You guys are about 40 years too late! They've been using Desmo in F1 V6's & V8's for the later part of the 70's and 80's. I like that you've applied the system to an american V8, but you're coining this "idea" that of your own, how can you take an invention and say you've reinvented it when it's virtually the same system?
@Mistaboost Ok, you seem to be one of many who miss the main point. We fully realize and acknowledge that desmodromic systems have been around sometime and NO we are not approaching this like this as an original creation. What we do claim and challenge anyone, is to find a desmodromic system that has been developed for an American push rod V8 valvetrain. It is not the same system for an OHC engine, that is what makes this unique.
@TheHiryder When you say nothing new, I am wondering where you might point to another example of a desmodromic valve train system being used in an American V-8 engine?
Ignore all the naysayers. Have a few questions comments though. I used to have a rev kit (additional springs that seat at the bottom lip of cylinder head valley overhang and seat on top of the lifter) on a sig erson billet roller cam 778 lift in addition to triple valve springs in a chevy small block. I could see how this would save/conserve horsepower. Do you have a way to measure how much horse power is consumed by having to push open the valve springs?
@muscatbr To give you an example on a 12 valve 3800. I did a dyno test going from 90# to 130# (seated pressure) springs on both intake and exhaust I lost about 10-12whp through the power band. It was significant because I was also testing the engine flow on this 8.5:1 compression motor (L67 engine code) with no supercharger - in order to learn more about the engine off boost to size a proper turbo charger.
The desmodromic system is new to me and very intriguing stuff! Have you tried your system on comestic OHC engines? Also how do you achieve proper valve-seating without valve-springs?
that valve train requires a lot of maintenance. more problematic. cup cars run around 10,000 rpm with teal springs. pneumatic valves would do better than steal and these decuir things
@EmpEntTV I've spent zero hours in the dyno room proving anything...but, countless numbers of engineers have spent countless numbers of hours have...and they have all concluded what I said...are you claiming that pneumatic springs aren't better than your valve train?
@swoopp We believe there are a variety of systems that are better than the conventional valve trains that utilize conventional valve springs. A Desmodromic system is one of many that can have more of an advantage than most, is it better than the pneumatic? lets put it to the dyno and see.
4) Silly NASCAR and other USA racing rules DONT ALLOW OHC designs!
5) Some years ago Chrysler messed with SOHC and DOHC designs for a 305 smallblock for their racing program, The NO OHC rules killed it, but i would LOVE to put some on a 318 or 340...
6) OHC can be belt, chain, or gear driven, just like pushrod cams
7) I do worry about the durability of the groove/follower 4 the valve closer, wonder if a different system COULD be used. Could the street lumps get some kinda hydraulic lifter?
@TheLimoman54 You are kind of a dumb ass. Everyone who races knows why the no overhead cam rule, dip shit? As far as comparing a 3 liter to a 6 liter is such childish nonsense why didn't you compare it to the Sterling Engine, it has as much relevance. You idiots who like to throw in the F1 cars in as an example fail to say you could field thirty NASCAR teams for a year for the worst F1 team. Oh, any time someone can make the valve train more durable on any engine, it is a good thing!
Read the whole damn thread, theres a few things some ranters need to get clear about.
1) ALL modern engines are OHV, but some are pushrod, some are OHC some are DOHC, but y'all got valves in ya heads, kiddies! We COULD go back to usin an developin' Side Valves!
2) The power figures quoted by many are pointless without Displacements. most OHC engines are smaller for the same power output. A F1 V8 is less than 3 litres, makes a few more HP than a 6 Litre Chevy
is the float more persisten in a pushrod engine than in an OHC? I have never seen anyone giving much attention to float problem where people race OHC cars. I normally see racers use double honeycomb valve springs made of titanium and they can easily rev to 8,5k while some can go up to 10k before float really takes its toll
@seasonedtoker OHC, due to more direct action on valve and spring, eliminates the reciprocating weight of the lifters, pushrods, and in many makes, the rocker arms which the valve springs would have to push back to their rest positions. In an OHV pushrod engine the majority of the recip weight can be greatly reduced by the use of a "rev kit" which adds one additional spring per valve acting directly on the (generally roller) lifter to permit higher RPM.
-GM's Vette-V8 went through a DOHC design phase, which proved that bulky old configuration to be inefficient spatially as well as a weight burden; -while advancements of today's Vette/OHV-engine is a stunning example as to the great advantages inherent in the compact OHV embodiment. Thus seems if Decuir-design could incorporate some type of lt.wt. zero-lash(hydraulic?) provision to compensate for both heat-expansion & wear, --he'd have GM & Ford at his door, owing the fuel-mileage gain alone..!!
you cant reinvent the wheel , this is not new technology ... change the title of this video to >>>> "desmodromic valve train system" . come on now , are we supposed to thank Decuir Engine Technologies for this system ? NOT ! this ain't news to me . patents for this design were applied for in the 1800's
@lolahavasuaz I believe you have missed the point, what makes this new is that it is a desmodromic system for an American V-8 configuration engine. Can you point to any other valve train system of a desmo nature for such a style of engine? Its quite humorous how comments from people with no invention of their own are able to make fairly uneducated comments about this system....just saying
@EmpEntTV still not new just moved onto another in that like ford and mercury wtf is the difference "uh wat makes this new is we changed the name of the car" noooooo same fucking shit
@EmpEntTV While I like the idea and how You built this, it's going to be shockingly expensive to produce,isn't it? And now that an engine can be built with beehive springs, lighter valves, roller lifters and rockers to control friction losses while at the same time allowing higher RPM operation, is there that much of an advantage economically?
Like I said,I like what You're doing, but do You think there's a market big enough to make this profitable?
@EmpEntTV how do you know he hasn't got an invention of his own? I didn't hear him say (or see him type actually) that he doesn't have an invention of his own.
@lolahavasuaz I think you dont know shit about cars, watched this video, looked up desmodromic on wikipedia by googling cam-less engines, and then came here to bitch like you were sooo clever for calling someone out on 30 seconds of research. Your statement is is only slightly less than saying anyone whos machine involves gravity is leeching off of Isaac Newton. Maybe Ford should get on suing GM and Honda for using assembly lines. The design in the form it exists in this video is orginal.
@vtaylor1719 . . hey hey , easy on using cuss words Mr.Taylor , besides I was checking my dip-stick while you were still wearing diapers Son. my automotive knowledge was gained with hands on experience working on and around Volvo Toyota & Volkswagen's since the late '70s . I know what I know , I stated my thoughts , the comments you've made are all over the place from "Jenga games to Family Guy" , soo let me know when you have some plaques on the wall of your Garage if ever . thanks guy
There will be a "spring" somewhere in this setup, its just not in the conventional place, could be on the push rod to hold tension against cam, or built into the rocker assembly, you need something working against it to close the valves.
@weegaz22 what holds the valve closed is the cam shaft itself, if you could even call it that in this engine. But what i think makes this design not suited for everyday use, is i could picture that once that cam shaft wears out, among other valve parts, the fact that valve seal is dependant on the mechanic pull from the valve train will be the killer. Once theres play in the valve train the valves wont seal and you lose compression. Springs leave room for play while still sealing the valves.
I wonder, what is the possibility of developing this system for an old GM 6.2 Diesel. Something like this would help with even just the amount of noise developed from valve slap on diesel engines. If you do have a system for them, please tell me I would be more than happy to order a kit right away.
Can anyone tell me why reed valves have never been developed for internal combustion engines? I repaired many small compressor motors with reed valves. They would run for thousands of hours and an 'overhaul' often meant simply removing the reed and reinstalling it upside down. Goof for several more thousands of hours, too.
@ZeekWolfe1 They are used in the inlet tract of some two-strokes, but would you expect them to stand up to the pressures and temperatures in the actual combustion chamber. I doubt it.
Anyone who has ever built a very high performance pushrod engine knows it takes a lot of force to turn a motor with very high pressure springs. In my own experience it takes about 60-80 foot pounds of torque using a torque wrench to turn the crank. Every engine I have built with high pressure springs, 800-1000 lbs open, has done this. Eliminating the power it takes to do that should free up a good amount of power even with the exact same cam profile.
I`m wondering how the wear would be on the cam system at the cam shaft , normal low power engines can run over 300,000 miles trouble free, the 2,5 liter 4 cylnder GM I had the gear failed on the hub ,and there was some light pitting on the cam. theres a Urepean stationary engine built in the early 1900`s that uses a system like this on the intake valves the youtube clip is titled Tangye disel. you can see a crank that operates springless intake valves on the top of the cylnders
Really? The valves seat as tight as with a valve springed engine? Don't you burn valves with this design? How do you keep the valves seated tight? Zero lash or a negative lash setting?
I don't get it.
I think your system could aid valve springs, but not replace them.
Maybe you should have designed a pneumatic valve spring replacement system instead.
@1971SuperLead Ducati has been doing well with their desmo engines. As for the valve seating,the closing rocker must have some freeplay,and the valve is seated by engine compression and combustion,which is also the way it is on a normal sprung drivetrain. Pneumatic valvetrains on production cars are a dead end,too unreliable. Look into ducati's motorcycle engine operation,it's interesting.
@Oldbmwr100rs The Ducati still has springs even though it uses cams to close the valves as well. I think their design merely allows for the use of lighter valve springs. You have to use springs on the exhaust valves to keep the seats from burning. Unless you are using ceramic valves and seats.....do such things exist yet? Combustion and compression pressures are not enough to keep the exhaust valves from burning as already they are not that far from danger with today's regular spring engines.
@Oldbmwr100rs Those springs are very light and really only work on slow cranking for starting. The springs themselves are almost nothing strength wise,they can be compressed with your fingers.I knew several people who raced Ducati's and would just leave the springs off the race bikes. As for having to stop valve burning,I never heard that,with hard seats and the right valve materials it shouldn't be a problem. In fact,for all the problems I've heard with them,burning valves wasn't one of them.
I can see here that the valvetrain has a lot of inertia, but that's just what anyone expects from a pushrod engine. No wonder we Europeans only use pushrods on big, heavy, slow diesels.
The valve float problem has been mostly solved with better cam profiles, lighter valves, better springs and overhead camshafts. Does the added complexity of this system offer any advantage over the spring based overhead camshafts designs of today?
@ruiferreira89 The whole point of this system is based mainly on use for push rod engines in racing applications. Yes its true that cam profiles, overhead cams and other advances have their advantages, the use of V-8 Chevy, Ford and Dodge racing applications really have great issues with high valve spring pressures, this system is meant to take out the great amount of friction through these high pressures and free up the engine.
@EmpEntTV So you do acknowledge this system is no better than what the rest of the world uses: overhead camshafts.
From what I see your system is just an adaptation of an old idea (desmodronic valves) to today's american engines. It is not a new idea, just a new interpretation of an old one, right?
@ruiferreira89 No sir, you are missing part of the point, in American racing where the technology is dominated by overhead valve V-8's nothing like this has ever had a chance to be implemented. Overhead cam technology is superior but when you have a whole industry that is dominated by OHV engines, creating something "new" based on a proven design is what we are seeking to do.
@9898983 You are missing the point, DOHC technology is obviously a high efficient means of valve actuation. The main issue is that that American racing engines and most American racing series do not use DOHC engines nor will then anytime soon. Our system is meant to enhance what is currently the dominant style of engine based on the current rule books.
LOL Thick idiots. Of course the DOHC is a superior system but they lack the capitalist-driven mindset that what what you do when you're an engineer and want money, is to create a product for an existing market.
@EmpEntTV American Racing isn't an industry, it's a niche market. Let's get that clear, straight away. In any case, it occurs to me the largely increased inertia of a desmodromic valve setup must increase the amount of time it takes for engine revolution changes to occur. Valve float can be eliminated through the use of springs that oscillate at different frequencies, between the main spring and the valve stem, and it does not increase valvetrain inertia. What makes the Decuir system superior
@EmpEntTV wow that 9898983 guy is dumb. i'm very interested but the one thing i didn't here you cover in the video is what is closing the vavles? thanks in advance and i look forward to purchasing some in the future for a 5.0
@mindfuckerification Got to agree with your comments, it is a amazing the amount of uneducated naysayers who think they know better. To answer your question if you noticed in the video there is a special camshaft that has an inner grove which the follower connects to and is helping to open and close the valves much like a connecting rod with the crankshaft. We are hoping to put together something for a 5.0 as we know it is a widely used engine. Thanks! DET
So dude I'm gonna go out and purchase DOHC heads just to get rid of my push rods ? then lest we forget the totally bogus Chains then there's those NONE to cheap 4 cams I'll have to purchase ???? Gee wiz Mr Euro crash .....lemme get back to ya on that order OK ??? NOT....
@EmpEntTV You're right,the sole purpose of this system is control of the valve,reducing friction losses is more power,this has nothing to do with OHC heads.Originally valve springs were too weak for high rpm use,the desmodromic system was made to counter that.Another thing that came from it was being able to make more radical cams and still stop float. With the development of better springs and lighter alloys,it became too costly to bother with.
@EmpEntTV WAY TOO GO ON ENGINEERING AROUND AN ISSUE. I STILL HAVE TOO SAY THOUGH THAT I PREFER LOW RPM POWER AND EFFECIENCY, ALWAYS. GREAT JOB THOUGH, FOR REAL.
now if I could have this with something like an LT-5 chevy with some sort of retrofit variable cam timing then we might be in business against that new 5.0 ford engine.
@CustomDeluxe1984 Valves are not hitting the seats any harder than a normal racing valve spring. With the cam lift and duration set to proper spec its virtually the same.
This is a great concept, but engines like the Chevy Small block shown in the video, must have their valves adjusted constantly (in racing applications). The need all kinds of stud girdles and such to keep the valves in adjustment. I would also think this camshaft design would have limitations as far as lift & duration are concerned.
@InteriorCommando There was a fellow featured in Hot Rod magazine some 20 years ago that did create a rotary port head for the small block Chevy. He was right on the cover with his product. I wonder what ever happened to his design.....probably leaked too much.
@Tony01013 Yes, that's it. Pretty cool, but where the hell is for real? Drawings are nice but can't that actually make it? I think I remember te article saying that leakage was still a big factor.
What ever happened to the rotary engine? I drove a B2000 back in the 77 and was blown away by the performance.
@Tony01013 I just checked out the Coates system....and I smell rats. Al the videos are very unexciting. They show heads and they even show an engine you have to assume is running, but they don't have any quality videos of an engine running with their rotary valve heads.
But Coates is the company I was thinking of. Thank you. They've had 20 years to perfect it since the magazine article. hmmmmm
@1971SuperLead I had high hopes for this technology, it seemed innovative and promising, but i don't think it's going anywhere. The owner of the business was charged with fraud in '94 and the stock is trading "over the counter", which means it's pretty much a junk stock. There is always news on their website of a merger with a Chinese company. So Mr. Coates will get a nice paycheck and we'll probably see the technology disappear for good.
@Tony01013, Wow, thanks for the news. The heads sure sounded like a winner. I remember there were sealing problems however. It's hard to beat a poppet and seat for a good seal. It's fun to try to think of a better design. A rotary ball valve or something else....servo assy maybe. lol
How many rpm can system endure? I am not sold on it being able to withstand the rigors of racing. I am thinking of the 9000-10000 rpm many race engines routinely see. But if it does indeed work for high rpm stuff. I would be great, it is getting tedious changing those valvesprings all the time.
ok so has anyone thought, like on a small block chevy where oil normally travels through the lifter to the push rod to the rocker arms, how oil is going to get to the rocker arms?
@WTR1050 i agree becuz there was no oil visible in that video will the system will the system have to be wet or a dry sump, high pressure or low pressure, so what are those factors in that design????
Ok maybe its just me being tired, but how the heck does the valves keep from slapping the piston, has to have some kind of tension to keep them from destroying a motor in 1sec or less?!!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!??!?!?!????
@Untilthird, The cam is specially made and has an inner groove that pushes and pulls the pushrod in order to open and close the valve. The valve actuation is positive and no contact with the piston is possible.
This system would be perfect on that new Motus KMV-4 motorcycle engine. It would be really nice to see a US equivalent of a Ducati Desmo valvetrain turn that supertourer into a full-blown superbike engine.
@tahotoy i competely agree with u thot they barely had thing thing up to operating temps, besides most valvetrain is under load with being test and at correct temp and pushed to max revs
The more I look at this system the more I like it. Have you guys done any engineering studies to test how Variable Valve timing would work without springs?
@vgv21 Thanks for such a scholarly and well investigated response. The automotive world is beckoning for a keen mind such as yours and we could all benefit by your great mechanical insight. I am sure you have spent hour upon hour investigating this system and we would like to thank you for bringing this to the worlds attention.
Looks very good but wouldn't you be constantly adjusting the valve-train as things wear to prevent power loss, noise and wear? There is no "self adjust-ability" like with hydraulic lifters and valve spring type assemblies. Just a thought....
@289pinto This system is currently setup for a racing application, so just like any other performance valve train it needs manual adjustment and is not really set up as a self adjusting system. We fee that the advantage of taking away the valve springs helps reduce friction and the amount of torque and horsepower needed to overcome the spring rates on racing valve springs. Decuir Engine Technologies.
ps would like to see a picture of your pinto, we are pinto fans.
@EmpEntTV Thanks for the reply, and will do, in the process of some mods/upgrades as we speak... Just a little refresh, gaskets, roller rockers, lol, demon carb, power steering etc... Post some pics soon...
@289pinto I think that's a very good thought, the slightest wear would stop the valves from sealing though I guess it would only be used for one or two races, then rebuilt ??
THIS IS BRILLIANT! I hope you end up FILTHY RICH! I really think you've got something here.... I see this being the way all engines are made soon!! AMERICAN INGENUITY! =)
@joedrummer2010, Thanks for the kind words, we are hoping for the "rich" part but we are still in development and it maybe a while before we strike "gold."
This is genious. Eliminates like what the other person said valve float and eliminates the problem of having to replace the springs when they get worn out
When I first saw this video I thought "why not use a dohc" (and had a lenghty discusion with ZO6 guy) but I have now read the Nascar rules and ohc cams are banned in this sport, so now it makes sense. Don't see any advantages in road cars but for ohv race classes it would work. good luck with it.
@Warblade 118 It looks like the pushrod has some sort of pin that fits into that slot on the camshaft lobe- the cam can then both push and pull the rod, the rocker looks like its connected via a motorcycle type removable chain link to the valve stem. Cool idea if it can be retro-fitted. Otherwise why not go OHC?
@FeelTehBa55 Thank you for that well thought out and highly intelligent response. Can you please forward a link to the system that you have been able to develop over the past few years. I think the rest of the world would benefit from your great insights into automotive technology.
well tbh i think its not a viable concept for a road car, but would be more effective on a 4 valves a cylinder motor, by using 2 cams right beside the crankshaft and connect by pushrods that way (on a inline engine) also there does seem to be a bit of valve tap too
Looks like some beautiful machine work. Do the cams push a tab on the side of the valve. Is this a workaround on the Ducati valve system? Looks like a pair of parallel round stock or rollers, the little cam is on the bottom side of the head?
@EmpEntTV It's simply not strong enough for racing. Only if lifter engaged on both sides of the cam lobe would it be strong enough. You might get one or two races out of it but applying both tension and compression loads off the centerline of the lifter like that, on what is really a very small amount of material is going to result in it failing from fatigue in pretty short order. Of course making it grab on center, IE two grooves on each lobe, it probably won't fit in engine.
How would you know that? how many engine/valvetrain systems have you developed in the last couple of years. You can't claim something does not work if you have not done the same type of testing and development that we have put in over the last 20 years. Decuir Engine Technologies
v8 means nothing, anyone can make loads of horse power with a v8 because of the large displacement most of them have, it takes more skill to make a 2.0 inline 4 to get it to run big hp boys, this could also bee improved, it also looks like that the rod on the cam was going to come off, nice desin though, and i also think it would be too hard for a twin cam engine
@mushere2k9 Not really, you just shorten up the stroke, rev the nuts off of it and boost the living hell out of it. Why would having two cams make this any more difficult to work? It would not, if it works on one it'll work on more you fucking idiot. Learn how to logic retard.
@Polybun hahaha retard good that, if only you came up with something new fucktard and also i know what im talking about mate, ive worked on cars long enough that a twin cam motor is better, 4 valves are better that 2 PROVEN next time ill ram those word up you aft end if you call me retard again
@mushere2k9 You might want to rethink that 4 vs 2 idea. The LT-5 Corvette engine was 4 valve and never made the power that the LS-7 2 valve engine is turning out. Not saying that the 4 valve motor couldn't be made to produce more power but when you look at the success of the Corvette endurance race cars today they more than hold their own against 4 valve competition.
@f6john oh yes, you are right SOME 2 valve engines are more powerful but i think with that engine it was more of a case of the whole engine itself was desinged better, and 2 valves are more oftenly used in racing car engines as there isnt as much friction too (because it only runs one camshaft) but i think smaller I4 engines benifit more with a twin cam 16 valve setup, like the rover K series engines
I really like the idea, but I'm looking more for an electronic-solenoid solution to eliminate the camshaft as well.... That's when you'll really start to save some wasted power....
@terryeffinp Not really. With solenoids you still need valve springs. Less you go with air solenoids, then you need an on board supply of high pressure gas like nitrogen or such to attain the force needed to actuate them at high rpm. Learn some physics.
@Polybun You could use dual action electric solenoids. No springs necessary there but the plunger still is a heavy object and would be no match for a dual action pneumatic solenoid system. The car could have a pneumatic compressor operated by the engines exhaust system or a belt drive. At lower engine speeds lower pneumatic pressure would work while at higher RPMS the engine would develop the higher pressures required to operate the valves. Self regulating! Now add an accumulator.
only problem i see with this design is that if you were to 'tighten" the valve locking nuts too far (reducing the amount of travel from the valve face to the valve seat) would end up with the valvetrain literally trying to pull the entire valve through the head. obviously this could be avoided with some attention to clearance but as the engine warms up and parts contract and expand, those clearances are going to change, resulting in either a poor seal or unnecessary strain
Hey, cool design. I was just wondering about the oiling of the valvetrain. How is the oil delivered to the rockers and other components in this system? Is it still delivered via the lifter and pushrod or are there other ways that allow oil flow? Also what provisions are there to keep this in tune and how frequently would one have to tune this system? Thanks
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I can see potential in something like this when used in competition, but for overall longevity, I see too much potential for failure. The main thing I see is the increased amount of friction surfaces, and the possibility of stretch and shear would appear to be exponentially increased also. Ultimately, I think The overhead cam is the way to go. Be warned...NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies are indeed looking at the possibility of overhead cam engines in the near future..5-7 years tops.
Remindes Me of Ducati's Desmo system. Just it use just a single cam or is the closing portion a different cam mounted piggyback somewhere? I couldn't tell from the video.
Fascinanting. When I think of how much resistance a traditional valvetrain exerts, this seems like it would free up loads of power. If you used an electric water pump and fuel pump, the only resistance (besides compression and the tranny) would be the alternator, oil pump, and tiny amount from the distrbutor. Power steering too, I guess, but this is a pretty cool concept. Looks a little too expensive for the street though. I hope it's selling well in the race community. Well done, Alex Decuir.
@gblpst81 It was something I read a really long time ago so don’t hold me to this exact number, but I remember reading a typical V8 valve train can take as much as 75HP just to operate. On a 350HP engine that’s huge. I’d bet the HP drain would be even higher on high performance engines. BTW I wouldn’t take what that eurotrash douchebag says seriously. He thinks ohc is something new that instantly makes an engine superior? That’s laughable.
@Warblade118 The thing is with this system is that it wears out faster and needs lots of adjustment in short periods. Look at Ducati motorcyles, their valvetrains needs adjustments quite often especially compared with a Yamaha. An LS3, what adjustments??? Plus a V-8 doesn't sound like a lawnmower with a burnt muffler?
You guys are about 40 years too late! They've been using Desmo in F1 V6's & V8's for the later part of the 70's and 80's. I like that you've applied the system to an american V8, but you're coining this "idea" that of your own, how can you take an invention and say you've reinvented it when it's virtually the same system?
Mistaboost 5 days ago
@Mistaboost Ok, you seem to be one of many who miss the main point. We fully realize and acknowledge that desmodromic systems have been around sometime and NO we are not approaching this like this as an original creation. What we do claim and challenge anyone, is to find a desmodromic system that has been developed for an American push rod V8 valvetrain. It is not the same system for an OHC engine, that is what makes this unique.
DET
EmpEntTV 5 days ago
@jsesTM check the guy at kanh academy channel... you will like him even more
TheYTCable 2 weeks ago
makes sense!
TheYTCable 2 weeks ago
Copied from Italian Ducati engine, nothing new.
TheHiryder 1 month ago
@TheHiryder When you say nothing new, I am wondering where you might point to another example of a desmodromic valve train system being used in an American V-8 engine?
DET
EmpEntTV 1 month ago 2
Ignore all the naysayers. Have a few questions comments though. I used to have a rev kit (additional springs that seat at the bottom lip of cylinder head valley overhang and seat on top of the lifter) on a sig erson billet roller cam 778 lift in addition to triple valve springs in a chevy small block. I could see how this would save/conserve horsepower. Do you have a way to measure how much horse power is consumed by having to push open the valve springs?
How much horsepower is saved using
muscatbr 1 month ago
@muscatbr To give you an example on a 12 valve 3800. I did a dyno test going from 90# to 130# (seated pressure) springs on both intake and exhaust I lost about 10-12whp through the power band. It was significant because I was also testing the engine flow on this 8.5:1 compression motor (L67 engine code) with no supercharger - in order to learn more about the engine off boost to size a proper turbo charger.
It made 150 whp before. and about 140 whp after.
Nettikturbo 1 month ago
The desmodromic system is new to me and very intriguing stuff! Have you tried your system on comestic OHC engines? Also how do you achieve proper valve-seating without valve-springs?
eddiesautoworks 2 months ago
@eddiesautoworks, check out this other link on You Tube, Look up EmpEntTV and you will see our other video that is related to an OHC system.
We have done this for OHC engines as well. Valve seating is achieved through a cam system that both pushes the valve open and then pulls it shut.
DET
EmpEntTV 2 months ago
that valve train requires a lot of maintenance. more problematic. cup cars run around 10,000 rpm with teal springs. pneumatic valves would do better than steal and these decuir things
swoopp 2 months ago
@swoopp How would you know that? how many hours have you spent on the dyno proving your point?
DET
EmpEntTV 2 months ago
@EmpEntTV I've spent zero hours in the dyno room proving anything...but, countless numbers of engineers have spent countless numbers of hours have...and they have all concluded what I said...are you claiming that pneumatic springs aren't better than your valve train?
swoopp 1 week ago
@swoopp We believe there are a variety of systems that are better than the conventional valve trains that utilize conventional valve springs. A Desmodromic system is one of many that can have more of an advantage than most, is it better than the pneumatic? lets put it to the dyno and see.
EmpEntTV 1 week ago
...but I like floating my valves :(
ifixipods 2 months ago
@ifixipods LOL, hope you like the expense that comes with floating valves as well.
EmpEntTV 2 months ago
Cool, what's it do at 10 grand?
MrBowtie95 2 months ago
This doesn't look like it would last at anything over 5K.
XxENovaxX 2 months ago
in regard to item 2: i know of some great American engines that are 2-stroke, OHC, and turn out wayyyy in excess of 600 Horsepower!
TheLimoman54 2 months ago
4) Silly NASCAR and other USA racing rules DONT ALLOW OHC designs!
5) Some years ago Chrysler messed with SOHC and DOHC designs for a 305 smallblock for their racing program, The NO OHC rules killed it, but i would LOVE to put some on a 318 or 340...
6) OHC can be belt, chain, or gear driven, just like pushrod cams
7) I do worry about the durability of the groove/follower 4 the valve closer, wonder if a different system COULD be used. Could the street lumps get some kinda hydraulic lifter?
TheLimoman54 2 months ago
@TheLimoman54 You are kind of a dumb ass. Everyone who races knows why the no overhead cam rule, dip shit? As far as comparing a 3 liter to a 6 liter is such childish nonsense why didn't you compare it to the Sterling Engine, it has as much relevance. You idiots who like to throw in the F1 cars in as an example fail to say you could field thirty NASCAR teams for a year for the worst F1 team. Oh, any time someone can make the valve train more durable on any engine, it is a good thing!
badmoonryzn 2 months ago
Read the whole damn thread, theres a few things some ranters need to get clear about.
1) ALL modern engines are OHV, but some are pushrod, some are OHC some are DOHC, but y'all got valves in ya heads, kiddies! We COULD go back to usin an developin' Side Valves!
2) The power figures quoted by many are pointless without Displacements. most OHC engines are smaller for the same power output. A F1 V8 is less than 3 litres, makes a few more HP than a 6 Litre Chevy
3) Dis is for Pushrods
TheLimoman54 2 months ago
My 1976 Ducati 900cc desmo allready had a similar valve system!
catalinaumbert 4 months ago
Springs are the disease.....
Alex is "Decuire"....!
telescopereplicator 5 months ago
isn`t this similar to the system that Ducati use in the desmo engine?
sweddehli 5 months ago
@sweddehli YEP.
MrMelon49 5 months ago
is the float more persisten in a pushrod engine than in an OHC? I have never seen anyone giving much attention to float problem where people race OHC cars. I normally see racers use double honeycomb valve springs made of titanium and they can easily rev to 8,5k while some can go up to 10k before float really takes its toll
seasonedtoker 6 months ago
@seasonedtoker OHC, due to more direct action on valve and spring, eliminates the reciprocating weight of the lifters, pushrods, and in many makes, the rocker arms which the valve springs would have to push back to their rest positions. In an OHV pushrod engine the majority of the recip weight can be greatly reduced by the use of a "rev kit" which adds one additional spring per valve acting directly on the (generally roller) lifter to permit higher RPM.
MrMelon49 5 months ago
-GM's Vette-V8 went through a DOHC design phase, which proved that bulky old configuration to be inefficient spatially as well as a weight burden; -while advancements of today's Vette/OHV-engine is a stunning example as to the great advantages inherent in the compact OHV embodiment. Thus seems if Decuir-design could incorporate some type of lt.wt. zero-lash(hydraulic?) provision to compensate for both heat-expansion & wear, --he'd have GM & Ford at his door, owing the fuel-mileage gain alone..!!
AryanKnight 7 months ago
You could also call this a single lobe desmo. If all contacts ball bearing, wow.
CBKillas 7 months ago
you cant reinvent the wheel , this is not new technology ... change the title of this video to >>>> "desmodromic valve train system" . come on now , are we supposed to thank Decuir Engine Technologies for this system ? NOT ! this ain't news to me . patents for this design were applied for in the 1800's
just saying ...
lolahavasuaz 7 months ago 16
@lolahavasuaz I believe you have missed the point, what makes this new is that it is a desmodromic system for an American V-8 configuration engine. Can you point to any other valve train system of a desmo nature for such a style of engine? Its quite humorous how comments from people with no invention of their own are able to make fairly uneducated comments about this system....just saying
DET
EmpEntTV 7 months ago 3
@EmpEntTV good point ... no harm intended to this up-load , it's all good
lolahavasuaz 7 months ago
@EmpEntTV still not new just moved onto another in that like ford and mercury wtf is the difference "uh wat makes this new is we changed the name of the car" noooooo same fucking shit
xstr33tr4cerx 7 months ago
@EmpEntTV While I like the idea and how You built this, it's going to be shockingly expensive to produce,isn't it? And now that an engine can be built with beehive springs, lighter valves, roller lifters and rockers to control friction losses while at the same time allowing higher RPM operation, is there that much of an advantage economically?
Like I said,I like what You're doing, but do You think there's a market big enough to make this profitable?
Oldbmwr100rs 5 months ago
@EmpEntTV how do you know he hasn't got an invention of his own? I didn't hear him say (or see him type actually) that he doesn't have an invention of his own.
ibleed1 5 months ago
@ibleed1 >>picking fly shit out of pepper
cbh148 4 months ago in playlist valve train
@EmpEntTV The technology isn't new I think he means to say. This system was used on engines in the late 1800s
Z28Racer 2 weeks ago
@EmpEntTV just saying...you didnt invent this. you just applied it to another engine. dont get your panties in a twist.
teamEP789 1 week ago
@lolahavasuaz : This is NOT a desmodronic valvetrain!
A Desmodronic System has two lobes per valve, one to open it and one to close it.
This slottet lobe is a nice idea, but I wonder if the follower-pin is able to take the stress of High-rpm use.
But a nice Idea to make a high-reving pushrod-V8 more practical.
bansheemopar 4 months ago
@lolahavasuaz I think you dont know shit about cars, watched this video, looked up desmodromic on wikipedia by googling cam-less engines, and then came here to bitch like you were sooo clever for calling someone out on 30 seconds of research. Your statement is is only slightly less than saying anyone whos machine involves gravity is leeching off of Isaac Newton. Maybe Ford should get on suing GM and Honda for using assembly lines. The design in the form it exists in this video is orginal.
vtaylor1719 2 months ago
@vtaylor1719 . . hey hey , easy on using cuss words Mr.Taylor , besides I was checking my dip-stick while you were still wearing diapers Son. my automotive knowledge was gained with hands on experience working on and around Volvo Toyota & Volkswagen's since the late '70s . I know what I know , I stated my thoughts , the comments you've made are all over the place from "Jenga games to Family Guy" , soo let me know when you have some plaques on the wall of your Garage if ever . thanks guy
lolahavasuaz 2 months ago
Isn't this simply a variation on the Ducati Desmo valve operating system?
superduckz 7 months ago
There will be a "spring" somewhere in this setup, its just not in the conventional place, could be on the push rod to hold tension against cam, or built into the rocker assembly, you need something working against it to close the valves.
weegaz22 8 months ago
@weegaz22 what holds the valve closed is the cam shaft itself, if you could even call it that in this engine. But what i think makes this design not suited for everyday use, is i could picture that once that cam shaft wears out, among other valve parts, the fact that valve seal is dependant on the mechanic pull from the valve train will be the killer. Once theres play in the valve train the valves wont seal and you lose compression. Springs leave room for play while still sealing the valves.
SaGalv 8 months ago 3
Say bye bye to valve floats, dropped valves etc. This is a great innovation compared to what Ducati did .
MrCwaigo 9 months ago
bet it costs a fortune
tunastrike11 9 months ago
I wonder, what is the possibility of developing this system for an old GM 6.2 Diesel. Something like this would help with even just the amount of noise developed from valve slap on diesel engines. If you do have a system for them, please tell me I would be more than happy to order a kit right away.
heavyd2062 9 months ago
Can anyone tell me why reed valves have never been developed for internal combustion engines? I repaired many small compressor motors with reed valves. They would run for thousands of hours and an 'overhaul' often meant simply removing the reed and reinstalling it upside down. Goof for several more thousands of hours, too.
ZeekWolfe1 10 months ago
@ZeekWolfe1 They are used in the inlet tract of some two-strokes, but would you expect them to stand up to the pressures and temperatures in the actual combustion chamber. I doubt it.
spentacle 9 months ago
@ZeekWolfe1 Reeds only work on two strokes....I think.
1971SuperLead 9 months ago
Anyone who has ever built a very high performance pushrod engine knows it takes a lot of force to turn a motor with very high pressure springs. In my own experience it takes about 60-80 foot pounds of torque using a torque wrench to turn the crank. Every engine I have built with high pressure springs, 800-1000 lbs open, has done this. Eliminating the power it takes to do that should free up a good amount of power even with the exact same cam profile.
dv713 10 months ago
I had a Honda motorcycle from the 70s that had a springless valve train.
Sting6200 10 months ago
If this thing actually worked, they'd install them at the factory.
jrkepler 10 months ago
I`m wondering how the wear would be on the cam system at the cam shaft , normal low power engines can run over 300,000 miles trouble free, the 2,5 liter 4 cylnder GM I had the gear failed on the hub ,and there was some light pitting on the cam. theres a Urepean stationary engine built in the early 1900`s that uses a system like this on the intake valves the youtube clip is titled Tangye disel. you can see a crank that operates springless intake valves on the top of the cylnders
chuckbear1961 10 months ago 2
Show me some R's!
Slugg0matic 11 months ago
Really? The valves seat as tight as with a valve springed engine? Don't you burn valves with this design? How do you keep the valves seated tight? Zero lash or a negative lash setting?
I don't get it.
I think your system could aid valve springs, but not replace them.
Maybe you should have designed a pneumatic valve spring replacement system instead.
1971SuperLead 11 months ago
@1971SuperLead Ducati has been doing well with their desmo engines. As for the valve seating,the closing rocker must have some freeplay,and the valve is seated by engine compression and combustion,which is also the way it is on a normal sprung drivetrain. Pneumatic valvetrains on production cars are a dead end,too unreliable. Look into ducati's motorcycle engine operation,it's interesting.
Oldbmwr100rs 10 months ago
@Oldbmwr100rs The Ducati still has springs even though it uses cams to close the valves as well. I think their design merely allows for the use of lighter valve springs. You have to use springs on the exhaust valves to keep the seats from burning. Unless you are using ceramic valves and seats.....do such things exist yet? Combustion and compression pressures are not enough to keep the exhaust valves from burning as already they are not that far from danger with today's regular spring engines.
1971SuperLead 10 months ago
@Oldbmwr100rs Those springs are very light and really only work on slow cranking for starting. The springs themselves are almost nothing strength wise,they can be compressed with your fingers.I knew several people who raced Ducati's and would just leave the springs off the race bikes. As for having to stop valve burning,I never heard that,with hard seats and the right valve materials it shouldn't be a problem. In fact,for all the problems I've heard with them,burning valves wasn't one of them.
Oldbmwr100rs 10 months ago
if we could eliminate valve float for our honda vtec engines without using phnuemantic valve(F1 technology), that would be great.
beekyosuke 11 months ago
nice job there...keep going!...Bob S.
CoolFactorBikes 11 months ago
How is this any better than desmodronic valves?
I can see here that the valvetrain has a lot of inertia, but that's just what anyone expects from a pushrod engine. No wonder we Europeans only use pushrods on big, heavy, slow diesels.
The valve float problem has been mostly solved with better cam profiles, lighter valves, better springs and overhead camshafts. Does the added complexity of this system offer any advantage over the spring based overhead camshafts designs of today?
ruiferreira89 11 months ago
@ruiferreira89 The whole point of this system is based mainly on use for push rod engines in racing applications. Yes its true that cam profiles, overhead cams and other advances have their advantages, the use of V-8 Chevy, Ford and Dodge racing applications really have great issues with high valve spring pressures, this system is meant to take out the great amount of friction through these high pressures and free up the engine.
DET
EmpEntTV 11 months ago
@EmpEntTV So you do acknowledge this system is no better than what the rest of the world uses: overhead camshafts.
From what I see your system is just an adaptation of an old idea (desmodronic valves) to today's american engines. It is not a new idea, just a new interpretation of an old one, right?
ruiferreira89 11 months ago
@ruiferreira89 No sir, you are missing part of the point, in American racing where the technology is dominated by overhead valve V-8's nothing like this has ever had a chance to be implemented. Overhead cam technology is superior but when you have a whole industry that is dominated by OHV engines, creating something "new" based on a proven design is what we are seeking to do.
EmpEntTV 11 months ago
@EmpEntTV push rods are not racing engines push rod is from 1773 its not new just give it up and get DOHC its just better
9898983 11 months ago
@9898983 You are missing the point, DOHC technology is obviously a high efficient means of valve actuation. The main issue is that that American racing engines and most American racing series do not use DOHC engines nor will then anytime soon. Our system is meant to enhance what is currently the dominant style of engine based on the current rule books.
DET
EmpEntTV 11 months ago
@EmpEntTV
LOL Thick idiots. Of course the DOHC is a superior system but they lack the capitalist-driven mindset that what what you do when you're an engineer and want money, is to create a product for an existing market.
corotor12345 10 months ago
@EmpEntTV It's just one of the rules in the Nascar formula, DOHC is not allowed. So it's useful to use this technology.
Mcguppy 10 months ago
@EmpEntTV American Racing isn't an industry, it's a niche market. Let's get that clear, straight away. In any case, it occurs to me the largely increased inertia of a desmodromic valve setup must increase the amount of time it takes for engine revolution changes to occur. Valve float can be eliminated through the use of springs that oscillate at different frequencies, between the main spring and the valve stem, and it does not increase valvetrain inertia. What makes the Decuir system superior
SchizoFilms 9 months ago
@EmpEntTV to this sort of floatless system?
SchizoFilms 9 months ago
@EmpEntTV wow that 9898983 guy is dumb. i'm very interested but the one thing i didn't here you cover in the video is what is closing the vavles? thanks in advance and i look forward to purchasing some in the future for a 5.0
mindfuckerification 9 months ago
@mindfuckerification Got to agree with your comments, it is a amazing the amount of uneducated naysayers who think they know better. To answer your question if you noticed in the video there is a special camshaft that has an inner grove which the follower connects to and is helping to open and close the valves much like a connecting rod with the crankshaft. We are hoping to put together something for a 5.0 as we know it is a widely used engine. Thanks! DET
EmpEntTV 9 months ago
So dude I'm gonna go out and purchase DOHC heads just to get rid of my push rods ? then lest we forget the totally bogus Chains then there's those NONE to cheap 4 cams I'll have to purchase ???? Gee wiz Mr Euro crash .....lemme get back to ya on that order OK ??? NOT....
TheRoguelement 9 months ago
@EmpEntTV You're right,the sole purpose of this system is control of the valve,reducing friction losses is more power,this has nothing to do with OHC heads.Originally valve springs were too weak for high rpm use,the desmodromic system was made to counter that.Another thing that came from it was being able to make more radical cams and still stop float. With the development of better springs and lighter alloys,it became too costly to bother with.
Oldbmwr100rs 10 months ago
@EmpEntTV WAY TOO GO ON ENGINEERING AROUND AN ISSUE. I STILL HAVE TOO SAY THOUGH THAT I PREFER LOW RPM POWER AND EFFECIENCY, ALWAYS. GREAT JOB THOUGH, FOR REAL.
RockFORD8371HAYLEY3B 10 months ago
@ruiferreira89 I had a Honda motorcycle from the 70s with a springless valve train.
Sting6200 10 months ago
@ruiferreira89 Show us all the 8,000 horsepower 500 inch limit overhead cam racing engines.
NEokcTERROR 9 months ago
looking at the pic...I see what looks like a barrel type roller that holds the end of the
valve to the rocker. What keeps the valve retained in that barrel? Is it some type of
e-clip that holds the end of the valve .... or is it crossed pinned in some way ? Brought up beyond
the normal operating temp .... would extreme temps effect the valve / seat relationship?
How would the valve be able to rotate to keep from galling - pitting from cylinder temps? Just curious ......
khabx6 11 months ago
1000% Genius
oldford71 11 months ago
now if I could have this with something like an LT-5 chevy with some sort of retrofit variable cam timing then we might be in business against that new 5.0 ford engine.
Laughry 1 year ago
That is a great desing. Thank you so much for showing this!! I am very impress.. Again thank you.
Destinboats1 1 year ago
I want it!!
lolhahalol58 1 year ago
F1 cars do use cams u idiot
SICKJ0KER 1 year ago
Is the technology available for the average hot rodder and what's the range of camshaft profiles like for ford, chrysler etc.?
trimbot6 1 year ago
seems like another thing too go wrong
asambi69 1 year ago
what keeps the valves from breaking? wouldnt they be hitting their seats alot harder than with a spring pulling them back up?
CustomDeluxe1984 1 year ago
@CustomDeluxe1984 Valves are not hitting the seats any harder than a normal racing valve spring. With the cam lift and duration set to proper spec its virtually the same.
DECUIR ENGINE TECHONOLGIE
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
Desmodromic engines have been around since ww2
jrkepler 1 year ago
Formula one engines use electricicty and no camshaft at all!
MrTimodon 1 year ago
This is a great concept, but engines like the Chevy Small block shown in the video, must have their valves adjusted constantly (in racing applications). The need all kinds of stud girdles and such to keep the valves in adjustment. I would also think this camshaft design would have limitations as far as lift & duration are concerned.
4thstooge 1 year ago
desmodromic valves some of the ducati race engines have a similar concept but it uses three cams two cams open valves an one closes
09kbock 1 year ago
You're on the right track.. I've been captivated by a "rota -port " design...no valves.. just rotary timed ports..
InteriorCommando 1 year ago
@InteriorCommando There was a fellow featured in Hot Rod magazine some 20 years ago that did create a rotary port head for the small block Chevy. He was right on the cover with his product. I wonder what ever happened to his design.....probably leaked too much.
1971SuperLead 10 months ago
@1971SuperLead Coates spherical rotary valve system is what you're talking about. Google it and you should come up with their website.
Tony01013 9 months ago
@Tony01013 Yes, that's it. Pretty cool, but where the hell is for real? Drawings are nice but can't that actually make it? I think I remember te article saying that leakage was still a big factor.
What ever happened to the rotary engine? I drove a B2000 back in the 77 and was blown away by the performance.
1971SuperLead 9 months ago
@Tony01013 I just checked out the Coates system....and I smell rats. Al the videos are very unexciting. They show heads and they even show an engine you have to assume is running, but they don't have any quality videos of an engine running with their rotary valve heads.
But Coates is the company I was thinking of. Thank you. They've had 20 years to perfect it since the magazine article. hmmmmm
1971SuperLead 9 months ago
@1971SuperLead I had high hopes for this technology, it seemed innovative and promising, but i don't think it's going anywhere. The owner of the business was charged with fraud in '94 and the stock is trading "over the counter", which means it's pretty much a junk stock. There is always news on their website of a merger with a Chinese company. So Mr. Coates will get a nice paycheck and we'll probably see the technology disappear for good.
Tony01013 9 months ago
@Tony01013, Wow, thanks for the news. The heads sure sounded like a winner. I remember there were sealing problems however. It's hard to beat a poppet and seat for a good seal. It's fun to try to think of a better design. A rotary ball valve or something else....servo assy maybe. lol
1971SuperLead 9 months ago
what happens when there is even the slightest amount of wear on the cam? what is holding tension on the valve to keep it sealed properly?
MrTurboturbine 1 year ago
How many rpm can system endure? I am not sold on it being able to withstand the rigors of racing. I am thinking of the 9000-10000 rpm many race engines routinely see. But if it does indeed work for high rpm stuff. I would be great, it is getting tedious changing those valvesprings all the time.
sunelarsen 1 year ago
ok so has anyone thought, like on a small block chevy where oil normally travels through the lifter to the push rod to the rocker arms, how oil is going to get to the rocker arms?
WTR1050 1 year ago
@WTR1050 i agree becuz there was no oil visible in that video will the system will the system have to be wet or a dry sump, high pressure or low pressure, so what are those factors in that design????
MrStander10 1 year ago
Ok maybe its just me being tired, but how the heck does the valves keep from slapping the piston, has to have some kind of tension to keep them from destroying a motor in 1sec or less?!!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!??!?!?!????
Untilthird 1 year ago
@Untilthird, The cam is specially made and has an inner groove that pushes and pulls the pushrod in order to open and close the valve. The valve actuation is positive and no contact with the piston is possible.
DECUIR ENGINE TECHNOLOGIES
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
This system would be perfect on that new Motus KMV-4 motorcycle engine. It would be really nice to see a US equivalent of a Ducati Desmo valvetrain turn that supertourer into a full-blown superbike engine.
kibcubed 1 year ago
@kibcubed Thanks for the comments!
DECUIR ENGINE TECHOLOGIES
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
They say a picture's worth a thousand words. EMP ! Put the covers back on, warm it up, and lets see this thing make a few hard runs !
tahotoy 1 year ago
@tahotoy i competely agree with u thot they barely had thing thing up to operating temps, besides most valvetrain is under load with being test and at correct temp and pushed to max revs
MrStander10 1 year ago
The more I look at this system the more I like it. Have you guys done any engineering studies to test how Variable Valve timing would work without springs?
DocWolph 1 year ago
@vgv21 Thanks for such a scholarly and well investigated response. The automotive world is beckoning for a keen mind such as yours and we could all benefit by your great mechanical insight. I am sure you have spent hour upon hour investigating this system and we would like to thank you for bringing this to the worlds attention.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
it's always the same with americans, trying to reinvent the wheel.
with this setup you need to buy a new cam + cam follower after each race.
i'm sure after a while the valve will not close properly
this is no way to get a perfect ginrd like on regular cams, where they use huge grinding stones to get a perfect finish..
this would never work in a road car
just use pneumatic setup, like in F1, this system is so 1955.
build pneumatic cylinder around the valve stem and you almost done.
DeutchEngines 1 year ago
Looks very good but wouldn't you be constantly adjusting the valve-train as things wear to prevent power loss, noise and wear? There is no "self adjust-ability" like with hydraulic lifters and valve spring type assemblies. Just a thought....
289pinto 1 year ago 8
@289pinto This system is currently setup for a racing application, so just like any other performance valve train it needs manual adjustment and is not really set up as a self adjusting system. We fee that the advantage of taking away the valve springs helps reduce friction and the amount of torque and horsepower needed to overcome the spring rates on racing valve springs. Decuir Engine Technologies.
ps would like to see a picture of your pinto, we are pinto fans.
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV Thanks for the reply, and will do, in the process of some mods/upgrades as we speak... Just a little refresh, gaskets, roller rockers, lol, demon carb, power steering etc... Post some pics soon...
289pinto 1 year ago
@289pinto I think that's a very good thought, the slightest wear would stop the valves from sealing though I guess it would only be used for one or two races, then rebuilt ??
manofweed1 6 months ago
how do you plan to get this to the average person?
ryanjames170 1 year ago
@ryanjames170 This specific system is meant more for a racing application, our overhead cam system would be more feasible for street use.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
THIS IS BRILLIANT! I hope you end up FILTHY RICH! I really think you've got something here.... I see this being the way all engines are made soon!! AMERICAN INGENUITY! =)
joedrummer2010 1 year ago
@joedrummer2010, Thanks for the kind words, we are hoping for the "rich" part but we are still in development and it maybe a while before we strike "gold."
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
This is genious. Eliminates like what the other person said valve float and eliminates the problem of having to replace the springs when they get worn out
walkingfreak 1 year ago
Actually pretty sweet. Eliminates problems with springs, such as valve float etc.
Jdub121686 1 year ago
@Jdub121686 Someone who gets it!
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
When I first saw this video I thought "why not use a dohc" (and had a lenghty discusion with ZO6 guy) but I have now read the Nascar rules and ohc cams are banned in this sport, so now it makes sense. Don't see any advantages in road cars but for ohv race classes it would work. good luck with it.
Mcguppy 1 year ago
@Warblade 118 It looks like the pushrod has some sort of pin that fits into that slot on the camshaft lobe- the cam can then both push and pull the rod, the rocker looks like its connected via a motorcycle type removable chain link to the valve stem. Cool idea if it can be retro-fitted. Otherwise why not go OHC?
trewjohn2001 1 year ago
So how does it push the valve up?
KenMacMillan 1 year ago
What kind of power increase & will it work on a 289 with a set of twisted wedge heads?
KenMacMillan 1 year ago
I cant figure out how exactly this works, wtf?
The1965Ghost 1 year ago
Can you explan the pushrod and camshaft in more detail? Does a normal camshaft also works?
smvuy 1 year ago
This is crap..
FeelTehBa55 1 year ago
@FeelTehBa55 Thank you for that well thought out and highly intelligent response. Can you please forward a link to the system that you have been able to develop over the past few years. I think the rest of the world would benefit from your great insights into automotive technology.
DECUIR ENGINE TECHNOLOGIES
EmpEntTV 1 year ago 5
@EmpEntTV so is that a yes then
kissmyass1980 9 months ago
well tbh i think its not a viable concept for a road car, but would be more effective on a 4 valves a cylinder motor, by using 2 cams right beside the crankshaft and connect by pushrods that way (on a inline engine) also there does seem to be a bit of valve tap too
mushere2k9 1 year ago
@Polybun you are such a childish prick, you really should grow up
mushere2k9 1 year ago
@mushere2k9 We completely agree!
Decuir Engine Techologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
Looks like some beautiful machine work. Do the cams push a tab on the side of the valve. Is this a workaround on the Ducati valve system? Looks like a pair of parallel round stock or rollers, the little cam is on the bottom side of the head?
EdVidz 1 year ago
I'm sure this works but the machining to do this can't be done cheaply or quickly. You'll never see it in a production car.
Polybun 1 year ago
@Polybun Who claimed it was for a production car? we have primarily targeted its use for racing applications and possible use for street cars.
Decuir Engine Techologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV It's simply not strong enough for racing. Only if lifter engaged on both sides of the cam lobe would it be strong enough. You might get one or two races out of it but applying both tension and compression loads off the centerline of the lifter like that, on what is really a very small amount of material is going to result in it failing from fatigue in pretty short order. Of course making it grab on center, IE two grooves on each lobe, it probably won't fit in engine.
Polybun 1 year ago
How would you know that? how many engine/valvetrain systems have you developed in the last couple of years. You can't claim something does not work if you have not done the same type of testing and development that we have put in over the last 20 years. Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV So how many race hours have you been able to get from this set up?
acme663ryo 1 year ago
v8 means nothing, anyone can make loads of horse power with a v8 because of the large displacement most of them have, it takes more skill to make a 2.0 inline 4 to get it to run big hp boys, this could also bee improved, it also looks like that the rod on the cam was going to come off, nice desin though, and i also think it would be too hard for a twin cam engine
mushere2k9 1 year ago
@mushere2k9 Not really, you just shorten up the stroke, rev the nuts off of it and boost the living hell out of it. Why would having two cams make this any more difficult to work? It would not, if it works on one it'll work on more you fucking idiot. Learn how to logic retard.
Polybun 1 year ago
@Polybun hahaha retard good that, if only you came up with something new fucktard and also i know what im talking about mate, ive worked on cars long enough that a twin cam motor is better, 4 valves are better that 2 PROVEN next time ill ram those word up you aft end if you call me retard again
mushere2k9 1 year ago
@mushere2k9 I never said they were not. Learn how to use logic retard.
Polybun 1 year ago
@mushere2k9 You might want to rethink that 4 vs 2 idea. The LT-5 Corvette engine was 4 valve and never made the power that the LS-7 2 valve engine is turning out. Not saying that the 4 valve motor couldn't be made to produce more power but when you look at the success of the Corvette endurance race cars today they more than hold their own against 4 valve competition.
f6john 1 year ago
@f6john oh yes, you are right SOME 2 valve engines are more powerful but i think with that engine it was more of a case of the whole engine itself was desinged better, and 2 valves are more oftenly used in racing car engines as there isnt as much friction too (because it only runs one camshaft) but i think smaller I4 engines benifit more with a twin cam 16 valve setup, like the rover K series engines
mushere2k9 1 year ago
I really like the idea, but I'm looking more for an electronic-solenoid solution to eliminate the camshaft as well.... That's when you'll really start to save some wasted power....
terryeffinp 1 year ago 3
@terryeffinp Not really. With solenoids you still need valve springs. Less you go with air solenoids, then you need an on board supply of high pressure gas like nitrogen or such to attain the force needed to actuate them at high rpm. Learn some physics.
Polybun 1 year ago
@Polybun No need for the smart remark, just giving an idea...
terryeffinp 1 year ago
@Polybun You could use dual action electric solenoids. No springs necessary there but the plunger still is a heavy object and would be no match for a dual action pneumatic solenoid system. The car could have a pneumatic compressor operated by the engines exhaust system or a belt drive. At lower engine speeds lower pneumatic pressure would work while at higher RPMS the engine would develop the higher pressures required to operate the valves. Self regulating! Now add an accumulator.
1971SuperLead 10 months ago
@1971SuperLead
That's something to look into... Pneumatically controlled and assisted valvetrain.
corotor12345 10 months ago
only problem i see with this design is that if you were to 'tighten" the valve locking nuts too far (reducing the amount of travel from the valve face to the valve seat) would end up with the valvetrain literally trying to pull the entire valve through the head. obviously this could be avoided with some attention to clearance but as the engine warms up and parts contract and expand, those clearances are going to change, resulting in either a poor seal or unnecessary strain
markdem 1 year ago
@markdem Exactly! And the poor seal would quickly burn the valves causing even more power loss.
1971SuperLead 10 months ago
Ducati already did it years ago .
Look for "desmo" engine ...
nalinux 1 year ago
Hey, cool design. I was just wondering about the oiling of the valvetrain. How is the oil delivered to the rockers and other components in this system? Is it still delivered via the lifter and pushrod or are there other ways that allow oil flow? Also what provisions are there to keep this in tune and how frequently would one have to tune this system? Thanks
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cadentavaricegrtrj 1 year ago
I cant help but look at this and think about ducatis desmodromic valvetrain. Same principles, though its a jump to make this in a pushrod engine.
BikerRussell 1 year ago
I can see potential in something like this when used in competition, but for overall longevity, I see too much potential for failure. The main thing I see is the increased amount of friction surfaces, and the possibility of stretch and shear would appear to be exponentially increased also. Ultimately, I think The overhead cam is the way to go. Be warned...NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies are indeed looking at the possibility of overhead cam engines in the near future..5-7 years tops.
YogiTheFatGuy 1 year ago
Remindes Me of Ducati's Desmo system. Just it use just a single cam or is the closing portion a different cam mounted piggyback somewhere? I couldn't tell from the video.
conekiller13 1 year ago
Fascinanting. When I think of how much resistance a traditional valvetrain exerts, this seems like it would free up loads of power. If you used an electric water pump and fuel pump, the only resistance (besides compression and the tranny) would be the alternator, oil pump, and tiny amount from the distrbutor. Power steering too, I guess, but this is a pretty cool concept. Looks a little too expensive for the street though. I hope it's selling well in the race community. Well done, Alex Decuir.
gblpst81 1 year ago
@gblpst81 It was something I read a really long time ago so don’t hold me to this exact number, but I remember reading a typical V8 valve train can take as much as 75HP just to operate. On a 350HP engine that’s huge. I’d bet the HP drain would be even higher on high performance engines. BTW I wouldn’t take what that eurotrash douchebag says seriously. He thinks ohc is something new that instantly makes an engine superior? That’s laughable.
Warblade118 1 year ago
@Warblade118 The thing is with this system is that it wears out faster and needs lots of adjustment in short periods. Look at Ducati motorcyles, their valvetrains needs adjustments quite often especially compared with a Yamaha. An LS3, what adjustments??? Plus a V-8 doesn't sound like a lawnmower with a burnt muffler?
speedfreak698 1 year ago
@speedfreak698 Uh…thanks? That didn’t answer any of my questions…
Warblade118 1 year ago
@speedfreak698 Ducati Multistrada, valve adjustment after 24000 kilometers!(keep up to date please)
Mcguppy 1 year ago