The Stone Roses - Manchester Hacienda 1985

[OfficeKitten2012]

Wow. Amazing drummer.

[Granttouchell]

ian wasn't too bad, it takes a while to strengthen your voice up, these are early days for a reason :P

[IntelligentMan1987]

This guy's a fucking amazing drummer - never seen anyone play like that!

[philriley427]

First time I saw the Stone Roses was at the sound check of their first major gig in their home town (Manchester University Nov '85) and I was blown away with what I saw and heard. Reni was amazing and made me (a drummer) feel very inadequate.

[bouli123]

What's the song playing ???

[blurry67]

Is there more of this? :D

[Waterfall64]

@blurry67 There are clips similar to these from the warehouse parties they often threw in the early days. They are even on an ultra-rare bootleg DVD if you can find it!

Type "The Stone Roses Heart on the Staves" or "I wanna be adored (Live 1985)" into YouTube search and they'll pop up.

[balthazaa2001]

Reni is a superb, gifted drummer no doubt. But as for the best ever I dont know.... check out Joe Morello if you wanna see a true master class of technique... different style/era/musical direction... but simply awesome... listen without prejudice.

[Waterfall64]

@balthazaa2001 Just watched some of the clips. Joe Morello is clearly really good, similar to the drummers of the time. Lots of groove and swing like Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich. Wonderful music and times.

I think the thing with Reni is how stunningly accomplished he is. His versatility and range is remarkable. There's a clip on youtube of isolated drums for Love Spreads which captures his groove.

[TheStoses]

LOL, I love how Reni's just sitting there in his underwear LMFAO.

[Reni1919]

sexy reni and his sticks... best drummer ever!

[EVERTONIC]

re. bonzo..its not about what you can do...its when and how you use it, only trainspotters will get on bonzos bass drum, reni made you listen to drum melody and craft effortlessly, you cant teach that stuff...its natural music uninfected by the industry, thats what touches us

[EVERTONIC]

reni.....what a musician!! not just drummer,his vocals are better than browns,apparently according to mani he could lay a killer bassline and guitar....he is the roses, hes surrounded by people who see music as a career, thats why hes disappeared, respect to you reni, for being aware of the ghouls who want to prosper on your talent

[kcirdrab]

Is it me or is Brown doing a Morrissey impersonation here?

[josueamericanistarv]

@kcirdrab I thought the same thing

[kcirdrab]

@josueamericanistarv yep thought so.

Never heard Brown pay any tribute to the Smiths as an influence musically, but I suppose that wouldn't have fitted the image & attitude the developed later on, much like ditiching his grammer school boy background

[larryoloai]

0:19 ANIMAL!!!! who's the man...

[lanoviadepetedoherty]

very young :)

[backpackcamera]

Who says it because of drugs? there's a great doco on youtube about the roses you should watch it, it's more to do with being exploited by their management and labels than drugs - unless you know something I don't! Also poster below I have a couple of bootleg white labels of the roses from 85-86 that have lots of stuff that was never released.

[MrThreshold2009]

he makes it look so easy, eyes shut and everything... effortless. anyone who reckons bonham's the best ever is way off... reni for a start is miles better. a step above.

[ucla4eva]

Fuckin' Reni...what an amazing drummer. Kinda don't blame him for quitting. Never got the recognition for his contribution to the music.

[mikejewel1]

Bonham,

Baker,

Moon,

Reni.

[Waterfall64]

Bonham's fantastic but totally overrated. Some of the live stuff I've heard is just dreadful. He's not a patch on Reni.

Reni,

Moon,

Liebezeit (of Can),

Baker,

Bonham.

[bonzo]

@Waterfall64 BONHAM OVERRATED??? wat in the sweet fuck are u on mate!! moon, baker, reni are all fuckin geniuses but bonham was the all time best! none of those 3 drummers could do some of the things bonham could do, whether it be fills or wat he did with the bass pedal, yeah some live stuff isnt as good but all the rest had drunkin/stoned gigs aswell! come on

[Waterfall64]

@bonzo I'll be the first to admit Bonham was fantastically good, but he is overrated. Reni's drumming on the Second Coming just proves his versatility and range - Bonham could never do Daybreak or Love Spreads. And I think Blackpool Live proves it hands down, with Elephant Stone alone.

[aero105]

@bonzo id say that bonzo is the all rounder, and has set the standard, but reni has got more flair.

[aero105]

@Waterfall64 pretty spot on mate.

[tedsafuckinkid]

what song is in this video? never erd it before and i have like their entire discography :/ was it a cover or just some shit they never released

[morroccostoneroses]

All I Want from Garage Flower.

[Waterfall64]

I watched this clip about 7 years ago but only just realised at 34 seconds Reni flips his stick up and catches it before slamming off his crash cymbol into his ride. That's impossible...

[misterfrias]

Great eyes!!! I never noticed that & I must have watched this clip 1,000 times!!!

[Bandit72]

I think he actually breaks a stick or it comes out of his hand and he picks another one up. Which is probably wedged in one of the toms. Still impressive though!

[carlos7217]

Infact you can compare the Roses with the Who because one of there 1st gig's they played was a anti heroin gig put on by Pete Townsend,Townsend himself said the Roses reminded him of the Who,but most of all Reni who he said drummed like Kieth Moon and he even insisted on playing a Who song with him.

[skrason]

Sorry I'm a little late but, carlos, you are 100% correct. Plus, anyone should be able to hear the similarities between Reni and Keith. :)

[vincentinogitash]

oh god what the fuck.

YOU CAN'T COMPARE THE WHO AND THE STONE ROSES.

[osheal]

early simple minds esque..

[Snotra]

Echo & the bunnymen.

[shamanofsexy90]

nutter drummingthat was he was going fckin mental this wasnt the gig pete townshend was at by any chance where after he sais reni was the best drummer he had seen since keith moon

[Lillbimbo]

Reni coul dplay all instruments better then anyother member. Does not say anything about the others, just that reni is insane.

[b00mhauer]

Reni pisses all over Keith Moon. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing about playing the drums.

[HowardIrwin]

''pisses all over Keith Moon'' ? Have you been certified ? It's clear YOU know nothing about playing the drums.

[b00mhauer]

Moon's forte was the constant fast double stroke rolls around the toms and all that. He was a creative and furious drummer, but also sloppy. Reni, on the other hand, had natural groove and rhythm, unique creativity (check his drumming on Waterfall, Elephant Stone etc.), plus pure skills and technique to back it up. The fact is, Reni is a one-off, and it's a huge shame he isn't as known as all the canonized greats like Bonham, Moon etc. Reni is even better, and I'm not kidding. The guy's a legend

[kingshahine]

exactly. moon didn't have the technical ability of reni.

i think everyone knew that reni was the prodigy of the band, a musical genious

he came up with fools gold

[menamestom]

Love them both myself, both defined a generation with their beats and should both be respected for being in and laying down the foundations for 2 great bands.

Quick count on Wikipedia shows Moon credited for 27 Albums including live ones and Reni 2, so perhaps that be taken into consideration before anybody dismisses Moon as 'sloppy'. Most people would be sloppy after a bottle of gin and a horse tranquiliser!

They're both legends IMO....

[Waterfall64]

True, but that was Moon's fault. No one forced him to drink! He just got worse and worse, sadly. A great talent ruined by excess.

Reni, technically, has done 4 albums. Plus dozens of bootlegs. Garage Flower and The Complete Stone Roses being official. CSR is a collection of singles from around '87 and '88. Not to mention the band's career and momentum being ruined by the court case kicking off between them and Silvertone - right at their peak. Something The Who didn't have to deal with.

[menamestom]

Yeah, guess that's true, just a pity Reni didn't go on to do more after the Roses, he could have joined any band he wanted. He would only have been early 30's around then, still in his peak. I wonder what had of been if there had been no court case?

Was being flippant about moon but it is a sad story....

[coach3majic]

PRE iAN bROWN SINGING LESSONS

[davej41x]

Are you sure he ever had any???!!! ; )

[mattiwillo]

to Hux2000: how can Reni be the strongest member of the band?!!!

John Squire is a hell of a guitaris, he was easily the main man in the Roses

[wungabunga]

Nope. Reni was identified as the star from the beginning, I know I was there, in manchester. I also play the guitar and Squire - as good as he is - is no Johnny Marr, then again who is? :)

[menamestom]

I prefer Squire myself but I'm sure Marr was a big influence to him. 'The Stone Roses' is better than any Smiths album by a Manchester mile, in every way including the guitar.....

[wungabunga]

Don't be ridiculous.

[spencranor]

omg...in my book Ian Brown is THE daddy with god like status....but white trousers,a silk shirt and greased back hair! Iknow we've all got skeletons in t'cupboard but come on!! I must erase this from my mind it may fuck up everthing i've ever based my life upon?

[oasis408]

LOL yeah... I guess that was the look back then

[spangla777]

Thats off the john lennon saying about ringo

[billdollarbill]

I was at this gig :) blimey never thought i'd see this again - i remember Ian's white pants and his silk shirt - there was only about 100 people there - he jumped off th estage at on epoint with his long mic lead and was prowling around the dance floor - i was up on the balcony and i remeber him just looking up at us and staring - another thing i remember is john's jackson pollock painted gretsch guitar and thinking these guys have supreme self confidence to go spoiling an old guitar like that !

[designerclothes]

When you think of the shite Simon Cowel churns out - Gareth Gates, Will Young, Leona Lewis - The S - Roses are REAL MUSIC

[crispywesty]

reni was amazing, easily the most underated drummer of all time. most kids nowdays are claiming travis barker is the best drummer ever, they have no idea, traivs barker isnt even good enough to sniff the sweat of reni's pure mancunian bollocks!

[oasis408]

SO TRUE. How can anyone compare Travis Barker to Reni!!!

[mancsakacarl]

@crispywesty that comment made me fookin piss mate :) lol

[johnnie160]

haha this was the year i was born. the hacienda is an appartment block now. you'd never know what went on there all them years ago. my old fella got in many a scrap in that place. haha

[whitelabeldemo]

ALL I NEED IS ALL I WANT!

[twattybollock]

His voice was never the best!

What happened to Reni after they split? Great on the sticks - probably the strongest member of the band.

[hux2000]

"What happened to Reni after they split? Great on the sticks - probably the strongest member of the band."

He more or less disappeared from the scene. Real pity because he's a great drummer with a natural gift, and when it came to singing, well, as the old joke goes, "Ian Brown isn't the best singer in the world - he's not even the best singer in The Stone Roses." ;)

[bridgetjanejones]

Too right. I remember listening to Reni doing the soundcheck at ally pally after the band had left, just him playing the drums and singing his harmony from Waterfall. Just a handful of people wandering around. It was magical.

[therecruit]

is reni playin in just a pair of pants lol

[TaylorMayed07]

Shit voice live, then, and still a shit voice live, now....but hell his music is fantastic

[SimonB198207]

well, he wasn't '..too young or pretty and sure as hell [couldn't] sing...'

i was three in '85... just think if i'd been born fifteen years earlier... and i'd be 41 right now.

still, it'd be worth IT...

Hacienda around '86 - '87, maybe Ibiza around '87 - '89... chuffin' magnificant.

[stoneroadster]

have it bad boys punk or wat

[neomod]

they definitely had the more regenerating rythmic session of the late 80's early 90's

[dezaufc]

cheers nice footage not seen that before got the song

[swifty137]

its interesting to see this footage, but in all honesty its gash compared to the 'official' first album.

[ThaFourFour]

Ooh no remember misery dictionary ? and tell me ?

[mancunian1234]

Yeah ten Kieth Moons in one definately.Fantastic footage,Stone roses the best band ever in Manchester although they`d say fuck off only 1 great album so what?Puffs Smiths Morrisey with his blousy like shirts&daffodil waving they`re the big revival now don`t know why, the Happy Mondays can`t be arsed talking about.

[gadgie3]

RENI. nuff said

[LennonLove]

reni was some drummer.up there with moon.his drummin on second coming is fuckin amazin

[STEVEFINNERTY]

fucking top........nuff said

[mancunian1234]

Rare footage.He looks a bit like a Duran Duran singer there does Ian!Brilliant clip of Manchesters finest.

[monochromerainbow77]

did anyone else watching nick a bit of the hycienda when it closed??

[robsancharlie]

no mate, nicked a bit of stuff when it was still open though..

[monochromerainbow77]

lol:) too true

[zoethestripeydog]

I am pretty sure that this was filmed by me at the hacienda. It was one of the last gigs I filmed there when I was with Ikon fcl.

There was another, which I think was their first gig, but I can't remember the name of the venue

[Waterfall64]

Excellent! Very well done! Shame I can't find the rest of this, been looking for bootlegs in Manchester. Check out the Finland videos here on YouTube, brilliant footage, too.

[mancsakacarl]

i thought this wasnt the hac??

[Waterfall64]

Not actually sure these days! Probably isn't actually, must be a Warehouse gig. Type in "Stone Roses Finland" into the search bar for some brilliant live clips.

[mancsakacarl]

i think it was there second manc gig..who cares it rocks!! ha ha(i got the same gig on vcr tape tuckt away sum where)cheers man

[tampere2006]

seems every single Hacienda concert was videod by Ikon films... hes vanished years ago but a few have surfaced....

[dangrmouse]

good to see some old footage - yeh reni very talented drummer,a sad demise! ....yeh doesnt look like the hacienda does it!

[machieaveli]

Beach, that's not sad at all, better to be knowledeable about one of Britain's greatest bands than something like Wham. : ).

[UKQuinny]

It doesnt look much like the Hacienda to me from what i can tell.

Anybody else got any old clips, those really were the days!

[Beach67Gaston]

If this clip is from a Manchester gig then I think it's from their first gig @ The International in May 1985, Ian did wander through the v. small audience that night. I'm 99.9% certain it's not @ the Hac, if I remember rightly they only played there once and Mani was in the band then. How sad am I for even knowing this?

[jgpp63]

they played Hac twice, once at the "Monday Club" in '85 and a few years later for a TV recording for BBC programme "Snub" i think it was called, was at bth gigs ,still got flyer for first one, sad

[billdollarbill]

I'm 99% sure i was at this gig - it was around August 1985 - andy couzens and pete garner were still with the band at that point - i'm sure it was at The Hacienda - i remember Ian jumping off the stage into the crowd with his long mic lead shouting into peoples faces - he was more like a cross between johnny rotten and morrissey in those days - great days - reni is possibly the best drummer ever - his band the rub were awful - he was playing guitar... no way ...you need that guy behind the kit

[Waterfall64]

Reni "ten Keith Moons in one"! Bonham? Moon? Grohl... Daybreak alone proves he's in another league. The classic Roses is the Psychedelic sound, which they always denied... I still love them.

[makky123]

someone please upload 'so young'

[dave1999artwork]

they sound more like the smiths there than the roses circa 89/90'

[bobmorrice]

are you sure this is from the hacienda?

think it could be from a warehouse party

nice shorts reni

[Waterfall64]

When I found it it was marked as a Hacienda gig. Wouldn't surprise me if it was one of their Warehouse parties, though. '85 was their peak with those.

They are lovely shorts.

[Waterfall64]

Yeah, the tape exists out there. Bootleg, though. Hard to find. Check some of the sites, they have loads of information.

[dugsie]

have this on the garage flower bootleg,its early roses,but u can hear glimpses of the genius to come

[ThaFourFour]

this is the only tune I remember of it ! mine was a white label with paint splashed on a bit of it.

[hoani76]

reni reni reni. best bit is the diaper he's wearing! id love to see the rest of this, do you have any more? th website doesn have i tup anymore.

[zozzie]

Reni is a genius!

[Waterfall64]

Yeah a real shame he's not doing stuff. A drummer as good as that could be in any band he wanted.

[jumpingjack7877]

brilliant- renis drumming is mega- shame we havent seen more of him- thanks for that ive never seen it before

[Waterfall64]

Apologies, the video goes out of sync with the sound for some reason. The clip I have is fine. Any suggestions to fix that?