ΑΝΤΑΡΣΥΑ μέρος 4

[21koukos21]

alla den mporo na dexto oti olos autos o kosmos pou katevhke sto dromo to dekemvrh htan ypokinoumenos kai oti o dekemvrhs htan apla provokatsia..symfono apolyta oti den prepei na minoume sto mpatsoi gourounia dolofonoi...apla den katalavaino giati mou ta les ola auta..mallon apantas me to dedomeno oti eimai naritis kati pou den exei omos kamia sxesh me thn pragmathkothta...

[SampanajovicR21]

Den 3erw ti eisai. Pantws an 8es na sou apantisw epi tis ousias, ari8mise ta zitimata pou 8eleis na rwtiseis kai steilta se msgs!

[SampanajovicR21]

Makari na mas kanate kritiki apo mar3istiki-leninistiki skopia! Alla kati tetoio oute 8elelte oute mporeite.

[21koukos21]

se emena ta apntas ola auta??naritis??ego??apo pou kai os pou re file??apo auta pou grafo sou moiazo gia naritis??prospathisa ego n s kano mathimata leninismou?diafono oti to 1968 to pragma mphke sth sosth seira...symfono apolyta me auto pou les oti prepei na anadyx8ei h ta3ikothta ton provlhmaton ths neolaias..den eipa kati anti8eto..diafono omos oti ta gegonota tou dekemvrh htan provokatsia..symfonoi tis perissoteres fores ta epeisodia eite einai ypokinoumena eite oxi leitourgoun provokatorika

[Vagathens]

Se eyxaristw 21koukos21 gia thn psyxraimia sou kai ta logika epixeireimata sou opws toylaxiston ta diabazw edw mesa...dystyxws exw dikio gia to Stalin...einai dynaton kommoynisths kai na dexete en zwi poly na pairnei to onoma tou? Na epibaloun oi axiwmatikoi stous stratiwtes tou E.S. na ormoun sthn maxh fwnazontas gia ton Stalin...auta oute o Tsaros den ta ekane

[21koukos21]

Den 8a mpo sti diadikasia na krino ton stalin san an8ropo kai den ksero an auta pou anafereis ysxioun h einai apla laspi (opos kai polla alla gia ton stalin)..oute kamia kayla exo mazi tou oute tipota..apla prospa8o xoris na epireazomai apo thn propaganda tou systhmatos na vro ti phge strava kai apethxe to egxeirhma sth sovietikh enosh..kati pou 8a dosei th dynatothta thn epomenh fora na mhn ginoun ta idia la8h..etsi k allios o stalin paei teleiose..to zhthma einai sto tora k sto meta..

[21koukos21]

apla ma8enontas apo ta la8h tou parel8ontos 8a eisai pio etoimos na antimetopiseis kapoies katastaseis sto mellon..tipota parapano..to kyriarxo zhthma gia mena omos den einai o stalin alla to giati oi koummounistikes antilipseis den exoun pleon apoixhsh ston kosmo genikos alla kai sygekrimena ston kosmo tou kinhmatos...einai provlhma kata th gnomh mou ayto..na sai kala file vag (an kai vazelos...xaxaxa)

[knitis100]

@21koukos21  etsi p tus exei kanei to sistima

[knitis100]

@Vagathens fwnazan ya to ti presvevei o stalin ( ean kai i prosopolatreia itan ena 8ema ekini tin epoxi )... oi aftaparnisi kai o adifasistikos agwnas edikse kati adi8eto apo ena ''ka8estos prosopolatreias kai tromokratias''.. kaneis dn 8a polemage toso hrwika ya ena toso kako sistima..... ( o tsaros ekane xerotera) dn diafwnw omos..ipirxe prosopolatreia..kalo 8a htan na exeis mia geniki apopsi panw stn epoxi stalin..

[Vagathens]

@knitis100 προσπαθώ να έχω διάβασα πρόσφατα και το βιβλό του Μάρτενς "μια άλλη άποψη για τον Στάλιν" αλλά δεν ήταν τίποτα άλλο παρά ένα ατέλειωτο λιβάνισμα. Το ότι πολέμησαν με αυταπάρνηση είναι σχετικό...και οι ναζί πολέμησαν μέχρι τον τελευταίο για τον Χίτλερ, είχαν πιστέψει σε αυτόν, τους είχαν γεμίσει το μυαλό με την βρώμικη ιδεολογία του...Μην ξεχνάς ότι οι σοβιετικοί στρατιώτες έτρεχαν φωνάζοντας "για τον στάλιν"...ανδεν το έλεγαν υπήρχαν αξιωματικοί της NVKD πίσω τους...

[SampanajovicR21]

den vgazoume misos apenanti se kanenan. Alla den mporoume na asxoloumaste sinexeia me 8emata pou exoume apantisei xiliades fores kai den lete na katalavete.

[SampanajovicR21]

To Dekemvri den egine KAMIA e3egersi. Ta episodeia ipokinountai apo to skliro pirina provokatorwn parakratikwn pou oudemia sxesi exoun me to au8ormito twn ma8itwn. Emeis den fovomaste to au8ormito. Kai gi'auto to logo 8eloume na anadei3oume tin ta3ikotita sti neolaia twn provlimatwn tis kai na agwnistei me antiimperialistika antimonopwliaka sin8imata kai oxi na meinei sto mpatsoi gourounia dolofonoi! Apo ton oportounismo de3io kai aristero prepei na sw8oune prwta apo ola!

[SampanajovicR21]

To KKE apo to 1956 mexri to 1968 eixe la8emeni oportonoustiki grammi sta anwtera ka8odigitika tou organa, e3aitias tis diaspasis tou apo tin paranomia se Ellada kai e3w. Auto dimiourgise provlimata organwtika pou li8ikan to 1968 oristika. Alla twra 8a katsw na sou analisw to kommatiko organopolitiko provlima tou KKE? Eisai sovaros? Diavase na deis pws 8etoume to zitima!

[SampanajovicR21]

O Lenin exei grapsei ena olokliro vivliaraki pou legetai "gia to proletariako komma neou tipou" kai ena allo pou legatai "o aristerismos paidiki arrwstia tou kommounismou" pou profanws den exete anoi3ei pote. Diavaste kai 8a katalavaite pou sas evaze o Lenin kai poia grammi taktikis stirize. Alla 8a katalavaite?

[SampanajovicR21]

Triton, sixainomai ma8imata leninismou apo an8rwpous pou me tin taktiki tous kai mono exoun diastrevlwsei 8emeliakes idees tou Leninismou. Oso anafora to mar3ismo, leei na koinwnikopoih8oun ta mesa paragwgis. Pou leei na koinwnikopoih8oun ta kerdi?

[SampanajovicR21]

Deuteron. Na to xesw to foititiko kinima apo mono tou. E3w apo to ergatiko einai anikano gia ri3i-anatropi. Siga mi rixnoume kivernisoules kai 2-3 nomous. Den exoume tetoious stoxous emeis. Alla twra enas naritis, pou na katalavei oti o ergatis einai to epanastatiko ypokeimeno, kai OXI o foititis au8eraita, alla sigekrimena o foititis paidi tis ergatikis oikogeneias mazi me ton ergati!

[SampanajovicR21]

Apo ti dekaetia tou '80 kanate arnitiki douleia mesa sto komma, apa3iwnate ka8e kommatiko organo, ka8e sillogikotita, ftiaxnate fra3ies panta sigkalimenoi apo tous reformistes pou argotera 8elan na dialisoun to sinepes kommounistiko kinima, alla kai meta to '89 otan pirate dromo apo to komma, sinexizetai na eiste i enoxlitiki miga tou sinepous ta3ikou kinimatos, mia mikroastiki di8en "iperepanastatikotita" pou prepei na 3erizw8ei k n xtipi8ei kata kratos gia na paei mprosta to kinima (to swsto)

[Vagathens]

Kala, kala, kala, etsi sas eipan stin KNE giati pws tha dikaiologousan oti diegrapsan tin misi KNE to 89 kai diorisan, nai diorisan tin dikia tous

[Vagathens]

Poy tha giortasete thn 1oy Ioylioy thn epeteio ths Tzanetakeiadas....ths kybernhsaras sas

[SampanajovicR21]

Milate gia katalipseis diarkeias, alla pazareuete me tous megaloka8idigates enar3eis kai li3eis kinitopoihsewn. Lete diladi as ta 3isoume ena mina kai meta rixnoume kai mia e3etastiki tis plakas na min xasoume to e3amino. Mexri ekei ftanoun oi agwnes sas gia mia kaliteri paideia?

[Vagathens]

Axa milaei i aristera tis exetastikhs...edw gelane h PKS elege stin arxi twn kinitopoihsewn tou 2006 na min kanoume katalipseis gia na min xathei to examino. Eutyxws poy ta diavazei ayta kai kapoios allos kosmos kai autos xereis

[SampanajovicR21]

As mas peite sto sindikalistiko kinima me tin 3epoulimeni GSEE poses epanaproslipseis ergazomenwn petixate, pou kai pote kataferate pagwma mis8wn se ergazomenous kai se poious kladous, posoi salonatoi sindikalistes sas exoun apolu8ei gia sindikalistiki drasi. Aniparktoi sta swmateia kai stous sindikalistikous agwnes pame parakatw:

[Vagathens]

Nai e sou leei kati to swmateio Misthwtwn Texnikwn kai ti agwnes exei kanei? Na sou thymisw oti se kapoia swmateia ypo ton elegxo sas ypograpsate symbaseis xamiloteres kai apo tin xepoulimenh GSEE? Alla ti na peis apo epaggelmatika stelexi, pou exete ston syndikalistiiko xwro

[SampanajovicR21]

Episis na sou 8umisw oti gia sosialismo sto katastatiko tou milaei kai to PASOK. Auto apo mono tou de leei tipota! Pou8ena de milane gia allagi ta3is stin e3ousia, oute oi synaspismenoi...oute ki eseis!

[Vagathens]

Nai e pouthena????????? Mallon to programma tou KKE diabases kai mperdeutikes.

KALA PWS MPOREIS KAI GRAFEIS TOSA MEGALA PSEMATA XEDIANTROPA?

[SampanajovicR21]

Psemata lete eseis tosa xronia kai gineste to "aristero allo8i" tis antikommounistikis isterias pou tsakizei ta dikaiwmata tou ergazomenou, kai xtipaei to sinepes ergatiko-laiko kinima pou 8elei na anatrepsei ton kapitalismo!

[Vagathens]

Ase mas re Sampanajovic pleon den peithete oute tous anagnwstes tou Rizospasti me auta pou lete

[SampanajovicR21]

Epanastates xwris aitia, i me moni aitia na pesei i n.d na anevei i... pasokara na paroun sta 30 tous kamia 8esoula sto dimosio...den peithoume! Oute pseutokoultouriarides akadimaikous tempelxanades pou den patane sto ma8ima, apergoune alla plironontai kanonikotata pei8oume, oute di8en pseutooikologous tou e8elontismou apo tin Ekali! Pei8oume omws ergates, oikodomous, mikromesaia agrotia, EBE, Ypallilous!

[Vagathens]

Nai sigoura to eidame, eidika sta mikroafentika (EBE) poy exoun allaxei ta fwta stous ergazomenous tous (xeiroteres synthikes apo polyentikes) exete megali perasi

[21koukos21]

file vagathens kala sta leei o knitis gia to kato i kivernysh ton dolofonon pou legate to dekemvrh kai apoprosanatolizatai ton kosmo tou kinhmatos..episis epeidi parakolouthisa ligo ta comment sou ase re file to stalin ysixo..oute fasistas na sai..a kai oson afora tis euroekloges nomizo kai esas alla k to kke sas ek8etei to oti katevenete stis ekloges symfona me tin (sosti) apopsi sas gia thn ee..apoxh apo thn eurokalpes re!!!!!!!

[SampanajovicR21]

kala

[SampanajovicR21]

ελάτε με το ΚΚΕ και αφήστε τα καραγκιολιζίκια άμα θέλετε να έρθει ο σοσιαλισμός!

[Vagathens]

Mas brizeis xydaia kathe ligo kai ligaki kai twra mas les na eltoyme sto KKE...giati gia ton "anyparkto" sosialismo poy gnwrisame

[SampanajovicR21]

O ka8enas exei dikaiwma na anagnwrisei ta politika tou la8i kai na mpei stin organwmeni pali me antiimperialistikou antimonopwliakous stoxous. Dikaiwma tou episis, na ka8etai na aunanizetai mia zwi kai na min agwnizetai me stoxo tin alli e3ousia, na "agwnizetai" gia kati asafes pou den vgainei pera apo ta oria tou kapitalistikou sistimatos, e3antlwntas oli tou tin mikroastiki "iperepanastatikotita" sta organa tis astikis e3ousias, kai oxi stin idia tin astiki e3ousia me stoxo tin anatropi tis!

[Vagathens]

Kai o kathenas exei to dikaiwma na baptisei sosialismo ena katapiestiko systhma , me epikentro mia autarxiki grafeiokratia, me basiko oplo tin proswpolatria, ton eunoxismo ton mazwn, tin tautisi kratous, kommatos, syndikaton, stratou etc.

Gia to poia einai i mikroastiki politiki fenete

[SampanajovicR21]

An eixes diavasei estw kai kakoproaireta tin apofasi gia to sosialismo, 8a katalavaines oti oute proswpolatres eimaste, oute agiopoioume kanena proswpo. Epistimonika kai me8odika kanoume austiri kritiki oli ti periodo oikodomisis tou sosialismou,oxi gia kanena allo logo, alla gia to sosialismo pou 8a r8ei ton 21o aiwna, se opoia xwra ki an er8ei, na einai poli kaliteros, kai na min ginoun idia la8i.Pote den eipame oti o sosialismos pou gnwrisame itan teleios. Alla den ta midenizoume ola!

[Vagathens]

Oute emeis ta midenizoume ola, alla den kryboyme kai ton elefanta katw apo to xalaki...giat o epistimonika kai methodika amfibalw para poly, afoy kathe apofasi prosarmozete sti grammi toy kommatos kai den einai proion ereynas. Afou apokatastisate ton STALIN kai episima pisteyw oti ilthe i wra na anagoreusete se mega marxistes tous Zntanof kai Beria...

[SampanajovicR21]

An nomizeis oti ka8otan to komma kai ekane ereuna 18 xronia gia na e3idanikeusei to Stalin, i tou Xroutswf, i to Brejniev i den 3erw ki egw ti, eisai va8eia nixtwmenos. E3onixistika, panta simfwna me tis arxes tou mar3ismou-leninismou, meletisame pws anaptix8ikan oi sosialistikes sxeseis paragwgis, pws egine i kollektivopoihsh, pou esfale, pws ta sxedia odigisan stin xalarwsi tou kentrikou sxediasmou kai klp. Vevaia, i meleti 8a sinexistei ki allo. Einai upo8esi olwn twn sinepws KK pagkosmiws!

[SampanajovicR21]

Apo to na ka8omaste kai na vrizoume, xrisimopoiontas ta "epixeirimata" tou imperialismou pou den apodeixtikan otan anoi3an ta dokoumenta tou KKSE kai den mporoun pleon na ta stiri3oun, protimisame na kanoume epistimoniki kritiki sto STALIN kai ta PRAGMATIKA tou la8i. Giati ekane kai la8i, an8rwpos itane kai itane ipo8esi olou tou KKSE oi apofaseis otan GG itan o stalin. Apla eseis kanete kritiki sto Stalin mono kai mono gia na apa3iwsete tin ta3iki pali kai tin poreia pros ti laiki e3ousia!

[21koukos21]

poly kalo to sxolio sou file an kai xreiasthke na perasoun xronia gia na apokatasthsei to kke th mnhmh tou stalin se 5 mono grammes....kai osn afora th stash tou kke k to 2006-07 me to foithtiko kinhma alla kyrios to dekemvrh asta..asta..sygxarhtiria sas moirazane o karatzaferis k o adonis..

[SampanajovicR21]

Nai gi'auto o Karatzaferis mazi me to pasok sinexeia xtipane katw apo ti zwni to KKE kai gkebelizoune. Ase mas re groupovie!

[21koukos21]

symfono gia ton antikoumounismo tou pasok k tou laos..alla den mou apantas epi ths ousias s'ayto pou egrapsa..eidika gia to stalin mouga..oson afora to groupovie profanos anaferesai sto group tis original...se enimerono an kai den yparxei logos na to kano oti oute stin original eimai oute kan exo paei pote sto ghpedo..thn kafrila mou kano apla sto pc..sou e8esa mesa se pente grammes 1-2 sovara 8ematakia gia to kke k epi tis ousias den mou apanthses..apla me eironeutikes..

[Vagathens]

Koukos...ase o Sampanajovic den einai gia koybenta...se paralirhma diarkeias mhn tyxon kai toy thixei kaneis to KKE. Gia ton Stalin pisteyw oti eimai mesa synebale ta megista sth dysfimish toy marxismoy-kommoynismoy

[21koukos21]

diafono gia ton stalin mazi sou alla den einai kouventa pou mporei na ginei me comment sto youtube...den peirazei...ektimo omos oti se antithesh me ton sampanajovic mou apanthses me poly pio kosmio tropo..

[SampanajovicR21]

simfwnw oti den mporei na ginei kouventa sto youtube oxi mono gia to stalin alla kai gia otidipote. Pantws prin diafwnsete me to Stalin koita3te kai tin diki mas ekdoxi!

[21koukos21]

diafono gia ton stalin me ton vagathens oxi me sena sampa..pantos sta alla pou sou egrapsa synexizeis na mhn apantas..an dn 8eleis min to kaneis..etsi k allios ontos kouventa den ginetai etsi....

[SampanajovicR21]

sou apantisa me sintomia alla de ginetai na sou ta analyw apolyta den exei xwro to youtube. Sto finale mporeis na diavaseis kai tis 8eseis mas na sou lu8oun oi apories. Pantws an exeis sigekrimenes apories steiltes mou se message kai 8a prospa8isw na sou apantisw!An kai nomizw oti apantisa sta panta!

[SampanajovicR21]

poio sovaro 8ema. To pou mas dinei sigxaritiria to laos kai den 3erw kai egw poios? Sta arxidia mas ti kanoune. H grammi palis mas einai i moni antiimperialistiki antimonopwliaki! Ainte diavaste kanena keimeno tou Lenin na katalavaite ti 8a pei ta3iki pali!Ki oso gia to nick mou, einai ena palio tou aderfou mou kai variemai na to alla3w!

[21koukos21]

katarxhn arakse ligo...mporeis na mou peis pou htan to kke stous agones ton foithton?mallon den mporeis..mporeis na mou peis pou htan to kke to dekemvrh?mallon pali den mporeis..ti stash kratouse to kke apo to 53 h kalytera apo to 56 mexri poly prosfata gia to stalin mporeis na mou peis..kai pali den mporeis..sou ethesa to zhthma tis symmetoxeis tou kke stis euroekloges kai den apanthses mallon epeidh pali den mporouses h den htheles..

[21koukos21]

a kai kati allo..kaneis den sou zhthse ta resta gia to nick sou...den yparxei logos na paei h antiparathesh se prosopiko epipedo..kanenas etsi k allios den einai apolyta sostos kommounistis..prospathoume..ak­oma k diko sou na htan den to parekshgo..oloi oi anthropoi exoun adynamies kai mia apo autes einai kai h mpala..ti na kano oso k an den to thelo me epireazoun me auta pou me vomvardizoun kathimerina..oso megalono prospatho na skeftomai pio va8ia...xaxaxa

[21koukos21]

kati teleutaio..gia to sxolio gia to lenin k thn taksikh palh..asto file se kanan allon..pou ksereis dhladh poso diavazo..k n s enimeroso oti kommounistis dn ginesai MONO m t diavasma alla k m tous agones s alla k tn kathimerinh sou stash apenanti stous ypoloipous anthropous..gia mena aytos 8a prepei na einai k enas apo tous protarxhkous stoxous ths aristeras na mas kanei prota apo ola anthropous..esy vgazeis misos mexri k se mena pou ta idia pragmata me sena thelo gia ton kosmo alla kano

[21koukos21]

...kritikh sth stash tou kke se diafora zhthmata..

[Vagathens]

Exonistika...meletisate...epis­timonika...18 xronia...ma poion douleueis pragmatika ta pisteueis auta pou grafeis?

[SampanajovicR21]

otan ma8ete na ekfrazeste me 8esi kai oxi me arnisi gia to "ti einai sosialismos", elate na sizitisoume! Pros to paron to "enas allos kosmos einai efiktos" sto flou, den sas kanei na sas parei o laos kai o ergatis sta sovara, para mono oi di8en "psagmenoi" volemenoi mikroastoi me "aristero parel8on".

[Vagathens]

Posa liga xereis diabase kai kati allo ektos apo Rizospasti gia na deis ti theseis mas....gia tin wra anazitise "epistimonika" pws katereysan o Tsaouseskou kai o Giarouzelski ...Den mas eipes se poio ergostasio mas piran kynigi sthn Typoekdotiki mipws?

[SampanajovicR21]

Nai exw diavasei, na koinwnikopoih8oun ta kerdi, kai kati gia tous metanastes kai to perivallon apokommena apo nomous kai ti fisi tou imperialistikou systimatos kai tis anisometrias tou. Oloklirwtikos kapitalismos, dld neofileleu8erismos, dld mia diaxeirisi tou sustimatos. Les kai i apeleu8erwsi tis agoras den akolou8ei tis kratikopoihseis kai to antistrofo. Epanastatiko ipokeimeno einai o...POLITHS ki oxi o ergatis se simmaxia me tis skorpies ekmetalleuomenes alla talanteuomenes mazes!

[Vagathens]

Oloklirwtkos kapitalismos= diaxeirisi tou systimatos?

Oti theleis katalabaineis...mallon oti sas emathan stin KNE...To problima einai pws stin USSR ta mesa kratikopoithikan kai emeinan gia panta stin exousia tou kratous (ousiastika se mia grafeiokratiki kasta pou leitoyrgouse me orous kapitalistikis epixeirisis) alla auta siga min sas ta poun stin KNE