I'm actually going to cmment on the video, which no one else sees to had done.
I read Pr. Di Cosima's book and found it very interesting; too bad the first three books of Dzengsheo's diary are lost.
As for the presentation, it seems that women has an agenda and is passively denouncing Pr. Di Cosima. Also, she uses the term "sefl-criticism" which sent chills down my spine. That expression is rhetoric of the Cultural Revolution and Maoist terror. Even at the end, she sounds sarcastic.
@Mujangga Hah that's because she is Manchu and has to ride a high horse in order to retain universalistically pretentious attitude towards the rest of Han Chinese who don't share her views necessarily. They always pretend to take the high road even when their rule was totally wrong. They did not conquer, Han Chinese let them in unlike the Mongol conquerors and they tried to encode Chinese culture in their favor by telling everyone to change dress and not write bad things about Manchus.
Also, KoriSenbay, aka realtruehistory, aka QingIsNotChina, is clearly not here in good will. Reading his comments under various videos, it's blatantly obvious he's here primarily to get under Chinese's skin and to promote Korean-centrism. He wants to make Chinese and other East Asians feel inferior to Koreans - that's his goal.
Dynasties like Sui, Tang, and Shang are widely acknowledged to be Chinese by international historians, including those who write the textbooks. There are people who refuse to accept these historians' views and who insist on their own, self-serving versions. But what's important is that Chinese are not fabricating anything, b/c the views are held internationally. Why bother with youtube when you can read credible historians? Those who learn their history from youtube shouldn't be trusted anyways.
Dongyi, Sianbi, Jurchens/Manchus and Mongols a large part of them became Chinese by now. They all own Chinese citizenship and retain their ethnic identity if they wish.
@Thak11 Kublai Khan was the Mongolian emperor who conquered China. Although Chinese and their king fought against the invaders to the end, they failed to defend their country and finally lost independence. Because of the success of Kublai Khan's conquest, all Chinese belonged to the 3rd class or the 4th class lower classes of Mongolian Yuan dynasty for a hundred years.
Do people know that many Mongol descendents in China are proud to be recognised as Chinese?
Many celebrities in Beijing today are of Mongol descent.
Kublai Khan was a Chinese Emperor He conferred Chinese Emperor title to Genghis Khan after Genghis death and after he himself became Chinese Emperor of Yuan Dynasty.Kublai became the Great Khan after his conquer of China where he got support as a power base.
After Genghis Khan unified Mongolia, Mongolian emperors invaded China and finally conquered there. They swept China from the map and enslaved Chinese. But shameless Chinese are saying that the Mongolian emperors actually admired Chinese and desired to be Chinese.
Invaders' history during their reigns in China, are also Chinese history because they took the Chinese Emperor throne in legitimacy. The Chinese ruler is sinitic or altai is no importance to the Chinese people because Zhong Hua Civilization is not based on ethicity origin but acceptance of Zhong Hua civilised culture.
Under such culture, different ehnicities are accepted as Chinese.
That is also why China has so much people because it absorbed blood from many other ethnicities.
Chinese have Sinitic origin that is totally different from Altaic origin and China was often conquered by various Altaic ethnic groups such as Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchens/Manchus, and Mongols. The invaders once conquered China and once retired to their homeland by turns.
By the way the invaders who conquered China were a part of greater Altaic group and even though some invaders left China and lost their identity when the invaders retired, it does not mean Chinese can steal the invaders' history.
@KoriSenbay fuck you stupid korean, Han is a great racial, u know shit about chinese history, if u don't know please shut fuck up, korea is a part of china in history and will be conquered by china again, u korean rubbish stop stealing chinese culture! where is korean face? under the ass?
@ghoststrider45 I am ashamed of our Manchu brothers in China not knowing the way history played out. Northern Han Chinese people were having political struggle and let the Manchus into the capital allowing them to become agents of China's future for over 200 years. In this time they burned literary works and rewrote many of them to their own liking. Our central focus should be to discipline the Manchus before they subjugate everyone including Koreans.
Not really, the Northern or Southern Hans were just slaves of Manchus. They were forced to wear Manchu clothing, hairstyle, and submit to Manchu decrees propagated by Manchu overlords.
@ghoststrider45 Manchu brothers and sister shame is so sad. They wished the Chinese would become just like Manchus when in actual fact deep down they wished to fit in with the Chinese. A two pronged approach which destroys the sense of community. Aggressively press their own culture upon other people and then re encode the historical truth to their Manchu liking in order to pass it off as Chinese. It's so sad no wonder other countries say China steal Manchu.
@ghoststrider45 Then they hide like cowards from the Japanese when they come to take it over eventually leading to Manchuko. A useless country of paramount insignificance. A country that needs China in order to justify stealing a lot of things but no China doesn't need to steal like cowards.
In short , almost all the other countries which were founded in Chinese territores their people all became Chinese. Donyi, Altai, Manchus, Mongol, Koguryo, Bohai, Khitan are no strangers of China. They are all one Chinese.
Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchens/Manchus, and Mongols conquered China without doubt and there were other ethnic groups who occupied and ruled some parts of China.
@KoriSenbay Chinese Han dynasty once submitted to Hunno (Xiongnu, which means Huns Empire) and nobody even don't know where the founder of Han dynasty comes from. Chinese Song dynasty submitted to Khitans Empire and Jurchens Kim dynasty. China had to pay an amount of tribute to the empires. Almost all the other countries which was founded in Chinese territory were not Chinese countries.
Likewise, Jurchens/Manchus, Senbi, Khitans, and Mongols were also strangers, foreigners, and invaders who lived in the east or in the north of China and who conquered China. Do not try to steal those Altaic people's history.
@KoriSenbay U understand how funny it is when u say other countries r conquered but Kor was not? It's laughable don't just look at the oversimplified Wiki and comment plz... u r making ppl laugh. A lot of the ppl u said never conquered Chin, they got a chunk of land through war doesn't mean they conquered Chin. The only two that actually conquered China were the Manchu and Mongol... so be critical about ur arguments. Don't try to make things up through ur imaginations.I mean just look at Kor
Chinese army did help. The army from South China took cannons they learned from the Portugese destroyed the defensive of the Japanese soldiers at Pyonyang.
That was a fact the Japanese soldiers gave up Pyonyang and retreated to the south.
The Koreans were not that great if they were capable enough they didn't have to invite Ming troops. Just common sense.
@Thak11 I didn't say that Chinese army didn't help. I said that Chinese army hardly helped Korea when Korean army killed over hundred thousand Japanese. Chinese commander was bribed and they often hindered Korean army in pincer operations and they even tried to negociate with the enemies for safe withdrawal of Japanese invaders. That's why Korean forces destroyed the retreating enemies to the end single-handedly.
The Han Chinese belong to the Austronesian genetic group, as proved by the 2009 study: "Mapping Human Genetic Diversity in Asia". This genome-wide genetic study is published in Science, which is the world's leading journal of scientific research.
Japanese researchers also found that the Han Chinese have the highest percentage of Negrito blood DNA marker afb1b3. The Negritos are classified as proto-Australoids. Japanese, Tibetans, Mongols, Koreans and Tungusic people have little to no afb1b3.
by some smart word play, the Kor successfully changed their role from the one being protected, to the one who was protecting in the Imjin war. And they sucessfully erased Ming troops from ppl's mind. They picture the Ming troops being lame and stupid, and often disappear in battles. However, this only exist in their imagination.
@canadianfirzen In some years later, they will say they won the Pacific war in WWII and not America lmao!! American troops will be erased from their minds haha.
In 1644 AD China was conquered by invaders again. Chinese lost their countries by Manchus invaders at that time. Therefore 100 years ago there was no Chinese country in the world. Don't forget.
@KoriSenbay There was never a Korea, even today a slave territory to America and China
100 years ago Korea was Japanese colony, before that Manchu colony, before that Chinese colony, before that Mongol colony, before that Chinese colony again.
@Seres1091 Every Korean knows that Japan annexed Korea in 1910 AD. By the way, it seems that many Chinese don't know there was no China in the world since Manchus conquered there. Manchus conquered China but they didn't Korea. Moreover Chinese never ruled Korea in history. I've never heard when Korea was ruled by Chinese.
@KoriSenbay Indeed China was conquered by Manchus but that is over now, today it is a new Han empire. Korea is still ruled by America and China together even today.
Everyone conquered Korea, everyone told Korea what to do and it bowed very low to the ground and listened shamelessly as a vassal (slave) state. China always had revenge against its conquerors like killing all Mongols south of great wall at start of Ming and most Manchus during ROC era. Koreans can not get such satisfaction. Sad.
@Seres1091 As your logic Japan once annexed Korea but that is over now. No Empire survived in the end. The point is that China was often conquered by various invaders such as Tongyis, Senbis, Jurchens, Mongols, and Manchus Empires.
@Seres1091 No one conquered Korea. Mongols conquered almost all countries such as Jurchens Kim dynasty and Chinese South Song dynasty but they were not able to conquer Korea. Manchus conquered Mongols, Chinese, Uighurs, and others but Korea survived.
@KoriSenbay Manchus didn't conquer Kor? sure....... just stop making excuses already. Kor clearly submitted and asked for forgiveness in both the Manchu war and the mongol war... Stop saying others r being conquered. China fought to the death and was forcefully taken over, while every time a war happens Korz would flee to islands like GwangHua.... Kor nationalists always accuse the Chin of everything, but they themselves r far more worse on a lot of things.... just bragging all the time troll
@canadianfirzen I know that some Chinese fought to the death and so many Chinese were slaughtered by invading Manchus armies when China was conquered at last. Chinese rullers were able to protect their people from invaders.
@canadianfirzen Although Manchus conquered China, they didn't conquer Korea and indeed they had no intention of conquering Korea. Manchus knew that it was impossible that they ruled Korean. Even 1 million invaders (total 3 million including noncombatants) of Senbi's Su dynasty were not able to conquer Korea. Although Mongols conquered almost all countries in northeast Asia, they were not conquer Korea.
@KoriSenbay They didn't need to conquer Korea physically, Koreans just gave up and stick @ss in air at first site of enemy; like to Japanese during 1592 - 1598 war and 1895, Koreans didn't even fight. Never heard of "Tongis" or "Senbis", are they your wet dream fantasies caused by nuclear waste dumping by America?
@Seres1091 During Korea-Japan Wars, over 300,000 Japanese invaded Korea twice. Although Japanese armies surprised Korean at the very early stage of the wars, they were severely damaged in battles (approx. half the invaders were killed in Korea) and moreover they were completely defeated in sea battles. Haven't you heard about Admiral Yi Soon-shin??? He even defeated 333 Japanese ships while his 13 ships lost nothing.
@Seres1091 Tongyi (東夷) and Senbi (鮮卑) were the people who lived in the east of China. Both once conquered China and ruled there. Sang (商) dynasty was Tongyi's country, Su (隋) and Tang (唐) dynasties were Senbi's country.
@KoriSenbay Koreans were conquered by Japanese during war 1592 - 1598, just like from 1895 - 1945, Ming liberated Korea; should of let those Japanese conquer them longer. All three Shang, Sui, Tang rulers had Han names, they are Han, go to Wikipedia, it say Chinese dynasties; the Korean were slave to all three dynasties. On the other hand, Gorgryeo, Silla, Baejke =/= Korean; they used Han letters for their names, not Hangul. Only Joseun is Hangul.
@Seres1091 For the Imjin war thing, a typical Kor scholar and Kor nationalist would say 'Kor got into war with Japan, because Kor refused the offer and protected China".They make themselves very heroic somehow, and they are based on assumption that Jap wanted to invade China but not Korea. It is very smart word play there. In a typical Kor nationalist mind, China intervened in Kor issue too much, and they r of no use. They deny any help from China, just like what NK do. So talking is useless
@Seres1091 Korean Joseon dynasty was founded in 1392 AD and lasted to 1910 AD. Japanese once invaded Korea in 1592 AD but they were completely defeated in 1598 AD. Actually Chinese army hardly helped Korea during the wars. Although at the last of the wars Ming China even tried to negotiate with Japan for safe withdrawal of Japanese armies, it was unacceptable for Korean and Korean forces destroyed the retreating enemy to the end single-handedly.
Although over 300,000 Japanese invaded Korea and the invaders surprised Korean at the very early stage of the wars, they were severely damaged in the battles (approx. half the invaders were killed) and moreover they were completely defeated in the sea battles. On the other hand, during the wars, Ming China hardly helped Korea and what was worse Ming armies even hindered Korean armies in pincer operations.
@KoriSenbay haha, I knew it! In a Kor mind, the Chin were cowardice and Chin secretly negotiated with Japan to seperate Kor without letting Korz know..... and was only stopped because Japan demanded a princess from China... Isn't it? How laughable Korz always purposely making Chin evil of some sort. Then tell me why Kor always urge Chin troops to fight on even though it is raining and gunpowder doesn't work?Kor destroyed the retreating enemy single-handedly I c...
@KoriSenbay During Imjin war, Kor didn't give a cent of supply; they urged Chin troops to move on while it is completely not wise to do so; and they often showed up when battle was over. And they talk about Chin making secrete contract with Japan to seperate Korea, which is completely unknown to the Chin side???
@Seres1091 No, Chinese historians even say that Sang dynasty was founded by Tongyi people. After Huns destroyed Chinese Jin dynasty, various nomadic and seminomadic invaders occupied northern China, they founded their own dynasties there. Senbi were one of them, Su and Tang dynasties were the Senbi invaders' countries.
@Seres1091 I'm not dependent on Wikipedia 100%. The site even states as if Mongols Yuan dynasty was actually a Chinese emperor. Mongols conquered China and Chinese lost their country during the colonial period.
@Seres1091 Korean were Tongyi and they defeated Senbi's Su and Tang armies but China was conquered by Tongyi and Senbi. When China submitted to Khitan Empire, Khitans wrested the northern territories from China and they forced China to offer an amount of tribute. On the other hand, Korea gained some territories at the result of the 1st Kori-Khitan Wars and moreover Khitans never invaded Korea again after almost all 100,000 Khitans invaders of main forces were killed in the 3rd Kori-Khitan Wars.
Korean was one of the Dongyis.Dongy and Sianbi were part of Chinese ancestries. Khitans are also part of present day Chinese.These different ethnicities accepted the Chinese culture , Zhonghua culture and became Chinese long time ago. It doesn't matter that they were Dongyi or Sianbi or Khitan to the Chinese as long as they accepted the Chinese ways. Ethincity difference is not that important to the Chinese.
@Thak11 I know Korean were members of Tongyi and moreover Tongyi, Senbi, and Khitan belonged to Altaic language speaking people whereas Chinese belong to Sinitic language speaking people. Therefore, Tongyi, Senbi, and Khitan's origins are totally different from Chinese. China once submitted to Khitans Empire and they were forced to pay an amount of tribute to the empire, China was even conquered by Tongyi's and Senbi's invaders. But Chinese must not try to steal the invaders' history.
@Thak11 The Altaic tribes who worshiped Dragon and Phoenix conquered China long time ago. Sang (商) was Tongyi invaders' country and Ju (周) was also an alien country. Both were not Chinese country, even though the invaders had a significant influence on Chinese culture.
@KoriSenbay Altaic?? wow even more lies..... just because u can't support ur lie at the beginning. U changed around to attack Chin?? u r just running in circles mate... don't make me laugh... ur arguments r never valid and they r based on Korism... How can others take u seriously? No wonder why ppl invented the word "Koreation", such words r used to describe ppl like u
@Thak11 hey friend ancient China didn't get influence from Korea. They r using this arbitrary word "东夷" to mess around the logic with u, everyone in the east were called Dong Yi. I mean everybody, even Chin themselves! Their arguments r weak, they often just play around with words, they can't even read Chin, yet they claim Chin history. Don't get fooled by them, they r trolls.
@canadianfirzen Chinese considered Tongyi as strangers. They were originally strangers and foreigners who lived in the east of China and the were originally invaders who conquered China. Do not try to steal Altaic people's history.
@KoriSenbay Who proved DongYi were Altaic? and Altaic =\= Kor, in addition Dongyi =\= Kor. In the whole world, only Kor consider DongYi to be specifically Kor thanks to Kors' propaganda.
@Seres1091 hey dude don't need to get real and angry with Kori, he just give u some lame arguments, and once u put evidence in his face, he will just repeat himself over and over. I tried to save him some face by keep making my arguments short, and not mentioning about Kor history, but he keep on luring me into some sort of argument. He just keeps on attacking on other races; he is just a complete racist. U don't need to actually take him too seriously, or else he will try blur the focus
@KoriSenbay Oh that's why the Huge Korean Country was a vassal state of Qing? U avoided to use the word "conquered". it is a very smart word play, but it won't alter the facts and outcome. In reality, Korea lost wars to both Mongols and the Manchus. "Manchus knew that it was impossible that they rule Korea", Ya, ya....
@canadianfirzen Although Manchus conquered China, they didn't Korea and indeed they had no intention of conquering Korea. Manchus rulers already knew that it was impossible that they ruled Korean and moreover over 1 million invaders (3 million including noncombatants) failed to conquer Korea.
Manchus' ambition was the dragon throne in Peking , not the king's seat in poor Korea which was a vassal to Ming. They fought a couple of battles with Chosen with victories.
Chosen did have ambitions in Liadong but they failed.
@Thak11 That's just funny. To build a great empire was not only Manchus ambition. China was often conquered by strangers such as Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchens, and Mongols. Manchus were one of the invaders and they conquered China like their ancestors did. But Manchus knew that no one conquered Korea. Even 1 million (total 3 million including noncombatants) failed to conquer Korea. Korea was an independent country and so Ming wasted too much money on Korea because China wanted to be called an empire.
@canadianfirzen Please study history... Kori defeated 1 million Senbi's invaders (total 3 million including noncombatants) and Korean were a part of Tongyi people. Actually the majority of Tongyi people were Korean. Although Mongols invaded Korea for 40 years they failed to occupy Korea at last. But China was conquered by Tongyi, Senbi, and Mongols. Although Manchus didn't conquer Korea they conquered China.
@KoriSenbay "Kori defeated 1 million Senbi invaders"... I guess it shows who need a history listen. "Kor were a "part" of Tongyi ppl" that explains all, I won't even have to argue. Then u run in circles again. Y repeating urself all the time? Give me valid arguments plz! Not some arguements out of ur mind which is full of holes!
@Thak11 Geez, don't you think that Chinese are just making a revenge without a doubt when they are trying to steal their neighborings' history such as Korean, Mongols, Uighurs, Tibetan, and others. How can they lay claim to Mongols Yuan, Korean Kori, Jurchens Kim dynasty, Manchus Qing, Senbi's Tang, and other foreign countries. It really makes your friends extremly angry. Chinese government ought to stop distorting history, even though China was plundered, exploited or even conquered by them.
@KoriSenbay hahaha, plz give me some valid proves of wat u say... u always make vague accusations that u r not even sure of.... U can't even read Chin, and u can't even prove what u say all the time. Yet, u r so resilient in terms of bragging
Intermarriage between Korean and Mongols was one of the main reasons why Korean cultural wave occured in Mongol and Mongols cultural wave occured in Korea.
@KoriSenbay and in between, mongols and koreans got fucked by the chinese either in ancient time or as of today...this 2 countries are just a little nations that tried to talk tough.
it was not marriages of convenience, those were not free choice marriages as today but arranged by the governments. Korean families back home didn't even want to register girl child born. Korean girls raped by Mongols went to lakes to cleanse the Mongol dirt symbolically.
The marriages between Mongol princess to Koryo prince/ king were political marriages just to stablize relationship between Mongol Yuan and Koryo but to the advantage of Yuan to exert control over the Koryo court.
@Thak11 When we talk about history it should be based on official history books, not on novels or fabrications. Acutally the people raped and slaughtered by Mongols were Chinese, Chinese failed to defend their country and were conquered by Mongols army. Only Chinese degenerated into lower classes. I know how you feel about it. Even though "Great" China was conquered by various invaders such as Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchen/Manchus, and Mongols but history should not be distorted.
I know Korean and Mongols, of course, married each other because Korean were foreigners in Mongols Yuan dynasty and they did not belong to any classes of Mongols empire.
Kublai Khan, the 1st emperor who called his empire "Yuan", married his daughter off to Korean prince of Kori dynasty. And the last empress of Mongols Yuan dynasty was a Korean woman.
There's nothing special.
On the other hand, it was inconceivable that the 3rd or the 4th lower classes Chinese married the 1st class Mongols.
There was actually a slave class in Yuan dynasty the 駒口, these people included poor Mongols North of the Great Wall who had no money or bankrupted just sold themselves/ family for money and accomodation.These were real slaves that can be bought or sold.
I did made a mistake. All Chinese historical records indicates 1 st class of Mongols, 2nd class of colored eye people from Middle / Western Asia , 3rd class of Hans (Hans in the North including Khitans, Bohais, Koryos, Jins, 4th class of Southern Hans( people of south Song) who was conquered by the Mongols lastest. This is my correction. There was a place for the sinicised Koryo in China as North Han. Mongol still subjugated Korea , where were all those Korean virgins go?
@Thak11 Khitan forced China to bring exorbitant tributes, they also occupied some territory, and Jurchens Kim dynasty conquered China and ruled northern Chinese before the rise of Genghis Khan. They once built up an empire and even made Mongolian nomads obey. But you know their empires were conquered by Mongols at last. Although some Jurchens and Khitans continuted to stay and were even sinicized in northern China since the fall of their empires, they were basically different from Chinese.
Kublai married his daughter off to Korean prince of Kori dynasty. If Mongols regarded Koris as the 3rd class, it was impossible. Jurchens, Khitans, and Chinese belonged to the class system of Mongols empire because they were conquered by Mongols and lost their countries. On the other hand, Mongols invaded Korea for 40 years but Korean defended their country and Korean Kori dynasty survived in the end. Korean were basically foreigners in Mongols Yuan dynasty.
Koryos living inside China (North East China) for a long time is different from Koryos inside southern Korean peninsula under the name of a different nation Koryo. Koryo has to send virgins to Mongol court as wives, concubines for the Mongol Emperor and high officials. Divorced or widowed women for the Mongol garrisons in Korean peninsula and elsewhere. Korean virgins has to registered by the Koryo government and has to get permission to marry if not selected for Mongol Yuan.
Khitans, Bohais, Koryos, Jins were eventually disappeared in Chinese records that means they were finally assimulated into Hans/Chinese inside China territories.
I don't respond to lies again. It is up to you to say those theories only believed without proof inside Korea. Outsie Korea , those theories were almost a farce.
After Mongols conquered most countries in the northeast Asian continent such as Jurchen (Kim) and China (Song) there were only two countries: Mongols Yuan and Korean Kori . There was no China or Chinese country on earth.
Mongols empire had rigidly hierarchical social structures. Mongols were Mongols, Koris were Korean, Jurchens were Jurchens. In Mongols empire Mongols and their brothers formed the ruling classes on the other hand Chinese and sinicized brothers formed the lower classes.
Those Koryo, Jin, Kithan were sinicised, so they were put into the category of 2nd class of Hans by the Mongol.That was what they all to be called "Han" not Korean nor Jin nor Klintan.
Based on the history book "The Origin of Manchus" written by the 7th emperor of Manchus empire, the emperor thought that Manchus empire was a successor state to Jurchens Kim dynasty and Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty. The book "The Origin of Manchus" is the history book about Manchus origin. Jurchens/Manchus never thought that they were Chinese. In their empire, the Manchus conquerors even prohibited Chinese from entering their sacred land, Manchuria.
After the collapse of the central government of Kori dynasty, Korean general founded Balhae dynasty. Malgals belonged to Korean countries such as Ancient Josen (Gojoseon) and Kori (Koguri) for thousands of years. When the general founded his empire all Malgals excepting Black River Malgals belonged to Korea. Black River Malgals were the northernmost Malgals, they lived around Black River (Amur River). After Korean Balhae dynasty conquered Black River Malgals all Malgals belonged to Korea again.
Bohai was a Mohe country. Russian and Chinese scholars generally agreed on this perspective. The Tombs of Bohai were initially found to be Mohe tombs mostly.
There was a Koguryo adminstrative class but the majority people of Bohai was Mohe.
Mongol Yuan regarded Koryo people in China as Han ethnic, also the descendents of Jin as Han too.
The "Origin of Manchu " should be renamed as "Originalities of Manchuria" because it is a book more of the history and geographical distributions of various tribes in Manchuria, not only Jurchens. Manchus consisted many ethnicities. Manchus barred entrance to their ancestral land not only Hans but also Joshen people and other ethnics. This restriction to Han was released end of Qing .
Actually Yuan put Goryeo, Jin, and Qidan as 2nd level in position of gov't. Even many Koreans were govern during Yuan. Chinese were seen as Southerners and low positioned.
@Hanul91 Khitans, Jurchens, and Chinese countries were conquered by Mongols invasions. Therefore, the people lost their country and belonged to the four classes of Mongols empire. But there was no place for Korean. You know that Mongols failed to conquer Korea in spite of the 40-year invasions and Korean defended their country.
"The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" is the official history book written by Mongolian historians in Mongols Yuan dynasty. And "The Origin of Manchu" was the official history book written by the 7th emperor and high-rank officials of Manchus empire. The conquerors obviously knew that Manchus origin was totally different from Chinese and they even prohibited Chinese from entering their sacred land.
from my point of view, i think this argue is nonsense, all they r talking about is based CHinese history book which is written in Chinese, manchu has already viewed theirselves as Chinese, CHinese this world is so stupid which is called by white people, because in our writing system Chinese is a generous name, it represents a culture, which is tolerant.
Manchuria especially southern Manchuria was Korean territory where Korean civilization and Korean people originated. Korean ruled there for thousands of years since Korean identiry formed and they were mainstream people. Malgal also lived there together and mixed with each other. But they were in the state of nature and just belonged to Korean countries as brave warriors for a long time.
When Korean Balhae was conquered by Khitan in 926, Korean lost northern Manchuria. Sine then Korean and Malgal started to be called Jurchen together. Even the term Jusin, Jurijin, Jurchen, Suksin, Sushen were derived from Korean Ancient Joseon dynasty.
Korean Kim family (paternal side of Kim's royal family) and Jurchen Wanan tribe (maternal) founded Kim dynasty in 1115 and they finally became Manchus. As time passes, Jurchens/Manchus (Malgal origin) became mainstream people within Manchuria.
@Thak11 Manchus were Altaic-origin people and their origin is totally different from Chinese. They once conquered and ruled China, Mongolia, and Uighur. But most of them, especially who live in Communist China, lost their identity. Manchurian Chinese are not Manchus anymore and that's why I say that Manchus disappeared from earth.
Based on the official history book "Kim's history (金史)" describing the history of Jurchens Kim dynasty (1115-1234), it say, "the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo. He was already sixty when he first migrated from Korea. But His older brother liked Buddhism and stayed in Korea, he said "I won't go with you but our descendants would meet each other some day." Not only Jurchen people's origin but even their dynasty's origin is related to Korean.
Well, I think you distort the opinion of Manchus and the 7th emperor of Manchus empire. According to Manchus official history book written by the emperor, Manchus were descendants of Jurchens and Jurchens consisted of Malgals and Korean. Korean and Jurchen/Manchus share the same origin and moreover they share the same mountain as their origin place.
Some of these ethnics might have migrated to Korean Peninsula but not vice versa as their ancestors were not from Korean Peninsula except Chosen Jok in the last hundred years from Korean Penisula.
Nearly all these ethnics have got their ancestral land in present day China.
PLS explain how these people disappeared? I have explained these people became Chinese, our records documented how these people became Chinese.
Some people returned to their homeland you said. OK , Buyeo is a native in Manchuria, so their descendents stayed there, Yemaek were from Hebei and Manchuria so they stayed there, Koguryans were mostly in Manchuria or re-located in China proper. Manchus/Jurchens were from Manchuria and Eastern Siberia it is their homeland.
Sianbi, Koguryo, Jurchen, Klitan, Buyeo, Bohai, Yemaek, Turkic tribes in North China, Iranian, Arabian, Jews and Manchus disappeared in China soil, where did they go ? These people all became Chinese- Han Chinese, Hui Chinese, Manchurian Chinese, Mongolian Chinese. Whenever a name of an ethniciy disappeared in history it means they were all slaughtered or they became or absorbed into another identity. People don't disappear suddenly in the air.
Some of the Altaic-origin groups such as Tongyi, Senbi, Khitan, Jurchen, Mongols, and Manchus conquered China and ruled Chinese. Where did they go? Of course, some returned to their home and the others disappeared when the lower classes such as Chinese gained independence.
Although some parts of the invaders disappeared, the others are still alive their home where Altaic-origin people live. You should remember that the invaders, for example Mongols, were not all Altaic-origin people.
I think that Koraen has the ability to inventing writing system. Although Chinese characters were derived from inscriptions on Oracle bones, Chinese used it for writing their language and pictographs itself has its limits, it's to hard to learn a great number of the characters. King Sejong hoped that his people easily expressed their thinking in their own way. That's why he invented Korean characters and the most advanced writing system.
Tongyi origin is different from Chinese. Some migrated into China and founded Sang dynasty. They ruled China and lived with Chinese. Oracle bone scipts are primitive pictographs and mostly the ruling classes used it to hear the answers to divination. First, it's wrong that Oracle bone scripts do not fit Altaic, Korean also used it. Second, It was long time ago (~11th century BC) when they used Oracle bones. Most people didn't know the existence of Oracle bones, even though they were Tongyi.
Oracle bones characters do not fit Altia language otherwise Altai language speaker would use Oracle Bones script for writing their language instead but they don't. That is also why Korean has to invent Hangul script to replace Classical Chinese. If you consider Korean to be Altai then it is illogical not to use Oracle bones script to represent Altai language. You are in a mess to put forth your theory. By the way the Dongyi in China are already Chinese or even Hans by now.
I've heard about "Northeast Project", "Northwest Project", and "Southwest Project" of Chinese government. It's obvious that Chinese even think they can change the origins of their neighboring races such as Korean, Manchus, Mongols, Turks, and others.
Altaic people and their countries (especially seminomadic such as Korean, Senbi, Khitan, and Jurchens/Manchus) traditioanlly had a great influence on Yo (요, 遼, Liao) Province for thousands of years and Mandarin was originally a minority dialect spoken in that area and deeply affected by Altaic language family.
Nurhachi unified Jurchens and Tungusic and Manchus organized Eight Banners. When they conquered Mongol and China they also organized Mongols Eight Banners and Chinese Eight Banners for the political purposes.
After Manchus army entered China Madarin became one of officaial languages of Manchus Empire.
Chinese language is often called Mandarin even today actually it's the result of colonialism by Manchus invaders.
@KoriSenbay Before Hangul was invented 500 hundred years ago, Koreans wrote using Chinese characters. Although spoken language of korean is in present-day considered "Altaic", it was originally Sino-tibetan. The grammar was totally from what korean's speak today. A korean cannot read Chinese classical text because grammatical structure was different. Korean spoke a language in ancient times, which is similar to Archaic Chinese. Korean language today is only 500 yrs old.
@WuTangtst Japanese do not have their own characters and they're still using Chinese characters in order to write their language. Even Hiragana and Katagana were derived from Chinese charagers. So you mean that Japanese language, for that reason, do not exist and it is Sino-Tibetan??? It's too silly.
Chinese characters were derived from inscriptions on Ancient Oracle bones used in Sang dynasty and Sang dynasty was founded by Tongyi (eastern foreigners) who conquered China. In this case we might can say that Chinese language was already affected by Altaic language long time ago but nobody would say that Chinese language belongs to Altaic because Sinitic origin is totally different from Altaic origin.
Even though Japanese are still using Chinese characters and Korean used Chinese characters in order to write their language, the origin of both languages have nothing to do with Sino-Tibetan.
Dongyi is part of Chinese ancestry no wonder about that. Oracle bones characters fit the Chinese Sinitic language perfectly well but not Altai language. If you think Dongyi was Altai (this is not proven) then I must say Dongyi was assimulated into Sinitic people to use Sinitic language instead.
@Thak11 Well, Tongyi were considered as foreigners who lived in the east of China. And I think you don't know where Oracle bones originated. When the people called Tongyi founded Sang dynasty in China, they brought Oracle bones to China. Oracle bones are not Chinese invetion.
...moreoever, Manchu identity exist as we speak of it. Look at the title of this video please. Also, Manchu culture, heritage, and food can be found in China. I can list at least four county's where this culture flourishes. So, please take back everything you just said there. Thank u.
This conversation is getting tiresome. Now lets just enjoy this video.
In conclusion, do you really think that the capital city of Korea was once written 漢城, which means City of Han Chinese? It's so silly. As your logic, Arahan are all Chinese because it's written 阿羅漢. Let me know you about the origin. The capital 漢城 (Han Fortress) was derived from 漢水 (Han River) and Han River was a written word of 'Arisu', a Korean sacred river. Han Fortress was the capital near to Arisu (Han River). It has nothing to do with Chinese.
@KoriSenbay The purpose of this analogy was not irritate Koreans. I just want to show you that words like "Han City" ( 漢城) can be used to mislead people. Your reaction shows exactly how a Chinese(Manchu or Han) reacts when you twist facts around such as guessing that Zhong Hua Culture (中華民族) was the basis for Han to over throw the imperial rule. Even if Qing dynasty was led by a Han emperor, peasants would still overthrow the dynasty giving rise to a new nationality called 中國人.
I think you should call to mind that Chinese characters are logogram and there are concepts of 訓讀 (the way of reading based on meaning) and 音讀 (based on sound). No characters represent any sound, so any character can have two or more sounds. That's why Korean, Chinese, and Japanese have their own sound in their language, even though it's the same character. So 'Arisu' can be written 漢水 in Korea and 'Toyotomi Hidiyoshi' was written 豊臣秀吉 in Japan. 漢 means 'Ari' not 'Chinese' in this case.
@KoriSenbay Urm....don't know what ur talking about! Yes, if i write in Chinese grammar to a person in Japan, they understand me. again, what is ur point?
The term 'Han Chinese' identity was formed in the 1st Han China dynasty (202 BC-8 AD). Han Chinese originated from Han China. Although Han Chinese culture had been already mixed by other invaders, there was a common origin based on Sino-Tibetan language family.
On the other hand, the term 中華民族 is actually like a delusion. There is no such a race in the world but in Chinese nationalist mind. It was coined and had been developed by not only Chinese patriots for national independence at the end of Manchus Empire but also Chinese communists. It has a thread of connection with 'One China Policy'. No Turks and Mongolian might think that they are Chinese but Most Chinese and other races are forced to be brainwashed in school by Chinese communist.
Mongols and Manchus belongs to Altaic. They are, of course, proud of being Altaic origin like Chinese are proud of being Chinese. You know Altaic origin is totally different from that of Sino-Tibetan. When Mongols and Manchus inavded China, destroyed Chinese counrty, and ruled Chinese for hundreds of years, they were just invaders. Mongols are espeically proud of being Mongols and they scorned Chinese basically, though Manchus didn't treat Chinese as Mongols did.
@KoriSenbay Again, 中華民族 or Zhong Hua, is a nationality identity of Qing. Fact is fact. I did not say it was a race. The Qing emperor of China insist on one nationality to be used for China. I suggest everyone type "Chinese" in wikipedia and you will see what I am talking about. As for Mongolians and Turkic people who live in China, they can choose to live in China and accept the Chinese nationality or live in other countries and be whatever nationality of their liking.
@WuTangtst Fact? What is fact? Again, the fact is that Manchus were Altaic-origin invaders and Chinese were Sinitic-origin farmers. Moreover, both languages have distinctly different grammatical structures. Manchurian is related to Northeast Asian language family and Chinese is close to Southeast Asian language family. Chinese first migrated toward northeast and started to live there and then Manchus once conquered and ruled Chinese as other invaders did.
@KoriSenbay As I said, Mongols scorned Chinese basically, but Manchus did not treat the conquered as Mongols did because Manchus wanted to last their empire as long as possible. That's why Manchus also organized both Mongols Eight banners and Chinese Eight Banners. Manchus officially supported both Mongols and Chinese especially northeastern provinces birth for the political porposes but it does not mean Chinese were (the same with) Manchus.
@KoriSenbay You are confused again. I did not say Manchu and Han are "the same" ethnic. The Emperor of China advocated 滿漢一家. But in modern times, it is not easy to tell a part a Manchus from Han. Many marry each other in China. A lot of us have at least one relative who is Manchu ethnic.
Han-Chinese/Han-Koreans both 'were' not 'the same' as Manchus. But in modern times, we are related because of family relations.
Ok If I made you confused, it's my fault. Again, Manchus also organized both Mongols and Chinese Eight Banners. Manchus empire officially supported both races especially northeastern provinces birth for the political purposes but it doesnt mean Chinese were the same position with Manchus. Manchus were invaders and conquer
Great
ForexReviewsCentral 2 months ago
I'm actually going to cmment on the video, which no one else sees to had done.
I read Pr. Di Cosima's book and found it very interesting; too bad the first three books of Dzengsheo's diary are lost.
As for the presentation, it seems that women has an agenda and is passively denouncing Pr. Di Cosima. Also, she uses the term "sefl-criticism" which sent chills down my spine. That expression is rhetoric of the Cultural Revolution and Maoist terror. Even at the end, she sounds sarcastic.
Mujangga 8 months ago
@Mujangga Hah that's because she is Manchu and has to ride a high horse in order to retain universalistically pretentious attitude towards the rest of Han Chinese who don't share her views necessarily. They always pretend to take the high road even when their rule was totally wrong. They did not conquer, Han Chinese let them in unlike the Mongol conquerors and they tried to encode Chinese culture in their favor by telling everyone to change dress and not write bad things about Manchus.
stimsWonderland 3 months ago
Also, KoriSenbay, aka realtruehistory, aka QingIsNotChina, is clearly not here in good will. Reading his comments under various videos, it's blatantly obvious he's here primarily to get under Chinese's skin and to promote Korean-centrism. He wants to make Chinese and other East Asians feel inferior to Koreans - that's his goal.
Lathdrinor 9 months ago
Dynasties like Sui, Tang, and Shang are widely acknowledged to be Chinese by international historians, including those who write the textbooks. There are people who refuse to accept these historians' views and who insist on their own, self-serving versions. But what's important is that Chinese are not fabricating anything, b/c the views are held internationally. Why bother with youtube when you can read credible historians? Those who learn their history from youtube shouldn't be trusted anyways.
Lathdrinor 9 months ago
Dongyi, Sianbi, Jurchens/Manchus and Mongols a large part of them became Chinese by now. They all own Chinese citizenship and retain their ethnic identity if they wish.
Thak11 11 months ago
Comment removed
kevinrosspo 11 months ago
@Thak11 Kublai Khan was the Mongolian emperor who conquered China. Although Chinese and their king fought against the invaders to the end, they failed to defend their country and finally lost independence. Because of the success of Kublai Khan's conquest, all Chinese belonged to the 3rd class or the 4th class lower classes of Mongolian Yuan dynasty for a hundred years.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Do people know that many Mongol descendents in China are proud to be recognised as Chinese?
Many celebrities in Beijing today are of Mongol descent.
Kublai Khan was a Chinese Emperor He conferred Chinese Emperor title to Genghis Khan after Genghis death and after he himself became Chinese Emperor of Yuan Dynasty.Kublai became the Great Khan after his conquer of China where he got support as a power base.
Thak11 1 year ago
After Genghis Khan unified Mongolia, Mongolian emperors invaded China and finally conquered there. They swept China from the map and enslaved Chinese. But shameless Chinese are saying that the Mongolian emperors actually admired Chinese and desired to be Chinese.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago 2
Being Han Chinese is also a cultural identity as nobody can say now that they are pure Chinese Han similar to that in Han dynasty.
Thak11 1 year ago
Invaders' history during their reigns in China, are also Chinese history because they took the Chinese Emperor throne in legitimacy. The Chinese ruler is sinitic or altai is no importance to the Chinese people because Zhong Hua Civilization is not based on ethicity origin but acceptance of Zhong Hua civilised culture.
Under such culture, different ehnicities are accepted as Chinese.
That is also why China has so much people because it absorbed blood from many other ethnicities.
Thak11 1 year ago
Chinese have Sinitic origin that is totally different from Altaic origin and China was often conquered by various Altaic ethnic groups such as Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchens/Manchus, and Mongols. The invaders once conquered China and once retired to their homeland by turns.
By the way the invaders who conquered China were a part of greater Altaic group and even though some invaders left China and lost their identity when the invaders retired, it does not mean Chinese can steal the invaders' history.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay fuck you stupid korean, Han is a great racial, u know shit about chinese history, if u don't know please shut fuck up, korea is a part of china in history and will be conquered by china again, u korean rubbish stop stealing chinese culture! where is korean face? under the ass?
---->weak korea<--------.:)
kevinrosspo 11 months ago
@kevinrosspo
China was a target of Nomadic and Foreign invadors, most of them were successful, don't hide the truth!
ghoststrider45 5 months ago
@ghoststrider45 I am ashamed of our Manchu brothers in China not knowing the way history played out. Northern Han Chinese people were having political struggle and let the Manchus into the capital allowing them to become agents of China's future for over 200 years. In this time they burned literary works and rewrote many of them to their own liking. Our central focus should be to discipline the Manchus before they subjugate everyone including Koreans.
stimsWonderland 3 months ago
@stimsWonderland
Not really, the Northern or Southern Hans were just slaves of Manchus. They were forced to wear Manchu clothing, hairstyle, and submit to Manchu decrees propagated by Manchu overlords.
ghoststrider45 3 months ago
@ghoststrider45 Manchu brothers and sister shame is so sad. They wished the Chinese would become just like Manchus when in actual fact deep down they wished to fit in with the Chinese. A two pronged approach which destroys the sense of community. Aggressively press their own culture upon other people and then re encode the historical truth to their Manchu liking in order to pass it off as Chinese. It's so sad no wonder other countries say China steal Manchu.
stimsWonderland 3 months ago
@stimsWonderland
Funny how Manchus made their own country and conquered China.
ghoststrider45 3 months ago
@ghoststrider45 Then they hide like cowards from the Japanese when they come to take it over eventually leading to Manchuko. A useless country of paramount insignificance. A country that needs China in order to justify stealing a lot of things but no China doesn't need to steal like cowards.
stimsWonderland 3 months ago
In short , almost all the other countries which were founded in Chinese territores their people all became Chinese. Donyi, Altai, Manchus, Mongol, Koguryo, Bohai, Khitan are no strangers of China. They are all one Chinese.
Thak11 1 year ago
Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchens/Manchus, and Mongols conquered China without doubt and there were other ethnic groups who occupied and ruled some parts of China.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Chinese Han dynasty once submitted to Hunno (Xiongnu, which means Huns Empire) and nobody even don't know where the founder of Han dynasty comes from. Chinese Song dynasty submitted to Khitans Empire and Jurchens Kim dynasty. China had to pay an amount of tribute to the empires. Almost all the other countries which was founded in Chinese territory were not Chinese countries.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Likewise, Jurchens/Manchus, Senbi, Khitans, and Mongols were also strangers, foreigners, and invaders who lived in the east or in the north of China and who conquered China. Do not try to steal those Altaic people's history.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay In fact, before Kor's unification, Shilla and Baekjie r different countries. So wat??? It's political.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay U understand how funny it is when u say other countries r conquered but Kor was not? It's laughable don't just look at the oversimplified Wiki and comment plz... u r making ppl laugh. A lot of the ppl u said never conquered Chin, they got a chunk of land through war doesn't mean they conquered Chin. The only two that actually conquered China were the Manchu and Mongol... so be critical about ur arguments. Don't try to make things up through ur imaginations.I mean just look at Kor
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
Chinese army did help. The army from South China took cannons they learned from the Portugese destroyed the defensive of the Japanese soldiers at Pyonyang.
That was a fact the Japanese soldiers gave up Pyonyang and retreated to the south.
The Koreans were not that great if they were capable enough they didn't have to invite Ming troops. Just common sense.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 I didn't say that Chinese army didn't help. I said that Chinese army hardly helped Korea when Korean army killed over hundred thousand Japanese. Chinese commander was bribed and they often hindered Korean army in pincer operations and they even tried to negociate with the enemies for safe withdrawal of Japanese invaders. That's why Korean forces destroyed the retreating enemies to the end single-handedly.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Han Chinese belong to the Austronesian genetic group, as proved by the 2009 study: "Mapping Human Genetic Diversity in Asia". This genome-wide genetic study is published in Science, which is the world's leading journal of scientific research.
Japanese researchers also found that the Han Chinese have the highest percentage of Negrito blood DNA marker afb1b3. The Negritos are classified as proto-Australoids. Japanese, Tibetans, Mongols, Koreans and Tungusic people have little to no afb1b3.
AltaicCivilization 1 year ago
@AltaicCivilization
What are you aim at? Is it all that is important somebody gets more or less Negrito essense in their blood.
Dumbass.
Thak11 1 year ago
by some smart word play, the Kor successfully changed their role from the one being protected, to the one who was protecting in the Imjin war. And they sucessfully erased Ming troops from ppl's mind. They picture the Ming troops being lame and stupid, and often disappear in battles. However, this only exist in their imagination.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen In some years later, they will say they won the Pacific war in WWII and not America lmao!! American troops will be erased from their minds haha.
Seres1091 1 year ago
@Seres1091 u see this bragger repeated himself again...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Lol he just goes in circles. But he has nothing to brag!!! XD
Don't even look at the past, look at present; China is free nation, while Korea is still slave!!!
Seres1091 1 year ago
In 1644 AD China was conquered by invaders again. Chinese lost their countries by Manchus invaders at that time. Therefore 100 years ago there was no Chinese country in the world. Don't forget.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay There was never a Korea, even today a slave territory to America and China
100 years ago Korea was Japanese colony, before that Manchu colony, before that Chinese colony, before that Mongol colony, before that Chinese colony again.
Seres1091 1 year ago
@Seres1091 Every Korean knows that Japan annexed Korea in 1910 AD. By the way, it seems that many Chinese don't know there was no China in the world since Manchus conquered there. Manchus conquered China but they didn't Korea. Moreover Chinese never ruled Korea in history. I've never heard when Korea was ruled by Chinese.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Indeed China was conquered by Manchus but that is over now, today it is a new Han empire. Korea is still ruled by America and China together even today.
Everyone conquered Korea, everyone told Korea what to do and it bowed very low to the ground and listened shamelessly as a vassal (slave) state. China always had revenge against its conquerors like killing all Mongols south of great wall at start of Ming and most Manchus during ROC era. Koreans can not get such satisfaction. Sad.
Seres1091 1 year ago
@Seres1091 As your logic Japan once annexed Korea but that is over now. No Empire survived in the end. The point is that China was often conquered by various invaders such as Tongyis, Senbis, Jurchens, Mongols, and Manchus Empires.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@Seres1091 No one conquered Korea. Mongols conquered almost all countries such as Jurchens Kim dynasty and Chinese South Song dynasty but they were not able to conquer Korea. Manchus conquered Mongols, Chinese, Uighurs, and others but Korea survived.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Manchus didn't conquer Kor? sure....... just stop making excuses already. Kor clearly submitted and asked for forgiveness in both the Manchu war and the mongol war... Stop saying others r being conquered. China fought to the death and was forcefully taken over, while every time a war happens Korz would flee to islands like GwangHua.... Kor nationalists always accuse the Chin of everything, but they themselves r far more worse on a lot of things.... just bragging all the time troll
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen I know that some Chinese fought to the death and so many Chinese were slaughtered by invading Manchus armies when China was conquered at last. Chinese rullers were able to protect their people from invaders.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Although Manchus conquered China, they didn't conquer Korea and indeed they had no intention of conquering Korea. Manchus knew that it was impossible that they ruled Korean. Even 1 million invaders (total 3 million including noncombatants) of Senbi's Su dynasty were not able to conquer Korea. Although Mongols conquered almost all countries in northeast Asia, they were not conquer Korea.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay They didn't need to conquer Korea physically, Koreans just gave up and stick @ss in air at first site of enemy; like to Japanese during 1592 - 1598 war and 1895, Koreans didn't even fight. Never heard of "Tongis" or "Senbis", are they your wet dream fantasies caused by nuclear waste dumping by America?
Seres1091 1 year ago
@Seres1091 During Korea-Japan Wars, over 300,000 Japanese invaded Korea twice. Although Japanese armies surprised Korean at the very early stage of the wars, they were severely damaged in battles (approx. half the invaders were killed in Korea) and moreover they were completely defeated in sea battles. Haven't you heard about Admiral Yi Soon-shin??? He even defeated 333 Japanese ships while his 13 ships lost nothing.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@Seres1091 Tongyi (東夷) and Senbi (鮮卑) were the people who lived in the east of China. Both once conquered China and ruled there. Sang (商) dynasty was Tongyi's country, Su (隋) and Tang (唐) dynasties were Senbi's country.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Koreans were conquered by Japanese during war 1592 - 1598, just like from 1895 - 1945, Ming liberated Korea; should of let those Japanese conquer them longer. All three Shang, Sui, Tang rulers had Han names, they are Han, go to Wikipedia, it say Chinese dynasties; the Korean were slave to all three dynasties. On the other hand, Gorgryeo, Silla, Baejke =/= Korean; they used Han letters for their names, not Hangul. Only Joseun is Hangul.
Seres1091 1 year ago
@Seres1091 For the Imjin war thing, a typical Kor scholar and Kor nationalist would say 'Kor got into war with Japan, because Kor refused the offer and protected China".They make themselves very heroic somehow, and they are based on assumption that Jap wanted to invade China but not Korea. It is very smart word play there. In a typical Kor nationalist mind, China intervened in Kor issue too much, and they r of no use. They deny any help from China, just like what NK do. So talking is useless
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Seres1091 Korean Joseon dynasty was founded in 1392 AD and lasted to 1910 AD. Japanese once invaded Korea in 1592 AD but they were completely defeated in 1598 AD. Actually Chinese army hardly helped Korea during the wars. Although at the last of the wars Ming China even tried to negotiate with Japan for safe withdrawal of Japanese armies, it was unacceptable for Korean and Korean forces destroyed the retreating enemy to the end single-handedly.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Although over 300,000 Japanese invaded Korea and the invaders surprised Korean at the very early stage of the wars, they were severely damaged in the battles (approx. half the invaders were killed) and moreover they were completely defeated in the sea battles. On the other hand, during the wars, Ming China hardly helped Korea and what was worse Ming armies even hindered Korean armies in pincer operations.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay haha, I knew it! In a Kor mind, the Chin were cowardice and Chin secretly negotiated with Japan to seperate Kor without letting Korz know..... and was only stopped because Japan demanded a princess from China... Isn't it? How laughable Korz always purposely making Chin evil of some sort. Then tell me why Kor always urge Chin troops to fight on even though it is raining and gunpowder doesn't work?Kor destroyed the retreating enemy single-handedly I c...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay During Imjin war, Kor didn't give a cent of supply; they urged Chin troops to move on while it is completely not wise to do so; and they often showed up when battle was over. And they talk about Chin making secrete contract with Japan to seperate Korea, which is completely unknown to the Chin side???
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Seres1091 No, Chinese historians even say that Sang dynasty was founded by Tongyi people. After Huns destroyed Chinese Jin dynasty, various nomadic and seminomadic invaders occupied northern China, they founded their own dynasties there. Senbi were one of them, Su and Tang dynasties were the Senbi invaders' countries.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@Seres1091 I'm not dependent on Wikipedia 100%. The site even states as if Mongols Yuan dynasty was actually a Chinese emperor. Mongols conquered China and Chinese lost their country during the colonial period.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@Seres1091 Korean were Tongyi and they defeated Senbi's Su and Tang armies but China was conquered by Tongyi and Senbi. When China submitted to Khitan Empire, Khitans wrested the northern territories from China and they forced China to offer an amount of tribute. On the other hand, Korea gained some territories at the result of the 1st Kori-Khitan Wars and moreover Khitans never invaded Korea again after almost all 100,000 Khitans invaders of main forces were killed in the 3rd Kori-Khitan Wars.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Korean was one of the Dongyis.Dongy and Sianbi were part of Chinese ancestries. Khitans are also part of present day Chinese.These different ethnicities accepted the Chinese culture , Zhonghua culture and became Chinese long time ago. It doesn't matter that they were Dongyi or Sianbi or Khitan to the Chinese as long as they accepted the Chinese ways. Ethincity difference is not that important to the Chinese.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 I know Korean were members of Tongyi and moreover Tongyi, Senbi, and Khitan belonged to Altaic language speaking people whereas Chinese belong to Sinitic language speaking people. Therefore, Tongyi, Senbi, and Khitan's origins are totally different from Chinese. China once submitted to Khitans Empire and they were forced to pay an amount of tribute to the empire, China was even conquered by Tongyi's and Senbi's invaders. But Chinese must not try to steal the invaders' history.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
China is a combination of Dragon and Pheonix totem. China is a combination of Chou (Yellow River dragon) and Shang (East China pheonix).
China culture is also a descendent of Dongyi culture, not only Korea.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 The Altaic tribes who worshiped Dragon and Phoenix conquered China long time ago. Sang (商) was Tongyi invaders' country and Ju (周) was also an alien country. Both were not Chinese country, even though the invaders had a significant influence on Chinese culture.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Altaic?? wow even more lies..... just because u can't support ur lie at the beginning. U changed around to attack Chin?? u r just running in circles mate... don't make me laugh... ur arguments r never valid and they r based on Korism... How can others take u seriously? No wonder why ppl invented the word "Koreation", such words r used to describe ppl like u
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Thak11 hey friend ancient China didn't get influence from Korea. They r using this arbitrary word "东夷" to mess around the logic with u, everyone in the east were called Dong Yi. I mean everybody, even Chin themselves! Their arguments r weak, they often just play around with words, they can't even read Chin, yet they claim Chin history. Don't get fooled by them, they r trolls.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Chinese considered Tongyi as strangers. They were originally strangers and foreigners who lived in the east of China and the were originally invaders who conquered China. Do not try to steal Altaic people's history.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Who proved DongYi were Altaic? and Altaic =\= Kor, in addition Dongyi =\= Kor. In the whole world, only Kor consider DongYi to be specifically Kor thanks to Kors' propaganda.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Korea right now is occupied and enslaved by both America and China, this is its destiny forever.
Seres1091 1 year ago
@Seres1091 hey dude don't need to get real and angry with Kori, he just give u some lame arguments, and once u put evidence in his face, he will just repeat himself over and over. I tried to save him some face by keep making my arguments short, and not mentioning about Kor history, but he keep on luring me into some sort of argument. He just keeps on attacking on other races; he is just a complete racist. U don't need to actually take him too seriously, or else he will try blur the focus
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Haha, I agree, he is mad that he's still a slave
Seres1091 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Oh that's why the Huge Korean Country was a vassal state of Qing? U avoided to use the word "conquered". it is a very smart word play, but it won't alter the facts and outcome. In reality, Korea lost wars to both Mongols and the Manchus. "Manchus knew that it was impossible that they rule Korea", Ya, ya....
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Although Manchus conquered China, they didn't Korea and indeed they had no intention of conquering Korea. Manchus rulers already knew that it was impossible that they ruled Korean and moreover over 1 million invaders (3 million including noncombatants) failed to conquer Korea.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Manchus' ambition was the dragon throne in Peking , not the king's seat in poor Korea which was a vassal to Ming. They fought a couple of battles with Chosen with victories.
Chosen did have ambitions in Liadong but they failed.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 That's just funny. To build a great empire was not only Manchus ambition. China was often conquered by strangers such as Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchens, and Mongols. Manchus were one of the invaders and they conquered China like their ancestors did. But Manchus knew that no one conquered Korea. Even 1 million (total 3 million including noncombatants) failed to conquer Korea. Korea was an independent country and so Ming wasted too much money on Korea because China wanted to be called an empire.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay That's funny... Kor always submits without fighting to Senbei, Tongyi, Jurchens, and mongols.
Even 1 million (total 3 million including noncombatants) failed to conquer Korea.
--------------------------------------------------------------
what a lame argument that is...
we all agree that Ming wasted money on Korea. Ming wanted to be called empire?? Ha, don't make me laugh......
why don't u tell me how did the Kor win over Mongol, Manchu?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Please study history... Kori defeated 1 million Senbi's invaders (total 3 million including noncombatants) and Korean were a part of Tongyi people. Actually the majority of Tongyi people were Korean. Although Mongols invaded Korea for 40 years they failed to occupy Korea at last. But China was conquered by Tongyi, Senbi, and Mongols. Although Manchus didn't conquer Korea they conquered China.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay "Kori defeated 1 million Senbi invaders"... I guess it shows who need a history listen. "Kor were a "part" of Tongyi ppl" that explains all, I won't even have to argue. Then u run in circles again. Y repeating urself all the time? Give me valid arguments plz! Not some arguements out of ur mind which is full of holes!
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
LOL these Korean trolls are quite resilient, they just don't stop do they? Are you guys still mad that China split your country in two?
ILike2DrinkAlot 1 year ago
for people who posted shit on this page, i might ask you how many of u have been to machuria?
kobe19851 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Do you know how foreign labourers suffered working in present day Korea?
Including the Mongols exploited. The Koreans may be making a revenge.
Remember the famous Korean hate culture.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 Geez, don't you think that Chinese are just making a revenge without a doubt when they are trying to steal their neighborings' history such as Korean, Mongols, Uighurs, Tibetan, and others. How can they lay claim to Mongols Yuan, Korean Kori, Jurchens Kim dynasty, Manchus Qing, Senbi's Tang, and other foreign countries. It really makes your friends extremly angry. Chinese government ought to stop distorting history, even though China was plundered, exploited or even conquered by them.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay u r hater and racist ignorant
kietpan 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay u r hater and racist ignorant koreans are no different than the japs...u r all racists and ignorant.
kietpan 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay hahaha, plz give me some valid proves of wat u say... u always make vague accusations that u r not even sure of.... U can't even read Chin, and u can't even prove what u say all the time. Yet, u r so resilient in terms of bragging
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
Intermarriage between Korean and Mongols was one of the main reasons why Korean cultural wave occured in Mongol and Mongols cultural wave occured in Korea.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay and in between, mongols and koreans got fucked by the chinese either in ancient time or as of today...this 2 countries are just a little nations that tried to talk tough.
kietpan 1 year ago 2
@KoriSenbay
it was not marriages of convenience, those were not free choice marriages as today but arranged by the governments. Korean families back home didn't even want to register girl child born. Korean girls raped by Mongols went to lakes to cleanse the Mongol dirt symbolically.
The marriages between Mongol princess to Koryo prince/ king were political marriages just to stablize relationship between Mongol Yuan and Koryo but to the advantage of Yuan to exert control over the Koryo court.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 When we talk about history it should be based on official history books, not on novels or fabrications. Acutally the people raped and slaughtered by Mongols were Chinese, Chinese failed to defend their country and were conquered by Mongols army. Only Chinese degenerated into lower classes. I know how you feel about it. Even though "Great" China was conquered by various invaders such as Tongyi, Senbi, Jurchen/Manchus, and Mongols but history should not be distorted.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Don't shift the subject, these happenings were recorded by Koreans otherwise how can we know as a foreigner.
Thak11 1 year ago
I know Korean and Mongols, of course, married each other because Korean were foreigners in Mongols Yuan dynasty and they did not belong to any classes of Mongols empire.
Kublai Khan, the 1st emperor who called his empire "Yuan", married his daughter off to Korean prince of Kori dynasty. And the last empress of Mongols Yuan dynasty was a Korean woman.
There's nothing special.
On the other hand, it was inconceivable that the 3rd or the 4th lower classes Chinese married the 1st class Mongols.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
You're still trying to distort history, but marriages of convenience were not special in the past. Again there's nothing special.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
There was actually a slave class in Yuan dynasty the 駒口, these people included poor Mongols North of the Great Wall who had no money or bankrupted just sold themselves/ family for money and accomodation.These were real slaves that can be bought or sold.
Thak11 1 year ago
I just forget the 2nd class of Colored Eye People.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 You should not tell a lie. In Mongols Yuan dynasty,
The 1st class (ruling class) was for Mongols,
The 2nd class (executive class) was for non-Chinese (central Asian such Turks),
The 3rd class (lower class) was for Han Chinese (northern Chinese), and
The 4th class (slavery class) was for southern Chinese.
Actually almost all Chinese were nothing but slaves during the colonial period.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
I did made a mistake. All Chinese historical records indicates 1 st class of Mongols, 2nd class of colored eye people from Middle / Western Asia , 3rd class of Hans (Hans in the North including Khitans, Bohais, Koryos, Jins, 4th class of Southern Hans( people of south Song) who was conquered by the Mongols lastest. This is my correction. There was a place for the sinicised Koryo in China as North Han. Mongol still subjugated Korea , where were all those Korean virgins go?
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 Everyone makes a mistake but you still tell a lie. According to "The History of Yuan",
"夢古人" (Mongolian) were the 1st class,
"色目人" (non-Chinese such as Tibetan, Turks, Uighur, and Arabian) were the 2nd class,
"漢人" (Han Chinese) were the 3rd class,
"南人" (southern Chinese) were the 4th class.
The official history book clearly states that the 3rd class is "漢人" (Han Chinese). You should not distort history.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@Thak11 Khitan forced China to bring exorbitant tributes, they also occupied some territory, and Jurchens Kim dynasty conquered China and ruled northern Chinese before the rise of Genghis Khan. They once built up an empire and even made Mongolian nomads obey. But you know their empires were conquered by Mongols at last. Although some Jurchens and Khitans continuted to stay and were even sinicized in northern China since the fall of their empires, they were basically different from Chinese.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Kublai married his daughter off to Korean prince of Kori dynasty. If Mongols regarded Koris as the 3rd class, it was impossible. Jurchens, Khitans, and Chinese belonged to the class system of Mongols empire because they were conquered by Mongols and lost their countries. On the other hand, Mongols invaded Korea for 40 years but Korean defended their country and Korean Kori dynasty survived in the end. Korean were basically foreigners in Mongols Yuan dynasty.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Koryos living inside China (North East China) for a long time is different from Koryos inside southern Korean peninsula under the name of a different nation Koryo. Koryo has to send virgins to Mongol court as wives, concubines for the Mongol Emperor and high officials. Divorced or widowed women for the Mongol garrisons in Korean peninsula and elsewhere. Korean virgins has to registered by the Koryo government and has to get permission to marry if not selected for Mongol Yuan.
Thak11 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Khitans, Bohais, Koryos, Jins were eventually disappeared in Chinese records that means they were finally assimulated into Hans/Chinese inside China territories.
Thak11 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay 南人 is just an abbreviation for South Hans or South Chinese, the people of South Song, conquered at last.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Hanul91
I don't respond to lies again. It is up to you to say those theories only believed without proof inside Korea. Outsie Korea , those theories were almost a farce.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11
Just research or google it if you think I'm lieing.
Hanul91 1 year ago
I don't know why but I made a mistake. He's the 6th emperor of Manchus empire, who wrote "The Origin of Manchu".
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
After Mongols conquered most countries in the northeast Asian continent such as Jurchen (Kim) and China (Song) there were only two countries: Mongols Yuan and Korean Kori . There was no China or Chinese country on earth.
Mongols empire had rigidly hierarchical social structures. Mongols were Mongols, Koris were Korean, Jurchens were Jurchens. In Mongols empire Mongols and their brothers formed the ruling classes on the other hand Chinese and sinicized brothers formed the lower classes.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay A korean dream
Seres1091 1 year ago
@Seres1091
So what, it is true Jin dynasty was Korean, even Manchu professors know that.
Hanul91 1 year ago
Those Koryo, Jin, Kithan were sinicised, so they were put into the category of 2nd class of Hans by the Mongol.That was what they all to be called "Han" not Korean nor Jin nor Klintan.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11
I don't know what you mean Sincized???? Hans were never put in same category as Northerners. ^^
Hanul91 1 year ago
Based on the history book "The Origin of Manchus" written by the 7th emperor of Manchus empire, the emperor thought that Manchus empire was a successor state to Jurchens Kim dynasty and Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty. The book "The Origin of Manchus" is the history book about Manchus origin. Jurchens/Manchus never thought that they were Chinese. In their empire, the Manchus conquerors even prohibited Chinese from entering their sacred land, Manchuria.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
After the collapse of the central government of Kori dynasty, Korean general founded Balhae dynasty. Malgals belonged to Korean countries such as Ancient Josen (Gojoseon) and Kori (Koguri) for thousands of years. When the general founded his empire all Malgals excepting Black River Malgals belonged to Korea. Black River Malgals were the northernmost Malgals, they lived around Black River (Amur River). After Korean Balhae dynasty conquered Black River Malgals all Malgals belonged to Korea again.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Bohai was a Mohe country. Russian and Chinese scholars generally agreed on this perspective. The Tombs of Bohai were initially found to be Mohe tombs mostly.
There was a Koguryo adminstrative class but the majority people of Bohai was Mohe.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11
Russians never agreed to Balhae as Mohe, Mohe consist the majority of population but rulers were indeed Korean, the same for Jin dynasty.
Hanul91 1 year ago
Mongol Yuan regarded Koryo people in China as Han ethnic, also the descendents of Jin as Han too.
The "Origin of Manchu " should be renamed as "Originalities of Manchuria" because it is a book more of the history and geographical distributions of various tribes in Manchuria, not only Jurchens. Manchus consisted many ethnicities. Manchus barred entrance to their ancestral land not only Hans but also Joshen people and other ethnics. This restriction to Han was released end of Qing .
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11
Actually Yuan put Goryeo, Jin, and Qidan as 2nd level in position of gov't. Even many Koreans were govern during Yuan. Chinese were seen as Southerners and low positioned.
Hanul91 1 year ago
@Hanul91 Khitans, Jurchens, and Chinese countries were conquered by Mongols invasions. Therefore, the people lost their country and belonged to the four classes of Mongols empire. But there was no place for Korean. You know that Mongols failed to conquer Korea in spite of the 40-year invasions and Korean defended their country.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
"The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" is the official history book written by Mongolian historians in Mongols Yuan dynasty. And "The Origin of Manchu" was the official history book written by the 7th emperor and high-rank officials of Manchus empire. The conquerors obviously knew that Manchus origin was totally different from Chinese and they even prohibited Chinese from entering their sacred land.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
from my point of view, i think this argue is nonsense, all they r talking about is based CHinese history book which is written in Chinese, manchu has already viewed theirselves as Chinese, CHinese this world is so stupid which is called by white people, because in our writing system Chinese is a generous name, it represents a culture, which is tolerant.
woshitianshihahahaha 1 year ago
@gookkimchitoilet I don't think so.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
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Manchuria especially southern Manchuria was Korean territory where Korean civilization and Korean people originated. Korean ruled there for thousands of years since Korean identiry formed and they were mainstream people. Malgal also lived there together and mixed with each other. But they were in the state of nature and just belonged to Korean countries as brave warriors for a long time.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
When Korean Balhae was conquered by Khitan in 926, Korean lost northern Manchuria. Sine then Korean and Malgal started to be called Jurchen together. Even the term Jusin, Jurijin, Jurchen, Suksin, Sushen were derived from Korean Ancient Joseon dynasty.
Korean Kim family (paternal side of Kim's royal family) and Jurchen Wanan tribe (maternal) founded Kim dynasty in 1115 and they finally became Manchus. As time passes, Jurchens/Manchus (Malgal origin) became mainstream people within Manchuria.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
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@Thak11 Manchus were Altaic-origin people and their origin is totally different from Chinese. They once conquered and ruled China, Mongolia, and Uighur. But most of them, especially who live in Communist China, lost their identity. Manchurian Chinese are not Manchus anymore and that's why I say that Manchus disappeared from earth.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Based on the official history book "Kim's history (金史)" describing the history of Jurchens Kim dynasty (1115-1234), it say, "the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo. He was already sixty when he first migrated from Korea. But His older brother liked Buddhism and stayed in Korea, he said "I won't go with you but our descendants would meet each other some day." Not only Jurchen people's origin but even their dynasty's origin is related to Korean.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Well, I think you distort the opinion of Manchus and the 7th emperor of Manchus empire. According to Manchus official history book written by the emperor, Manchus were descendants of Jurchens and Jurchens consisted of Malgals and Korean. Korean and Jurchen/Manchus share the same origin and moreover they share the same mountain as their origin place.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
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Some of these ethnics might have migrated to Korean Peninsula but not vice versa as their ancestors were not from Korean Peninsula except Chosen Jok in the last hundred years from Korean Penisula.
Nearly all these ethnics have got their ancestral land in present day China.
And they are all Chinese.
Thak11 1 year ago
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@KoriSenbay
PLS explain how these people disappeared? I have explained these people became Chinese, our records documented how these people became Chinese.
Some people returned to their homeland you said. OK , Buyeo is a native in Manchuria, so their descendents stayed there, Yemaek were from Hebei and Manchuria so they stayed there, Koguryans were mostly in Manchuria or re-located in China proper. Manchus/Jurchens were from Manchuria and Eastern Siberia it is their homeland.
Thak11 1 year ago
@MGLomerta
Sianbi, Koguryo, Jurchen, Klitan, Buyeo, Bohai, Yemaek, Turkic tribes in North China, Iranian, Arabian, Jews and Manchus disappeared in China soil, where did they go ? These people all became Chinese- Han Chinese, Hui Chinese, Manchurian Chinese, Mongolian Chinese. Whenever a name of an ethniciy disappeared in history it means they were all slaughtered or they became or absorbed into another identity. People don't disappear suddenly in the air.
Thak11 1 year ago
Some of the Altaic-origin groups such as Tongyi, Senbi, Khitan, Jurchen, Mongols, and Manchus conquered China and ruled Chinese. Where did they go? Of course, some returned to their home and the others disappeared when the lower classes such as Chinese gained independence.
Although some parts of the invaders disappeared, the others are still alive their home where Altaic-origin people live. You should remember that the invaders, for example Mongols, were not all Altaic-origin people.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Manchus completely disappeared now!
MGLomerta 1 year ago
I think that Koraen has the ability to inventing writing system. Although Chinese characters were derived from inscriptions on Oracle bones, Chinese used it for writing their language and pictographs itself has its limits, it's to hard to learn a great number of the characters. King Sejong hoped that his people easily expressed their thinking in their own way. That's why he invented Korean characters and the most advanced writing system.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Tongyi origin is different from Chinese. Some migrated into China and founded Sang dynasty. They ruled China and lived with Chinese. Oracle bone scipts are primitive pictographs and mostly the ruling classes used it to hear the answers to divination. First, it's wrong that Oracle bone scripts do not fit Altaic, Korean also used it. Second, It was long time ago (~11th century BC) when they used Oracle bones. Most people didn't know the existence of Oracle bones, even though they were Tongyi.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
One should remember that a few number of Tongyi rulling classes originally used Oracle bones and Oracle bone scrips existed for specific purporses.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Oracle bones characters do not fit Altia language otherwise Altai language speaker would use Oracle Bones script for writing their language instead but they don't. That is also why Korean has to invent Hangul script to replace Classical Chinese. If you consider Korean to be Altai then it is illogical not to use Oracle bones script to represent Altai language. You are in a mess to put forth your theory. By the way the Dongyi in China are already Chinese or even Hans by now.
Thak11 1 year ago
@KimChiTard2010 Is that all you can say it? That's too pity 8D
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
I've heard about "Northeast Project", "Northwest Project", and "Southwest Project" of Chinese government. It's obvious that Chinese even think they can change the origins of their neighboring races such as Korean, Manchus, Mongols, Turks, and others.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
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@KoriSenbay The origins of Altai language family is Lake Baikal located in Russia.
I don't understand what u mean by the following:
"Chinese even think they can change the origins of their neighboring races"
WuTangtst 1 year ago
Koreans spoke archaic chinese before Hangul was invented. You have to speak what you read and write in order to make sense.
WuTangtst 1 year ago
Altaic people and their countries (especially seminomadic such as Korean, Senbi, Khitan, and Jurchens/Manchus) traditioanlly had a great influence on Yo (요, 遼, Liao) Province for thousands of years and Mandarin was originally a minority dialect spoken in that area and deeply affected by Altaic language family.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Nurhachi unified Jurchens and Tungusic and Manchus organized Eight Banners. When they conquered Mongol and China they also organized Mongols Eight Banners and Chinese Eight Banners for the political purposes.
After Manchus army entered China Madarin became one of officaial languages of Manchus Empire.
Chinese language is often called Mandarin even today actually it's the result of colonialism by Manchus invaders.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Before Hangul was invented 500 hundred years ago, Koreans wrote using Chinese characters. Although spoken language of korean is in present-day considered "Altaic", it was originally Sino-tibetan. The grammar was totally from what korean's speak today. A korean cannot read Chinese classical text because grammatical structure was different. Korean spoke a language in ancient times, which is similar to Archaic Chinese. Korean language today is only 500 yrs old.
WuTangtst 1 year ago
@WuTangtst Japanese do not have their own characters and they're still using Chinese characters in order to write their language. Even Hiragana and Katagana were derived from Chinese charagers. So you mean that Japanese language, for that reason, do not exist and it is Sino-Tibetan??? It's too silly.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Chinese characters were derived from inscriptions on Ancient Oracle bones used in Sang dynasty and Sang dynasty was founded by Tongyi (eastern foreigners) who conquered China. In this case we might can say that Chinese language was already affected by Altaic language long time ago but nobody would say that Chinese language belongs to Altaic because Sinitic origin is totally different from Altaic origin.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Even though Japanese are still using Chinese characters and Korean used Chinese characters in order to write their language, the origin of both languages have nothing to do with Sino-Tibetan.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
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WuTangtst 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Dongyi is part of Chinese ancestry no wonder about that. Oracle bones characters fit the Chinese Sinitic language perfectly well but not Altai language. If you think Dongyi was Altai (this is not proven) then I must say Dongyi was assimulated into Sinitic people to use Sinitic language instead.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 Well, Tongyi were considered as foreigners who lived in the east of China. And I think you don't know where Oracle bones originated. When the people called Tongyi founded Sang dynasty in China, they brought Oracle bones to China. Oracle bones are not Chinese invetion.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Mandarin already had its origins during the Song Dynasty, but it was indeed the official language of the Qing Dynasty.
ManjuSu 1 year ago
...moreoever, Manchu identity exist as we speak of it. Look at the title of this video please. Also, Manchu culture, heritage, and food can be found in China. I can list at least four county's where this culture flourishes. So, please take back everything you just said there. Thank u.
This conversation is getting tiresome. Now lets just enjoy this video.
WuTangtst 1 year ago
@WuTangtst Chiense don't be ashamed to admit that u people use the language of your former Ruler...the Manchurians.
Jorge235ful 1 year ago
@Jorge235ful
You are very foolish to say that Manchus gave up Manchurian of their own to
adopt Mandarin later in late Qing period which was and is more accepted in China.
Mandarin is basically a Chinese language as it follows Chinese language syntax although influenced to a certain extent by Manchurian and Mongolian.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11 No...Chiense are the fools, because they don't realize they speak the language of their former rulers...the Manchurians.
Jorge235ful 1 year ago
@Jorge235ful
Prove what you have insisted otherwise sun is no difference to the moon, man is
no difference to woman, China is no difference to Korea, you are no difference to
me as a self entity.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Thak11
You are very foolish to say that "AS" Manchus gave up Manchurian of their own
to adopt Mandarin later in Mid-Late Qing period. Mandarin in serveral regional forms
were and are more accepted by major populace in China.
Thak11 1 year ago
@Jorge235ful Which non-youtube consensus are you referring to???
WuTangtst 1 year ago
In conclusion, do you really think that the capital city of Korea was once written 漢城, which means City of Han Chinese? It's so silly. As your logic, Arahan are all Chinese because it's written 阿羅漢. Let me know you about the origin. The capital 漢城 (Han Fortress) was derived from 漢水 (Han River) and Han River was a written word of 'Arisu', a Korean sacred river. Han Fortress was the capital near to Arisu (Han River). It has nothing to do with Chinese.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay The purpose of this analogy was not irritate Koreans. I just want to show you that words like "Han City" ( 漢城) can be used to mislead people. Your reaction shows exactly how a Chinese(Manchu or Han) reacts when you twist facts around such as guessing that Zhong Hua Culture (中華民族) was the basis for Han to over throw the imperial rule. Even if Qing dynasty was led by a Han emperor, peasants would still overthrow the dynasty giving rise to a new nationality called 中國人.
WuTangtst 1 year ago
I think you should call to mind that Chinese characters are logogram and there are concepts of 訓讀 (the way of reading based on meaning) and 音讀 (based on sound). No characters represent any sound, so any character can have two or more sounds. That's why Korean, Chinese, and Japanese have their own sound in their language, even though it's the same character. So 'Arisu' can be written 漢水 in Korea and 'Toyotomi Hidiyoshi' was written 豊臣秀吉 in Japan. 漢 means 'Ari' not 'Chinese' in this case.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Urm....don't know what ur talking about! Yes, if i write in Chinese grammar to a person in Japan, they understand me. again, what is ur point?
WuTangtst 1 year ago
The term 'Han Chinese' identity was formed in the 1st Han China dynasty (202 BC-8 AD). Han Chinese originated from Han China. Although Han Chinese culture had been already mixed by other invaders, there was a common origin based on Sino-Tibetan language family.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
On the other hand, the term 中華民族 is actually like a delusion. There is no such a race in the world but in Chinese nationalist mind. It was coined and had been developed by not only Chinese patriots for national independence at the end of Manchus Empire but also Chinese communists. It has a thread of connection with 'One China Policy'. No Turks and Mongolian might think that they are Chinese but Most Chinese and other races are forced to be brainwashed in school by Chinese communist.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Mongols and Manchus belongs to Altaic. They are, of course, proud of being Altaic origin like Chinese are proud of being Chinese. You know Altaic origin is totally different from that of Sino-Tibetan. When Mongols and Manchus inavded China, destroyed Chinese counrty, and ruled Chinese for hundreds of years, they were just invaders. Mongols are espeically proud of being Mongols and they scorned Chinese basically, though Manchus didn't treat Chinese as Mongols did.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Again, 中華民族 or Zhong Hua, is a nationality identity of Qing. Fact is fact. I did not say it was a race. The Qing emperor of China insist on one nationality to be used for China. I suggest everyone type "Chinese" in wikipedia and you will see what I am talking about. As for Mongolians and Turkic people who live in China, they can choose to live in China and accept the Chinese nationality or live in other countries and be whatever nationality of their liking.
WuTangtst 1 year ago
@WuTangtst Fact? What is fact? Again, the fact is that Manchus were Altaic-origin invaders and Chinese were Sinitic-origin farmers. Moreover, both languages have distinctly different grammatical structures. Manchurian is related to Northeast Asian language family and Chinese is close to Southeast Asian language family. Chinese first migrated toward northeast and started to live there and then Manchus once conquered and ruled Chinese as other invaders did.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay As I said, Mongols scorned Chinese basically, but Manchus did not treat the conquered as Mongols did because Manchus wanted to last their empire as long as possible. That's why Manchus also organized both Mongols Eight banners and Chinese Eight Banners. Manchus officially supported both Mongols and Chinese especially northeastern provinces birth for the political porposes but it does not mean Chinese were (the same with) Manchus.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay You are confused again. I did not say Manchu and Han are "the same" ethnic. The Emperor of China advocated 滿漢一家. But in modern times, it is not easy to tell a part a Manchus from Han. Many marry each other in China. A lot of us have at least one relative who is Manchu ethnic.
Han-Chinese/Han-Koreans both 'were' not 'the same' as Manchus. But in modern times, we are related because of family relations.
KoriSenbay, anymore?
WuTangtst 1 year ago
Ok If I made you confused, it's my fault. Again, Manchus also organized both Mongols and Chinese Eight Banners. Manchus empire officially supported both races especially northeastern provinces birth for the political purposes but it doesnt mean Chinese were the same position with Manchus. Manchus were invaders and conquer