of the main aspects of AA-related harm.
Today I find cannot stress too often or too strongly that alcoholism, sobriety, relapse, etc. are REAL, reality-based, real-world issues - not cult conversion, cult membership, or cult ideology issues.
Enantiodromialist 2 years ago 3
wise words . i did aa 3 or 4 times and came to the conclusion , its wasnt for me .. sobriety came after many many attempts , countless detoxes and plenty of hospital time . one day i awoke on a ward in the local hospital and just said to myself , thats it , end game , booze and i are done .. i had a great doctor who had no time for aa and we came up with a perfectly good plan and it worked . no , witchdoctor higherpower juju majic required . just me and my selfwill . simple .aa , no way ....
mejustjeri 2 years ago 3
I stopped drinking for about 17 years (I actually stopped bothering to keep count). Before that I had a couple of "relapses" whilst attending the rooms. One of those occasions was really a deliberate means of letting go of an aa commitment I was very uncomfortable with (meeting secretary). At the time, drinking seemed the easiest way to jettison active involvement with the cult.
tobytwirrll 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
tobytwirrll 2 years ago
For most of that period of abstinence I attended very few meetings and had no involvement in the program. I managed to get proper medical help leading to a bipolar diagnosis. In the course of treatment for this I had liver function and other vital organ tests which showed me to be physically healthy. I now understand my past "abuse" of alcohol as self-medication for an underlying problem. I returned to moderate drinking a year ago with no adverse consequences so far.
tobytwirrll 2 years ago 6
Thanks. Your post demonstrates nicely the fact that ex-AAers are of many different ilks, outcomes, and dispositions. Some drink, some don't, while many wind up in AA because of other mental health issues. Self-medicating for those issues with alcohol is very common, and treating folks who do so as alcohol-dependent doesn't help much with their real problems. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
It seems to me that the variables of alcoholism/addiction can be as endless as the many individuals who seek help. The number one mental health issue I witnessed in AA was depression which makes sense in relationship to alcohol being a depressant that probably has long-term effects on brain chemistry even sober. AAs trying to cure it with prayer, meditation, & AA program work is just plain goofy in the first place. I was 4 months sober going into AA, but never happy at AA. AA is depressing.
humyepright 2 years ago
I, too, drank again after many years in large part to jettison a life I saw no other way out of. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
Thankyou Jimmy for posting this. This is a very important subject. I have seen people go on suicidal binges on leaving AA because they believed the lie. It does not need to be that way.
godlessweasel 2 years ago 2
get help - help yourself - not aa
artdietrich 2 years ago
Before leaving AA in my desperate search for "winners" I was told to contact an OT who had around 30 years in AA & he proceeded to brag about his current 6 months sober cuz he is a black-out drinker. When I left AA, I did drink again only to reclaim my sanity from the nonsense at AA, & to remind myself why I chose to quit drinking. Drinking after leaving AA was the first step to deprogramming. I have been sober just fine w/out the insane AA cult death lies.
humyepright 2 years ago 7
@humyepright I almost lost my sanity in the rooms, and when I dared to trust my own perceptions & thoughts 'which AA doesn't want me to do btw' I started to feel better and stronger in myself. That crap did me more harm than good. Being around crazy fanatical for 10 years is damaging to ones sanity. And my 'evil' ego is part of me.
yam500 1 year ago 2
ultimately, you are your own 'solution' - in or out of AA.
you're never alone in anything. that's just the nature of the human condition. asking for help doesn't necessitate going down the [vaguely] CBT-oriented gone decidedly supernatural 12-step rabbit hole.
i would recommend not even using the term 'relapse' as it pre-supposes an initial 'lapsed' condition. stopping problematic behavior requires determination, thought, & flexibility.
be firm but cut yourself a break. as many as necessary.
notspeedy0314 2 years ago 3
Well, aa and 12 step have absolutely nothing to do with drinking. There is only one way to quit drinking. Full stop.
dix345 2 years ago 4
AA = Addiction to circular logic and stupidity.
isegoria1 2 years ago 3
excellent, thanks for posting this.
breakfastclub75 2 years ago 2
AA also tells you that all your problems arise from drink or drug abuse. They minimise everything else. And that keeps you feeling 'sick and diseased'. Leaving the brainwashing of AA is tough and takes time, and in my case involved a relapse, but not because I was powerless. It was a wilfull decision. I then sought non AA professional support. Don't be ashamed or tricked back into AA. Odds are you would have relapsed in the rooms anyway. And be blamed for it! Get help - not AA.
9faceless 2 years ago 3
Relapse is a consistancy of AA and all of the associated Anon groups. The programme does more to harm than heal. Being brainwashed into thinking you are powerless encourages relapse by its very nature. Leaving AA gives you back responsiblility. Some relapse, some don't. But that's nothing to do with leaving the programme.
9faceless 2 years ago 4