Hardball: Race and Affirmative Action

[Moralvorstellung28]

Why are white people sticking up for the blacks race?Those apes hate you. I would love to see Joan on a dark night in the cityall alone and three blacks confronts her. It would change her tune real quick. Oh well, she only does this shit to score political points anyway. I'll bet she doesn't even believe herself.

[tyronewashington1]

@Moralvorstellung28 its called a mental disorder, its a disgusting mentality no different from beastiality, unnaturaly and wrong

[IsaiahHarper11]

It's funny how a race with the lowest poverty rate is complaining about the race with the highest poverty rate getting a helping hand.

[SteveLLW]

@IsaiahHarper11 "Helping hand" --- stepping on the head of an innocent 25 year old white guy because there was slavery and discrimination 150 years ago and 50 years ago, respectively.

[StoogeWatcher]

Affirmative action IS racism. 

[rubbersole79]

So, the central question seems to be, was the test rigged, or wasn't it?

Was it?

[Mrstrongisland01]

Affirmative action promotes the inadequate now the inadequates run the country

[EsClayWilson]

The test discriminate against stupid illiterate people, The tests are not difficult nor do they have questions that are only familiar to Irish, believe me. It is like in Mass a few years ago; over 60% of the "minority" teachers failed a simple certification test cause they couldn't even do a simple word problem in fraction arithmetic like divide 4 pizzas amongst 7 students, 4/7 a pie a piece, duh!

[stunashv]

that bitch is stupid

[qwertypoiu4321]

Affirmative Action is a form of coercive racism.

[ultimatetalesfan19]

This is hilarious, Chris Matthews complains the stands in sporting events are too white(calling it a white sport) and constantly attacks other white people for being white, but yet insists that Irish people should be the only firefighters because of culture and tradition.

Of course Joan is full of shit as usual, daring to complain about how white institutions are when nearly EVERY area is disproportionate black to the point of insanity.

[EsClayWilson]

@ultimatetalesfan19 You misunderstood Matthews, he said that Irish have a long tradition of being firefighters which explains why there are so many of them, as opposed to say Armenians.

[ultimatetalesfan19]

No, he is saying that Irish people should dominate firefighting because of tradition.

While he constantly complains about how white things are in America, even the stands in a sporting event.

[defnite]

She is ill-equipped for this debate, also I don't like that there is two people arguing against one. This is not a fair debate, they should have gotten a person more knowledgeable on the subject. Personally I feel that Affirmative- Action is fair not because it undoes history but rather it gives access to jobs that people were denied in the past.

[Debaser11]

And if the tests are biased, that's life. I don't think they should go out of their way to be racially biased. But a test about fighting fires or some other public sector job may have questions that are inherently easier for one race to answer for whatever reason. But if that question is important and relevant to the job, all the crying in the world about fairness is pretty irrelevant.

[Debaser11]

Are AA advocates so dense that they don't see how this undermines institutions? I'd have no problems going to a black doctor in theory. But if I think he got to where he was b/c of something like AA, that doesn't exactly inspire confidence in his abilities. This applies to any walk of life. A meritocracy is the only truly fair system and dingbats like Joan Walsh have so much PC flim over their eyes that they are too blind to see the obvious. I hold minorities to the same standards. Imagine that.

[Debaser11]

Joan Walsh is an idiot.

[mydogsas]

I totally agree affirmative action should be banned. I was a triple legacy, with a 4.125 GPA, 27 ACT, played football and baseball, in beta and NHS and got rejected by the University of Florida, but i bet there are tons of less qualified minorities that got in. The law is racist against minorities if you think about it. It holds minorities to lower standards than whites. It basically says i know you cant be as smart as whites. Also with contracted jobs in this economy. Minorities are better off

[secedeful]

I think she needs to study race and IQ.

[bkbreede]

As a black male I have to agree with Pat Buchanan on this one, but he's been on a campaign against affirmative action for while now. Unlike most people I actually don't think he's a racist, he just openly states his feelings and tbh I respect him for that. If you were to have a real debate about race both sides would have the tone of Pat Buchanan but much differing views.

[therepublicanknight]

If your really black and have read some of his previous writtings on race and blacks and you honestly think he isnt racist or bigoted then maybe you might not be black or maybe you views are really really skewed. Kind of like Uncle Ruckus

[bkbreede]

Well I haven't read any of his books, just from what I've seen of him on tv I usually agree with him, like I said I agree with him on this particular topic. I don't think my views are skewed, and I am actually black.

[dmarsom]

this woman is pathetic

[Sredit]

Gee whiz, who invited that bitch to the program?

[IROCwarriorAMC88]

I hate it when women get into politics because usually they side with the liberals. They should stay out of politics because it's bad enough.

[EsClayWilson]

@IROCwarriorAMC88 yes, they tend to threaten bigots and fools like you

[illegalalienscum]

In NY only Latino and Black are counted as minorities, so affermative action doesnt count for any other race. Asians I heard dont count because there race does not commit enough crime and grime to qualify

[uskillmc]

this lady is the dumb bitch

[harveysuperboy]

My father is right Chris is a racist too..

[DavidValley]

I'm surprised Chris Matthews is agreeing more with Buchanan. He is usually a lot more liberal. Maybe he is a bit more conservative on social issues than I thought.

[rdbn25]

yeah his agreeing something that actually makes sense. Kind of weird huh?

[regency08]

standard tactic: yell.

[thomasward00]

Stupid guilt ridden white liberal bitch

[gellion1]

would you want an unqulified person protecting you?

[Rick28206]

"Affirmative action" is racist discrimination, pure and simple. It should have been tossed long ago as a violation of the Equal Protection Clause, but the white establishment has pushed it. It won't hurt THEM, it just screws over average white people. The white establishment has bought into it to keep blacks from burning down cities.

[dccentaur]

Affirmative Action is necessary because for every 100 qualified white men who get passed over because of it, there are 100,000 equally or over qualified non-white men who were passed over because of their race, gender or religous beliefs... it's not always fair but neither is America's history (nor its present).

There is a thin line between pride and ignorance... which side are you on?

[swani24]

That is the biggest bunch of bull I have ever heard! You seriously believe 100000 non white men get passed over???THAT is complete bull!

[Gorgeous04Blonde]

What do you base your statement off of? What statistics do you have? Of course minorities get passed over for jobs, so do whites...racism can and does happen to every race.What we should not allow in our society is institutionalized or legalized racism to counteract and prevent illegal racism. It is not fair to punish whites....and asians of mistakes committed in the past by people who the only thing they share in common with them is their skin colour.

[cocobear33]

walsh is a fucking moron , how can a firefighting test be racist , it's a test of fighting fires for god sake

[JaysCyYoung1]

Agreed. Firefighting is a job that requires competency against all others. I find it offensive that some people feel that Latinos or Blacks are so incapable of being able to pass a test that they feel the need to hold their hands. Take the most competent people. PERIOD.

[pookypoo77]

feminism and civil rights is the demise of this country. down with affirmative action and down with feminism!!!

this is an outrage!

[lafmassive]

Your people (racist social conservatives) have been singing that same song for years. You have lost every major battle in history from slavery to women's rights and your people (an endangered specie at this point) will continue to lose all of the culture battles in this country. You're part of a loser movement that is fueled by hate and preserving status quos of the past and quite frankly the country and the world would be a better place without scum like you. Down with racist scum!!

[bbukfan]

Anti-feminism isn't racist. Affirmative action is, however, because it specifically treats one race as being superior to another.

[lafmassive]

Affirmative Action is racist and sexist program. It favors the races and the sex that racist and sexist have discriminated on for so many years lol. I almost feel like answering you (a Brit) is worthless. You probably have no idea about the history behind the program. I'll be waisting my time no more.

[bbukfan]

As a Brit, I mean I wouldn't know that Nixon started major affirmative action in American government and brought it to the mainstream. It had a purpose during the immediate post-Civil Rights movement, but now it needs to end, especially in public sector positions like firefighters. The 14th Amendment states that the law and government treates all citizens equally, not preferentially.

[bbukfan]

Ever heard of the ERA? Fail.

[SOLISDEUS]

Editorialist Harold Jackson claims multiple choice exams are inherently racist and thusly used by the white oppressor in every sector of business and academia to discriminate and oppress the black man. Un-f*cking-believable. Crap like this that hurts the civil rights movement. Maybe just maybe the white firefighters prepared alittle bit more for this particular exam in this specific city. I am sure there are other black firefighters somewhere else whom score top of the class.

[lekesha00]

as a black female, i did agree with the verdict. this is a unique case but race did play a part and it makes others look bad when they complain. i just want fairness and the white fire fighters and the latino did desreve that promotion.

[rickwoods1057]

@lekesha00 And when a minority is promoted based on not qualifications but race or gender someone allways gets hurt example using firefighter example of the 8 who scored best 7 white 1 Latino we disqualify 2 whites put the best scoring blacks in this continues up the ladder now you have a fire at your house where your 3 year old child is trapped she will die a terible death unless a fast and accurate decition is made unfortunatly for you and your daughter the correct answer was on the test .

[lekesha00]

@rickwoods1057 all i'm saying is that in this particular case, i agree with the verdict. i do feel the hiring practices need to updated to help out more hispanics and african americans to get these jobs.

[km1075]

haha bye bye affirmative action

[bravesfanforever31]

This shows that affirmative action is flawed and should be class based and not race or gender based. I have never been a big fan of affirmative action in these days as a black person because it lowers expectations for blacks and minorities when trying to get a job. It doesn't give me an incentive to work hard. It is equally worse to get hired because of i'm blacks as it is to be turned down because i am black.

[nickd4818]

Walsh is such a pc liberal. "Bravery comes in all colors" As does stupidity Ms Walsh, as does stupidity.

[SouthP17CD]

Affirmative Action doesn't help anyone but people who aren't qualified

[defnite]

@SouthP17CD define qualified? There is no statistic that suggest that people minorities (race, disability, gender) are less successful than white counterparts.

[gmail123forever]

Even if u agree with affirmative action, which I dont, first u have to establish a link between the amount of melamine in persons body to their ability to take a written test. (1) Since there isnt they cannot throw away the test results on this ground, especially after the fact, how convenient (2) I do not understand blacks, they want equality but say they are less able to take a test, what? I am Latin and would never use this theory on myself. Do black want to be labeled as inferior.

[tobim2004]

You are a Latina and you are making such an asinine comment. A group of white firefighters along with their white supervisor who is responsible for administering the test got together in exclusion of their black counterparts and you tell me that is fair? You absolutely don't know who you are and I think you need a counseling from Judge Sonia Sotomayor.

[gmail123forever]

Because I am latina? I want equal treatment but contrary to your beliefs, equal treatment means I want to be held to the same standards as any other person.(1) The firefighter with the highest score overcame dyslexic barriers and studied 13 hours a day. (2)The test was generated by an independent firm (3) Test results thrown out after the fact (4) I think that believing someone is incapable of accomplishing the same goals as another individual because of race is devastating and divisive RACIST!

[Gorgeous04Blonde]

amen...love your thinking :)

[rachelazw]

What proof do you have of that? And why did a latino also pass this test? From all I've heard, this is a standard test for firefighters. And the case that has gone before the courts, and now going before the Supreme Court, the defendants do not suggest there was anything wrong with the test or how it was administered. That's not what the case is about. Everyone got asked the same questions and had the same opportunity to prepare.

[gcbarone]

tobim, please explaine how the test was not fair? Are you saying that since the majority of the department was white that the test must somehow be rigged? Please clarify. As it is, your statement seems irrational and somewhat racist.

[Gorgeous04Blonde]

Your comment is ignorant. You are saying because she is Latina that she should automatically agree with affirmative action. All affirmative action does is set aside lower standards in order to help benefit minorities on nothing else outside of their skin colour, while at the same time punishing asians and white on nothing else outside of their skin colour. Racism goes both ways

[pacotheus]

Whatever test they administer to choose players for professional basketball teams CLEARLY discriminates against white people. Such test(s) are therefore invalid and should not be used!!!

[KSM2000]

What does that woman-like thing have against Irish Catholics anyway? Well, its impossible for anyone white to be offended, how could they? They own everything in this oppressive white supremacists fascist state!

Any normal application of laws become impossible with identity politics. But normalcy is not the goal, they want -- they need abnormality to thrive.

Just dont expect whites with normal glands to cower before ad-hominem attacks like racist or hater or Nazi when the fight comes.

[zerodok]

Any black with principles of honesty and integrity would denounce "affirmative action". But they don't have any real leaders much like most white people.

[xxdonaldqxx]

I hope Chris Matthews and Joan Walsh both get called in the office and the their boss tells them he must demote or fire them because to many whites are in media positions.I can't what until something like that happens.

[DarthChuckster]

Here we are sitting under the tyranny of a black president and we still have this anti-White hatred going on. I'm sick of it. It's time to separate and balkanize this fiasco of a failed experiment called america. Every race needs its space!

[secedeful]

@DarthChuckster You got that right.

[EsClayWilson]

@DarthChuckster Wow, you must want some sort of race war with your paranoid hate. Like look what happened in the Balkans, real groovy.

[IsaiahHarper11]

@DarthChuckster Tyranny? what do you call Bush then?

[heomak]

@DarthChuckster i agree..racist whites should be given the worst piece of land where the most hurricanes and disasters happen....let's get rid of those dimwits..lol...and decent white folks get good land.

[MarcusCMarcellus]

Joan Walsh is a disgrace. Liberalism is a life-long temper tantrum against one's father and common sense.

[LaFemmeNoireRocks]

Hey White men, look at how much White women "Love" you, lol!

[catchic0000000000000]

If my house was on fire I'd want the best possible man for the job coming to save me, not someone picked because of affirmative action. Shouldn't affirmative action be gone now? We have a black man in the White House...come on! This is b.s.

[GlobalMinority]

This brainwashed women needs to look in the mirror for her own RACISM towards white male Irish Catholics. I guess Marxist bitch is married to a non-white to be polite. Please I wish we could deport her to South Africa and see how well blacks treat white people it called GENOCIDE! Matter of fact take every Marxist white person and deport them all to South Africa for that matter.

[PushItNGo]

Matthews had a point. Maybe non-black athletes should sue the NBA for lack of diversity.

[Daracon75]

sonia sotomayor should be kicked out of the Courts.

[Fight4freedom311]

Joan Walsh's ugly bigotry is so grotesque. This is all about the status seeking. She never sighted once what was wrong with the test. It is a firefighting test for god sake. I really hope that the fire station nearest her house is composed quote recipients.

[prooc]

Liberalism is a mental disorder, which causes stupid people like this bitch to agree with descrimination without ever actually realizing.

[defstoner18]

Yes, liberalism is a mental disorder, that is why the most liberal European countries have much smarter citizens/far better education... and less crime... and less depression and suicides.

[AussieOz007]

They should force people like Joan Walsh to meet burn victims and she can then try to explain to those people, her ideas for a more diverse rather than a more skilled firefighting department, hopefully their shock and disgust at such an idea might knock some sense into her...

[AussieOz007]

Fire fighters are responsible not only for property, but also peoples lives, and i dread the day that governments and people like Joan Walsh -FORCE- 'diversity' into the ranks, whilst overlooking the skills and competency of said diversity, because ultimately, it will cost lives.

Choose the best person for the job, regardless of race, i don't care if they are white or black as long as they have all proven to be the best candidates, and are not simply there to diversify the department.

[AussieOz007]

Typical at the end, rather than ending with an argument (im not sure she has one), all she gives is an emotional sound-byte 'bravery comes in all colors!'

Unfortunately, bravery isn't the sole determining factor in becoming a firefighter, if it was, you would get all manner of brave but moronic people running into burning buildings and getting injured/killed. There is a lot of specialized knowledge and strategy that needs to go along with that bravery, that is what the test helps to determine.

[RealShakaZulu]

Joan Walsh attempted to speak to this complexity but in typical fashion Matthews went to sound bites and his 'traditional Irish Catholic' values are America position. While ever the opportunist Buchanan, decides to use this as a wedge issue to recruit around "Frank the Firefighter" to secure Republican votes for the next election cycle.

[RealShakaZulu]

That is exactly what makes this controversial. Do the white firefighters deserve promotions for working hard...ABSOLUTELY. Are there historical 'isms in many of these public sector careers...ABSOLUTELY. But as long as we fight each other for the smallest slice of the pie we collectively lose.

[Plushtar]

Why can't affirmative action advocates understand that if someone does not qualify, then it simply means they don not qualify?

[Makron5]

We hating Chris Matthews for being a centerist or righty or are we hating Bat Pukecannon who was always a right-winged piece of shit.

[american1476]

when the Irish realize that the Jews and Blacks arent their friends he will come running back to us we're sorry for how we treated him in the past and we are willing to help him for it...All Irish should be white nationalists! or they will phase the same problems in Ireland or do they ; ) blacks are taking over Ireland btw

[seans10]

The reason this case is so tough for white liberals is that they know the problem isn't the test. If they really believed the test was racially biased against the black test-takers, they wouldn't find this case test at all.

[seans10]

make that: they wouldn't find this case TOUGH at all.

[illegalusername]

AH BLOO BLOO BLOO It's so hard being an priviledged white male when people call me out for my bigoted views.

I mean there's a nigger president i can't be racist right guys?

[MrAnnaphila]

She doesn't claim the test is rigged (she said *historically* they have, which is true), doesn't claim that it's fair, or that the case was cut and dry. Obviously the close decision proves that.

I agree with Joan that tests like this hurt everyone involved. However, I do agree that holding jobs for your friends and family in public sector is wrong. Public sector jobs should be open to the public and not held aside for nepotism.

[PushItNGo]

They were not "held aside." The black applicants took the same exam as the white applicants, the white applicants did well, the blacks did not. Unless anyone can prove that the exam was racially biased the white firefighters should be promoted. They earned it, period. And I'd like to see an example of one of these rigged tests in the past.

[MrAnnaphila]

They only earned the right to be promoted based on the test. A test shouldn't be the only reason someone is promoted, it should be based on a variety of issues. And like Joan said this is a ugly case where everyone was harmed, including the firefighters.

Not having read the tests or knowing much about the case I can't comment on this specific test. But I dare say if you go back a few decades I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find.

[PushItNGo]

Okay, so what specifically are these "variety of issues"??? You're painting yourself into a corner here. You want to just say this is an ugly case and be done with it. Try telling that to the qualified firefighters that got screwed.

[MrAnnaphila]

I'm not painting myself into any corner! I don't think promotions should solely be based on a test. ESPECIALLY not civil service positions.  I think there should be a number of qualifying factors, which is what I meant by a variety of issues. The whole problem in this specific case is that new haven chose to base promotions on 1 test, and then not honor those results. I understand why they want more racial diversity, but I absolutely think the way they went about it in this case was wrong.

[kstorm06]

Looks like the culture warrior's heart was about to give out.

And yeah, us white guys? We got it real tough. It's hard out there in the "jungle," if you know what I mean.