(2/10) Christopher Hitchens vs John Haldane at Oxford U.

[arniemazmax]

I looked at the Bible read it and observed if it true, and there is a judgement ...then going on the Biblical record God along with his alter ego jesus is in hell! Then shut it for good Christians have nothing to boast about. My record is impeccable in comparison. For god there is no redemption. May he disappear with all those following this brain dead bronze age evil.

[british123able]

oh yeah i got one!... hes getting on my nerves how hes going on about americans all the time.

[british123able]

i wana comment,but cant think of anything to say

[uruson]

My trip to Atheism is a rather short and boring story.

- Born.

- First heard about what religion was at age 18.

- Formed initial, and current opinion: "How can anyone believe this?"

Was rather taken aback when someone argued that you cannot be moral without religion.

And again, when someone else argued that you cannot justify morality without religion.

I wasn't aware that I wasn't a moral person, nor that I had to justify it.

[zfan2591]

"Secularism is the only guarantee of religious freedom" How often do you hear someone say that? It's absolutely true.

[Vahtacen]

6:16

And then Russia invaded Georgia.

[aPpLeJuIcE37RainLucy]

personal trip to Atheism. (shortened)

- Ricky Gervais makes fun of Noahs ark, and soon afterwards i realize it is rather ridiculous.

- stumble across Carl Sagans beautiful videos from the Cosmos series. (buy his book Cosmos and realize maybe i've been taught lies all along.)

- look more into astronomy and start to read about evolution. everything is now falling into place.

- read Dawkins Greatest Show on Earth and God Delusion. solidify the fact that God cannot exist

- now, im a happy atheist.

[gaieve]

@aPpLeJuIcE37RainLucy You've taken the time to read and educate yourself on the topic, and I commend that.

But have you thought of reading books and articles that support the existence of God?

[aPpLeJuIcE37RainLucy]

@gaieve to a certain degree, yes. but not a ton.

i'm half way through a book right now, and i have one waiting in line. but i'll be happy to read one after these two if you could suggest something good.

[ObjectiveImpact]

@gaieve I know one thing.Scientists are people who have spend all theyr lifes to study world around us.THEY ARE VERY SMART,because, once again,they have spend all theyr lifes to study universe.Now these scientists ( very very very smart people) tells me that god cant exist because laws of physics simply dont allow gods existance.Now somone who isnt even half as smart as those scientists tells me that god exist.Who is correct? Person who have spend all his live learning about universe or you?

[KapStuf]

@ObjectiveImpact "scientists...tells me that god cant exist because laws of physics simply dont allow gods existance."

That is a meaningless statement and I've never heard anyone make it. But it does give an insight into the religious mind - one which first asks "what are the revealed rules of reality?" and then "given these rules, what is real?".

A scientist asks "how does reality behave?" and then "what rules can we infer from this behavior?".

[ObjectiveImpact]

@KapStuf Actually Can you build a car?No,because you are not engineer.Can you perform surgery?No,because you are not doctor.Can you tell me what Julius Caesar told to one of his generals after battle of Rhine?No,because you are not historian.Can you tell me amount of stars in Boötes Dwarf galaxy?No,because you are not astronomer.Can you know is evolution possible?No,because you are not geneticists.Can you know origins or universe?No,because you are ordinary citizen and not scientist.

[KapStuf]

@ObjectiveImpact That's a neat trick - you've managed to completely miss the point I made ... while *demonstrating* the point I made.

And you've managed to do all that while making no clear point of your own.

Go back and re-read what I wrote, and then try to respond to it. Or at least say something substantive about *something*.

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact

A Physicist and a Magician walk into a bar.

The physicist buys a beer and the magician a glass of water.

Criss Angel then walks up to them, covers each of their drinks with a napkin and upon uncovering them, the beer and the water both turned into Cola.

The Physicist says: "That's Impossible, the Laws of Nature say so"

The Magician smirks and says "You're getting sloppy"

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact

The Moral of the story is somone may know all about one thing, but very little of another.

A very, very, very smart scientist undoubtedly intelligent still has little or no insight into the nature of the supernatural or divine.

On the flip-side, a wise and enlightened monk or priest may have great knowledge of the divine, but very little of the empirical laws of the universe.

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact Now how can you trust a physicist who knows little about the divine or religious when he says "God doesn't exist" when it isn't is field?

The same way I don't trust a priest when he says "Evolution is a hoax" since most of the time, they have no idea what they're on about.

[ObjectiveImpact]

@gaieve Once again, you are simple man, who even dont understand how gravity works. Between you and scientist, it is 10 times more possible than scientist will be correct.

You are dumb, scientists are smart.What could possibly you tell to scientist what he allready dont know? NOTHING! Therefore if both of you must answer question, any question, MOST PROBABLY he will be correct and you wrong.That is clled basic logic.Dont argue with someone who is 7 times more smarter than you-scientist.

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact

Did you even read what I wrote?

If your convicted on bashing your view over mine, then where is the gained knowledge?

I'm not arguing that scientists aren't stupid, but they excel in particular fields of studies and probably have no idea in another.

A chemists knows all about atoms, elements, compounds etc. but would know little about something such as fashion.

Same goes for a physicists, who know ALOT about physics but little about the divine or religious.

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact What signs are left by gravity?

The only evidence that I can think of in my average joe brain is that everything falls down when it's thrown up.

That is however only cause and effect, and not a physical and tangible piece of evidence.

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact I'm not talking about the Origins of the Universe, I'm talking about the existence of God.

If a physicist says that the universe sprung into existence via Big Bang, then how can you disagree, it's their field of study.

However, once a physicist goes beyond their field of study, such as the religious, divine and supernatural, their information becomes doubtful.

[ObjectiveImpact]

@gaieve physicists study everything. If there would be ANYTHING supernatural, they would study it, therefore everything "supernetural" is still theyr field (If there were anything "supernatural")

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact

I have to disagree

Physicists don't study everything nor do they know everything.

Again they are undoubtly intelligent people, however what would a physicist know about something such as Fine Arts, or Fashion, or maybe performing arts, music, magic.

Physicists know alot, but not everything.

And mind you, I'm not disregarding science in my life, it contributes alot.

[TomVodkaCollins]

@gaieve Neil deGrasse Tyson used to do tap and ballet, if I recall correctly, as well as basketball. =^D To every rule, its exception.

[gaieve]

@TomVodkaCollins

Of course there are the exceptions.

But I've yet to hear of a famous physicist who has had a deep study of theology.

But I HAVE however have heard of physicists in the PAST who were in fact clergymen and had made great contributions to science.

It is these historical figures that claim there to be a God, yet they had a study of a field of science also.

[TomVodkaCollins]

@gaieve So? Being of a scientific mind doesn't preclude a susceptibility to ignorance or wrong thinking. Being a scientist doesn't automatically make you right about everything. Conversely, being a religious figure, priest/rabbi/imam/shaman, doesn't make you automatically wrong about everything. MOST everything? Yes. EVERYTHING? No.

[Ebvardh]

@aPpLeJuIcE37RainLucy Mine was less defined.

I just read the bible and noticed this pattern of "I am god, remember that" being said over and over again in the second and third chapter.

I came to the conclusion, over time, that it was centered about fear and in no way could it have been written by "god". It was just a tool, I realized, and started to read it under the presumption that there was no god.

I was... Astounded.

[ObjectiveImpact]

@Ebvardh Physics is studys of the nature and properties of matter and energy. How can person who have no real education in physics talk about origins of universe? It's like talking about which gun in better, when you dont have any education in combat equipment.

Pgisics is study of nature.How can you, avarage man,without education in physics tell me how universe was created?You are avarage man.You dont know NOTHING about universe. It is immature to think that your theory will be correct

[gaieve]

@ObjectiveImpact I'm not telling you how the universe is created.

I'm discussing that just because a physicist says 'God is non-existent' does not make it true just because he knows the origins of the universe.

[ObjectiveImpact]

@gaieve Same goes for "divine". There is no signs, no trails, no evidence that there is such a thing as "divine" or "bless". In simple words, if person really believes in something even tho there is no reall evidence, person is delusional. Even if god does exist, the fact that you believe in him without considering lack of evidence means that you are delusional. Even if there is god, blindly believeing in him, without doubts and without asking for evidence is wrong and immature.

[Ebvardh]

@ObjectiveImpact

Hey... I think you replied to the wrong person, mate.

[ObjectiveImpact]

@Ebvardh ok, sry but still- do you believe n god? :D

[Ebvardh]

@ObjectiveImpact No, my comment was about how I stopped doing so via reading the Bible.

Also, physics doesn't say god is non-existent. Physics doesn't say anything about god, because god has not been properly defined in physics.

[ObjectiveImpact]

@Ebvardh I ment that accoarding with laws of physics it is impossible for god to exist but ok

[Ebvardh]

@ObjectiveImpact Why do you say it?

Again, I'm not religious, but could you enlighten me with why according to your observations of the laws of physics, it's impossible for god to exist? And, what do you mean in the first place when you say god?

[paledave]

@aPpLeJuIcE37RainLucy For me it was the Life Of Brian when I was young, just seemed to meke so much more sense...

[folkhippy]

I am fairly new to Hitchens, but after watching a few interviews and this forum...I just bought all of his books.

[ahfa53]

WOW! Three empty seats! Front row...right in front of Hitchens....such a shame...wish I'd have had one of them!

[torontoBluejays87]

@ahfa53 maybe they had to take a bathroom break.

[scar504]

@rashaan6 that was a wonderful defense for religious persons

[MrTimmytop]

What I would give to have Hitchens talk to me as I go to sleep every night. Even if his arguments were absolutely rubbish (which they are not - quite the contrary), I'd have a hard time disputing him.

[ricko1111]

@MrTimmytop - buy his audio books and dream away

[nigelsenchez]

Out grow the myth that the universe cares about us, that it was designed

for us in mind, that it is all about you and me. It is not. Look at the

beauty of science instead, think about the consolations of philosophy,

the glories of literature. Get a life, Get off your knees, and stop

groveling and stop waling. Christopher Hitchens.

[SchizoScottie]

Christ Whisperers love to witness, worship and hate Middle Easterners (except Jesus Christ) on youtube and facebook. That way they can keep their porn sites open in a seperate tab and stroke off in between praying for Peace, Love and Happiness and begging Jesus to remove that Peace Loving Happy Negro out of their whitehouse. Leaves time to run down to the church and maybe hook up with Rev. Ted Haggard, and go blow some guys over at the airport restroom.

[bhigr]

Yes, Saudi money for mosques should be outlawed as long as they do not reciprocate and give religious freedom to Saudis. Very good point!

[towneslives]

''the most democratic'' - come on now christopher, do be reasonable. otherwise, nice speech. apart from the nonsense about iran. and the absurd reverence for the constitution, as per usual.

[SyKmGl]

What he says at 8:12 is not entirely correct. Britain seems to be an exception, since they have an established Church, but they are reasonably prosperous, tolerant and so on.

[writersblock26]

@SyKmGl Yes, but Britain apparently has an equivalent to the US Constitutional 1st Amendment.

[yamenhawit]

:) ahhh 0 dislikes... that's what I'm talking about!

[jack2452]

00:39 what? Muslim son?

[VimFuego72]

The man is an absolute genius! Hitch, Get well soon...give us another few years of this wisdom!

[eahazell]

everything that comes out of his mouth should be written down , his books are not enough. Instead of arguing with overly religious I point to Hitch.

[SlayingMinion]

where is oxford?

[xomiakas]

@SlayingMinion google it mudafucka

[mik99D]

@SlayingMinion In the county of Oxfordshire in the southern half of England.

[mik99D]

@SlayingMinion In the county of Oxfordshire in the southern half of England. About 30 miles north west of London. Just off the M40/A40

[bdf2718]

@SlayingMinion

Oxford University is the second-oldest surviving university in the world and the oldest university in the English-speaking world. Despite its long history, these days Oxford University expects its students and academic staff to know how to use Google.

In fact there are damned few people with an internet connection who do not know how to use Google. You appear to be one of them.

[SlayingMinion]

@bdf2718 I'm a pothead, dick.

[bdf2718]

@SlayingMinion

And there I was thinking all along that there were no bad results from using marijuana. Clearly I was wrong.

Firstly, marijuana seems to make some fuckheads too fucking stupid to use Google.

Secondly, marijuana seems to make some fuckheads so fucking stupid they fight back when somebody, correctly, points out that they were in the wrong.

My guess is that marijuana makes some fuckheads so fucking stupid they forget what the first rule of holes is.

[SlayingMinion]

@bdf2718 lol, where do you get off talking silly shit to people online? I wish there was a word to describe people like you... yap all you want.

P.S. And I can use google just fine.

[bdf2718]

@SlayingMinion

Oh happy day. I guessed that marijuana makes some fuckheads (you) so fucking stupid they forget the first rule of holes. You oblige me by confirming that.

Here's what you just wrote: "P.S. And I can use google just fine. "

And here's what you wrote that started this thread: "where is oxford?"

I'll do you a favour you don't deserve and remind you of the first rule of holes. When you're in a hole over your head STOP FUCKING DIGGING. I expect you'll ignore the advice.

[SlayingMinion]

~<==3

[bdf2718]

@SlayingMinion

I agree. You're a wanker.

[bdf2718]

@SlayingMinion

I agree. You're a wanker.

[akallabror]

I fucking love Christopher Hitchens' diatribes on religion. He has never managed to disappoint me even in the slightest. Always spot on - always as aggressive, witty and eloquent as I would wish to be myself. Off to the next part of the debate!

[malverttoffle]

Go Hitch go......

[dirtydonki]

I like sex

[dirtydonki]

I like sex

[mikeyo1234]

Look how smug and egotistical Haldane looks when the speaker lists his academic accolades. He's an intelligent idiot.

[RPKGameVids]

@mikeyo1234 LOL @ intelligent idiot XD

[gupsphoo]

Hitch is so right! Believe whatever you want, but keep your fucking fairy tales to yourself!

[Hamilton7776]

@gupsphoo 'Hitch' doesn't know shit about anything. it's amazing that the brother who blames religion for warfare is the same brother who wanted to invade Iraq. Every Time I look at him I can see the Vodka seeping out of his pores

[kidlomax]

Hitch, one of the smartest primates ever on planet earth

[mikeyo1234]

@kidlomax His neurons 'kick ass'.

[powellallan]

My big all powerful all vengeful friend who created everything will destroy Christopher Hitchens when this world ends and he will put me and others like me on the throne of the Earth and we we live eternally enslaved to the devotion of my big friend. I know this because he tells me in private interviews called prayer that it will be so. How delusional does that sound?

[ubernaffa]

Christopher doesn't address the fact that, although a secular executive is the only guarantee of religious pluralism and tolerance, the majority of the religious do not want religious pluralism and tolerance. The majority of the religious want a tyranny of their own religion.

[snackmanta]

Hitchens, you're loved by more than your humility compels you.

[MrSalamander7]

Sweet! This debate could have ended at 0:10 of this video.

[ahmology]

racist ... talking about muslim women

[HumaninSeoul]

@ahmology

Since when is the word Muslim, a religious position, a race?....lol

[ahmology]

@HumaninSeoul search  wiki - Sarcasm

[mikeyo1234]

@ahmology Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. Questioning delusional beliefs and relying on facts is not bigoted. Wake up and smell reality... it tastes sweet.

[LowleyUK]

good to see Hitchens using new points in his debates, I really hope he beats his cancer.

[ahmology]

i just hope the tumor is localized !! i dont want him to die before debating a muslim imam =(

[krystosdobs]

@ahmology

i am just waiting for that blockbuster debate.

[lefredvoncarstein]

@ahmology no imam can ever be engaged in actual debate. they will say "it is written" and that will be the end of that, as far as they are concerned. the only way to remove the scourge of islam from the face of the earth once and for all is through blood and fire.

[quixxxie2000]

May we be blessed with more such individuals like Hitchens and Dawkins. If I were to die today, this would be my last wish for this planet.

[patrickledford420]

churchs need to be taxed, plain and simple, your fairytail gets no special treatment.

[crush3r63]

@patrickledford420

precisely - I couldnt agree more.

[lexave]

Hitchens is wrong: all religions DO receive hefty subsidies from the Government in the form of tax exemption (in the US).

[redchango]

Hitchens in a complete and total douchebag, and that's why I love him.

[soad218]

Hitchens is just factually wrong about American history. In Mass. Catholics were branded with a P on their foreheads until the 1830's. The Bill of Rights did not originally apply to state laws, and states could pass laws violating the Bill of Rights, hence the scenario in Mass.

[nixgliese]

Hitchens is a guru.

[sina126]

This video was uploaded on 12 June, which is my birthday.

I consider this the best gift that I got.

[MattHunX]

@sina126

Happy B-Day! You're another year closer to the permanent, inevitable end of your existent. :)

When was this debate? I hope it's recent.

[SockbatReplica]

@MattHunX According to the video discription May 12th.

[MattHunX]

@SockbatReplica

Oh, right! Sorry! Missed it. If it's not in the description then I tend to look at the upload date, and that confuses me, because it can recent according to that, too...

Never mind that.

THANKS!

[SockbatReplica]

@MattHunX no problem

[DRAGON76]

Hey i just wanted to bring up this fairly disturbing point.....Have you ever noticed how terrible the "cc transcribe audio" option on the bottom right of the viewer, completely changes this debate? I know it's in its beta form but that is ridiculous.

[sleepcity]

@DRAGON76 Yeah. Something that rough shouldn't be public yet. It's a cool bit of technology and I'm sure it'll improve. I bet anyone who is deaf or hearing impaired will be able to tell rather quickly that something is amiss simply because the sentences don't make any sense.

[faithisfiction]

...nailed it, Hitchens hands down.

[GowanBray]

The family values quip never gets old for me.

[ag66636]

hitchens is my hero

[Capcomski]

@ag66636 You are not alone in that thought, Long live the Hitch!

[BeanTheForce]

@ag66636

I think he should wear a cape during all future debates.

[Airsoftaddict78]

I would love to see Hitch go to the High School in Dayton TN where the video "creationism in the classroom" was filmed, there are teachers in that school that STILL teach Creationism!!!

[sleepcity]

@Airsoftaddict78 I'm with you on that. He has alluded to making a documentary based on "god Is Not Great" -- sort of like "Religulous" (but smarter) or Dawkins' "The Root of All Evil?" Would love to see Hitch go to the deep American South and dress down the promoters of dogma and magical, irrational thinking. I wonder if some of them are literate enough to even understand him. Public school science education in the US is in CRISIS. We have to do something.

[Airsoftaddict78]

@sleepcity 100% agree with you about the CRISIS of American schools ... any ideas on what we can do ... other than getting Hitchens to EVERY school in America??? The problem with a LOT of the "promoters of dogma and magical, irrational thinking" is that when faced with evidence that even THEY can understand, they DENY it .... I have been having a two or three week discussion with FORUMLIGHT on that "Creationism in the Classroom" vid ... they refuse to accept the evidence tho, SO frustrating!

[sleepcity]

@Airsoftaddict78 Ideas? Prevent the distortion of our extant curriculum (esp. with regard to biology and history) by the uneducated and proud. That's going to mean standing up and being counted. You're right...it's not as if reason and evidence automatically matter...we have to make them the values that matter. To do that, we have to do what the extreme right have done: breed teachers and children. Sad, isn't it? Of course smart people have fewer kids (Idiocracy got it right!), so we're doomed..

[Airsoftaddict78]

@sleepcity What about a reversible form of sterilization given at birth? People would have to pass a general test and get a license to have children. This, if done properly, could still allow good responsible people to have kids, while HOPEFULLY dealing with a lot of the issues that uncontrolled reproduction is causing .... I can't remember how often, but it's AMAZING how often the world population doubles now! It can't stay that way indefinately!

[sleepcity]

@Airsoftaddict78 Forced sterilizations? No thanks. I was thinking of something more along the lines of intelligent, educated, rational people asserting themselves in the US instead of quietly tolerating medieval thinking (and in tolerating it, promoting it). American high schoolers can't find countries on a labeled map. They don't know what century we're living in. They can't do algebra. What's worse is that they don't care. We need to make standards HIGHER, not lower. We need to expect MORE.

[darkmiles22]

@sleepcity I cannot agree more. Shout it from the mountaintop.

[Airsoftaddict78]

@sleepcity I agree with you that our standards need to be higher, and I'm not saying that I'm supporting this idea ... but out of curiosity .... what is it that offends you about the idea of disallowing some people to reproduce? Is it the invasive nature of the procedure I spoke of ... or is it that you believe it is our "right" to reproduce? I'm interested in where the "sticking point" is with you over this topic. I DO agree with ALL of your points about education!

[patrickledford420]

@Airsoftaddict78 makes a little, huge part of me die inside

[dietermauer]

Mr. Hitchens = brilliant as always !

[OpqHMg]

hahahha love hitchens

[writersblock26]

@OpqHMg Me, too.