Argerich & Tilson-Thomas/SFSO - Schumann concerto, movt. III

[davidnovotnypiano]

@Elfinsafety Maybe 9.30 is a superfast tempo, but if you look at her playing this movement at the age of 10, you see, it's faster (9.20!!) :-D

[bw2082]

@davidnovotnypiano that one is also missing about 10 seconds in the coda so they're about the same

[TJFNYC212]

I actually thought I would never want to hear this war horse again until I heard MA play it.......................... the tempo is extremely fast but it works. That being said, the interpretation of Alicia Delarrocha brings out things you do not hear in MA's version. 2 different but equally great musician-pianists!

[UlfenDaddy]

@TJFNYC212 The point is, Different; and interpretation is the crucial aspect of what makes a true concert artist vs. a competent "piano player." Alicia often brought up details in her performances that others sometimes overlooked, and M.A. always seems to sparkle in her own way. But I get so tired of reading these incessant superlatives and over-the-top comments about this one or that; the rendition here and the Gilels performace are good, but "greatest ever?" Utterly not, by ANYONE'S criteria.

[chazinko]

Just tellin' it like it is but the truth can hurt eh?

[chazinko]

Sorry but Martha chops or no, this pianist misses a lot of the music at this tempo.

[violatione]

@chazinko No YOU miss a lot of the music at this tempo because your brain doesn't fire fast enough.

[Grigor99]

Technically, Martha can play this concerto with one hand tied behind her back, but sometimes it sounds like she rushes through phrases a bit. But then, she takes some other phrases to some very beautiful places. She is always an exciting performer and always plays full-blooded.

[enantiodrom]

The best poet of piano in the world.

[gcaee]

This is a bad performance in my opinion.

I don't want to always compliment her because of her great fame.

I like Gilels's version.

[arykk]

Being Martha Argerich , she can play at however the hell she wants

[mariofbag]

She plays fast because there is a lot of blood in her playing and blood is a component needed to become an artist of that caliber, when I listen to her my blood travels as fast as hers, however, when one plays the piano we must control ourselves.

[uhartchristian]

this mouvement needs a quick tempo, argerich is right to go for it. Gilels was ill when he did that concerto in moscou. Its not a good recording althoughh he shows a lot of nice sound in there

[jfkadlec]

There are some pianists who technically play very well. Argerich plays as a superb musician. Her interpretations of many concerti will become the gold standard to which others must strive.

[BachFong11]

Agreed.

[partitasa89]

this isn't the fastest version of hers. the fastest one was recorded live by her when she was 10! (or 11). it's available on youtube! Search for it! "martha argerich as a child"

[Tiagoerg]

And to play, i have to complete, Ravel's piano concerto in G! One of my favourite PC's played by Martha. I grew up with a legendary performance recorded with Abbado, just pure magic. Jazzy mood perfectly catched by Argerich in the first movement, a deep feeling and sensibility on the second one, and loads of humor and virtuosity on the third movement who corresponds to Ravel own intentions, with the piano playing as part of the orchestra and not against it! A must hear! Brava martha

[Tiagoerg]

Camon you guys, to like or dislike Martha is a matter of taste, and tastes don't have fundations to be the beggining of a discussion! As for myself, Martha is a wonderfull pianist, the best woman pianist, who plays with loads of emotion and has a very distinct and well marked phrasing of the melody, sided by a exotic latina bravura that leaves a sweet sound on her performance! A complete musician and a great virtuosa of her instruments. Glad shes back to the proms this year!!

[myreau]

Just a bit too fast...takes away the poetry...too bad!

[trschaefer]

I find myself ambivalent in things "Argerich".

There's no denying that she is a genius.

But I often feel that her anxiety drives her tempos to be too fast. Sometimes I get anxious just listening to her performances!!

[scarbov]

Martha is in my opinion the only pianist alive you can recognize her play,even with closed eyes. She is and will be a legend.

[BachFong11]

Absolutely true.

[NOSEhow2LIV]

I love Martha's performances generally but this goes just over the limit, not exactly just"speed", but a driven,harassed,chased quality which excludes certain other important elements such as grace,wit,dialog,discussion,ch­arm.... Of course there are marvellous flashes, as ever in her playing,but this one wouldn't be a first choice for me.

[domkim1986]

How many times has she been to BBC PROMS?

I've seen her playing Ravel Piano Concerto in 2002.

[lyghdha]

I believe 1966 (Prokofiev 3), 1986 (Prokofiev 3) 1992 (Liszt 1), 2000 (Schumann), 2001 (Prokofiev 3), 2002 (Ravel). I could be wrong. Any others???

[jimmbo13]

in this piece, it is always better to err on the side of quickness and I think this tempo is much preferable to Gilels

[OrangeSodaKing]

Yeah. I love Gilel's to death, but I think his performance of the Schumann Concerto (1st movement too) is a little slow. I'm sure he has a reason for it, but I think Argerich owns this concerto.

[BachFong11]

Omg, people have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Martha Argerich is one of if not the most respected figure in classical piano music today. You can talk about other pianists interpretations, and how they don't even come close to the great Argerich, but at least she's still ALIVE! Yea people, she's alive and still playing better than ever. Listen to her sound you morons.

[drjameslent]

I think this is a most thilling performance, with incredible sense of gesture, musicality, rhythmic drive, clarity, dynamic contrast, and she handles the tempo with impressive panache- Brava!!!

[Infamouspianizt]

She played it only a little to fast on some certain areas, but on others it is the right tempo. Lipatti's version is definitely much better than this, but the best version of all time is Richter's performance. Richter's performance is the right speed and tempo. What I saw in this performance was more technicality than musicality. I'd take musicality over technicality any day.

[kjw163]

LOUSY. Nuff sedd.

[OrangeSodaKing]

WHAT???

Martha Argerich is the Clara Schumann of today!!! How can you say that? She is THE BEST woman pianist alive, and she is better than almost every single living male pianist!

[airad2]

You're quite right. Don't listen to these comments about how she rushes and has no emotion. Argerich never has lost emotion, she always has masterful phrasing. Though this is not her best recording of this concerto, I feel it's the SFO that is rushing her (but that's just my opinion.)

However good Argerich may be, Richter still owns this concerto.

[gastmichael]

Please. Martha rushes. Plenty of conductors can attest to that.

[hideaway3]

@gastmichael

Hi, your screen name gives me just that -gas. It has taken me 40 years to finally figure out Martha's puzzle. Yes, her fingers move at lightning speed but she also HEARS and LISTENS to everything she's doing. She's also one with the music, and that's why we have, relatively, so few of her concerti available. So why don't you do a little investigation yourself? FYI - Richter used to miss notes right and left, but let Argerich rush a tempo and the world stops. Come on.

[zulemaciel]

This is the first performance of the finale I really like. I don´t find her speed offensive, but all the way round: it makes it easier to follow and the musicality is fantastic. I respect the opinion of those who criticize her, but I´m pretty sure they can play it better, can´t they?(otherwise, you know).

Aguante Marthita y la Argentina, loco!!!

[Verityseo]

although i find her speed carthatic, i can also see the point ot those who criticize it. but here it seems she's more focusing on opposing duality of shumann's chracters--florestan in this case--in that context i find her playing compelling after a lingering, lyric 2nd movement, and certainly, "luxurious" with her dazzling tones.

[mikezzzaaa3]

I do not like Argerich here in this last movement. It is too fast and barnstorming and lacks the "Luxury". I also find it too staccato (orchestra as well). Schumann is not always the most extravagently virtuosic music, but it is ALWAYS classy. This is not classy at all.

[kjw163]

I agree....the Schumanns would have probably disliked this. She all but ruins this great work. Not really much of an Argerich fan....and all that long hair....arghh. ( Pianists: just because you CAN play very fast doesn't mean you SHOULD )

[johnnydavis23]

I agree except for "the Schumanns would have probably disliked this." I don't think you can substantite such a statement, though I understand it's just your opinion.

It happens frequently on these posts, but I don't see any merit in arguing what a deceased composer would have liked/disliked, unless you've had personal affiliations with the composer. A composer's instructions on the sheet music don't necessarily prove that is the only way he/she would've preferred the piece to be played.

[kajohada]

...yea,awful,she sticks into the piano and strikes the keys:((

[demosj]

I like this tempo, actually. Argerich plays this with such velocity, more than most pianists would dare, yet preserves clarity and musicality. Magnifique.

[jvmalfi]

nice

[NoneUsernamesLeft]

So arg ist Argerich! Wie passend.

[richteristhebest]

ABSOLUTELY GENIOUS!!!!!!!just how it should be...thank you to exist!

[kajohada]

horrible,she playes like a domina,and it doesnt sound well[without sounding basses] too "discantful"

perhaps she is afraid of basses in the piano sound! LOLL

[jabsomdoc]

i wouldn't say horrible. but id agree that this isn't the best interpretation. too heavy handed for my liking.

[hideaway3]

kajohada,

Would you like to interpret, in English, what the hell you're talking about.?

[vins6655]

this sucks, she killed music

[ghawk2005]

are you for real?? this is one of the most genius of all pianists the world has today. She usually plays it slower than this. but even so its incredible. I play this piece and know exactly how hard it is.... she has my total respect.

[TJFNYC212]

she owns this concerto and in paricular the final movement it is awesome

[mathpianist93]

TJFNYC212, a friend of mine says that this movement is on the level of difficulty as the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3. Is that true?

[demosj]

It's either the Rach 3 or Prokofiev 2nd. Putting Schumann up there is kind of funny, especially since there are so many concertos in between.

To give perspective: Sgourous performed Rach 3 at 13, and the performance was called the most impressive debut ever. Sean Beckett played it at 14, which prompted a listener to purchase him a Steinway.

Whereas, at a recent Young Artists concert, two 14 year olds of normal talent played the 1st and 3rd movement of the Schumann concerto respectively.

[mathpianist93]

Don't forget the Brahms Second Concerto

[hideaway3]

When my acquaintance, Manny Ax, plays the Brahms and is "dead" after a performance, we know we have just heard a tough concerto. It's so interesting to see these postings - Brahms wears one out technically and emotionally; Schumann wears one out more physically since as I posted earlier-you're on all the time; Rach. 3 all the aforementioned. In fact I'd like to think I had some input to my dear friend, Helene Grimaud, learning the Brahms #2. I hope she gets it under her hands soon.

[phoolisness]

@hideaway3

I had never heard of Helen Grimaud until last week when I got her recording of this concerto from the library.

Before that, I didn't get this concerto at all - but her recording had something special to it - hence my now listening to others.

[hideaway3]

@phoolisness

Nice to hear of your epiphany with Helene Grimaud. Have known her for years, like her playing very much, and would love to have you meet her sometime. You'd like her. Have lost contact with her since her move to Switzerland but could find her again through mutual friends. She also has a nice recording the the Chopin B flat Minor Piano Sonata you may find interesting.

[hideaway3]

To mathpianist93:

Hi, I don't feel it to be true having played both the Rach.3 and the Schumann. I feel the Schumann to be easier technically. The only problem is when you take the entire Schumann into consideration, the pianist is "ON" all the time. With the Rachmaninoff one can sit back and listen at certain times. There's a big difference musically and psychologically between the two. I would love to discuss this with you further should you care to write me.

[kiwibd]

oh..thanks a lot!!!! And you're right...how thoughtful was Argerich!!! lol...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE also post the first two movements of this concerto...

[thepianomaniac]

I love the SFSO, I just went there a couple days ago to hear the Tchaikovsky 1st Piano Concerto, it was excellent.

Argerich is truly one of the best.

[ibrahimvinogradov]

martha is really one of the best

[BachFong11]

If her sound could kill......

[S4UD4DE]

This stupid cameramen not focus Martha's hands in the most awesome movements... hmmm... not rare.

[CarolJWright]

Great...when was this recorded, and for what purpose?

[solveaproblem]

Was about to ask the same question! :)

[bw2082]

It really doesn't sound excessively fast yet clocks in like it

[kimolerik]

Many thanks for this! If you happen to have the other two movements, please post them... Thanks again, and happy new year.