Boxing's Greatest Champions (Documentary from series "HBO Boxing's Best")

[ken162008]

MY TOP TEN Boxer of all time and there not in order! Roy John Jr*

Larry Holmes* Mike Tyson* Muhammad Ali* Pernell Whitaker* Floyd Mayweather Jr* Julio sesar chaves Sr* Sugar Ray Robinson* Tommy Hearns* Willie pep*

[joe123090]

What about the fly, bantam, and feather weights? That wasnt all the weight classes. Jimmy Wilde greatest flyweight, Eder Jofre greatest bantamweight and the most important, will o the wisp, Willie Pep the greatest featherweight. You forgot some very important names.

[johnosandra]

@joe123090 how many times did you see them fight chump

[joe123090]

@johnosandra chump? the only chump here is the one that talks shit on youtube. If you knew anything about boxing you would know Willie Pep is the greatest featherweight. People might disagree about the bantam greatest. Not much footage exist on jimmy wilde but from what i seen and read is that he was one of the hardest punchers p4p knocking out fighers that outweight him up to 50lbs. i go by what boxing historians write since there the ones that know the sport cause theyve lived through...

[TrumanOThirsty]

@joe123090 You are absolutely correct about Willie Pep being the greatest featherweight of all time. His career record is: W 205+ L 7, he was known as "will- of- the wisp" because he was so difficult to hit. Pep had an unexpected loss & he ran off 73 CONSECUTIVE WINS; a feat which may never be equaled. No doubt, Willie Pep is the best featherweight - bar none! Pep also came back from a bad plane crash and SUED to get his boxing license restored. Superb boxer and a very tough man!

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty well said

[TrumanOThirsty]

@joe123090 You are correct to use "will o the wisp" which I had not seen in your earlier post. Both terms :"will o ..." and "will of ..." are proper uses of Pep's nickname.

No correction or offense intended. Take care.

[joe123090]

@johnosandra ...those years and not by what people type in youtube comments so next time you dont agree with something someone says in the comments dont get butt hurt and start throwing your shit all over the room

[KASHLAMDA]

I agree, Sugar Ray Robinson the best fighter ever. Nice to see the welterweight footage of him.

[hector6256]

Boxing ♥

[sugarnadf]

surprised by some of the choices..but then again maybe not.heard it all before

[johnosandra]

i rate louis the best hw

chavez the best

and ali the greatest

only some people will know what i mean by that

[johnosandra]

@johnosandra i bet larry would say the same thing today but for different reasons



[johnosandra]

im not a huge fan of dempsey as a hw

[johnosandra]

ike williams was one of the greatest lightweights of all time

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra By chance, I came across a YouTube video of a fight - H. Weston vs W.

Benitez in 77. Match was at Mad Sq Garden & before bout Willie Pep and Sandy Saddler were introduced to crowd. Also present were G.Cooney, M. Rossman, Howard

Davis (anncng. debut as pro), and some other boxers. Altho bout between Benitez & Weston not a great one; it is worth a look at introduction to see so many active & former boxers in MSG ring at one time, when MSG was still a top venue for boxing

matches!

[johnosandra]

julio cesar chavez is the greatest lightweight of all time and the best ever to put on a pair of gloves bar ali ofcourse

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra I must respectfully disagree. Larry Merchant & Gil Clancy (in 1979 & '89 respectively, both said Duran was "one of the greatest fighters who ever lived"). Angelo Dundee called Duran "an all time great, who does a lot of 'cute things in the ring" and " this is why he's an unmarked slugger". Dundee went on to say that " Duran never got the accolades he deserved because he had the misfortune to be overshadowed by Muhammad Ali. Chavez was great but Duran was greater.

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty duran was probably the greatest slugger at lightweight but really that belongs to beau jack or hammerin hank

duran was a great fighter acorss the board but i believe chavez was the best across the board

the perfections of chavez fundamentally dominate even the most fast and skilled fighters

accuracy of joe louis the expertise of leonard the work ethic of hagler the chin of mercer the convidence of muhammad never panics never swells or cuts =91-0

best in ring but no muhammad

[johnosandra]

chavez was pvp the best for 10 years

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra To begin, I am unsure as to what you mean in the first sentence of your reply. Secondly, IMO, one cannot rate a fighter's greatness on record alone. Moreover, Chavez was given a very questionable draw in a bout with Pernell Whitaker, which I thought Whitaker won. In the final anlysis, either opinion regarding Duran & Chavez has many arguments in its favor. There is much merit to your view, but I see it differently. Cheers.

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty just state the obvious

the only thing duran has over chavez is the huge weight differentials between fights

chavez won titles in just as many different divisions but durans differentials surpass that

taking hagler 15 and knocking out davey moore where durans best performances

chavez dominated and clinically outclassed 91 opponents in a row

go to my channel and watch some prime chavez there is plently of it

this arguement is just the opinions of 2 men i assume

[johnosandra]

@johnosandra duran could fight his instincts where great but he just wasnt the professional prizefighter chavez was

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra I've been polite while acknowledging there is much substantive evidence in favor of each of our opinions vis a' vis Chavez & Duran. I had hoped to avoid a lengthy colloquy. I shall do it your way. In Chavez's 1st 28 bouts, his opponents had a collective record of: 110 W - 172 L, a mean avg. of 4 W & 6 L per opponent, (rond. off) Chavez went 12 W - 7 L & no record of 10 bouts. Also, his 12th bout vs. Miguel

Ruiz, JC Sr. was DQ,a loss,but his mgr. R Felix was on the [ to be cont]

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra Culican Bxing Comm & had official record chngd. This chnge is verified in "The A-Z of World Boxing" by B. Blewett. In Duran's 1st 28 bouts, opposition h/coll. rcrd. of: 384 W - 256 L, a mean avg. of 14 W & 6 L, 3 w/no off. record of fight, 1 Ev. [Correction - I meant to say of Chavez's opp: 12 h/losing recrds & 7 had W recds. and no off. rec. f/10. Of course, RD & JC both had recds. of 28 -0. I dislike long arguments about subjective opinions because of this. (cont.)

[TrumanOThirsty]

@TrumanOThirsty 2nd Correction: I should haved typed that Duran's opposition (in first 28 bouts) had a collective record of: 14 W & 9 L, 3 w/no official record of bout, and 2 opponent's record were E(ven) I apologize for this & an earlier error.

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra Here are my closing remarks. RD had more early fights (1st 40) against superior opposition. E Marcel, appx. Rd's 20th opp. became world champ & Kobayshi, his 28th opp. w/ a former 2 time lgtwt. champ. RD grew into a master boxer - off. & def. Chavez's early fights are not recorded and I did not recognize any name in his 1st 40 fights. RD, in his 29th bout, took the title from a superb K. Buchanan (43-1) when Duran beat him. I respect your opinion but strongly disagree. Take care.

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra "this arguement is just the opinions of 2 men i assume" - You assume correctly.

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra says: "Chavez won titles in ... as many different divisions but Durans ..." Your claim is false. Chavez won titles in 3 divisions - jnr. ltwt. 130 lbs. - ltwt. 135 lbs. & jnr. welterweight. 142 lbs. A span of 12 Lbs!. Duran won 4 titles - lt.wt. 135 lbs. wltrwgt. 147 lbs. jnr. mddlewgt. 154 lbs. & mddlewgt. 160 lbs. A span of 25 Lbs & 3 full Divs.! Lgtwgt. - Wltrwgt. & Middlewgt. Also, both Beau Jack & Hank Armstrong had lower career KO %s than Duran! RD better than JC !

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty interesting facts concerning records

but as you pointed out records dont say everything

chavez in my mind is perfection

not only in record but in performance and professionalism

almost perfect in every aspect

cannot fault chavez

roberto duran vs davey moore

julio cesar chavez vs edwin rosario

both men have an aura and when a man achieve's an aura he cannot gain anything more out of boxing

i know as a fighter id rather fight duran

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra Obviously you know boxing & fought.. I know boxing well but as an analyst & fan. I was not a boxer but I did play one on TV (just kidding). Duran's best fights were: 3rd bout DeJesus, title bout Buchanan, & 1st bout SRLeonard. Duran was the best lightweight ever & the majority of boxing analysts, commentators, & writers concur. I agree that JC & RD had unique "auras" & charisma. We will never agree on JC & RD. Do you think JC could have beat SRLeonard? Take care.

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty the cream of boxing experts larry said duran was AS good as any lightweight

to rate him over chavez arguello whitaker hank and ike williams is almost ignorant

i think chavez would beat near anyone he is the best ive seen

i think chavez hit harder more accurate faster more expertise over duran

chavez sparred 10 rounds a day 6 days a week chavez and robinson are the only 2 i can think of that stay relaxed when things become erratic

bombs away still relaxed

amazing

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra I understand your opinion. However, all opinions on intangibles are subjective but knowledge of a particular subject (expertise) is helpful in giving deliberated opinions. Up to age 29, after RD - SRL 2 debacle, Duran's work ethic was superb. RD was also relaxed in ring. Watch Duran in Palomino bout & listen to L Merchant's comments. I saw Chavez take apart Rosario in a lop - sided match, on which I lost $50. However, in h/prime, I believe RD could h/done the same. (cont.)

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra (cont.) All rankings are opinions based on certain criteria, with each "expert" favoring some aspects of boxer's abilities differently and often, the differnces in skills & abilities are very small; but, all rankings must be numbered. This causes disagreement. There is no way to know for sure & common opponents are not very useful; some styles do not match up well. I respect your opinion but disagree. IMO. RD is best lgtwgt. ever but all u list were great. (cont...)

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra (cont.) It is obvious we will never agree, but I do appreciate your boxing knowledge and civility in discussing our difference of opinion. Also, thank you for answering my question as to why you would rather fight RD than JC. If you are still boxing, good luck in the future and I'm sure you're smart enough to know when to stop. I see no point in continuing this as we are firm in our opinions. It has been interesting. Duran vs Barkley, hear Clancy say RD is "so relaxed". Cheers

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra At what weight ( lbs.) do or did you box? Would there be a preferred weight at which you would fight Duran or Chavez? Unless you are or were a top tier, world class fighter at middleweight or above, I can't imagine you having much chance with either; assuming prime age & condition for you, RD or JC. I must admit, I'm curious, why would you prefer Duran over Chavez as an opponent? Duran is the bigger, stronger man, very quick, hard to hit & vastly under rated as a def. fighter!

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty im 6,2 187lb 85kg id knock either one out with 1 punch

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty chavez hits harder than duran chavez is harder to hit

chavez vs rosario

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra Cm'on: you cannot make an enormous claim, " i know as a fighter i'd rather fight duran " (than chavez), without answering my questions!

[johnosandra]

@TrumanOThirsty ko% doesnt mean shiit

beau jack was just as good as duran and armstrong was better

[TrumanOThirsty]

@johnosandra I cited KO percentages only because of your statement: " duran was probably the greatest slugger at lightweight but really that belongs to beau jack or hammerin hank". I did NOT claim that duran was better that Hank Armstrong, albeit, I do believe he was a better lightweight than Beau Jack. Also, Hank A. had a large majority of his fights, at championship level, as welterweight. ( I need one more reply - thank you for bearing with me.)

[johnosandra]

in my opinion larrys knowledge of boxing is 2nd to none

[johnosandra]

you know its good boxing in first 2 seconds that music

[CoffeeBeatsTea]

the hell? Didn't know Jack Dempsey refereed matches

[MrBumboclart]

Wow! There was footage of SRR at 147lb? I never knew that.