Because of peak oil you couldn't get job recovery even if you wanted it. Theres only one reason the economy is being kept alive and that is for the military to finish it's mission and then the PTB are going to kill everybody off by turning off the electricity in the middle of winter,... and going into their underground cities to wait for the die-off, which won't take that long. What, 90-95% in 6 mo. Everything runs on electricity and without it everybody dies.
thank goodness for Paul C Roberts. stupid conservatives always blaming innocent Roosevelt. PUT UP the tariffs!!!!! protect our trade. get rid of this neoliberal insane trade policy.
we didnt lose jobs because of low cost labor overseas. there was always low cost labor overseas, why are we just now using it? because of too much government regulations and money printing by the fed and its banking cartel, making us uncompetitive.
@michaelpshipley1 Your are missing an extremely important aspect... the conditions are not even remotely similar. In the 1800's, transportation was pretty poor, getting material and merchandise from one place to another was cumbersome, and labor was not equal all over. Today, transportation is relatively cheap, technology allows for easy fabrication, and labor of manufacturing quality is available everywhere, even in remote parts of Peru or whatever. The times were different on many levels.
in a free market with no government interference we would have no problem with jobs. no need for centralized government protectionism because we would be the low cost producer. its how we beat the world in the 1800s.
@michaelpshipley1 OK, but recall that working conditions sucked, hours were long, working 16 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week, no benefits, no real reason to go back to the job except that all jobs were basically bad. People died all the time, and it's because of the outrage and labor unrest / protest that working conditions changed, and wages went up to livable standards. That's a little disingenuous because the wages rising ended up with capital raising costs, to recoup said expense.
Well a simple outlook on the economy and the wealth of a nation is like this... No jobs, no spending, no business, no profits, no money, no rich folks, because the money isn't worth anything, hey guess what? we're broke!
Instead of addressing how the quest for lower wage labor allows capital to justify devastation of labor / nations, we have a defense of protectionism. Just fucking miraculous. People, you would not need to engage in protectionism, if you change the ultimate goal / value of capital within a socio-economic system. Capitalism fails because it undermines life, in favor of currency. This is clearly why people are suffering. What will it take to make you acknowledge this? Border != problem.
@Ranger4564 Capitalism didn't fail, it was the Government monetary policy (the FED) that created this fucking bubble. If they kept interest rates above 8% no real estate bubble would have happen.
@Ellipsis10 You didn't read anything I've written. I didn't say it failed because of the bubble that seems to be bothering you. I said it failed because it fails humanity. Many many billions of them, each day or every year. You may not be one of those suffering from the worst conditions created by capitalism, but it certainly causes suffering for a vast majority of the population of the world.
"Capitalism undermines life in favor of currency."
What utter nonsense.
Capitalism at it's most basic is Reward equal to Effort. People don't work without incentive, and prosperity or "more" is good incentive. A caveman who kills two animals, one for food and the other for trade, is a capitalist. So is a farmer who expands his vegetable field's size.
If you want to blame anything, blame fascist intervention in the free market, courtesy of the central banking cartel.
@LordDyhalto Really? Capitalism is reward equal to effort? Really? People don't do work witout incentive? Really? Prosperity or more is a good incentive? Really? A caveman acapitalist? Really?
Okay so you are clearly aying depite te HUGE AMMOUNT OF EVIDENCE against wanton isims capitalisim, communisim, facisim, e.t.c. Your still happy to stik with a system of command and control. Okay then well I guess you miss the point.
@LordDyhalto capitalisim as a pesudo democratic system has flaws which are inerent in it's oucomes for indivduals. These outcomes cannot be achieved with out assimilation into a highly manafactured way of life. Thus to maintain the rowh motive capatilisim as a mode of social construction favours controlling people to return capital to those whow would 'grow the system' hence the command and control as only those who are in control have the wealth of capital.
First off, capitalism is not a "pseudo democratic system". It has nothing to do with the system or size of government.
The government, however, will often involve itself in the capitalist system.
Secondly, the capitalist system favors no one. If one group is in the commanding position of an economy, it is only a matter of time before they are forced to step up or be overtaken by a superior force of progress.
@LordDyhalto 1. Captilisim has a lot to do with the size of govenrment. Hence the 40,000 lobbyists in Washington who influence everything to do with government... IN THE NAME OF CAPITAL to name but a few. 2. The system of capital favours those with the ability to create capital in signifigant ammounts. It does not favour the majority of people who can barely scrape together enough to get by according to the OECD. 'Superior force of progress'. Great progress around the world at the moment eh?
I knew you would eventually fall back to the "look at America" card. Anti-capitalists always do.
Anybody who knows anything knows that America's current hijacked system is anything but capitalism. "Crony capitalism" is a term sometimes used though.
@LordDyhalto Okay first of all, I attack your points not you sir, whilst emperical evidence shows that what you say is factually incorrect I will defend to the death your right to say it. Secondly, To defend a system that is used BY EVERY ALMOST EVERY WESTERN NATION in the world to continue to shift the wealth of the world into the hands of a few yey tiny number of people whilst other starve is indeed the motive of indoctrinated individuals. You my trick ponie friend are the true loser.
@LordDyhalto You really don't get it. First, I was being a little abstract on purpose, but Capitalism is not concerned with society or humanity, it is concerned with only profit. Second, you and your kind keep making generalized comments about how people only work in forced labor camps where incentive is shoved up their ass, but why don't you first make the assessment whether everyone working for the sake of work is even a healthy situation? How about leisure, or personal interests?
@Ranger4564 See, the issue is, you're stuck in the mode of work. I want work to take a lot less of my time so I can do things that interest me. I want more technological innovation so we can stop working so hard. Lastly, the main point I was making about how capitalism is flawed, is something many of you capitalists refuse to acknowledge. Profit can only come from deficit somewhere. Wealth creates poverty somewhere. The incentive you keep talking about is actually threat of starvation.
@Ranger4564 You want to work your ass off, fine, but why obligate the rest of the world to do the same? You know what, there is so much food grown in the world, and much of it is automated (robotic machines) that we could feed the world but we don't and won't, to make sure they are converts to capitalism? Please note, not everyone had the same fortune to be born in a well to do society. They're not lazy, they're underprivileged. You would probably be dying also in a 3rd world country.
@LordDyhalto I'm not blaming free market capitalism because someone taught me to, I'm doing so because I thought about it and the system seems illogical. Re machines built because of capitalist zeal; my point is that we could actually develop another "incentive" other than profit, and people would still aspire to making things... especially if it meant free time, or benefits to society such as surplus. Regardless of progress, I cannot support a system that intentionally undermines the majority.
@LordDyhalto I know people have been making tools for millenia, perhaps Thousands of centuries... so it's not like the capitalist of the past 400 years has any special claim to being tool friendly. And note, many technological innovations came out of different parts of the world, with different systems of exchange. Both intellectually and technologically. My argument is, you don't need money and the threat of poverty to spur innovation... hell, the Greeks did it, and they had slavery. :o
@LordDyhalto Point is, as long as you have surplus, you can have progress.
Regarding wealth... you could grow surplus crops, and hold them as a form of wealth. In that type of case, you are not depriving anyone... as soon as you sell it at lower cost than a competitor, you are. Wealth that I was thinking of is accumulation of currency, which is procured through profitable transactions, which intrinsically means there were people who lost on the deals. See what I mean?
I know what you mean. I have a job, but I like to bum around too.
That Venus Project sure looks nice and all, but we're a long way from it. Are you going to blame everything and everyone until someone else builds it for you?
Also, "wealth creates poverty somewhere" is nonsense. Wealth is only created and transferred. Like energy, it is never destroyed. It takes two to transact.
@LordDyhalto You misunderstand. I am not intrinsicly lazy... in fact, I work very hard, but most of my energy is spent on things I'm passionate about. My point is, let's free people from meaningless work which is mostly paper shuffling and money laundering, for the sake of having a capitalist system... let's put people to real work, work they could enjoy, let's educate people to their fullest, not to fit a social role, but to fit their potential...honestly, I could go on but YT has these boxes.
@LordDyhalto FYI, I'm 46, a lifelong socialist / communist. I've spent my entire life thinking about this stuff... since I was 2 and asked why there are beggars on the street, and why I'm not begging like them. I didn't learn from the Zeitgeist or Venus proj... they say a lot of what I have independently concluded, because any intelligent person, who openmindedly analyzes the worlds systems will essentially come to the same conclusions we came to. Capitalism is brutal; machines can be useful.
@LordDyhalto No... profit creates wealth, as do some other transitory phenomenon, but the end result is, wealth is transacted in currency, and given that there is a finite currency, wealth requires that poverty exists somewhere. By the way, wealth and poverty are relative terms, they're not absolute. Wealth is in relation to not so wealthy and poor. Poverty is in relation to not so poor and wealthy. But wealth is not created out of nothing, it comes from the poor. That is why there are poor.
On your first point, "profit" has become a bad word thanks to speculative greed. Kind of like how the swastika was perverted by the nazis.
Grow up.
On your second point, "Me and my kind" have made no comments about forced work camps or forced incentives. You, like many people, are clumping all the bad "-isms" and "-ologies" into "capitalism" and blaming it.
Free market capitalism works as long as it remains free. In our current era of history, it isn't.
@LordDyhalto No man, think about it. Profit is just an exrta bit for you, on top of an otherwise equitable exchange. The problem with that is that profit for you = deficit for someone else. That is precisely how wealth is created. Accumulation of assets is an egregious representation of the profit / deficit equation as repeated exploitation allows for "savings" (surplus in profit). The whole point is not that you doing well is bad, it's that in order to do so, you have to undermine someone.
Thanks for the interesting food for thought. Nice to see this didn't degrade into mud-slinging, though I apologize for almost provoking it.
I think your analysis of capitalism takes into account too many non-capitalist interventions like central bank's finite debt-based money and corporate suppression of innovation.
Long term, you're right. We should shoot for broader horizons and aim for an era where humanity is only interested in the pursuit of science, the arts, and spreading our culture beyond earth.
I just think we're far from it, and a liberated truly free market would enable us to advance there faster than any socialist/communist forced-wealth-redistribution systems.
@LordDyhalto Agreed... I appreciate the thoughtful information for me to consider as well. I don't mean to drag everything into a discussion about capitalism, but I have a strong feeling that most of the things I am bringing up are intrinsicly linked, and not some dissociated circumstance. Also, I mispoke... you growing crops to create wealth could also be a form of competition, especially if you deprive others equal access to land. In fact, private property / ownership causes many problems. \ /
I have noted that in history, when a nation/power starts to lose control of its borders, for whatever reason, then it is the beginning of the end. You can see it in Rome, Muslim spread during the early middle ages, Byzantines, China, & even Britain. Yep, it may not be necessarily the cause, but it sure is a prerequisite sign.
i like this show because the host let his guest speak his/her points. nice! watch Max Keizer report as well on RT. great show from Max
crumcon 6 months ago
Because of peak oil you couldn't get job recovery even if you wanted it. Theres only one reason the economy is being kept alive and that is for the military to finish it's mission and then the PTB are going to kill everybody off by turning off the electricity in the middle of winter,... and going into their underground cities to wait for the die-off, which won't take that long. What, 90-95% in 6 mo. Everything runs on electricity and without it everybody dies.
gary97209 1 year ago 2
thank goodness for Paul C Roberts. stupid conservatives always blaming innocent Roosevelt. PUT UP the tariffs!!!!! protect our trade. get rid of this neoliberal insane trade policy.
mrzack888 1 year ago
we didnt lose jobs because of low cost labor overseas. there was always low cost labor overseas, why are we just now using it? because of too much government regulations and money printing by the fed and its banking cartel, making us uncompetitive.
michaelpshipley1 1 year ago
@michaelpshipley1 Your are missing an extremely important aspect... the conditions are not even remotely similar. In the 1800's, transportation was pretty poor, getting material and merchandise from one place to another was cumbersome, and labor was not equal all over. Today, transportation is relatively cheap, technology allows for easy fabrication, and labor of manufacturing quality is available everywhere, even in remote parts of Peru or whatever. The times were different on many levels.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
in a free market with no government interference we would have no problem with jobs. no need for centralized government protectionism because we would be the low cost producer. its how we beat the world in the 1800s.
michaelpshipley1 1 year ago
@michaelpshipley1 OK, but recall that working conditions sucked, hours were long, working 16 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week, no benefits, no real reason to go back to the job except that all jobs were basically bad. People died all the time, and it's because of the outrage and labor unrest / protest that working conditions changed, and wages went up to livable standards. That's a little disingenuous because the wages rising ended up with capital raising costs, to recoup said expense.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
Unions are destroyed?? What about the public unions who are demanding the last of the lifeblood of the productive economy?
elricmlbone 1 year ago
@elricmlbone ineffective unions are worse than having none in most cases see. Tuhoy (2001).
CyberAthletethefirst 1 year ago
WOW what a depressing interview! .....we're all Fked!
Ellipsis10 1 year ago
How can I fool someone in to taking my job? Is press-ganging still legal?
OghamTheBold 1 year ago
Well a simple outlook on the economy and the wealth of a nation is like this... No jobs, no spending, no business, no profits, no money, no rich folks, because the money isn't worth anything, hey guess what? we're broke!
lkevins1 1 year ago
(•̪●) They took our jerbs!!
elite1980s 1 year ago
@elite1980s That's your IDEEARR
junevi2000 1 year ago
Instead of addressing how the quest for lower wage labor allows capital to justify devastation of labor / nations, we have a defense of protectionism. Just fucking miraculous. People, you would not need to engage in protectionism, if you change the ultimate goal / value of capital within a socio-economic system. Capitalism fails because it undermines life, in favor of currency. This is clearly why people are suffering. What will it take to make you acknowledge this? Border != problem.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ranger4564 Capitalism didn't fail, it was the Government monetary policy (the FED) that created this fucking bubble. If they kept interest rates above 8% no real estate bubble would have happen.
Ellipsis10 1 year ago
@Ellipsis10 You didn't read anything I've written. I didn't say it failed because of the bubble that seems to be bothering you. I said it failed because it fails humanity. Many many billions of them, each day or every year. You may not be one of those suffering from the worst conditions created by capitalism, but it certainly causes suffering for a vast majority of the population of the world.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ellipsis10 we had 1 percent at one stage here and we still hae a huge freaking bubble in NZ so um yeah...
CyberAthletethefirst 1 year ago
@Ranger4564
"Capitalism undermines life in favor of currency."
What utter nonsense.
Capitalism at it's most basic is Reward equal to Effort. People don't work without incentive, and prosperity or "more" is good incentive. A caveman who kills two animals, one for food and the other for trade, is a capitalist. So is a farmer who expands his vegetable field's size.
If you want to blame anything, blame fascist intervention in the free market, courtesy of the central banking cartel.
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto Really? Capitalism is reward equal to effort? Really? People don't do work witout incentive? Really? Prosperity or more is a good incentive? Really? A caveman acapitalist? Really?
Okay so you are clearly aying depite te HUGE AMMOUNT OF EVIDENCE against wanton isims capitalisim, communisim, facisim, e.t.c. Your still happy to stik with a system of command and control. Okay then well I guess you miss the point.
CyberAthletethefirst 1 year ago
@CyberAthletethefirst
Uh huh. Exactly what part of capitalism is "command and control"?
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto capitalisim as a pesudo democratic system has flaws which are inerent in it's oucomes for indivduals. These outcomes cannot be achieved with out assimilation into a highly manafactured way of life. Thus to maintain the rowh motive capatilisim as a mode of social construction favours controlling people to return capital to those whow would 'grow the system' hence the command and control as only those who are in control have the wealth of capital.
CyberAthletethefirst 1 year ago
@CyberAthletethefirst
First off, capitalism is not a "pseudo democratic system". It has nothing to do with the system or size of government.
The government, however, will often involve itself in the capitalist system.
Secondly, the capitalist system favors no one. If one group is in the commanding position of an economy, it is only a matter of time before they are forced to step up or be overtaken by a superior force of progress.
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto 1. Captilisim has a lot to do with the size of govenrment. Hence the 40,000 lobbyists in Washington who influence everything to do with government... IN THE NAME OF CAPITAL to name but a few. 2. The system of capital favours those with the ability to create capital in signifigant ammounts. It does not favour the majority of people who can barely scrape together enough to get by according to the OECD. 'Superior force of progress'. Great progress around the world at the moment eh?
CyberAthletethefirst 1 year ago
@CyberAthletethefirst
I knew you would eventually fall back to the "look at America" card. Anti-capitalists always do.
Anybody who knows anything knows that America's current hijacked system is anything but capitalism. "Crony capitalism" is a term sometimes used though.
You lose.
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto Okay first of all, I attack your points not you sir, whilst emperical evidence shows that what you say is factually incorrect I will defend to the death your right to say it. Secondly, To defend a system that is used BY EVERY ALMOST EVERY WESTERN NATION in the world to continue to shift the wealth of the world into the hands of a few yey tiny number of people whilst other starve is indeed the motive of indoctrinated individuals. You my trick ponie friend are the true loser.
CyberAthletethefirst 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto You really don't get it. First, I was being a little abstract on purpose, but Capitalism is not concerned with society or humanity, it is concerned with only profit. Second, you and your kind keep making generalized comments about how people only work in forced labor camps where incentive is shoved up their ass, but why don't you first make the assessment whether everyone working for the sake of work is even a healthy situation? How about leisure, or personal interests?
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ranger4564 See, the issue is, you're stuck in the mode of work. I want work to take a lot less of my time so I can do things that interest me. I want more technological innovation so we can stop working so hard. Lastly, the main point I was making about how capitalism is flawed, is something many of you capitalists refuse to acknowledge. Profit can only come from deficit somewhere. Wealth creates poverty somewhere. The incentive you keep talking about is actually threat of starvation.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ranger4564 You want to work your ass off, fine, but why obligate the rest of the world to do the same? You know what, there is so much food grown in the world, and much of it is automated (robotic machines) that we could feed the world but we don't and won't, to make sure they are converts to capitalism? Please note, not everyone had the same fortune to be born in a well to do society. They're not lazy, they're underprivileged. You would probably be dying also in a 3rd world country.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ranger4564
God, man....
Why do you think we have those machines?
It's because a capitalist invented them to better his life. For your dreaded "profit".
You don't buy into the other mainstream media.... why do you buy into them blaming "free market capitalism"?
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto I'm not blaming free market capitalism because someone taught me to, I'm doing so because I thought about it and the system seems illogical. Re machines built because of capitalist zeal; my point is that we could actually develop another "incentive" other than profit, and people would still aspire to making things... especially if it meant free time, or benefits to society such as surplus. Regardless of progress, I cannot support a system that intentionally undermines the majority.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto I know people have been making tools for millenia, perhaps Thousands of centuries... so it's not like the capitalist of the past 400 years has any special claim to being tool friendly. And note, many technological innovations came out of different parts of the world, with different systems of exchange. Both intellectually and technologically. My argument is, you don't need money and the threat of poverty to spur innovation... hell, the Greeks did it, and they had slavery. :o
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto Point is, as long as you have surplus, you can have progress.
Regarding wealth... you could grow surplus crops, and hold them as a form of wealth. In that type of case, you are not depriving anyone... as soon as you sell it at lower cost than a competitor, you are. Wealth that I was thinking of is accumulation of currency, which is procured through profitable transactions, which intrinsically means there were people who lost on the deals. See what I mean?
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ranger4564
I know what you mean. I have a job, but I like to bum around too.
That Venus Project sure looks nice and all, but we're a long way from it. Are you going to blame everything and everyone until someone else builds it for you?
Also, "wealth creates poverty somewhere" is nonsense. Wealth is only created and transferred. Like energy, it is never destroyed. It takes two to transact.
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto You misunderstand. I am not intrinsicly lazy... in fact, I work very hard, but most of my energy is spent on things I'm passionate about. My point is, let's free people from meaningless work which is mostly paper shuffling and money laundering, for the sake of having a capitalist system... let's put people to real work, work they could enjoy, let's educate people to their fullest, not to fit a social role, but to fit their potential...honestly, I could go on but YT has these boxes.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto FYI, I'm 46, a lifelong socialist / communist. I've spent my entire life thinking about this stuff... since I was 2 and asked why there are beggars on the street, and why I'm not begging like them. I didn't learn from the Zeitgeist or Venus proj... they say a lot of what I have independently concluded, because any intelligent person, who openmindedly analyzes the worlds systems will essentially come to the same conclusions we came to. Capitalism is brutal; machines can be useful.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto No... profit creates wealth, as do some other transitory phenomenon, but the end result is, wealth is transacted in currency, and given that there is a finite currency, wealth requires that poverty exists somewhere. By the way, wealth and poverty are relative terms, they're not absolute. Wealth is in relation to not so wealthy and poor. Poverty is in relation to not so poor and wealthy. But wealth is not created out of nothing, it comes from the poor. That is why there are poor.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ranger4564
On your first point, "profit" has become a bad word thanks to speculative greed. Kind of like how the swastika was perverted by the nazis.
Grow up.
On your second point, "Me and my kind" have made no comments about forced work camps or forced incentives. You, like many people, are clumping all the bad "-isms" and "-ologies" into "capitalism" and blaming it.
Free market capitalism works as long as it remains free. In our current era of history, it isn't.
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto No man, think about it. Profit is just an exrta bit for you, on top of an otherwise equitable exchange. The problem with that is that profit for you = deficit for someone else. That is precisely how wealth is created. Accumulation of assets is an egregious representation of the profit / deficit equation as repeated exploitation allows for "savings" (surplus in profit). The whole point is not that you doing well is bad, it's that in order to do so, you have to undermine someone.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@Ranger4564
Well, I can see this is going to go on forever.
Thanks for the interesting food for thought. Nice to see this didn't degrade into mud-slinging, though I apologize for almost provoking it.
I think your analysis of capitalism takes into account too many non-capitalist interventions like central bank's finite debt-based money and corporate suppression of innovation.
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto
Long term, you're right. We should shoot for broader horizons and aim for an era where humanity is only interested in the pursuit of science, the arts, and spreading our culture beyond earth.
I just think we're far from it, and a liberated truly free market would enable us to advance there faster than any socialist/communist forced-wealth-redistribution systems.
In short, I agree to disagree :)
LordDyhalto 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto I'll get back to you on the forced situations. I'm still trying to figure out which system forces more on how many...
Ranger4564 1 year ago
@LordDyhalto Agreed... I appreciate the thoughtful information for me to consider as well. I don't mean to drag everything into a discussion about capitalism, but I have a strong feeling that most of the things I am bringing up are intrinsicly linked, and not some dissociated circumstance. Also, I mispoke... you growing crops to create wealth could also be a form of competition, especially if you deprive others equal access to land. In fact, private property / ownership causes many problems. \ /
Ranger4564 1 year ago
I have noted that in history, when a nation/power starts to lose control of its borders, for whatever reason, then it is the beginning of the end. You can see it in Rome, Muslim spread during the early middle ages, Byzantines, China, & even Britain. Yep, it may not be necessarily the cause, but it sure is a prerequisite sign.
suzettespencer 1 year ago
@suzettespencer that would make a great literature review. Even a book.
CyberAthletethefirst 1 year ago
Yep - America missed a trick
All those aspiring rocket scientists - for all those unfilled jobs making the next generation of rocket pants (mine are on back order)
PS When I say rocket scientist I don't mean the guy who blew both is arms off with gunpowder making fireworks
OghamTheBold 1 year ago