APS Announces New Solar Power Plant, Among World's Largest

[getdusty1]

This sure makes my 10.5 kilowatt system, 48 panel single pole array look puny!!

[tnguyen318]

That's not a Solar Panel.  It's what we call an oversize square Solar Strip on your Solar Calculator.

[88888FORCE]

Google

Is Building the World's Largest

Solar Tower Power Plant

April-12-2011---Google is investing $168 million to help develop a solar energy power plant in California's Mojave Desert.

In cooperation with Brightsource energy, Google's official blog states that the new plant will hopefully generate 392 gross megawatts of solar power, or "the equivalent of taking more than 90,000 cars off the road over the lifetime of the plant,"

[BluntmanAZ]

Its about time we use Arizona's sun light for something good, its hot as hell here.

[henrykay01]

I invented a breakthrough energy source which violates the law of energy conservation. I have a PROOF that there are electrodynamic phenomena which violate the law of energy conservation (and also experimental evidence of such phenomena). Making a 6 kW generator will cost $1200, value of the energy produced yearly $5400, zero operating costs. I am looking for $300 000 for a prototype and for $3M for patents.

H. Tomasz Grzybowski

tel. +48-512-933-540

[ctk1234]

@henrykay01 What did you figure out nuclear fusion? If it's not that, you must be A LOT smarter that a lot of physicists, including Einstein, Hawking, Maxwell, Faraday, Servant, Carnot, Gauss... and so on.

[henrykay01]

@ctk1234 No. I discovered a group of phenomena which violate the law of energy conservation. Top physicists knew about it since 1861, but it is a well-kept secret.

[ctk1234]

@henrykay01 The only one that would agree would be heisenberg. If you are talking quantum events, or energy mass relations, then yes. Otherwise, it simply doesn't happen that way man. If it did, the whole idea of entropy would be phony.

Carnot simply proved if you invest x energy into a system, you can get UP TO x out, but never x. This deficit is thanks to entropy, or irreversibilities.

So are you suggesting that the total entropy of your system decreases through a cycle?

[ctk1234]

@henrykay01 Not to be rude. I just don't believe you're making an accurate claim. You may have made a nifty device there, but don't walk around telling people it violates the 1st law. That surely will get you nowhere. Now if it uses solar power, or wind (solar) or some other source to explain the "prepetual motion," that's one thing.

If you are stating that dE is not Q-W for your system, I'd love to see your mathematical proof! It would baffle the physics community.

[henrykay01]

@ctk1234 Physical proof, not mathematical. I can send it to you - you have to be familiar with the Maxwell's equations to understand it. My email address is in my contact box.

[danser75]

because when you do anything in bulk its cheaper than a one or two time run... thus if we created 700 of these small solar plants we could do it cheaper than to make one plant thats 700x the sixe and it would be more efficent since we wouldnt have to transport the energy to the customers... we would be making it closer to the end users

[danser75]

ok onething everyone needs to keep in mind is that we also need to be switching more stuff over to more efficent uses of energy... we cant just produce millions of watts of energy to waste on inefficent crap... we need to be improving our current uses of it as well in turn if we couple that with the use of smaller solar plants more often we will end up ahead... yeah its a big investment now but it would be cheaper in the long run

[Bozewani]

I am not shelving it, on the contrary I think it is not going far enough and that's why I mentioned MW output as my arguement.

I feel like it's only a small drop in a great big ocean that this powerplant can only produce about 300 MW. Why not design a solar powerplant which can produce 3000, 4000 kr even 5000 MW. We talk about economies of scale and expenses. Well, if you can produce that kind of energy it would become cheaper

[memphispete1]

The problem is the upfront capital cost. To generate 280 MW, the APS plant required $1B investment. That's Billion. To reach the 5000 MW solution you propose, a company would need to raise between $15-20B for one plant. That's huge.

[DanteWhite]

@memphispete1 then money and capitalism must be abolished for the sake of humanity why cant people do it for the good of mankind to stop the wars for oil and disasters like the recent oil spill in the long run oil costs us more than large scale solar power plants across the world that man in the spirit of solidarity build them

[Bozewani]

How much energy can 280 MW provide anyway in terms of population?

Dosen't sound like a whole hell of a lot. I mean a typical coal plant has about 3,000 MW roughly

[1980TheRealFury]

Not picking on you in particular but this kind of reaction is exactly what people need to avoid. the first coal plant did not output 3000MW either but because the smaller ones were built and upgraded we end up with the more efficient and powerfull ones.

We need to stop comparing renewable energy output to "dirty" energy output and then shelving it because it does not measure up.

[bathedinpestilence]

APS is the most crooked service company I have ever dealt with!

Living in Arizona and being forced to use APS for your electricity needs is very expensive that most people can't afford it. An average bill with APS is over 350 dollars during the summer months. I had to to pay over 500 dollars this month! Now they say I owe them 800 dollars! I live in a new house that is energy efficient! They even make you pay a deposit ever year about 250 dollars! scam!

[skaarzilla]

I do energy audits for a local solar company, and I am finding that a lot of homes that were supposed to be built "energy efficient" were built to the minimum standards for the cert. There are a lot of inexpensive things that can be done to the home to dramatically impact energy consumption. Radiant barriers, insulations, sealing wall and ceiling penetrations, etc.

[Louis69]

The problem with people is that everything has to make money for it to be made. Why can't the government build and maintain a mega solar power plant and pay for it with our tax dollars. Energy should be free anyway and it won't be literally free since our taxes pay for it. Greed/Money will be the death of human kind that is if our idiotic fighting over pretty much everything or climate change at our own hands will do it first. Either way humans need to go extinct for the good of earth.

[gtq838]

now there is a true enviromentalist, humans need to go extinct for the good of earth.

Well clearly the sollution to the problem is to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger... you first

way to be productive, its that kind of irrational bullshit that will actual cause serious problems for the enviroment.

[Louis69]

No cutting down trees for farmland and other uses,overfishing, over populating the world, pollution, the extinction of countless animals not done by nature but mans hand all these things and more are why humans need to go extinct. You don't see these things because you are a virus all you know is multiply and eat and destroy. I stand by my statement.

[gtq838]

I also stand behing my statement that you are an idiot.

You are talking about "me" and "they" never once refering to yourself. I don't see these thing because I'm a virus? first of all you would then be that same virus by definition. second I'm not a virus.

I'm not responding to your retarding comments again. but I also stand by my comment that if you think we should go extinct why don't you pull the trigger and kill your self?

hypocritical bastard

[Louis69]

I feel all of humanity is a virus me included. Me killing myself or you killing yourself which would do the world a great favor would not help. Everyone needs to die or change the way they live or its no use. Sadly you are just like the billions of other morons on this planet that think that things will be ok even tho there is a ton of proof every single day that things are only getting worst.

[DanteWhite]

@Louis69 yes that is why we need to overthrow capitalism and usher in a new society based on liberty equality and solidarity the greedy and the rich who are killing the earth must be overthrown and their criminal system smashed

the answer to our problems lies in a little system i like to call libertarian socialism some call it anarchy but i will not use that name since many in ignorance associate it with chaos

also when u have the time check out project venus ,peace out my concerned comrade

[sammyg429]

I hope they use qualified union labor for this amazing project! I am working on building a new coal fired plant in IL. This is great for our economy producing 3000 well payed union crafts with a steady job for 3-5 years, and 500 permanent jobs!

[azboozehound]

I work for APS... Believe me, this is a great thing. We have plenty of sunshine in Arizona and Gila Bend is a perfect place for this plant. Been there? This plant will be the most amazing thing in the town.

[NeoAltPower]

This means free power, right?

[gtq838]

nope but to make your house self reliant it would only cost you about $40,000 for the average person, and then you just have to worry about replacing about $6,000 in batteries every 10 years...

I don't know how much you pay for electricity but my bill is under $100 per month if I live another 50 years that system would have cost me 20 percent more than just buying it from the electric company. not even counting battery replacement and system maint.

[gtq838]

well, you show me where I can buy 9 kW worth of solar panels for 1500 and I will buy all of them they have. If you buy that system from a dealer it would cost upward of $50,000 and the break even point would be around 25 years and that just to break even and doesn't factor in repairs.

This is based on the

FACT that in michigan I only get 4.33 kWh/sq m/day, my average monthly usage is 900 kWh/month or about $80. I also factored in the 30% tax credit availible in michigan. you are full of it

[gtq838]

I also wish to bring up the fact that home solar energy is FAR WORSE for the enviroment than burning coal, or getting energy froma commercial solar plant or wind plant or even nuclear plant. It is the worst electricity you can get... because of the batteries, to power a house you need a lot of very toxic batteries and have to replace them often. The process to make these batteries is so toxic its not even legal in the USA and they are very toxic when you throw them out. Expensive too.

[gtq838]

now I replying to the comment you removed.

solar energy (while it is cool) IS NOT PRICE EFFECTIVE! It takes 25 years to break even and thats NOT counting the tens of thousand in repairs.

second the "selling energy back to the government" You don't buy the energy from the government to begin with! You would be selling it back to the POWER COMPANY! But that requires a grid tie system and you were talking about being off the grid!

You should stfu you know absolutely nothing about this.

[SatoTM2]

so building another coal farm IS the solution?

so what it is expensive? its green! its zero emissio

ur just another idiot who just sees the pricetag and the moneyflow

u'd rather have a coalplant or oilpump that makes alot of money but releases greenhouse gasses, than an expensive solar plant that doesnt release anything.

u disgust me sir

[gtq838]

I really don't care if I disqust you. I'm just being realistic, if it isn't price effective it will not work. btw if you wuold have read my comment you would have realised I speaking about HOME solar power which is not cost effective large solar plant show real potential however, the hobbiest trying to play power plant could better save the environment by spending their money more wisely.

By the way I have a solar powered cabin in the woods. idiot

[gtq838]

anyways my point was and still is that even though solar energy for the home can be fun and educational it NEEDS to be cost effective in order to work.

[fireofenergy]

Uh, turning the deserts into a vast dust bowl, no! Turning it into a giant black field is obviously a no no.

However, using billions of post driven COOL mirrors (without the need to bulldoze) is the final solution to unlimited SOLAR thermal power with molten salt and graphite heat storage.

LFTR (Liqiud Fluoride Thorium Reactor) may be the only "better" solution. Less Pstuff (as normal reactors), is virtually weapons grade "safe" and is definitely unlimited.

CSP provides much more jobs though!

[jerryaltman]

What is the eficiency of that system. We know in a good sunny day a square meter of sun ligh have about 1KW. For each 1kw of sun light, how many wats this system get?

[jerryaltman]

Are you kidding????

50w of 1Kw it's just 5% eficiency !!!!!

[dulcelake]

It'll be very expensive. This would put alot of boilermakers out of work. This is just a video. I would like to see the real solar plant. Then I would believe it.

[feelytouchy67]

I like this, as anything that uses the sun and wind and waves etc. is the way the go.

But I would really like to see something on solar. non-electric refrigeration.

Back in the late 90's, a fellow in Lineville, Alabama, built a solar powered refrigeration device. The sun's heat was used to compress amorphous ammonia in the day. At night the compressed ammonia expanded --imitating a "normal" refrigerator/freezer. It produced huge ice blocks.

[cavemanillustrations]

Amazing!

[tnguyen318]

Is it solar panels or Photo Voltaic panels? Because if they operate like a calculator, it's light not the sun. And Light is abundant everywhere during the day time.

[aloisgault]

@tnguyen318 Steam troughs.

[danc0nia]

@tnguyen318 Concentrated solar power (parabolic trough collectors)

[mhc711]

I like the idea and I think if it actually goes through (which I believe they are still waiting for the OK from the government) that it will be a great asset to Arizona.

I agree though, it would also be awesome if they were solar panels too! Maybe they can create a solar panel that is also a solar thermal heater - two birds, one stone type of deal.

[lambedan]

Solar panels don't reflect much so they wouldn't work good in a mirror setup. The reason they use this setup is for cost reasons. Solar panels are expensive. I believe even the mirror technology is more expensive per kWh than our typical sources.

I think the main goal should be to get the costs down. They can keep building these plants and hopefully they will spur research and figure out economical ways.

[vikas16j]

how we can download video

[xXAkridXx]

I wonder if they build a place like that, woudl they be able to easily upgrade the solar panel;s with new more effective ones as technology advances? And woudl the power plant be able to adapt to new levels of energy after such an upgrade?

[isi2isi67]

You mean like the same way they upgraded all the coal power plants and nuclear plants still operating from the 60s and 70s.I would think changing a panel wouldn't be more complex then the 2 fastening points and reattaching the power suply and as they replace one panel all the others are still online.

[xXAkridXx]

I would imagine there would be many complications, but yes, good point, if they can upgrade gas and nuclear then solar shouldn't be hard.

[svesolar]

how much gas and nuclear can this plant take, how much gas is left in the next 100 years?

something has to change

[allanaws]

Sorry but I don't think any of you watched the video. They are NOT solar Electric Panels that are being used. They are using The Heat from a solar farm to heat Salt water, turning it in to Steam that then turns the Turbines. It certainly will be fantastic if they can ever get a Solar electric panel to produce more energey, but for now they still convert water in to Steam and then the steam into movment which then creates some power.

[xXAkridXx]

If that's the case, I guess I pay poor attention.

[jedismurf99]

Beach Life theme music :)