Christopher Hitchens and AC Grayling debating Allied bombing in WWll 11/11

[SabraStiehl]

Unknown the the Allies, when a German aircraft or tank factory was bombed and film review showed it destroyed, usually, the only damage was the roof falling onto the tools below. Most of them survived. An immediate second raid was needed, but this almost never happened. The Germans would then remove the tools from the wreckage and spread out production, so a raid more than several days later would have been relatively useless. By war's end further bombing would have been relatively ineffective.

[SabraStiehl]

The American bombing campaign featured little precision. Film review judged that only 22% of American bombs landed within 5 miles of the target. The British managed to get only 10% that close, but they bombed area targets at night. I've made drops from a C-130 over France, so I know of the cloud cover the aircrews had to drop through from high altitude - lots of clouds to obstruct vision, particularly late in the year, plus nobody knew about the jet stream. And they dodged flak and fighters.

[MrLincolnj]

For months, after first hearing Hitchens I felt thrilled to be hearing such a clear voice for rationality and resistance to religious pretensions and cock-and-bull. But I've since come to realise that Hitchens obfuscates nearly more than he clarifies. His contributions are peppered with non sequiters and blind-endings and pure irrelevancies. He reminds me of Bobadil, the empty, swaggering, blustering soldier in Ben Jonson's play. A pity he can't use his gift for polemics with more discretion.

[KingKook]

AC is actually really defending, in his cool but committed manner, the notion & value of open inquiry, while Hitchens is trying to lower the gavel & make a final, sound, irrefutable ruling on the matter. Hitchens is an authority freak, motivated by a deep, conflicted need for domination, while AC is not. AC is a true intellect - gentle, gracious, reflective, considered, aspiring. Hitchens is an impressive rhetorical spectacle. Both are interesting, but only one is truly enlightened & inspiring.

[MrLincolnj]

@KingKook I agree. For e.g. Hitchens sputters out an irrelevant remark about Churchill (in response to Grayling) that articulates his hatred for Churchill (which he shares with that scum of the earth, David Irving), and then connects it with a complaint that Churchill never mentioned the 'Final Solution' in his historical writings. An entirely spurious point, with two unconnected issues. Often it seems like he doesn't have enough logical sense to be able to maintain relevance in his contribution

[writersblock26]

Thank you for posting this, pablonoriega89.

[scrubjay93]

Thanks for uploading--this was a mesmerizing debate that will stay with me a long time.

[MultiUniv3rsal]

If Hitchens succumbs to cancer, I fear the world will lose the single most rational voice it has.

PLEASE, pull through. We love you, Christopher.

[MrLincolnj]

@MultiUniv3rsal I don't think he's as rational as you make it seem. He really has a problem with sticking to the point. And his need to impress people with flummery and pointlessly inflated rhetoric certainly takes precedence over his sense of consecution and logic. Another thing is that he just has to try to drown out other peoples' views by talking over them - a most disrespectful and ill-mannered exhibition. The more you hear him the less impressive he is. Self-important swagger, no less.

[stillceaser]

@MrLincolnj I really don't understand what it is you people mean by 'rational'. You have some very strange presuppositions about this notion. I'm not sure you've fully understood what Hitchens was trying to say.

[CommanderC4]

Did anyone else get chills when Hitchens said "fair enough" at 8:40?

THIS ladies and gentlemen is what a proper debate should be like.

[TheKevturner]

can i just say, this is humanity at it's very best

[alexandermccarthy]

An excellent discussion from the AC and Hitch, and some superb questions from the audience. It's truly refreshing to know that the quest for truth remains alive amongst modernity, despite the efforts of those which desperately cling to Bronze Age faiths.

[g3548dm]

Grayling set the "bayonetting babies" question early on, but it was never really discussed - where is "the line" on terror tactics and was it crossed? If not, when is it crossed?

[rherrick123]

I love AC Grayling's response to the second question. He entirely ridicules the question.

[snappycattimesten]

It's wonderful to be reminded that the Hitch, when surrounded by an intellect and intelligent audience, is less bullying in his interaction with his peers.

Rambunctious Hitch, when surrounded by American Fox hosts who dull the mind, whilst entertaining can also be a distraction from his well thought out arguments.

Good debate all round and thank you for the upload.

[PhillyDickinson]

Cheers for uploading this. Two thoughtful, articulate and excellent thinkers.

[TomPiltoff]

Thanks for uploading, this was really interesting.

[yRegal]

"Thank you for your patience"

"Patience!?"

LOL