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I don't think you understand me at all. Changing the grip during auditing is unavoidable, that's what I meant by ok. Wins in auditing is achieved by the PC confronting his engrams etc. and has nothing to do with if the PC changes his grip on the cans. The e-meter is used as a tool by the auditor to help the PC find incidents.
So it's okay if someone squeezes the cans harder or loosens his grip during auditing? You are indeed acknowledging that wins can be achieved during auditing by changing one's grip on the cans? Like you said "it's okay" if this happens during auditing.
My views on auditing have changed drastically. Either you are unaware of how you misspeak or you've basically confirmed my personal beliefs that auditing in a meaningless scam.
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Of course the needle changes when you grip and ungrip. When you grip hard your skin "floats" out on the cans, creating more contact area for the current flowing through, thus changing the resistance.
You have to have the SAME grip all the time, do NOT squeeze or loosen the grip.
Try this: Ask somebody to pinch you, the needle will move. Then just think of that exact moment again, and the needle will move again, without anybody pinching you. It's your thought showing up on the e-meter.
You believe you have the same grip on the cans when you think of an engram? You think someone holding the cans wouldn't tighten his/her grip when an engram is spotted? How would an auditor be able to tell the difference between someone squeezing harder on the cans and this fantastic "needle moves according to thought patterns" argument you want me to accept without sharing the science of how that's possible?
Set up a scientific experiment on this, and maybe I'll change my mind.
yeah...and the lobotomy won the Noble prize so it must be great, right?
How can you then explain that every time the PC goes into an engram the needle rise on the e-meter? An every time energy is released the needle falls on the e-meter? There are lots of needle movements and lots of books about the e-meter.
For all I know about what you've told me about the lobotomies between 1939 and 1951, it damn well could have won the Nobel Prize. After all, you never told me it DIDN'T; you've hardly told me anything about the lobotomies, remember?
And from my own experience with the E-Meter, the needle rises and falls depending on the person's grip on the handles. Lighten your grip, the needle falls; tighten it, it rises.
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I believe Dianetics can improve peoples conditions by releasing negative energy from the reactive mind. It's very real and has helped many people. You should look into it instead of just trying to put everything about scientology down. There are good things as well as bad things.
Yet the FDA took the Co$ to court over the health benefits of using an E-Meter, and a court ruled the device to have NO medicinal or scientific use for the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of any disease, nor is it medically or scientifically capable of improving the health of anyone.
CoS are not by any means saying that they can treat mental illness. What source do you have on that? Regarding Perkins, it's very easy to look in the rear-view mirror. I don't have enough experience regarding mental illness to make a profound statement, but I believe Dianetics should be tried on people with mental illnesses. I also believe that the scientific community should evalute Dianetics on "insane" people to establish how well it works.
What source? "Dianetics: The Modern Science of MENTAL HEALTH," for starters. LRH even goes so far as to say all mental illnesses, including schizophrenia, are the results of events recorded in the reactive mind bank.
I'd also like to note that Dianetics wasn't even based on tangible science when it was written (though a case has been made that it's heavily inspired by Freudian psychotherapy), and auditing and Scientology's views on nutrition have done nothing to benefit Jeremy Perkins.
I'm not so sure the Hubbard Tech has a 100 % success rate, but I'm sure it works to a certain degree. I'm open to the idea that there MIGHT be squirrel tech, but I have no profound data for that.
I've done auditing where huge chunks of negative energy has been released from the reactive mind. It was very real and lasted for hours, before I went back to "normal". Quite a spiritual experience. I've also done it several times, which to me says it's repetitive and valid, even though only subjective
It doesn't have a 100% success rate, as we both know, but the Co$ itself likes to argue otherwise in promotional material, a little tidbit we can perhaps file under "swindling nature of the Co$."
You're going in circles, dude. I mean nothing more that what I said. CoS should not accept "insane" people, they have a policy letter on that.
I'm not saying I know what CoS should have done. My suggestion is that they probably shouldn't have accepted him and perhaps sent him to a psychiatric facility. Severe cases of mental illness is not for CoS at the moment.
"Jeremy Perkins should have been sent to a psychiatric facility."
You really mean that? Despite everything the CCHR and Tom Cruise try to rave about the evils of psychiatry and the Co$ being "the authorities of the mind," you sincerely believe that a case like Jeremy Perkins' is best left to psychiatrists?
While I agree with you, you are aware that you're flying right in the face of everything the Co$ publicly stands for when it comes to mental health issues, right?
So now are you trying to tell me that it was not the Co$'s position to treat Jeremy Perkins for his schizophrenia or hold any kind of position on mental health at all?
They probably made some mistakes? But the Hubbard tech is supposed to have a 100% success rate, according to the Co$'s orientation video; it's supposed to be flawless. How can there be any mistakes if all Scientologists follow Hubbard's tech and doctrine to the letter? Should we perhaps raise the possibility that there are individuals within the Co$ squirreling the tech with dangerous results?
Also, surely you can provide more detail of your auditing wins to make your point.
I'm asking you to get a healthy perspective. Scientology are involved in both good and less good activities. But you're only focusing on the bad activities. Why? Why don't you applause the good activities as well and get a balanced viewpoint? You're like Christian Bale getting a rage attack, revealing a narrow-minded viewpoint. Get a PERSPECTIVE and a BALANCED viewpoint.
I don't have to. You see, there's this thing called "burden of proof" which rests on the shoulders of the individual posing an argument.
You're the one who wants to convince me that 18,000 people between 1939 and 1951 is a bad thing. Therefore, you can provide all the information to make your case.
Anything else you want me to do is completely irrelevant to your original argument.
I think CoS has difficulty tacking mental illness, just as anybody else has. CoS is to make "the able more able", not to treat mental illnesses. There are lots of success stories on the internet from scientologists, both from CoS and the Freezone. Search and you will find.
You do have the intellectual capacity to differentiate between CoS and the teachings of LRH? Two different things, daddy-o.
"CoS is to make 'the able more able,' not to treat mental illnesses."
So now are you trying to tell me that it was not the Co$'s position to treat Jeremy Perkins for his schizophrenia or hold any kind of position on mental health at all? Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's certainly what it sounds like.
Also, being that these "success stories" are part of your own argument, you can surely find them on your own, rather than make other people do your research, daddy-o.
"Between 1939 and 1951, more than 18,000 lobotomies were performed in the United States, and tens of thousands more in other countries."
What do you think about that, AnonNation? Pretty severe huh? Why don't you put some energy into that instead of just dealong with A FEW (McPherson, Perkins etc) scientology misstakes.
I can't say I know enough to make a concrete opinion.
For starters, you neglected to provide me with a reason WHY these lobotomies were performed, how many people total were treated for the same conditions each year in relation to the 1,500 individuals who were lobotomized, how many lobotomies are performed today, compared to this 12-year period, or why lobotomy was considered an option in those 18,000 cases in the first place.
Cherry-picking facts for your own argument ain't gonna help you.
Severe psychiatric illness is always very difficult and Jeremy Perkins is a tragic case. How to treat that is difficult. In severe cases, I think vitamins is not enough. Perhaps they have to be drugged with psychic drugs? Perhaps CoS did the wrong thing in that case? But those drugs is not the end solution, it's just a way to minimize the phenomenon of the disease. Mind you, those cases are a small part of scientology. Scientology has done a lot of good things as well, are you able to see that?
When you say, "How to treat that is difficult," do you mean to say, "The Co$ has difficulty tackling the illness?"
Are you trying to say that the Co$'s views on mental health are flawed? That's what it sounds like you're trying to say, and if that's the case, why should the Co$ be trusted for any or all mental health studies?
And Jeremy Perkins was never "drugged with psychic drugs." Also, because you can't provide a tangible case of the Co$ doing "a lot of good things," I reserve all doubts.
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Seriously guys, you need to check out what scientology really is. The $cam you talk about are a minor part of scientology and you need help. Clearing up words is good, defeating drugs is good, auditing out the reactive mind is good. WHAT is it you're really fighting?
So, following your logic . . . Disallowing Jeremy Perkins to take drugs and medication meant to treat schizophrenia, which eventually lead him down a path that would see him stab his poor mother Elli 77 times because he thought she was evil, is good.
You haven't thought much about what you were saying now, did you? The blood of people denied the assistance of psychiatrists and medications is on the Co$'s hands, sciologos.
I'd go to WhyWeProtest [dot] NET and try to look up threads on preparing the next protest.
More likely than not, there's gonna be a thread for a city near you, and I'm sure people posting in that thread can help guide you in the right direction.
What? No, that can't be the answer to the question I'm asking chessnut1816.
chessnut1816 is insisting that WBM is an OSA plant who outed him/her to the Co$ after a protest, and c'mon, we both know that's not true. It sure is amusing to watch the YouTube troll avoid answering even the simplest of questions about his/her story though.
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Tory Magoo & Mark Bunker are being financed to protest Scn. Check their financial status folks. They cant afford to travel the world. They have a backer and that is your Sherman Tank.
If so, God bless their backer for financing these protests against Scientology, and for picking such great people to stand up to their "Pay to pray" cult.
I should have known you were a sick fuck like Bunker. You religious bigots are all alike and you are an enemy to all man. You will be stopped and exposed for what you really are. A racial hate group!
The church of scientology for the most part only uses well trained people in the field thats why they will tend to be of an older age. Be careful of people trying to buddy up with Anon who are older. Most of Anon protesters are young, so old fat operatives like Mark stick out like a sore thumb. Please understand, the church has staff members in the field. They don't all run around dressed with a white shirt and tie. Just like the police have undercover officers they have undercover operatives.
Your know, SCIENTOLOGISTS use the term: "FLUNK". It was at a DC protest. I should have never said anything to that fat back stabbing fucker. He stabbed Bob Minton in the back then me.
Anyway, this whole comment page has me rolling on the floor laughing. God, I miss trolling scilons, especially when they try and use computers, and just end up sounding illiterate and retarded.
Oh, and, cool story bro. Talked to WBM, got tagged by OSA, etc. Needs more space battles, though.
Long story. There was raep, pillage, and epic swordfights involved, but we'll discuss that later.
Saw Slick Pubes go down the other day, and laughed so hard that I had to call up Sethdood. Since I just moved back to the city, I figured it would be a good opportunity to catch up with everyone and party with you guys again.
I'm an ex-scientologist. I was on a protest once and the ONLY person who I told my real name to was Mark Bunker. Within a week, a OSA agent for the church I use to be a part of showed up asking me why I was doing what I was doing agaist the church.
Mark Bunker is an undercover agent for the church pretending to be a critic. He helped bring down the List McPherson Trust that was run by a real critic, Bob Minton. Since then Bob was history. He is not who or what he appears to be.
Is that you Mark replying under another name? Now your trying to get me into hot water with OSA for posting on youtube right? You have to watch out for the trolls on youtube just like the newsgroups.
You are being hostile. You made that clear when you stated your sole purpose for ever coming to post here was "just to make fun of you." If that doesn't scream "I'm bent on antagonizing you," I don't know what does.
And, no, I don't know anything about Anon and Texas, MTV, or the Epileptic Foundation. That's why I asked you for further information on this stuff.
If you don't want to discuss these things in greater detail, why even bother to bring them up in the first place?
Okay, several videos came up in the search. Which one is the same video you watched. I want to be absolutely positively sure I'm watching the same video you did.
"Jeff Stone describes anonymous riverside county dec 9 2008. Anonymous is uncovered for what it truly is and why it must be stopped which has now begun.
Nation did you mean the part where anonymous is now being investigated for terrorist acts or the chanology website that is telling people to kill blacks and then themselves? Im not sure which one you meant. I guess that means FLUNK! Sorry bout that ....
After that, expose more cults, fundamentalists, and other types of mind control. Anyone heard of Rev. Moon recently? He was a billionaire. Want to see other crazies exposed? See how Thunderf00t demolished creationists. Stupid cops? Check out the "Retarded Policeman" videos here, or maybe you'd like to watch McCain singing "bomb Iran" here.
I know enough about it to say that you shouldn't joke about something like forced manual labor for punishment and rehabilitation purposes in any context. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying something that insensitive.
Wow what a busy room! lmao!! Is that Chester A Arthur giving the speech? And look at that crowd. Must be a Star Trek convention in town. Very impressive...
You're being hostile again, toryluvslrh1. And after having multiple conversations with me in the past about respecting ARC and hostility not helping you achieve anything. Have you learned nothing from our civil conversations?
Hi Anon! I commented so you could keep your room alive. Looks abit dead. lol. I learned you are the smartest of the anons I have met and you are an idiot. That is not an insult. Its a fact. Why waste Scn on garbage? I just use a dumpster with you guys and its working. Look at how small you have gotten. And no comments in a month! EPIC! lolol
Why so hostile? Do you really think that calling people who are willing to discuss an issue civilly "idiots" makes your ideals and the organization you stand for look good? If a priest barged into a lecture hall to call Richard Dawkins an idiot, this would not reflect well on him or his church.
And no comments in a month on a video that is already half a year old is very usual on YouTube (and my newer videos still get comments). You're making a fuss over nothing; your time was well wasted.
OMG! Nation did you think I was taking you & anon serious? Really? Sorry man. Anonymous is a joke that should be made fun of. It should be degraded and slandered just for the lulz. Lighten up Nation. You are part of the joke so start smiling. You are free!
Had you been a Scn with the capacity for duplicating communication, you would have immediately seen that I answered your question to the note. Now ... Have you proved anything yet with your videos? You know ... that can be proven.
Attacking the attacker now, I see. Someone critical about Scientology asks you a question, and you dodge it by attempting to (but failing oh so hard) to drive them off subject by grilling him or her, instead.
That's not going to happen. You might as well answer my questions.
Are you going to continue to dodge my question or get enough guts to answer the question. This is your chance to prove your superior intellect. Afraid of the challenge anon?
You are in no position to ask me if I'm afraid of answering your questions when you've dodged my own questions for a third time in a row.
I'm not dodging anything; I'm merely refusing to allow you to influence the direction of this discussion without having answered any of the questions THAT I'VE ASKED YOU FIRST.
Answer my questions, and then it can be your turn to grill me. That's how civil discussion works.
Anon how bout you start acting like a man? Either answer the questions or move on to someone who doesnt prove superior to your point. The game is simple. I ask. You answer. If you are not afraid. oh ... and Happy Holidays!
Once again, you don't answer my questions and demand that I bend to your will (not going to happen). Why will you not receive my communication? Are you afraid to answer the questions I've asked you to answer four times now?
Yes, I believe the stated terms so far are, "Respond to my questions, and I will respond to yours in kind." Well, I'm still waiting for a response to my questions.
And, believe me, I can wait. I don't mind having to see you raise the view count for this video 1-2 tallies each day, slowly but surely bumping its placement in search results for the terms "Anonymous" and "Scientology," thus bringing more attention to my videos and any opinions shared within them (which I know you despise).
Its my job to help the needy and by the looks of your room you need my help. How come folks arent flocking in to see your video? Not even your anon friends. Too bad. Enjoy my view count. Its all you have!! lmao!!!
You're all I have? No, wait, I have 37 other videos, some of which are much more recent than this one, and therefore, receive much more attention from YouTube users.
You still haven't respond to my questions . . . nor have you convinced me of anything with your defeatist talk. Please, continue to fail to break my spirit; your continual question-dodging in your effort to make me feel bad is a daily source of amusement to me.
Nation are you really that "slow"? Im not trying to make you feel bad. Im not trying to break your spirit. Im not really interested in answering the silly questions you ask. Im just here to make fun of you. Thats all I want is to make fun of you and laugh at you. Now do you understand? You are MY lulz. Silly boy ....
"I'm not trying to make you feel bad," the Scientologist says after lobbing an insult aimed at Nation's intelligence.
Smooth move there. After giving it some thought, I've decided to stop asking you about my questions an encourage you to continue being unintentionally hilarious and an embarrassment to the Co$. Please, continue to insist that your part of a legitimate religious organization while acting like a child as old as your shoe size. I BEG YOU!
Why must we lower ourselves to this level of childish insults and elitist troll behavior?
If this is how you choose to act, so be it, that's your choice. But that does not mean I shall follow your example and drag myself down to a lesser level of conduct. I find it to be deplorable and ungentlemanly.
Nation why dont you cut the "Holier than thou" bullshit. You are part of a known hate group already being investigated in Texas for racial hate crimes. You are a destroyer of the 1st amendment. In other words .. you are a hypocrite. Grow up and look at what you are doing.
I also see no evidence of any accusation you just made so...let's just say I have doubts. Would you like to explain your accusations in further detail?
Im not being hostile. Im trying to wake you up to the fact that you are part of a group that is stomping on the religious rights of others. You already know about Texas, the attacks on MTV, the Epileptic foundation. Why play dumb on these? Its your group doing it.
I want to thank you, Mark, for your dedication. My sister has been enslaved by the CO$. I believe the end is nearing for the CO$ and David Miscavige. It is time for him to pay for his crimes against mankind.
And I can still see well over 30 people in the crowd around Mark Bunker--not to mention people who are listening but cannot be seen because they are standing BEHIND the people in the video and are out of sight.
And lest we forget the thousands of people who are a part of Chanology who could not attend this event because of prior commitments and other circumstances WHO WILL UNDOUBTEDLY COME TO YOUTUBE TO WATCH THIS VIDEO.
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Sure now you guys have to imagine big numbers, LOL. I guess your little movement is on its last legs and you have missed the exit sign. Don't worry because next month will show again even lower numbers. The kids moved on because no LULZ last forever.
You know, I'm actually smart enough to realize that you weren't even at the DC march, and you are arguing to SOMEONE WHO WAS ACTUALLY THERE over the number of people in attendance. Do you actually think you can discourage me by making a single gross underestimate after watching one video?
What absurdity are you going to tell me next? That your stats aren't down?
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I have never stated that I was at the DC rally but I don't overstate numbers like you do. Be honest, it was a failure and I have been reading about the event on Anons message boards.
You're missing the point. I know you never stated that you were at the DC rally, and I know YOU WERE NEVER THERE.
And you can't look at one video (or part of one video) and then make an accurate conclusion on the overall size and scope of the event. The size of the area we had to hold the event was far larger than the stage at which Mark Bunker was speaking at, and Anons were spread throughout.
Be honest: You're jumping to conclusions over one video and making yourself look like a failure.
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Your statement would have been correct if I would base my comments on just one statement. I have been watching quite a number of videos and believe me, they either got only a handful or the same people over and over again.
Regardless, the event was labeled a failure on Anons own sites and that is fine with me.
I like how you insist that your basing your claims on multiple statements, but don't share any of them.
Simply saying that you've seen "a number of videos" or that "the event was labeled a failure on Anons own sites" just isn't going to fly. What are these other videos you've seen? Where are these remarks about failure in DC coming from?
I know nothing about any of this. Please provide me with these tangible sources.
This is what I can never understand about a discussion over information with a Scientologist. Why is it that whenever I ask a Scientologist to provide tangible evidence that supports their claims, they make a statement about how I should do my own research to verify their own claims?
You know I can very well do a Google search for "DC protest was win" and easily discredit you if I find something, but that wouldn't be fair now, would it?
Where on Enturbulation does it say anything you claim?
Well, we learned from Anon how to make claims and provide no proof at all. But honestly, you should search because YouTube will not let you post links and I'm just to lazy at the moment to cut and paste the link for you.
Our fliers and pamphlets have always included web citations or direct statements from ex-Scientologists about their activities and observances inside the Co$.
But honestly, I can simply rally behind the anon-galaxy blogspot page which shines a positive light on the day ("epic win had by all," apparently) and flat out call you a liar, but I'm just too nice at the moment to insult you.
This is your argument, and I want to be sure I see the same exact information you're looking at. Where is it?
Also, when you say "WE learned from Anon," are you talking about the Church of $cientology adopting the alleged behavior of an organization opposed to the Co$? Wouldn't this be viewed as obvious OUT TECH, and shouldn't doing exactly what an SP organization does be strictly against KSW?
Should this be interpreted as an admission that the Church of $cientology is clearly ignoring and working against Hubbard's tech?
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Not at all but we're learning from your group how to promote our cause by using the Internet and you will hate the day when we start rolling out in full force.
You still didn't tell me where on Enturbulation and Google you found your alleged evidence of Anons calling the DC march a failure. Or did you forget about having to do that? I must be speaking to a pre-clear then.
And why do I have to wait for "the day when [the Church of $cientology] start[s] rolling out in full force"? Why can't you get your act together and do that right now? Perhaps it has something to do with the word "downstat"?
Enturbulation contains numerous forums and postings. How exactly am I supposed to find exactly what you are referencing to support your argument when you are being this vague? There are ways to send someone links or tell people what thread to look for on YouTube which don't involve fussing over YouTube's filters on video comments.
You still haven't told me what we're supposed to be searching for, genius. What is this topic on Enturbulation which you've read? What was it titled? Who made a negative post about the DC march? What did that person say, exactly?
littlesisterAnon already pointed to an Enturbulation thread which praises the DC march. All tangible information revealed thus far doesn't hold up to your claims. SHOW ME THE EXACT TANGIBLE INFORMATION YOU HAVE ACCESSED AND VIEWED; I WILL NOT DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
The internet is $cientology's Vietnam. The days when people forked over thousands of dollars without researching them on google and wikipedia are over.Also the entire OT bridge is now avalable for free online. You don't have to pay anyone for it. As such, your nasty little cult is doomed.
Back again, I see. And pretending your whole "I insist that Anons consider the DC march unsuccessful even though I can't share any evidence of this" failure never happened. I thought you were busy all week looking for those posts on Enturbulation. What ever happened to them?
Also, while you're at it, you now share us your evidence on how Mike Rinder "seems to" have returned to the Co$.
Sorry, buddy, the burden of proof rests on your shoulders.
You made the claim; you defend it. That is how civil and intellectual discussion works.
Now provide the facts, citations, and information.
If it makes you happy though, I just did a Google search for "Mike Rinder blew," and all the information found afterwards contradicts your weak claim. I still think you're lying.
If there were a bunch of news stories floating around about me ditching the organization I was the CHIEF SPOKESMAN for, I would certainly make a public statement announcing my return--especially if I was A PROMINENT PUBLIC FACE for the organization and appeared in interviews with The Today Show, Dateline NBC, Rolling Stone, and the BBC.
So where's Mike's public statement? Where did you hear that Mike "seems to" have returned to the Co$?
And where are those long lost Enturbulation posts?
"Keep on searching"? This is your argument; therefore, you are the one to defend it and flesh it out. Haven't you ever heard of a thing called the "burden of proof"?
Additionally, where did you hear about "numbers not being as large as anticipated"? I can understand a non-anon who doesn't fully understand our culture taking the whole "over 9000" thing far too seriously and literally, but this is going to be something else you must provide evidence for.
LOL, O$A, Anonymous is just changing tactics silly. The original raids were just to get David Miscaviges attention. We are now settling into dedicated and organized cells which are localy focused.
Do you ever get the feeling that Anonymous is playing chess while osa is playing checkers?
tom cruise a knight of malta
spurnthemuse 10 months ago
Zzz
korbin420 10 months ago
His words are wise his face is beard!
legalbeagle26 1 year ago
WHAT 9000!!!
UR86 2 years ago
YA MARK
NearlyaHero 2 years ago
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Mark is the unofficial General of Anonymous.
SharksKid 2 years ago
Only Anonymous published a Message to Scientology BEFORE Mark Bunker decided to speak on the matter.
AnonNation 2 years ago
WBM is simply one person that was able to get a lot of attention speaking out against Scientology. He is a great inspiration and very respectable :)
FreethinkForever 2 years ago
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I don't think you understand me at all. Changing the grip during auditing is unavoidable, that's what I meant by ok. Wins in auditing is achieved by the PC confronting his engrams etc. and has nothing to do with if the PC changes his grip on the cans. The e-meter is used as a tool by the auditor to help the PC find incidents.
sciologos 2 years ago
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Also, try the pinch test I explained beneath and see for yourself if it works.
sciologos 2 years ago
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It's true the hand squueze might change during auditing, but it's okay.
Search for "language of the e-meter" and click the top search result and you'll end up on a page (Freezone) explaining the e-meter.
sciologos 2 years ago
So it's okay if someone squeezes the cans harder or loosens his grip during auditing? You are indeed acknowledging that wins can be achieved during auditing by changing one's grip on the cans? Like you said "it's okay" if this happens during auditing.
My views on auditing have changed drastically. Either you are unaware of how you misspeak or you've basically confirmed my personal beliefs that auditing in a meaningless scam.
AnonNation 2 years ago
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Of course the needle changes when you grip and ungrip. When you grip hard your skin "floats" out on the cans, creating more contact area for the current flowing through, thus changing the resistance.
You have to have the SAME grip all the time, do NOT squeeze or loosen the grip.
Try this: Ask somebody to pinch you, the needle will move. Then just think of that exact moment again, and the needle will move again, without anybody pinching you. It's your thought showing up on the e-meter.
sciologos 2 years ago
You believe you have the same grip on the cans when you think of an engram? You think someone holding the cans wouldn't tighten his/her grip when an engram is spotted? How would an auditor be able to tell the difference between someone squeezing harder on the cans and this fantastic "needle moves according to thought patterns" argument you want me to accept without sharing the science of how that's possible?
Set up a scientific experiment on this, and maybe I'll change my mind.
AnonNation 2 years ago
yeah...and the lobotomy won the Noble prize so it must be great, right?
How can you then explain that every time the PC goes into an engram the needle rise on the e-meter? An every time energy is released the needle falls on the e-meter? There are lots of needle movements and lots of books about the e-meter.
sciologos 2 years ago
For all I know about what you've told me about the lobotomies between 1939 and 1951, it damn well could have won the Nobel Prize. After all, you never told me it DIDN'T; you've hardly told me anything about the lobotomies, remember?
And from my own experience with the E-Meter, the needle rises and falls depending on the person's grip on the handles. Lighten your grip, the needle falls; tighten it, it rises.
watch?v=z0vNK3xV4kc
Prove me otherwise.
AnonNation 2 years ago
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I believe Dianetics can improve peoples conditions by releasing negative energy from the reactive mind. It's very real and has helped many people. You should look into it instead of just trying to put everything about scientology down. There are good things as well as bad things.
sciologos 2 years ago
Yet the FDA took the Co$ to court over the health benefits of using an E-Meter, and a court ruled the device to have NO medicinal or scientific use for the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of any disease, nor is it medically or scientifically capable of improving the health of anyone.
At most, we can only call the E-Meter a placebo.
AnonNation 2 years ago
CoS are not by any means saying that they can treat mental illness. What source do you have on that? Regarding Perkins, it's very easy to look in the rear-view mirror. I don't have enough experience regarding mental illness to make a profound statement, but I believe Dianetics should be tried on people with mental illnesses. I also believe that the scientific community should evalute Dianetics on "insane" people to establish how well it works.
sciologos 2 years ago
What source? "Dianetics: The Modern Science of MENTAL HEALTH," for starters. LRH even goes so far as to say all mental illnesses, including schizophrenia, are the results of events recorded in the reactive mind bank.
I'd also like to note that Dianetics wasn't even based on tangible science when it was written (though a case has been made that it's heavily inspired by Freudian psychotherapy), and auditing and Scientology's views on nutrition have done nothing to benefit Jeremy Perkins.
AnonNation 2 years ago
I'm not so sure the Hubbard Tech has a 100 % success rate, but I'm sure it works to a certain degree. I'm open to the idea that there MIGHT be squirrel tech, but I have no profound data for that.
I've done auditing where huge chunks of negative energy has been released from the reactive mind. It was very real and lasted for hours, before I went back to "normal". Quite a spiritual experience. I've also done it several times, which to me says it's repetitive and valid, even though only subjective
sciologos 2 years ago
It doesn't have a 100% success rate, as we both know, but the Co$ itself likes to argue otherwise in promotional material, a little tidbit we can perhaps file under "swindling nature of the Co$."
AnonNation 2 years ago
You're going in circles, dude. I mean nothing more that what I said. CoS should not accept "insane" people, they have a policy letter on that.
I'm not saying I know what CoS should have done. My suggestion is that they probably shouldn't have accepted him and perhaps sent him to a psychiatric facility. Severe cases of mental illness is not for CoS at the moment.
Have you tried some Book One auditing for free?
sciologos 2 years ago
"Jeremy Perkins should have been sent to a psychiatric facility."
You really mean that? Despite everything the CCHR and Tom Cruise try to rave about the evils of psychiatry and the Co$ being "the authorities of the mind," you sincerely believe that a case like Jeremy Perkins' is best left to psychiatrists?
While I agree with you, you are aware that you're flying right in the face of everything the Co$ publicly stands for when it comes to mental health issues, right?
AnonNation 2 years ago
Are you telling me that the lobotomies were right to do?
sciologos 2 years ago
FLUNK.
So now are you trying to tell me that it was not the Co$'s position to treat Jeremy Perkins for his schizophrenia or hold any kind of position on mental health at all?
START!
AnonNation 2 years ago
I'm saying that CoS probably didn't handle the Perkin's case in an optimal way. They probably made some misstakes.
I've done auditing, and I've experienced when charge has been blown. It was higly real.
sciologos 2 years ago
They probably made some mistakes? But the Hubbard tech is supposed to have a 100% success rate, according to the Co$'s orientation video; it's supposed to be flawless. How can there be any mistakes if all Scientologists follow Hubbard's tech and doctrine to the letter? Should we perhaps raise the possibility that there are individuals within the Co$ squirreling the tech with dangerous results?
Also, surely you can provide more detail of your auditing wins to make your point.
AnonNation 2 years ago
Ok. But you can do some work on your own huh?
I'm asking you to get a healthy perspective. Scientology are involved in both good and less good activities. But you're only focusing on the bad activities. Why? Why don't you applause the good activities as well and get a balanced viewpoint? You're like Christian Bale getting a rage attack, revealing a narrow-minded viewpoint. Get a PERSPECTIVE and a BALANCED viewpoint.
sciologos 2 years ago
I don't have to. You see, there's this thing called "burden of proof" which rests on the shoulders of the individual posing an argument.
You're the one who wants to convince me that 18,000 people between 1939 and 1951 is a bad thing. Therefore, you can provide all the information to make your case.
Anything else you want me to do is completely irrelevant to your original argument.
AnonNation 2 years ago
I think CoS has difficulty tacking mental illness, just as anybody else has. CoS is to make "the able more able", not to treat mental illnesses. There are lots of success stories on the internet from scientologists, both from CoS and the Freezone. Search and you will find.
You do have the intellectual capacity to differentiate between CoS and the teachings of LRH? Two different things, daddy-o.
sciologos 2 years ago
"CoS is to make 'the able more able,' not to treat mental illnesses."
So now are you trying to tell me that it was not the Co$'s position to treat Jeremy Perkins for his schizophrenia or hold any kind of position on mental health at all? Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's certainly what it sounds like.
Also, being that these "success stories" are part of your own argument, you can surely find them on your own, rather than make other people do your research, daddy-o.
AnonNation 2 years ago
"Between 1939 and 1951, more than 18,000 lobotomies were performed in the United States, and tens of thousands more in other countries."
What do you think about that, AnonNation? Pretty severe huh? Why don't you put some energy into that instead of just dealong with A FEW (McPherson, Perkins etc) scientology misstakes.
sciologos 2 years ago
I can't say I know enough to make a concrete opinion.
For starters, you neglected to provide me with a reason WHY these lobotomies were performed, how many people total were treated for the same conditions each year in relation to the 1,500 individuals who were lobotomized, how many lobotomies are performed today, compared to this 12-year period, or why lobotomy was considered an option in those 18,000 cases in the first place.
Cherry-picking facts for your own argument ain't gonna help you.
AnonNation 2 years ago
Severe psychiatric illness is always very difficult and Jeremy Perkins is a tragic case. How to treat that is difficult. In severe cases, I think vitamins is not enough. Perhaps they have to be drugged with psychic drugs? Perhaps CoS did the wrong thing in that case? But those drugs is not the end solution, it's just a way to minimize the phenomenon of the disease. Mind you, those cases are a small part of scientology. Scientology has done a lot of good things as well, are you able to see that?
sciologos 2 years ago
When you say, "How to treat that is difficult," do you mean to say, "The Co$ has difficulty tackling the illness?"
Are you trying to say that the Co$'s views on mental health are flawed? That's what it sounds like you're trying to say, and if that's the case, why should the Co$ be trusted for any or all mental health studies?
And Jeremy Perkins was never "drugged with psychic drugs." Also, because you can't provide a tangible case of the Co$ doing "a lot of good things," I reserve all doubts.
AnonNation 2 years ago
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Seriously guys, you need to check out what scientology really is. The $cam you talk about are a minor part of scientology and you need help. Clearing up words is good, defeating drugs is good, auditing out the reactive mind is good. WHAT is it you're really fighting?
sciologos 2 years ago
So, following your logic . . . Disallowing Jeremy Perkins to take drugs and medication meant to treat schizophrenia, which eventually lead him down a path that would see him stab his poor mother Elli 77 times because he thought she was evil, is good.
You haven't thought much about what you were saying now, did you? The blood of people denied the assistance of psychiatrists and medications is on the Co$'s hands, sciologos.
Try again.
AnonNation 2 years ago
How do I find out how to join or form a protest in my area?
scorpiodude65 3 years ago
I'd go to WhyWeProtest [dot] NET and try to look up threads on preparing the next protest.
More likely than not, there's gonna be a thread for a city near you, and I'm sure people posting in that thread can help guide you in the right direction.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Which Protest?
Washington, D.C. in July, 2008
ToryMagoo44
ToryMagoo44 3 years ago
What? No, that can't be the answer to the question I'm asking chessnut1816.
chessnut1816 is insisting that WBM is an OSA plant who outed him/her to the Co$ after a protest, and c'mon, we both know that's not true. It sure is amusing to watch the YouTube troll avoid answering even the simplest of questions about his/her story though.
AnonNation 3 years ago
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Tory Magoo & Mark Bunker are being financed to protest Scn. Check their financial status folks. They cant afford to travel the world. They have a backer and that is your Sherman Tank.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
FLUNK!
What exactly am I supposed to be watching?
START!
AnonNation 3 years ago
If so, God bless their backer for financing these protests against Scientology, and for picking such great people to stand up to their "Pay to pray" cult.
scorpiodude65 3 years ago
I should have known you were a sick fuck like Bunker. You religious bigots are all alike and you are an enemy to all man. You will be stopped and exposed for what you really are. A racial hate group!
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
FLUNK!
What exactly am I supposed to be watching?
START!
AnonNation 3 years ago
The church of scientology for the most part only uses well trained people in the field thats why they will tend to be of an older age. Be careful of people trying to buddy up with Anon who are older. Most of Anon protesters are young, so old fat operatives like Mark stick out like a sore thumb. Please understand, the church has staff members in the field. They don't all run around dressed with a white shirt and tie. Just like the police have undercover officers they have undercover operatives.
chessnut1816 3 years ago
FLUNK!
Which protest was it?
START!
AnonNation 3 years ago
Your know, SCIENTOLOGISTS use the term: "FLUNK". It was at a DC protest. I should have never said anything to that fat back stabbing fucker. He stabbed Bob Minton in the back then me.
chessnut1816 3 years ago
FLUNK!
Which protest was it?
START!
AnonNation 3 years ago
'Soup, Nation. Greetings from the land of Askren.
Anyway, this whole comment page has me rolling on the floor laughing. God, I miss trolling scilons, especially when they try and use computers, and just end up sounding illiterate and retarded.
Oh, and, cool story bro. Talked to WBM, got tagged by OSA, etc. Needs more space battles, though.
TribulationGuild 3 years ago
Askren, where the fuck have you been?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Long story. There was raep, pillage, and epic swordfights involved, but we'll discuss that later.
Saw Slick Pubes go down the other day, and laughed so hard that I had to call up Sethdood. Since I just moved back to the city, I figured it would be a good opportunity to catch up with everyone and party with you guys again.
TribulationGuild 3 years ago
I'm an ex-scientologist. I was on a protest once and the ONLY person who I told my real name to was Mark Bunker. Within a week, a OSA agent for the church I use to be a part of showed up asking me why I was doing what I was doing agaist the church.
Mark Bunker is an undercover agent for the church pretending to be a critic. He helped bring down the List McPherson Trust that was run by a real critic, Bob Minton. Since then Bob was history. He is not who or what he appears to be.
chessnut1816 3 years ago
Oh yeah? Which protest was it?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Is that you Mark replying under another name? Now your trying to get me into hot water with OSA for posting on youtube right? You have to watch out for the trolls on youtube just like the newsgroups.
chessnut1816 3 years ago
FLUNK!
Which protest was it?
START!
AnonNation 3 years ago
Wise Beard Man is wise and beardy.
May his wisdom shine through the lies of the Co$.
Also, turyluvslrh2 fails incredibly hardcore.
UhhKris 3 years ago
You are being hostile. You made that clear when you stated your sole purpose for ever coming to post here was "just to make fun of you." If that doesn't scream "I'm bent on antagonizing you," I don't know what does.
And, no, I don't know anything about Anon and Texas, MTV, or the Epileptic Foundation. That's why I asked you for further information on this stuff.
If you don't want to discuss these things in greater detail, why even bother to bring them up in the first place?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Go to youtube and enter "Jeff Stone describes anonymous" and then give us your thoughts. Now we know what Mark Bunker stands for.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
Okay, several videos came up in the search. Which one is the same video you watched. I want to be absolutely positively sure I'm watching the same video you did.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Jeff Stone describes anonymous (Riverside county)
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
I'm wondering now. Did you read the full video description before you sent this my way?
AnonNation 3 years ago
"Jeff Stone describes anonymous riverside county dec 9 2008. Anonymous is uncovered for what it truly is and why it must be stopped which has now begun.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
FLUNK! Did you read the full video description before you sent this my way? START!
AnonNation 3 years ago
Nation did you mean the part where anonymous is now being investigated for terrorist acts or the chanology website that is telling people to kill blacks and then themselves? Im not sure which one you meant. I guess that means FLUNK! Sorry bout that ....
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
FLUNK! Did you read the full video description before you sent this my way? START!
AnonNation 3 years ago
<3 wise beard man is so dreamy haha
AnonoMrs 3 years ago
Ah, so this is what happened prior to the cake eating contest. I recently put up someone else's footage of that.
Wpganon 3 years ago
For some reason when oschaper said scientology is trying to promote their cause it pissed me off.
NAPREDATOR 3 years ago
Another Beardworthy moment!
xenubie 3 years ago
Scientology is doomed!
After that, expose more cults, fundamentalists, and other types of mind control. Anyone heard of Rev. Moon recently? He was a billionaire. Want to see other crazies exposed? See how Thunderf00t demolished creationists. Stupid cops? Check out the "Retarded Policeman" videos here, or maybe you'd like to watch McCain singing "bomb Iran" here.
newbetterandhappy 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
And who will make the rules, when, where or what to attack? Why don't you go to rotten neighbors and denounce a couple of your neighbors?
oschaper 3 years ago
End the RPF!
soulinite 3 years ago
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And we just made some room for you :-)
oschaper 3 years ago
A Scientologist acknowledges the RPF's existence, though isn't the RPF for Sea Org members only?
That's a pretty pathetic threat you make there.
AnonNation 3 years ago
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I don't need to make any threats and you should learn what sarcastic humor is before you start complaining.
oschaper 3 years ago
The Rehabilitation Project Force is no laughing matter.
AnonNation 3 years ago
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And you're the expert and no so much about it?
oschaper 3 years ago
I know enough about it to say that you shouldn't joke about something like forced manual labor for punishment and rehabilitation purposes in any context. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying something that insensitive.
AnonNation 3 years ago
I suport AnonNation's Comment!
soulinite 3 years ago 4
Wow what a busy room! lmao!! Is that Chester A Arthur giving the speech? And look at that crowd. Must be a Star Trek convention in town. Very impressive...
toryluvslrh1 3 years ago
You're being hostile again, toryluvslrh1. And after having multiple conversations with me in the past about respecting ARC and hostility not helping you achieve anything. Have you learned nothing from our civil conversations?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Hi Anon! I commented so you could keep your room alive. Looks abit dead. lol. I learned you are the smartest of the anons I have met and you are an idiot. That is not an insult. Its a fact. Why waste Scn on garbage? I just use a dumpster with you guys and its working. Look at how small you have gotten. And no comments in a month! EPIC! lolol
toryluvslrh1 3 years ago
Why so hostile? Do you really think that calling people who are willing to discuss an issue civilly "idiots" makes your ideals and the organization you stand for look good? If a priest barged into a lecture hall to call Richard Dawkins an idiot, this would not reflect well on him or his church.
And no comments in a month on a video that is already half a year old is very usual on YouTube (and my newer videos still get comments). You're making a fuss over nothing; your time was well wasted.
AnonNation 3 years ago
OMG! Nation did you think I was taking you & anon serious? Really? Sorry man. Anonymous is a joke that should be made fun of. It should be degraded and slandered just for the lulz. Lighten up Nation. You are part of the joke so start smiling. You are free!
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
You didn't answer my questions.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Had you been a Scn with the capacity for duplicating communication, you would have immediately seen that I answered your question to the note. Now ... Have you proved anything yet with your videos? You know ... that can be proven.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
Attacking the attacker now, I see. Someone critical about Scientology asks you a question, and you dodge it by attempting to (but failing oh so hard) to drive them off subject by grilling him or her, instead.
That's not going to happen. You might as well answer my questions.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Are you going to continue to dodge my question or get enough guts to answer the question. This is your chance to prove your superior intellect. Afraid of the challenge anon?
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
You are in no position to ask me if I'm afraid of answering your questions when you've dodged my own questions for a third time in a row.
I'm not dodging anything; I'm merely refusing to allow you to influence the direction of this discussion without having answered any of the questions THAT I'VE ASKED YOU FIRST.
Answer my questions, and then it can be your turn to grill me. That's how civil discussion works.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Anon how bout you start acting like a man? Either answer the questions or move on to someone who doesnt prove superior to your point. The game is simple. I ask. You answer. If you are not afraid. oh ... and Happy Holidays!
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
Do I smell cowardice?
Once again, you don't answer my questions and demand that I bend to your will (not going to happen). Why will you not receive my communication? Are you afraid to answer the questions I've asked you to answer four times now?
AnonNation 3 years ago
You know the terms.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
Yes, I believe the stated terms so far are, "Respond to my questions, and I will respond to yours in kind." Well, I'm still waiting for a response to my questions.
And, believe me, I can wait. I don't mind having to see you raise the view count for this video 1-2 tallies each day, slowly but surely bumping its placement in search results for the terms "Anonymous" and "Scientology," thus bringing more attention to my videos and any opinions shared within them (which I know you despise).
AnonNation 3 years ago
Its my job to help the needy and by the looks of your room you need my help. How come folks arent flocking in to see your video? Not even your anon friends. Too bad. Enjoy my view count. Its all you have!! lmao!!!
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
You're all I have? No, wait, I have 37 other videos, some of which are much more recent than this one, and therefore, receive much more attention from YouTube users.
You still haven't respond to my questions . . . nor have you convinced me of anything with your defeatist talk. Please, continue to fail to break my spirit; your continual question-dodging in your effort to make me feel bad is a daily source of amusement to me.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Nation are you really that "slow"? Im not trying to make you feel bad. Im not trying to break your spirit. Im not really interested in answering the silly questions you ask. Im just here to make fun of you. Thats all I want is to make fun of you and laugh at you. Now do you understand? You are MY lulz. Silly boy ....
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
Hahaha!
"I'm not trying to make you feel bad," the Scientologist says after lobbing an insult aimed at Nation's intelligence.
Smooth move there. After giving it some thought, I've decided to stop asking you about my questions an encourage you to continue being unintentionally hilarious and an embarrassment to the Co$. Please, continue to insist that your part of a legitimate religious organization while acting like a child as old as your shoe size. I BEG YOU!
AnonNation 3 years ago
So thats the best you have? Nation I would have expected more from such a learned scholar such as yourself. But hey! If the shoe fits .... lmao.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
Why must we lower ourselves to this level of childish insults and elitist troll behavior?
If this is how you choose to act, so be it, that's your choice. But that does not mean I shall follow your example and drag myself down to a lesser level of conduct. I find it to be deplorable and ungentlemanly.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Nation why dont you cut the "Holier than thou" bullshit. You are part of a known hate group already being investigated in Texas for racial hate crimes. You are a destroyer of the 1st amendment. In other words .. you are a hypocrite. Grow up and look at what you are doing.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
You're being hostile.
I also see no evidence of any accusation you just made so...let's just say I have doubts. Would you like to explain your accusations in further detail?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Im not being hostile. Im trying to wake you up to the fact that you are part of a group that is stomping on the religious rights of others. You already know about Texas, the attacks on MTV, the Epileptic foundation. Why play dumb on these? Its your group doing it.
toryluvslrh2 3 years ago
oschaper said "And you're the expert and no so much about it?"
You used "no" when you ment "know". How is this possible? Didn't you get a perfect memory like LRH promised in dianetic$ when you went clear?
soulinite 3 years ago
Oooh, it appears that Oschaper's TR's are out. Maybe he should get his overts checked?
littlesisterAnon 3 years ago
He is out 2d.
soulinite 3 years ago
oschaper said:"I don't need to make any threats and you should learn what sarcastic humor is before you start complaining."
Print is a poor medium for sarcasm.
soulinite 3 years ago
This wise bearded man deserves every accolade,he doesnt live in the shadows he stands up for what is right,BRAVE BRAVE FELLOW.
squilky1951 3 years ago 4
Hail Xenu!
soulinite 3 years ago
Dear Mark,
I want to thank you, Mark, for your dedication. My sister has been enslaved by the CO$. I believe the end is nearing for the CO$ and David Miscavige. It is time for him to pay for his crimes against mankind.
bunkrbuddy
bunkrbuddy 3 years ago 2
Well said Mark. Always great to hear from you.
Best wishes xx
SleepTwilight 3 years ago 2
+1 Mr MethMan
KrispyCritter00 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is getting boring.
billmeth1 3 years ago
so how many people showed up?
tnichols321 3 years ago
About 700 Anons in addition to 8,301 ninjas waiting in the shadows.
AnonNation 3 years ago
needs moar new york nurse.
TankScorpio 3 years ago 2
She's in there; you just have to look for her.
AnonNation 3 years ago
i saw her- i just want moar!!!
TankScorpio 3 years ago
Me, too.
In fact, I think I'll go get some right now.
AnonNation 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
And Mark got another paycheck for his attendance. Sure he started years ago but after he was hired to produce propaganda videos for the LMPT.
oschaper 3 years ago
Mark did not get any paycheck for his attendance.
You fail. Hard.
AnonNation 3 years ago
HA HA HA
paleolithicera 3 years ago 2
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Not really much because I have seen videos with maybe 30 max. What a waste of time... Guess the message is no longer flying.
oschaper 3 years ago
30 people max turning out in DC!?!?
New York City alone managed to get a group larger than that down to DC. What videos are you watching?
AnonNation 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Just take a look at the crowd shots. Not many people listening.
oschaper 3 years ago
You didn't answer my question.
And I can still see well over 30 people in the crowd around Mark Bunker--not to mention people who are listening but cannot be seen because they are standing BEHIND the people in the video and are out of sight.
And lest we forget the thousands of people who are a part of Chanology who could not attend this event because of prior commitments and other circumstances WHO WILL UNDOUBTEDLY COME TO YOUTUBE TO WATCH THIS VIDEO.
You fail again. Just as hard.
AnonNation 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Sure now you guys have to imagine big numbers, LOL. I guess your little movement is on its last legs and you have missed the exit sign. Don't worry because next month will show again even lower numbers. The kids moved on because no LULZ last forever.
oschaper 3 years ago
at least we're trying, unlike those ignorant bastard who are doing nothing (eg you)
JasonDaPsycho 3 years ago 2
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@JasonDaPsycho
Why do you have to use insults? Aren't you able to make a point?
oschaper 3 years ago
You know, I'm actually smart enough to realize that you weren't even at the DC march, and you are arguing to SOMEONE WHO WAS ACTUALLY THERE over the number of people in attendance. Do you actually think you can discourage me by making a single gross underestimate after watching one video?
What absurdity are you going to tell me next? That your stats aren't down?
You fail for a third time. So very hard.
AnonNation 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I have never stated that I was at the DC rally but I don't overstate numbers like you do. Be honest, it was a failure and I have been reading about the event on Anons message boards.
oschaper 3 years ago
You're missing the point. I know you never stated that you were at the DC rally, and I know YOU WERE NEVER THERE.
And you can't look at one video (or part of one video) and then make an accurate conclusion on the overall size and scope of the event. The size of the area we had to hold the event was far larger than the stage at which Mark Bunker was speaking at, and Anons were spread throughout.
Be honest: You're jumping to conclusions over one video and making yourself look like a failure.
AnonNation 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Your statement would have been correct if I would base my comments on just one statement. I have been watching quite a number of videos and believe me, they either got only a handful or the same people over and over again.
Regardless, the event was labeled a failure on Anons own sites and that is fine with me.
oschaper 3 years ago
I like how you insist that your basing your claims on multiple statements, but don't share any of them.
Simply saying that you've seen "a number of videos" or that "the event was labeled a failure on Anons own sites" just isn't going to fly. What are these other videos you've seen? Where are these remarks about failure in DC coming from?
I know nothing about any of this. Please provide me with these tangible sources.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Just check on enturbulation(dot)com and google around.
oschaper 3 years ago
This is what I can never understand about a discussion over information with a Scientologist. Why is it that whenever I ask a Scientologist to provide tangible evidence that supports their claims, they make a statement about how I should do my own research to verify their own claims?
You know I can very well do a Google search for "DC protest was win" and easily discredit you if I find something, but that wouldn't be fair now, would it?
Where on Enturbulation does it say anything you claim?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Well, we learned from Anon how to make claims and provide no proof at all. But honestly, you should search because YouTube will not let you post links and I'm just to lazy at the moment to cut and paste the link for you.
oschaper 3 years ago
Our fliers and pamphlets have always included web citations or direct statements from ex-Scientologists about their activities and observances inside the Co$.
But honestly, I can simply rally behind the anon-galaxy blogspot page which shines a positive light on the day ("epic win had by all," apparently) and flat out call you a liar, but I'm just too nice at the moment to insult you.
This is your argument, and I want to be sure I see the same exact information you're looking at. Where is it?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Also, when you say "WE learned from Anon," are you talking about the Church of $cientology adopting the alleged behavior of an organization opposed to the Co$? Wouldn't this be viewed as obvious OUT TECH, and shouldn't doing exactly what an SP organization does be strictly against KSW?
Should this be interpreted as an admission that the Church of $cientology is clearly ignoring and working against Hubbard's tech?
AnonNation 3 years ago
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Not at all but we're learning from your group how to promote our cause by using the Internet and you will hate the day when we start rolling out in full force.
oschaper 3 years ago
You still didn't tell me where on Enturbulation and Google you found your alleged evidence of Anons calling the DC march a failure. Or did you forget about having to do that? I must be speaking to a pre-clear then.
And why do I have to wait for "the day when [the Church of $cientology] start[s] rolling out in full force"? Why can't you get your act together and do that right now? Perhaps it has something to do with the word "downstat"?
AnonNation 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Actually I know the link but still YT does not allow us to post links. But You should be capable enough to find the link to the forum as well.
In addition, you prefer quantity over quality and we prefer quality over quantity. That is way you will see our response in time.
oschaper 3 years ago
Enturbulation contains numerous forums and postings. How exactly am I supposed to find exactly what you are referencing to support your argument when you are being this vague? There are ways to send someone links or tell people what thread to look for on YouTube which don't involve fussing over YouTube's filters on video comments.
AnonNation 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Simple: USE THE SEARCH FORUM OPTION.
oschaper 3 years ago
You still haven't told me what we're supposed to be searching for, genius. What is this topic on Enturbulation which you've read? What was it titled? Who made a negative post about the DC march? What did that person say, exactly?
littlesisterAnon already pointed to an Enturbulation thread which praises the DC march. All tangible information revealed thus far doesn't hold up to your claims. SHOW ME THE EXACT TANGIBLE INFORMATION YOU HAVE ACCESSED AND VIEWED; I WILL NOT DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
AnonNation 3 years ago
The internet is $cientology's Vietnam. The days when people forked over thousands of dollars without researching them on google and wikipedia are over.Also the entire OT bridge is now avalable for free online. You don't have to pay anyone for it. As such, your nasty little cult is doomed.
soulinite 3 years ago 2
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Even if some fake OT levels are online, people will still remain interested in Scientology and join.
oschaper 3 years ago
The entire OT bridge is online. I dare you to ask me any question about it and see if I respond correctly!
$cientology is downstat all over the world.
soulinite 3 years ago
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Don't worry because the core is well and alive.
oschaper 3 years ago
oschaper said "Don't worry because the core is well and alive."
Mike Rinder blew.
soulinite 3 years ago
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Mike seems to be back at Scientology and I guess taking a break is all he did.
oschaper 3 years ago
Back again, I see. And pretending your whole "I insist that Anons consider the DC march unsuccessful even though I can't share any evidence of this" failure never happened. I thought you were busy all week looking for those posts on Enturbulation. What ever happened to them?
Also, while you're at it, you now share us your evidence on how Mike Rinder "seems to" have returned to the Co$.
AnonNation 3 years ago
I leave the misinformation in your hands. If you need facts do your research.
oschaper 3 years ago
Sorry, buddy, the burden of proof rests on your shoulders.
You made the claim; you defend it. That is how civil and intellectual discussion works.
Now provide the facts, citations, and information.
If it makes you happy though, I just did a Google search for "Mike Rinder blew," and all the information found afterwards contradicts your weak claim. I still think you're lying.
AnonNation 3 years ago
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Do you think he makes a public statement that he is back?
oschaper 3 years ago
If there were a bunch of news stories floating around about me ditching the organization I was the CHIEF SPOKESMAN for, I would certainly make a public statement announcing my return--especially if I was A PROMINENT PUBLIC FACE for the organization and appeared in interviews with The Today Show, Dateline NBC, Rolling Stone, and the BBC.
So where's Mike's public statement? Where did you hear that Mike "seems to" have returned to the Co$?
And where are those long lost Enturbulation posts?
AnonNation 3 years ago
Proof please?
soulinite 3 years ago
Are you admiting that Co$ is downstat?
soulinite 3 years ago
Well, there is always this video showing quite a crowd-/watch?v=_Q4IKN15E90
And this link from the thread at Enturb(which you would not provide)
forums(dot)enturbulation(dot)org/121-raids/national-mall-rally-9000-man-march-dc-22715/3/
And after 17 pages going on about how great it was, I can clearly see how anons everywhere thought it was "fail".
You haven't handled us. Start.
littlesisterAnon 3 years ago
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Keep on searching. But the fact remains, your numbers where not as large as anticipated at all.
oschaper 3 years ago
"Keep on searching"? This is your argument; therefore, you are the one to defend it and flesh it out. Haven't you ever heard of a thing called the "burden of proof"?
Additionally, where did you hear about "numbers not being as large as anticipated"? I can understand a non-anon who doesn't fully understand our culture taking the whole "over 9000" thing far too seriously and literally, but this is going to be something else you must provide evidence for.
You still haven't handled us. Start.
AnonNation 3 years ago
Fundamentalists are literal to a fault. Ambiguity of meaning frightens them.
soulinite 3 years ago
LOL, O$A, Anonymous is just changing tactics silly. The original raids were just to get David Miscaviges attention. We are now settling into dedicated and organized cells which are localy focused.
Do you ever get the feeling that Anonymous is playing chess while osa is playing checkers?
soulinite 3 years ago
Wish i could have been there with you. Awesome.
Epic win.
thelastanon 3 years ago