These are cool lights but what does the guy in the trailer on a fixed income (who pays low electric rates because he lives in a state that uses coal fired plants) do when the price of light bulbs goes up 100 times. Ironic that people who have the cheapest electricity will be shivering in the dark because of "progress".
I bought a few of the yellow ones and I am wondering if the white bulb type give the same light output and feel? I love the light from the yellow bulbs but they look ugly in my open lights. I got a great deal on the 12W yellow from HD for 15 each!
I've a 7w LED, I went for a "colder/blue/day" bulb because at the moment they are still quite low powered and the colder bulbs tend to push more light out. Cost me about $12.50 in USA money. I intended to replace an 11w CFL wth it, but when I pulled out the CFL I noticed it was 18w. So it is going in a smaller room, where I expect it to last ages. I think even standard LED lights would work well enough in a multi light fitting.
Going to try this 7w bulb in various rooms around the house.
@gmatochautube Tuna has mercury., well aint you a clever sophist!! Beef has iron.., wanna make your next youtube clip one of you downing a tablespoon of rust?
@gilliasad - found it, thanks. Yup, CA provided $548m in subsidies though an electric rate fee and subsidied bulbs provided by utility companies. Considering that CFL's here in Texas are not expensive (and not directly subsidized), I would say the impact on the retail price was little. BTW, some utilities here in TX also provide free or low cost CFLs if requested directly from the utility. I think the high price of LEDs is because they're still new - like CFLs 15 years ago.
Well we're a year out and the 60 watt ambient LED is still $25. It used to be $40 so I guess that's an improvement but it's not anywhere near the same price as a CFL as you predicted... why? Lack of subsidy as with CFLs?
@gilligasad True, they're not falling as fast as I had hoped. But I have seen the 60watt version on sale at Home Depot for $20 recently. Obama sold out the efficiency requirements on light bulbs so I fear the market may slow down.
I'm not aware of any subsidies for CFLs - if you have some facts to support that, I'd love to know about it.
@Juiss2 I'll believe it when I see it. CFL bulbs were to last for fiev years or more as well but I've had many fail prematurely. I'm just saying that at the current price, its not justifiable - at least not for me.
Thank you Sir for your review. I was confused until i saw this video. I remember DVD players were $500 at one time :) but now u could find one for $30. I suppose led will take the same route. Excellent in depth review. I'm subscribing to your channel for life. VIVA Google/ YouTube !!!! Excellent.
thks so much for the review....i was planning of having led lighting for my new home...and i am gonna stick with it...,and ur little girl is so sweet!
I bought my LED GU10's (285 lumen) "Super Bright" from a UK based LED supplier (energybrite)... I bought my own, my sisters and my dad's (50) @ £5.50... I am a Happy Chap :-) Thank you for your info and highlighting to me the benifts and cost saving... eddie
LOL a point that critics like to push...dude ENJOY YOUR Mercury poisoning and increased cancer, while your at it, drink a nice big glass of fluoridated tap water because its good for your teeth.
@flauze - You enjoy YOUR mercury poisoning. CFLs contain about 4mg of mercury. If you use incandescents over the lifespan of a typical CFL, given the power plant mix in the U.S., you'll put nearly 8mg of mercury into the environment - your water, your grains, your fish, vegetables and meat. That's not even counting the other coal pollutants. But I guess as long as your environmental toxins are hidden, you're a happy camper.
4mg, though less, is still an unacceptable level of pollution, especially as it's likely that not all CCFLs that have reached the end of their operational lives will be disposed of properly. In addition, that's 4mg of pure mercury pollution at once at a very localized area rather than 8mg over a long span of time.
I'd rather choose the best choice rather than the lesser of two evils. LEDs.
@Watcher3223 - yep - and a localized contamination area is vastly easier to control and clean than pervasive environmental mercury, which is, literally, everywhere. I'd love to light my house with stored solar crystals - except that's science fiction that doesn't exist (yet). LEDs are great - but a very hard sell at $20 or so apiece for people contending with $4/gallon gasoline. CFLs at their current price point are a hard sell, and if you can't have ideal (LEDs), better is actually... better.
@47f0 " a localized contamination area is vastly easier to control and clean than pervasive environmental mercury"
That's IF you catch the localized contamination before it hits something like an aquifer, creating the "pervasive environmental mercury" you're concerned about.
"LEDs are great - but a very hard sell at $20 or so apiece for people contending with $4/gallon gasoline."
It's a high initial expense that is countered by superior durability and efficiency over a CCFL while also being safer with virtually no UV emission.
In addition, with economies of scale, LED lights will likely trend downward in price in the near future, leading to their greater acceptance over CCFLs.
@Watcher3223 Uhm, duh. The reason a lot of people are driving cheap inefficient POS cars instead of German diesels is high initial expense. A lot of people do well to plan savings on next weeks food by shopping sales. And LEDs aren't true substitutes for CFL or Incandescent bulbs - when the LED marketers stop playing games with lumens (i.e. lying), maybe they'll have some credibility to go along with that high price tag. BTW, better today IS better than "better" some happy day in the future.
"The reason a lot of people are driving cheap inefficient POS cars instead of German diesels is high initial expense"
Of course, the high initial expense of an LED light is nowhere near as dramatic as the initial expense of a German diesel automobile.
Plus, an LED may pay for itself within a year or so of use through energy savings whereas the high initial price of a premium automobile may not see such a return in the investment so soon.
@jz78817 - Please. There are still a zillion 300Ds running around. You may be thinking about the crap American diesels that GM created by trying to lightly modify a gas engine. When Benz brought the Bluetec diesel to America, they had the FIA randomly select three cars, and ship them to a track in Laredo TX. where they were pounded by rotating shifts of drivers, 24/7 for 30 days averaging aver 100,000 miles each at about 140 mph with zero mechanical failures. Premature failure? Hardly.
@47f0 can you read? I said the car would fall apart around the engine, and given VW and Mercedes' crap reliability/quality in recent years I stand by what I said. I don't care how long the engine lasts if the electrical system is f***ing up every other day.
Oh, and the W124 hasn't been made since the early '90s. if you're going to tout German cars as some paragon of longevity, you might want to talk about what people can buy now and not something almost 20 years old.
@jz78817 - I read fine - do you? One sentence about the 300D (I was referring to the W123/W126, BTW) and the rest about the E-class Bluetec, which is available at your Benz dealer now. (Memo: never use more than one sentence for the A.D.D. YouTube crowd). But, your thinking is interesting. I can only discuss longevity for cars you can buy today. Hmmm. Because 30-year-old cars that run fine today with a quarter million miles on them has nothing to do with longevity. Hokay.
@Watcher3223 - no LED lighting is not science fiction - but it is a product that has only niche applications for those with the disposable income to toss on vague future promises of increased cost/efficiency numbers. LEDs are currently viable only where other expenses outweigh their current cost, like portable lighting where batteries are the main expense, or traffic control lights where maintenance is a big factor. They're just not there yet for Joe Homeowner, and probably won't be soon.
@47f0 "but it is a product that has only niche applications for those with the disposable income to toss on vague future promises of increased cost/efficiency numbers"
LED lights are not THAT expensive. They are priced higher than CCFLs, but they are still within the realm of affordability, especially as an LED system is likely to be less electrically complex (no components necessary for converting household power to high voltage required to power the CCFL element) and more energy efficient.
The lower electrical complexity means a greater chance of an LED light to be more reliable than a CCFL, which means less likelihood of replacement under normal use.
It's easier to make a reliable high freq. power supply to service the LEDs than a high voltage system to service the CFL for the limited space.
Plus, LEDs require less energy, so less money is required to pay for energy.
LED lighting is practical enough for the high retail price to be offset by the savings in 1-2 years.
@Watcher3223 Many LED based lamps are less efficient than compact fluorescent lamps (one LED lamp I've seen had an efficiency of 12lm/W, which is the same as a 40W incandescent lamp), so the reduced power consumption means that the lamp will be dimmer than a similarly rated CFL. Another problem is that the lamps in this video have an operational heatsink temperature of around 160°F at room temperature, so the LEDs will roast and die early.
"one LED lamp I've seen had an efficiency of 12lm/W, which is the same as a 40W incandescent lamp"
Old hat.
There have been a lot of developments with LED lighting that have resulted in products available today with over 60 lumens per watt.
An example is the current line of Philips AmbientLED A19 bulbs that debuted a couple of months ago, which includes a bulb indicated as a 60 watt replacement rated at 800 lumens at 2700 kelvin at 12.5 watts with a six year warranty.
@Watcher3223 The lamp in question was made a few months ago. Also, LED efficiency ratings do not account for the often severe light depreciation that LED lamps have (one LED I got from a dead night light was dimmer than a cheapo $1.95 for 100 indicator LED after a few thousand hours of operation). And that AmbientLED lamp you speak of costs forty bucks (and that cannot go much lower, as it uses 18 Luxeon Rebel LEDs, which are not cheap) and runs very hot.
"The lamp in question was made a few months ago"
Specify brand and model.
"Also, LED efficiency ratings do not account for the often severe light depreciation that LED lamps have."
Depends on the quality of parts used.
"And that AmbientLED lamp you speak of costs forty bucks and runs very hot."
Yet it is warranted for six years. If it fails before the warranty expiration, replace it under warranty. The remedy is going to be a new LED lamp free of charge.
@Watcher3223 That lamp is one of the Philips candelabra base lamps Home Depot sells (the 2.5W 30lm one). Another LED lamp they carry (7W 155lm reflector lamp) has an efficiency of just over 22lm/W. These multiwatt LED lamps also run hot, as I have measured up to a 90°F temperature rise above ambient on my 8W EcoSmart PAR20 lamp, my 9W A19 EcoSmart lamp and my 8W AmbientLED lamp. Heat + LEDs = bad. And the EcoSmart lamps have efficiencies under 50lm/W.
"That lamp is one of the Philips candelabra base lamps Home Depot sells (the 2.5W 30lm one)"
Doesn't exactly compare to an A19.
"These multiwatt LED lamps also run hot, as I have measured up to a 90°F temperature rise above ambient on my 8W EcoSmart PAR20 lamp"
Are your EcoSmart lamps still working and are still usable? If so, then the thermal dissipation is doing its job and the product is covered under a 5 year warranty.
@Watcher3223 The problem is the high heat generated by the lamp. Heat is the primary reason for LED failure in these applications, and their being run at these temperatures (considering that the plastic heatsink material has a thermal resistance of a few degrees Fahrenheit per watt, the LED dies are running at much more than the heatsink surface temperature) the LED lifetime and efficiency are both adversely affected.
@Watcher3223 These lamps use a plastic heatsink material (plastic/graphite mix; graphite lowers the thermal resistance). This is lighter, cheaper and doesn't pose the potential electrocution hazard of a copper or aluminum heatsink, but has a much higher thermal resistance. So their stock thermal management is an inherent flaw in their design unless some form of refrigeration is incorporated (costly, inefficient and impractical, so this isn't done).
@Watcher3223 The LED nightlight failed after the 90 day warranty on it. As to the LED lamp thermal management, these may work as designed, but that design is not a good one. The problems these lamps have with thermal design is due to their manufacturers trying to stick the niche technology of LEDs into the universal realm of the incandescent lamp. Adequate cooling of these LED lamps cannot be easily done if they are supposed to fit wherever an incandescent lamp can.
@Watcher3223 The comment in question was made a few days ago. "Also, LED efficiency ratings do not account for the often severe light depreciation that LED lamps have (one LED I got from a dead night light was dimmer than a cheapo $1.95 for 100 indicator LED after a few thousand hours of operation)." White LEDs often do this well short of their rated lifetimes as heat from the die roasts the YAG phosphor (the yellow stuff you see in white LEDs).
@Watcher3223 The night light was some generic Chinese made crap from Home Depot, purchased in late 2007. With regards to the warranty, they usually contain loads of boilerplate, within which are warnings about not using said lamp in enclosed fixtures, with electronic switching devices, etc. These caveats give them loopholes with which they can reject the warranty claim. Considering that the manufacturers of these lamps are whole hog in with the "green" scam, anything they say is suspect.
@Watcher3223 I do not think many established lighting brand give a fig with regards to their reputations, as most have pissed away the quality of their products in recent years. GE has shipped of their GLS incandescent production to China, and the glasswork and general workmanship on these lamps is horrible. Even their remaining US made lamps suck (off center filaments, fill gas oxygen contamination, etc.). Same with Philips and their Chinese lamps, when their Mexican ones were passable.
"I do not think many established lighting brand give a fig with regards to their reputations, as most have pissed away the quality of their products in recent years"
That's a subjective argument.
And, there are companies, including big ones, that do care about their reputations.
If they suffer enough in that regard, customers have an interesting tendency to avoid them.
@Watcher3223 The degeneration of product quality with time is a common thing. Plus, the big name lighting manufacturers have cast their lot with the government mandating these flawed 'green' replacement technologies, so the end user will have no choice. Take how they were among the big pushers of the idiotic incandescent lamp ban a few years back. To them, the feds>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the consumer.
"Plus, the big name lighting manufacturers have cast their lot with the government mandating these flawed 'green' replacement technologies, so the end user will have no choice"
Though the argument turned political, here's what you do: vote out those who legislated a ban and vote in those who'll work towards repeal.
And, I admit this much; I prefer the free market work it out as that'd force CCFLs and LEDs to develop more competitively with incandescents on the market's terms.
@Watcher3223 The problem with elections is that we have just the stupid party and the evil party. With regards to the market, CFLs and LEDs would never replace many incandescent lamps, as CFLs are only good for certain incandescent applications (no frequent starting, good air circulation, no 'other than dry contacts' switches, no enclosed fixtures, etc.). LEDs are good for low brightness to medium brightness indicator applications and certain low brightness illumination applications.
@randacnam7321 "The problem with elections is that we have just the stupid party and the evil party."
And it's usually with people who have been in the game longer than they should, which is why we need term limits and to get rid of the lame duck session. And there can be more than two parties, but of course the change takes time.
Now, that's not to say that there are companies that may not care. But, I don't believe they don't care to the point where they may be open to being passed by their competition.
"GE has shipped of their GLS incandescent production to China, and the glasswork and general workmanship on these lamps is horrible."
They're also a major provider of CCFLs and LEDs. If they couldn't get simple incandescents right, then what's the point of getting anything more advanced from them?
That said, with regard to their Chinese made lighting products, do you have anything beyond personal experience to prove a trend within a substantial enough sample?
Personally, I'd prefer lighting that's, of course, made in the USA. However, are any such products to be had?
Short and simple answer: no
So, what other choice is there, except candles or the dark?
In addition, are defects prevalent enough to actually be a problem that enough people are complaining about them?
You snub enough people on the warranty, you invite a particular problem that nobody wants to be on the receiving end of: a potential class action lawsuit.
Of course, warranty coverage can be denied still, but then if that becomes standard practice to deny coverage to too many lights that fail within the coverage period, that creates a bad impression that may make people stay away from the product and possibly even the company itself; people do not like to be taken for a ride, especially a second time.
But, if reliability remains a question (if you find LEDs to be too unreliable, CCFLs have their own quirks as well because of the challenges of dealing with high voltages required to drive the florescent lamp; high voltage stress means parts wear out), then stockpile on incandescent lamps.
"And the EcoSmart lamps have efficiencies under 50lm/W."
Your EcoSmart PAR20 is rated at 350 lumens (approx. 43 lumens per watt) and is indicated as a 40 watt PAR20 halogen replacement.
A typical PAR20 halogen is rated for 360 lumens; a 10 lumen difference. Big whoop. But, here's the clincher: a PAR20 halogen is approximately 9 lumens per watt. (360 lumens divided by rated wattage)
Seems to me like your PAR20 LED lamp is fine and more efficient than the halogen it replaced.
"traffic control lights where maintenance is a big factor"
The problem with this contention is the fact that LEDs manufactured for traffic control may be made in a way that caters to the particular characteristics of that task, including being in operation 24/7 with higher levels of power cycling than would be typical in a home setting.
I recently picked one of these up at Home depot $39 in Canada. I was surprised at how well it works and agree with your findings. they color is great. as close to incandescent as the other CFLs I tried in comparison. seems brighter than a 40W incandescent. and far brighter than long life incandescent. I confirmed this with a photo light meter. also its instant on and will dim no almost out and will restart on the dimmer at the same level Hope the price comes down! great bulb.
I remember hearing that CFL's are not good for low traffic areas like a bathroom because turning on and off reduces their lifespan and requires more energy or something? That they run on 3 hours cycles or something, does the LED do that as well? I keep incandescents in my bathroom for this reason, so curious if the LED is similar to the CFL in that regard, thanks.
@luxeluxe That's a good question. That pattern of usage is hard on many kinds of electronics - incandescent bulbs included. But it is definitely harder on CFLs and does shorten their lives - some brands more than others. As for the LED's themselves, they are not very susceptible to damage from power cycling, but the power supply electronics certainly could be. Since LED's are so new, few people (without conducting some specific testing) yet have real-world experience with these bulbs.
@gmatochautube LED's are not new technology.. All those indicator lights you see on your stereos use LED's and have so since the 1980's. LED's are an old technology with vast improvement in light output to the point that they are able to replace incandescent lights..
@luxeluxe CFL's are fine for low traffic areas. A short duty cycle does decrease the number of total "on hours". But the duty cycle needs to be less than about 5 minutes before they decline 90%, to the poor "on hours" lifetime of incandescents. Say you turn a 100w equivalent CFL on for 5 minutes, 10 times a day. Its still going to last you 3.25+ years. It's still going to save you $6 in life-cycle cost over incandescent. You'd have to stand and flip the switch continuously for the CFL to lose.
You've done an amazing job in capturing the features of these LED bulbs. I encourage people to become early adopters of LED technology. The yellow tipped 60W replacement is a wonderful bulb. I am considering the 40W replacement. My review of the bulb for Home Depot was rejected because I discussed mercury and the poisoning of the people who produce the bulbs in China's factories. In addition, I suggested that someday CFLs won't be recommended in carpeted areas or in children's rooms.
No they are not a national retailer...which is a big plus for me. I had too many bad experiences with national retailers...poor quality...poor products..cheap prices...you get what you pay for from national retailers! Did you let a voicemail message? I found them to be a very busy company but they always promptly returned my calls within 12 business hours . But hey I could care less what bulb you like. Was just trying to be helpful! I found what works the best for me so tats all tat matters.
Did you get them fast? Were they shipped the next day? That's what in my book I called excellent customer service. But hey like I said...your life ...your opinions. Its a free world!
Sorry but I disagree with you...Philips is NOT the best LED bulb out there! Not only do they have an ugly look, they also do NOT have the life nor efficiency nor specs that you could get for your moneys worth.
You can buy a 6 watt bulb that actually runs on 5 watts that is an equivalent to 40-50 watts incandescent and comes in a warm white that looks like an incandescent withOUT that ugly yellow looking stuff. It's only $19.99 and comes witha 3 year full replacement guarantee AND 50,000 hours
I found them at 877-NRG-SOLUTIONS. All you do is call them and order and they ship them out FAST! I got mine within days of ordering...right to my door step. They look as much like an incandescent as you'll ever find. They have LEDs for any kind of bulb you ever need..even for flourescents &candlebra. They have EXCELLENT customer service.Glad my friend referred me cple mnths ago!
I did extensive research on LEDs and found out that you can't beat their price for quality of bulb anywhere else.
NRG Solutions is reselling TESS bulbs. I have two on order (40W and 60W equivalent). A little research on these bulbs indicate they may be very directional since they use the same surface mount LEDs often used in flood light designs, but with a frosted plastic cover to give them the look of a bulb. I will post review once I get them. As for NRG's "excellent customer service", I called three times and twice got an answering machine. They're not a major retailer.
@thesmiths041 This bulb consumes 7 watts per my watt meter. I can only rate temperature and lumens subjectively, but as I stated in the video, IMO they are spot on or even a little underrated. As for life, we'll have to wait and see. I make not claim that this bulb is the "best bulb out there." As stated, there are several companies producing this type of bulb. Presumably NRG-SOLUTIONS is reselling one of those. I'll call them up and see what they have to offer. Fans - wait for another review!
I too am excited by LEDs. It is the way to save lots of money and reduce pollution. Thanks to you and your daughter (I believe she is your daughter) for producing this review! I was surprised to see how closely all bulbs in the fan unit seemed to have the same color quality. Keep more coming!
Thank you for this! I suspect I'll have to invest in the 40w with the plastic covering, though I'm curious to see what the one without looks like in action.
This has been flagged as spam show
Well done.
rsp196607 1 week ago
These are cool lights but what does the guy in the trailer on a fixed income (who pays low electric rates because he lives in a state that uses coal fired plants) do when the price of light bulbs goes up 100 times. Ironic that people who have the cheapest electricity will be shivering in the dark because of "progress".
faffaflunkie 1 week ago
Great video, thanks.
errorstudios 2 weeks ago
I bought a few of the yellow ones and I am wondering if the white bulb type give the same light output and feel? I love the light from the yellow bulbs but they look ugly in my open lights. I got a great deal on the 12W yellow from HD for 15 each!
seenh526 1 month ago
I've a 7w LED, I went for a "colder/blue/day" bulb because at the moment they are still quite low powered and the colder bulbs tend to push more light out. Cost me about $12.50 in USA money. I intended to replace an 11w CFL wth it, but when I pulled out the CFL I noticed it was 18w. So it is going in a smaller room, where I expect it to last ages. I think even standard LED lights would work well enough in a multi light fitting.
Going to try this 7w bulb in various rooms around the house.
kondor1001 1 month ago
what are the best led bulbs right now?
ps3spoiler 1 month ago
Hope prices come down to cfl levels atleast.the audio of this video sucks.
bimalgeorgethomas 1 month ago
cfl's contain mercury
YoginJ 2 months ago
@YoginJ Do you eat Tuna? If you eat 6oz of tuna, you will have the same mercury exposure as sitting in a small closet with a broken CFL for 8 hours.
gmatochautube 1 month ago 3
@gmatochautube Tuna has mercury., well aint you a clever sophist!! Beef has iron.., wanna make your next youtube clip one of you downing a tablespoon of rust?
mysty0 3 weeks ago
@mysty0 LOL
gmatochautube 2 weeks ago
Regular working class people will not buy LED bulbs until they rival CFL's in price.
im1greatman 2 months ago
@gilliasad - found it, thanks. Yup, CA provided $548m in subsidies though an electric rate fee and subsidied bulbs provided by utility companies. Considering that CFL's here in Texas are not expensive (and not directly subsidized), I would say the impact on the retail price was little. BTW, some utilities here in TX also provide free or low cost CFLs if requested directly from the utility. I think the high price of LEDs is because they're still new - like CFLs 15 years ago.
gmatochautube 2 months ago
sorry, I can't add the link
gilligasad 2 months ago
Well we're a year out and the 60 watt ambient LED is still $25. It used to be $40 so I guess that's an improvement but it's not anywhere near the same price as a CFL as you predicted... why? Lack of subsidy as with CFLs?
gilligasad 2 months ago
@gilligasad True, they're not falling as fast as I had hoped. But I have seen the 60watt version on sale at Home Depot for $20 recently. Obama sold out the efficiency requirements on light bulbs so I fear the market may slow down.
I'm not aware of any subsidies for CFLs - if you have some facts to support that, I'd love to know about it.
gmatochautube 2 months ago
@gmatochautube $548 million in the past 7 years has been put toward CFL subsidy in California. The most recent bits are buried in this:
gilligasad 2 months ago
google "published decision 107378" click the second link and see the link at the bottom of that
gilligasad 2 months ago
@Juiss2 I'll believe it when I see it. CFL bulbs were to last for fiev years or more as well but I've had many fail prematurely. I'm just saying that at the current price, its not justifiable - at least not for me.
svtcontour 3 months ago
nice review
sign4s 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I found these for $20 after rebate @ Store.EarthLED.com
Bimmer135i1 3 months ago
Just a thought.
Its your first review on a product and you're putting it on youtube.
You should do you hair!!! :o
terribleusernam 3 months ago
Did you just get out of bed?
SpazzyMcGee1337 3 months ago
cfls look cheap and the lightness make them feel worthless. leds look expensive and heavy duty and feel valuable.
poiiihy 4 months ago
Thank you Sir for your review. I was confused until i saw this video. I remember DVD players were $500 at one time :) but now u could find one for $30. I suppose led will take the same route. Excellent in depth review. I'm subscribing to your channel for life. VIVA Google/ YouTube !!!! Excellent.
stheodro 5 months ago
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stheodro 5 months ago
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stheodro 5 months ago
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stheodro 5 months ago
thks so much for the review....i was planning of having led lighting for my new home...and i am gonna stick with it...,and ur little girl is so sweet!
ponnu1984 5 months ago
Excellent Video! I bought a 4 pack of 2.5W (42LED bulb) for $10AUD. I'll eventually change all the bulbs in the house to these. Cheers.
Sandunsa 6 months ago
@randacnam7321 Could you post a list of advantages/disadvantages that LEDs have compared to incandescents.
AHW214 7 months ago
@hawkermustang Do you remember the nameifbthe light and price. It might have been a low quality ripp off light bulb.
AHW214 7 months ago
I bought my LED GU10's (285 lumen) "Super Bright" from a UK based LED supplier (energybrite)... I bought my own, my sisters and my dad's (50) @ £5.50... I am a Happy Chap :-) Thank you for your info and highlighting to me the benifts and cost saving... eddie
EddieGittins 7 months ago
I bought an led bulb. It lasted about 50 hours and broke. Don't waste your money. Also it was very dim.
hawkermustang 9 months ago
LOL a point that critics like to push...dude ENJOY YOUR Mercury poisoning and increased cancer, while your at it, drink a nice big glass of fluoridated tap water because its good for your teeth.
flauze 10 months ago
@flauze - You enjoy YOUR mercury poisoning. CFLs contain about 4mg of mercury. If you use incandescents over the lifespan of a typical CFL, given the power plant mix in the U.S., you'll put nearly 8mg of mercury into the environment - your water, your grains, your fish, vegetables and meat. That's not even counting the other coal pollutants. But I guess as long as your environmental toxins are hidden, you're a happy camper.
47f0 10 months ago
@47f0
4mg, though less, is still an unacceptable level of pollution, especially as it's likely that not all CCFLs that have reached the end of their operational lives will be disposed of properly. In addition, that's 4mg of pure mercury pollution at once at a very localized area rather than 8mg over a long span of time.
I'd rather choose the best choice rather than the lesser of two evils. LEDs.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@Watcher3223 - yep - and a localized contamination area is vastly easier to control and clean than pervasive environmental mercury, which is, literally, everywhere. I'd love to light my house with stored solar crystals - except that's science fiction that doesn't exist (yet). LEDs are great - but a very hard sell at $20 or so apiece for people contending with $4/gallon gasoline. CFLs at their current price point are a hard sell, and if you can't have ideal (LEDs), better is actually... better.
47f0 9 months ago
@47f0 " a localized contamination area is vastly easier to control and clean than pervasive environmental mercury"
That's IF you catch the localized contamination before it hits something like an aquifer, creating the "pervasive environmental mercury" you're concerned about.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@47f0
"LEDs are great - but a very hard sell at $20 or so apiece for people contending with $4/gallon gasoline."
It's a high initial expense that is countered by superior durability and efficiency over a CCFL while also being safer with virtually no UV emission.
In addition, with economies of scale, LED lights will likely trend downward in price in the near future, leading to their greater acceptance over CCFLs.
Your idea of better is actually ... obsolete.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@Watcher3223 Uhm, duh. The reason a lot of people are driving cheap inefficient POS cars instead of German diesels is high initial expense. A lot of people do well to plan savings on next weeks food by shopping sales. And LEDs aren't true substitutes for CFL or Incandescent bulbs - when the LED marketers stop playing games with lumens (i.e. lying), maybe they'll have some credibility to go along with that high price tag. BTW, better today IS better than "better" some happy day in the future.
47f0 9 months ago
@47f0
"The reason a lot of people are driving cheap inefficient POS cars instead of German diesels is high initial expense"
Of course, the high initial expense of an LED light is nowhere near as dramatic as the initial expense of a German diesel automobile.
Plus, an LED may pay for itself within a year or so of use through energy savings whereas the high initial price of a premium automobile may not see such a return in the investment so soon.
Your counter argument is a false dilemma.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@47f0 and the fact that the "german diesel" car will prematurely fall apart around the engine.
jz78817 3 months ago
@jz78817 - Please. There are still a zillion 300Ds running around. You may be thinking about the crap American diesels that GM created by trying to lightly modify a gas engine. When Benz brought the Bluetec diesel to America, they had the FIA randomly select three cars, and ship them to a track in Laredo TX. where they were pounded by rotating shifts of drivers, 24/7 for 30 days averaging aver 100,000 miles each at about 140 mph with zero mechanical failures. Premature failure? Hardly.
47f0 3 months ago
@47f0 can you read? I said the car would fall apart around the engine, and given VW and Mercedes' crap reliability/quality in recent years I stand by what I said. I don't care how long the engine lasts if the electrical system is f***ing up every other day.
Oh, and the W124 hasn't been made since the early '90s. if you're going to tout German cars as some paragon of longevity, you might want to talk about what people can buy now and not something almost 20 years old.
jz78817 3 months ago
@jz78817 - I read fine - do you? One sentence about the 300D (I was referring to the W123/W126, BTW) and the rest about the E-class Bluetec, which is available at your Benz dealer now. (Memo: never use more than one sentence for the A.D.D. YouTube crowd). But, your thinking is interesting. I can only discuss longevity for cars you can buy today. Hmmm. Because 30-year-old cars that run fine today with a quarter million miles on them has nothing to do with longevity. Hokay.
47f0 3 months ago
@47f0
"I'd love to light my house with stored solar crystals - except that's science fiction that doesn't exist (yet)."
And this non sequitur coincides with the discussion, how?
LED lighting is not science fiction.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@Watcher3223 - no LED lighting is not science fiction - but it is a product that has only niche applications for those with the disposable income to toss on vague future promises of increased cost/efficiency numbers. LEDs are currently viable only where other expenses outweigh their current cost, like portable lighting where batteries are the main expense, or traffic control lights where maintenance is a big factor. They're just not there yet for Joe Homeowner, and probably won't be soon.
47f0 9 months ago
@47f0 "but it is a product that has only niche applications for those with the disposable income to toss on vague future promises of increased cost/efficiency numbers"
LED lights are not THAT expensive. They are priced higher than CCFLs, but they are still within the realm of affordability, especially as an LED system is likely to be less electrically complex (no components necessary for converting household power to high voltage required to power the CCFL element) and more energy efficient.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@47f0
The lower electrical complexity means a greater chance of an LED light to be more reliable than a CCFL, which means less likelihood of replacement under normal use.
It's easier to make a reliable high freq. power supply to service the LEDs than a high voltage system to service the CFL for the limited space.
Plus, LEDs require less energy, so less money is required to pay for energy.
LED lighting is practical enough for the high retail price to be offset by the savings in 1-2 years.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@Watcher3223 Many LED based lamps are less efficient than compact fluorescent lamps (one LED lamp I've seen had an efficiency of 12lm/W, which is the same as a 40W incandescent lamp), so the reduced power consumption means that the lamp will be dimmer than a similarly rated CFL. Another problem is that the lamps in this video have an operational heatsink temperature of around 160°F at room temperature, so the LEDs will roast and die early.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"one LED lamp I've seen had an efficiency of 12lm/W, which is the same as a 40W incandescent lamp"
Old hat.
There have been a lot of developments with LED lighting that have resulted in products available today with over 60 lumens per watt.
An example is the current line of Philips AmbientLED A19 bulbs that debuted a couple of months ago, which includes a bulb indicated as a 60 watt replacement rated at 800 lumens at 2700 kelvin at 12.5 watts with a six year warranty.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 The lamp in question was made a few months ago. Also, LED efficiency ratings do not account for the often severe light depreciation that LED lamps have (one LED I got from a dead night light was dimmer than a cheapo $1.95 for 100 indicator LED after a few thousand hours of operation). And that AmbientLED lamp you speak of costs forty bucks (and that cannot go much lower, as it uses 18 Luxeon Rebel LEDs, which are not cheap) and runs very hot.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"The lamp in question was made a few months ago"
Specify brand and model.
"Also, LED efficiency ratings do not account for the often severe light depreciation that LED lamps have."
Depends on the quality of parts used.
"And that AmbientLED lamp you speak of costs forty bucks and runs very hot."
Yet it is warranted for six years. If it fails before the warranty expiration, replace it under warranty. The remedy is going to be a new LED lamp free of charge.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 That lamp is one of the Philips candelabra base lamps Home Depot sells (the 2.5W 30lm one). Another LED lamp they carry (7W 155lm reflector lamp) has an efficiency of just over 22lm/W. These multiwatt LED lamps also run hot, as I have measured up to a 90°F temperature rise above ambient on my 8W EcoSmart PAR20 lamp, my 9W A19 EcoSmart lamp and my 8W AmbientLED lamp. Heat + LEDs = bad. And the EcoSmart lamps have efficiencies under 50lm/W.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"That lamp is one of the Philips candelabra base lamps Home Depot sells (the 2.5W 30lm one)"
Doesn't exactly compare to an A19.
"These multiwatt LED lamps also run hot, as I have measured up to a 90°F temperature rise above ambient on my 8W EcoSmart PAR20 lamp"
Are your EcoSmart lamps still working and are still usable? If so, then the thermal dissipation is doing its job and the product is covered under a 5 year warranty.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 The problem is the high heat generated by the lamp. Heat is the primary reason for LED failure in these applications, and their being run at these temperatures (considering that the plastic heatsink material has a thermal resistance of a few degrees Fahrenheit per watt, the LED dies are running at much more than the heatsink surface temperature) the LED lifetime and efficiency are both adversely affected.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
Are any of the LED lights you have identified in the applications you are using are failing due to thermal stress?
And, if any have, have you claimed your remedy via the warranty?
My question is whether or not the design is working well enough to keep the heat from damaging the LED elements.
And the fact that there is a warranty lasting from three to six years indicates the manufacturer's confidence in the durability of the product.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 These lamps use a plastic heatsink material (plastic/graphite mix; graphite lowers the thermal resistance). This is lighter, cheaper and doesn't pose the potential electrocution hazard of a copper or aluminum heatsink, but has a much higher thermal resistance. So their stock thermal management is an inherent flaw in their design unless some form of refrigeration is incorporated (costly, inefficient and impractical, so this isn't done).
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
Please answer the question I posed.
As for the use of a plastic heatsink, if it does the job in accordance to the design, then it does the job.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 The LED nightlight failed after the 90 day warranty on it. As to the LED lamp thermal management, these may work as designed, but that design is not a good one. The problems these lamps have with thermal design is due to their manufacturers trying to stick the niche technology of LEDs into the universal realm of the incandescent lamp. Adequate cooling of these LED lamps cannot be easily done if they are supposed to fit wherever an incandescent lamp can.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321 "The LED nightlight failed after the 90 day warranty on it"
A night light? I don't think you ever mentioned a night light.
And, what about an LED lamp that has a warranty that spans years?
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 The comment in question was made a few days ago. "Also, LED efficiency ratings do not account for the often severe light depreciation that LED lamps have (one LED I got from a dead night light was dimmer than a cheapo $1.95 for 100 indicator LED after a few thousand hours of operation)." White LEDs often do this well short of their rated lifetimes as heat from the die roasts the YAG phosphor (the yellow stuff you see in white LEDs).
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"The comment in question was made a few days ago"
Make and model?
"Also, LED efficiency ratings do not account for the often severe light depreciation that LED lamps have"
Then why mention efficiency in the first place? Plus, if efficiency decreases below acceptable levels, claim warranty remedy.
"White LEDs often do this well short of their rated lifetimes as heat from the die roasts the YAG phosphor"
Again. If it fails, claim on the warranty. A19 Philips = 6 years.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 The night light was some generic Chinese made crap from Home Depot, purchased in late 2007. With regards to the warranty, they usually contain loads of boilerplate, within which are warnings about not using said lamp in enclosed fixtures, with electronic switching devices, etc. These caveats give them loopholes with which they can reject the warranty claim. Considering that the manufacturers of these lamps are whole hog in with the "green" scam, anything they say is suspect.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"The night light was some generic Chinese made crap from Home Depot, purchased in late 2007."
Then that explains a lot with regards to the night light.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"These caveats give them loopholes with which they can reject the warranty claim"
You can only go so far with loopholes; there is the notion of good faith behind the warranty.
Plus, just because it's possible doesn't mean that the warranty won't be honored; the point is that, unless you try, you can't really know.
Odds are they may, especially established companies with reputations to protect.
Plus, a disqualifying condition has to be proven to invalidate coverage.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 I do not think many established lighting brand give a fig with regards to their reputations, as most have pissed away the quality of their products in recent years. GE has shipped of their GLS incandescent production to China, and the glasswork and general workmanship on these lamps is horrible. Even their remaining US made lamps suck (off center filaments, fill gas oxygen contamination, etc.). Same with Philips and their Chinese lamps, when their Mexican ones were passable.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"I do not think many established lighting brand give a fig with regards to their reputations, as most have pissed away the quality of their products in recent years"
That's a subjective argument.
And, there are companies, including big ones, that do care about their reputations.
If they suffer enough in that regard, customers have an interesting tendency to avoid them.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 The degeneration of product quality with time is a common thing. Plus, the big name lighting manufacturers have cast their lot with the government mandating these flawed 'green' replacement technologies, so the end user will have no choice. Take how they were among the big pushers of the idiotic incandescent lamp ban a few years back. To them, the feds>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the consumer.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"Plus, the big name lighting manufacturers have cast their lot with the government mandating these flawed 'green' replacement technologies, so the end user will have no choice"
Though the argument turned political, here's what you do: vote out those who legislated a ban and vote in those who'll work towards repeal.
And, I admit this much; I prefer the free market work it out as that'd force CCFLs and LEDs to develop more competitively with incandescents on the market's terms.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@Watcher3223 The problem with elections is that we have just the stupid party and the evil party. With regards to the market, CFLs and LEDs would never replace many incandescent lamps, as CFLs are only good for certain incandescent applications (no frequent starting, good air circulation, no 'other than dry contacts' switches, no enclosed fixtures, etc.). LEDs are good for low brightness to medium brightness indicator applications and certain low brightness illumination applications.
randacnam7321 7 months ago
@randacnam7321 "The problem with elections is that we have just the stupid party and the evil party."
And it's usually with people who have been in the game longer than they should, which is why we need term limits and to get rid of the lame duck session. And there can be more than two parties, but of course the change takes time.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
Now, that's not to say that there are companies that may not care. But, I don't believe they don't care to the point where they may be open to being passed by their competition.
"GE has shipped of their GLS incandescent production to China, and the glasswork and general workmanship on these lamps is horrible."
They're also a major provider of CCFLs and LEDs. If they couldn't get simple incandescents right, then what's the point of getting anything more advanced from them?
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
That said, with regard to their Chinese made lighting products, do you have anything beyond personal experience to prove a trend within a substantial enough sample?
Personally, I'd prefer lighting that's, of course, made in the USA. However, are any such products to be had?
Short and simple answer: no
So, what other choice is there, except candles or the dark?
In addition, are defects prevalent enough to actually be a problem that enough people are complaining about them?
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
However, a warranty is a warranty.
You snub enough people on the warranty, you invite a particular problem that nobody wants to be on the receiving end of: a potential class action lawsuit.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
Of course, warranty coverage can be denied still, but then if that becomes standard practice to deny coverage to too many lights that fail within the coverage period, that creates a bad impression that may make people stay away from the product and possibly even the company itself; people do not like to be taken for a ride, especially a second time.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
But, if reliability remains a question (if you find LEDs to be too unreliable, CCFLs have their own quirks as well because of the challenges of dealing with high voltages required to drive the florescent lamp; high voltage stress means parts wear out), then stockpile on incandescent lamps.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
"And the EcoSmart lamps have efficiencies under 50lm/W."
Your EcoSmart PAR20 is rated at 350 lumens (approx. 43 lumens per watt) and is indicated as a 40 watt PAR20 halogen replacement.
A typical PAR20 halogen is rated for 360 lumens; a 10 lumen difference. Big whoop. But, here's the clincher: a PAR20 halogen is approximately 9 lumens per watt. (360 lumens divided by rated wattage)
Seems to me like your PAR20 LED lamp is fine and more efficient than the halogen it replaced.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
And, if your Philips EnduraLED candlebra lamps failed within the manufacturer's three year warranty, did you use the warranty?
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@randacnam7321
LED lighting has progressed rather dramatically even since this video was produced in December 30, 2010.
Watcher3223 7 months ago
@47f0
"traffic control lights where maintenance is a big factor"
The problem with this contention is the fact that LEDs manufactured for traffic control may be made in a way that caters to the particular characteristics of that task, including being in operation 24/7 with higher levels of power cycling than would be typical in a home setting.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@47f0
"They're just not there yet for Joe Homeowner, and probably won't be soon."
Disagreed. These products are available at consumer retail right now and will likely see a reduction in price as adoption increases.
Watcher3223 9 months ago
@WOWitsCAGY LOL
gmatochautube 10 months ago 4
I recently picked one of these up at Home depot $39 in Canada. I was surprised at how well it works and agree with your findings. they color is great. as close to incandescent as the other CFLs I tried in comparison. seems brighter than a 40W incandescent. and far brighter than long life incandescent. I confirmed this with a photo light meter. also its instant on and will dim no almost out and will restart on the dimmer at the same level Hope the price comes down! great bulb.
ve3dvy 10 months ago
I remember hearing that CFL's are not good for low traffic areas like a bathroom because turning on and off reduces their lifespan and requires more energy or something? That they run on 3 hours cycles or something, does the LED do that as well? I keep incandescents in my bathroom for this reason, so curious if the LED is similar to the CFL in that regard, thanks.
luxeluxe 11 months ago
@luxeluxe That's a good question. That pattern of usage is hard on many kinds of electronics - incandescent bulbs included. But it is definitely harder on CFLs and does shorten their lives - some brands more than others. As for the LED's themselves, they are not very susceptible to damage from power cycling, but the power supply electronics certainly could be. Since LED's are so new, few people (without conducting some specific testing) yet have real-world experience with these bulbs.
gmatochautube 11 months ago
@gmatochautube Big thanks. : )
luxeluxe 10 months ago
@gmatochautube as long as they dont contain mercury like those damn energy saving bulbs do im fine
informationwarfare 8 months ago
@gmatochautube LED's are not new technology.. All those indicator lights you see on your stereos use LED's and have so since the 1980's. LED's are an old technology with vast improvement in light output to the point that they are able to replace incandescent lights..
EETechs 4 months ago
@luxeluxe CFL's are fine for low traffic areas. A short duty cycle does decrease the number of total "on hours". But the duty cycle needs to be less than about 5 minutes before they decline 90%, to the poor "on hours" lifetime of incandescents. Say you turn a 100w equivalent CFL on for 5 minutes, 10 times a day. Its still going to last you 3.25+ years. It's still going to save you $6 in life-cycle cost over incandescent. You'd have to stand and flip the switch continuously for the CFL to lose.
sbergman27 9 months ago
@luxeluxe i think cfls should be for low traffic areas, due to flickering. incandescent if ur reading a book.
poiiihy 4 months ago
You've done an amazing job in capturing the features of these LED bulbs. I encourage people to become early adopters of LED technology. The yellow tipped 60W replacement is a wonderful bulb. I am considering the 40W replacement. My review of the bulb for Home Depot was rejected because I discussed mercury and the poisoning of the people who produce the bulbs in China's factories. In addition, I suggested that someday CFLs won't be recommended in carpeted areas or in children's rooms.
randem2 1 year ago
On Home Depot's website, I'm only seeing an EcoSmart 8 watt-ish and a yellow 12 watt-ish Phillips.
paremphasis 1 year ago
thank you, this review was very informative. especially the part about the phosphorous induced plastic, good research.
MIGHTYcbu 1 year ago
No they are not a national retailer...which is a big plus for me. I had too many bad experiences with national retailers...poor quality...poor products..cheap prices...you get what you pay for from national retailers! Did you let a voicemail message? I found them to be a very busy company but they always promptly returned my calls within 12 business hours . But hey I could care less what bulb you like. Was just trying to be helpful! I found what works the best for me so tats all tat matters.
thesmiths041 1 year ago
Did you get them fast? Were they shipped the next day? That's what in my book I called excellent customer service. But hey like I said...your life ...your opinions. Its a free world!
thesmiths041 1 year ago
@thesmiths041 Review posted. See my new video.
gmatochautube 1 year ago
per watt meter, my bulb runs on 4.9-5 watts.
thesmiths041 1 year ago
Sorry but I disagree with you...Philips is NOT the best LED bulb out there! Not only do they have an ugly look, they also do NOT have the life nor efficiency nor specs that you could get for your moneys worth.
You can buy a 6 watt bulb that actually runs on 5 watts that is an equivalent to 40-50 watts incandescent and comes in a warm white that looks like an incandescent withOUT that ugly yellow looking stuff. It's only $19.99 and comes witha 3 year full replacement guarantee AND 50,000 hours
thesmiths041 1 year ago
I found them at 877-NRG-SOLUTIONS. All you do is call them and order and they ship them out FAST! I got mine within days of ordering...right to my door step. They look as much like an incandescent as you'll ever find. They have LEDs for any kind of bulb you ever need..even for flourescents &candlebra. They have EXCELLENT customer service.Glad my friend referred me cple mnths ago!
I did extensive research on LEDs and found out that you can't beat their price for quality of bulb anywhere else.
thesmiths041 1 year ago
@thesmiths041
@thesmiths041
NRG Solutions is reselling TESS bulbs. I have two on order (40W and 60W equivalent). A little research on these bulbs indicate they may be very directional since they use the same surface mount LEDs often used in flood light designs, but with a frosted plastic cover to give them the look of a bulb. I will post review once I get them. As for NRG's "excellent customer service", I called three times and twice got an answering machine. They're not a major retailer.
gmatochautube 1 year ago
@thesmiths041 Sounds like an ad to me.
paremphasis 1 year ago
@thesmiths041 This bulb consumes 7 watts per my watt meter. I can only rate temperature and lumens subjectively, but as I stated in the video, IMO they are spot on or even a little underrated. As for life, we'll have to wait and see. I make not claim that this bulb is the "best bulb out there." As stated, there are several companies producing this type of bulb. Presumably NRG-SOLUTIONS is reselling one of those. I'll call them up and see what they have to offer. Fans - wait for another review!
gmatochautube 1 year ago
I too am excited by LEDs. It is the way to save lots of money and reduce pollution. Thanks to you and your daughter (I believe she is your daughter) for producing this review! I was surprised to see how closely all bulbs in the fan unit seemed to have the same color quality. Keep more coming!
FossMtnFilm 1 year ago
Thank you for this! I suspect I'll have to invest in the 40w with the plastic covering, though I'm curious to see what the one without looks like in action.
JoeTR 1 year ago