Flame Test- Potassium Chloride #1

[gman570p]

Cool man i didnt know you could ceate a flame with chloride. I always thought i was nitrate or chlorate

[mrericsully]

@gman570p It is usually the metal ion that gives a flame its coloration so it doesn't really matter what anion is there, although some burn better than others.

The anion dependent flame that I am aware of is Copper (II) has a different coloration if the anion is a halide versus any other anion.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully oh so it wasnt just potassium you were using. i should read the description. So would it be possible to make a fire or smoke bomb with just potassium chloride? if not lol i give up on it cus i rlly dontknow where to get copper powder or any other material like that. I have tons of copper wire I took from a computer moniter i threw away. so if theres any way to make it could u tell me. Im only 14 lol so i cant buy a welder or smelter. Unless my dad gets one then ide be all set.

[mrericsully]

@gman570p Fire and smoke bombs out of just KCl aren't really possible because it isn't all that flammable and doesn't produce smoke. This is burning because of an alcohol. If you want smoke bomb directions check out HouseholdHacker's or Kipkay's channels, or get one of William Gurstelle's books.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully ya man as long as the sugar is burning it creates smoke. but i dont have potasium nitrate or chlorate. i can make them at home with my chloride and ammonium chloride. but my parent probly wont approve. hmmm i have a question. is it possible to extract potassium nitrate from toothpaste?

[mrericsully]

@gman570p Possible, maybe, but there is so much other stuff there that I don't think it will be worth it. If you're trying to use sugar then you are looking for an oxidizer and no the chloride won't work.

Ammonium chloride and potassium chloride will not produce potassium nitrate, and I'm not familiar with a procedure to make potassium chlorate that uses ammonium chloride.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully Whoops i was thinking of the wron chems for nitrate. but i think i will mix the toothpaste in with water and boil it.hmm thanks for answering so quick

[gman570p]

@mrericsully ya i just said that lol. what is an oxidizer. i know since it haz the word oxidize it might have to do somthing with oxygen which is pobably one of the most flamable gases

[mrericsully]

@gman570p If you don't know what an oxidizer is I recommend that you stay away from making pyrotechnics. Also, oxygen is not flammable at all, but it is needed for fires to burn. The traditional fire triangle consists of: a fuel, an ignition source, and oxygen (or oxygen source). The simplest description of an oxidizer (esp. for pyrotechnics) is that they are chemicals that contain, but easily give up their oxygens. This means they can serve as an oxygen source in place of normal atmosphere.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully I always thought oxygen was a burning gas because I think i heared something about an oxygen torch once.

[mrericsully]

@gman570p I know of the Oxy-Acetylene torch and a few other oxy-torches (see Wikipedia's page Oxy-Fuel Welding and Cutting), which uses oxygen to make the acetylene burn faster and hotter because it is premixed with the oxygen source rather than needing the air/atmosphere for it.

Oxygen does not burn, it makes fires bigger and hotter- it is needed for combustion, but itself is not combustible.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully So it would be oxygen and nitrous. How hot would potassium nitrate burn?

[mrericsully]

@gman570p No it would not be oxygen and nitrous (nitrous could also refer to several things, but is different than nitrate).

As far as temperature goes I'm sure there is probably a maximum value and it will be quantity and heating method dependent, but generally in chemistry we don't focus on temperature, but instead on heat energy. The reaction would give off some quantity of kilojoules/mole.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully Hmm I always thought temp and heat energy were the same thing. The faster the particles move the more heat the slower the more cold

[mrericsully]

@gman570p No, they are related, but temperature is really a measure of the average kinetic energy of a group of particles or of their vibrations whereas heat energy depends on the type of material, quantity of that material, and that material's [specific] heat capacity [or the type of material].

[gman570p]

@mrericsully Hmm then if the particles move faster in a object it turns into a diffrent state of matter and the same for the low moving particles and theres four states of matter solid,gas,liquid,plasma. Which plasma i think is just super heated air so it might not be a state of mattter. Amirite? Oh and wat grade r u in. im in 8th

[mrericsully]

@gman570p Yes, changes of state occur when atoms begin to move faster and vibrate more, but of course those changes occur at different temperatures for different substances.

As far as the states of matter there are the three traditional states, there are several other theorized states or maybe better would be to call them exceptions at temperature extremes. Of those others, plasmas are the most common- found in stars, fluorescent and "neon" tubes, and lightening. Plasmas are ionized gases.

[mrericsully]

@mrericsully Ionized means that they have become ions (so excited that they have lost some or all of their electrons). I am a teacher by the way, not a student.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully Hmm what grade do you teach then? Are u serious that plasmas are the most common. Im not tlking about in the univer im talking about earth.

[mrericsully]

@gman570p I teach junior high and high school physical sciences (8-12).

I was referring to plasmas being the most common of the other exceptions, but actually yes, plasmas are probably one of the most common state of matter since it is the stuff of stars.

Of course, on Earth plasmas are rare. As for the most common on Earth it depends on the state of the mantle and inner core [fluid or solid] and whether we are going by volume or mass or number of particles.

[gman570p]

@mrericsully kool man. awsome i didnt know about kinetic energy having to do anything with an object state of matter or so what that helped me on test thanks.